Back in 2019, Natalie Wexler joined Susan Lambert as the very first guest on Science of Reading: The Podcast. Now—more than three years and three million downloads later—Science of Reading: The Podcast welcomes Natalie back on the show. She and Susan discuss what she's seen in the 3+ years since releasing her groundbreaking book The Knowledge Gap and delve into the importance of managing cognitive load, building long-term memory, writing, and the broader science of literacy. Lastly, Natalie shares what she hopes to see in the education headlines in the not-so-distant future.

Show notes:

• Our first episode with Natalie Wexler, The Knowledge Gap
• The Knowledge Gap: The Hidden Cause of America's Broken Education System—And How to Fix It , by Natalie Wexler
• Bloom's Taxonomy
• One Sentence At A Time, by Judith C. Hochman and Natalie Wexler
• The Writing Revolution website
• Knowledge Matters Campaign
• Statement from Knowledge Matters Campaign

Quotes:
“I'm a little worried that Science of Reading, narrowly defined, isn’t encompassing everything we need to do. And people are getting the idea that if they just add more phonics to what they're already doing, they'll have solved the problem.” —Natalie Wexler

“Even if we do a great job on that foundational skills side of things, if we are not also changing current standard practice with regard to comprehension. If we don't start building kids' academic knowledge and vocabulary early, we are gonna find, at higher grade levels, kids are gonna be able to decode complex text, but they may not be able to understand it.” —Natalie Wexler

“There are serious problems with how we have been approaching decoding instruction. There are equally serious problems with how we've been approaching comprehension instruction, and that's the message that I think is not getting out.” —Natalie Wexler

“You can't get to the top without going through the bottom. You can't think critically about a topic that you don't have understanding or knowledge of, it's just not going to work.” —Natalie Wexler

“Here's the catch about writing: It's hugely important. It can help cement knowledge and long-term memory, and deepen knowledge.” —Natalie Wexler

“Even if you as a teacher have doubts about the curriculum. It's really important to give it your best shot and approach it with enthusiasm.” —Natalie Wexler

“It's great to focus attention on problems with phonics instruction, but we also need to bring attention to problems with comprehension instruction and the failure to build a kind of knowledge that fuels comprehension.” —Natalie Wexler

“What has amazed me is how many teachers and educators have nevertheless really embraced this message. And I think that really speaks to how much they care about their students. Change is hard, but they are undertaking it daily.” —Natalie Wexler 

Todd Collins went from education outsider to literacy expert when he joined his local school board after a career in finance and technology. When Todd saw the literacy assessment number, his data-driven mind said "this isn't good enough" and got to work. Todd went on to organize the California Reading Coalition, a movement of educators, advocates, parents, and policymakers committed to improving reading instruction and outcomes for California's six million students. In this episode, he joins Susan Lambert to discuss what it really takes to make effective change; the importance of clear, ambitious goals and strong leadership in schools; and which numbers within literacy data are most important to focus on.

Show notes: 

• California Reading Coalition 
• California Reading Report Card
• California Reading Coalition on Twitter
• California Reading Coalition on Facebook

Quotes:
“We have to help everybody kind of collectively align our voices and help people who wanna find out more about this, find out more about it.” —Todd Collins

“If the pieces of the system aren't all working together, then you just don't achieve sustained change.” —Todd Collins

“Leaders have a critical function. They communicate to everybody in a state or in an organization what's important. You don't have to tell 'em what to do, but you need to tell 'em what the goal is.” —Todd Collins

“Teachers aren't the problem. Teachers are the solution.” —Todd Collins

“We simply can't call ourselves a great school district unless we get great results for our most challenged and least resourced students.” —Todd Collins

“It's not a new thing to be concerned about the low achievement among low-income students but it's a relatively new thing to do something about it.” —Todd Collins

While working with students, one educator came to a realization that put her on a path to fascinating research in the Science of Reading. In this episode, Jasmine Rogers—manager and coach with the In Schools program at the DC Reading Clinic and an early literacy intervention lead at American University—shares her story and delves into her research on dialects and best practices for structured literacy instruction. She discusses Black language and how it connects with the language comprehension strand of Scarborough's Reading Rope. Jasmine also offers recommendations for classroom teachers who have bidialectal students.

Show notes:

• DC Reading Clinic
• S1-22: Success using the Science of Reading: Mary Clayman
• Jasmine Rogers - Linkedin 
• S4-07: Linguistic Variety and Dialects: Difference, not error: Julie Washington
• “Teaching Reading to African American Children,” by Julie A. Washington and Mark S. Seidenberg
• “Linguistic Justice: Black Language, Literacy, Identity, and Pedagogy,” by April Baker-Bell
• “An Informed Lens on African American English,” by Megan-Brette Hamilton
• “Multilingualism and Codeswitching in Education,” by Nkonko M. Kamwangamalu

Quotes:

“As a teacher, a Black woman, who speaks Black English, who knows the language, who is very well versed in structured literacy, if I overlooked this, if that caught me off guard a little bit, then that means that could potentially catch someone else off guard.” —Jasmine Rogers

“With language comprehension, and considering in your native language, there may be a word that doesn’t necessarily match up with a language that you are learning in the classroom. So you have to then use your incredible cognitive skills that speak two completely different codes, comprehend what is happening, and then tie that back into, of course, the Rope to become a fluent reader.” —Jasmine Rogers

“I consider Black English to be a very complex and complicated language…but I think typically in society it has been viewed very negatively. You can see in the media and in research where people have talked about it and used negative connotations. And I think those beliefs from society have seeped into the classroom.” —Jasmine Rogers

“A strength of children that are bidialectal is the similar strength to students that are bilingual—they have an ability to take language that is different from theirs and translate it. That right there is an asset.” —Jasmine Rogers

“The languages that we speak and bring from home also are not wrong. They’re simply different. And we’re gonna work together so that we take what we know differently and come together with a common language so that we’re communicating with one another.” —Jasmine Rogers

“We have got to give our students access to this code so that they can become literate and run our society one day.” —Jasmine Rogers

Throughout this season, we've explored different tiers of the education system. In this episode, we look at the role higher education plays in equipping teachers with the right training and tools. Our guest Donna Hejtmanek, a retired special education teacher and reading specialist, shares her disappointing first-hand experience of going back to school at the age of 58—an experience that made her realize many universities weren't training educators in the Science of Reading. Donna tells Susan the story of how she came to create the incredibly popular Facebook group Science of Reading–What I Should Have Learned in College, and discusses what it will take to change higher education.

Additional resources:

• Facebook group: Science of Reading—What I Should Have Learned in College
• Stephanie Stollar’s group Stronger Together: The Alliance for Reading Science in Higher Education
• Facebook group: Training Reading Rocket Scientists
• Facebook group: Science of Reading for Administrators—What Teachers Want You to Know
• Find Donna on Twitter.
• Find Donna on LinkedIn.

Quotes:

“The door's been cracked. It has to happen and it has to happen by having relationships with people. You just can’t walk in and just say, you know, this is the way it needs to be done. It's a slow process.” —Donna Hejtmanek

“If you're trained in a certain way, you're only exposing yourself to those researchers doing those things and that type of information. And so you don't know other sources of information of other researchers and what else might be going on.” —Donna Hejtmanek

“Learning the Science of Reading is not a, ‘You get it in one day.’ It's not like that. It's a journey and it takes time to assimilate everything you read and then turning that into a practice and shifting the thinking of millions of people.” —Donna Hejtmanek

“You get better and better at it the longer you do it. So if we just stay stagnant and are closed-minded to new things that are out there, then we can't grow.” —Donna Hejtmanek

Announcing the 2023 Science of Reading Star Awards!
The Science of Reading Star Awards are back to honor and celebrate another group of outstanding educators. Do you know someone who has empowered their students with the Science of Reading? Whether that someone is you or a colleague, nominate them to be the next star!

With Utah's recent passing of Senate Bill 127, a sweeping piece of literacy legislation, many are turning to the state as a model of what statewide implementation of the Science of Reading can look like. In this episode, Dr. Jennifer Throndsen, Director of Teaching and Learning at Utah State Board of Education, joins Susan to tell the story of how Senate Bill 127 came to be and how they are continuing to make changes to schools across Utah. Together, they discuss what the bill included, the opportunities and challenges the bill provides when it comes to implementation, and advice for other states looking to enact literacy legislation. Throndsen also discusses her experience as a teacher and her journey with the Science of Reading.

Additional resources:

• Utah’s S.B. 127 Early Literacy Outcomes Improvement
• Western States Take Aim at Early Literacy During 2022 Legislative Sessions (The Council of State Governments West)

Quotes:

"Our students are the state's greatest asset, and we need to invest in them with all the energy and knowledge we have to do our best to serve them with urgency, compassion, and high expectations." —Jennifer Throndsen

"If kids can't read, that really keeps them from accessing other content areas like science, social studies, and being able to engage in story problems in mathematics." —Jennifer Throndsen

"Being able to read is today's civil right's movement." —Jennifer Throndsen

"With requirements comes resistance. No matter how great the opportunity is." —Jennifer Throndsen

In this episode, we take you behind the scenes of the smash hit foundational reading series The Reading League’s “Reading Buddies,” aimed at students in pre-K through third grade. Susan is joined by Andrea Dotto and Brendan Malafronte—artists, performers, and co-founders of children's story hour and media company Dusty & Dott—as well as "Reading Buddies" executive producer Toni Ann Walsh. Together, the four of them discuss how the show started and how Andrea and Brendan got up to speed on the Science of Reading, and share tips for educators and caregivers on how to make reading instruction fun for kids.

Additional resources:

• YouTube Channel
• Website: https://www.thereadingleague.org/reading-buddies/
• Email: [email protected] 
• Facebook
• Instagram
• The Reading League website
• Dusty and Dott website

Quotes:
“Our mission is to educate educators on the Science of Reading because we believe that if educators have that knowledge, they can transform kids' lives.”  —Toni Ann Walsh

“Little by little you can learn to read, you can do something hard and we can do it together.” —Andrea Dotto

“As a storyteller, I can go on a stage and tell a story and know, ‘Oh, that song made somebody connect to a memory,’ or ‘These two hours, they got to escape whatever is bothering them at home.’ That escapism is special and magical. But with reading buddies you get escapism and then you also get impact.” —Andrea Dotto

“God bless teachers. They're incredible. And we are here to help you continue to be incredible. We're here to give you tools to excite your students and just complement everything that you are doing.” —Brendan Malafronte

Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson, Deputy Chief of Curriculum and Instruction in the School District of Philadelphia, has played an integral role leading and sustaining a transition to the Science of Reading in the Philadelphia public school district. But making such a change across a large district is difficult. In this episode, Dr. Francis-Thompson (who goes by Dr. Ny) talks with Susan about Philadelphia’s experience. She also talks about her own experience learning about the Science of Reading, and offers tips to other district-level leaders and wisdom about providing all students with the liberation that comes through reading and leading—all with love at the center.

Additional Resources:

• Dr. Ny’s LinkedIn profile
• Focused implementation: Doing less to do more with Dr. Doug Reeves—Podcast episode
• 2021 The Philadelphia Citizen story: “A Better Way to Teach Reading” 
• 2021 Chalkbeat Philadelphia story: “Just 32% of Philadelphia third graders read on grade level. Freedom Schools Literacy Academy could be a model to change that.”
• A 2017 Accountability Review Council report on Philadelphia: “Promoting the Science of Reading Instruction in Philadelphia Public Elementary Schools: Early Implementation Lessons”
• Video of Dr. Ny speaking: “Equity in Curriculum”
• Dr. Ny’s 2017 dissertation: “Beyond the Pink Sand: Case Studies of Experiences of Multi-Tier System of Supports Implementation in the Bermuda Public School System”

Quotes:
“I have never met a student that did not want to learn how to read or a family that did not understand the importance of their children knowing how to read.” 
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“We have to listen to our young people in order to be able to move with that sense of urgency.” 
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“Liberation is connected to our students being literate… In order for our students to truly be free, we [need to] understand the power that reading has in their future.”
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“We have to remember who we are serving and why we are serving them.” 
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“A lot of times when you’re in a large system and you’re leading a large system, it can become very robotic-like a machine. You do this, you get this, you do this, you get this. But there’s a human aspect that if you have not considered that human aspect, you could very well end up in the same place that you’re trying to move away from.”
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“And while it’s a five-year strategic plan, we do have a sense of urgency and I’m sure within that there are gonna be benchmarks and hundred-day plans and smaller plans to make sure that we are actually doubling down again on the things that truly matter, that are gonna lead, outcomes for our students here in the school district.”
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

“If we’re only in the business of educating some students, then what are we really doing? It’s important to look at the students that are not benefitting and really identifying the things that work for that population of students rather than continuing with practices that aren’t meeting the needs of the students we’re serving.” 
—Dr. Nyshawana Francis-Thompson

As the former chief academic officer at the Louisiana Department of Education, Rebecca Kockler made it her mission to empower districts to select higher quality materials. This involved a thorough and rigorous curriculum review, and allowing teachers to choose the program they wanted once they knew exactly what they were getting. This work built Kockler’s case for focusing on quality curricula as a vital part of student success. Using Kockler’s work in Louisiana as a case study, this episode shows why state governments should focus on logistics, procurement, and equipping educators with the information they need to make the best decision for their students.

Additional Resources:

• Louisiana Department of Education’s instructional materials review 
• Education Next: Louisiana Threads the Needle on Ed Reform
• Bio on the the Advanced Education Research and Development Fund (AERDF) website
• US News: A Compelling Case for Curriculum

Quotes:

“It was really our teachers who led so much of the charge to say, ‘No, this is what we want. We believe kids should be held to high expectations. We believe they're capable, we believe they deserve it.’”
– Rebecca Kockler, Program Director of Reading Reimagined within AERDF, CEO and Founder of Illuminate Literacy, and former Assistant Superintendent of Academics at the Louisiana Department of Education

Mimi Stewart is a state senator from New Mexico and previously worked as a public school elementary special education teacher for thirty years, with an expertise in reading literacy. Her unique background has turned into a passion for and a history of championing educational policies as a legislator. This episode focuses on how state government and state legislation can work to improve literacy instruction. She takes us through the process of creating a piece of literacy legislation, New Mexico Senate Bill 398, which passed in 2019. Sen. Stewart also shares the latest on that bill and also talks about what she’s now focusing on from her place in the legislature—like changing that way we teach teachers from a university level.

Additional Resources:

• New Mexico Senate Bill 398
• Mimi Stewart - Twitter
• People for Mimi Stewart - Facebook Page
• Mimi Stewart - Website
• American Educator, Spring/Summer 1998
• National Conference of State Legislatures’ “No Time To Lose” Report
• The May Center for Learning - Website

Quote:

“Think about how many young kids in school right now we are not reaching and that have that feeling that they're dumb and they can't get it. I had one kid say to me, Ms. Stewart, I think there's just a secret code. And I said to him, You are right. There is a secret code. It's called the alphabetic code, and you can learn that easily.” 
– Mimi Stewart, New Mexico State Senator, representing New Mexico’s District 17

Equal parts educational leader, educator, and life-long learner of reading science, Mitchell Brookins has leveraged his passion and dedication to affect change in the lives of the students and teachers he works with, as well as the many educators he has inspired online. In this episode, he opens up about the emotional journey he took—from realizing everything he’d been doing wasn’t working and that he’d never actually learned how to teach kids to read, to seeking out reading research and encountering the Science of Reading—a path that brought unparalleled transformation and success to his schools. Mitchell talks about how he is still learning  and keeping students at the forefront of what he does every day, ending on a powerful story of a student who changed his life forever.

Additional Resources:

• The National Reading Panel Report: Practical Advice for Teachers
• Mitchell Brookins - Twitter
• Scanning Pens webinar: Learning to Read & How to Support Older Learners
• Free Poster: Why are you thankful for literacy?

Quotes:

“My calling is so that children can one day stand on their own without scaffolds, that children will one day reap the benefits that literacy is liberty, that children will one day be able to teach someone else the power that only literacy can bring.” – Mitchell Brookins