In the premiere episode of Season 8 of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by guests Reid Smith and Pamela Snow to lay the groundwork for a season entirely centered on knowledge and knowledge-building. Reid and Pamela—of the SOLAR Lab at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia—recently co-authored (along with many others) a review of the literature on background knowledge and literacy. In this discussion, they share what they learned, including some surprising takeaways. This episode examines the  complexity of building background knowledge, the important role it plays in literacy, and the reasons we’ve decided to spend a whole season exploring it!

Show notes:

• Read: "The Role of Background Knowledge in Reading Comprehension: A critical review"
• Read: "Elementary Teachers' Perspectives on Teaching Reading Comprehension"
• Blog: The Snow Report 
• Website: The SOLAR Lab

Quotes:
“We decided we'd embark on a knowledge-rich curriculum where we would make deliberate decisions about what it is that we would like our students to know about the world in which we live and thinking carefully about the coherence and sequencing of that knowledge.”  —Reid Smith

“This idea of having a coherent curriculum that systematically builds knowledge and skills over time is something that we think is really important for our kids.” —Reid Smith

“There's a group of students who, even when they know they have the background knowledge that's required to make inferences in a text, they find that really difficult, that they have difficulty identifying the pieces of knowledge that they actually have that are going to enable them to make inferences with a particular text.” —Reid Smith

“Explicit teaching is an important way of building accurate background knowledge, building schema about a topic that, of course, is an important social equity lever for us to pull because not all students have equal opportunities.” —Pamela Snow

“Background knowledge has a particularly strong effect for those students who don't have other compensatory mechanisms to be able to pick up the ball when they don't have that background knowledge.” —Reid Smith

“The long-term memory makes no distinction between information that's correct or incorrect…so, of course, the incorrect knowledge would impact on our understanding." —Reid Smith

“I think we respect teacher autonomy when we give them the knowledge that they need about how the English writing system works, right across the Reading Rope, and how the English language works, right across the Reading Rope.” —Pamela Snow

In this episode, in honor of Dyslexia Awareness Month, we highlight Kareem Weaver's daughter Margaret "Margo" and nephew Elijah—both of whom learned they had dyslexia later in their young lives. After many struggles in school, Margo was diagnosed with dyslexia in high school. Meanwhile, Elijah was diagnosed with dyslexia only while he was incarcerated. Margo and Elijah discuss the impact of their diagnoses. Meanwhile, Kareem reflects on their stories and shares lessons learned for families and caregivers. Margo and Elijah also share their advice for educators and other young people about types of dyslexia.

Show notes:

• Listen: Kareem Weaver’s first interview with Susan: What it takes to be a literacy education changemaker.
• Listen: Kareem Weaver’s most recent podcast appearance: The Right to Read: live from Plain Talk
• Much more on dyslexia: Listen to S7E7 with Dr. Tim Odegard and S7E9 with Dr. Sally Shaywitz
• Documentary: The Right to Read 
• Website: FULCRUM (Full and Complete Reading is a Universal Mandate) 
• Read: How dyslexia diagnosis changed a Bay Area high school softball player’s life

Quotes:

"It made me realize I wasn't the problem; something was wrong with me. I just had a little bump in the road that was making it just a little bit harder for me." —Margo Weaver

"It shouldn't take having to go to jail to get what you need to learn how to read. That's the bottom of it." —Kareem Weaver

"Just try to take a deep breath in and ask questions." —Elijah Valencia

"Even when they were trying to help me ... it's like they were expecting me to be learning at everybody else's pace." —Elijah Valencia

"Real talk as a parent: We got to own up to stuff." —Kareem Weaver

"When a kid can't read and life gets a hold of you, it's a life cycle. Next thing you know, you find yourself in situatins that you never would have imagined." —Kareem Weaver

"Most parents are overwhelmed and they need an ally in the building." —Kareem Weaver

"I just wish somebody kind of sat with me and told me that I wasn't stupid and that I was okay." —Margo Weaver

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Reid Lyon, one of the leading experts in reading research. After years working for and with the highest levels of the U.S. government, Dr. Lyon stepped away from working on reading research. However, in May 2023, he released his "Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read." Picking up where we left off last episode, Dr. Lyon continues to expand on what we know about how children learn—and explains how much of this information was known two decades ago when he was testifying before Congress. He also goes into what he sees in the current Science of Reading landscape, and what he hopes for the future, and how both of those things led to the creation of his "Ten Maxims."

Show notes:

• Listen to: Embracing the complexity of learning to read (Part 1)
• Dr. Reid Lyon: “Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read”
• Keith Rayner’s research: “Eye movements in reading and information processing: 20 years of research”
• Marilyn Adams: Beginning to Read
• Susan Brady:  Phonological Processes in Literacy 
• Emily Hanford: “Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong”

Quotes:
“The Science of Reading is cumulative and we’re learning all kinds of new things.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“A more realistic look at reading is in fact to understand the complexity, but not be intimidated by it.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“When you’re working on something that’s so critical to a life—to a child’s life—belief systems don’t cut it. Evidence cuts it.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

Dr. Reid Lyon is one of the leading experts in reading research. After years working for and with the highest levels of the U.S. government, Dr. Lyon stepped away from his reading research. But in May 2023, Dr. Lyon released his "Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read." And of course Susan jumped at the chance to invite him onto the podcast. In a wide-reaching interview, Dr. Lyon traces his life story from the Vietnam War to the National Institute of Health. He also offers an expansive overview of what we know about teaching reading, how children learn—including a discussion of whole language vs. phonics—and his response to educators wondering what reading actually is and what methodology of teaching students to read is most effective.

Be on the lookout for Part 2 of our interview with Dr. Reid Lyon, being released next week.

Show notes:

• Dr. Reid Lyon: “Ten Maxims: What We've Learned So Far About How Children Learn to Read”
• Keith Rayner’s research: “Eye movements in reading and information processing: 20 years of research”
• Marilyn Adams: Beginning to Read
• Susan Brady:  Phonological Processes in Literacy 
• Emily Hanford: “Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong”

Quotes:

“Phonics—that is, looking at letters, letter patterns, learning how to bring sound to associate to those letters—is absolutely essential, non-negotiable. It has to be learned. But it in no way is sufficient to be able to comprehend, which is the goal of reading.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“Reading is a complex behavior subserved by multiple systems in the brain that integrate and inform each other.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“It’s a symphony of neural activity that undergirds this very complex behavior of just learning how to read. So when people boil reading down into phonics or whole language, it’s just a false characterization.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“People somehow conflated this natural ability of oral language to develop—just expose kids, just shower them with language—to reading. And reading is by no means natural. It has to be taught. It does not reside in the brain systems.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

“We’re hampered by the teacher-knowledge issue. That’s not a teacher’s fault. That’s a college of education system that is bereft of responsibility. It operates on philosophical foundations. It operates on belief systems. It’s very politicized. It looks at reading as a right, which it is. But it doesn’t look at the instruction of reading as methodology—strategies, direct and comprehensive programs that can help most kids learn to read.” —Dr. Reid Lyon

With a background as a classroom teacher, a master's in educational neuroscience, and a doctorate in special education, Dr. Neena Saha has seen all facets of education. In her work, she noticed a gap in the research-to-practice workflow for early literacy and dedicated herself to streamlining the process of finding and disseminating the best educational research for educators. Together, Susan Lambert and Neena discuss the need for reading researchers to work together and collaborate in a more focused and concerted group effort, the challenges of implementation, and how educators can best keep up with research that often feels overwhelming.

Show notes:

• Listen: Our recent episode with Claude Goldenberg
• Read: Neena’s monthly reading research update
• Watch: Neena’s July video about a Bayesian network meta-analysis
• Watch: Celebrating the Legacy of Dr. Bud Rose
• Website: Center for Research Use in Education
• Read: “Survey of Evidence in Education for Schools Descriptive Report”
• Read: “The Book of Why: The New Science of Cause and Effect” by Judea Pearl
• Read: Reading Research Recap—If you want to start receiving monthly notifications for this series, please register or sign in to your Lexile & Quantile Hub account and join the Reading Research mailing list.

Quotes:

"What I did was focus really on dissemination, right? Getting rid of that hurdle of, you know, there's so many journals out there." —Dr. Neena Saha

"You have to look at the full body, you're like cherry picking stuff if you're going to social media and the person with the biggest megaphone wins or whoever has the most interesting way of presenting it." —Dr. Neena Saha

"We need a more concerted effort. There needs to be a bunch of researchers that come together and hash it out. It can't just be single ones here and there." —Dr. Neena Saha

"Teachers or educators out there right now, when you're feeling overwhelmed and you can't figure out how to find the evidence, or some evidence, guess what? We're affirming for you that there's no easy way to do it...this is more of a systemic problem." —Dr. Neena Saha

"It's not enough to do the science. You have to make sure it gets out there." —Dr. Neena Saha

Growing up, Malcolm Mitchell considered reading and academics as a bare minimum means to get to play football. While his journey with football led to playing in the NFL, the work he is most proud of today is his literacy work and his own journey of learning to love reading, advocating for literacy, and writing children's books. In this conversation with Susan Lambert at the 2023 Plain Talk Conference—where Malcolm was the keynote speaker—Malcolm dives into his own process of teaching himself to become a proficient reader at the age of 19. Through the lens of his own struggles and triumphs, Malcolm shares a powerful testimony to the importance of cultural connection, access to books, community building, and understanding the true "why" behind reading to get students motivated to read.

Show notes:

• Website: Share The Magic Foundation (ReadWithMalcolm.com)
• Watch: Malcolm’s 2019 TEDxUGA talk
• Read with Malcolm's Instagram
• Read with Malcolm's Twitter
• Read with Malcolm's LinkedIn

Quotes:

"I saw that [reading] as the thing that would allow me to become the best version of myself." —Malcolm Mitchell

"Reading is the most self empowering tool a person could possess." —Malcolm Mitchell

"I knew that I needed to surround myself with a group of readers to help foster an even greater love or deeper connection." —Malcolm Mitchell

"It's not whether people want to do something or not. It's whether they understand the value of it." —Malcolm Mitchell

"Our challenge is to create an atmosphere that hopefully makes students willing to learn. And that opens the door for a teacher to do what they do best." –Malcolm Mitchell

"High school is probably the most confusing place because the things that you need to do most to position yourself for a fruitful life are the things that are ridiculed" —Malcolm Mitchell

Here to continue our discussion on dyslexia from earlier episodes in the season is an all-time leading expert on the topic: Dr. Sally Shaywitz, Co-founder and Co-director of the Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity. This literacy legend shares how she came to study dyslexia, the story of her seminal Connecticut Longitudinal Study, and all she's learned from her years of dyslexia research. Shaywitz will cover some of the biggest myths about dyslexia and also explain the "sea of strengths" possessed by people with dyslexia.

Show notes:

• Book: Overcoming Dyslexia
• Coursera: Overcoming Dyslexia https://www.coursera.org/learn/dyslexia
• New York Times story: The Couple Who Helped Decode Dyslexia
• Yale Center for Dyslexia: website

Quotes:

"It's so important to screen, to learn early that you may be at risk and then to follow up with more testing that may confirm you're dyslexic. When you have something, but it doesn't have a name, it leads to anxiety." —Dr. Sally Shaywitz

"There are so many people who are slow readers who are brilliant thinkers. That's our 'sea of strengths' model." —Dr. Sally Shaywitz

"We are so genetically driven to speak ... but we're not genetically driven to read." —Dr. Sally Shaywitz

When it comes to literacy education and cross-domain learning, it’s critical to understand the relationship between reading and writing. In this episode, Susan talks to Steve Graham all about writing—and how it can be used to strengthen literacy. Graham served as chair of the What Works Clearinghouse Practice Guides on elementary and secondary writing, and is the current Regents and Warner Professor at Arizona State University. Together, he and Susan discuss ways to support student writing, hindrances to writing development, the importance of teaching handwriting skills, and why writing is essential to any literacy program.

Show Notes: 

• What Works Clearinghouse: “Teaching Elementary School Students To Be Effective Writers”
• Meta-analysis: “The Effects of Writing on Learning in Science, Social Studies, and Mathematics: A Meta-Analysis”
• Book: Handbook of Writing Research
• Arizona State University: Profile

Quotes:
“Our development as writers might be something that you can think of as open-ended…it can expand ever outward.” —Steve Graham

“Handwriting gets better, spelling gets better…students become better at constructing sentences in their writing. They tend to generate more content, and the quality of their writing may improve as well.” —Steve Graham

“Any kid who has trouble with handwriting [or] spelling usually dislikes writing much more than their peers that do not have those difficulties, and they typically don't produce as much. And what they produce usually is just not as coherent or well connected.” —Steve Graham

“What we see with exceptional teachers is they have their kids write. And at least through grades one to six, when students write, the quality of their writing gets better and their reading comprehension gets better.” —Steve Graham

“Kids need to write, they need to write for a variety of purposes. And they also need to write for real reasons, for real audiences.” —Steve Graham

“We want to create a community in which kids can thrive as writers and take risks.” —Steve Graham

“We want to make sure that we're using reading and writing for the functional purposes of learning, because they make a huge difference. They're really the basic building blocks around which we acquire and understand information.” —Steve Graham

When we surveyed listeners, more than half of respondents said they wanted more conversations about teaching students with dyslexia! With that in mind, in this episode Susan is joined by Dr. Tim Odegard from Middle Tennessee State University. Odegard is a professor of psychology and holds the Katherine Davis Murfree Chair of Excellence in Dyslexic Studies. As someone with dyslexia himself, Odegard brings a unique perspective to this discussion where they debunk the idea of "the gift of dyslexia," discuss neurodiversity and talk about what needs to be done to change the system.

Show notes:

• Dr. Tim Odegard’s Twitter: @OdegardTim
• Tennessee Center for the Study and Treatment of Dyslexia
• E-books from the Center for Dyslexia at Middle Tennessee State University

Quotes:

“It's not easy, but life isn't easy and it's not fair and you don't get to write the rules. But how you play the game and how you persist is what defines you as a human being.” —Tim Odegard

“Sure. You can turn lemons into lemonade, but all they're saying ism that it's a gift because you find a way to persevere, and any hardship could be that way, but when you're in the thick of it and you're actually living it, and you're just trying to get the ability to do your work and not feel like you're stupid. That's not a gift.” —Tim Odegard

“We need to change the dialogue and say, this is about what's right for all kids. And this isn't about just dyslexia, that’s the byproduct of doing what's right for all children.” —Tim Odegard

From reading street signs and menus to checking the weather, and using a ruler, there are so many examples of how a student's math and literacy adventure continues beyond the classroom. That's why we're sharing another bonus episode—this time from our friends at Math Teacher Lounge, to show the connection between math and children's literature.

In this episode, Mathematizing Children's Literature authors Allison Hintz and Antony Smith join Math Teacher Lounge hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer to discuss what would happen if we were to approach children's literature, and life, through a math lens, and how we can apply those techniques to classroom teaching.

Show notes:

• Dr. Hintz’s Twitter: @allisonhintz124
• Dr. Smith’s Twitter: @smithant  
• Dr. Hintz and Dr. Smith’s Instagram: @MathematizeChildrensLiterature

Quotes:

“We started asking ourselves what would happen if we considered any story a chance to engage as mathematical sensemakers.” —Allison Hintz

“We think of stories as mirrors or windows. We really want to be mindful of story selection, of whose stories are told and whose stories are heard.”—Allison Hintz 

“Modeling what I, as a teacher, notice or wonder about helps set the expectation for what kind of response would be encouraged.” —Antony Smith