How many times have you pulled up to a location, seen fire blowing out of the second-story windows, and thought, "There is no way anyone is alive in there?" Today’s guest argues that firefighters have been making that call far too early. And it’s often based on outdated campaigns and fear rather than real-world data.

You took an oath to protect life. It is the driving force behind every decision you make when you pull up to a working fire. But that drive has to be balanced with reality.

The question isn't just "is the building searchable?" The harder question is: "Is it survivable?"

Joining me is Sean Duffy, a firefighter on a mission to redefine the boundary between searchable space and survivable space. Sean is a vocal advocate for the Firefighter Rescue Survey, using hard data to prove that victims can—and do—survive in structures with over 75% fire involvement.

Sean is a highly respected instructor and the voice behind the presentation "Searchable vs. Survivable: Educated Decision Making." He’s here to discuss how to move beyond guessing and start using data, fire behavior, and building construction to make the toughest call on the fireground.

He’s a firefighter for the City of Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he’s been for almost 20 years.

I last had him on the show talking about the reasons why 2-in/2-out is a concept whose time has passed.