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TikTok’s connection to the Chinese government has been a Washington talking point since the Trump administration, but earlier this month lawmakers in the House introduced a bill requiring the app’s parent company to either divest the company into American hands—or be banned.

Guest: Emily Baker-White, technology reporter and senior writer at Forbes.

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This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss President Joe Biden’s State of the Union address and Special Counsel Robert Hur’s congressional testimony; crime and punishment with the Wren Collective’s Jessica Brand; and Congress’s move to ban the Chinese government from TikTok. Join us for Political Gabfest Live in Washington, D.C. on March 27! Tickets are on sale now. Planning to attend? Submit a Listener Chatter to [email protected] and you might be picked to chatter live. 

Here are some notes and references from this week’s show:

C-SPAN: 2024 State of the Union Address and Former Special Counsel Hur Testifies on Biden Classified Documents Report, Part 1and Part 2

House Committee on the Judiciary: Recorded Interview: Robert Hur, President Biden Transcript, Date of Interview: October 8, and Date of Interview: October 9

Kaitlan Collins for CNN: Fmr. Mar-a-Lago employee who helped move classified docs speaks with CNN

Adam Serwer for The Atlantic: How Hur Misled the Country on Biden’s Memory

Jack Goldsmith in The New York Times: Jack Smith and Robert Hur Are the Latest Examples of a Failed Institution

Erica Pandey and Russell Contreras for Axios: Blue cities go red with conservative policies on crime

Michael Barbaro and Mike Baker for The New York Times’s The Daily podcast: Oregon Decriminalized Drugs. Voters Now Regret It.

Madaleine Rubin for The Texas Tribune: Sean Teare unseats Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg in primary

Stefanie Dazio for AP: Progressive Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascón advances to runoff

Jeffrey M. Jones for Gallup: More Americans See U.S. Crime Problem as Serious

Stephanie Sy and Shoshana Dubnow for the PBS News Hour: As concerns grown around surging violent crime, the numbers tell a different story

David Leonhardt for The New York Times: Should China Own TikTok?

CBS News: FBI Director Wray says China targeting U.S. civilian infrastructure, economic security

Laura He for CNN: If the US bans TikTok, China will be getting a taste of its own medicine

CBS Mornings: Jon Stewart on why he’s going back to “The Daily Show” anchor desk

Mike Pence on Fox News: TikTok is digital fentanyl and Congress, Biden must act before it’s too late

Josh Dawsey and Jeff Stein for The Washington Post: How Donald Trump switched to defending TikTok

Here are this week’s chatters:

Emily: Josh Gerstein for Politico: Federal courts move against ‘judge-shopping’ and John Dickerson and Jessica Levinson for CBS News Prime Time: New rules aim to prevent “judge shopping” in major court cases

John: Emily Goulet for Philadelphia: Fight Like a Girl: The New Wave of High-School Wrestling and Alex Bellos for The Guardian: He ate all the pi: Japanese man memorises π to 111,700 digits

David: Lend A Box

Listener chatter from Steven in Queens, New York: New York Times: Soon Finds Mother For His 5 Children; Widower Discovers Six Women Eager to Marry Him and Care for His Brood.

For this week’s Slate Plus bonus segment, David, John, and Emily talk about marriage proposals. See Caroline Kitchener for The Atlantic: Marriage Proposals Are Stupid; Sadiba Hasan for The New York Times: 10 Great Ways to Pop the Question; and Parija Kavilanz for CNN: After 2023 wraps up, get ready for a spike in marriage proposals.

In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with Kiley Reid about her book, Come and Get It.

Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)

Podcast production by Cheyna Roth 

Research by Julie Huygen

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How Mexico’s $10 billion lawsuit against American gun manufacturers and distributors could pave the way for new gun control tactics in the U.S. and abroad.

Guest: Champe Barton, reporter for The Trace. 

If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get benefits like zero ads on any Slate podcast, bonus episodes of shows like Slow Burn and Amicus—and you’ll be supporting the work we do here on What Next. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to help support our work.

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Kate Middleton’s on-going absence has the internet tied in knots, and the heavily edited photo that the royal family released—and then rescinded—only made things worse. What do we know about the Princess of Wales’s whereabouts? 

Guest: Imogen West-Knights, contributing writer for Slate based in London.

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2023 was a record-breaking year for anti-trans legislation and with over 500 bills introduced in 2024 it’s shaping up to be another critical year for statutory rights for trans people. This week, Bryan and Jules review the damage done in 2023 and look at the implications for anti-trans legislation this year with Chase Strangio, Deputy Director for Transgender Justice with the ACLU's LGBT & HIV Project.

Email us at [email protected]

Podcast production by Palace Shaw.

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On today’s episode of Hear Me Out: the purity test.

Purity, in political science, doesn’t have anything to do with morality. It has to do with whether your policy aligns with your principles. 

From “Bernie Bros” to the uncommitted vote against Biden, we’ve seen progressives protect ideological purity… and punish stances that don’t align. An all-or-nothing stance on issues like universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness might sound appealing to voters. But does it doom progress, practically, if an increment isn’t good enough?

Shaniqua McClendon, VP of Politics for Crooked Media, joins us to argue against progressive purity politics.

If you have thoughts you want to share, or an idea for a topic we should tackle, you can email the show: [email protected]

Podcast production by Maura Currie.

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In a special episode of Money Talks, Emily Peck chats with writer/director Chloe Domont, whose feminist thriller Fair Play explores what happens when an ambitious woman outshines her well-meaning but insecure partner. It was inspired by Chloe’s experience surpassing the men in her own life. (But there is a happy ending!)

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Podcast production by Jared Downing and Cheyna Roth.

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Extra charges and fees for everything from booking a hotel to buying concert tickets have become an insidious part of daily life. President Biden is hoping that by outlawing so-called “junk fees,” he can win some goodwill with voters before the election. Will it work?

Guest: David Dayen, Executive Editor of The American Prospect, author of Monopolized: Life in the Age of Corporate Power.

If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get benefits like zero ads on any Slate podcast, bonus episodes of shows like Slow Burn and Dear Prudence—and you’ll be supporting the work we do here on What Next. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to help support our work.

Podcast production by Paige Osburn, Elena Schwartz, Rob Gunther, Madeline Ducharme, and Anna Phillips.

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On Super Tuesday, Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson secured the Republican nomination for governor in North Carolina. His history of anti-semitic, misogynistic, and outright absurd comments wasn’t a problem for MAGA supporters in the state—and it certainly wasn’t a problem for the national Grand Old Party either.

Guest: Jeffrey Billman, politics and law reporter at The Assembly.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther. 

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As the debate around child safety online rages on, an investigation by The New York Times found a seedy world of pedophiles interacting with child influencer accounts, often run by their parents, on Instagram. 

Guest: Jennifer Valentino-DeVries, investigative reporter at the New York Times. 

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