Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

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Most agencies don't have a marketing problem. They have a sameness problem.

Their websites, their services, their "award-winning team" language. It's all the same. They even have the same promises that sound impressive but mean absolutely nothing to a prospect who's heard it 50 times this week.

Today's featured guest has a pretty good idea of why agencies are blending into the background and how the ones that win are doing the opposite. He'll get into differentiation, AI, pricing confidence, RFPs, and why playing it safe is the fastest way to disappear.

David Brier is the the branding expert CEOs call when their marketing hits a wall. He calls himself "rehab for brands" to help get them profitable.

He is the author of Brand Intervention and Rich Brand, Poor Brand, and he's built a career around one core idea most agencies completely miss: branding isn't about looking better but about being different.

After realizing there were more than 25,000 branding books and no agreed-upon definition, David distilled branding down to four words: the art of differentiation. That idea alone reframes how agencies should think about positioning, pricing, and growth, especially right now.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why Differentiation Isn't Optional in the Age of Lazy Thinking.

• Get Rid of the Agency Speak

• Saying 'No' as a Strategic Advantage

• Different is Better Than Better

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Why Branding and Differentiation Are No Longer Optional for Agencies

David's definition of branding cuts through the noise because it mirrors how humans actually behave. We notice what's different. We ignore what feels familiar. If your agency sounds like a remix of every other agency, your prospects' brains will quietly check out.

That's why brands like Apple feel predictable in a good way. As Seth Godin once said, you know what an Apple sneaker would be like. You don't know what a Marriott sneaker would be like—and that's the problem. One owns a point of view. The other plays it safe.

For agencies, differentiation means making a choice and being willing to lose people who aren't a fit. That's uncomfortable, especially if you're used to trying to appeal to everyone. But the agencies that scale aren't trying to be a choice. They're working to become the choice for the right clients.

How "Agency Speak" Is Killing Your Sales

Ask most agency owners what makes them different and you'll hear the same three things: our people, our process, our portfolio. That language doesn't differentiate you, it only anesthetizes the conversation. You wouldn't advise your clients to use the language of the competition, so why would you?

Additionally, David also believes that brands that take a stand and aren't afraid to be bold will automatically stand out from the many many agencies that are too timid and too afraid to offend. This doesn't mean you have to be divisive. You can be bold in a way that actually brings people together.

This fear of being truly different comes from the way we're all wired to believe that an amazing portfolio will be enough to draw people in. But the portfolio isn't the most important thing in the room, is the person sitting across from you. Stop leading with your work and start leading with questions. When you ask better questions and actually listen, prospects feel seen. By the time you show your portfolio, if you even need to, they've already decided whether they trust you.

That kind of confidence signals maturity—and it instantly separates you from the agencies still performing their pitch deck like a talent show.

Why AI Is Fueling a Sea of Sameness in Agency Marketing

AI isn't the enemy… but lazy thinking is.

David sees it as everyone is now outsourcing their ingenuity to the same tools, using the same prompts, producing the same safe output. The result is, of course, a sea of indistinguishable brands with no soul and no pulse. What he calls "The Great Wall of Beige."

The mistake agencies make is thinking AI replaces brilliance. It doesn't. It amplifies whatever you bring to it. If you don't have a point of view, AI will happily help you sound like everyone else faster.

The agencies that win in this era will use AI as a tool, not a crutch. They'll still ask, "Why the hell not?" They'll still challenge assumptions. And they'll still bring conviction, creativity, and human judgment to the table, because that's the part clients can't automate.

The Power of Saying No: Reclaiming Pricing and Positioning

When a buying process is run by a committee, the goal isn't excellence, it's consensus. And consensus is where great ideas go to die. This is why David stopped participating in RFPs. The most powerful move an agency can make isn't trying harder to win bad deals. It's being willing to walk away.

The ability to say no signals strength. It reframes the relationship. When you stop chasing every opportunity and start choosing your clients, pricing objections lose their power. As David put it, when prospects ask why he's so expensive, he flips the script: "Why is everyone else so cheap?" That mindset shift alone changes how clients perceive your value.

What's Next for Agencies to Stay Profitable in a Changing Market

The landscape is changing even from week to week with new technologies, which makes it harder to predict how the industry will change in years to come. For David, it all boils down to knowing what you're selling. Agencies that sell themselves as commodities will basically go out of business.

As he points out, AI is accelerating output but not judgment, taste, or leadership. When everyone has access to the same tools and prompts, the middle ground disappears fast. Agencies that sell "deliverables" instead of thinking will find themselves racing to the bottom on price, competing with software instead of strategy.

In a market flooded with instant, AI-generated work, the real differentiator becomes the ability to think on your feet, challenge assumptions, and connect dots in real time. The greatest athletes, actors, comedians, and entrepreneurs in the world were able to think for themselves and could take something unexpected and work with it and improvise. Can you give people something unexpected? That's something no tool can replicate, and it's why experience is becoming more valuable, not less.

Why Different Beats Better: Escaping the Race to the Bottom

David strongly believes that in these times of sameness and an abundance of content that lacks pulse and personality, different is better than better. Agencies that have completely given up trying to create something unique and have instead relegated the thinking to AI will try to stand out by repeatedly stating they're better, faster, or bigger.

David, however, prefers to offer something different. This gives him the confidence to face clients that come to a meeting with rehearsed questions they got from other creators to assess him and counter with "actually, you're asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is…"

No framework replaces conviction. The best leaders don't answer scripted questions—they redirect them.

That's how you elevate the conversation. That's how you escape commodity pricing. And that's how you build a brand people remember.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Have you ever questioned whether you're actually built for the hard seasons of agency life? When things get messy, unpredictable, or overwhelming, do you wonder if you have what it takes to keep going or if everyone else somehow got a playbook you missed? Most agency owners don't wake up one day and decide, "I'm going to build an agency." They trip into it. One project turns into two, side work turns into real revenue, and suddenly you're invoicing clients without knowing what an invoice number is supposed to look like.

Today's featured guest unpacks what it really looks like to build an agency without a roadmap. Through failed partnerships, stalled careers, and moments where quitting felt easier than continuing, he developed the resilience and mindset required to keep moving.

Cliff Skelliter is a serial entrepreneur and owner of Launchpad Creative, a design-thinking agency, working across brand identity, video production, and strategy. They blend artistry, functionality, and brand communication to create captivating digital and physical spaces that not only engage and inspire but also reflect the essence and values of the organizations they work with.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The Easiest Choice: Leaving his Career and Going All-In on the Agency

• What He Learned from His Partnership Experiences

• Self-Belief as the Most Important Lesson for Agency Owners

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

When Going All-In on the Side Hustle is as Easy Yes

Cliff didn't grow up in a family of entrepreneurs, and never set out to "start a business." His entry into agency life wasn't strategic, it was reactive. While working an internship at Canadian news station CTV, he saw the ceiling in broadcast media and realized that no matter how talented or ambitious he was, there was a limit to how far that career could go. Meanwhile, he was already getting requests to work on some projects outside of the station.

Eventually, the projects kept getting bigger and the people at the station complained Cliff was creating a conflict of interests with his side hustle, as clients chose him, instead of the station, to produce their commercials. It was an ultimatum, and the choice was clear. By then, that "side hustle" was more lucrative and offered more creative control. Plus, it was just more fun.

What's important here isn't just how Cliff started—it's what he didn't have. No business background. No sales training. No master plan. Like many agency owners, he learned by doing, Googling, guessing, and occasionally getting it wrong, which is mostly the default path. The danger is assuming everyone else has it figured out, while you're making it up as you go.

Agency Partnerships: When They Work and When They Break You

Cliff's first business partnership was both formative and brutal. His partner helped get the business off the ground but was dishonest, reckless, and ultimately destructive. While Cliff focused on creative work, his partner handled sales and accounts… and quietly created financial chaos. When the partner disappeared, Cliff was left holding the debt and the consequences.

Many agency owners bring on partners not because it's strategic, but because it feels safer. Someone else handles sales. Someone else deals with money. Someone else shares the weight. But if values, ethics, and accountability aren't aligned, the cost can be enormous.

Thankfully, Cliff was able to recover from the blows to both the agency's finances and its reputation. He also gave partnerships another chance. The second partnership was different and far more successful. Cliff partnered with someone who combined complementary skills to build a business that lasted nine years. It worked because each person did what they were good at and didn't want to do the rest. Even then, the partnership eventually ended, not because of business failure, but personal life complications.

Partnerships aren't good or bad by default; they amplify whatever already exists. Clear roles, boundaries, and shared values make them powerful. Avoidance, people-pleasing, and lack of communication make them fragile.

Resilience, Self-Belief, and the Placebo Effect of Entrepreneurship

Cliff got important lessons from both experiences, mainly that he's much more capable than he thought. He could handle sales, which is something he doubted for years. Like many agency owners, he assumed you had to be a certain "type" of salesperson or personality to run a business. In reality, you just need to ask better questions and not be afraid of uncomfortable conversations.

He also learned he's far more resilient than he gave himself credit for. Most agency owners would testify to the fact that the universe constantly gives you outs. Jobs. Acquisitions. Easier paths. And yet, something in your gut says, "I'm not done." That resilience isn't logical. It's identity-level. Entrepreneurship stops being something you do and becomes something you are.

He now understands the importance of believing in himself, even when it seems absurd. Your mind alone can trigger real physical outcomes. When doubt creeps in, remind yourself that belief itself is a lever. Not hype and not manifesting nonsense; just the willingness to keep going when the story in your head tells you to quit.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Running an agency today looks nothing like it did even a few years ago. What used to work: SEO-driven inbound leads, tight vertical niches, and predictable platforms, has shifted fast. Today's featured guest has learned to adapt to these changes and went from having a clear and defined niche to letting clients' needs guide the next steps for her business. She'll talk about navigating those changes, evolving your positioning, and deciding whether you're actually willing to do what adaptation requires.

Laryssa Wirstiuk is the owner of Joy Joya, a boutique email and SMS marketing agency that serves women-focused, product-based e-commerce brands. With more than 15 years in marketing and over a decade running her own agency, Laryssa has lived through multiple shifts in platforms, buyer behavior, and agency models.

Her background as a marketing generalist, working across SEO, social, and email, gave her the flexibility to adapt as the market changed. That adaptability, combined with a strong point of view on branding, inbound marketing, and outbound growth, made her a great guest for agency owners questioning what's next for their own businesses.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Starting out with a clear niche and evolving along the way.

• Adopting a hybrid growth strategy.

• Personal brand vs. clear offers.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

How to Choose a Niche Without Getting Stuck In It

Laryssa didn't stumble into her original niche by accident. After working across industries like tech, education, and healthcare, she realized none of them truly excited her. Jewelry stood out because of its mix of fashion, storytelling, and creativity. Rather than guessing, she intentionally took in-house and freelance roles in the jewelry industry to build credibility before going all in.

That vertical focus paid off. By committing to a specific industry, Laryssa was able to build a strong referral network, speak at trade shows, and create highly targeted content that drove inbound leads. But after nine years in the jewelry space, she noticed that the biggest results she delivered for clients consistently came from email marketing. What started as one service among many became the clear driver of ROI.

The shift from a vertical niche (jewelry) to a horizontal specialization (email and SMS marketing) wasn't a sudden pivot. It was a response to real performance data. Stronger results, clearer processes, and deeper expertise made the decision feel natural. Your niche should serve your strengths, not trap you in yesterday's model.

Why Inbound Alone Is No Longer Enough

For most of Joy Joya's history, inbound marketing did the heavy lifting. Content, SEO, YouTube, and a podcast tailored to the jewelry industry created steady deal flow without much outbound effort. That's one of the biggest benefits of vertical focus: you can dominate a small pond with the right content and relationships.

But the market shifted. Search behavior changed. Social algorithms changed and AI entered the picture. Laryssa realized that relying solely on inbound was no longer enough. Over the past year or two, she intentionally started building outbound muscles: cold email, cold calling, LinkedIn outreach, and systems that allowed her team to support those efforts.

The key insight here isn't that inbound is dead, it's that inbound alone is risky. Agencies that survived and grew were willing to adapt their acquisition mix, even when it meant doing uncomfortable things.

The Hard Question Every Agency Owner Faces

Adapting isn't just about strategy. You should also ask yourself whether you want to do what's required next. New platforms, new sales motions, and new expectations can trigger an existential crisis for long-time owners.

You don't have to love every part of running an agency, but you do need the discipline to face the things you'd rather avoid. The solution isn't grinding forever but rather identifying what you don't enjoy, systemizing it, delegating it, or removing it altogether.

Agency owners should get comfortable with change as a necessary part of running an agency. The hard part is that change often targets the things you already tolerate but don't love. That's why many agencies stall. The owners don't hate their situation enough to change it but they don't love it enough to stay fully committed either.

When Personal Brand Creates Attention But Not Conversions

As AI and recommendation engines influence buying decisions, developing a personal brand becomes vital when it comes to being recommended by these tools. People want to work with leaders whose beliefs, values, and perspectives they understand. That's why podcasts, long-form content, and consistent points of view matter more than ever.

In her case, Laryssa shared an unexpected challenge after developing her personal brand. She had built such a strong personal and brand identity that many people understood her perspective but didn't fully understand what her agency actually did. In some cases, prospects were more familiar with the brand name than the services behind it.

The lesson for agency owners is balance. Thought leadership without clear offers creates attention without conversion. As platforms evolve, it's not enough to educate—you need to connect that education to the right services, for the right audience, at the right time.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

If AI can now write, design, and build faster than your team, what does a profitable agency actually sell next? Most agency owners have experienced a weird mix of excitement and anxiety about AI. On the surface, it feels like everything is changing overnight, including websites, content, search, development, and even how clients perceive value. Underneath that panic, though, there's a calmer truth: the fundamentals of running a great agency haven't changed at all. The tools have.

Today's featured guest talks candidly about where AI actually helps agencies, where it's wildly overhyped, and why agency owners who focus on systems, relationships, and leverage will win while everyone else burns out chasing shiny tools.

Eric Weidner is the founder of Workbox, a digital agency specializing in websites and custom applications for pharmaceutical companies and pharma marketing agencies. With a background that stretches back to the early days of the web, Eric has built, rebuilt, and adapted his agency multiple times, and today he's deep in the practical application of AI for real agency work, not just demos and hype.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• How agencies are positioned to win with AI.

• Avoid creating client disappointment with incorrect use of AI.

• The brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

The Road to Becoming a Long-Term Agency Operator

Eric fell into web development in the mid-90s while working as a secretary administrator at a law firm in San Francisco. Exposure to early tech including computer networks, WordPerfect, XML, and eventually HTML turned into freelance work. That freelance work led to clients and eventually an agency.

His story mirrors how most agencies actually begin, with skill, opportunity, and momentum. The problem is that what gets you started is rarely what helps you scale. Eric's longevity comes from his willingness to evolve without abandoning the fundamentals that keep agencies profitable.

And that's the trap many agency owners fall into today: assuming AI is a complete reset instead of a force multiplier for the right business model.

Why AI Feels Like a Career Defining Moment for Agencies

When ChatGPT first came out, Eric didn't treat it like a novelty. He went all in because, for the first time in years, the intellectual challenge of building and running an agency felt exciting again.

For a lot of seasoned agency owners, the business had become… static. Same services. Same delivery challenges. Same team bottlenecks. AI cracked that open. Suddenly, there were new problems to solve, new efficiencies to unlock, and new ways to multiply output without multiplying headcount.

Ai introduced a chance to rethink how work gets done, how fast ideas move, and how agencies create leverage, not just more work.

Eric has no blind optimism when it comes to AI. It isn't magic, and it's not ready to replace strategic thinking. But it is a force multiplier for agencies that understand systems.

That's the opportunity most agencies are missing.

Instead of asking, "How do we sell AI to clients?" the smarter question is:

"How do we use AI to reduce friction, speed up delivery, and improve results—then package that advantage?"

Agencies that do this become faster, leaner, and more profitable. Agencies that don't end up stuck in fulfillment, competing on price, and drowning in tools they don't fully understand.

AI Is Powerful But It Still Needs a Human Brain

AI tools can feel like a superpower, especially if you've never loved certain parts of your job. Writing, development, ideation, and prototyping are faster than ever.

But there's a catch.

AI works best at the first pass. Ask it to build a landing page, mock up a system, or outline functionality, and it shines. Ask it to make nuanced, detailed changes across a complex system, and it starts to fall apart. In a sense, AI is like a drunk intern—brilliant on the first assignment, frustrating when you ask for revisions.

For agency owners, this matters because selling AI as a silver bullet is a fast way to create client disappointment. The agencies that win will be the ones who understand where AI increases leverage and where human judgment still matters.

Websites, Search, and the Shift Nobody's Talking About

One of the most important things to understand if you're building a website nowadays is that we're not building websites just for humans anymore.

As AI-driven search becomes more dominant, users don't always need to click through to a site to get answers. That changes how content, SEO, and authority work. Eric points to GEO—Generative Engine Optimization—as the next evolution of SEO, where freshness, clarity, and structured authority matter more than volume.

This creates a brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing. To stay visible, brands must publish consistently. Content often needs to be less than 90 days old to stay relevant in AI-driven systems.

For agency owners already stuck in fulfillment, this is a warning sign. More services, more content, more tools without better systems just equals faster burnout.

Content Alone Isn't Enough. Your Voice Builds Trust

With AI flooding the internet with content, differentiation matters more—not less. People don't just consume content, they build relationships with voices they trust.

That's why podcasts, communities, and consistent thought leadership outperform random marketing tactics. When people hear you think out loud for years, trust compounds. In an AI-saturated world, that human connection becomes the advantage.

Or as Jason puts it: when agency owners say they need more leads, the answer is often boring but effective. Build a platform. Build trust. Stay visible.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

How big do you actually want your agency to become? Does the idea of running a massive team sound exciting or completely exhausting? For many agency owners, scaling feels less like growth and more like trading freedom for complexity.

Scaling an agency isn't about hustle. It's about surviving the moments that almost break you, building systems that actually work, and accepting that what got you here won't get you there. Today's featured guest understands that running a big agency is about structure and leadership. He's grown a global agency to 700 people without losing profitability, sanity, or culture and now he'll unpack the hard-earned lessons that most agency owners don't think about until it's too late.

Nital Shah is the co-founder of Mavlers, a full-service, lifecycle digital agency headquartered in India, with operations supporting global brands and agencies across multiple geographies. Today, Nital leads a 700-person organization focused on marketing operations, delivery excellence, and scalable systems for agencies around the world.

Having experienced both sides of the agency equation, client-side pressure and operational scale, Nital brings a grounded, operator-first perspective to growth, profitability, and leadership.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• An early principle: Profit should be intentional.

• Achieving operational excellence at scale.

• Structuring scale to make it manageable.

• Why alignment beats micromanagement.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Wake-Up Call: COVID, Cash Flow, and Retainers

Like many agencies, Nital's biggest inflection point came during COVID. Before the disruption, the agency was focused heavily on top-line revenue rather than predictable recurring income. When 40 percent of revenue disappeared almost overnight, the weakness in that model became painfully obvious.

Luckily, the agency's consistent focus on profit from day one helped them overcome this ordeal. However, it changed Nital's perspective on retainers and helped him understand that, without retainers, any similar unexpected bump in the road could destroy the agency.

The agency had enough cash flow to survive the shock and rebuild and the lesson was clear: at scale, a large team without consistent recurring revenue is fragile. Retainers aren't just about stability; they are about survival.

The other advantage that helped soften the blow was diversification. By spreading clients across industries and geographies, the agency avoided being wiped out by a single market downturn. When one region slowed, others carried the load. That balance didn't eliminate pain, but it reduced risk in a way most agencies underestimate until they feel it firsthand.

Profit Is Not an Afterthought

One of the most important principles Nital and his co-founder agreed on early was: profit must be intentional. It's not something you hope shows up at the end of the year. It's something you design into the business.

That mindset shapes everything from service selection to client qualification. The agency actively avoids hyper-competitive, race-to-the-bottom services and continually evolves its offerings as markets become saturated. When a service becomes unprofitable, they pivot. When a client isn't aligned or drains margin, they say no.

Profit isn't just about owner income. It funds experimentation, innovation, and future growth. Without margin, you can't test new services, pivot when the market shifts, or invest in better systems. You just stay busy. And busy is often the enemy of profitable.

Operational Excellence at Scale

Running a 700-person agency isn't about heroics but about process. Nital is clear that consistent, documented, and enforced workflows are what reduce mistakes, rework, and delivery friction.

The agency is structured into service-based business units, each with its own leadership and accountability. On top of that sits a customer success layer that ensures delivery stays aligned with expectations. Everyone is trained on defined protocols, and those protocols exist to protect quality, not bureaucracy.

When processes are clear and followed, the probability of hitting client outcomes increases. That reduces rework, lowers internal stress, and improves margins. In a people-driven business, operational discipline is what turns chaos into leverage.

Alignment Beats Micromanagement

One of the hardest challenges for Nital's agency came after rapid post-COVID growth, when the team doubled in size and remote work became the norm. Processes broke, alignment slipped, and as a result, communication suffered.

The turning point came with adopting the Scaling Up framework by Vern Harnish. This framework, aimed at businesses ready to scale in a more structured manner, forced clarity across four areas: people, strategy, execution, and cash. More importantly, it created alignment from leadership all the way down to individual contributors.

Every team member understands how their work connects to departmental goals, quarterly priorities, and long-term vision. When people understand the why behind the process, ownership replaces micromanagement. Accountability becomes cultural, not enforced.

Leadership, Tough Calls, and A-Players

When it comes to mistakes in team alignment, Nital openly acknowledges that the team that gets you to one stage may not be the team that gets you to the next.

That realization isn't easy, especially when loyalty and shared history are involved. But over the last two years Nital has embraced the fact that growth demands adaptability. The agency now prioritizes agility, learning speed, and ownership. When someone can't evolve with the business, they are given time, feedback, and support, but the standard doesn't change.

You don't win championships by protecting weak links. You win by putting the best players on the field while still treating people with respect and empathy. It's not cold. It's responsible leadership.

Structuring Scale So It's Manageable

When Nital decided to go back to India and start an agency, his mentor back in Australia offered him the chance to run their offshore center. From there, he started supporting other agencies in several countries and expanded his team to where they are now.

Seven hundred people sounds overwhelming until you understand the structure. Instead of one massive organization, the agency operates as multiple business units, each capped around 100 to 150 people and run as its own P&L.

This turns an impossible leadership problem into a manageable one. Leaders focus on coaching their direct reports, not managing hundreds of individuals. Each layer carries responsibility downward, creating clarity instead of bottlenecks.

As Nital points out, no founder manages 700 people directly. You manage your leadership team. And if that team is strong, aligned, and accountable, scale becomes less scary and far more sustainable.

The Future: AI, Change, and Opportunity

Despite the uncertainty surrounding AI and marketing technology, Nital is optimistic. The pace of change has leveled the playing field. Years of experience no longer guarantee an advantage. Everyone is adapting at the same time.

For smaller agencies, this creates opportunity. They can adopt tools and workflows faster than large organizations. For larger agencies, the challenge is moving faster without breaking structure. Either way, the shift toward complex marketing technology orchestration opens doors for agencies willing to master it.

For him, the future belongs to agencies that can adapt, systemize, and evolve without clinging to what used to work.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Do you feel constantly worried about shrinking organic visibility, heavier ad pressure, and constant change? Running an agency has never been a straight line. Platforms change, algorithms shift, and what worked five years ago can quietly stop working overnight. Organic visibility is shrinking, ads are getting more expensive, and uncertainty feels constant.

Today's featured guest knows that reality and will share her journey from agency employee to founder of a 43-person local SEO agency, along with her honest perspective on Google, AI, remote teams, and why growing bigger can actually create more freedom and impact when done for the right reasons.

Joy Hawkins is the founder and owner of Sterling Sky, a specialized local SEO agency focused on helping businesses rank on Google Maps and local search results. She has been working in the SEO industry since 2006 and is widely known for her deep understanding of how Google's algorithm works, especially in local search.

Sterling Sky is a fully remote agency with team members spread across Canada and the United States. What started as a small consulting experiment has grown into a 43-person team over eight years.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Google, AI, and the future of local SEO

• Why SEO agencies must diversify to survive

• Building a fully remote team.

Subscribe

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Agency Employee to Founder of a Local SEO Agency

After more than a decade inside agencies, Joy realized she was more interested in how systems worked than in selling them. When disagreements about services and sales responsibilities reached a breaking point, she decided to try consulting (fully prepared to dip into savings and return to a job if needed).

Clients came faster than expected. Eight years later, that experiment has grown into a 43-person remote agency.

Google, AI, and the Future of Local SEO

One of the biggest challenges Joy sees in the industry right now is the pace of change inside Google's ecosystem. Features are constantly being swapped out, organic real estate is shrinking, and small businesses are feeling the impact more than ever. While agencies can usually adapt, clients often struggle because Google still represents such a large percentage of their lead flow.

A major concern Joy sees is how Google is pushing more ads and limiting organic exposure, especially in local results. On mobile devices, users are now seeing local service ads dominate the top of the screen, followed by AI-driven local results that are shrinking from three listings down to one in some cases. For businesses that used to rely on being second or third in the map pack, this shift can mean a dramatic drop in calls almost overnight.

Despite the fear around AI, Joy does not believe Google is going anywhere. As she points out, Google's real advantage is data. Reviews, location history, calls, visits, and behavior all live inside Google Maps. That depth of information is something other platforms struggle to match. Local SEO is still viable, but it is no longer free traffic in the way many business owners became used to.

The bigger lesson is not about Google itself, but about dependency. When an agency or a business relies too heavily on one channel, any change can feel catastrophic. The agencies that struggle the most right now tend to be those built around rigid, cookie-cutter systems that cannot flex with the landscape.

Why SEO Agencies Must Diversify to Survive

Agency owners who want time to adapt should keep in mind it's always better to have an outbound strategy, an inbound strategy, and partnerships that you can rely on. If all your business comes from one channel and that channel changes, you are forced into reaction mode.

The opportunity here is for agencies to guide clients toward broader strategies. That might include paid ads, partnerships, or even old school tactics like direct mail and local sponsorships. The exact tactic matters less than the mindset. Businesses need multiple levers to pull so they are not held hostage by one platform's decisions.

For instance, right now everyone's scrambling to adopt AI in their processes, services, and more. But you should also try to understand the economics behind AI and advertising. The massive data centers, energy consumption, and infrastructure costs mean that today's low prices will not last forever.

Platforms are investing heavily now with the expectation that monetization will follow. For agency owners, this reinforces the importance of pricing correctly, setting expectations with clients, and building offers that account for rising costs and shrinking organic margins.

Building a Fully Remote Agency

Joy's agency started more as a practical decision than a remote-first experiment. After years of working from home she saw no reason to take on the overhead of an office. The cost savings mattered early on, but the flexibility mattered even more.

Without a commute, Joy could better balance work and family life. That same benefit extended to her team. Many of her early hires were former coworkers from an agency that later shut down, people she already trusted and respected. Since they were geographically spread out, an office would have created unnecessary friction.

Expanding into the United States was also a strategic move. Joy wanted access to a larger talent pool so she could be extremely selective about who she hired. Being remote made it possible to hire people who were already passionate about local SEO instead of settling for whoever happened to live nearby.

Culture, Connection, and Team Building at Scale

One of the risks of running a remote agency is losing human connection. Joy is very intentional about avoiding that. While informal meetups happen more often in Canada, the entire team gets together once a year for an in person retreat.

The goal of these retreats is mostly relationship building. Joy genuinely likes the people she works with and considers many of them friends. She believes that strong relationships create trust, better communication, and a healthier work environment overall.

Joy sees firsthand how flexible work, reasonable boundaries, and a supportive environment can be life changing for employees who came from toxic workplaces. That impact has become a meaningful part of why she continues to grow the agency.

Why Scaling the Agency Became a Mission

When she first started her agency, Joy wanted a small team. Ten people or fewer. Highly experienced. Minimal management. That vision changed a few years in, and the reason surprised her.

Around two years in, her agency began supporting a charity in Uganda, and the more she built that relationship, the more Joy saw how far a single dollar could stretch there compared to North America. Visiting in person made the impact real. She realized that by growing the agency, she could dramatically increase the good they could do through that partnership.

The same realization applied to her team. As the agency grew, Joy saw how stable, flexible work improved her employees' lives. That sense of responsibility and opportunity shifted her perspective as she figured out her purpose. Now growth was no longer about ego or scale for its own sake. It became a way to create more impact both inside and outside the business.

Leadership, Delegation, and Hiring for Your Weaknesses

Agency owners who wish to keep their businesses small are often thinking about the nightmare that running a big agency can be. They imagine that the headaches they deal with at ten employees will just double if the team doubles. However, this was never the case for Joy. When she thinks about overworking she thinks about her time working for others.

This is probably because Joy has always been very clear about what she does not enjoy. Accounting, taxes, and people management are high on the list, and instead of forcing herself to become good at everything, she hired people who genuinely enjoy those areas.

A strong accountant removed massive mental load early on and hiring leadership team members who thrive on managing people allowed Joy to focus on strategy and innovation. She believes this is one of the biggest unlocks for agency owners who feel trapped.

Delegation is not about offloading busywork. It is about trusting capable people to own outcomes. Joy prefers hiring experienced professionals over entry level talent because she does not want to micromanage. Her expectations are high, but so is her respect for her team's autonomy.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Starting with a clearly defined niche can make all the difference when you're landing your first clients and deeply understanding that niche can carry you through the toughest seasons of agency life. Today's featured guest built his agency on exactly that foundation.

Before launching his firm, he spent years working as a consultant for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission. Along the way, he identified a clear gap in the market.

That expertise proved invaluable during the pandemic. While uncertainty hit many agencies hard, he trusted his understanding of the space and chose to weather the slow months, confident the work would return. His patience paid off as demand surged later in the year.

He'll share the lessons learned from more than 20 years of building and running a thriving niche agency in one of the most political and complex markets in the world—and why focus, patience, and deep domain knowledge remain his greatest competitive advantages.

Filip Lugovic is the co-founder and CEO of The Right Street, an EU-focused digital communications agency based in Brussels. For the last 20 years, he's lived in the middle of the "Brussels bubble," where organizations, trade groups, and companies fight for attention from the European Commission, Parliament, and Council.

His agency sits at the intersection of public affairs + digital communications, serving organizations trying to influence policies that impact nearly half a billion people across Europe.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Identifying and owning a highly specific niche.

• Building a client list with the power of low-hanging fruit.

• Getting their best quarter during COVID.

• Keeping a creative team inspired during slow cycles.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Door-to-Door Sales to the EU Policy Bubble

Before he ever pitched a digital campaign, Filip was strangers' knocking on doors in Southern California selling heart-shaped pillows and screwdrivers with built-in flashlights. Not exactly glamorous, but it taught him the skill most agency owners run from: sales.

When he landed in Brussels in 2005, he fell into a job selling ads for EU Observer, one of the leading political publications at the time. His clients were the same organizations trying to get in front of policymakers.

Over the next decade, he built a deep network and a knack for relationship-based selling. Eventually, he left to consult on his own, but by 2017, he hit the same wall most consultants do: "I'm making money… but it all goes to someone else."

A lunch with his current business partner (a seasoned communicator who had served as spokesperson for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission) led to a plan to build something together.

Building a Niche Agency: Where Marketing Meets Lobbying

Once they figured out their roles and what they brought to the partnership, Filip and his partner started making plans and realized something: Most agencies in Brussels fell into one of two buckets:

• Lobbying firms who knew politics but didn't understand digital.

• Marketing agencies who knew digital but didn't understand politics.

No one sat in the middle.

So they built an agency that merged both worlds, pairing policy context with high-quality digital production.

At the time, it was a hypothesis, and a risky one. Only a couple of competitors existed. But they saw the gap and took it.

Landing the First Clients by Leveraging Existing Relationships

Filip is no stranger to knocking on doors to sell a product, and he would have for his agency. However, this wasn't the right environment for that, so when it came time to start looking for clients, he relied on his network.

Filip's approach to sales was never transactional and he very much enjoyed building lasting relationships.

This is something many agency owners overcomplicate. Filip's first step wasn't SEO, funnels, or paid ads. It was: "Let me call every single person I already know and ask them to grab a coffee."

That alone got him his first tiny clients. It wasn't a big account. Five hundred euros for hours of work, and zero profit. But it built the early case studies they needed.

Most agencies try to skip this part. They want the big brand logo first. But every agency you admire started by leveraging relationships and building proof.

Pro tip: You should always continue to revisit these relationships. Reach out to that client and buy them a coffee. This is the low-hanging fruit that can get your agency out of a tough spot. If you're not doing this, you're leaving money on the table.

How Deep Market Knowledge Helps in Hard Times

By January 2020, Filip's agency was growing at a healthy pace, had a new office and a seven-person team.

Then we experience COVID shut downs.

Their contracts froze, clients stopped paying, and their pipeline evaporated. Meanwhile, the agency had fixed expenses and a growing team relying on them.

Most agencies would've cut staff and hoped to survive. Filip didn't.

Luckily, he understood his market: EU organizations operate on annual budgets. If they don't spend it, they lose it the following year.

So he and his partner made the hard call: No salaries for themselves (they relied on their wives for a while). Keep the team. Use that time to aggressively market.

Their bet paid off and by Q4, every organization that couldn't run events was suddenly scrambling for digital support.

Their best quarter ever happened during one of the scariest years on record.

It was the foundation of everything that came afterwards.

Keeping the Team Inspired During Slow Cycles

How do you keep a creative team motivated when client work stops?

Filip's answer: "Let them create whatever they want." There were no clients nitpicking colors or people demanding designers to make the logo bigger.

It was a rare opportunity for pure, unfiltered creative expression.

The team remembers that period as one of the most enjoyable times in the agency's history, despite the financial uncertainty.

Why Big Name Clients Don't Always Make the Best Case Studies

Most agency owners are probably familiar with this scenario: A famous brand comes in with big expectations and a big budget, and you brush off early concerns thinking their reputation would suffice to make the use of their case story all worthwhile.

It happened to Filip and, unfortunately, after dismissing those concerns, the client rewrote everything and destroyed the design.

Now they couldn't even put it on their website.

Filip laughs about this now, because it still happens. Sometimes the smallest project gives you the best case study. Sometimes the biggest one becomes a "please-don't-put-our-name-on-that" situation.

Just show the work you're proud of, not just the work you were paid for.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What a year. I sat down with over 100 incredible agency owners—and the insights were unreal. From million-dollar breakthroughs to hard-earned lessons, these founders brought the real talk. In this special year-end episode, I'm sharing the top 5 interviews that stood out most.

To everyone who tuned in, shared an episode, or took action from something they heard—thank you. This show is for you, and because of you.

Here's to a smarter, stronger, more scalable 2026. Let's go.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

AI, Efficiency & the Future of Digital Agencies | with Manish Dudharejia (E2M Solutions)

If you're running a digital agency and wondering how the hell you're supposed to keep up with AI, automation, and shifting client expectations—this one's for you.

Jason sits down with Manish Dudharejia, founder of E2M Solutions, one of the largest white-label partners for agencies, to break down where the real opportunities are—and what's about to get wiped out.

Spoiler: Agencies that don't embrace efficiency will get eaten alive.

Whether you're stuck in fulfillment hell or just trying to stay 3 steps ahead, this is a must-watch if you want to grow smarter, not grind harder.

From Freelancer to CEO: How Kriston Sellier Built a Scalable, Human-Centered Agency

Kriston Sellier, Founder of Id8, shares how she broke free from the freelancer grind, stopped being held hostage by a single client, and transformed into a confident CEO with systems, a team, and a business that no longer revolved around her.

We dig into the moment she realized she wasn't really running a business and how hiring a consultant changed everything (and brought in 25 new clients)

This isn't fluff. It's the real path from chaos to clarity—one that too many agency owners skip because they're stuck reacting.

From $1M to $40M: How Chris Dreyer Scaled His SEO Agency with One Counterintuitive Strategy

If you're an agency owner stuck managing chaos, wondering how the hell to grow without everything breaking—this is your blueprint.

I sat down with Chris Dreyer, CEO of Rankings.io, who scaled his agency from barely breaking 7 figures to nearing $40 million in pure service revenue.

And no, it wasn't because of some sexy funnel or overnight hack. It was because he doubled down on relationships.

Favorite line from Chris: "You mean to tell me it's not worth $500 to go shake hands with a $125K client?"

This isn't theory. It's what the top 1% of agencies are actually doing—and it's probably not what you're doing right now.

How to Build an Agency Team That Sticks & Clients Who Actually Respect You | Colin Hetherington

I sat down with Colin Hetherington, founder of Dublin's Common Good and co-founder of Zoo Digital (which scaled to $3M+ with less than 5% turnover). Colin's the real deal—he's built agencies people love working at and clients want to stay with.

You'll hear how Colin combined strategy, creativity, and technical execution to create an agency that stood out—and why focusing on team trust and clarity made all the difference.

Whether you're scaling or starting fresh, there's gold in this conversation on how to lead without burning out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Are you thinking about expanding your agency through acquisitions? Buying another firm can be one of the fastest ways to scale, but only if you choose the right partners and nail the cultural fit. Otherwise, growth can quickly turn into chaos.

Today's featured guest has been through five acquisitions, each one teaching her a different (and sometimes painful) lesson about what truly makes a merger succeed. In this episode, she opens up about her biggest acquisition missteps, the cultural mismatches that nearly derailed integrations, forecasting errors she didn't see coming, and the identity challenges that arise when two teams collide.

Kimberly Eberl is the Founder and CEO of The Motion Agency, a full service marketing and communications shop with offices in Chicago, Cincinnati, and Nashville. While the agency offers everything from creative to content, it is unusually strong in public relations with roughly 20 PR pros on staff.

Kimberly has completed five acquisitions, navigated the cultural and financial highs and lows of M&A, and grown Motion into one of the most respected independent agencies in the Chicago market.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• When acquisitions help agencies scale—and when they backfire.

• Lessons learned from five agency acquisitions.

• Why agency owners often misjudge valuation and earnouts.

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Fired Account Director to Agency Founder

Kimberly jokes that she is one of those founders who got fired into entrepreneurship. At her previous agency, the account director role was undefined and impossible to succeed in. The revolving door should have been a clue. She lasted a year before being let go and scrambling to figure out her next move.

With no grand plan, she fell into freelancing in 2006. The economy was healthy. The demand came fast. And pretty quickly she reached that moment every accidental agency owner hits. Either say no to work or hire help. She chose to hire.

That early decision set the tone for the next decade. Instead of trying to do it all herself, she leaned into building a team and letting the business grow past her personal capacity.

Outgrowing a Single-Service Model: Moving Beyond One Specialty

Kimberly started as a PR pro. That focus worked for a while, but eventually she noticed how much money she was leaving on the table. Clients wanted websites, creative, content, and she was constantly referring the work away.

The big shift happened when she decided to expand beyond PR and bring more capabilities in-house. This meant hiring outside her comfort zone and learning how to oversee work she could not personally do. That decision opened the door to real growth.

Many agency owners get stuck right there. They stay in their one specialty because it is safe. Kimberly pushed through that discomfort and built a service mix clients actually wanted.

The Reality of Acquiring Another Agency: Lessons from 5 Acquisitions

Kimberly opted to add these new services through acquisitions. So far, she has completed five and every one had a different lesson.

Her first major acquisition was bold. She bought an agency twice the size of her own. Financially and emotionally, it was a lot. Looking back, she admits she may not do a deal that large again, especially in a specialty she did not personally understand. But she also learned that size does not determine complexity. A one-person agency with contractors had just as many integration headaches as a larger shop.

What mattered most was agency culture. Some deals looked perfect on paper but fell apart because the values, expectations, and behaviors did not align. One deal in particular was financially great and culturally awful. She kept one client from that acquisition. Another deal was financially terrible but culturally perfect. Years later, most of those staff members are still with her.

Her biggest warning: never ignore cultural red flags during the courting phase. Take time to hang out with the sellers, how they operate, and experience their company's culture. Go to dinner, Travel together. You'll notice small behaviors (snapping over minor problems, chronic lateness, lack of transparency) that won't disappear after the contract is signed.

Valuation Mistakes That Kill Good Deals

Kimberly also dove into how she approaches valuations and why so many sellers get this part wrong. She focuses on future performance, realistic forecasts, and removing costs that will not continue after the sale. She also pushes back on inflated projections. If an owner claims revenue will double, the earnout should reflect that. Big promises are fine, but they should come with big accountability.

One agency she walked away from wanted a valuation equal to twice their gross revenue. They were using cash-based accounting and ignoring profitability. It was an immediate red flag. Kimberly's advice to owners is simple. Build a business that is sellable even if you never plan to sell. Get your financials clean. Use accrual accounting. And be realistic about your numbers.

Leadership, Loyalty, and the Hardest Skill — Letting Go

As the agency scaled, leadership challenges became just as complex as financial ones. Kimberly admits she is confused about why she is the largest woman-owned agency in Chicago at only seventy people. She is proud of the title, but she wonders why more women are not reaching similar scale.

There are no differences in capability, but many female founders still hit a ceiling often tied to loyalty, delegation, or difficulty letting people go. Some owners, especially women, treat their team like family and struggle to make hard decisions around performance. She admitted she has been loyal to a fault at times and is working on finding a healthy balance.

Agencies function more like all star sports teams. The roster changes every year. People get promoted, moved, or sometimes released. That does not mean you failed. It means you are adapting so the team as a whole can win.

Kimberly is even working on building hobbies outside her agency because she noticed how much of her identity was tied to work. It is a relatable struggle for founders who have poured years into their companies.

AI Changes the Work, Not the Need for Agencies

Let's be clear, agencies are not going away because of AI. Kimberly certainly doesn't believe that. She treats AI like an intern. Helpful. Fast. But still needing quality control, creativity, and leadership. Clients still want real relationships. They want someone who understands context and nuance.

Agencies serving tech-savvy individuals will feel churn from AI, but agencies serving plumbers, service-based businesses, and non marketers will be fine. These clients want to stay in their lane and hire experts for everything else.

Marketing evolves, but agencies survive because the business model adapts.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What do you do when a business partnership fails? Do you try to engineer the perfect agreement so the exit is clean, or focus on alignment long before anyone signs anything? The truth is, most agency partnerships fail because owners rush into them without slowing down to see the cracks. Preparing for the worst is not pessimistic. It is how you protect the business you are trying to build.

Today's featured guest has gone through failed starts, broken agency partnerships, and overcommitting his time as the owner for fear of losing opportunities. He'll unpack 25 years of wins, mistakes, and hard earned clarity, from building his agency and how the biggest breakthroughs came from leadership shifts rather than marketing tactics.

Andy Crestodina is the co founder of Orbit Media, a Chicago based web development and optimization agency approaching its 25th year in business. Orbit has grown to a team of fifty five and more than eight million in annual revenue. Andy is also one of the most respected voices in content marketing, with millions of readers, hundreds of speaking engagements each year, and a reputation for teaching real strategy instead of recycled tactics.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Slow, organic for consistent agency growth.

• What a failed agency partnership can cost you.

• The hire that gives an agency founder their time back.

• Learning when "yes" becomes the problem.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How Slow, Organic Growth Built a 25-Year Agency

Andy was working as an IT recruiter in the nineties and found himself bored at his day job. He didn't get to build anything in that position and he had a lot of ideation urging him to do something else. Luckily, the internet offered him that chance.

He could build a website and channel his creative energy through that side project. But could he do it full time? He had no resume and no portfolio to present to a potential employer. He realized it was easier to get a client to take a chance on him than it was to convince an employer to hire him.

So he and a high school friend started building sites. The first partnership failed fast and then the second attempt grew slowly, quietly, and steadily for 25 years. The secret was not paid ads or cold outreach. It was content. Consistent publishing, useful insights, and a commitment to organic channels long before that became mainstream advice.

When Agency Partnerships Go Wrong and What It Really Costs

There are many stories of successful partnerships in the agency world, but overall the disaster stories are much more common. As Jason says, you either know the bad partner or you are the bad partner. Andy lived through one of the toughest versions of that story.

He had three partners for a while. One of them ran an unprofitable department. Responsibilities were unclear. Values were not aligned. And when it came time to clean up the mess, a poorly written shareholder agreement became a bigger problem than the partner himself.

Andy had to mortgage his home and personally lend the company money to buy out the partner. The agreement used the wrong valuation formula. The partner dragged his feet and what should have been a difficult but clean process turned into a long, expensive, emotionally draining separation.

Looking back, Andy says something most founders never admit. A handshake would have been better than the shareholder agreement they had.

The real mistakes came earlier: saying yes to a partner who did not share the same values, not slowing down long enough to evaluate the deal, and being hungry for growth and ignoring misalignment.

The Leadership Hire That Gave the Founder His Time Back

Around this time of misalignment between partners was when a long time client turned management consultant stepped in. He saw tension inside the partner group, so he moved to do a 360 review and surfaced the problems that no one wanted to say out loud. Andy was quick to spot that he would be a great addition to the agency, and so eventually, he became the CEO.

That single hire changed everything.

Andy was doing all the sales and marketing. Meetings all day. Proposals all night. Burning energy on tasks someone else should have owned years earlier.

Once his new CEO came on board, he built systems, built a sales process, hired strategists to handle qualification and scoping. Suddenly Andy had 20 hours a week of his life back.

He poured that time into content and went right into work. He doubled publishing frequency, launched a conference, wrote a book, held monthly live events, shot videos. The brand exploded. Their reach multiplied. The inbound engine went from effective to unstoppable.

This is the founder shift so many agency owners avoid. Letting go. Delegating the work that drains you. Investing your best energy into the work that grows the company, not the work that maintains it.

Saying Yes, Saying No, and Protecting Your Energy

Andy admits he still overcommits. He still says yes to speaking engagements because he loves the stage and it generates leads, even though the constant travel wears him down.

This is something many agency owners have to face. You may want the brand, speaking gigs and reach. But you also want to protect your energy so you do not turn into the hero who disappoints people when they finally meet you.

At some point, you have to choose where your yes goes. Andy chose articles, newsletters, LinkedIn, webinars, a conference, and in person events. He let go of podcasting. He narrowed his focus so he could go deeper. That discipline, more than any tactic, is what keeps his inbound engine healthy 25 years later.

The Tension Between Culture and Profit

How do you balance loyalty to your team with the need for profit and EBITDA?

Andy is still trying to figure this out. His team has an average tenure of eight years. Some team members have been there twenty. Andy cares deeply about them and their families. But agencies face moments when bonuses, salaries, utilization, and capacity collide. Where doing right by people and doing right for the business feel like competing priorities.

There is no perfect answer. But there is a direction. Take care of your people first. Trust them to help you solve the profit problems. Fix leaks. Raise rates. Tighten scope. Operate like owners. And when the agency wins, let your team win with you.

Culture breaks agencies faster than anything else. Profit can be fixed. Culture cannot be patched over.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.