Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What would you do if the merger you believed would change everything suddenly collapsed? Agency owners often dream of the big exit: the acquisition, the payday, the validation. But if you've been in this industry long enough, you know the story rarely goes as planned. Today's guest lived through the dot-com boom, a merger gone sideways, a rare "un-merger," and multiple reinventions across three decades.

Today's featured guest is an agency owner who lived through the dot com boom, a merger gone sideways, an unmerger (a rare event), and multiple reinventions over three decades. He'll talk about his journey and the lessons he's gained in resilience, clarity, and what it means to build a business that lasts.

Tom Snyder is the founder and CEO of Trivera, a Milwaukee-based agency that originally launched in 1996 under the name Website Solutions. He got his start back when tables ruled the web, Netscape Navigator was leading the browser war, and you had to explain to clients what the internet even was.

Tom's agency grew quickly through the dot com boom, became part of an early multi-agency rollup, unmerged after the dot com crash, and later rebuilt itself around strategic services, recurring revenue, and emerging technologies. Thirty years later, he has seen nearly every high and low this industry can deliver and has the scars and wisdom to match.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The roll up that seemed like a dream and the subsequent meltdown.

• The rare chance to unmerger.

• Learning to adapt to new technologies.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

The Early Days of the Web: A Front Row Seat to Digital History

Tom got into websites before most people even understood what a web browser was. He recalls visiting a friend in 1995 who showed him a website for a local jeweler. The fact that someone in Milwaukee could suddenly sell jewelry to anyone in the world blew his mind. That spark soon became Website Solutions, a one-man shop in his duplex basement that grew into a million-dollar agency within three years.

These early days were defined by scrappiness. There were no WordPress installs, no Mailchimp, no Shopify. Agencies wrote their own CMS platforms, email tools, and ecommerce systems.

For years, Trivera worked on project-based engagements. Sell a website. Build it. Launch it. Then hunt for the next one. It created a revenue roller coaster that made it hard to grow.

Then the breakthrough came when someone asked a simple question: Why are you not offering annual retained services?

Once they shifted the model, everything changed. Retainers gave them predictable cash flow, stability during downturns, and the ability to build deeper, longer-term partnerships.

Inside the Dot-Com Boom and the Rollup That Promised Millions

By the late nineties, agency rollups were happening everywhere. Big groups on the West Coast were buying smaller shops at high valuations, promising stock payouts that would multiply as the group grew. Tom's agency was acquired by one of these rollups. The offer was attractive: $1 million in stock with the expectation that it could balloon into ten million within a couple of years.

For Tom, this was more than a payday. It felt like a way to secure better opportunities for his team. Higher salaries, better benefits, more resources. All the things agency owners often think a larger parent company can provide.

But as the ink dried on the deal, the dot com crash hit. Internal battles erupted among the agency owners inside the rollup. Some wanted to scale fast and sell. Others were emotionally attached to their agencies and resisted change. As the economy collapsed, so did the plan.

When an Agency Merger Falls Apart

Tom describes the internal environment as chaos. Agencies within the rollup started blaming one another for the downturn. Some owners viewed Tom's Midwest operation as a weak link and argued it was a mistake to acquire them.

Then came the breaking point. At a Las Vegas meeting that was supposed to chart a path forward, Tom learned that he would lose control of his agency. His wife, who served as CFO, would be dismissed. His team would report to another agency owner.

This happened on September 10th.

The next morning, as they sat in their hotel room trying to process what to do, the news broke that planes had hit the World Trade Center. The world changed, and so did their priorities. In that moment of clarity, they made the decision to walk away and unmerge.

How a Rare Un-Merge Saved the Agency

Unmerging from an agency rollup almost never happens. But because the rollup was already fracturing, the leadership was surprisingly open to it. They returned most of the shares, let Tom keep a small portion, and released the original agency name. From there, Tom and his wife rebuilt everything from scratch under a new identity.

Although it felt like the right decision to make, they were still exiting what was still a financially stable operation to start from scratch, which was a scary but necessary step to take. They brainstormed names that felt Greek or Latin until they arrived at Trivera. The name itself was available only because the previous owner had just let the domain lapse. It felt like a small sign that starting over was the right move.

This reset allowed Tom to build the agency the right way. No irrational exuberance, burn rates, or pressure to sell. Just strong culture, smart financial discipline, and an eye on durable business fundamentals.

How Adapting to New Technology Helped Survive in Crisis

After the dot com crash, new technologies created fresh opportunities. SEO, email marketing, mobile, and social opened new revenue streams that helped Trivera rebound each time the economy dipped. Tom noticed a pattern. Every downturn was followed by a brand new marketing wave that rewarded the agencies willing to embrace it early.

One of the most pivotal moments came during the 2009 recession. The agency had lost clients, payroll was tight, and they needed a breakthrough. Everyone was asking about social media at the time, so Tom and his team built an event called Social Media University. They hustled for two months and ended up selling 400 tickets. The sales and sponsorship revenue kept their payroll alive and catapulted them into a new service category.

Events like this do more than create revenue. They cement authority, give an agency a story in the market, and in Tom's case, it opened doors to new clients and positioned them for the next evolution of the agency.

Letting Go of Comparison to Stay Focused on the Journey

Despite the wins, Tom admits there were years he compared his agency to others and wondered why they scaled or sold faster, especially some that got the tools from his very social media event. It is easy to feel behind when you see competitors raising money, getting acquired, or shouting big revenue numbers.

However, there's very little one can actually know about other agency's purchase deals. These stories are incomplete. You never know what the real terms were. You never know the headaches behind the scenes. And you definitely never know if they actually took money home.

Success in the agency world is rarely a straight line. It is more often a messy, winding path filled with reinventions, hard conversations, and moments when you question everything. So agency owners struggling and watching others reach new milestones should remind themselves that longevity comes from resilience, not a perfect upward curve.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

As a user, do you still use search engines or have completely defaulted to AI? How will this shift reshape the agency world? How will ads work when people are only getting the one answer they need? Most agency owners are still treating SEO like it's 2012 — optimizing keywords, buying backlinks, and praying to the Google gods. But search has already changed.

People are asking AI for answers, not Googling for links. And if you want your agency or your personal brand to stay visible in this new era, the rules are completely different. Today's featured guest will unpack the shift from SEO to AEO and why most businesses are invisible to AI without even realizing it.

Kasim Aslam is one of the world's leading voices on Answer Engine Optimization. He runs one of the largest AEO communities and leads a six person research team that has analyzed millions of AI citations to understand how large language models choose their sources.

He is also the author of The AEO Blueprint and the founder of multiple companies, including a staffing agency, a mastermind, and AEO.co. Kasim has spent the past year deep in the trenches studying how AI crawlers gather, filter, and prioritize information. When it comes to AEO, nobody has more real data.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• SEO is over. Understanding AEO.

• Why brands may get lost in LLMs.

• The quiet Google change that just changed everything in AI citations.

• The future of ads.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why SEO Is No Longer Enough: The Rise of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO)

To understand Answer Engine Optimization, we must first understand that, despite what some agencies may be saying, it is not the same as SEO. Traditional search engines prioritize links. That is why entire industries exist around buying them. In the world of LLMs, backlinks barely matter. The number one ranking factor for AI citations is schema markup. And only 12.4% of websites have clean, validated schema. In other words, nearly 90% of brands are invisible to AI crawlers, regardless of how strong their SEO is.

Schema isn't just another optimization tactic. It is the visibility layer. It is the metadata that helps LLMs understand and categorize your content. If your schema is broken or missing, AI cannot reference you even if your content is excellent. This is the equivalent of having a beautiful storefront on a street no one can find.

The second key is social mentions. In the same way SEO relied on links, AEO relies on people talking about you. For instance, a TikTok comment from someone in the agency industry saying Jason Swenk is their go-to agency guy counts as an authority signal. LLMs weigh these human mentions heavily.

Finally, a lot of the nuances on AEO are changing every day, but Kasim has learned that the real key is building authority, long-form content. That along with clear schema and personal brand is the future of staying in the conversation.

Why Personal Authority Beats Brand Authority in AI Search

One of the biggest shifts Kasim highlights is that answer engines prefer individuals. A person can write a book, earn a PhD, share opinions, create content, develop mastery, and build authority in a way brands cannot. That means generalists are in trouble. If your expertise is scattered, AI won't know how to classify you and won't choose you as an authoritative answer. Meanwhile, someone who goes deep in a single topic becomes the preferred answer. It is a shift away from corporate brand authority and toward personal authority.

Authority is not spread across a company anymore. It sits with people. Agencies that hide behind a brand name will lose visibility. Personal brands that plant a flag will win.

For agency owners, this is huge. You do not need a bigger brand. You need clear expertise tied to a real person. This is exactly why Jason positions all the Agency Mastery content around him. Personalities thrive. Brands get lost.

Where LLMs Get Their Data (and Why That Just Changed Overnight)

Kasim's research revealed that 21 percent of all AI citations once came from Reddit. YouTube followed at 18.8 percent. These platforms had deep context and raw human conversation, which LLMs love.

Then Google quietly changed everything.

Twenty two days before the interview, Google cut off 90% of the internet from AI crawlers by reducing search results from hundreds to ten. Because LLMs rely on deep search results (not the top ten), reducing the searchable depth limits the information AI can access - removing platforms like Reddit from the AI training pipeline. AI tools rely heavily on these deeper results for nuance. By limiting access, Google essentially removed Reddit and other community based sites from the AI food chain.

This change sent shockwaves through stock prices and visibility, and most people never noticed. Google is protecting the content needed to train AI because only two organizations truly own the global knowledge graph: Google and Amazon. OpenAI and the rest are crawling, not casing, the internet, which means they operate at a major disadvantage.

Google is playing statecraft. And according to Kasim, Google will win the AI race.

The Rise of Screenless Search and Voice-Driven Results

According to Kasim, we are quickly moving toward a screenless world. Eric Schmidt has said the screenless future is years away, not decades. And the younger generation is already there. Over 55 percent of people under 25 use voice instead of text. Voice queries require different markup, structure, and formatting, and only 0.3 percent of websites use voice schema.

Meanwhile, 65 percent of all searches end in zero clicks. People are asking, getting an answer, and moving on. That number does not even include the people who have stopped using search altogether and have already shifted to answer engines.

This means your future website is not for your audience. It is for AI. Kasim is rebuilding his personal site in Notion because he believes CSS-light, simple, stripped down sites will perform better for AI ingestion. We are entering a world where content is created for machines first and humans last.

How Google Gemini Is Rewriting the Future of Advertising

Here is a wild data point. When Kasim set up new Chromebooks for his kids, he discovered the default search engine was not Google. It was Gemini. Google owns Chrome. Google owns Chromebooks. Yet they replaced its primary revenue driver on its own device with a product that currently has no ads.

This tells you where the company is headed. They are rebuilding a new knowledge graph optimized for answer engines, while competitors still reply on the old search-oriented graph. And the future ad model will be nothing like what agencies grew up on.

If one answer becomes the default experience, where do ads go? How are they shown? What are users willing to tolerate? And will businesses have to give away deep content to earn visibility the same way early YouTubers and bloggers did?

These questions will reshape the entire lead generation ecosystem.

Data, Moats, and the K-Shaped Economy

The people who win in this new world are those who own data. Not tool access or workflows. Data. Custom GPTs, custom models, and proprietary knowledge bases become your moat.

We are entering a K-shaped economy. Twenty percent of people and businesses will become unstoppable because their productivity will outpace demand. Eighty percent will fall to zero. The middle disappears. That means agency owners must adapt, evolve, and lean into deep expertise.

Vibe coding (the rapid, exploratory use of AI tools) and no code platforms are accelerating this divide. Kasim's team recreated a software that normally costs ten thousand a year in a weekend. Entire SaaS categories are about to be wiped out.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Have you ever felt like enterprise clients were running your agency instead of the other way around? Buried in endless proposals no one reads, forced into rushed timelines, or watching your margins shrink every time a project drags out? Today's featured guest opens up about how he broke out of that exhausting cycle. Instead of over-delivering just to keep big clients happy, and seeing little return, he made the bold decision to focus on smaller, more committed clients who were ultimately more profitable and easier to build long-term relationships with.

He'll share what he learned about sustainable growth, including why productizing your services sounds great in theory but can actually become counterproductive when it only happens externally. He'll also explain the sales shift that changed everything: offering a low-risk, "foot-in-the-door" engagement that qualifies prospects, builds trust, and creates a smooth path into deeper service offerings.

Charlie Clark is the founder of Minty Digital, a boutique SEO agency focused on travel and lifestyle brands that originally launched in Barcelona and now operates from London. In this conversation, he'll break down the mindset, systems, and strategy needed to stop chasing validation from big brands and instead build a business where profitability, alignment, and respect come first.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why mid-market clients deliver higher profits than enterprise.

• How internal productization increases efficiency by 3X.

• How clear pricing transforms the sales cycle.

• How AI forced a new level of adaptability in SEO agencies.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

From Struggling Freelancer to Sustainable Agency Growth

After a short stint in an agency at age 22, Charlie tried to go solo before realizing he didn't yet know how to grow a business. He assumed he could do it on his own and quickly learned he wasn't ready yet. Instead of quitting, he got a job as a Digital Marketing Manager, where he could make mistakes, learn operations, and understand what actually works inside a business.

Moving to Barcelona created the perfect environment for momentum. His one-month stay turned into ten years after he landed several clients within weeks. His first retainer was €500 a month, which he laughs about now, but he admits it took years before he learned how to price correctly and move away from low-margin retainers.

Those early years were full of trial and error, but the big breakthrough was realizing that charging more wasn't always the key to profit. Charging smarter was.

Real Profit Lives in the Middle, Not the Top

One of the strongest lessons Charlie learned was that bigger retainers did not equal bigger profit. Working with enterprise clients, he saw they could easily squeeze margins, the team would end up over-delivering, and on top of it all, payment terms were a nightmare. After years, he realized these clients often cost the agency money when the team over-delivered just to keep them happy.

By contrast, the clients who had been with him since the early days, the ones paying between three and six thousand per month, were the most profitable and the most loyal. They bought the same deliverables. They stayed for years. And they matched the agency's internal processes beautifully.

Once he realized this, he moved to intentionally pursuing that sweet spot. Not the five figure monthly retainers or the cut rate ones. The predictable, operationally aligned middle where the team can deliver consistently and profitably. For Charlie, this changed everything from sales cycle speed to team alignment to lifetime value.

Internal Productization: The System that 3X Efficiency

Many agencies think productization means selling rigid packages that make you look less strategic. Charlie took the opposite approach. Internally, his team adopted highly productized systems, templates, and SOPs. They knew exactly what to do for a three thousand dollar client versus a six thousand dollar one, and how much effort each one required.

Externally, the offer still looked consultative and customized. Clients saw a broad range of what could be included, but the delivery stayed tight behind the scenes. This improved profitability, gave the team clarity, and dramatically sped up onboarding.

The biggest win? It eliminated the "start from scratch every time" problem that slows agencies down and kills margins.

How Clear Pricing Transforms the Sales Cycle

Before productization, Charlie would spend hours on proposals that often got ghosted. Once he added transparent pricing, clear expectations, and prequalification to the website, the right clients were self-selecting before the call even happened. By the time he spoke with them, they understood the price and the structure. Now he closes clients on the call or even through a single WhatsApp message.

This is the power of clarity. It shortens cycles, reduces friction, and saves enormous amounts of time for a lean team.

However, transparent pricing attracts budget mismatches, so Jason recommends removing pricing from agency's websites and switching to triage calls and the Foot-In-The-Door model. At the end of the day, there are a thousand ways to create a better sales process. What matters is that it filters, qualifies, and positions you as the advisor.

Why a Paid Discovery Offer Builds Trust and Prevents Ghosting

Both Charlie and Jason agree that a small, paid upfront engagement solves the biggest challenge in agency sales. Trust.

SEO agencies in particular fight an uphill battle here. The barrier to entry is low. There are thousands of one-person shops. Many prospects have been burned before. A small paid engagement builds confidence, shows value quickly, and prevents ghosting.

The Foot-in-the-Door offer should be simple, done live with the client, and designed to build the relationship. Not overloaded with deliverables that overwhelm the client and make them feel uneducated. When done right, it leads naturally into a larger project and then a retainer.

Charlie's Kickstart product functions the same way. For eight hundred dollars, clients get quick wins and clarity. It works because it gives prospects a safe way to test the relationship and because it positions the agency as a trusted advisor instead of a vendor chasing a proposal.

How AI Forced a New Level of Adaptability in SEO Agencies

Charlie admitted that two years ago he felt bored with SEO. Then AI exploded. Search interfaces changed. Clicks shifted. And suddenly the industry was moving faster than ever. For many agencies, this uncertainty created fear. For Charlie, it sparked energy. He leaned back in, started speaking at events, ran experiments on AI search, and brought a fresh curiosity back to himself and his team.

He described the past year as a sink-or-swim moment for agencies. The ones who coasted struggled. The ones who adapted thrived. Lean teams with solid systems could move faster and deliver more value. In his words, being nimble is now a competitive advantage.

Figuring out AI reignited his passion in the business but it was far too much to tackle alone. This is why agency owners should have a community to lean on to try to figure out changes in the industry. Your network will determine your speed of growth. Agency owners who surround themselves with peers sharing what works and what fails will survive the next wave of industry change. The ones who go alone will struggle.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Why do clients keep asking for deliverables they don't actually need? How to get them to focus on the outcome instead of the task list? Every agency owner has had clients show up asking for a website, SEO, or a million social posts, when what they actually need is something much deeper: more leads, more profit, more time back, and a business they're proud of again.

Today's featured guest broke down how he built an 11-year-old shop that delivers exactly that. We dig into why small businesses really hire agencies, why "selling SEO" is a trap, and how simplifying complex work can make your agency more profitable, more trusted, and a hell of a lot easier to run.

Niecolas Biggi, Founder of The Gorilla Agency a full-service Oregon digital agency that helps small businesses achieve their marketing goals. After applying to 31 agencies and hearing absolutely nothing back, he decided if no one would hire him, he'd simply build the place he wished existed. Eleven years later, his agency helps small businesses fall in love with their companies again by delivering marketing that feels personal, purposeful, and rooted in truth—not hype.

In this interview, we'll discuss:

• Why clients don't want SEO and what small business are really buying.

• How radical simplicity makes agencies more profitable.

• Walking away from big clients to make your agency stronger.

• How AI is changing client expectations.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Clients Don't Actually Want SEO (And What They're Really Buying from Agencies)

Niecolas knows why his clients first reach out and he understands that, in reality, no one wants SEO. No one wants a website. No one wants a content calendar. What they want is for their phone to ring. They want predictable revenue and to stop feeling behind.

Basically, they want a business that finally looks and performs the way they imagined when they started it.

Hence, when Niecolas sits with a new client, he doesn't take their request at face value. He keeps pulling the thread:

• Why do you want that?

• What are you really trying to fix?

• What's happening behind the scenes that made you reach out today?

By the time he gets to the core problem, the tactical service almost never matches the thing they originally asked for. And that's where trust is built—showing clients the real path to their desired outcome, not the task list they think they need.

As he puts it: Services are the toolkit. Outcomes are the reason you pick up the tools.

How Radical Simplicity Makes Agencies More Profitable and Improves Client Trust

During client meetings, Niecolas strives to strip away the complexity agencies tend to hide behind. Clients don't want a masterclass in keyword density or a dissertation-length PDF they'll never read. They want clarity.

To him, the best operators and the best salespeople think like teachers. Teachers take complicated ideas and make them accessible. They speak in a way a fifth grader can understand, because simplicity builds confidence, and confidence builds buy-in.

Inside his own agency, this shows up in the way he trains his team. No silos. No "not my job." Everyone learns how every part of the system works, from content, SEO, design, dev, and strategy. That shared understanding creates respect, efficiency, and a culture where no one feels like they're building in the dark.

Everyone in his team is taught that no one is above anyone and they're all running the machine together. It's a mindset that creates accountability among the team and helps the client understand exactly what they're paying for.

Why Saying No to Big Clients Can Make Your Agency Stronger

Every agency owner has a moment where the "big" client forces them to rethink everything. For Niecolas, it was early on, when a client offered him more money than he even asked for ($10k a month) and three months later, he fired the client.

On paper, it was a dream account. In practice, it drained the team, misaligned with their process, and became the catalyst for rebuilding the agency from the ground up.

He spent two years refining every process—on-page and off-page SEO, content creation, design systems, communication workflows—all centered around one thing: making sure clients always know where their money is going and how it's working.

Most agencies duct-tape their operations when things get messy instead of rebuilding the underlying, broken system. Niecolas rebuilt his foundation truly believing that all business owners need is for someone to create systems, truly listen to them, and help them articulate what they do for their clients.

Authenticity Converts (And Your Clients Need Your Help to Show It)

Niecolas's wife unknowingly became the perfect case study for modern buyer behavior. Before choosing anything (restaurants, local services, events) she checks:

• Reviews

• Menus

• FAQs

• Photos

• Location

• Details

• User experience

• Credibility

That's what most customers are doing, and the standard Niecolas sets for his clients. He wants to work with businesses that engage with clients and answer their questions, show their work with real photos, tell compelling stories, show proof, have a clean, intuitive website.

If it doesn't pass what Niecolas calls "the wife test" — if a business doesn't have clear answers, real photos, social proof, strong UX, and transparent information — it doesn't ship.

And the same goes for exclusivity: Niecolas refuses to work with two companies in the same industry and service area. He wants to make one the best, not compete against himself for small wins.

How AI Is Changing Client Expectations and Why It Won't Replace Agencies

Niecolas sees AI from both angles: the opportunity and the threat.

On one hand, AI makes clients think everything should be instant and $500. He's already had clients send him AI-generated instructions like they're firing off tasks to a robot. The danger isn't AI itself but rather clients misunderstanding what real strategy, design, content, and user experience actually require.

But the other side is where he sees massive upside. AI removes the repetitive, thankless tasks that bog agencies down. It gives teams more room to think, solve, and create. It lets agencies deliver more value, not less, if they use it correctly.

AI doesn't replace strategy and, more importantly, it doesn't replace the human connection that actually closes deals.

Your network is your edge. Tools evolve but human trust, real expertise, and the ability to guide clients through complexity—that doesn't.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Would you ever walk away from a "dream job" to start over from scratch? And if you've spent years building a career inside big brands, does it ever feel like it might be too late to launch your own agency? Most people talk about leaving their corporate job to chase something bigger. Very few actually do it, and even fewer jump without a parachute. Today's featured guest is one of those rare ones. After nearly two decades leading social, content, and influencer teams for household brands, he walked away from his so called dream job to start his own shop without any safety net. Today, he calls himself a brand guy who happens to own an agency.

Eric Gray is the owner of Maverick Content Studio, a twelve person, social-first agency for Fortune 500 brands. After a long and successful career in corporate, where he spent eighteen years building high performing social and content teams for companies like Universal Parks & Resorts, Eric realized he did not want the future he saw in front of him. He left Universal with two months of savings and zero clients. His story is a blueprint for leaders wondering whether to leave corporate and build something of their own

Today his team works with brands like Advent Health, Winn-Dixie, and Travel + Leisure, helping them build audience, loyalty, and relevance through social-first content.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why target Fortune 500 brands?

• Why most agencies fail at building their own brand.

• Leaning on the power of personal brands.

• The hardest challenge of growing a young agency.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Walking Away from the Corporate Dream Job

At age forty-one, Eric had success on paper but a growing dissatisfaction in real life. He was leading big teams, holding a prestigious role, and doing work others envied. But he felt stuck inside a corporate machine that limited purpose and impact.

Although he's thankful for the time he spent in that world, he didn't believe he was living his full purpose inside an organization with lots of bureaucracy. With the support of his family and his pastor, Eric decided he didn't want to get to his later years wishing he had taken more risks and took the jump to find out what could happen if he bet on himself.

Leaving was messy, scary, and absolutely not the playbook move. No freelancing ramp up. No contracted clients. It was no tidy transition. Yet he trusted that his experience and network would open the next chapter. Looking back, it did.

Why Target Fortune 500 Brands?

Most new agency founders start small. Eric went in the opposite direction. He targeted enterprise brands from day one because that is where his expertise lived. He had already built the blueprint inside Universal Parks & Resorts and believed he could help other brands treat social as more than an afterthought.

Eric knew many enterprise brands still underinvest in social. They focus on one big campaign or hero asset while ignoring the loyalty and connection that is built through consistent storytelling. His agency's entire model revolves around what he calls the connection strategy. It is the belief that brands win when they create emotional relevance around the stories customers already care about.

Furthermore, large brands have large scopes, which also means you do not need forty clients. You just need the right five. That became a core advantage as they started growing.

Building the Early Client List Through Relationships

Eric did not cold call or blast DMs. He leaned into what he had spent years building. A strong network with strong relationships. Most of their early clients came from people who had worked with Eric before, or from friends of those people inside other major brands. Big companies talk to each other more than you think.

This doesn't mean it was easy for them. They still have a lot of work to do to break through. But if you invest in your network before you need it, it becomes your biggest shortcut when you step into entrepreneurship.

Why Most Agencies Fail at Building Their Own Brand

But Eric points out that almost no agencies truly build their own brand. They hide behind their walls and hope referrals save them. Others talk about themselves, focusing mainly on their people, process, and portfolio. Meanwhile they tell clients to produce consistent content, invest in story, and build an audience.

When Eric launched Maverick, he refused to be another guy who leaves a corporate job and posts the generic LinkedIn announcement. He started building his personal brand alongside the agency's brand from day one, and worked with his wife to make his agency look and feel much larger than its actual humble beginnings from their home offce. Perception matters if you want to enter rooms above your weight class.

The Power of a Personal Brand

Eric leaned into his background in sports radio and launched the Radical Content podcast. Within a few months he secured major guests like the former CMO of Chick-fil-A, the head of digital for NASCAR, and leaders from Crocs and other major brands. Those interviews became relationships. Those relationships became visibility. And that visibility opened doors for the agency.

The agency's channels became secondary to Eric's personal channels. Not because the company brand did not matter, but because personal brand builds trust faster than corporate messaging.

Systems, Volume, and Practicing What You Preach

Eric put serious resources into his content system. It started rough, with a single producer who did not fully work out. But it evolved into an eight person content ecosystem producing weekly episodes, daily clips, statics, and text posts.

He treats his own brand as the test kitchen for the strategies they deploy for clients. When you do that, the content feels authentic and the results are real. For him, if you stay in the background and don't talk about who you are and what you do, you're losing valuable opportunities to build your audience. You should be the guinea pig for everything you sell.

The Hardest Challenge of Growing a Young Agency

Two types of struggles hit new founders: agency struggles and the first time entrepreneur struggles.

1. On the agency side, Eric is unrelenting on talent. He will not hire someone just because they have experience. Their standards are high, which means the search takes longer. Orlando is growing but not a major market for high level social and content talent. They once received nine hundred applicants for a creative director role.

2. On the founder side, the hardest challenge is mental. Building a company that feeds twelve families is a heavy responsibility. The expectations you have for where you think you should be often do not match where you actually are. That gap can mess with your head.

Eric uses a list of personal non negotiables to stay mentally sharp: hard morning workouts, time with faith, reading goals daily, taking short breaks during the day, reviewing priorities, and going to bed on time. The last one is the hardest for him. But like most discipline problems, skipping the basics is usually what leads to feeling off.

Why Agency Entrepreneurship Requires a Long Game Mindset

For Eric, entrepreneurship is staring the hard thing in the face and moving forward anyway, which is where his non-negotiables come in. For his part, Jason has always treated entrepreneurship as a game. Sometimes you do everything right and still get hit with a bad roll of the dice. The goal is not perfection. It is persistence.

The memories you keep are rarely the easy seasons. They are the nights you and your team fought through the hard stuff. For this reason, his advice for agency owners is to have fun along the way. Don't wait until your kids are grown or your agency is sold to live. Make the journey the part you enjoy.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

What if growth doesn't make things easier but actually just raises the stakes? Agency life looks glamorous from the outside, but the real growth usually starts in the messy middle. Today's featured guest just wanted to build something of her own, but quickly learned that growth means the challenges get harder, instead of easier, and that your client and team retention will always be the best measures of success, since it means you've managed to build a business that has a real impact on clients and a culture people never want to leave.

She'll share the pressure she felt as the agency got bigger, how she learned to celebrate the little wins, and how she built a culture that has truly worked as a strategic advantage.

Elyse Lupin is the president and founder of Elysium Marketing Group, a full-service agency specializing in food and franchise marketing. With more than a decade of running the business, she has scaled from a new mom charging a thousand bucks for her first client to leading a well known, franchise-focused marketing team recognized for expertise, execution, and a culture clients genuinely enjoy working with.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Why growth gets harder as your agency scales.

• 2 metrics that actually predict agency success.

• How culture became her agency's competitive advantage.

• The importance of letting go instead of babysitting tasks.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

How Mentoring Can Be the Push You Need

Elyse started her agency during what most people would consider the absolute worst time to make a career change. She had a newborn, a mortgage, and a job that drained her every morning as she left her child in daycare. That friction reached a breaking point.

A mentor tossed out traditional job options, but Elyse surprised even herself when she said, "I just want to start my own thing." Instead of talking her out of it, that mentor became her first client. It's one of those decisions you look back on and realize how thin the line is between staying stuck and building something you love.

In the early days, she charged way too little, as nearly all agency owners do for those first engagements. But like she said, ignorance can be a gift. When you are early and scrappy, you move fast and celebrate every small win because you have no idea what's coming next.

Why Growth Gets Harder, Not Easier

After eleven years, Elyse said she was shocked by how the difficulty of running an agency evolves. Things do get easier in some ways, but each stage comes with a new complexity level.

As the agency grew, so did the pressure to hire better people, keep up quality, retain clients, and juggle new demands that never existed in the early days. You go from hands-on fulfillment to team building to culture shaping to visionary leadership. Each level is a different skill set and none of it is simple.

Scaling is not a victory lap. It is a longer, more strategic version of the same game you started with: solve the next problem without losing momentum.

For Elyse, it's all about stopping to celebrate the little wins and let herself enjoy watching her team crush new challenges.

2 Metrics That Predict Agency Success: Client and Team Retention

A lot of agency owners fall into the trap of measuring success by employee count or top line revenue. Elyse prefers to track retention. She considers it far more meaningful.

Clients only stick around if they are getting results and some of her clients have been with her agency since the beginning. Employee retention matters just as much, because no amount of growth means anything if the team delivering the work is burning out or bailing.

Even during COVID, when most of their food clients disappeared overnight, Elyse's agency found a way to pivot into B2B, protect the team, and still grow. Not at the same pace, but still upward. That speaks to culture, resilience, and leadership.

In the end, what really matters is how happy you are in the business, whether or not your team is happy, and how profitable the business actually is. These are the things that will guarantee you stay in business and not start to resent it.

How Culture Becomes an Agency's Competitive Advantage

Elyse's agency has a spirit week. costume day. concert tshirt day. team jersey day. They joke about team members hearing her excitement through the office walls. But behind the fun is something serious. A happy team performs better, stays longer, and delivers higher quality work.

She also implemented rituals that reinforce positivity and growth. Every Friday on remote days, they kick off with Wins of the Week. Team members spotlight others who went above and beyond, which forces everyone to pause and recognize progress.

Then there is Elysium Advancement, a bi-weekly internal training where someone teaches a new AI tool or system. It keeps the whole agency sharp without overwhelming everyone with the nonstop flood of new tech.

Finding the Balance Between a Remote and In-Person Team

Elyse's agency is in office Monday through Thursday and remote on Fridays. She believes their productivity is higher together, especially since half the business is design focused. Instead of 15 email threads, they solve problems in 30 second conversations.

Some teams thrive remote. Others thrive together. The important thing is knowing which one your agency needs. For them, an in-person environment helps them move faster and design better.

Letting Go: Building Leaders Instead of Babysitting Tasks

Most agency founders struggle with this. Elyse has built three strong department heads who now own their areas. Sure, she still has a hand in more than she probably should, but the structure is finally allowing her to think bigger instead of babysitting tasks.

She also knows what her team would tell her to stop doing. Being too loud in the office. Which, as problems go, is one of the funnier ones.

The Power of Picking a Niche

Years ago, Elyse heard this very podcast's advice about niching down and resisted it. Like most agency owners, she felt her client base was too broad to narrow down.

After COVID, she finally made the leap and put a stake in the ground around franchise marketing. She got her Certified Franchise Executive credential, doubled down on franchising events, and made franchise marketing a core part of the brand.

And the decision paid off immediately. Franchise systems want a partner who understands their world, their FDDs, their local store marketing needs, and their complexity. Her agency became that partner. And with that clarity came authority, opportunity, and recognition.

Niching did not reduce her client pool. It strengthened her position and made her easier to hire.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

AI is changing the agency landscape faster than most owners can keep up with. Tools are popping up daily, clients are asking if rates should drop, and your team is either fired up or freaked out. Today's featured guest talks about what it takes to build an agency that thrives in a world obsessed with shiny new tech, where the edge is not more tools. It is better leadership, human connection, and an incubator mindset that keeps them ahead without drowning in the noise.

Michael Davern is the CEO of Incept, an AI-enhanced, digital-first agency that has been around for a decade. Today, his agency blends automation, machine learning, and human-centered strategy to help enterprise clients grow with clarity and smart execution.

He is an early adopter who still believes the real edge is human connection and wants to encourage agency owners to really think about who should lead.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• AI-enhanced vs. AI-first: what actually creates agency value.

• Leading an agency through rapid AI change.

• Why human-first agencies win in the long run.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Evolving from a Specific Niche to a Full Service Agency

Before agency life, Michael spent years in corporate America and even longer in the music industry as an artist development rep. That career went up in flames when the label collapsed and no one got paid. After a brief return to corporate, he approached his now business partner with an idea to sell text message marketing, and suddenly he was an entrepreneur learning the agency game the hard way. Early on he chased small business clients with $49 starter packages and cheesy platinum tiers. Nobody wanted it. The market did not understand text marketing yet and the value was unclear.

Everything changed when an enterprise vendor in the Medicare insurance space let them into their workflow. Overnight texting became a revenue driver. That win opened the door to more enterprise relationships and pushed them to expand far beyond their original niche. What started as a simple vendor relationship ballooned into a full service digital agency. With time, growth came from necessity and opportunity, not a master plan. Michael admits they were often too early to the game, but that curiosity and experimentation kept them alive long enough to get good.

AI-Enhanced vs. AI-First: What Actually Creates Agency Value

Plenty of agencies slap "AI-first" on their website. Michael prefers to say "AI-enhanced" since "AI-first" implies handing the keys to robots or machines. That is not what his agency does.

Instead they use AI to enhance execution. They were early with automation, early with machine learning through the IBM Watson test program, and early with programmatic bidding when DSPs were still new. Those experiments shaped how they work today. Now, they use all this knowledge to save money, time, and drive better results for clients.

Clients are not paying for prompts or tools. AI lets the team save time, move faster, and stay in the lab testing new options without drowning in busywork. In Michael's view, agencies are not competing on deliverables anymore. They are competing on thinking.

Navigating the AI Gold Rush Without Losing Your Mind

There is a tool for everything now and most of them promise the world and deliver nothing. Michael believes the real threat is not AI taking jobs. It is crappy tools cluttering decision making and distracting agency owners from what matters.

To keep his team sharp, he sets an AI budget for every employee at his agency. Everyone is encouraged to experiment, explore, and bring ideas back to the incubator. On Fridays, they compare notes. What worked. What flopped. What needs more testing. That culture of curiosity is what keeps them out in front rather than scrambling to catch up.

Leadership in the Age of Rapid Change

Nineteen months ago, Michael made a call. The company was going all in on AI enhancement. He sat the team down and said, "This is where we are heading." If anyone was uncomfortable, they could talk privately or get help transitioning to a different job. Not one person left.

Clarity breeds confidence. When owners waffle or delay, their team feels it. When owners point the ship and support the crew, people dig in. Michael's team embraced experimentation because they were given structure, purpose, and room to contribute.

And because of that leadership, his agency now runs on flat rate pricing tied to outcomes. They killed the old hourly model and their clients love them for it.

Human-First Agencies Always Win the Long Game

When was the last time you met in person with any of your top five clients? That's the type of effort they'll remember. Michael's team meets every top client in person at least quarterly. Their average client lifetime is just under seven years, which is unheard of when the industry average is barely over a year. Real relationships create real retention. When you have shared a meal, a drink, and actual time together, you are not just a vendor. You are a partner. And partners do not get replaced by the next AI First agency trying to undercut your price.

The real advantage for your agency will be transparency and the ability to provide a personalized service. AI will give you more time to work on strategy, but you still have to offer the best client experience you can. Ultimately, clients are paying for more brain and less execution, "and doesn't everyone want that?" Michael asks.

Choosing the Right Clients and Protecting Your Sanity

Another theme Michael returns to is knowing when to say no. Early on, every agency chases whales. The bigger the better. Then you land one and realize it might sink the whole boat.

Maturity is learning to pass on the wrong fish or hand them off to someone who is better built for it. Agencies do not need hundreds of clients. They need the right fraction of the market that values what they do. When you protect your focus, your retention goes up and your stress goes down.

Michael's agency grows steadily because they stack clients instead of scrambling to replace them. The only clients they lose are the ones who stop paying their bills.

Building a Culture of Innovation Without Burning Out

Agencies talk a big game about innovation, but most owners are stuck riding a bike with square wheels and they refuse to get off, Michael says.

This is the trap most agency owners fall into. They are too busy to innovate, too stuck to delegate, and too overwhelmed to lead. For him, the answer is simple. Get off the bike. Set the direction, and build the space for experimentation, because the future is coming whether you want it or not.

Who Should Lead AI Inside an Agency

Who should lead experimentation when the owner is overwhelmed?

Michael believes someone has to claim the role, plant a stake, and move. At his agency, he oversees the incubator, but several team members drive the work. Your lead developer will experiment with different tools than your creative director. Your strategist will explore different workflows than your media buyer. Give them a budget. Give them a purpose. Give them ownership.

The biggest mistake is waiting for someone else to figure it out. Agencies that delay will be crushed by owners who are willing to get to work and figure this technology out.

Follow your curiosity. For agency owners stepping into that role, Michael suggests absorbing everything you can and staying curious. And for those who are further down in the ladder but still want to lead experimentation with new technologies: speak up and volunteer. If you're in a culture where that experimentation is not embraced, then maybe it's time to leave.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

If your inbound pipeline dries up tomorrow, do you have a channel that can refill it on demand? Every agency owner needs at least one reliable way to attract new leads when things slow down. Today's guest doubled down on a podcast as his inbound engine, and it paid off big.

But launching your first episode is just the beginning. The real growth comes from getting your ideal clients as guests, creating a conversation that builds connection (not just content), and staying consistent long enough to earn momentum. He'll break down how to find the right niche, build authority through partnerships, and turn podcasting into a powerful inbound system that keeps quality leads coming in on autopilot.

Chase Clymer is the co-founder of Electric Eye, a Shopify Plus partner agency specializing in conversion rate optimization (CRO) and e-commerce growth strategy. Since 2016, he and his team have been helping direct-to-consumer brands optimize their digital storefronts to drive measurable results. Beyond his client work, Chase also hosts the Honest Ecommerce podcast, where he interviews founders and shares unfiltered lessons on what it takes to grow an online brand.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• On his strategic partnership with Shopify.

• Podcasting as a business development engine.

• The key to consistently booking great guests.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

From Touring Musician to E-Commerce Marketer

Before entering the agency world, Chase was a touring musician in a pop punk band. The road life didn't pay the bills, so he began experimenting with photography, design, and digital marketing, all skills that eventually laid the foundation for his agency.

Towards the end of his music career, Chase's future co-founder Sean approached him with a few freelance projects. They quickly found themselves with six clients, and a lot of questions about taxes, pricing, and structure.

The early chaos of being creators first and business owners second forced them to learn fast, especially when it came to how to position themselves, how to deliver results, and ultimately, how to specialize. As Chase puts it, "We realized if you can validate the results you're getting for people, they're going to be happier to pay you." That mindset led them toward e-commerce, where success is measurable and client satisfaction is tied directly to sales metrics.

How Strategic Platform Partnerships (Like Shopify) Accelerate Agency Growth

One of the biggest accelerators for his agency was its partnership with Shopify. When the agency first started, they were platform-agnostic, working across WordPress and other technologies. But after joining Shopify's Partner Program, Chase and his team found something rare — an actual human on the other end of the email. That support led to event invitations, collaboration opportunities, and eventually a deep specialization that positioned them as trusted experts.

Chase credits much of their success to that early alignment. "We just happened to be in the right place at the right time," and the lesson for him was: pick your ecosystem wisely and go all in. He advises other agency owners to double down on one technology or niche rather than trying to be everything to everyone. "If your roof is leaking, you don't hire a general contractor, you hire a roofer," he says. It's the kind of clarity that will help you see real growth.

Does this mean you should only aim to partner with Shopify if you're in the ecommerce niche? Not at all. Chase recognizes that part of their success story came from having found Shopify at its early stages. This allowed the agency to grow alongside them and unlock more opportunities.

Using a Podcast as a Scalable Inbound Marketing Channel

For many agencies, lead generation is an uphill battle. For Chase, it became a creative outlet that turned into a consistent revenue driver. In 2019, he launched his podcast, Honest Ecommerce, as a way to avoid writing blogs. But over time, it became a cornerstone of his agency's inbound and relationship strategy.

Chase now uses the podcast to connect with ideal clients by inviting them on as guests. Instead of cold outreach, he reaches out on LinkedIn to CEOs of brands he admires, offering them a platform to share their stories. That invitation often leads to partnerships, friendships, and often clients. "You're not starting off on your back foot," he explains. "You're building a genuine relationship."

Chase also uses the podcast to gain access to industry events. With a media pass, he's able to attend conferences, host panels, and meet prospects in person. Once relationships are formed, his back-end systems, from automated follow-up emails to segmented nurture lists, keep his agency top of mind until the timing aligns for collaboration.

Proven Outreach Strategies to Book High-Value Podcast Guests

When Chase comes across a brand doing something interesting, he doesn't pitch them services. Instead of positioning himself as another agency trying to sell, he looks to position himself as a platform offering value first.

Once a potential guest accepts, Chase sets up a short 15-minute pre-interview call that he personally conducts. He uses this session to walk them through what to expect, answer any questions, and — most importantly — build rapport. As he puts it, "More time in the paint (more reps) makes the second conversation a lot easier." That small investment of time pays off, turning what could be a stiff Q&A into a relaxed, real conversation when recording day comes. This pre-call also helps him assess whether the guest is a fit for his audience and gently coach less experienced founders on how to tell their story in an engaging way.

Then, before the episode goes live, he'll sometimes nudge guests to check out a few existing episodes from Honest Ecommerce. This helps them get familiar with the tone and flow of his show. Ultimately, the goal for Chase is always to create a cool piece of content. Anything else that may come from the relationship is a bonus.

Why Consistency Is the Real Growth Lever in Podcast Lead Generation

Chase believes all agency owners who are serious about making their business a success need to start building the inbound channels that produce on-demand leads. In his case, starting the podcast was the move that changed everything for his agency.

However, podcasting will take time to produce results and requires consistency. Many business owners start a podcast and then give up after a couple of months. Publishing your first episode is only the beginning. What follows is a commitment to showing up week after week. "That is half the battle," he says.

Podcasting, like SEO, compounds over time. The relationships built and the authority earned don't pay off instantly, but when they do, they create an inbound machine that's difficult to replicate.

Pro Tip: Chase also believes podcasting can be a great tool in staying top of mind for clients and being a better strategic partner. He even does bonus episodes with partners and has a separate newsletter for partners he sends once a month with news of what the agency has been up to (attending a conference, launching a new website, etc). It usually produces at least a few referrals.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

If you're one of the many owners concerned that AI will end the agency model, what are you doing to stay relevant? How are you building lasting relationships that help clients see your value beyond executing tasks? Artificial intelligence, automation, and enterprise-level change have everyone in the agency world wondering what's next. However, agencies have managed to stay relevant with past technological disruptions and the answer has always been: you need to adapt.

Today's featured guest has scaled his business through seven iterations for over fourteen years by being willing to adapt to change, and the AI era is no exception. He'll unpack how agencies can stay relevant when technology, data, and client expectations are evolving faster than ever. He also talks about the importance of partnership-based client relationships and why soft skills (not just smart systems) are the real differentiator in the next decade.

Ben Childs is the President of Digital Reach, a full-stack B2B marketing consultancy serving SaaS, cybersecurity, AI, and data-driven technology clients. With deep expertise in paid media, SEO, RevOps, and digital experience, Ben's team helps enterprise companies integrate their marketing, data, and operations to drive real revenue growth. Since launching in 2011, Digital Reach has evolved through multiple "versions" as it adapted to the changing marketing landscape, becoming one of the most respected players in modern B2B marketing.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• The soft skills edge that outperforms AI.

• Why you should start running toward the problem.

• The power of in-person connections in a remote-forward industry.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

How Agencies Can Stay Relevant in AI Revolution

At a recent Ad Week event, Ben heard a fellow agency leader predict that all agencies would be "dead in two years" because of AI. Her point: enterprise companies are developing their own language models and internal data systems, cutting agencies out of the picture.

Ben does admit this is true. However, his outlook is more optimistic, seeing several possible solutions. Should agencies be partnering with third-party data providers? Should they adjust their skill set? In his view, the need for strategic expertise and technical problem-solving won't disappear anytime soon. The agencies that thrive will be those who adapt to new tools while deepening their human value—helping clients navigate complexity, not just execute tasks.

"The reality," Ben explains, "is that hiring people to help you solve hard problems isn't going away. Business is always changing, and that's a huge opportunity for agency owners willing to think and integrate, not panic."

Why Soft Skills Outperform AI in the Agency World

As agencies evolve, the differentiator isn't going to be who can use AI faster, it's who can understand and support people better.

When it comes to enterprise clients, marketing execution has become table stakes. What truly sets a great agency apart is the ability to navigate organizational politics, manage internal friction, and act as a trusted advisor inside complex companies.

"We're armchair psychologists half the time," he laughs. "Our clients know we're good at SEO or paid media. What they really need is someone who helps them get things approved, makes their life easier, and has their back when things get tough."

Soft problems will never go away and, Ben argues, may even increase in value when the execution problems potentially become commoditized. Agencies that ignore human connection will lose, just like traditional firms that refused to go digital twenty years ago. In the end, the "people part" never goes out of style.

Adapting Your Agency: Lessons from 7 Business Iterations

Ben started Digital Reach in 2011 using his grandmother's dresser as a desk and charging $200 a month for Google Ads management. Since then, the agency has reinvented itself seven times—each evolution aligning to new markets, services, and technologies.

From scrappy freelancer to B2B consultancy, Ben's philosophy has stayed the same: build, learn, and change before you're forced to.

"We're on Digital Reach 7.0 in 14 years," he says. "We'll probably hit version 12.0 in the next ten. You can't just ride your old business idea into Valhalla. Some people will always be better at adapting, and that will never change."

WhyPartnership (Not Performance) Determines Client Retention

When agencies talk about "partnership," it often sounds like marketing fluff. But Ben explains that true partnership is built on trust and reliability, not just metrics.

Most clients don't fire agencies because of poor performance; they leave because of broken trust, poor communication, or lack of understanding.

"When clients say, 'You don't get our business,' that's when numbers start to matter," Ben explains. "If they can't trust you when things go wrong, you're done."

Ben understands that helping clients solve internal problems like procurement delays or team politics can do more to build loyalty than a great campaign. Running toward the problem, taking ownership, and communicating transparently are the fastest ways to strengthen relationships that last across multiple companies.

Build Client Trust Fast by Running Toward the Problem

Other than delivering results and making your clients' lives easier, Ben believes another powerful way to build trust is not being afraid to admit your mistakes and being quick to fix them. Honesty builds staying power. When agencies take responsibility for missteps and present a clear plan for fixing them, clients respond with respect, not resentment.

Do not avoid the problem. In fact, you should run towards the problem and face the situation head on. You'll get more benefit of the doubt from clients with this attitude. Ben's team once led a client call with bad news—the metrics were down. Instead of hiding it, they explained what went wrong, what they learned, and how they'd adjust. "The client was ready to run through a wall for us after that," he says. "They loved that we owned it."

The Power of In-Person Connection in a Remote-Forward Industry

As agencies lean more into remote work, Ben calls for agencies to make an effort to meet with clients in person: "In-person will always be in vogue." It'll help your clients understand who you are, rather than just staring at your picture on Zoom, and trying to form a true connection.

He encourages owners to set a clear revenue threshold for when to invest in face-to-face meetings—whether that's a kickoff, annual review, or shared conference. When clients meet you over pizza and a drink, it transforms the relationship from vendor to partner.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training

Is your agency growing fast but still running without the right structure or leadership team to sustain that growth? If too many people are reporting directly to you, it's a clear sign you've outgrown your current setup. But building that next layer of leadership isn't as simple as promoting your top performers. Without a clear strategy, those well-intentioned promotions can backfire, causing confusion, turnover, and setbacks that stall your agency's momentum.

Today's featured guest learned that lesson firsthand. After experiencing a year of costly turnover caused by the wrong management moves, he came away with a better understanding of what real leadership development looks like. In this episode, he'll share what it takes to scale beyond seven figures, the mistakes that nearly derailed his agency's growth, and the key shifts that helped him build a stronger, more sustainable business.

Brandon Rost is the founder and CEO of be Marketing, a Pennsylvania-based advertising agency that helps brands grow through creative, digital, and media strategies. Over the past decade and a half, Brandon has built his agency from a solo operation into a multi-million-dollar powerhouse by focusing on relationships, resourcefulness, and relentless problem-solving.

He's proof that you don't need to have all the answers when you start, just the willingness to figure it out along the way.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• How to reinvest profits strategically to scale your agency sustainably.

• Why promoting top performers doesn't already create effective leaders.

• The KPI's and systems that improved profit and cash flow.

• The mindset shift that turns fast growth into longterm success.

Subscribe

Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio

Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Being Resourceful Is the Key to Building an Agency

Brandon didn't plan on running an agency. At the time, he was managing social media for a corporate job and bartending on the side when a PR firm owner offered him a shot at managing her clients' social accounts. What started as ten small accounts quickly snowballed into a full-time business.

Like most early-stage entrepreneurs, he had no idea what he was doing at first. He sent invoices in Word documents, figured out HR and finance on the fly, and said "yes" to every opportunity—then learned how to deliver later. It wasn't glamorous, but it worked.

That resourcefulness became his superpower. As anyone who has grown a business can tell you, success comes from resourcefulness - not knowing everything. You don't have to know everything right now. Just figure it out and make it work.

Scaling Up: Investing Every Dollar Back In the Agency

For the first few years, Brandon kept bartending to cover his bills and put every dollar the agency made back into growth. That discipline gave him the runway to build a real company without debt or short-term panic.

He hired his first part-time employee within a year, went full-time around year two, and hit seven figures by year four in 2014. However, crossing the million-dollar mark didn't come with confetti and fireworks. It came with more responsibility, more moving parts, and a steeper learning curve.

"Everyone thinks hitting a million feels different," Brandon said. "It doesn't. It just brings on more work." Instead of waiting for that milestone to magically change things, focus on building the right foundation so the business can continue to grow without you doing everything. Make it a point to continue to delegate part of that workload every quarter, and after a couple of years, you'll find you've gotten your freedom back.

Learning to Lead and Let Go: Building a Leadership Team

Brandon learned the hard way that leading people requires a completely different skill set than landing clients. As the agency grew, he at one point had seventeen people reporting to him and eventually realized it just wasn't sustainable.

It was the right moment to create different positions that would oversee different departments. However, his strategy was flawed at first; "We elevated people just to elevate them," he said. "And it set us back a year." He never stopped to ask whether or not those employees were ready or even suited for management roles. As a result, they dealt with a year of turnover followed by slowly getting back on track.

The lesson for Brandon was: put the right people in the right seats, and don't assume your best technician wants to—or should—manage others. Leadership isn't a promotion; it's a whole new role.

Knowing Your Numbers and Turning Chaos Into Profitability

Once the business hit its stride, Brandon turned his focus to profitability. He shared how the agency once got caught in a dangerous cash flow loop of collecting Google ad payments for clients and effectively becoming a bank instead of a marketing firm.

After untangling that, his team started tracking key KPIs more closely:

• AGI (Agency Gross Income) in the 55–60% range

• Net profit around 10–12%

• Payroll around 33% of AGI

By simplifying operations and separating client media costs from agency revenue, they stabilized cash flow and built a healthier margin. Simply put, what you measure improves and, for Brandon, that meant finally treating the numbers as a steering wheel instead of a rearview mirror.

Sales: The Last Most Agency Owners Are Ready to Hang Up

Even after 15 years, Brandon still handles most of the sales himself. It's something he admits he should've delegated earlier, but building a sales team isn't as easy as hiring a "radio guy" and hoping they sell.

After two failed attempts, Brandon realized the problem wasn't the salespeople but rather the lack of systems. Now, the new plan is to support the team with brand marketing, create a "sales tackle box" full of proven client stories, and build repeatable processes for outreach, follow-up, and closing.

You'll always be the best salesperson until you document what's in your head. With the right structure and stories in place, a sales team can finally scale what made the founder successful in the first place.

What Scaling Fast Taught Him About Patience and Culture

Looking back, Brandon said the biggest surprise was how much patience real growth takes—and how easy it is to lose sight of culture while scaling fast. Whether it was figuring out HR policies, managing team dynamics, or setting boundaries for office events, every new level came with a new layer of learning.

He now focuses on balance: growing deliberately, empowering leaders, and making sure the culture that got them here doesn't get lost along the way. "We've learned to grow smarter, not faster," he said.

Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset?

Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.