Sarah Bacaller is the editor of 'Apostate: Stories of Deconversion.' In this conversation Sarah and Will explore themes of apostasy, the fragility of fundamentalist faith, and the importance of listening to personal stories of deconstruction and/or loss of faith. They discuss the cultural contexts of Christianity in the US and Australia, the challenges of engaging with differing beliefs, and the need for compassionate dialogue. They delve into the complexities of interpreting religious texts, the diversity within Christianity, and the significance of compassion and kindness in fostering human dignity. The dialogue emphasises the need for openness to learning and understanding others' experiences, ultimately advocating for a more inclusive and respectful approach to spirituality and community.

Sarah's website: https://www.sarahbacaller.com/

Buy 'Apostate: Stories of Deconversion': https://www.amazon.com/Apostate-Stories-Deconversion-Sarah-Bacaller/dp/1965646018

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In this conversation, Geoff Bullock shares his profound journey of faith, music, and the complexities of his time with Hillsong. He reflects on his early days in the church, the creation of the Hillsong music team, and the pivotal moments that shaped his spiritual life. Bullock discusses the rise and fall of Hillsong, expressing his grief over its trajectory while emphasizing the importance of separating personal faith from institutional flaws. He encourages listeners to seek genuine encounters with God within the church community, despite the challenges and disappointments they may face. Geoff and Will explore themes of hope, healing, and the complexities of power within faith communities. They discuss the dual nature of suffering and renewal, the importance of art in expressing faith, and the journey of personal transformation. Bullock shares his experiences of leadership, the challenges faced in the church, and the significance of surrendering power. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a compassionate understanding of others' suffering and the role of music and creativity in spiritual expression.

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In this episode Will Small interviews Jono Ingram, exploring his journey from being a pastor to finding his place in the world through nature, spirituality, and community development. Jono shares his experiences of feeling like a misfit within the church, the influence of his parents' faith, and how he integrates his spirituality with his current work in environmental social enterprise. Jono discusses his journey of creating a nonprofit focused on environmental sustainability and community engagement. He emphasizes the importance of connecting spirituality with environmental action, advocating for a holistic approach to faith that includes caring for the earth. Jono shares insights on how everyday activities can be infused with mindfulness and spirituality, highlighting the beauty in ordinary moments. The discussion also touches on the challenges faced by those trying to integrate faith with environmental activism and the need for a more expansive understanding of what it means to be a Christian in today's world.

Explore some of Jono's 'Dirt Church Liturgy' work at: https://jcingram.wordpress.com/

Learn more about Jono's non-profit here: https://www.weloveaintree.org/

Get tickets to Future Church Conference coming up on January 28 now! Use SPIRITUALMISFITS at checkout for $10 off: https://events.humanitix.com/future-church-conference-2025/tickets

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In this episode Will engages in a rich conversation with Liz Charlotte Grant, author of 'Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible.' They explore Liz's early relationship with the Bible, her journey through evangelicalism, and the evolution of her faith. Liz shares her insights on the importance of narrative in shaping beliefs, the complexities of trust within evangelical communities, and the need for inclusive and equitable spaces for dialogue about faith.

Liz and Will explore the complexities of interpreting scripture, the significance of God's voice, and the importance of spiritual autonomy. They discuss the parallels between God's communication and whale song, the value of Jewish midrash in understanding biblical texts, and the need for personal interpretation in a world filled with diverse voices. Liz emphasizes the importance of approaching the Bible with a sense of wonder and astonishment rather than seeking facts and certainty, encouraging listeners to trust their own spiritual journeys and interpretations.

'Knock at the Sky' is out now. Learn more here: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802883759/knock-at-the-sky/

Get tickets to Future Church Conference coming up on January 28 now! Use SPIRITUALMISFITS at checkout for $10 off: https://events.humanitix.com/future-church-conference-2025/tickets

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Yo! Brand new podcast episodes will be coming your way in early 2025, but for now I'm pulling out a couple of great episodes to revisit from the back-log, like this chat with Carolyn Meers.

This is a conversation about what it’s like to go through faith crises, deconstruction, dark nights of the soul. etc etc. while pastoring a church.

This is not an easy road. And I have not heard many people talk about it from the perspective of being a pastor. But I don’t think it’s uncommon.

I hope that this conversation gives people a little more empathy for some of the tensions that many pastors deal with, trying to love a group of people with a diversity of opinions and perspectives, while going through their own process.

If you are a pastor, I hope this makes you feel like your process is ok. And you too are not alone.

Out of her own journey of change, Caro has shifted the way she leads and shapes church community. And in my opinion, what she describes sounds exactly like what I crave when I think of the church of tomorrow (which we’ve spoken a little bit about lately). It is well worth listening to this conversation just to hear how Caro approaches things like teaching the bible and nurturing community nowadays.


Get tickets to Future Church Conference coming up on January 28 now! Use SPIRITUALMISFITS at checkout for $10 off: https://events.humanitix.com/future-church-conference-2025/tickets

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Yo! Brand new podcast episodes will be coming your way in early 2025, but for now I'm pulling out a couple of great episodes to revisit from the back-log, like this chat with Michael Frost and Shane Meyer-Holt...

Michael Frost (the kiwi version who hosts 'In the Shift' podcast) and Shane-Meyer Holt joined me (Will) for a rich conversation exploring their own stories and experiences around high control religious settings and their attempts to create much more open, gentle and generous communities these days. The conversation explores power dynamics, coercive control and the risk these things can pose to communities of all sizes - mega to micro. We also talk about embodiment, processing trauma and the kind of spirituality that embraces and listens to the body. There's so much good stuff in this one. Enjoy.

Check out the excellent 'In the Shift': https://intheshift.com/

Get tickets to Future Church Conference coming up on January 28 now! Use SPIRITUALMISFITS at checkout for $10 off: https://events.humanitix.com/future-church-conference-2025/tickets

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In this Christmas special, Will Small is joined by Mitch Forbes and Ella Evans for an honest conversation about the complexities, frustrations, and hidden griefs of the Christmas season. Between music, conversation, and poetry, they explore:

• The tension between Christmas joy and real-world suffering
• The liturgical calendar as an alternative rhythm to the consumer-driven grind
• Finding hope in small acts of kindness
• The radical nature of the incarnation story

Get tickets to Future Church Conference coming up on January 28 now! Use SPIRITUALMISFITS at checkout for $10 off: https://events.humanitix.com/future-church-conference-2025/tickets

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In this episode Simon Nixon joins Will to discuss the challenges of navigating difficult conversations, especially during the holiday season, and the significance of recognizing emotions and setting boundaries. Simon highlights the need for self-awareness and understanding triggers while engaging in conversations with family and friends, advocating for incremental sharing and vulnerability. The conversation concludes with practical strategies for preparing for difficult discussions and managing emotional responses.

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Dr Tanya Riches is the Director of Master of Transformational Development at Eastern College, and she has a PhD from Fuller Theological Seminary. Her interdisciplinary project with Aboriginal Pentecostal leaders (located at the intersection of development studies, anthropology, and Pentecostal theology) won the David Allan Hubbard Award from the School of Intercultural Studies. Her monograph entitled Worship and Social Engagement in Urban Aboriginal-led Australian Pentecostal Congregations was published in 2019 with Brill. It investigated links between urban Aboriginal-led congregations’ worship practices and their social justice initiatives.

In this episode Tanya Riches and Will Small explore the intersections of spirituality, community, and social justice within the context of Pentecostalism and Australian culture. They discuss the importance of reconnecting with nature, the role of grief and lament in faith, and the influence of Aboriginal spirituality on Pentecostal practices. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by Pentecostal communities in Australia, the shifting landscape of spirituality, and the need for practical theology that engages with real-world issues. Towards the end of the conversation they reflect on the season of Advent and the presence of God in unexpected places.

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Kelly Latimore is an artist whose modern day Icons have an incredible ability to challenge where we see Christ in the world. Some of his most known works reimagine the Nativity in contexts of modern suffering: amongst the homeless in a tent city, seeking safety as refugees, huddling beneath the rubble in Palestine.

At the beginning of the season of Advent this is a powerful conversation about the role of religious art, the places where God is located in our neighbourhoods, and the ways we might learn to see anew.

Kelly shares some of his personal story, and how he began to experiment with Iconography. Will and Kelly discuss the reactions to some of these pieces, the tensions between tradition and progress and the way communities can use art to better represent the image of God in their midst. 

Connect with Kelly's work here: https://kellylatimoreicons.com/

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