Jennifer Havice talks about how to do customer research, how writing a book has changed her business, the #1 thing she's done to move her copywriting business forward in the past year, what she's learned from horses and a ton of other great advice on the twelfth episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Don't miss it.

Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Sponsor: AirStory

Jen and horses

Peep Laja

Copyhackers/Joanna Wiebe

Jen’s book: Finding the Right Message

Breakthrough Advertising

Joe Sugarman’s book: Advertising Secrets

Rob’s Book: Telling Your Brand Story

James Turner

Kira’s website

Rob’s website

The Copywriter Club Facebook Group

Intro: Content (for now)

Outro: Gravity

Full Transcript:

Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club.

Kira: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about your successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I try to do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Rob: You're invited to join the club for episode twelve, as we chat with freelance copywriter and marketing expert, Jennifer Havice, about conversion copywriting, how to do customer research and the impact of publishing a book on her business.

Kira: Hello. Hello, Rob. Hello, Jen.

Rob: Jen, Kira.

Jen: How are you guys doing?

Rob: We're good.

Kira: I'm pumped.

Rob: Yeah, excited.

Kira: Jen, to start, I would love to hear about your work with horses because I know that's a passion of yours and I want to tie it to what we're talking about. If you could tie and connect your work with horses and about hobby and interest into business, what have you learned from your work with horses that has helped you in business?

Rob: That's maybe a question you haven't had a lot on ...

Jen: I haven't but it's actually a very good question because ... and it may still happen. At one point, I was working with my trainer to put together some resources for women riders and to help them have better relationships with their horses. There's just so many actually interesting life lessons that you can take from working with horses and there are things that are not only just life lessons but I've applied to my work and writing. Things like, clarity of the message, making sure that you're being very direct in your communication.

Especially with animals, they need very clear communication, they need to know what you're talking about. They get very frustrated when you're giving them lots of different cues and mixed signals, which is something that happens on websites, as we know, and other forms of communication that we work with. Yeah, it's interesting working with animals and that relationship and really needing to be honest and transparent and direct because they can totally see right through you.

Rob: Jen, I am curious, sort of stepping away from the horse training thing, how did you get started as a copywriter? You've got a lot of big clients and people who depend on you for the copy that you do and a lot of people saying good things about you, people like Peep Laja and others? How did you get started and how did you get to where you are today?

Jen: That's very kind of you. Well, it's funny, I started writing online, gosh, probably about almost eight years ago and really got into blogging, of all things, and was writing some social commentary online for myself and for some other sites. As I was trying to promote that and get some of my writing seen more, I was learning everything I could about social media and how do you promote yourself and get yourself out there and everything to do with online marketing. What ended up happening is people started to come to ...