In the fifth episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob interview each other about work processes, research, working with customers and the two things that have made the biggest difference in their careers. This one is a bit long, but still worth a listen. Check it out by clicking the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.

The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:

Actionable Books

Kira’s sales pages (coming soon)

Fast and Furious Movies

Case Study Buddy

Femgineer

Talia Wolf

Jen Havice

ConversionXL Agency

James Wedmore

The Ry Schwartz Episode

Jessica Mehring

Proposify

Balsamiq

Adobe Illustrator

Breakthrough Advertising

Ash Abirge

Kira’s website

Rob’s website

The Copywriter Club Facebook Group

Intro: Content (for now)

Outro: Gravity

Full Transcript:

RM: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I try to do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast.

KH: You're invited to join the club for Episode 5, as Rob and I interview each other about our businesses, how we got where we are, clients, the projects we're working on now, probably have some rants in there, or I might at some point.

RM: Yeah, we'll see how that goes.

KH: Hey, Rob. How's it going?

RM: Good, Kira. How's it going with you?

KH: Well, before we started recording, actually I think we did start recording, I was just telling Rob that it's been an interesting morning. I feel like it's just that time of year where there are lots of projects. Every client I have is launching something, and so it's just been a bit crazy, little crazy.

RM: Some of those clients are difficult and hard to deal with, right?

KH: Yes.

RM: There's all kinds of things that we could talk about with that.

KH: Yes, and it's funny because most of them are not difficult, and most of them are awesome, but when you have that one difficult one, it overshadows everything. I have to really maintain perspective and step back at times.

RM: Before we start talking about difficult clients, I have a question for you, Kira. Other than how did you get your start and all that sort of stuff, I'm really curious. Why did you leave such a great job in marketing for the rough and tumble of freelancing and dealing with clients on your own, and all of the issues that come up with it?

KH: That's a good question. I think for me, I knew at my second big girl job, I was working at Estee Lauder in 2008. I'd recently started my career, was recently out of college, and I remember working there. It was like this big glamorous company, before they cut everybody in 2008, and I remember sitting at my desk and just imagining a company, running my own business. I was thinking about different ideas. I think at the time I was thinking about creating this t-shirt company with different designs focused on endangered animals, and how I wanted to sell them online. Anyway, lots of ideas as I was sitting there. Maybe I wasn't busy enough.

RM: Right.

KH: At the time I was volunteering at a zoo, so there was this strong tie to animals. I think it's just been in me for a long time. I'm rebellious and contrarian enough that I don't like people telling me what to do. That way was just in me, and then I knew I wasn't ready, so I took other jobs after that that led me down the marketing path because I was naturally good at the marketing thing. I had worked at different non-profits and then eventually a startup, Actionable Books, where I was the marketing director.

Yeah, your question was, "Why would you leave a good job," right? I think for me, there's got to be some pain usually. I think it's actually harder to leave when it's really cushy and things are really good. I think it's easy to leave when things are bad and you hate your boss,