The Courageous Life

Over the course of his more than 40 year career,

Renowned psychotherapist Francis Weller developed a unique style of practice. 

What he calls soul-centered psychotherapy. 

Francis writes:

“When we listen to soul, to what is latent in the symptoms of depression, anxiety or addiction, we hear a more subtle voice calling out for attention. 

Only then do we come to understand the wisdom hidden in the suffering. 

Only then do we see what our soul has been asking of us all along.

Once granted, the symptoms often abate, leaving us deepened by the encounter with soul.”

In his moving and timely new book: 

In the Absence of the Ordinary Soul Work for Times of Uncertainty

Francis generously offers many of the powerful insights gained from a lifetime spent navigating the territory of the soul. 

In doing so, he invites us back into alignment with the wider world of belonging. 

In today’s conversation we’ll dive deep into Francis’s beautiful approach. 

Together we'll explore: 

• The possibility of approaching our experiences with reverence, 
• Working skillfully with grief, 
• Practicing self-compassion, 
• And learning to slow down and move at the speed of the soul.
  
  

Throughout our time together Francis will also offer a crucial reminder. 

We cannot engage this work alone. 

It is together that we can carry the anxieties, 

navigate the difficulties, 

and honor the sacred transitions of 21st-century life. 

Community is our way through.

Like thousands of people around the world, 

I have found Francis to be a lantern in challenging times. 

His work, a shining source of guidance, clarity and wisdom.

And perhaps you’ll leave this conversation feeling as I  did,

and as so many do after being in Francis’s company, 

More connected, 

present, 

And changed for the better. 

For more on Francis, his books including The Wild Edge of Sorrow, events, and other offerings please visit Francisweller.net

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On Listening and Attending to the Soul | James Hollis
• On Achieving the Transformation We Truly Seek | Ross Ellenhorn 
• On Ordinary Mysticism, Wonder, and Love | Mirabai Starr

Thanks for listening!

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In his book Letters to a Young Poet

Celebrated author and poet  Rainer Maria Rilke wrote:

“Be patient towards all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. 

Don’t search for the answers, which could not be given to you now because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. 

Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.”

In 2025, with the publication of her beautiful book:

How to Fall in Love with Questions: A New Way to Thrive in Times of Uncertainty

Journalist and applied behavioral scientist, 

Elizabeth Weingarten carries Rilke’s work forward. 

Through contemporary research, powerful storytelling, and her beautifully written prose,

Elizabeth charts a new path for personal growth—

a way to embrace the questions of our lives instead of seeking fast, easy answers.

She writes:

“What do you do when faced with a big, important question that keeps you up at night? 

Many people, understandably, seize answers dispensed by "experts," influencers, gurus, and more. 

But these fast, easy, one-size-fits-all solutions often fail to satisfy, and can even cause more pain.

What if our questions—the ones we ask about relationships, work, meaning, identity, and purpose—are not our tormentors, but our teachers?”

In today’s conversation we’ll explore the fascinating possibility of living the questions.  

Elizabeth will share stories from her journey of discovering a fresh, evidence-based approach for navigating uncertainty. 

One inspired by Rilke’s 150-year-old advice, and the moving stories of many others, whose lives have transformed through a different, and better, relationship with uncertainty.

Elizabeth’s work offers a powerful reminder:

When we find the courage to love the questions of our lives

It opens the door the kind of self-discovery that’s only possible when we feel most alive -

That is, in the moments where don’t know what will happen next.

For more on Elizabeth, her book, and other offerings please visit elizabethweingarten.com

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On the Science of Mastering Your Intuition | Laura Huang
• On the Power of Wonder | Monica Parker
• On Work, Friendship, and Embracing Impermanence | Parker Palmer & Jerry Colonna

Thanks for listening!

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Dr. David Treleaven is a a writer, educator, and trauma professional whose work lies at the intersection of mindfulness and trauma.

At the heart of David’s work is the notion that mindfulness is more powerful when combined with an understanding of trauma.

Part of what’s behind this is the growing realization over the years that mindfulness meditation isn’t all good. There are a number of potential pitfalls that have been increasingly documented over time. One of which is that mindfulness can exacerbate symptoms of traumatic stress.

As a result David has focused on offering mindfulness providers the knowledge and tools they require to meet the needs of those struggling with trauma.

In this conversation (which was originally recorded during COVID and we are re releasing again) David and I will explore a few big questions:

1. What is the relationship between increasing our capacity to be with discomfort and a meaningful and fulfilling life?
   
   
2. How can we increase our capacity to tolerate distress and discomfort while staying regulated, and responsive in the process?
   
   
3. When we are working at the edge of our comfort zone, or are working with the more difficult aspects of our experience how do we know when to keep going, and when to back off?

This is one of my favorite conversations on the show over the years and Partly because David is such a skilled teacher, and partly because the framework we'll discuss together (called the window of tolerance) is one of the most practical I  have come across for answering these big and nuanced questions about how to meet life from a more responsive and regulated place. 

For more on David, his book, courses and events please visit: davidtreleaven.com

Note on re-releasing this episode:

Every so often we will choose to re release an episode from earlier years. These conversations are often some of the best we've had on the show and you'll see [Best of] in the title. This conversation was originally recorded in 2021 during COVID, yet the themes, and what David offers feel just as timely and useful today as they did years ago. I hope you enjoy!

Interested in taking David's flagship Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness Course? As a listener of The Courageous Life you can get $400 off.

To receive the discount:

1. Head to: https://davidtreleaven.com/trauma-sensitive-mindfulness-complete/

2. Upon checkout enter the coupon code: courage400

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are more conversations we think you'll love:

• On Why We Suffer and How We Heal | Dr. Suzan Song
• On the Transformative Power of Equanimity | Margaret Cullen
• On the Power of Wonder | Monica Parker

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Thanks for listening! 

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We all know the feeling:

That gut-wrenching post-conversation replay, cringing at how much we just revealed. 

Many of us live in fear of saying too much, so we keep our mouths shut, 

guard our emotions, and lock away our most personal thoughts. 

But what if we’ve been worrying about the wrong thing?

A growing body of research shows we vastly underestimate the value of sharing more than we think we should, with our spouses, friends, colleagues, and even strangers. 

In her new book, Revealing: The Underrated Power of Oversharing,  

Behavioral Scientist and Harvard Business School Professor, Leslie John

Draws on over a decade of research and real-life stories, as she explores: 

• why we hesitate to open up, 
• when sharing really does backfire, 
• and how to strike a balance between too much and too little.

In today’s conversation we’ll dive into this practice of wise disclosure,  

And how when we pair vulnerability and openness 

with the practice of skillful discernment,

We can unlock some of life’s richest rewards. 

For more on Leslie, her book and other offerings please visit proflesliejohn.com

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On Becoming the Best Version of Yourself | Marc Brackett
• On the Science, and Magic, of Great Conversations | Alison Wood Brooks
• A Cardiologist's Journey to Healing, Health, and Happiness | Dr. Jonathan Fisher

Thanks for listening!

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In times of great division, disruption, and uncertainty, how can we find the ability to stay grounded? 

While each of us may find we have different answers, 

Here are a few that have been emerging for me recently:

The first - remembering, in the words of one of today’s guests: 

you don’t have to do it alone. 

Remembering the power (and necessity) of seeking out supportive community, and friends. 

The second -turning to history. 

Gaining perspective and insight by revisiting times in the past where humans have collectively endured, and persevered in the face of tremendous adversity.

The third - turning to the wisdom of elders.

Seeking out the wise and caring teachers, mentors, and leaders in our communities who are further along the path and can offer guidance from where they stand. 

Two of these modern elders in many ways are Mark Nepo and Elizabeth Lesser.

Chosen as one of OWN's SuperSoul 100, 

a group of inspired leaders using their gifts and voices to elevate humanity, 

Mark Nepo is one of the great poets and spiritual guides of our time. 

And 

bestselling author, and Co-Founder of Omega Institute, one of the world’s leading conference and retreat centers, 

Elizabeth Lesser has had the opportunity to learn from, and collaborate with many of the greatest spiritual teachers and leaders around the world. 

Something she’s done since Omega was first founded in 1977. 

I asked Elizabeth and Mark if they’d be willing to come together to engage in a rich conversation - sharing some of their own insights, practices, and ultimately what they’ve learned from some of their teachers about navigating troubling times. 

In this conversation (originally released in March 2025) we'll explore:

The possibility of meeting whatever is here, 

including the grand challenges we are facing, 

with greater wisdom, balance, and love.

For more on Mark please visit marknepo.com

For more on Elizabeth check out elizabethlesser.org, and for more on Omega Institute please visit: eomega.org

I was reminded in this conversation that perhaps the most potent way we might find our way through these times, 

And back to each other,

Is by remembering that at some level we are all made of the same stuff. 

Each one of us, a human being - part of a larger whole.

A reminder which in Mark’s words took this form:

“When we come back into direct connection with life,

There’s a reverence for life. 

And when we have a reverence for life we can’t do harm.”

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On the Transformative Power of Equanimity | Margaret Cullen
• On Saving the World and Ourselves | john a. powell
• Rediscovering the Art of Constructive Dialogue | Dr. Mylien Duong

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Thanks for listening!

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You may know people who are seemingly unflappable. 

Steadfast. 

As if they’ve somehow been inoculated with antibodies to render them able to survive, strive, and even thrive through major life stressors and transitions. 

What’s different about these people? 

Are they born with resilient genes, or does culture play a role? 

Do they have certain outlooks or behaviors that make them able to manage life with grace and confidence?

If so, are these skills that everyone can learn?

Today’s guest, Stanford and Harvard trained psychiatrist, medical anthropologist, and humanitarian adviser, Dr. Suzan Song,

has been exploring these questions for decades. 

Working with people facing everything from everyday instability to profound human rights violations,

She’s witnessed first-hand the limits of routine Western approaches to adversity. 

And now, in her highly anticipated debut book, 

Why We Suffer and How We Heal, 

Suzan shows us that resilience isn’t inherited or taught in isolation—

it emerges from the stories we tell, the rituals we keep, and the connections we depend on. 

In today’s conversation we’ll unpack some of Dr. Song’s hard-earned wisdom, 

Her insights about what helps most to weather life’s storms, 

And the groundbreaking path she’s uncovered that can lead to deep healing, 

thriving in spite of challenges, 

and feeling fully alive again.  

Perhaps most importantly though, she reminds us that this path 

Is open to us all.

For more on Dr. Song’s extraordinary work, speaking, and her new book (which if you enjoy this conversation I can’t recommend highly enough) please visit Suzansong.com

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On Curiosity, Presence, and Love | Dr. Jacob Ham
• On Choosing Love | Mark Nepo
• On Unlocking Our Primal Intelligence | Angus Fletcher

Thanks for listening!

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What if the mental health symptoms we face aren’t the actual problem? 

What if they’re signals that can help us see and solve the real problem? 

Psychiatrist, award winning professor of medicine, journalist, and leading mental health expert, 

Dr. Joanna Cheek invites us to lean into these questions

Arguing In her timely new book: 

It’s Not You, It’s the World, A Mental Health Survival Guide for Us All, 

that we’re not broken or doing it wrong when we’re stressed or struggling.

She writes:

“As our world clashes and collapses around us, it’s no surprise that one in two of us will be diagnosed with a mental health condition by the age of forty. 

It’s hard to view all our mental health symptoms as disordered if so many of us are experiencing them. 

Perhaps it’s not that something’s gone wrong in our bodies and minds, but that something’s gone right: 

These symptoms are brilliant alarms and adaptations to help us survive in a disordered world. 

Having sensitive protective functions that sound alarms or short-circuit when we’re threatened isn’t a design flaw. 

It’s a design success.”

Her words, and the deeply compassionate, expansive set of insights, tools, and practices she offers in her book, and through the powerful work she does in the world,

Invite us into a space of empowerment, connection, and hope.

It’s the type of action-oriented hope that stems from grounded possibility.

The possibility that when we care for both ourselves and our collectives, 

And learn to understand and befriend our alarms 

we can come together to solve the shared problems they’re signaling,

we can heal the systems that are making us all sick, 

And we can build a healthier future together. 

For more on Joanna, her new book, events, and other work please visit joannacheek.ca

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On the Transformative Power of Equanimity | Margaret Cullen
• On Saving Ourselves and the World | john a. powell
• On Wisdom and Love in Troubling Times | Mark Nepo and Elizabeth Lesser

Thanks for listening!

Support the show

In his new book Flourish, bestselling author, scientific journalist, and leading culture expert Daniel Coyle trains his eye on the groups and people who demonstrate exceptional connectivity, presence, and dynamism. 

His focus driven by a deep curiosity to better understand some of life’s biggest questions:

What is a meaningful life, and how do we make one? 

And

How do certain communities foster closeness, fulfillment, happiness, and energy?

To uncover the answers, Daniel spent 5 years visiting with, 

and studying these diverse groups who he writes: 

"Have, accidentally or on purpose, demonstrated an extraordinary ability to cultivate joyful, meaningful growth." 

Some of them include: 

• An unlikely brotherhood of thirty-three men who were trapped in a Chilean mine, 
• A tiny Michigan deli that blossomed into a $90 million ecosystem of businesses, while still keeping its soul.
• A children’s television show host whose quiet presence captured the hearts of parents and kids across generations.
• And a nonprofit in an impoverished Nairobi settlement that has improved quality of life for thousands of people.

Through his trademark original reporting,

Daniel found that these flourishing groups do two things: 

1. They make meaning
2. They build community

But how this unfolds is where things get really interesting: 

Daniel shares:

“The curious thing was, The source of aliveness seemed to be located in moments in which the group did absolutely nothing. That is, they often stopped their activities and came together in ritual-like stillness, and in those quiet moments meaningful connections would arise.

These moments were mostly defined by what they lacked. There was no deciding, no information sharing, no reaching for outcomes. Instead the were about deliberately stopping, zooming out to take in the bigger picture, noticing and savoring connection."

His beautiful new book, and today’s conversation, offer a powerful reminder - 

To slow down, 

To practice presence, 

And through the process, 

To connect more deeply with ourselves, each other, and the world around us. 

If we do, it may just be the doorway to the meaning, joy, and fulfillment 

so many of us yearn for. 

For more on Daniel, his books, and other work please visit danielcoyle.com

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On the Science of Mastering Your Intuition | Laura Huang
• On the Power of Wonder | Monica Parker
• On Unlocking Our Primal Intelligence | Angus Fletcher

Thanks for listening!

Support the show

There is an internal strength of mind and heart that is characterized by 

non-reactivity and clear seeing. 

It is a strength that holds the power to help us navigate the biggest challenges in our lives —

not by ignoring them,

not by reacting to them in destructive ways, 

But rather by being present with, and open to, all the very real struggles of being human 

without being hijacked by them. 

In her new book, Quiet Strength: Find Peace, Feel Alive, and Love Boundlessly Through the Power of Equanimity, 

Revered meditation teacher and licensed psychotherapist Margaret Cullen, 

Speaks to how how we can grow our capacity for equanimity. 

For 3 years Margaret took a deep dive into Equanimity. 

Meeting with leading neuroscientists, 

psychologists, 

faith leaders, 

meditation teachers, 

and even a politician,

All to explore equanimity’s promise. 

Which she writes:

"Is expansiveness. An ability to love life in all it’s poignancy; 

To fearlessly let go of self-limiting definitions; 

and to see in sadness, fear and anger some of the same signs of being 

ferociously alive we feel in delight connection and awe. 

Equanimity is our capacity to be 

tender-hearted without sentimentality, 

vulnerable without weakness, 

wise without detachment, 

humble without diffidence, 

and to surrender without passivity."

Today we’ll explore this promise.

The very real possibility of meeting life’s challenges from a place of grounded wisdom, 

And growing the quiet strength needed to create a better world. 

For more on Margaret, her books, teaching, live events, and other offerings please visit margaretcullen.com

And to preorder your copy of Quiet Strength (coming in March 2026) please visit:

 https://margaretcullen.com/publications/book/quiet-strength

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On Ordinary Mysticism, Wonder, and Love | Mirabai Starr
• On Choosing Love | Mark Nepo
• On Work, Friendship, and Embracing Impermanence | Parker Palmer & Jerry Colonna

Thanks for listening!

Support the show

There is a primal drive that in our species alone has been transformed into 

one of our most persistent and universal motivations: 

The longing to matter.

In her revelatory new book: 

The Mattering Instinct: How Our Deepest Longing Drives Us and Divides Us, 

MacArthur Fellow, National Humanities Medalist, and bestselling author,

Rebecca Newberger Goldstein, 

Weaves powerful insights from biology, psychology, and philosophy,

To persuasively argue that our need to matter―

and the various “mattering projects” it inspires,

from parenting, 

to scientific discovery, 

to transcendence, 

art, 

creative work, 

or the pursuit of mastery―

is simultaneously the source of our greatest progress and our deepest conflicts: 

the very crux of the human experience.

Leveraging her gifts as a storyteller,

Rebecca elevates the stories of people pursuing their unique mattering projects: 

• From the pioneering psychologist William James, who rose above the depression of his young adulthood to become perhaps the first great theorist of mattering; 
• To an impoverished Chinese woman who rescued abandoned newborns from the trash; 
• To a neo-Nazi skinhead who as a young man dealt racial violence to feel he mattered but ultimately renounced that hateful past after realizing that mattering isn’t a zero-sum game.

In offering these portraits Rebecca illuminates how our shared instinct for significance shapes identity, relationships, culture, and conflict - 

But, perhaps most importantly, 

They point the way to a future where we all might see that there is, fundamentally, enough mattering to go around.

Through her work, and today’s conversation, Rebecca invites us to consider

how our universal longing to matter - 

The primal instinct that so often drives us apart -

may actually be the key to finally understanding each other. 

For more on Rebecca, the Mattering Instinct, her other books and writing, please visit rebeccagoldstein.com

Enjoying the show? Please rate it wherever you listen to your podcasts!

Did you find this episode inspiring? Here are other conversations we think you'll love:

• On the Healing Power of Love | Stephen G. Post
• On How the Arts Transform Us | Susan Magsamen & Ivy Ross
• On Wisdom and Love in Troubling Times | Mark Nepo & Elizabeth Lesser

Thanks for listening!

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