In this illuminating conversation, Keith Martin-Smith is joined by Terri O’Fallon—co-founder of STAGES International and one of the most insightful developmental theorists alive today—to explore the hidden cycles shaping both personal growth and global history. As the world faces a convergence of meta-crises—from late-stage capitalism to climate collapse and runaway technology—Terri reveals how these upheavals mirror a deeper, evolutionary recursion within human consciousness itself.

Together, they trace the arc from timelessness (at birth) to the construction of linear and relative time, culminating in the boundless timelessness required at higher developmental stages. Alongside this journey, they chart the rapid acceleration of cultural evolution—from 50,000-year transitions to changes now unfolding within decades—and discuss the critical role of shadow, leadership, parenting, narcissism, and spiritual practice in navigating this evolutionary quickening.

Is capitalism the end of the story, or just another stage? Can AI ever touch the depths of timeless awareness? And what kind of leaders are needed to shepherd us into a post-crisis future? This wide-ranging dialogue blends rigor and heart, offering both a sobering look at our civilizational crossroads and a grounded faith in our capacity to grow through it.

PERSPECTIVE SHIFT:

- Time isn’t just measured; it’s grown into. Time isn’t a fixed backdrop. It’s a developmental achievement. Infants begin in timelessness, then construct cyclical time (day/night), linear time (goals/futures), and eventually relative time (Einsteinian). Ultimately, advanced stages re-integrate timelessness — not by regressing, but by transcending and including earlier temporal modes.

- Civilizational collapse isn’t random; it’s cyclical, and developmental. History isn’t a chaotic series of events. It’s patterned. Generational “blowups” (wars, revolutions, meta-crises) happen in ~100-year cycles and correspond to developmental limits in cultural structures (e.g., when capitalism outgrows its third-person frame).

- We’re not just evolving — we’re accelerating. It once took 50,000 years to move from archaic to magic. Now, new developmental stages are emerging in decades. This compression disrupts traditional generational analysis and creates a world where vastly different levels coexist simultaneously.

- You can be advanced and still dangerous. Late-stage development doesn’t automatically mean healthier behavior. A person can be construct-aware (5.0+) and still deeply narcissistic if early-stage wounds weren’t healed. Shadow travels up the spiral unless integrated.