Everyone Is Right

Robert McNaughton is an engineer by training who went to Naropa for music and contemplative psychology, and has followed AI for more than twenty years from two seats at once — cognitive science and contemplative practice. He and Keith Martin-Smith work through what right relationship with a technology nobody designed actually asks of us: the risks worth naming precisely, the ones we invent when we are frightened, and the human capacities that just became the scarce resource.

Watch the full discussion here:

https://integrallife.com/experience/what-ai-wants-from-us/

Developmental coach Keith Martin-Smith and integral scholar JP Jakonen trade awakening stories — a satori in a sauna, a breakdown in a kitchen — and land on what actually matters once the self is seen through: cleaning up your shadow, and remembering to enjoy the joke.

This is a conversation for anyone who has tasted awakening and asked, "…now what?" Waking up isn't the finish line — it leaves the conditioned self, with all its traumas and blind spots, fully intact. Keith and JP map the work that remains: waking up, cleaning up, and the part most teachers skip — joying up.

Drawing on Ken Wilber's Integral model, Zen koans, and the Fourth Way, they explore why suffering is mostly the conviction that "someone's home," how nonduality meets shadow work, and JP's teacher Junpo's charge: "Do not fail to awaken — and do not fail to live."

Keith Martin-Smith opens a new run of AI talks by wrestling with Abby Awomosu's provocative essay "Your Imagination Was Always Empire's Last Frontier," which argues the empires of AI aren't after your work or your reasoning — they're after the part of you that dreams. Keith takes the argument seriously, praises what's true in it, then maps exactly where it overreaches, using an integral lens that refuses both the doomer and the evangelist.

Along the way: why a faculty left idle goes quiet, the delicious irony of an anti-AI essay written by AI, the case for modernity's gifts alongside its harms, the shadow hidden inside a righteous critique, and what "conscious participation" with AI actually looks like. AI is our child — carrying our brilliance and our greed in equal measure, a tool whose worth reflects the skill of the hand that wields it.

Whether you're an AI skeptic, an enthusiast, or somewhere in the confused middle, this talk offers a way to hold the whole picture without collapsing into fear or hype.

What happens when two old Dharma brothers — both Zen priests, both former solitary practitioners, both veterans of decades on the cushion — sit down with no script and simply follow what's alive between them? This conversation is the answer.

Keith Martin-Smith welcomes Chad Bennett, a Zen priest, former psychotherapist, and founder of Mitra, a practice community built around spiritual friendship and what he calls transformative companionship. Chad left the title "psychotherapist" behind for a pointed reason: he grew weary of the Western habit of turning everything — especially ourselves — into objects to be diagnosed and fixed. Mitra is his attempt to begin from wholeness rather than brokenness, though he's quick to warn that telling someone they're whole when they feel shattered only deepens the wound. The art is opening the field so wide that the broken feeling is fully allowed — because that permission is itself the medicine.

At the heart of the episode is Chad's conviction that waking up, growing up, and cleaning up are not three separate projects to complete in sequence, but a single braided unfoldment that arrives all at once, in the same ordinary breath. To show rather than tell, he guides Keith and the live audience through a two-part inquiry meditation — first dissolving the boundary between body and earth, then sitting with 13.8 billion years of cosmic history at your back and an unformed future ahead, until you feel yourself less as a fixed noun and more as Whitehead's "creative advance into novelty," surfing the front edge of now.

From there the conversation ranges widely and goes deep: the difference between including experience and merely indulging it; why parts work risks freezing us into permanent fragmentation, and how a "frozen node of consciousness" can come to recognize itself as the whole; and the hard truth that awakening which skips the shadow will eventually collapse, no matter how complete it feels. Keith offers two unforgettable first-person stories — a sudden flood of divine love before a statue of Christ, and a roadside moment when a lifelong inner voice de-fused into awareness, surfacing a buried memory — to illustrate that without direct experience, the teachings are just philosophy.

Along the way: the "right kind of heart" and why most people don't try hard enough; self-healing, self-awakening systems; how genuine peer friendship dissolves the projection that haunts most teacher-student relationships; and what it means to befriend — as a verb — in a culture Chad calls a "desert of objectification."

Equal parts teaching, practice, and the easy warmth of true Kalyana Mitra, this is a conversation about meeting the whole messy braid of being human — and discovering there was never anywhere else to go.

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