The Deconstructionists

Episode Description

In this episode, John takes on a question that’s been floating around the public conversation for years — often asked with fear, frustration, or misunderstanding: Is deconstruction a bad thing?

After years of listening to the debate unfold online and in church spaces, it felt like time to finally respond. This conversation is part of our current series tackling some of the most frequently requested topics from listeners — and few have come up as often as this one.

John explores what “deconstruction” actually means, why so many people are drawn to it, and how it’s often mischaracterized by those who haven’t walked through it. From faith crises to intellectual honesty, this episode invites listeners to see deconstruction not as the end of faith, but as a deeply human and often necessary process of growth.

🔍 Topics Covered

• Why the term “deconstruction” has become controversial
• How faith communities have responded — and why many get it wrong
• The philosophical roots of deconstruction (Derrida, Foucault, and beyond)
• Why deconstruction doesn’t equal destruction
• The emotional and spiritual side of rethinking belief
• Rebuilding after the unraveling — what comes next
• Listener questions: “Can you come back from deconstruction?”

💬 Key Takeaways

• Deconstruction isn’t rebellion — it’s reflection.
• Asking hard questions doesn’t destroy faith; it refines it.
• Healthy faith can withstand curiosity, doubt, and nuance.
• The goal isn’t to tear down belief, but to let go of what’s untrue so that something more honest can take root.

📚 Recommended Resources

• Books & Articles
• Faith After Doubt — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)
• The Sin of Certainty — Peter Enns (Amazon)
• The Great Spiritual Migration — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)
• Out of Sorts — Sarah Bessey (Amazon)
• Theology in the Raw — “Is Deconstruction a Bad Thing?” podcast episode (theologyintheraw.com)
• Essays & Think Pieces
• “Deconstruction Is Not the Enemy” — Sojourners Magazine
• “When Faith Falls Apart: Why Deconstruction Can Be Holy” — Relevant Magazine
• “The Difference Between Deconstruction and Destruction” — Religion News Service
• Follow the Conversation
• Instagram
• X / Twitter
• thedeconstructionists.com

🎧 Listen & Subscribe

Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.

👉 Don’t forget to leave a review and share the episode with someone who’s wrestling with their faith journey.

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Episode Summary

You’ve probably heard it before: “The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality.” But is that actually true?

In this episode, we put that claim under a microscope. We dig into the six main passages most often cited against same-sex relationships, examine them in their original language and cultural context, and confront the translation choices and theological assumptions that have shaped centuries of Christian thought.

We also respond to common accusations from fundamentalist circles—that affirming interpretations “don’t take the Bible seriously” or are just “twisting Scripture to fit modern culture”—and show how serious scholarship actually tells a different story.

Key Topics Covered

• Why the word “homosexual” did not appear in English Bibles until the 20th century

• How ancient cultures, including those in the biblical world, understood sexuality and relationships

• The difference between exploitative, non-consensual sexual acts in the ancient world and modern, loving, consensual same-sex relationships

• Detailed breakdown of:

• Genesis 19 (Sodom and Gomorrah)

• Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 (Holiness Code)

• Romans 1:26–27

• 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10

• Why context matters: ancient hospitality codes, temple prostitution, and cultural purity laws

• How fewer than a dozen verses address same-sex acts—compared to thousands on love, justice, and caring for the marginalized

• Why serious biblical scholarship supports an affirming view

Primary Sources & Scholarship

Research for this episode draws from respected biblical scholars, linguists, and historians, including:

General Context & Language Studies

• Matthew Vines – God and the Gay Christian

• David P. Gushee – Changing Our Mind

• James V. Brownson – Bible, Gender, Sexuality

• William Loader – The New Testament on Sexuality

Translation & Language Issues

• Ed Oxford – research on the history of the word homosexual in Bible translations

• Dale B. Martin – Sex and the Single Savior

Old Testament Context

• John J. Collins – Introduction to the Hebrew Bible (on Holiness Code)

• Martti Nissinen – Homoeroticism in the Biblical World: A Historical Perspective

• Dan McClellan - the Bible Says So: What we get Right (and wrong) About Scripture's Most Controversial Issues

New Testament Context

• N.T. Wright – various works on Paul (discussing cultural setting)

• Robin Scroggs – The New Testament and Homosexuality

• Ken Stone – Practicing Safer Texts: Food, Sex and Bible in Queer Perspective

Special music on this episode provided by Forrest Clay and Que Jones

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In Part Two of our interview with Sarah Hurwitz, we dive deeper into the big questions raised in Here All Along. Drawing on her experiences in both politics and faith, Sarah reflects on the role of ritual, the meaning of community, and how spiritual practices can ground us in an unsteady world.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How Jewish rituals and practices can bring balance to modern life.
• The challenge and beauty of faith communities today.
• Lessons from her time working with President Obama’s speechwriting team and Michelle Obama.
• How wisdom traditions can help us wrestle with meaning, identity, and purpose.

About Sarah Hurwitz

Sarah Hurwitz served as a senior speechwriter for President Barack Obama and as chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama from 2010 to 2017. Since leaving the White House, she has become a leading voice in exploring spirituality and Jewish identity for a new generation.

• 📖 Book: Here All Along (Amazon)
• website: https://www.sarahhurwitz.net/
• 🌐 Author Page: Penguin Random House – Sarah Hurwitz

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In this first half of our conversation with Sarah Hurwitz—author, former White House speechwriter, and chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama—we explore her journey from the political stage to a deeply personal exploration of faith. Sarah was part of President Obama’s speechwriting team, helping craft some of his most memorable addresses, before turning her attention to spirituality and Jewish identity.

Her latest book, Here All Along: Finding Meaning, Spirituality, and a Deeper Connection to Life—in Judaism (After Finally Choosing to Look There), invites readers to rediscover ancient wisdom and reimagine what faith can mean in the modern world.

In Part One, we talk about:

• Sarah’s path from politics to spirituality.
• What drew her to reconnect with her Jewish roots.
• The inspiration and process behind writing Here All Along.
• Why ancient traditions can still speak powerfully today.

About Sarah Hurwitz

Sarah Hurwitz served as a senior speechwriter for President Barack Obama and as chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama from 2010 to 2017. Since leaving the White House, she has become a leading voice in exploring spirituality and Jewish identity for a new generation.

• 📖 Book: Here All Along (Amazon)
• website: https://www.sarahhurwitz.net/
• 🌐 Author Page: Penguin Random House – Sarah Hurwitz

Stay connected with The Deconstructionists and never miss an episode:

• 🎧 Apple Podcasts
• 🎧 Spotify
• 🌐 Official Website
• 📱 Follow us on Instagram, X / Twitter, and Facebook

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Episode Summary

The Bible is often treated as if it arrived perfectly bound, leather-covered, and gold-edged, straight from heaven. But the reality is far more complex—and far more interesting.

In this episode, we dig into the real history of how the Bible was formed—from its earliest writings to the process of canonization, from the Apocrypha to translation controversies, and why no one alive today has ever held an original manuscript.

We’ll talk about:

• When the books were likely written

• Who scholars think wrote them

• Why certain books were included or excluded

• The political and theological forces that shaped the canon

• How translation is never neutral

• Why inerrancy is a recent idea in Christian history

By the end, you’ll see the Bible not as a static, untouchable artifact, but as a living record shaped by people, history, culture, and language.

Key Topics Covered

• The Bible as a library, not a single book

• Timeline of Old and New Testament composition

• The development of the Jewish Scriptures and Christian canon

• The role of councils and church politics in determining canon

• The Apocrypha—what it is and why it’s in some Bibles but not others

• How the Dead Sea Scrolls changed what we know about biblical history

• Why we don’t have original manuscripts, and how scholars reconstruct the text

• Major translation milestones—from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate to the King James Version to modern editions

• How the concept of biblical inerrancy only took root in the late 19th–early 20th centuries

Primary Sources & Scholarship

The research for this episode draws from respected biblical scholars, historians, and textual critics, including:

Canon Formation & Authorship

• Bart D. Ehrman – Jesus, Interrupted; Misquoting Jesus; Lost Scriptures

• John Barton – A History of the Bible: The Story of the World’s Most Influential Book

• Bruce M. Metzger – The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance

• Lee Martin McDonald – The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority

Dating & Historical Context

• Paul’s letters: c. 50–60 CE

• Gospel of Mark: c. 65–70 CE

• Matthew & Luke: c. 80–90 CE

• John: c. 90–100 CE

• Revelation: c. 95 CE

• John J. Collins – Introduction to the Hebrew Bible

Dead Sea Scrolls

• Lawrence H. Schiffman – Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls

• James VanderKam – The Dead Sea Scrolls Today

Excluded & Apocryphal Texts

• Marvin Meyer – The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus

• Karen L. King – The Gospel of Mary of Magdala

• Timothy Michael Law – When God Spoke Greek: The Septuagint and the Making of the Christian Bible

Textual Criticism & Manuscripts

• Daniel B. Wallace – works on New Testament textual variants and manuscript dating

• Eldon Jay Epp – Perspectives on New Testament Textual Criticism

Translation History & Inerrancy

• Peter Enns – The Bible Tells Me So

• Kenton L. Sparks – God’s Word in Human Words

• Mark Noll – The Civil War as a Theological Crisis

Special music by Forrest Clay from the Recover EP. Find it anywhere you find your music!

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🧵 Episode Summary:

In Part 2 of our conversation with Bailey Krawczyk, we move from the experience of life inside Hillsong to the harrowing process of getting out. Bailey opens up about the aftermath of leaving, the emotional toll of speaking out in the Hillsong documentary, and the backlash from those still inside the movement.

We also explore the broader systems that allowed abuse and control to flourish unchecked—and why naming these systems is the first step toward healing.

🔑 Key Themes:

• The trauma of leaving a high-control religious group
• Psychological aftermath: shame, guilt, grief, and recovery
• The media spotlight and what it didn’t show
• How systems of power protect abusive leadership
• Deconstructing your faith after spiritual betrayal

🧑‍💼 About the Guest:

Bailey Krawczyk continues to advocate for survivors of spiritual and institutional abuse. Her story has resonated with thousands of others who have walked away from toxic faith environments in search of something more whole, more honest, and more human.

📌 Resources Mentioned:

• Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed [Discovery+ / Hulu]
• https://www.instagram.com/baileykrawczyk/
• Film: https://vimeo.com/1088719956
• [Book recommendation] When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat
• [Podcast] Leaving Hillsong
• [Resource] ICSA: International Cultic Studies Association – www.icsahome.com

🔁 Follow & Subscribe:

If this conversation resonated with you, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review The Deconstructionists wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with someone who might be ready to hear it.

Special music by Forrest Clay from the Recover E.P.

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🧵 Episode Summary:

In this first of a two-part conversation, we sit down with Bailey Krawczyk, a former Hillsong member who bravely spoke out in the Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed documentary. Bailey shares what initially drew her to the movement—its music, its energy, its promises of purpose—and how that promise slowly unraveled.

From inside the worship team to behind-the-scenes control tactics, Bailey gives us a raw, unfiltered look at life inside one of the most influential—and controversial—church brands in the world.

If you’ve ever felt conflicted about your time in a megachurch, or questioned how power and performance intersect with faith, this episode is for you.

🔑 Key Themes:

• How Hillsong built an emotionally immersive culture
• The fine line between community and control
• The spiritual cost of performance-based faith
• Early red flags that often go unnoticed
• What “high control” church culture really looks like

🧑‍💼 About the Guest:

Bailey Krawczyk is a former Hillsong member and whistleblower featured in the Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed documentary. Her advocacy work now focuses on empowering survivors of spiritual abuse and raising awareness about high-control religious environments.

📌 Resources Mentioned:

• Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed [Discovery+ / Hulu]
• https://www.instagram.com/baileykrawczyk/
• Film: https://vimeo.com/1088719956
• [Book recommendation] When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat
• [Podcast] Leaving Hillsong
• [Resource] ICSA: International Cultic Studies Association – www.icsahome.com

🔁 Follow & Subscribe:

If this conversation resonated with you, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review The Deconstructionists Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with someone who might be ready to hear it.

Special Music by Forrest Clay from the Recover E.P.

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🔍 Episode Summary

In this episode, we step into one of the most emotionally and politically charged issues in modern history—the war in Gaza and the roots of Zionism. With so much confusion around the history, theology, and current events, we take a step back to examine how we got here and why it matters.

We trace the origins of modern Zionism, the rise of the state of Israel, and how Western Christianity—particularly American evangelicalism—has shaped both the theology and the politics that continue to impact real people on the ground. This episode isn’t about taking easy sides. It’s about understanding the deeper story beneath the headlines.

🎧 Key Topics Covered

• What is Zionism and where did it come from?
• The Balfour Declaration and British colonial influence
• The founding of the state of Israel in 1948
• The Nakba and its lasting impact on Palestinian people
• How American evangelicalism helped shape U.S. foreign policy toward Israel
• The role of Dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible
• Christian Zionism vs. ethical Christian responsibility
• The ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza
• Why understanding this history matters for people of faith today

📚 Resources & Recommended Reading
Books & Articles

• “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pappé
• “A Wall in Palestine” by René Backmann
• “Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews” by Alan Hart
• “Blood Brothers” by Elias Chacour
• “The Bible and Zionism” by Nur Masalha
• “The Iron Cage: The Story of the Palestinian Struggle for Statehood” by Rashid Khalidi
• “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” by Stephen Sizer
• “The Bible, The Jews, and the Death of Jesus” by Adele Reinhartz

Documentaries & Media

• The Law in These Parts (documentary)
• Al Nakba (Al Jazeera English documentary series)
• Occupation 101 (2006 documentary on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict)
• With God On Our Side (Christian Zionism documentary by Porter Speakman Jr.)

Other Resources

• B’Tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
• Jewish Voice for Peace
• IfNotNow Movement
• Kairos Palestine Document (2009)

🧠 Listener Challenge

Ask yourself: What narratives have shaped the way I view this conflict? Whose voices have I been taught to prioritize—and whose have I never heard?🙏 Support the Show

If this episode challenged or inspired you, please consider leaving a review and sharing it with a friend.

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Episode Description:

In the year 897, Pope Stephen VI ordered the rotting corpse of his predecessor, Pope Formosus, to be dug up, dressed in papal robes, propped up on a throne, and put on trial.

Yes, this actually happened.

This bizarre and macabre moment in church history—known as the Cadaver Synod or Synodus Horrenda—is one of the most infamous (and grotesque) episodes of the medieval papacy. In this episode, John Williamson dives deep into the political chaos of 9th-century Rome, explains how the corpse trial came to be, and breaks down why the church literally put a dead pope on the stand.

Get ready for a tale of revenge, power, posthumous punishment, and one of the most unhinged trials in recorded history.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Who Pope Formosus was, and why his enemies hated him

• Why Pope Stephen VI risked total scandal to hold the corpse trial

• What actually happened during the Synod—from propping up the corpse to cutting off its fingers

• How this event caused riots, a papal overthrow, and a historical backlash that shaped future church policy

• How the corpse trial symbolizes the violent politics of the medieval church

Sources & Research References:

1. Duffy, Eamon. Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes (Yale University Press, 1997).

2. Norwich, John Julius. Absolute Monarchs: A History of the Papacy (Random House, 2011).

3. Mann, Horace K. The Lives of the Popes in the Early Middle Ages, Vol. IV (1902).

4. Partner, Peter. The Pope’s Men: The Papal Civil Service in the Renaissance (Oxford University Press, 1990).

5. Collins, Roger. Keepers of the Keys of Heaven: A History of the Papacy (Basic Books, 2009).

6. De Rosa, Peter. Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy (Crown, 1988).

7. Catholic Encyclopedia (1913 edition) – “Pope Formosus” and “Cadaver Synod” entries

8. New Advent: “Synod Horrenda” entry

9. History Extra – BBC History Magazine: “The Cadaver Synod: Why a Pope Went on Trial After Death”

10. JSTOR Daily – “The Time the Catholic Church Put a Dead Pope on Trial”

11. Atlas Obscura – “The Cadaver Synod: The Time a Dead Pope Was Put on Trial”

Listener Questions & Reactions:

Have thoughts on the corpse trial? Theories? Favorite pope gossip?

Drop John a message at [email protected], or join the conversation online using the hashtag #CorpseSynod or #HistoryOnTheMargins

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📌 Episode Summary:

In this deeply insightful episode, John sits down with Dr. Paula Swindle—a licensed therapist and professor who has spent a career studying religious trauma —to unpack the concept of spiritual bypass, the psychological consequences of religious trauma, and the subtle ways churches often silence dissent.

Dr. Swindle brings decades of experience working at the intersection of psychology and faith, offering a compassionate and deeply informed perspective for anyone trying to untangle their religious experience from their identity and healing journey. If you’ve ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” this conversation is for you.

Originally recorded for Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, this interview felt too important not to share here as well. For the full series: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

🔑 Topics Covered:

• What is spiritual bypass and how does it show up in churches?

• Why “positive vibes only” culture can be harmful in religious spaces

• The long-term impact of suppressing anger, grief, and doubt

• How faith communities often retraumatize survivors of abuse

• Practical ways to reclaim your story and find safe support

📚 Recommended Resources:

• Our boy Dan's podcast: You Have Permission: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-religion-hurts-you-229/id1448000113?i=1000640316552

🗣️ Join the Conversation:

Have you experienced spiritual bypass or church-related trauma? We’d love to hear your story. Tag us on social media or reach out privately.

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #SpiritualBypass #ChurchTrauma #ReligiousRecovery #FaithAndHealing

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