The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast

In this powerful episode, Brad May returns for Part 2 of a raw and honest conversation about leadership, resilience, identity, and what it truly takes to win at the highest level.

Brad reflects on being traded multiple times during his NHL career, adapting to new teams, and learning how to integrate into different locker rooms without disrupting culture. He shares the emotional journey of winning the Stanley Cup with the Anaheim Ducks — and why celebrating that moment with his family meant more than the trophy itself.

The conversation expands beyond hockey into business leadership. Brad breaks down why coaches are “salesmen,” why clarity of vision is essential, and why delegation without interference builds trust. He unpacks the difference between playing not to lose versus playing to win — and why excuses quietly erode culture.

At its core, this episode is about ownership. Ownership of performance. Ownership of mistakes. Ownership of mindset.

As Brad says, there is no “try.” You either do or you don’t.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 - Mindset over body: eliminating "try" and taking ownership

0:34 - Welcome and introduction to part two of the episode

1:31 - Adapting to seven different NHL teams and building new relationships

6:00 - Winning the 2007 Stanley Cup with Anaheim after 16-year career

7:50 - Scott Niedermeyer's perspective on being lucky to share the Cup with family

11:04 - What makes a good coach: selling a system and getting buy-in

13:49 - Comparing coaching styles: Mark Crawford vs Ted Nolan vs Randy Carlisle

15:30 - Ted Nolan's simple advice: "Just play left wing" analogy

17:31 - Randy Carlisle's relentless work ethic and pursuit of excellence

21:28 - Why some players leave the game bitter and unfulfilled

25:08 - Identity after hockey: from "I used to be" to "I am a hockey player"

30:28 - Eliminating excuses: "You either do or you don't"

33:28 - Leadership lesson from Brian Burke: delegating responsibility to coaches

55:38 - Playing to win vs playing not to lose: the power of identifying your goal

58:38 - The bar speech that united the team and families to win together

Key Takeaways:

1. Leaders must communicate crystal-clear goals (short, medium, and long term).
2. Identity loss can derail high performers after retirement or career shifts.
3. Playing to “not lose” creates hesitation; playing to win creates momentum.
4. Ownership beats excuses — every time.
5. Leaders must reflect on whether failure was execution or lack of resources.
6. Energy, clarity, and consistency win over time.
7. You must declare what you want — silence guarantees nothing.

Resources Mentioned:

1. The Secret (law of attraction concept)
2. Tony Robbins – mindset principle referenced
3. NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) era in NCAA athletics
4. Cold plunge discipline practice
5. Billions (TV show reference for executive coaching concept)

Notable Quotes:

1. “Your mind is in charge. Doesn’t matter what your body feels, just do it.” - Brad May
2. “It’s okay if you’re not successful, but own it and learn from it and let’s go. Let’s keep moving.” - Brad May
3. “The moment that a coach compromises his values, he's not the same guy and he's probably not as good.” - Brad May
4. “A coach is just a salesman. He needs 25 guys to buy in.” - Brad May
5. “You gotta enjoy the small wins.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
6. “There's just some people, some leaders, who are just not having the hard enough conversations.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
7. “You also have to have people around you that are willing to say - hey, you're being either too easy or too hard. Like you just, you have to have a team around you to help you identify as a leader.” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Guest Bio:

Brad May is a former NHL forward whose 19-year career spanned more than 1,000 regular-season games across the league. He is a Stanley Cup champion, winning with the Anaheim Ducks in 2007, and remains a recognizable figure in hockey history for his 1993 overtime playoff goal against Boston, remembered by fans as the iconic “May Day” moment.

Following his retirement from professional hockey in 2010, May transitioned into broadcasting, working as an NHL analyst with CBC, Rogers Sportsnet, and AT&T SportsNet, where his candid, player-first perspective made him a natural presence on air. In 2024, May entered a new chapter off the ice, joining NFP as a Client Executive, where he works with businesses and individuals on insurance and risk management.

Guest Social Links:

Instagram: www.instagram.com/maydayhockey

LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/brad-may-24228662

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan:

Facebook

Instagram

LinkedIn

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In this episode of The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast, former NHL veteran Brad May joins Dwayne for candid conversation about leadership, grit, and longevity — on and off the ice.

Brad reflects on his 19-year NHL career, what separated players who made it from those who didn’t, and why mental fortitude mattered more than raw talent. From locker room lessons and team dynamics to integrity in business and life, Brad shares the foundational principles that shaped his journey: set achievable goals, outwork the competition, do the right thing — even when no one is watching.

He speaks openly about fear, discipline, evolving training methods, investing in himself, and the power of speaking goals into existence. Whether you’re building a business, leading a team, or chasing a dream, this conversation is a masterclass in character, culture, and consistency.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 - Opening: The power of achievable goals and how success begets success

2:10 - Amazing Race experience: A month of uninterrupted father-daughter bonding

8:13 - Ken May's integrity story: Choosing ethics over extra commission in real estate

13:36 - Playing 1,041 NHL games: The 5% club and what it takes to last 19 years

14:47 - The Miracle on Ice: Herb Brooks' leadership and the power of divide and conquer

21:36 - Training evolution: What Brad wishes he knew then vs. what athletes know now

27:54 - Nathan McKinnon's training: Heavy lifting before games to wake up the nervous system

33:28 - Building championship teams: The right mix of leaders, followers, convicts, and dreamers

39:04 - Locker room lesson: When Pat LaFontaine taught Brad about playing smart vs. playing hard

49:35 - The power of manifestation: Speaking your goals into existence

58:13 - "You can't get blood from a rock": Brad's mental fortitude superpower

1:02:03 - Parenting reflection: Being too soft on the next generation vs. learning through adversity

Key Takeaways:

1. Success is the realization of a predetermined goal
2. Achievable goals create momentum and compound wins
3. Longevity requires discipline beyond talent
4. Mental fortitude is a competitive advantage
5. You cannot succeed alone — success is collective
6. Speak goals into existence and back them with action

Resources Mentioned:

1. The Secret (law of attraction concept)
2. Miracle on Ice (1980 U.S. Olympic Hockey Team story)
3. Herb Brooks leadership model
4. Journaling & written goal-setting

Quotes:

1. “Set your goals, achievable goals, and you do that on a regular basis and you're gonna get to where you're going.” - Brad May
2. “The definition of success is the realization of a predetermined goal.” - Brad May
3. “You can’t get blood from a rock.” - Brad May
4. “Leadership shows up in a lot of different ways.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
5. “The strongest force in the human psyche is to remain congruent with how we identify ourselves.” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Brad May is a former NHL forward whose 19-year career spanned more than 1,000 regular-season games across the league. He is a Stanley Cup champion, winning with the Anaheim Ducks in 2007, and remains a recognizable figure in hockey history for his 1993 overtime playoff goal against Boston, remembered by fans as the iconic “May Day” moment.

Following his retirement from professional hockey in 2010, May transitioned into broadcasting, working as an NHL analyst with CBC, Rogers Sportsnet, and AT&T SportsNet, where his candid, player-first perspective made him a natural presence on air. In 2024, May entered a new chapter off the ice, joining NFP as a Client Executive, where he works with businesses and individuals on insurance and risk management.

Links

Instagram: www.instagram.com/maydayhockey

LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/brad-may-24228662

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Emma Murray and Dwayne Kerrigan move from awareness into practical performance tools. Emma introduces one of the most powerful distinctions in high performance: critique versus criticism.

She explains why self-criticism is a survival response that quietly destroys confidence, slows learning, and locks people into repeated mistakes. Through examples from elite sport, sales, leadership, parenting, and everyday life, Emma breaks down how to review performance by examining the entire process — thoughts, feelings, actions, and results — rather than attacking outcomes or identity.

The conversation also dives into fear-based leadership, tunnel vision, stress responses, and why people perform worse when they feel watched, pressured, or unsafe. Emma shares actionable techniques to regain presence under pressure, including breath, body awareness, and “small focus” anchors that keep the mind out of fight-or-flight. This episode equips leaders, entrepreneurs, and performers with a repeatable framework for learning faster, leading better, and performing consistently — even when stakes are high.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Emma on self-kindness under pressure and stopping the internal threat response

01:00 – Dwayne intro + framing Part 2: turning attention and mindset into action

02:00 – Critique over criticism: how thoughts drive feelings, actions, and results

03:30 – Outcome focus vs process focus and why pressure hijacks performance

05:05 – How to critique the entire performance process (thinking, feeling, doing)

06:40 – Turning failure into growth by extracting the right lessons

08:00 – Why quarterly reviews fail and daily reflection matters

09:45 – Coaching teams beyond checklists and task correction

11:25 – A-game vs B-game language and building awareness in teams

13:40 – Leaders, fear, control, and psychological safety

15:30 – Running toward outcomes vs accessing creativity and big-picture thinking

17:30 – The “flashlight of attention” metaphor for leaders and parents

19:40 – Stress responses, presence, and anchoring attention (breath, feet, listening)

22:00 – Training attention as a performance muscle

25:45 – Stress cycles, recovery, and sustainable performance

29:10 – Introduction to the Closed Eye Process and presence training

32:00 – Deep dive: critiquing vs criticizing explained step-by-step

36:30 – Survival wiring, subconscious files, and performance memory

39:30 – The CHIMP brain, danger signals, and slipping into B-game

42:30 – Small controllable focus as the pathway back to A-game

Key Takeaways:

1. Critique examines process, not personal worth
2. Thoughts drive feelings, feelings drive actions, actions drive results
3. Growth comes from extracting learnings — not from failure alone
4. Fear narrows focus and creates tunnel vision
5. Small, controllable focus prevents fight-or-flight
6. Connection reduces fear and restores execution

Quotes:

“Failure does not give you growth if you are not actually eliciting the lessons from it.” - Emma Murray

“Feet on floor, bum on chair … Bring your attention to your feet, your bum, your breath … those things are gonna anchor you back into the present moment” - Emma Murray

“When all this fails, use your breath” - Emma Murray

“The human mind cannot carry two thoughts simultaneously.” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Resources Mentioned

1. Critique Over Criticism Framework
2. A-Game / B-Game Performance Model
3. CHIMP Paradox – Dr. Steve Peters
4. Closed-Eye Process

Emma is sought-after by ASX 100 corporations, executives, and the education sector for her unique High Performance Mindfulness practice that drives sustainable improvements in performance, by providing the skills and tools that enable participants to bring their 'A-Game' to high-pressure moments.

Website: https://www.emmamurray.com.au/

Instagram: www.instagram.com/highperformancemindfulness

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/em.murray.mindcoach/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/high-performance-mindfulness/

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

Performance mindset coach Emma Murray returns to The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast to break down why even highly capable people struggle under pressure - and how to fix it.

Emma explains that humans are not wired to perform at their best in business, sport, or life - we’re wired for survival. When pressure hits, our attention naturally drifts to fear, loss, and outcomes we can’t control, pulling us out of the present moment. Through powerful examples from golf, sales, leadership, parenting, and elite sport, Emma shows how performance collapses the moment attention leaves the task.

Together, Dwayne and Emma unpack the difference between skillset and mindset, why elite performers win through attention regulation, and how “chunking down” - narrowing focus to something small, controllable, and strength-based - restores clarity, confidence, and execution.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Emma opens by explaining why humans are wired for survival, not greatness.

01:00 – Dwayne introduces Emma and frames the conversation around skillset, mindset, and attention.

03:30 – Emma explains why attention patterns are universal across sport, business, and life.

06:00 – Golf example: how attention drifts under pressure and breaks execution.

08:30 – Skillset vs mindset explained using the “boxes within boxes” analogy.

11:00 – Scott McLaughlin story and consistency through mindset regulation.

13:30 – Expectations, execution, and why lowering outcomes is the wrong solution.

16:00 – Survival wiring: fear of loss vs fear of missing gain.

18:30 – Sales leadership example and why people avoid known next steps.

21:00 – Horse riding comeback story and gratitude removing danger thinking.

23:30 – Freeze response explained and attention leaving the arena.

26:00 – Why leaders can’t fix fear with cheerleading or pressure.

28:30 – Catching attention drift and recognizing A-game vs B-game signals.

31:30 – Small focus strategies for golf, sales, and presentations.

34:30 – Breath as the fastest way to regulate attention and mindset.

38:30 – Process focus vs outcome focus and competitive advantage.

41:30 – Post-execution review introduced: critique over criticism.

44:30 – Bonus segment setup: “Chunking Down” as a performance tool.

47:30 – Chunking down explained with leadership, sales, and riding examples.

Key Takeaways:

1. Humans are wired for survival, not peak performance
2. Pressure pulls attention away from the present moment
3. Skillset lives inside mindset — mindset determines delivery
4. Outcomes and comparison destabilize performance
5. Small, controllable focus creates safety and clarity
6. Breath is the fastest way to regulate attention
7. Elite performers anchor attention on process, not results
8. Performance improves when danger is removed from the mind

Quotes:

“We are not wired to be great in competition or to be great in sales or business, or even a great friend for that matter, or a great parent. We are just wired for survival.” - Emma Murray

Big stuff, big goals, big expectations, small focus.” - Emma Murray

“If you are stepping into that moment with your attention on the process, you've already got a massive competitive advantage.” - Emma Murray

“Control is an illusion” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Resources Mentioned

1. Traditional Mindfulness (adapted by Emma Murray)
2. Chunking Down Technique
3. Closed-Eye Processes (mentioned as bonus content)

Emma is sought-after by ASX 100 corporations, executives, and the education sector for her unique High Performance Mindfulness practice that drives sustainable improvements in performance, by providing the skills and tools that enable participants to bring their 'A-Game' to high-pressure moments.

Website: https://www.emmamurray.com.au/

Instagram: www.instagram.com/highperformancemindfulness

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/em.murray.mindcoach/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/high-performance-mindfulness/

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In this special bonus episode recorded ahead of their full mindset conversation, Dwayne Kerrigan and Emma Murray reflect on a deeply personal topic: relationships.

As Valentine’s Day approaches, they explore how intimate relationships often absorb the stress, pressure, and emotional buildup from the outside world. Dwayne shares candidly about his own growth — recognizing how habitual reactions, unmet needs, and old internal stories can surface at home if they’re not processed throughout the day. Emma adds insight into how unconscious patterns, primary questions, and survival wiring shape the way we show up with those we love most.

Together, they discuss raising standards inside the relationship, practicing conscious awareness, meeting your partner’s needs without expectation, and replacing self-judgment with grace. This short but powerful conversation reframes love not as grand gestures, but as attention, awareness, and intentional daily behavior.

Episode Highlights:

0:00 - Introduction: Valentine's Day as a renewal for relationships

0:27 - Viewing Valentine's Day as a time for awareness and meeting needs

1:23 - Why we release stress on loved ones instead of during the day

2:41 - Holding different standards for work vs. intimate relationships

3:43 - The importance of awareness in meeting your partner's needs

4:34 - Breaking habitual negative response patterns in relationships

5:11 - How relationship quality affects every area of life

5:38 - "Chains of habit are too light to be felt until too heavy to be broken"

6:06 - Treating your partner with conscious awareness

7:14 - Focusing on relationship growth: reading, podcasts, and learning

7:53 - Enjoying the process instead of fixating on an end state

8:30 - Getting addicted to lighting up your partner

9:10 - Managing anger and identifying emotional triggers

9:52 - Using Byron Katie's four questions to examine stories we tell ourselves

10:12 - Taking responsibility instead of projecting onto your partner

10:30 - We're all learning - giving yourself and your partner grace

11:54 - Appreciating yourself for being imperfect

Key Takeaways:

1. We often release built-up stress on the people we love most
2. Awareness creates choice inside intimate moments
3. Love grows when we actively meet one another’s needs
4. Self-reflection prevents projection
5. Grace and ownership dissolve conflict faster than blame
6. Relationships are built through process, not perfection
7. Conscious love is practiced — not automatic

Quotes:

1. “There’s nothing better in this world and nothing makes life feel greater than having an amazing relationship that is just full of love and abundance when it is going and operating at its peak level.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
2. “ I didn't hold myself to the same standard inside the intimate relationship as I did in my professional life.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
3. “If things are not good in your relationship, they’re not good anywhere you go.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
4. “I think our relationships are very based on just habitual responses.” - Emma Murray
5. “Our relationship is the core of our existence here.” - Emma Murray
6. “The excitement of treating your person that you love most with such conscious awareness.” - Emma Murray

Resources Mentioned

1. Loving What Is - Byron Katie
2. Primary Question Framework (personal development concept referenced)
3. 10,000 Hours Principle (mastery concept referenced)

Emma is sought-after by ASX 100 corporations, executives, and the education sector for her unique High Performance Mindfulness practice that drives sustainable improvements in performance, by providing the skills and tools that enable participants to bring their 'A-Game' to high-pressure moments.

Website: https://www.emmamurray.com.au/

Instagram: www.instagram.com/highperformancemindfulness

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/em.murray.mindcoach/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/high-performance-mindfulness/

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In Part 2 of this in-depth conversation, Sarah Jeanneault and Dwayne Kerrigan tackle one of the most misunderstood topics in modern business: AI implementation without foundational process.

Drawing from Sarah’s background in education, finance, trading psychology, and her current role at ProcedureFlow, the discussion reframes AI not as a silver bullet—but as an amplifier of whatever already exists inside an organization. Together, they explore why many companies are failing to see ROI from AI investments, how skipping SOPs and governance creates chaos, and why leaders must slow down before they scale up.

Using powerful metaphors—from sourdough baking to mountain biking—Sarah explains why meaningful AI adoption requires patience, critical thinking, and uncomfortable conversations. The episode also expands into leadership, parenting, culture-building, and the human elements AI will never replace: empathy, judgment, and connection. This is a grounded, honest conversation for leaders who want to use AI responsibly—without gambling their business on hype.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Sarah introduces AI implementation using a sourdough recipe analogy

01:00 – Dwayne welcomes listeners and frames Part 2

02:00 – Imposter syndrome, fear, and language we use to protect ourselves

05:00 – Growth mindset and the “10 more steps” principle

08:00 – Parenting, resilience, and building long-term capability

12:00 – Leadership, culture, and why hard conversations matter

16:00 – Why AI investments often fail to produce ROI

20:00 – SOPs, governance, and backing the bus up

25:00 – Customer experience, AI chatbots, and human frustration

30:00 – Agentic AI, avatars, and future customer service models

35:00 – Why AI is already here and cannot be undone

40:00 – Doom scrolling, humanity, and preserving curiosity

46:00 – Data collection as preparation—not prediction

53:00 – Visual flows and simplifying complex knowledge

59:00 – AI timelines, human choice, and optionality

01:05:00 – Where AI helps—and where it shouldn’t replace humans

01:10:00 – Final reflections and resources

Key Takeaways:

1. AI amplifies broken systems, it doesn’t fix them
2. SOPs, processes, and governance must come before automation
3. ROI fails when AI is implemented for optics instead of outcomes
4. Process clarity enables both humans and AI to perform better
5. Not every industry, or company, is ready for AI at the same pace
6. Data collection today enables smarter AI decisions tomorrow
7. AI should augment human judgment, not replace it
8. The future still belongs to human connection, empathy, and choice

Resources Mentioned:

1. ProcedureFlow – Enterprise knowledge management platform - https://procedureflow.com/

Notable Quotes:

1. “The only difference between a dream and a goal is a timeline.” - Sarah Jeanneault
2. “I want people to think about implementation of ai, like you're following a recipe for something that's really tricky to cook.” - Sarah Jeanneault
3. “ If you are willing to go 10 steps of uncertainty when you feel like you really need to stop, but you're gonna push for 10 more seconds, you are going to get so much further ahead of somebody else.” - Sarah Jeanneault
4. “ Anything worthwhile is hard. If it's not, it's probably not worthwhile.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
5. “ The real meaning behind imposter syndrome is, you know, am I enough?” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Sarah Jeanneault is the Vice President of Marketing at ProcedureFlow, where she’s helping redefine customer experience in the age of AI. With over 20 years of leadership across fintech, wealth management, and brokerage services, Sarah is an award-winning executive, speaker, and founder who brings both personal passion and professional expertise to the table.

In 2023, she was recognized as one of the Top 10 Women Leaders in Finance in the U.S. Known for her dynamic mix of strategic vision and human-centered leadership, Sarah believes lasting success comes from having a goal, a dream, and the determination to pursue it—along with a willingness to keep learning and growing.

Links

LinkedIn:https://ca.linkedin.com/in/iam-sarah-potter

Website: https://procedureflow.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Procedureflow

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/procedureflow

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thedwaynekerriganpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dwaynekerriganpodcast/

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwayne-kerrigan-998113281/

Website: http://www.dwaynekerrigan.com

Disclaimer The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Sarah Jeanneault shares her unconventional journey from struggling with math in school to becoming a respected leader in fintech, trading education, and enterprise knowledge management. She and Dwayne Kerrigan explore the deep gaps in financial literacy, why traditional education often fails to prepare people for real-world decision-making, and how learning truly begins after formal schooling ends.

Sarah explains how she applied adult learning theory to teach herself trading, why psychology matters more than numbers in the markets, and how curiosity, pattern recognition, and humility shaped her success. The discussion expands into the future of education, AI’s role in learning, entrepreneurship, identity shifts after business exits, and the emotional reality of leadership transitions. This episode is a thoughtful examination of growth, risk, and why continuous learning is the most valuable skill anyone can develop.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Sarah opens by naming the gap in real-world financial literacy.

02:00 – Dwayne introduces Sarah and frames the episode around learning and reinvention.

05:00 – Sarah shares struggling with math and early assumptions about intelligence.

09:00 – Losing her best friend and questioning the direction of her life.

14:00 – Discovering trading and applying adult learning theory to self-education.

18:00 – Why financial literacy is rarely taught despite its life-long impact.

23:00 – Breaking down trading basics and removing unnecessary complexity.

28:00 – Psychology, emotion, and why ego derails good financial decisions.

33:00 – Risk, uncertainty, and learning to sit with discomfort.

38:00 – Podcasts, curiosity, and self-directed learning as modern education.

44:00 – Continuous learning as the foundation of entrepreneurship and leadership.

49:00 – Gamifying learning to build confidence and consistency over time.

54:00 – Building community through transparency and shared learning.

59:00 – Scaling education-driven businesses and teaching at scale.

64:00 – Identity shifts after acquisitions and redefining success.

69:00 – Leadership, disagreement, and creating psychologically safe teams.

74:00 – AI, critical thinking, and the future of learning.

79:00 – Personal growth, reinvention, and staying curious long-term.

84:00 – Reflections on learning, humility, and what truly creates confidence.

88:00 – Closing thoughts, gratitude, and setting up Part 2.

Key Takeaways:

1. Financial literacy is rarely taught, yet deeply shapes life decisions.
2. Learning accelerates when curiosity replaces fear of being “bad at math.”
3. Real education often begins after formal schooling ends.
4. Trading and business are driven as much by psychology as by data.
5. Growth comes from pattern recognition, experimentation, and reflection.
6. Entrepreneurship requires comfort with uncertainty and identity shifts.
7. AI will amplify learning — but only if critical thinking is prioritized.
8. Strong leaders create environments where disagreement is encouraged.
9. Sustainable success comes from continuous learning and reinvention.

Resources Mentioned:

1. ProcedureFlow – Enterprise knowledge management platform - https://procedureflow.com/
2. CNBC – Financial markets media reference

Notable Quotes:

1. “ There really isn't a lot of real financial literacy. We really don't talk about - what do you do with money?” - Sarah Jeanneault
2. ”But what I don't want anyone to believe is that tomorrow you can make a million dollars in the S&P because that is not true. There's no lottery ticket to this journey.” - Sarah Jeanneault
3. “ I think I'm most proud of doing quite well in finance … someone who really struggled in school with math.” - Sarah Jeanneault
4. “Stocks go up, sideways, or down — that’s it.” - Sarah Jeanneault
5. “If you think you're gonna go from education, whatever it is, university, high school, wherever you go, and then learning stops, like go start your own business and try not to learn.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
6. “I would say that one of the key components to the most successful people that we've had on the show … the key component that they have threaded through there is they’re learners” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Sarah Jeanneault is the Vice President of Marketing at ProcedureFlow, where she’s helping redefine customer experience in the age of AI. With over 20 years of leadership across fintech, wealth management, and brokerage services, Sarah is an award-winning executive, speaker, and founder who brings both personal passion and professional expertise to the table.

In 2023, she was recognized as one of the Top 10 Women Leaders in Finance in the U.S. Known for her dynamic mix of strategic vision and human-centered leadership, Sarah believes lasting success comes from having a goal, a dream, and the determination to pursue it—along with a willingness to keep learning and growing.

Links

LinkedIn:https://ca.linkedin.com/in/iam-sarah-potter

Website: https://procedureflow.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Procedureflow

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/procedureflow

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thedwaynekerriganpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dwaynekerriganpodcast/

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwayne-kerrigan-998113281/

Website: http://www.dwaynekerrigan.com

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Robyn Benincasa returns to go deeper on one of the most misunderstood elements of leadership: commitment when motivation fades. Drawing from decades of adventure racing, firefighting, and nonprofit leadership, Robyn explains why elite teams don’t wait to feel ready — they move forward anyway.

Together with Dwayne Kerrigan, Robyn unpacks the difference between confidence and ego, why standing still is often more dangerous than moving imperfectly, and how innovation only emerges when teams focus on how to win, not how to avoid losing. Through unforgettable stories involving Steve Gurney, creative rule-bending, and suffering with grace, she illustrates how forward momentum unlocks answers that planning alone never will.

The conversation culminates with a deep dive into Project Athena, the nonprofit Robyn founded to help survivors of medical and traumatic setbacks reclaim identity, confidence, and purpose through team-based endurance adventures. This episode is a masterclass in leadership under pressure, culture design, and why the ability to suffer well — together — is a competitive advantage in business and in life.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

00:00 – Robyn explains commitment through action, not emotion.

02:00 – Dwayne connects mentorship, influence, and leadership responsibility.

05:00 – Why being willing to be a beginner fuels innovation.

07:30 – Failure, repetition, and learning through action.

10:30 – Why preparation paralysis keeps people stuck.

13:30 – Emotions, discipline, and not letting feelings run your life.

16:00 – “Winning is that way” and the mindset shift that sparks innovation.

18:30 – Steve Gurney stories and thinking inside the rules vs. white space.

22:00 – Team selection, culture fit, and suffering equally.

26:00 – Ego vs. confidence and rotating leadership by strength.

30:00 – Why top-down leadership fails in complex environments.

34:00 – Relinquishing ego to avoid slowing the entire team down.

38:00 – Project Athena’s mission and creating comeback identities.

43:00 – How shared suffering builds lifelong trust and leadership.

48:00 – “Excellent suffering” and using adversity as an advantage.

52:00 – Robyn’s six hip surgeries and redefining resilience.

54:00 – Where to find Robyn, Project Athena, and closing reflections.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Commitment is demonstrated by action, not emotion.
2. Feelings can inform decisions, but they should never rule them.
3. Forward momentum creates clarity; standing still creates fear.
4. Innovation comes from operating in the white space.
5. Helping others is the healthiest outlet for ego.
6. Identity is shaped by comeback stories, not setbacks.

NOTABLE QUOTES:

“ I show my commitment to my goals by what I do, regardless of how I feel.” - Robyn Benincasa

“ Commitment starts when the fun stops, right? I mean, you're not actually showing your commitment until shit's not fun anymore.” - Robyn Benincasa

“There’s a difference between confidence and ego” - Robyn Benincasa

“ Anybody can sail a ship in calm waters, but when the shit hits the fan, where are you? - Dwayne Kerrigan

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

1. Project Athena – projectathena.org
2. RobynBenincasa.com – leadership resources, blog, free TEAMWORK PDF
3. TEAMWORK Framework (Robyn Benincasa)
4. Steve Gurney – adventure racing innovation examples
5. Adventure Racing World Championships
6. Project Athena Adventures (San Diego Coast Walk, Grand Canyon Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim, Keys to Recovery, Zion Traverse)

As a two-time World Champion Adventure racer, San Diego Firefighter, and CNN Hero, Robyn Benincasa knows a thing or two about creating Human Synergy, or as she puts it, “That magic that allows ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things together.” Through harrowing experiences in places like the jungles of Borneo and the Himalayan peaks, Robyn has studied the good, the bad, and the not-so-pretty of Extreme Teamwork. Her refreshing and unique techniques build and foster impactful, inspired teams that succeed against all odds and turn setbacks into comebacks.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynbenincasa/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RobynBenincasa

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RobynBenincasaSpeaker

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robynbenincasa/

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

Dwayne Kerrigan sits down with world-class endurance athlete, firefighter, nonprofit founder, and keynote speaker Robyn Benincasa to unpack what truly separates great teams from the rest.

Drawing from decades of extreme adventure racing, Robyn shares how elite teams win not by being the most talented, but by being the most committed to each other. She introduces her powerful TEAMWORK framework, revealing why total commitment, empathy, adversity management, mutual respect, and relinquishing ego are the real competitive advantages—whether you’re racing through jungles or leading a modern organization.

Through unforgettable stories—including hallucinations after days without sleep, tying boats together to beat world champions, and redefining leadership mid-race—Robyn shows how purpose, preparation, creativity, and shared ownership create cultures that don’t just survive pressure… they win because of it.

This episode is a masterclass in leadership, resilience, and building teams that operate as one heart, one mind, especially when the stakes are high and the path forward is uncertain.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

00:00 – Robyn opens with the defining trait of elite teammates: leaving ego at the start line.

01:00 – Dwayne formally introduces Robyn and outlines her extraordinary background.

03:00 – Robyn shares discovering kayaking after hip surgery and focusing on what she could do.

06:30 – Why progress toward a meaningful goal is what makes humans feel alive.

10:30 – Competing to explore personal limits rather than seeking validation or approval.

14:00 – Why great teams care more about each other than themselves.

18:00 – How Robyn accidentally became a speaker after Fast Company’s “Extreme Teamwork”

21:30 – The importance of leaving ego behind and accepting help to win as a team.

25:30 – The “Steve Gurney Missile” story and choosing to race to win instead of not lose.

30:00 – Creativity, calculated risk, and living in your strengths under pressure.

34:30 – Relinquishing ego, rotating leadership, and leading based on strengths—not titles.

39:00 – Hallucinations, extreme fatigue, and supporting teammates through suffering.

42:00 – Kinetic leadership and adapting leadership styles to what the team needs.

45:30 – Purpose, coaching influence, and how early mentors shaped Robyn’s drive.

50:30 – Innovation, self-awareness, and evolving by leaning into strengths.

56:00 – Finding a greater purpose in business.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Winning teams prioritize commitment to each other, not individual performance.
2. Progress toward a meaningful goal is what makes humans feel alive.
3. Creativity and innovation emerge when teams operate from trust and purpose.
4. Leadership should rotate based on strengths, not titles or tenure.
5. Accepting help is not a weakness, it’s how teams move faster and farther.
6. Great leaders show people how amazing they are, not how amazing the leader is.

NOTABLE QUOTES:

“ I feel weird when I don't have a goal. I get my juju, I get my energy from progress.” - Robyn Benincasa

“ I think humans really feel alive when they're progressing towards a goal.” - Robyn Benincasa

“Winning is that way.” - Robyn Benincasa

”You don't inspire people by showing them how amazing you are, you inspire people by showing them how amazing they are.” - Robyn Benincasa

“ In business, if you're not innovating, you're, you're dying.” - Dwayne Kerrigan

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

1. Project Athena (founded by Robyn Benincasa)
2. Fast Company Magazine – Extreme Teamwork feature
3. Adventure Racing World Championships
4. Guinness World Records (endurance paddling)
5. TEAMWORK framework (Total Commitment, Empathy, Adversity Management, Mutual Respect, We-thinking, Ownership, Relinquishment of ego)
6. Daniel Goleman – Emotional Intelligence (leadership styles reference)

As a two-time World Champion Adventure racer, San Diego Firefighter, and CNN Hero, Robyn Benincasa knows a thing or two about creating Human Synergy, or as she puts it, “That magic that allows ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things together.” Through harrowing experiences in places like the jungles of Borneo and the Himalayan peaks, Robyn has studied the good, the bad, and the not-so-pretty of Extreme Teamwork. Her refreshing and unique techniques build and foster impactful, inspired teams that succeed against all odds and turn setbacks into comebacks.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynbenincasa/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RobynBenincasa

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RobynBenincasaSpeaker

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robynbenincasa/

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Michael Grandjean shares the emotional and psychological turning point that allowed him to rebuild his life and career after profound loss. From a raw moment of self-forgiveness in the mountains of Morocco to the daily discipline of “kicking the can,” Michael walks through the mindset shifts, rituals, and relentless patience required to climb out of depression, debt, and despair.

Together with Dwayne Kerrigan, this episode explores the role of brotherhood, leverage, honest self-reflection, and creating a compelling new story when the old one no longer serves you. This is a masterclass in resilience, identity rebuilding, and what it truly takes to come back stronger — with wisdom, humility, and purpose.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Michael opens with the realization that self-forgiveness was required to move forward.

01:00 – Episode introduction and framing this as Part 2 of Michael’s comeback story.

02:00 – The Morocco mastermind trip and being forced to confront the truth.

05:00 – Emotional breakthrough on the mountain and the decision to rebuild.

07:30 – Creating the Three Ps: plan, persistence, and patience.

09:00 – “Kick the can” explained and committing to daily forward movement.

12:00 – Brotherhood, accountability, and why we’re not meant to do life alone.

16:00 – Letting go of guilt, disappointment, and the need for self-forgiveness.

20:00 – Depression, isolation, and breaking life down to “just get through today.”

24:00 – Writing the plan on a whiteboard and becoming resourceful again.

30:00 – Changing the internal story to create a compelling future.

36:00 – Writing goals again, paying off debt, and getting back to zero.

42:00 – Daily mantras, rituals, and retraining the mind.

48:00 – Shifting from hourly work to profit-based consulting and rebuilding cash flow.

01:01:00 – Final reflections, where to find Michael, and the podcast disclaimer.

Key Takeaways:

1. Self-forgiveness is a prerequisite for real forward movement.
2. Progress is built daily through patience, persistence, and simple actions.
3. You cannot rebuild alone - community and accountability matter.
4. Changing your internal story changes your future trajectory.
5. Rituals, mantras, and physiology are tools for rewiring the mind.

Resources Mentioned:

1. Checkmate: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1365025640684229
2. Tony Robbins – Date With Destiny
3. Mastermind
4. Personal goal-setting and written planning practices
5. Daily mantras and meditation rituals
6. Whiteboard strategic planning

Notable Quotes:

1. “The past is the past. The past doesn't equal the future.” - Michael Grandjean
2. “You have to change your story … If you’re living in a shitty story, you’re going to stay in a shitty story.” - Michael Grandjean
3. ”When you're in the bottom you can't see the top. And that's the hardest part of trying to figure out how to get out of it.” - Michael Grandjean
4. “We are not meant to walk through this world alone. Humanity is not meant to walk through this world alone.” - Dwayne Kerrigan
5. “Luck is labour under correct knowledge” - Dwayne Kerrigan

Michael Grandjean is a serial entrepreneur whose journey from Navy corpsman to construction industry leader exemplifies the American spirit of perseverance and reinvention. His story isn't just about building businesses, it's about getting back up, learning from failure, and proving that resilience isn't just surviving the fall, but using it as a foundation for what comes next.

Links:

Website: itsmissioncritical.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/big.mikeg

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelgrandjean

Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan

Facebook

Instagram

Linked In

Website

Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.