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This week on The Latter Day Lens, Matt, Shawn, and Graham tackle a thought-provoking lineup of topics that cut to the heart of justice, liberty, and the proper role of government. We dive deep into the surprising reality of America's low crime clearance rates and ask if it's time for a new approach to deterring crime. Then, we pivot to a local controversy in Provo, Utah, where a popular dance fitness program was suddenly shut down, sparking a debate about local control and individual liberty – and whether one always serves the other. Finally, we examine the Trump administration's approach to undocumented workers and employer accountability. Plus, in "The Big Question," we confront the alarming truth about a new, more toxic ingredient in weedkillers and ponder the government's moral obligation to protect its citizens from harmful substances. Tune in for a lively and insightful discussion!

Thought Provoker & Topic 1: The State of Justice - Why Are So Many Crimes Unsolved?

• The Data: We discuss the shocking reality of low crime clearance rates in the U.S., particularly for murders and car thefts, and how America compares to other developed nations.
• The Question: Given that the U.S. incarcerates more people than almost any other country, is our current system effective in deterring crime? What "better way" might we find?

Topic 2: Local Control vs. Individual Liberty - The Provo Dance Class Controversy

• The Story: We break down the unexpected closure of the "Dirtylicious Dance Fitness" program at the Provo Recreation Center after six years, and the city's reasoning.
• Shawn's Take: Shawn, a proponent of local government control, weighs in.
• The Debate: Does this example demonstrate how local control can inadvertently reduce liberty? Is local control a scriptural principle or more of a political preference?

Topic 3: Immigration Enforcement - Who Should Be Held Accountable?

• The Policy: We examine the Trump administration's stated vow to hold companies accountable for employing undocumented workers.
• The Reality: Why have DHS enforcement operations overwhelmingly focused on arresting workers rather than punishing employers?
• The Discussion: Is this the right approach? Should employers who knowingly hire undocumented individuals face more significant repercussions?

The Big Question: Government's Role in Public Safety - The Diquat Dilemma

• The Concern: We uncover the troubling facts about diquat, the highly toxic herbicide ingredient now replacing glyphosate in Roundup, which is banned in many other developed nations.
• The EPA's Stance: Why has the EPA resisted calls for a ban, even as products containing diquat hit U.S. shelves?
• The Core Question: What is the proper role of government in regulating potentially harmful products? If a government knows a substance can harm its citizens, does it have a moral obligation to ban it, or at least warn its citizens?

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Host Introduction
02:49 Understanding Propaganda and Its Implications
05:45 Crime Rates and the Effectiveness of Punishment
08:48 Rethinking the Criminal Justice System
11:32 Community Standards and Local Government Decisions
14:27 The Role of Local Government in Providing Services
25:59 Local Control and Scriptural Principles
28:32 Government's Role in Community Standards
30:09 Immigration and Employer Accountability
34:27 The Role of Government in Public Health
47:11 Trust in Government vs. Free Market Solutions
 

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review "The Latter Day Lens" wherever you listen to podcasts! 

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This episode of Latter Day Lens dives into some heavy-hitting topics, from the nature of propaganda in foundational American documents to the complexities of the BYU Honor Code and the nuanced role of conflict in societal change.

Here's a breakdown of the key discussions:

• Propaganda: Good or Bad? The hosts grapple with the definition of propaganda, debating whether historical documents like the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers, or even public health campaigns like "Smoking Kills," qualify. Matt argues that if a message is intended to manipulate or is based on carefully selected (or omitted) truths, it's propaganda, regardless of its perceived positive outcome. He points out that even well-intentioned "propaganda" can lead to a skewed understanding of history, creating ongoing societal challenges. Levi, on the other hand, suggests that if something is honestly believed and not intended to deceive, it may not be harmful, even if it could be labeled as propaganda. 
• The Pareto Principle and Human Nature: Shawn introduces the Pareto Principle (the 80/20 rule), suggesting it applies to various aspects of life, including human behavior and organizational effectiveness. He even attempts to connect it to scriptural concepts like "almost all men" exercising unrighteous dominion, implying that a minority often drives the majority of outcomes, both positive and negative. While the hosts playfully debate its "doctrinal" status, the principle is explored as a potential framework for understanding distribution of effort, waste, and even spiritual progress.
• Trustees vs. Delegates in Government: The conversation shifts to the role of elected officials, specifically in the context of the Big Beautiful Bill. The hosts discuss whether representatives should act as "delegates" (reflecting the direct will of their constituents) or "trustees" (making decisions based on their own informed judgment for the perceived best interest of their constituents). Matt strongly advocates for the trustee model, especially for complex issues like the federal budget, arguing that public opinion often lacks the necessary understanding. Levi agrees, emphasizing the importance of voting for character in leaders who can navigate unforeseen crises.
• BYU Honor Code's Application: The discussion tackles the ongoing debate about the BYU Honor Code, particularly the perception that it's not applied uniformly. Matt, drawing from his experience as a YSA bishop, provides a concrete example of disparate treatment between ecclesiastical and Honor Code Office processes, even for similar infractions. 
• Addressing Historical Injustice and Societal Conflict: The episode concludes with a deep dive into how to address historical injustices, using the example of a Confederate statue's relocation in North Carolina. The hosts introduce sociological theories: "functionalism" (slow, cautious change to preserve societal stability) versus "conflict theory" (highlighting existing societal conflicts to drive change, even if it causes disruption). The conversation explores the nature of "peace" in politics and whether it means the absence of conflict or actively addressing underlying issues, even if it leads to discomfort. The distinction between peaceful protest and destructive rioting is also a key point of contention.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Homework Discussion
00:58 The Nature of Propaganda
05:54 Debating Historical Documents as Propaganda
11:49 The Pareto Principle and Its Implications
23:55 Trustees vs. Delegates in Representation
31:28 BYU Honor Code Controversy
38:31 Conflict Theory vs. Functionalism in Society

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In this episode, Matt, Shawn, and Marc dive into some of the most pressing and thought-provoking issues of our time:

• Robert Kiyosaki's Hyperinflation Warning: We kick off by discussing "Rich Dad Poor Dad" author Robert Kiyosaki's dire predictions for the US economy, including impending hyperinflation and a financial wipeout for millions. He points to weak demand for US bonds and a Moody's downgrade as contributing factors. The hosts explore Kiyosaki's recommended solutions – investing in gold, silver, and Bitcoin – and ask the crucial questions: Are you worried about hyperinflation in the US? And what practical steps should we take to protect ourselves against economic downturns?
• The Disparate Job Market of May 2025: Next, we analyze the latest jobs numbers, revealing a mixed bag across industries. While sectors like Financial Activities and Education and Health Services boast low unemployment rates, Leisure and Hospitality, Wholesale and Retail Trade, and Information are facing significant challenges. This disparity sparks a conversation about political promises from both Biden and Trump to help everyone economically, leading to the big question: Is it truly possible for government policies to benefit all citizens, or will there always be winners and losers in the economic landscape?
• Truth and Transparency in Geopolitics: Trump, Khamenei, and Iran's Nuclear Program: The discussion then shifts to the conflicting narratives surrounding recent US strikes on Iran's nuclear sites. Donald Trump claims the program was "obliterated," while Ayatollah Ali Khamenei downplays the damage. This stark contrast prompts an examination of honesty in public discourse, particularly for political leaders. We ask: Does this situation underscore the critical importance of being completely honest in everything we do? And should we prioritize honesty more heavily when choosing which political leaders to support?
• Synthetic Human DNA: Playing God or Divine Inspiration? Finally, we tackle "The Big Question": a controversial project funded by the Wellcome Trust to create artificial human DNA. This groundbreaking research aims to develop treatments for incurable diseases and promote healthier aging, but it also raises profound ethical concerns about "designer babies," biological weapons, and enhanced humans. With many church members opposing stem cell research due to its embryonic origins, this new avenue presents an opportunity for genetic cures without reproductive interference. We grapple with the profound theological and ethical dilemma: Is the creation of synthetic DNA inspired by God for the benefit of humanity, or is it mankind attempting to play God?

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Upcoming Events
03:08 School Vouchers and Public Education
07:35 Concerns About Hyperinflation
13:59 Government Policies and Employment
20:30 The Role of Honesty in Politics
25:35 The Role of Honesty in Leadership
28:43 Propaganda: A Double-Edged Sword
35:11 Synthetic DNA: Playing God or Divine Inspiration?
46:44 The Future of Medicine and Ethics

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 In this episode, Matt, Shawn, and Linda dive headfirst into the swirling currents of contemporary American challenges. We'll start by grappling with Professor Marci Shore's stark warnings of civil war and her decision to leave the U.S., prompting us to question our moral obligations in a "democratic emergency." Then, we pivot to the realm of political rhetoric, dissecting Senator Mike Lee's controversial social media post and exploring the line between free speech and harmful incitement. Finally, we'll scrutinize Utah's eyebrow-raising school voucher program, examining how taxpayer money is being spent and if it truly represents the right approach to education funding. Join us as we confront these pressing issues and seek to understand their broader implications for our society. 

The Big Question: In the April 2025 general conference, Elder Anderson spoke about abortion. He specifically said that what he said, "is not a political position" but "a moral law confirmed by the Lord through His prophets." Despite this, this talk is going to influence people's political positions. The question is this: how should people approach this general conference talk? If a person reads the talk and thinks about politics, are they missing out on something of greater importance than the political issue of abortion?

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
02:57 Discussion on Civil War Fears in America
10:12 Understanding Democracy and Civil War Dynamics
15:53 Political Responses and Social Media Conduct
21:40 Navigating Social Media and Personal Connections
24:14 Righteous Indignation vs. Christ-like Charity
28:21 The Utah Voucher Program: A Controversial Approach
32:52 Balancing Oversight and Parental Choice in Education
41:20 Education as a Right and Public Funding
53:01 Navigating Politics and Morality in Religious Teachings

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Join Matt, Shawn, and Melanie this week as they dive into some of the biggest ideas shaping our world, from the presence of the US military on home soil to the cutting edge of AI in dating, the public display of celebrity faith, and fundamental questions about religious freedom.

Military Visibility: A New Era?

Last Saturday, Washington D.C. hosted a military parade marking the Army's 250th anniversary. Concurrently, the Trump administration deployed the National Guard and US Marines to address civil unrest and rioting in Los Angeles. Many Americans reacted with concern to these more visible displays of military might domestically. We'll explore:

• The implications of increased military presence in US cities.
• Public perception of domestic military operations.
• The balance between security and civil liberties when US military forces are deployed internally.

AI Dating & Digital Compatibility

A brand-new dating app is revolutionizing matchmaking by analyzing your 5,000 most recent internet searches to create a "Browse personality profile." This AI-powered dating platform suggests compatible partners without even using photos. We're asking:

• Can AI algorithms predict true compatibility better than traditional profiles?
• The pros and cons of data-driven dating and privacy.
• Is sharing your internet search history the future of finding love?

Celebrity Faith & Public Reaction

Bear Grylls and Justin Bieber have both recently become more public about their Christian faith. This openness has sparked varied responses, with some accusing Justin Bieber of cult involvement. We'll discuss:

• The influence of celebrities sharing their faith.
• How public religious expression by famous figures affects individual openness.
• Navigating negative reactions to Christian faith in the public eye.

The Big Question: Oak Flat and Religious Liberty Concerns

The US Supreme Court recently allowed a lower court ruling to stand, permitting the transfer of Oak Flat, a sacred site to the Western Apache Indians, to a copper mining company. Justice Gorsuch's dissent highlighted the destruction of an ancient tribal worship site and the lack of a hearing for the Apache. This decision is widely seen as a direct assault on the religious liberties of Native Americans. We'll delve into:

• The impact of the Oak Flat decision on tribal religious rights.
• Whether a threat to the religious freedom of one group jeopardizes overall religious freedom in the United States.
• Understanding the broader implications for First Amendment rights and religious land use.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
01:57 Listener Feedback and Mission Stories Podcast
06:06 Discussion on Military Presence and Public Safety
13:25 Debate on Military Intervention in Protests
17:55 Exploring New Dating App Concepts
26:07 Celebrity Influence on Faith and Public Perception
35:17 Religious Liberty and Public Lands

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We open this episode with a moment of reflection, discussing the somber news regarding Ukrainian refugees in Utah and the ongoing challenges many face with immigration and refugee status.

We then dive into a listener's compelling question: "Is America an aristocracy in disguise?" This sparks a lively debate among Matt, Shawn, and Levi about the role of inherited wealth and political connections in American leadership, and whether the nation truly lives up to its ideals of opportunity for all.

Next, we tackle some timely "Thought Provokers" starting with JD Vance's recent assertion: "America is not just an idea. It is a group of people with shared values and a common history." We dissect this statement, exploring various interpretations of American identity, the importance of compromise, and the potential implications of such a definition.

The conversation then shifts to a pressing global issue: the devastating conflict in Gaza. We grapple with the reported 50,000 casualties, including 13,000 children, and question why media coverage often seems limited. The discussion extends to what can realistically be done and our collective responsibility as Latter-day Saints in the face of such profound humanitarian suffering.

Following this, we analyze the impact of the abandonment of the Fairness Doctrine in the 1980s, a decision many argue directly led to our current polarized media landscape. We debate whether this polarization was inevitable, how we might possibly return to a shared understanding of reality, and what it truly means for "the market" to control the flow of information.

Finally, we delve into the Big Question of the episode: the nature of immutable laws—whether of physics, man, or God. Drawing on an intriguing concept from physics where individual particles defy prediction but exhibit predictable collective behavior through probability, we ask: If such "laws" are often observed tendencies of collective actions, are there truly immutable laws? We explore how this philosophical inquiry might apply to human laws, natural laws, and even the "laws of kingdoms of glory" mentioned in D&C 88:24-25, questioning if laws are perhaps a divine tool to help mortals comprehend the eternal, rather than rigid, unchangeable strictures.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Current Events
02:52 Political Aristocracy: Myth or Reality?
05:59 Defining America: Ideas vs. People
08:55 The Role of Compromise in American Society
11:57 Understanding the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
15:02 Media Coverage and Public Perception
18:08 The Complexity of Solutions
21:06 The Fairness Doctrine and Media Polarization
33:05 The Impact of Media Regulation on Polarization
36:08 The Role of Capitalism in Media Bias
39:03 The Evolution of Partisan Media
42:04 Government vs. Market Control of Media
44:46 The Nature of Truth and Laws
57:49 Exploring Universal Laws and Probabilities

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Join Matt, Shawn, and Marc on the Latter-day Lens podcast for a lively and thought-provoking discussion that spans centuries and tackles complex moral questions.

In this episode, we kick off with a fascinating dive into Colonial Heritage Festivals and Revolutionary War reenactment, as Marc shares his experiences representing the 33rd Regiment of Foot. Learn what makes these historical events so unique and how they differ from a Renaissance Faire.

Then, the conversation shifts to modern-day ethical dilemmas. We tackle the intriguing "thought provoker": What would you do if a loved one escaped from jail? The hosts explore the complexities of family loyalty versus upholding the law, debating the concepts of malum in se and malum prohibitum.

Next, we delve into the controversial topic of presidential pardons. We discuss recent pardons granted by President Trump, including the case of NBA Youngboy, and examine the arguments for and against the executive power of clemency. Do victims have a valid point when pardons are issued? We explore historical examples and the potential for abuse of this significant presidential authority.

Finally, we address a timely issue for BYU football fans: the dilemma surrounding a civil lawsuit filed against BYU's quarterback regarding a sexual assault claim and its implications for the BYU Honor Code. Should the university jeopardize its football season by expelling a key player based on an accusation?

Tune in for an engaging debate on justice, mercy, personal responsibility, and institutional integrity, all through a Latter-day Lens.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Colonial Festivals
02:57 Family Loyalty and Legal Dilemmas
06:01 Pardons and Justice in Politics
22:06 The Complexity of Presidential Pardons
24:40 Evaluating the Effectiveness of Pardons
25:08 BYU's Honor Code Dilemma
32:00 Authority and Accountability in Politics
42:59 The Role of Faith in Political Decisions

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This week on the Latter-day Lens, hosts Matt and Sean dive into hot-button topics that spark lively debate.

First, they tackle recent research suggesting that college can actually make students more conservative depending on their major. Is it the professors, the self-selection of students, or something else entirely? Matt and Sean explore the implications of this finding and debate whether parents should guide their kids toward specific majors to influence their political views. They also discuss the broader purpose of higher education and whether academic research like this is helpful or harmful.

Then, the conversation shifts to a contentious question: Is it wrong to call nostalgia for certain periods of the past "racism"? Matt and Sean unpack the complexities of historical memory, the celebration of figures like Civil War generals, and the ongoing debate about the meaning and impact of racism in modern society. They challenge each other to define what constitutes racism and discuss the potential dangers of diluting the term.

Finally, in The Big Question segment, Matt shares insights from his interview with Justice Tom Griffith, an appellate court justice on the D.C. Court of Appeals. They discuss the impartiality of judges and the character of Supreme Court justices, including anecdotes about Justices Sotomayor and Kagan. This leads to a reflection on whether to err on the side of mercy when judging politicians and how to be better missionaries, inspired by Justice Griffith's example of inviting Supreme Court justices to a temple open house.

Keywords
college majors, political ideology, parental influence, racism, nostalgia, California demographics, education, social sciences, conservatism, liberalism, Russia, Ukraine, Trump, democracy, Supreme Court, judicial impartiality, missionary work, bias, skepticism, global politics

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Nostalgia for the Past
02:52 The Impact of College Majors on Political Ideology
10:04 Parental Influence on Political Beliefs
14:44 Racism and Nostalgia in Politics
21:50 California's Demographic Changes and Racism
27:20 The Dangers of Diluting Racism
30:27 Cherry Picking Evidence and Bias in Perspectives
31:15 The Ongoing Conflict: Russia and Ukraine
33:08 Ukraine's Path to Democracy and Freedom
35:12 Trump's Stance on Russia and Global Politics
37:11 Europe's Role in Supporting Ukraine
38:55 Insights from Justice Tom Griffith
40:12 Judicial Impartiality and Influence
43:08 The Humanity of Supreme Court Justices
44:55 Erring on the Side of Mercy in Judgment
46:44 Skepticism Towards Power and Authority
52:05 The Importance of Missionary Work
55:14 Inviting Others to Experience Faith
58:49 Teasing Future Projects and Content

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In this intellectually stimulating episode, Matt, Shawn, and Melanie explore complex intersections of politics, education, immigration policy, and artificial intelligence ethics. Our discussion examines vocational education's resurgence, controversial refugee policies, presidential decision-making, and the emergence 

Education Policy Debate High schools across America are forming strategic partnerships with employers to prepare students for lucrative skilled trades, with companies actively recruiting before graduation due to workforce shortages created by retiring baby boomers. These revitalized vocational programs enable graduates to earn $50,000-$75,000 annually without college debt. We consider whether American secondary education has overemphasized college preparation at the expense of alternative career pathways.

Immigration Ethics and Policy The Trump administration has implemented an executive order allowing entry to 59 White South African Afrikaners as refugees while maintaining broader refugee program suspensions. This selective policy has provoked significant institutional opposition, including the Episcopal Church's withdrawal from government partnership. We analyze whether prioritizing this specific demographic while deporting Venezuelan migrants constitutes systemic racism in immigration policy.

Presidential Leadership and Ethics A recently published report details how President Biden's cognitive decline significantly impacted his presidency, revealing struggles with limited productive hours, memory issues, and communication difficulties that progressively worsened. The report suggests Biden resisted acknowledging these limitations, ultimately delaying his withdrawal from the 2024 presidential race until after a poorly received debate performance against Trump. We examine the ethical implications of presidential inner circles concealing health concerns from the public and the moral obligations of advisors in such situations.

The Philosophical Question: AI Ethics Development Anthropic's comprehensive analysis of 700,000 Claude AI conversations has revealed the emergence of what appears to be an internal moral framework, with the AI system expressing over 3,000 distinct values that adapt contextually similar to human ethical reasoning. Researchers identified "immovable values" centered on intellectual honesty and harm prevention that Claude actively defends against challenges, suggesting AI systems inevitably make value judgments beyond their explicit programming. We consider the profound question of how these emergent AI ethical frameworks should interact with established human moral codes and societal norms.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Special Guests
01:48 Nostalgia and Personal Stories
02:41 Current Events and Political Commentary
08:41 Education and Vocational Training
14:10 Racism in Immigration Policy
23:48 Examining Racism and Bigotry in Politics
30:09 Cognitive Decline and Leadership Responsibilities
39:10 AI and Moral Codes: A New Frontier
50:38 Diversity of Experience in Shaping Morality

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In this episode, Matt, Shawn, and Levi engage in a thought-provoking discussion about three distinct topics that challenge conventional thinking within their community. The conversation begins with Levi's bold assertion that "self-reliance is a Satanic doctrine," arguing that interdependence rather than self-sufficiency is the true gospel principle. This leads to a nuanced debate about what self-reliance actually means in both spiritual and economic contexts, with Matt defending the church's official position while acknowledging potential misinterpretations.

The trio then examines a Gallup/JP Morgan study on entrepreneurship in America, exploring how access to capital and credit scores impact business success, particularly for minority business owners. This evolves into a broader discussion about financial literacy education and whether schools should prioritize teaching practical money management skills.

Finally, they challenge the common perception among church members that academia is hostile to religious expression. Drawing from their personal experiences in higher education, Matt and Levi suggest that secular academic institutions are often more welcoming of diverse religious perspectives than commonly believed, potentially more so than religious institutions themselves.

Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain their characteristic blend of serious theological discussion, political commentary, and good-natured ribbing, demonstrating their different ideological perspectives while maintaining mutual respect.

Episode Topics:

• The concept of self-reliance in LDS doctrine and its potential misapplications
• Financial literacy, credit scores, and their impact on entrepreneurial success
• Religious expression in secular academic settings
• The Ukraine-US Mineral Agreement and its implications

Chapters

00:01 - Introduction and catching up 

09:11 - Levi's controversial take on self-reliance as a doctrine 

26:19 - Discussion of entrepreneurship, capital access, and credit scores 

41:15 - The US-Ukraine Mineral Agreement and Trump's foreign policy 

48:01 - Religious expression in secular academia