Did you know the order you eat foods could impact how effectively your body utilizes it? Is when you eat as important as what you eat? 

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• Nutrisense Blog
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• The Ozempic Episode
• The Probiotics and Metabolism Episode

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EPISODE SUMMARY

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50

What Is Meal Sequencing?

Have you ever considered that the order in which you eat food could impact how effectively your body utilizes its nutrients? Welcome to the world of meal sequencing – an art and science that goes beyond just what you eat, to when you eat it or rather, in what order you eat it.

Is meal sequencing the same as food sequencing?

For the most part, yes. Meal sequencing is the strategic ordering of eating different food groups at different times within a meal to optimize digestion and establish more stable blood glucose levels.

What food order do people use if they're focusing on Meal Sequencing?

Experts recommend starting the meal with protein or fat (plus fiber, if possible) in the form of a small appetizer or salad rich in non-starchy carbohydrates (i.e. non-starchy vegetables.) Starting in this specific order as a part of the meal sequence has been shown to increase GLP-1 production. Next, the main course typically consists of eating protein first, followed by carbohydrates, with most experts recommending whole grains, based on their fiber content. Opting for dessert at the end of a meal, rather than on its own, also may help avoid a higher blood sugar spike and better overall glucose response. 

What are the benefits of Meal Sequencing?

Eating in this particular order may 

• Improve digestion
• Stabilize
• Blood sugar levels
• Provide sustained energy
• Weight loss or fat loss

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

In this episode, you'll learn about the FDA-cleared medical device that's been shown in clinical trials to reduce the risk and severity of brain injury in athletes.

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• Q30.com - use code REGAN for 10% off
• Alcohol Minimalist Podcast
• The Sober September Episode
• The Kids and Concussions Episode (Part 1)
• The Kids and Concussions Episode (Part 2)
• Athletic Brewing Company

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EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, teen athletes, repetitive head impact, concussion prevention

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

0:00
If your skin doesn't know whether to breakout or wrinkle, if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans or if you want to work out with the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees a you've come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

Regan Jones 0:24
I'm your host, Regan Jones, and welcome to today's show. So this episode kicks off the second half of season seven, it is hard to believe that we are now in real-time going into the year 2024. That this is the seventh season of the podcast. As I have said a numerous times over the last couple of years, it's been a rocky couple of years, for me, and for many of us who has it not been a just a strange, strange time for but we hopefully continue to get back into whatever our newest normal is, and I'm hopeful for 2024 that it is going to be better than ever. Okay, so kicking off 2024 We're not going into any nutrition topics. Although I will give you a preview to tell you that I am about to hop on a plane in the next couple of days to head to an international nutrition conference. I haven't been back to this international nutrition conferences hasn't been held internationally since 2020. just mere weeks before the world sort of shut down was the last time that I attended this nutrition conference on an international scale. It was domestic last year and I attended it. But attending this nutrition conference often gives me some really, really challenging ideas about new nutrition and food topics to bring to you here on the podcast. I'm excited about that. But to kick off season seven, part two, we're actually talking about something that is completely really unrelated to nutrition, this could be filed under fitness, this could be filed under parenting, or just information that you likely have never been presented with. And that is the information about how a new FDA cleared device and it's actually not that new. You're gonna hear that here in the podcast, but it's new to many of us, an FDA cleared device is helping to reduce the injury problems, whatever you want to say associated would with repetitive head injury. Okay, I'm using the updated terminology right here in the beginning of the episode, because I already have the luxury of having gone through this interview and listen to all of this information. You'll listen to me start this episode, and my interview with my guest talking about concussion. And many of you probably if you have teen athletes or collegiate athletes that are in your family or even young athletes, you probably talk in terms of concussion and concussion prevention. We've had episodes related to concussions here on the podcast. But I think today's guest is a phenomenal job of helping us understand that the long term risks for our brain health is not just related to a once or twice, you know, incidents of concussion, but it's about this repetitive head injury. And my guest today is going to talk about how the topic that we're talking about the Q-Collar helps to seatbelt in an athlete's brain to help reduce the trauma associated with repetitive Head Impact. Okay, so joining me in today's episode is Suzanne Williams. Let me tell you a little bit about Suzanne. Suzanne is currently the vice president of sports marketing at q 30 innovations and they are the maker of today's topic, the Q-Collar at Q30 Innovations. Suzanne manages the company's relationships with professional and college athletes. And here's a little bit of Suzanne's background that I connect on a deeper level prior to q 30. She spent 17 years as an executive at Under Armour ating and it's transitioned from a startup to a globally recognized brand. And I say that I connect with that because Suzanne and I had a nice little conversation about Auburn University being one of the first, you know, universities to kind of take up Under Armour and many of you know or maybe you do or doubt that I'm an Auburn grad and I hope that if any of your Alabama grads don't lose you just with that acknowledging or or even Georgia grads, I've come to realize that even University of Georgia people don't necessarily like Auburn folks as much as I wish that they did. But anyway, so that was something that we connected on because I vividly remember when Auburn made that transition over to Under Armour and so she has just an extremely impressive background. She is also a mother to to young athletes, and I think that what you're going to hear in today's episode is just the vital importance of understanding what tools are available specifically the Q-Collar

5:00
as a tool to reduce the potential impact for head injury and repetitive head impact on our athletes. Okay, so with that, I'll say Suzanne, welcome to the show.

Suzanne Williams 5:12
Thanks, Regan. I'm so excited to be here.

Regan Jones

Thank you so much for joining me. This is one of those interviews that as I told you, before we started recording is way overdue. And the reason it's overdue as listeners of this podcast, no, you know, this podcast is called This Unmillennial Life, which translates to mostly my Unmillennial Life, things that are happening in my life, kids, you know, things, people who listen to the show, you've heard me talk about my children, they've kind of actually grown up here on the show, and I've done an episode in the past about concussions. And from a nutrition standpoint, and Suzanne, I don't know that, you know, we didn't mention it ahead of time. I'm a registered dietitian. So we've talked about, you know, concussion protocol, the importance of

5:56
omega threes and even discussed creating on the podcast, you know, just in terms of that aspect. But one of the most important things that we've done, I think, in our family's life, is get a Q-Collar for my older son, who is a lacrosse player to wear after he experienced his first concussion. And as I was telling you, and I'll say to the listeners, you know, when people see this Q-Collar that my son wears, they will inevitably ask, what is that thing around your son's deck, and I'm able to tell them, It's a Q-Collar, I'm able to tell them, you know, that it's really intended to reduce his risk for concussion, but I cannot tell them how it works. So that's what you're gonna do here today, that and more is help listeners understand that because I have so many listeners who are in a similar position to me with sons and daughters that are playing lacrosse, that are playing football in a number of different sports hockey, for instance. And I really want to to help get this on their radar and help them understand. So unpack for us. How does the Q-Collar work?

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, it's a great question. And I'm excited to kind of give you the 32 second download. Because it's when you look at it, you know, it doesn't easily explain how it's working. But to give you a little bit of background on the Q-Collar, it's a class to medical device. It's FDA cleared, so it's safe, and it's effective. And what most people don't know about it is that it was actually inspired and designed to help war fighters in Afghanistan. So that was the real need for it. The US military came to a group of doctors and said, Look, our war fighters on the battlefield are experiencing high rates of TBI, traumatic brain injury, and they said, Can you build us a better helmet. And one of the doctors said, it's not the helmet, right? The helmet protects your skull from fractures, we need to make a device that protects the brain from brain slosh. Because when your brain moves within your school, that's where the injury occurs. And so this doctor said, I need to come up with an idea to create a seatbelt for the brain. And so he started focusing on jugular vein compression, which is how the Q-Collar works. So blood goes up in your head like normal, there's no changes there. But the Q-Collar puts slight pressure on the muscles outside of your jugular vein. So that's like right below your ear right behind your ear. That pressure is about the same as a necktie. So what it's doing is as bloods recirculating back to your heart, it's just compressing that jugular vein slightly, and it's leaving a backfill of about two or about one teaspoon of blood in the veins around your brain. And by doing that, it's helping to eliminate the extra space in your skull, that allows your brain to slosh. So your brain is a gelatinous material, and it sits in a bed of fluid. And when you move it moves within your skull. So it doesn't matter what helmet you're wearing. And it doesn't matter what plane surface you're on. If there's an impact, your brain can slosh within your skull. And that sloshing is what causes the injury. By backfilling that teaspoon of blood in the veins around your brain is essentially eliminating that extra space. And it's locking your brain in like a seatbelt, or like an airbag or think about bubble wrap, you know, we're bubble wrapping around your brain. So when you do have an impact, there's less opportunity for your brain to slosh, which means there's less opportunity for your brain to be injured.

Regan Jones

So the science is fascinating, and I appreciate you going through the detailed explanation of how it worked. I knew that there was something to do with the compression and blood flow, but I never really understood how that was helpful. Let so let me ask a couple of clarifying questions. When an athlete wears a Q-Collar and there is this the seatbelt for their brains, this slight bit of compression, do they notice anything different you know just in terms

10:00
of like cognitive ability, you know, like you think about like, is this? Does this feel any different to them when they're wearing the Q-Collar?

Suzanne Williams

Great question. So part of the FDA approval process was that we had to, you know, confirm that that slight amount of pressure has no adverse effects on you. So no, you won't feel it. So blood goes up like normal. You don't feel any different with that slight backfill, it doesn't change your heart rate, it doesn't change your blood oxygen levels, it doesn't change your reaction time, you don't notice it. It's essentially like you're sitting at a church service or at a wedding wearing a necktie. It's that same amount of pressure. In fact, people compress their jugular vein all the time, and you don't know it. So if you yawn, you're compressing your jugular vein. If you sleep on the side of your body at night, you're compressing that side that's down, you know, closest to the bed. If you raise your arm above your head, you're actually compressing your jugular vein on that side. So compressing your jugular vein is not new, it's not foreign. We're just creating a consistent compression so that, you know that blood just helps backfill slightly, but it doesn't change the way you feel. Sometimes athletes will say, you know, the first week or so that they're getting used to the device. They feel a heightened sense of clarity, they said this, and this is open up a little bit. They definitely feel more alert, they feel a little bit more clear headed. But there's there's no you know, biological changes that are negatively impacting your body.

Regan Jones

Okay, so a couple of other questions. Well, and one just small question, I assume that it's that jugular compression that makes the Q-Collar different than you know any other helmet or like a skullcap or any of the other, you know, things that are out there that are marketed as having an ability to, you know, protect the brain is that the main difference? That is the main difference. So we are the only device we are, like I said, at class to medical device, we are the only device on the market that has FDA clearance. And that shows it's safe. And it's actually protecting your brain. It's protecting your brain structure. I think there's a lot of confusion around you know, protecting your brain and protecting your skull. And we actually can protect you from the inside out. I have experience with some different things that I know go through FDA clearance in terms of medical devices. And without going into any needless detail about that the question that I have for you is I know with some things, there's been clinical trials that were done. So how was how was the Q-Collar validated for this FDA clearance?

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, great question, because a lot of people get confused by FDA clearance and FDA approval. So this is a class two medical device that's cleared by the FDA, they essentially mean the same thing. It's just that this is a class two device, which means it's low-risk. It's noninvasive, so it gets a clearance marker, high risk, invasive devices get approval, so think like a stent inside your heart, right? Those are higher risk devices. So this is a class two device which gets cleared. And that clearance process was really extensive. So the FDA got involved, took about five years for them to clear the device. They analyzed and looked at all of the clinical trials and the independent, peer reviewed and published studies that were done over 25 are done over a 10 year time span. And what they had to do in order to clear it is they had to prove that number one it was safe for you to wear, which it is and then number two, they had to prove that it was effective. It was actually doing what the claims were saying. And so one of the clinical trials that they really looked at the hardest was done out of the Cincinnati Children's Hospital. They found over 450 high school athletes, boys and girls, this is important because a lot of studies exclude females. As females add so many different variables to studies they can impact the outcome. So a lot of clinical trials will exclude women. The group that was doing this clinical trial was adamant that females had to be involved because of the high rate of TBI in women's soccer. They found soccer athletes, football athletes and ice hockey athletes. They MRI all their brains. So they got a baseline image of their brains. All the athletes were accelerometers. And this was done so they could assess the impacts the athletes were experiencing and the impacts they were giving so they could monitor. You know how hard how much G force their body was absorbing. And then half of those student athletes were giving Q-Collar and half or not, and they went out and played their entire seasons. And at the end of the year, they re MRI their brains and they looked at the changes in the white brain matter and

15:00
what they found were of the athletes that were wearing the Q-Collar 77% showed zero changes in their white brain matter, meaning their brain structure had not changed from the beginning of the season to the end. But for the athletes not wearing the Q-Collar 73% saw significant changes in their white brain matter. While this is important to really clarify for folks because people get really confused about concussions versus repetitive head impacts. So concussions are a subjective diagnosis, meaning there's no reliable test that proves you had one or you did it, right. So typically, it's diagnosed by an athlete symptoms. So meaning an athlete has to have a symptom for them to be diagnosed. from a research perspective, you can't study something that's subjective. So the FDA, along with these research groups agreed that using MRI DTI scans and that actually looked at your brain structure was the best way to figure out if your brain had experienced any injury, regardless of whether you had a symptom or not. Why? Now, after a football practice, we hear a lot of kids say, I'm always headachy after practice, while you're headachy, because your body has been absorbing repetitive head impacts, or athletes will say I got my bell rung, but I didn't get concussed or I felt foggy, or I woke up the next day and I was just a little bit lethargic. Those are all symptoms of repetitive head impacts. But they aren't strong enough to be diagnosed with a concussion. So by using the MRI DTI scans, they were absolutely able to see the most minut changes in the brain structure, regardless of whether an athlete had any symptom associated with it. So that is how the FDA use the clinical trials to show that the device actually protects the brain structure from changes.

Regan Jones 17:02
I know that Q callor mentions in some of its material, repetitive Head Impact, like what you've just detailed, I'm assuming now from hearing this, and this is really honestly all very enlightening and new to me because I you know, you heard me at the beginning of this interview kind of really focusing on this one concussion that my son had had. And now I'm like really thinking? Uh, wow, I hadn't even thought about it's it's from practice to tournaments, to games, it's everything that's happening. Is that why the focus is there for Q Callor? Is this repetitive Head Impact? Potential?

Suzanne Williams

Yes, right. And so here's what I always do this comparison to athletes and to athletic trainers and team positions and agents and kids is, you know, it's not one cigarette that compromises your health, right? It's years and years of cumulative use. It's not one sunburn that compromises your skin health, it's years and years of cumulative overexposure to the sun. That is the way you have to look at repetitive head impacts. It is not one hit necessarily, that's going to change it for everybody. But the years and years of cumulative impacts that add up over time, that slowly chip away at your brain structure can really affect your brain health. And so there's been numerous studies done and in fact, doctors and researchers independent of us obviously have come out and said, you know, they're not linking CTE to concussions, they're linking CTE to repetitive head impacts. It's the cumulative effect of taking repetitive hits to your brain that add up and they compromised the brain structure. And so from our perspective, if we can limit the RHI, the repetitive head impacts that are impacting your brain structure, we can limit the injury, whatever that injury is, is that injury, a diagnosed concussion? Is that injury, a headache? Is that injury feeling like you got your bell rung? Is that really an emotional change? So what we also remind athletes and doctors remind patients this is well, you know, when you have a traumatic brain injury, your symptoms can include physical things like headaches, aversion to light, you know, feeling nauseous, but they can also include emotional changes, depression, anxiety, mood swings, irrational behavior, your emotions are housing, your frontal lobe. And so when you compromise that structure, you're adding emotional changes, in addition to physical changes. And that is what we really talk to athletes about you want to protect that brain structure as much as possible.

Regan Jones

Yeah, I think that's one of the things that my perception is has really gotten on the radar of so many parents. Just understanding now, the long term risk for some of the things that you talk about some of the emotional issues that can that have inevitably come up with players who

20:00
have experienced these repetitive head impacts. So a couple of other questions that come to mind. Well, first and foremost is a very practical question. I admitted that my son has been wearing a Q-Collar for a couple of years. But you know, equipment wears out, you know, is there a timeframe? Should we have a Q-Collar? I'm thinking about - Well, he's bigger now than he was before. And this was not something that I had initially thought about asking you, but are there guidelines into when you should get into a new one? How do people understand the fit? kind of walk us through that a little bit.

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, great question again. So the way the Q-Collar works is, it's got a spring that gives it the right amount of compression or pressure to put on your jugular vein to give you the right amount of protection. That spring has about a two year lifespan two to three, depending on how often you open and close it depending on how often you use it. This was clear this was a part of the FDA clearance. So this was studied, how often you open and close it how often you wear it affects at some point that springs you know, compressive nature. So there's a measuring tool that comes with every Q-Collar, all you have to do is every time you put it on or once a season or you know, once a year, you just want to use that measuring tool, because it'll show you if the tips are in the correct place, you're getting optimal amount of compression, you're getting the optimal amount of pressure. If those tips move outside, then that just means that the spring has probably worn out and need to get a new one. The other thing that I would tell you though, is most kids outgrow it long before they wear it out. So you know, it's just like cleats, you know, if your son you know is 150 pounds in eighth grade and then by 10th grade ease 175 pounds, you know there's a good chance that his neck has gotten bigger. And so you just want to keep measuring it to make sure that a the spring is still healthy and be your son or daughter doesn't need it to go up a size based on growing.

Regan Jones

Okay. And on the Q-Collar website. Are there guidelines for you know, a kid whose 250 pounder versus you know, 150 pound or like there are there guidelines and how people can know which size to buy.

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, there are but the easiest way to do it is if you have a soft measuring tape at your house, you take a soft measuring tape, and you want to measure the very middle of their neck. So that's the skinniest part of their neck. You want to have their chin straight or down so that the neck muscles are relaxed, then you measure a second skin measurement. So it's not so the measuring tape is snug, it's very tight against the neck, that measurement will correlate to a size. So my neck measures about 11 and a half inches, I wear a size 11. And you typically go down because the Q-Collar fits like a cuff, you know there should be a two inch gap in between the two tips. And that gap is so that the pressure is off your trachea is off your windpipe. So it fits like a cuff that measurement will align to a size. And most athletes, you know, they'll get there if they get a dress shirt made and there are size 16 and a quarter dress shirt they would wear a size 16 Q-Collar.

Regan Jones

Okay. Okay, very, very helpful. I know that's one of the things that's going to be on the minds of parents. One other thing that I would ask I'm just curious, if you know are Is there any type of movement within different athletic communities to begin to make this an across-the-board requirement? You know, mouthpieces are required. I know in the lacrosse community, there has been an upgrade in what's required in terms of chest protection. You know, like for cardiac protection, if someone gets hit in the chest? Do you know if within any of the athletic communities there's a move toward making this something that they you know, require for kids to wear?

Suzanne Williams

You know, you know, that's our hope one, you know, at some point that does happen. I think right now, you know, we're new enough. Most most teams and leagues look at it like they want their athletes be educated on it, and then they can make the decision for themselves. Sure. What I tell people all the time is introducing and changing equipment is a very challenging prospect. So to give you some context, when the NFL introduced helmets for the first time making them illegal for for athletes to wear hard helmets. It took over 10 years for every player in the NFL to adopt a hard helmet. So wow, me excuse me a face mask when they introduced face masks. It took over 10 years for every NFL player to adopt a face mask in the league because it was optional. In regards to ice hockey, it took over 18 years for the entire NHL to adopt helmets. So they introduced, they allowed athletes to start wearing helmets, but they grandfathered in existing players that could opt in or opt out of helmets. And that took 18 years in the NHL before every athlete was wearing a helmet in hockey. So I always use those examples for folks to understand like, it really comes down to personal decisions, leads, teams are really hesitant to ever mandate anything. Sure. And so we always encourage athletes and their parents to be their own advocates to do their research to learn about it, and then really do what they think is best for them.

Regan Jones

Yeah, I mean, I totally understand that and definitely respect, you know, a parent's ability to kind of weigh in on what he or she wants to, to add to the equipment list for a child. I will say personally, I think that one of the things that's gotten you know, in our family, one of the things that's made it even easier to have a child wear it is the fact that he sees other people wearing it now, I mean, I told you before we started recording, we were watching an NFL game, not too long ago, and there's an NFL player wearing a Q-Collar. And I do think that small things like that, for younger children, you know, young teens or older adolescents to kind of see that on the national stage. It definitely lends I guess it's some form of credibility that maybe when something is new, and you hadn't heard of it, you really know about it lends a little bit of credibility.

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, no, and Regan, that's been my job coming to Q-Collar is, is my role has been to educate, and really help elite athletes understand, number one, What are repetitive head impacts. And then number two, how the Q-Collar helps protect you from them. So I work with our NFL athletes, I work with our PLL lacrosse, athletes, collegiate athletes, it's super rewarding. It's literally a passion mission. For me, as we spoke about I have sons, they love football, all they want to be as an NFL football player. And so for me, I really love working with our elite athletes, because they do have so much ability to to be role models for our children. And we just got a slew of amazing NFL guys that they're doing it for multiple reasons. They do it because they love the game. And they want to keep the game safe. And then they want to keep the game the way it is. They do it because they want to achieve their dreams. They're no different than our children, right. They have really high bars and dreams for themselves. They want to play multiple years in the league, they want to be, you know, franchise tags, they want to take care of their family, they want to help their team win, you know. So they, they do it because they're dedicated to their sport. And then they do it because they love their families. And they want to be there for their families. And they're incredibly gracious to work with. And I will tell you, our NFL athletes, they swear by it, you know, they feel better after games, they don't feel the fogginess, they don't feel the headaches, they sleep better at night, they feel fresh the next day. And it really has traveled through word of mouth in the locker room, that's really been our grassroots initiative has been, you know, you wear it, you care about your teammates, tell your teammates about it.

Regan Jones

And that's the word of mouth that I certainly have in mind for this particular podcast and sharing with other parents because like I said, you know, it's something that we sort of took on blindly in the hopes that it would be beneficial for my son. And now just, you know, hearing you kind of go through it, I am extremely thankful that we made that decision and extremely thankful that you know, Q-Collar has been cleared has been developed, and it's something that is available to so many people. Okay, so let me ask one more question. And then I want to make sure that people know, you know, kind of how to find Q-Collar and connect with you guys online. Is there any other feedback that you hear from athletes about wearing the Q-Collar?

Suzanne Williams

Yeah, it's really consistent. We are our largest partners, actually the military, right? So department defense, they work with over 20 Special Ops units use the Q-Collar so think Rangers marshals, Delta Force, Greenbrae seals, SWAT teams, and Secret Service, all these groups use a Q-Collar and the rewarding part is that the feedback they give us is the same as our football players as our lacrosse players, right? They feel better. They know they're doing everything they can to be protected. You know, think about these athletes, these soldiers they eat right? They train right? They recover, right? You know, they do all these things to put themselves in the position of success.

30:00
and protecting yourself is a part of that, right you want to avoid injury you want to stay available. So they they have peace of mind knowing that they are doing everything they can to be available and to stay healthy. But then they also talk about, you know, enhanced performance, they feel sharper, they feel clearer. You know, being tackled in football is the equivalent of being in a car accident. So if you go through four quarters of car accidents, maybe you're not as sharp at the end of the game, maybe you are making quote unquote, mental mistakes, you're tired, fatigued, you're lethargic, you got your bell rung a few times. So they really feel a difference in their performance, because they can stay sharp and focus through the course of the game. And then lastly, what you know, our soldiers and our athletes tell us across all sports, we have MLS, national men's soccer league players wearing it is that they sleep better at night. So after a game, you come home, if you're headachy, you're kind of tired, you're foggy, it actually affects your ability to fall asleep and have a nice deep recovery sleep. So our athletes, our soldiers talk about, you know, you come off an eight hour training mission, in a firing range, where you're discharging a weapon for eight hours straight, all that recoil, all that force is coming back on you. When you try to go to bed that night, you know, you're tossing and turning your headachy can't fall asleep, you actually feel hungover. That's how they describe it. After the Q-Collar were of the same eight hour, you know, firing range training session, they come home and they don't have the headaches, they don't have that hungover feeling. They can go to sleep easier sleep more restfully. But the best part for them is that when they look at their accuracy ratings, their accuracy, their target ability, stay consistent through the entire eight hour session versus not wearing it, you can actually see your accuracy, ability decline, as the session goes on. So, guys, it's about feeling good. It's about being available, but it's also about being able to perform at your best.

Regan Jones

And I mean, I certainly can acknowledge sports are one thing, and they're so important. But you know, in terms of military, really, in some instances, you're talking life or death. And so mental mistakes that lead to an interception, or you know, are very different than mental mistakes that happen, I guess, you know, within the context of the military. So thank you so much for going through all of that, before we move on to telling people not only about a special offer that you have for them, and where they can find you online. Is there anything else about the Q-Collar I haven't asked you about that you want listeners to know.

Suzanne Williams

So I always give folks this this comparison. So every time you get in your car, you put your seatbelt on, whether you're going down the road a mile, or you're going on a 50 mile road trip, right your seatbelt is just a part of your your equipment that you use when you get in the car and you do it because you know it mitigates injury, that if there's an accident, wearing the seatbelt is the best way to mitigate the injury. Now, just because you put it on, it doesn't mean you think you're gonna get an accident every time but you're just prepared for it. And I tell I tell athletes, so when you put that seatbelt on and say you, unfortunately are in an accident, maybe that seatbelt bruises your ribs, but it keeps you from flying through the windshield. So you still have to recover from an injury, but it's much less severe. I tell athletes, that is what the Q-Collar is trying to do for your brain, right? It's a seatbelt for your brain, you wear it every practice every game, because you don't know when a hit is going to happen. And the idea of it is that it can help mitigate injury, you know, it can help keep you from being injured. But it can also help limit the severity of an injury if one does occur, right? Nothing is 100% preventable. So we can't tell people, you know, this is where this and you're never going to have a TBI, you're never going to be injured, no one can do that. But if we can tell you wearing it helps mitigate the injury or mitigate or lessen the severity of it, you know, you're just putting yourself in a better position. So think about it, like wearing a seatbelt, you wear it all the time, it just becomes a part of your, you know, process of getting in your car before you turn the key on.

Regan Jones

This may be one of the most impactful parts of this entire interview for me personally, and my family because as I said, my son's already wearing the Q-Collar, but I'm gonna be honest with you, I think he's only wearing it during games, you know, like not when he's in competition with his own teammates. So it's a there's gonna have to be a big correction that that happens around our house. It's kind of like you say, it's like, we don't let you drive to, you know, just the local grocery store really nearby the house without your seatbelt on. We're not going to let you just be at a local practice without your seatbelt on. So I really appreciate that explanation.

Suzanne Williams

Well, Regan, I laugh about this, but I'm at the age where I remember when seatbelts were optional to mandate it. And so for me growing up, seatbelts were just

35:00
a part of life. You just put it on. And but you know, my parents' generation, that was not the case, they were oh my gosh, like now we have to use our seatbelts what we wore, it used to be a choice. And so I just always use that because I'm like, our hope is that the next generation, your son, my son's generation, this just becomes like a seatbelt. They just put it on before every time they take the field.

Regan Jones

Yeah, we've made it very clear to him, that there's no game without the Q-Collar. But now we need to be clear, there's no practice without the Q-Collar either. So you've made it, you've made an impact on my family immediately. Okay, so let's do, let's tell people both where they can go to find more information about the Q-Collar, where to order it. And then I know that you have a discount code to share with them.

Suzanne Williams

Q30.com Q, like the letter Q three zero.com. We sell them online. So you can go online, it shows you how to measure, all the studies are published on our website. So if you want to do some research, you can look at it. Athlete testimonials, you can look at our ambassadors just really all the information you need is going to be on that website. And then we want to thank you so much for having us. I mean, like I said, this is really a grassroots initiative, we're trying to educate people. So for your listeners, we want to offer a 10% discount, and you can go and just use the code REGAN. And so you pop that into in the checkout discount code will give you 10% off, I should tell you, the Q-Collars are $199. So they're about $200. Again, they last for two-plus years, depending on use. And the other fun fact is because it's a class two medical device, you can use your HSA or FSA accounts.

Regan Jones

Yeah, that's a great clarification. I actually had never really thought about the fact that you could use HSA or FSA money. So I appreciate you sharing that. Okay, so for listeners, I will of course, as I do with every episode, be sure to place a link in the show notes to the q30.com. website. I will recap in the shownotes that the code for 10% off is Regan - R e g a n - and I believe that code will be active for 30 days after the release of this episode. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, all right. Well, Suzanne, you have been just super helpful today, not only in educating, but just really inspiring me to talk to more and more of my fellow lacrosse parents about the importance of this and my hockey parents, soccer, parents, football, parents, all the all the different teams that I know that I have parents listening in the audience, so an inspiration, education, and I really am honored that you would take the time to join me today. Really appreciate it.

Suzanne Williams

Well, thank you for having me. And I'm just so blessed that you know, I get to be a part of this and help spread the message.

Regan Jones

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much.

Okay, that wraps up my interview with Suzanne. Now I know at the end of every episode, I always encourage you to share this with a friend but I really am encouraging you today to share this episode with your fellow athlete parents. I don't get any compensation from this episode. I don't get any compensation from you choosing to buy a Q-Collar. So I want to state that upfront so that you know that I'm not asking you to do this solely for my benefit. I mean, yes, I'd benefit when this podcast is passed around because I I love to get new listeners on the show, but I don't I'm not financially being incentivized to promote this product to you. I am however very thankful that queue caller was willing to give us that this 10% discount on any purchases that are using the code Regan with their purchase. But do note that what was said in this episode is it is a 30 day window. And for most of you that's not a big deal because I know the majority of the the downloads and the listens happened in the first 30 days. But don't sit on this. If you are interested in moving forward with a cue caller go ahead and do that now. Use that code Reagan. And please feel free or feel encouraged or requested to share this with your fellow parents of athletes because I just know that as parents we put so much time and care into taking care of our athletes and this is Truly I believe one of the best things that we can do for the preservation of their brain health moving forward. Okay with that I am going to take a quick commercial break. And when I come back, I have a couple of different things to talk to you about for the odds and ends ending of today's show.

Regan Jones 39:42
Today's episode is brought to you by your color guru, your color guru.com is where I went a few years ago now at this point to have my colors done and as I have said on previous episodes, the idea of having your colors done is something that I find a little bit comical for those of us who were unmillennial because it's certainly something that people were talking about and read books about in the 80s. But what your color Guru is offering is so much more comprehensive than that. And frankly, it's so much easier. The whole process to have your color guru do your customized color palette that essentially makes pulling together a wardrobe that makes you look your best. The way they do that is so simple and so easy. It's as simple as going to your color guru.com, filling out some information, uploading some pictures, and then you get back a customized color palette that frankly, takes so much of the guesswork out of figuring out what to wear. Now, you've heard me mention this in previous episodes, how much I love your color guru and how I think it's absolutely transformed. Like even the compliments that I get. It's so much easier to put something on nowadays and someone say oh, that looks nice on you, or oh, that really brings out the color of your eyes. That's one of the big benefits. But recently, as I was last minute trying to get ready to go to someone's home or a very casual holiday dinner, I realized I had not figured out exactly what to wear. But what I have increasingly started doing is only buying clothes that fit my your color guru color palette. I'm a moonlit summer so when you get yours done, I'd love to hear from you what your color palette is. But once you start choosing clothes that fit your color palette, what you realize is that all of those clothes work together. So in putting on a jacket that I just grabbed out the pair of boots that I had with the top that I was wearing, it all coordinated really well in a way that frankly, I just don't have the fashion aptitude to put together on my own. And the only reason that it worked is because they all fit together in my moonlit summer color palette. So for listeners of This Unmillennial Life that would like to have your colors done or gift it to someone it would make a wonderful gift at the holidays and especially if you're you know shopping last minute it can all be done digitally. You can go to your color guru.com and use the code Reagan, R e g, a n or 10% off your color consultation. So again, that's your color guru.com use the code Regan for 10% off there is a link in the show notes.

Regan Jones 42:20
In today's odds and ends ending I'm going to be talking somewhat about a topic that probably a lot of people are talking about because this is the month of January and it seems like everywhere you look people are talking about dry January or Dryuary, that's a new term for me this year, I've always heard it referred to as dry January, I've never heard it referred to as dry you airy. But I know a lot of people are doing dry January. And if you've been a listener for the show for quite some time, you know that I did my own sober September a few years ago, I'll place a link in the show notes. If you've never listened to that episode. It is it's a good one. It was very raw and real about what I experienced is one of the best things that I ever did. But it's pretty far in the distance of my mind now and I have not embarked on any type of you know, dry January sober September sober October since then, and I'm not planning to do are not in the midst of a dry January at this point. The reason I'm bringing this topic up is because I want to let you know about a different approach. And so and at least one tool that I've learned about that really falls into what you would call maybe a damp January now I didn't make this term up. But I discovered in the last part of 2023, a podcast called The Alcohol Minimalist. And I really was intrigued by a lot of her episodes. Now I'll tell you up front, she gives a weather report at the beginning of every episode. And I know that there are things that I do in this podcast that probably drive you nuts, if you want to send me an email or a message and tell me what that is I will take it to heart. But please be kind. But I often want to say to the podcast host, you know, a little weather report is okay but most of us don't really need to know what the weather is like in Oregon every single time that we have one of your episodes. So it's just a reminder that you guys that stick around for these podcasts, you have to put up with all of our little quirks. But she has so much good information that she talks about in her podcast. And she really I think one of the things that she does that I really appreciate. And that is something that I'm challenging myself to do going forward into 2024 and beyond is to really abandon all an all or nothing thinking and that's all or nothing thinking in terms of alcohol consumption all or nothing thinking in terms of like meat consumption or sugar consumption. It's no surprise to most of you who have listened to my podcast for a while, but there have been periods of my life where I would completely sort of swear off x, y or z or completely adore

45:00
one eating pattern to the exclusion of others. And I really do think that life is just too short for some of that rigid rule-oriented behavior. Now, that's not to say that general guidelines aren't good for us, they absolutely are. And I hope that you'll always stick around for me to bring you the latest, greatest newest news in terms of nutrition and fitness and other topics. And that's also not meant to imply that I in any way think that if, if you or someone that you know, has chosen to be completely alcohol-free for any myriad of reasons from religious convictions, which I wholeheartedly support, to concerns about alcoholism, whatever the case may be nothing about this is meant to call that into question, it's just meant to say that there is for many people an opportunity to have less of an all or nothing approach to not only alcohol consumption, but many things within our lives. But what I really appreciate about what she talks about in her podcast, and again, the name of the podcast is the alcohol minimalist is that for many people who are trying to reduce their overall alcohol consumption, because maybe they've gotten into a daily habit that is not serving them, or serving their health and wellness, is that that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to abandon all alcohol consumption altogether. And that really is kind of what I have always viewed sort of the dichotomous thinking. And for many of you, you may think, like, Why didn't really think that I only drink, you know, a drink when we go out to dinner or, or, you know, only, you know, drink on occasion, on a special occasion. That's great, that's wonderful. But there are actually a lot of people who tend to have what I would say is a daily alcohol habit. And the only way they seem to move forward is to have a no alcohol habit. And, again, what she talks about in her podcast is being more mindful and intentional about the alcohol that you do choose to drink. So again, alcohol, minimalist podcast, lots of good information, she gives a weather report from Oregon at the beginning of every episode, I wish she would not. But that is, it's well worth listening to that little part of it to get all of the other good information. Okay. And so with that being said, I wanted to tell you about a conversation that I had at a recent party that I went to, where one of the friends that I was standing there talking to she was talking about the fact that she was doing a Dry January, and another friend that was standing there, this was kind of interesting, she said that she had listened to and I'm just sharing something with you to kind of is food for thought, if you've ever thought about doing a Dry January, but it's too overwhelming to you. Especially if you are someone who tends to have a daily alcohol habit.

47:54
What I'm going to give you is some numbers and some math to try to just think about and what the friend was saying was that she had listened to I think it was a podcast, who knows? Maybe it was an Instagram real, I'm not really sure. And what they were saying was if you actually took a week off from alcohol, and let's say it's only five days is the workweek week, once a month, that would be 60 days worth of being alcohol free. And that that would actually total over the course of the year, two months of being alcohol free.

Now, I can tell you having done a sober September before that more than likely what you would experience if you did the five days is by the time you got to the six or seven, there's a good likelihood that you might think that I'll do a few more or who knows, you may think, no, that was enough. But this is just a way to kind of again, be more mindful and think about what you're trying to achieve in reducing your overall alcohol consumption. And being able to spread that out over the course of essentially 12 work weeks, adds up to the same amount as if you took January and February off. I'm not trying to convince you to take either one, I just want to give you some tools that if it's something that's been tugging at your heart, it's something that you've wanted to try try for yourself, but 30 days seems overwhelming. I think alcohol minimalists can give you some tools to look at a dri or month and sort of see how to do that. But then I can just give you these tools to say like, Hey, this is just really a math exercise and consider that Okay, and so then the last tool that came up at this party and it's just, you know, kind of fun to be at a party where there are some people who are drinking alcohol and some who are not drinking alcohol and have these conversations about dry January and and a lot of the new tools and, and tips and strategies that are out there. One of the main strategies that one of my friends shared with me that she was trying in terms of just reducing her overall alcohol consumption, especially if she's at a party and I heard this from another friend as well,

Unknown Speaker 50:00
is to incorporate a product called Athletic Brewing. Now, I'm not sure if you've heard of athletic brewing, they've been around for a while. But they're just now I think, at least where I live getting mainstream enough that you can get them like at Kroger, I can get them at the place where I typically buy nicer wines. And I hesitate to call them a beer because they're, they're not a beer, they don't have any alcohol in them. But Athletic Brewing Company is essentially a nonalcohol brew, modeled after beer, and it is so close to the taste of beer, you would be so surprised, I know that there are other nonalcoholic beers out there, but I've never tried any of them, I think that there tends to be maybe a little bit more stigma associated with them. And I'm not a huge beer drinker and don't have a lot of experience in that. But I can tell you right now that if you at all, like the taste of beer, and you want to have something you know, a little bit festive to drink, I guess at a party or maybe when you get home at the end of the day, or when you you know, walk out of your home office, and you're making dinner or whatever, and you want to pour something cold to enjoy while you're cooking dinner. Athletic Brewing is really good. And one of the other things to note about the athletic brewing nonalcoholic brews is that they do have a gluten-free version. So that's also very interesting to me, because beer is one of those things that are is off limits for so many people who are gluten free. And there are some gluten free beers out there. But they're they're gluten free non our alcoholic brew is quite enjoyable. So I hope that you'll check them out again, I have no affiliation with them. I'm not promoting them, you know, for any financial reason I just had been told before how good they were. And I finally took the time as I'm doing what I would call more of a Damp January - being more mindful and not having this all-or-nothing thinking pattern. As I look to you know, not pour a glass of wine while I'm cooking dinner every night. Instead grab something else. That's just been really fun. And a good good substitute. My hope and wish for the future is that somebody perfects non alcoholic wine I tried a couple of years ago, I you know, it was actually pre COVID I think so gosh, that's been what, four years ago Time flies, I guess when you're having so much fun. I tried to go and get a large sampling of non alcoholic wines to try and hopefully come back to the podcast with some recommendations. And they were terrible. Just I couldn't I didn't taste anything that was good. They all reminded me of a vinegar and not not a good vinegar. Just it was not pleasant at all. So if you happen to know of a non alcoholic wine that you think is good, please let me know because the consensus among the people that I talked to is that it just does not exist yet. But I am hopeful that it will be something that is available maybe in the future. Okay, so that's going to wrap up today's episode as I've already made my plea for, please share this episode with friends. I'll also make a plea that if you've never taken the time to rank and write a review for This Unmillennial Life podcast on whatever podcast app you're listening to it on. And if you are a fan, I would love for you to share that with other people. So as I say at the end of every episode, thank you so much for listening, subscribing, downloading, and for sharing with a friend. I hope you have a great week.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

Research and clinical experience clearly supports the gut-skin connection. This episodes uncovers how gut health is related to healthy skin and how those suffering with skin conditions can best address their problems.

THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Erin Kinney, MS, RD, LDN, HCP, NASM-CPT

• NutritionRewired.com
• Instagram - Nutrition Rewired

Faith Driven Entrepreneurs

COMMERCIAL (Affiliate) LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• YourColorGuru.com - use code REGAN for 10% off at checkout
• Teen Clear Face Multivitamin on Fullscript.com (includes 10% discount)

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, gut health, skin health, parents of teens

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
If your skin doesn't know whether to breakout or wrinkle if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans or if you want to work out with the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees ache you've come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

I'm your host, Regan Jones and welcome to today's show. First of all, I want to say a quick thank you to those of you who have reached out to let me know how helpful you found the previous episode of This Unmillennial Life, episode number 129 the uterine fibroids episode, how helpful you found that episode to be, I want to say upfront that in the spirit of transparency, this podcast truly is a labor of love. It is something that I am opting to continue to do because one, I thoroughly enjoyed doing it. Researching topics like this diving deep. Finding information that not only helps me but also helps you really is a shot in the arm, so to speak, to keep it going. The reality is and again, being totally transparent. This podcast barely pays for itself. And I don't say that to garner any type of sympathy, I know that you hear some advertisements that run here. And those are important because things like podcasts and websites and any type of media that you're hosting yourself are producing yourself, for the most part, not counting your time that it takes to produce it, it actually requires money to have server space, and it costs money to do those things. So that amount of advertising that you allow me to share with you really does help offset the costs of hosting this podcast. But for the most part, within the seven seasons of doing this podcast, and this is the case for many podcasters podcasts aren't actually typically monetized near as well as some of the other activities that people do like social media, being influencers or having a website where there's consistent advertising. So the reason I want to be transparent about that is one, it definitely affects how much I am able to or how frequently I'm able to release episodes because I am in a rebuilding season after COVID and in my cancer treatments, rebuilding my career in a way that I've not had to do in a really long time. And that requires me to spend a little more of my time on projects that are providing revenue, which I'm sure you can understand. But knowing that these episodes are being listened to and downloaded and shared and are helpful, absolutely makes it worth it. So thank you when you reach out and let me know that something that I have done as an episode, something that I've released as an episode has been helpful to you. So I appreciate that. And I'm hopeful that today's episode is also going to be helpful. I think it can be helpful for many of us, not only for ourselves, but certainly for those of us who are parenting, you know, teenagers and young adults, because today's episode while it is the gut skin connection, and I'll tell you about my guest in just a second, we are going to have probably a stronger focus, I would say on acne in particular, you're going to hear my guest and I talk about acne and then I encourage you to hang around after my interview and I want to give you some just personal experience and some anecdotal evidence about some things that I've seen with one of my children. Okay, so let me tell you about my guest. My guest is Erin Kenny, Erin is on Instagram, as nutrition rewired you may have seen her because she is quite popular. In fact, she has over 93,000 followers on Instagram and for good reason she is on there all the time, but not in a fillip your feed with useless information way that some influencers tend to be. Erin is full of high quality, solid nutrition information, primarily specializing in gut health. And that is one of the reasons that I'm having her on today. You're gonna hear us mentioned a couple of times in the episode that the way we met was through our faith driven entrepreneur group. I've mentioned that at least once or twice maybe here on the show, I'd like to do an episode about the faith driven entrepreneur group in the future. But I'll give this little plug we will be starting a third round of this eight part Bible study in 2024. If you are a registered dietician and you are interested in potentially being a part of that, please reach out to me message me on social media or send me an email or leave me a voicemail you can leave me a voicemail at this This Unmillennial Life .com Or you can send me an email Regan at this unlink neolife.com If you are not a registered dietitian, and you are an entrepreneur, just know that faith driven entrepreneurs is open, available free to everyone. It is an extremely high quality, impactful, well done eight part series that you could do on your own or put together a group. That's honestly what I did just pulled together. Some registered dieticians in 2022. To work our way through the eight part series. We pulled together a new group and I say we, myself, my colleague, Jenna Braddock, you've heard her here on the show my colleague, Jim White, you've heard him home on the show. We've pulled together, you know, a second group for this last year, and we're going to pull together a third group moving forward. So you know, whether you're a registered dietician, or whether you're not, if you are someone who would like to deepen your understanding about how the work that you do on a daily basis in your vocation, can be something that is serving the kingdom, I highly recommend faith driven entrepreneurs. Okay, so let's get back to Erin. Erin Kenny, is a dietician who helps individuals address their digestive issues from a root cause perspective, conditions like SIBO, inflammatory bowel disease, IBS, constipation. And you'll hear her talk about her story. But it was really after healing her own gut, after feeling very disappointed in conventional medical treatments, that she made it her passion to help others. And that's what she will be doing for us today as she unpacks this topic of the gut skin connection. So with that, I'll say, Erin, welcome to the show,

Erin Kinney 6:44
Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to discuss this topic today.

Regan Jones 6:49
We have done gut health topics over the years. And as listeners know, my my good friend and colleague Kate Scarlatta has often joined me. But once I had the pleasure of meeting you through our faith driven entrepreneurs group, and really learn more about you your story, and most importantly, just started following you and saw all of the amazing information that you were sharing online, I knew I wanted to have you on the show. So before we jump into to this topic today, do give listeners a little bit of background on you, and how you specifically got interested in this area of nutrition.

Erin Kinney 7:24
My journey into dietetics really stemmed from my own issues with gut health and skin issues. And I think like most dietitians, when they tell their stories, they kind of talk about a lot of their history when it comes to nutrition and this evolution, evolution of learning about how nutrition and lifestyle can impact certain areas of the body. And my personal story was a very long one, we don't have time to cover everything today. But I really struggled with digestive issues from a very young age and over time that eventually led to horrible acne, and skin issues that really were not being able to be treated by conventional medicine and feeling very frustrated and overwhelmed and confused. I decided to educate myself and basically heal my gut and learn how to address my skin from the inside out. So that's really, you know, the big picture of how I became a dietitian. And now I'm very passionate about helping individuals do the same and really find a journey that allows them to find sustainable healing.

Regan Jones 8:38
Eventhough I know some of your background and some of your story, I actually didn't even realize that it were it was the connection between skin and gut health. That was really the first starting point. I mean, I know you now as a gut health dietitian, who works with a number of different conditions like inflammatory bowel disease, constipation, IBS, you know, SIBO, I knew that I didn't, I didn't even realize that the skin connection was really the beginning. So that makes it even more special that that's the topic that we're we're talking about today. So let's transition over to actually talking about the gut skin connection. Unpack for listeners, what skin conditions that, you know, research has shown has been associated with gut imbalances.

Erin Kinney 9:21
There's actually several different skin imbalances that have been shown in research to be influenced by the gut microbiome or at least there to be a correlation between the two. Acne is the most common one that I typically talk to my clients about. eczema, psoriasis, rosacea. udah Karissa, also known as hives, dermatitis, and even vitiligo, and if you even dig a little bit deeper into the research, you'll see a connection between skin cancer and and gut issues. So there's a wide variety of connections here and not limited to just acne and psoriasis.

Regan Jones 10:00
Ok I did not know that. And I will tell you from a selfish standpoint, and people know this, that I've been listening to the podcast now for seven seasons, that often these topics come up because there's either something happening in my life or the life of someone in my family, that kind of leads me down wanting to know more about it. And specifically, when I saw one of your posts that talked about skin issues, and the the connection to acne, I mean, I'm the mother of two teenage boys. And so that is something that's certainly on my radar radar. So I'm really excited to kind of unpack this a little bit and see if the knowledge that I gained from you can actually help them. So let's talk about getting some of that knowledge. How long really are we talking about, that you would take someone to see some changes in their skin health, when they're working on healing their gut. And I think one of the most important things that we need to talk about is like when we say healing your gut to change skin issues, like we have to talk about what does that look like? So let's talk about both of those things, the timing, the timeline, and then really, functionally, what are we talking about in terms of, of healing the gut?

Erin Kinney 11:09
Yeah, and this is, this can be very frustrating for a lot of patience. And, you know, I'm very much able to sympathize when it comes to skin issues. Because when I had acne, you know, this was in middle school, high school, this is a very vulnerable time for most people. And not to say that it's ever, you know, a comfortable time to have issues with your skin. But you know, you're you're looking for some urgency, right? And I remember going to doctors and asking for, you know, what's the quick fix? How can I get rid of this as soon as possible. And of course, the first line of treatment is typically antibiotics or topicals. And, as we know, this can further present issues with the gut microbiome. And so when we talk about the gut skin connection, there's several different mechanisms that are involved. And we don't have time to go over every single one today. But the first one is immune involvement. So this, the microbiome is a it's a key regulator for our immune system. And it helps to maintain this healthy balance by communicating with different tissues and organs in this very bi directional manner. So if we have dysbiosis in the skin or in the gut microbiome, because we do have a skin microbiome as well, this is associated with an altered immune response. So this is where we can see patients developing, you know, things like atopic dermatitis and psoriasis, because of this immune involvement. In addition to that, right, we have the more obvious side of you know, when it comes to dietetics, we know that we absorb nutrients in the gut. And if we have inflammation, immune dysfunction, dysbiosis, meaning an imbalance of bacteria in the gut, that's going to interfere with certain nutrients that are essential for healthy skin, things like zinc, vitamin C, iron proteins. So it's really important to consider those two aspects. In addition to that the fact that our microbiome is the largest endocrine organ producing 30 different hormone like compounds, short chain fatty acids, cortisol neurotransmitters like GABA, serotonin, dopamine. So there's several different mechanisms that we're looking at. And each individual is going to have a different story of what their gut health looks like, what their hormonal profile looks like, you know, how long their journey has been with this gut imbalance or skin imbalance, the healing journey in and of itself, right, the big the big question of how long is it going to take for my skin to get better? And the thing that I tell clients always is that what I've found in my practice is that the skin is usually the last thing to heal. And this can this can be very frustrating, right? As I mentioned, we all want that quick fix, and we want to see results right away. But as mentioned, the gut is involved in so many different aspects of our health and when we're getting to the root cause of the gut issues, therefore skin issues, then we typically need to go through this gut healing process. Maybe we need to eradicate bacteria like H. Pylori, which are strongly associated with gut and skin issues. Candida maybe they're the patient has a lot of intestinal permeability, meaning what's inside the gut is able to transfer out into our bloodstream where it typically isn't, that's going to activate a lot of immune response and inflammation. So those things alone eradications imbalances, you know, those take time. So to think about, you know, how long it's going to take for healing the skin and seeing improvements in the skin. I usually have patients have a realistic timeline of at least three months, and that's a minimum. Sometimes it can take six months for patients to really start seeing benefits but what I've seen And anecdotally in my practice is that it is typically the last thing to heal, they'll first start to notice maybe improvements and energy improvements in digestion and mood. And then towards the end, their skin starts to really reap those benefits.

Regan Jones 15:14
Okay, so let's let's think about if someone I'm trying to think through like just a case scenario and how you handle it in your practice, say you have a teen or a young adult who really has historically for years been suffering from pretty severe acne, let my listeners know, like, what is the process look like, on your end of working with that person? Because it sounds like what I'm hearing for from you is that we can't just give generalities about, Hey, these are the five steps that you need to take to clear up your acne, for instance, because the underlying condition that may be there may or may be a number of different things, how do you tease that out? To to figure out to figure out what the course of treatment is for them?

Erin Kinney 15:58
That's a great question. And, you know, it really, really depends on the person and their intake form. And food record, we always start there with the basics. And this is this goes for any condition, right? We always, always look at what they're eating, what their lifestyle is, like, if they're getting enough sleep. And those are the baseline things, because you know, those can make a huge, huge difference. And then we might do further testing. So we might do a stool test, I use the GI map in my practice, and have found it to be very useful in terms of, you know, looking at overgrowth of bacteria looking at intestinal permeability. And that will really guide us on more of a deeper level, if there is a, you know, strong involvement in the gut and the gut immune system, in terms of you know, how we're addressing the treatment plan. What I wanted what I what I wanted to address today was all of the different, you know, nuances where people will say, Oh, dairy, or sugar, or chocolate, these are all acne causing foods. But in reality, we don't actually know that the research is is so conflicting on, you know, those foods in their associations with acne. So we're really looking at gut imbalances, we're looking at immune involvement, we're gonna look at vitamin D, because we know that's involved with the immune system, we're going to look at b 12, to make sure that they're having optimal absorption of certain vitamins. So we're going to start with standard blood tests, we might use a stool test. And then if we're really not seeing much showing up on these tests, we might go further and do something like a Dutch panel to look at some hormone imbalance. So the the journey is not very linear for you know, every single person, but we typically start with the basics. And then if we're not seeing much change there, then we're gonna dive more into the functional testing.

Regan Jones 17:47
Ok that's pretty comprehensive. And you probably threw out a couple of tests there that my audience is less familiar with, because I know they have not popped up on our radar before. So if you don't mind do a little bit of a deeper dive into what the GI MAP test is. And what the Dutch testing is.

Erin Kinney 18:04
The GI map is a highly specific PCR DNA stool analysis. And it is not cheap, you're paying out of pocket for this test. And you take this test and you use a stool sample that you send to a lab and the results come to me to assess, you know, kind of what's going on in their gut microbiome. Now, the things that are reviewed in this test, I mentioned h pylori, so that's a very common type of bacteria that can be overgrown in the gut, it's going to look at intestinal permeability, it's going to look at pancreatic function, it's going to look at inflammation, that marker is calprotectin. It's also going to look at opportunistic bacteria, right. So there's certain types of bacteria like staph strep, there's Citrobacter, there's Klebsiella. Those Those bacteria themselves, if they're shown to be very high in a patient stool tests can be high histamine producing bacteria, which can contribute to skin issues, they can cause inflammatory molecules to be secreted in the gut. So there's, there's so much that you can learn from the GI MAP test. There's also a lot of limitations from the test. And I feel that that's always important to discuss, because I think a lot of patients or even practitioners who aren't familiar with these tests might feel like, you know, we don't really have the research for them. But I can tell you from my practice, and all of the research that I've done, there is a lot that you can gain as long as you know how to interpret the GI map. In addition to the GI map, there's the Dutch test and the Dutch test. They have several different types of tests. They have cycle mapping tests they have, I forget the other types of tests that they have, but they have the Dutch test. They have multiple different types of tests that you can use to assess hormones, but also their metabolites. So When you go and get a standard blood tests for hormones, right, you go in and maybe you're checking estrogen, maybe you're checking progesterone, prolactin, FSH, LH, you're just looking at one single point in time. And what's great about the Dutch test is that you're not using blood, you're using a urinalysis and saliva, which are much more accurate for things like cortisol, things like FSH, LH, estrogen, and you're also looking at metabolites and pathways for these hormones. So we know that there's three different types of estrogen, right, e one, e two, e three, and the pathways where these estrogens go is really important for assessing breast cancer risk detoxification pathways. So a very, very in depth way to assess hormone balance that you will not find in conventional medicine. So these two tests can be really helpful in assessing a patient's underlying root cause.

Regan Jones 20:54
Okay, so I that is a great explanation of some of the more detailed testing and some of the testing that you use in your practice. I am going to, though put myself in the position of the listener, who is saying, Okay, I'm not either at a place to or willing to actually do a really deep dive with a practitioner at this point. Do you have any general guidelines for me so and, you know, thinking through, like you mentioned, hey, the research is not clear that you can eliminate dairy, and it would improve things or you can eliminate sugar? Do you have any general guidelines, though, for people, if they're thinking yeah, I would like to begin to either evaluate or just try to implement some, some gut healing strategies, just to see if it improves my skin health.

Erin Kinney 21:40
So the trouble with this, and I, I always have to add the nuances. And that's because there are certain foods that can be claimed to be gut healing. But for example, you know, bone broth might be might be marketed as a gut healing food. But if you have a patient who has histamine intolerance, which is causing you to carry on psoriasis, then that food is not going to be gut healing for them, it's actually going to exacerbate those issues. So my My best tip for listeners, if they're not looking to invest in those options, is to start keeping a food diary of food and symptom diary. And one big reason why this can be helpful, especially with thinking about hormone involvement is if you're starting to notice any trends into when your eczema is flaring up, maybe you notice that's happening when you're really stressed. If you're still in your premenstrual years, maybe you're noticing that it's right around ovulation and in your luteal phase. So just understanding maybe some trends or triggers that could be coming up for you can kind of guide you in the direction of what could be a large factor into why you're experiencing these issues.

Regan Jones 22:49
I think that's an excellent tip. Because so many times some of the guidelines that we give to people for various things do involve eliminating this taking that, you know, really just trying to jump in and implement things that are going to air quotes, fix the problem. But it doesn't cost anything to keep a food diary. And it is amazing. Once you actually start recording different things and start looking for patterns, how they will show up in a way when you've recorded them that you just your brain can't remember to see those connections. So I think that's a wonderful tip.

Erin Kinney 23:24
Yeah, and that was honestly the biggest game changer for me. And my own journey was the second that I actually put pen to paper and said, Alright, I'm going to start keeping track of this, I started to make these connections. And that was really, you know, a big helpful tool for me. And so for patients, it's a low cost. It's not, you know, it is time consuming to do. But that investment that you're making is worth it. And it also empowers you as the patient, because you're actually learning a lot about your body.

Regan Jones 23:53
I love that. That's a great perspective. Okay, so one of the sort of final questions that I have for you really has to do with kind of, I guess, the opposite, in terms of like, Are there skin conditions that really don't, aren't associated with overt gut issues?

Erin Kinney 24:10
That's a great question. And I think more of the research that I've done is finding these associations, but in general, there seems to be it's kind of the chicken or the egg situation. So most patients who have some type of skin issue, whether the gut is the root cause or not, they tend to have some gut imbalance from what I've seen in the research. And you know, whether it's due to hormonal imbalance or food sensitivities, those other outside factors typically still influence the gut microbiome. So I honestly don't know I don't I don't I haven't seen any specific condition that I've listed that isn't associated with some imbalance in the gut.

Regan Jones 24:53
You know, it's just amazing to hear you frame it that way and explain it, you know, based on what you've seen in the room. Search, which this is what you do day in day out, because you mentioned earlier, you know, going to your doctor and a doctor prescribing topicals. And it does seem to be that that is typically the standard approach is either some sort of prescription or some sort of topical, and to think that likely the root cause is not being addressed. You know, it's, it's a miss, really, if you think about it.

Erin Kinney 25:25
Right. And and, you know, there's even harsher treatments that patients are being prescribed. I had a family member growing up who was on Accutane, I think many people are familiar with this, if they've ever struggled with pretty severe acne, and this was going to be the next step for me. And, you know, there's a lot of side effects, including side effects to the gut microbiome for the long term of using these medications. And I'm, I am not anti medication, trust me, I have used medications in my life that have really changed my life. But in general, we have to kind of think about the implications that some of these antibiotics or things like Accutane can have on our gut microbiome long term, if there's something that we can do to avoid it, that would be the ideal route. Ideal.

Regan Jones 26:10
Absolutely. I could not agree more. Okay. So Erin, on this particular topic, is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you think listeners need to know?

Erin Kinney 26:19
I think you know, a lot of people want to know about probiotics, that might be something to touch on just briefly, you know, patients want to know, what's the best probiotic for X skin health, or what's the best probiotic for, you know, vaginal health. And we do have associations between, you know, what's what's the most well researched probiotic strain that has been useful in this condition, and in a small case study, say, and, unfortunately, we don't, we're just not there in terms of how we can use probiotics. And in fact, some probiotics even exacerbate skin issues. So I would tread lightly with probiotics, I would make sure that when you're implementing them, you're using them in the right context, you're finding a good quality product. And your expectations are realistic in the sense that, you know, probiotics typically aren't going to cure any sort of gut imbalance on its own, which also leads to you know, skin health. So just important to keep that in mind. Probiotics are beneficial in many ways I use them in my practice, they are well researched, but the way in which we use them, you know, is really important.

Regan Jones 27:31
And that's really ultimately why it is so important to work with someone like Erin who, who specializes in this area of gut health. I mean, you know, all of us who went to school become to become registered dieticians, you get like a general education and nutrition. But people like Erin, who's who specialize and focus on this area of nutrition, just have an immense amount of knowledge that the rest of us simply don't have, which is, I guess, the segue into you giving everybody some information about where they can find you. Because I think one of the main things that I hope people take away from this is that if skin conditions are something that you are someone that you know, or someone in your family are really struggling with, that it really is worth working with a knowledgeable practitioner, like Erin, to get those things uncovered as to what the root cause is and to get those treated. So Erin, let people know how they can find you online.

Erin Kinney 28:29
I'm most active on Instagram, nutrition rewired? And I always answer my direct messages. I can't always say that it's within 12 to 24 hours, but I will always get to your messages. So feel free to send me a message there. And then you can also email me at [email protected].

Regan Jones 28:49
Okay, and as I do with all episodes, I will be sure to place a link in the show notes to both Erin's Instagram account, which is again, actually even though I knew Erin and we are in this faith driven entrepreneurs group together, which was this was actually Instagram was where I first saw some of her content talking about this topic. And I thought, wow, this is this is information that needs to come back to this audience. So her Instagram is very, very good and just full of good information. And then I will also recap her email address in the show notes. And as a reminder, you can always find the show notes on whatever podcast app you are listening to this podcast on. And they are also always archived on this This Unmillennial Life. Erin, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Regan,

Erin Kinney 29:36
Thank you so much for having me. This was a great conversation.

Regan Jones 29:39
Okay, that wraps up my interview with Erin. Now I want to continue the conversation a little bit farther past just our interview by talking to you on two different fronts. One as a follow up to a session that I attended at finsih which is a food and nutrition Conference and Expo that I attend typically every fall, it's hosted for registered dieticians, and nutrition professionals. And I want to talk to you about some information that was presented specifically related to this topic today, gut and skin connection. And then also tell you about how we anecdotally I've implemented some things with one of my kids and what we've seen from a gut skin connection. So you probably picked up on that Erin said within the context of our interview, that there's really no one magic bullet, you can't just say, get rid of sugar, get rid of this food, get rid of that food, and it's going to be a cure all. And I think that's important to underscore that that really is the framework that we are operating under. However, in attending a conference session at finsih. On this topic, one of the things that was presented is that while it is not conclusive, and I have to underscore that it's not conclusive, there actually is evidence to show that in particular, fluid milk, milk, cow's milk, I would say dairy, but it's not dairy across the board. So milk itself is sometimes in studies associated with an increased incidence of acne. Okay, so let me give a couple of disclaimers. First and foremost, first and foremost, I'm not anti dairy, I'm not anti milk. If you don't know my background, I worked in the dairy industry for many years. And I think that the dairy farmers in this country are some of the finest people in the land. So I don't share that information lightly. Because I know some people can hear something like that and think nobody should consume any dairy ever. I'm presenting it because I have in my family figured out that with one of my children, that there does appear to be a connection for him. I'll unpack that in just a minute. But let's let's go back to this potential connection. So the reason I'm giving it as cautionary is because one of the things that we know, as registered dietitians, is it's very difficult to see cause and effect, unless the study is set up to see cause and effect. In other words, a study that says, hey, tell us about what you how many glasses of milk you drank over the last six months on a daily basis. If someone reports a high amount of milk consumption, and someone else reports a low amount of milk consumption, but their recall is actually not that clear. You know, what they consider a serving is not equivalent. In other words, there can be just like a lot of variables that sort of dirtied up that data for lack of a better way to put it, it can sometimes show correlation, a correlation, a trend that we don't necessarily know is 100% accurate. And that does appear to be one of the bigger criticisms between connecting milk and the incidence of acne. Okay, so you've got that disclaimer, but as I said, because it was presented in this session with two other registered dieticians, who specialized in gut health as something to potentially look at with patients and clients who are suffering from acne, to look at their their fluid milk consumption. I have one of my children who was experiencing pretty significant pretty significant acne. And so being a mom, I came back and say, This is what I've heard. In this session. Let's give it a try. And we did two different things. So we cut out fluid milk. And we also started taking a vitamin supplement that was specifically geared towards teens and healthy skin. Okay, so I feel like I'm almost doing a second episode just to kind of unpack this for you. But I really felt like this was good information to have almost mom to mom, you know less about me as a dietitian and more just like, hey, this is what we did in our family. And we did immediately see an improvement in his skin. Now where it gets interesting is this improvement lasted well for about a month after we implemented it and he was pretty diligent about staying off of milk. And then we were away for the Thanksgiving holidays and he enjoyed a milkshake. And I will admit it was almost instantaneous that his acne came back. Now you may be thinking to yourself, are we talking like severe acne? Are we talking a pimple here and there and the best way that I can describe it is I can see a difference between like a few pimples here and a few pimples there, I consider that a just a normal part of being a teenager. That versus really intense read inflammatory. What I call just like angry at me. And angry at me was what popped up after the milkshake. So is that just coincidence? Does that have to do with other things that we're eating over the Thanksgiving holiday absolutely could be the case. Because the other thing that you see when you kind of look at the literature and look at the conversation, and I've even had this conversation with a pediatrician, and this is pretty clear is that there is also likely a higher incidence of hormonal type acne, especially in teenagers with what's considered a high glycemic index diet. So high glycemic index foods, you know, typically being like higher sugar, things that would raise your blood sugar very, very quickly. So are those things being eaten over Thanksgiving? Absolutely. Could that be the culprit? Maybe so, so I'm not telling you that in any definitive way. But I want you to have just all the different angles to look at. I think Erin has done a phenomenal job of really making the case that for these skin conditions that people struggle with, and acne is just one of many that people have, the very best way to tackle that is with a practitioner like Arun, to really get to the root cause. I know that that is not going to be either an option or of interest to everyone. And so sometimes, we do want to just try things and see how they work out. My caution in saying that is to realize if you have a teenager that is in their growing years, or young adult or child, that you don't just strip out milk from their diet without making sure that you are replacing it adequately, because milk is such an important dietary and easy way of getting in calcium, and to a certain extent, vitamin D. Now, you'll also notice, and I say, this is turning into being almost like a second episode in and of itself. You'll also notice that I said earlier, it didn't doesn't appear that yogurt and cheese fall into the same category. And frankly, I'm not exactly sure why other than the fact that milk is a higher glycemic food, so a lot to consider there. The only other thing that I would add is that prior to my interview with Erin, I actually had purchased for my son, these moles, this multivitamin, to clear face, the improvement in in his skin has, again just sort of correlated with this dietary change in, you know, kind of eliminating fluid milk. But also starting this, this multivitamin, I probably wouldn't have bought it if I had had this interview with Erin first because there are, of course question marks in my mind, like, how beneficial could this be it contains, you know, a multivitamin multi mineral, it's also got some different what you'd say I think more like anti inflammatory compounds, and it has some different probiotics. And after listening to Ayran, I don't know if I would have purchased it, because I probably would have felt like, Hey, this is maybe a waste of my money. But because all of this correlates with the change in his diet and the introduction of this multivitamin. We're sticking with it for the time being. And I also again, just in full transparency, I would not tell you that if you ran into us in the grocery store that you would say, Oh, his face is 100% clear, you know, he is a teenager. And so that is as most of us are in remember, you know, just kind of a constant battle. But I also know, there's just kind of a bigger difference between really angry inflammatory acne, like I mentioned, and pimple here and there. So I hope that you're clear about the difference. I hope that I've made it clear that I don't want you to think that I'm telling you this is definitive science and this is the path to reducing acne but it is something that we've tried, and it appears to have worked. Okay, so a lot of information for me. Stick around for a very quick ending to today's show the odds and ends ending and right now I'm going to jump drop in a quick commercial break.

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Okay, in today's odds and ends ending I want to just address something that I mentioned sometime in a few episodes back that I was going to talk about. And I originally thought maybe I would talk about it in a full length episode. But I think it's best just to kind of acknowledge it here. And that is why I as a registered dietitian have undertaken a new website that frankly has nothing to do with being a registered dietitian and almost no new nutrition related content whatsoever. And that is my new website, this baking life.com You've heard me talk about it here on the show. But if you're following me on social media, or you are a subscriber and you have been getting some of my emails, you will notice that while some of the recipes that I'm developing do have I guess, the need for a registered dietitian, especially one that understands gluten free baking, there's a gluten free web section there. There is a low carb section up there. But the overwhelming majority of the recipes that I'm developing right now are frankly, not low calorie, they're not low sugar, they're not low carb, they aren't necessarily gluten free. They are just a complete absolute departure from so much of what I've done over the last, gosh, 15 to 20 years of my career. And for those of you who've been around for a long time, you may feel a little bit of whiplash in seeing that. And honestly, I kind of get it. But I started this whole episode off being really transparent with you about you know, why maybe I'm not releasing quite as many episodes as I used to. And a lot of it really boils down to rebuilding a career. And on this side of a cancer diagnosis, when you want to start rebuilding a career that has really frankly kind of pulled back you know, a lot of people pulled back during COVID whether they wanted to or not, and then I pulled back even further just you know going through treatment. In doing so I really have to evaluate how I want to spend my time. And it brings me a great deal of satisfaction and joy, as I said at the beginning of this episode to research topics that are of interest to me and that I think will be helpful to you and that's what This Unmillennial Life podcast exists exists for but as I have remarked and joked with friends over the years when I was doing recipe development on lower sugar this and the higher fiber that and and really what I would say like hardcore nutrition developments sometimes I would remarked people say what I really want to do is just get up and bake muffins every day. And so I'm kind of doing that now. I love it. I grew up Um, my first and oldest and most fond memories of my time in my paternal grandmother's kitchen was spent, you know, baking. I remember being an eighth grader and my mom being at work. And I remember baking a chocolate cake for my granddad. I remember my first published recipe was, I think, is like a kindergarten or a first grader. And it was a plum cake that I had learned to bake with my grandmother. I remember being in college and one of my favorite classes, my degree is actually in nutrition and food science. And one of my favorite classes in college was a food science lab. And, you know, you'd go like eight in the morning and cook biscuits to learn about chemical chemical leavening and bring them home to your roommates. And these are just really fun memories that have, you know, followed me all of my life. I remember my very first full time job, I was a Food Editor, Assistant food editor at Weight Watchers magazine, and my boss then, and I would joke about how I had this cake stand. And I always had something baked in the cake stand. And so really, for me, baking has been something that most of my life has been, you know, a pastime, so to speak. And I am not a super accomplished Baker, you know, I don't I wasn't trained in, in French pastries, I just learned how to do basic baking, a lot of quick and easy baking baking that the average person can do and that the average family's going to enjoy. I learned that many, many years ago. And I frankly, love doing it. And so I guess in some ways, I want to apologize if you have been along on my journey and felt like in time, I've talked about reducing sugar consumption, which I still think is very, very important. But I don't think that just reducing sugar consumption in your life means that you can never have yummy desserts. And certainly in my life, what I've realized is I have one child who is literally what I can count are months away from being out of my home, having these kids, you know, it's one of those things like I want to bake for my kids and I want to bake things for them that they get super excited about and that they are treats and they are things that, you know, don't, you don't necessarily need to eat three meals a day worth of. But it's something that I love. It's something that I enjoy. And to be honest with you the site is growing very quickly, because apparently there are plenty of people out there who share my love of baking for their friends and family but want to do it in an easy way. Because that's absolutely what makes this baking life.com different than most baking websites. I do not make it very time consuming lengthy recipes. And that's another one of those things that has maybe popped up as a criticism, I use convenient products, I use things like boxed cake mixes. And I do that because frankly, they work. And they're standardized. And I know if I call for them and you use one that your product is more likely to turn out in like minded because there are no variations and how much you scoop and measure. And that's not to say that there are not recipes up there that are from scratch. There absolutely are. But I am always looking with that website to both combine what is the easiest way to get this baked good out of the oven and shared with friends and family. What's the easiest way to do that without sacrificing taste. So if that at all appeals to you, I hope you'll sign up for recipe notifications from this baking life.com. And if it doesn't appeal to you, and you really have just always been around for the more hardcore nutrition content, don't go anywhere. That is what's still going to be here on this podcast. I don't plan for that to change any. I have again appreciated in the last couple of years a new spirit towards balance and happiness and pursuing things that you enjoy in a way that I didn't before. Sort of everything changed in the last few years. So this has been a pretty lengthy EFS episode as I alter how frequently episodes may be released, it may be that some of these episodes get a little bit longer to kind of sneak everything in. So as I say at the end of every episode, I am just so appreciative for you being here and listening, subscribing, downloading and of course, sharing with a friend as we close out this year. I want to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Have a great week.

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This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

Uterine fibroids may affect as many as 8 in 10 women by the time they reach menopause. This episode uncovers what uterine fibroids are, and what causes them, as well as discussing both symptoms and treatments.

THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• Femgevity Health
• Regan's Fullscript "General Wellness" protocol with Vitamin D
• The Drugstore Cleaner Beauty Buys Episode
• Tanologist tanning drops
• Email Regan at [email protected]
• Submit a Show Idea

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EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, uterine fibroids

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
Hey there podcast listeners. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to mention something that I usually mention at the end of every episode, if you don't hang around till the end, you may have missed that I very often will ask for you to rate and review this unmillennial life on whatever podcast app you are listening to this podcast on. Based on the number of people that I know listen, versus the number of ratings and reviews that I've gotten over the years, I know that there are still plenty of you who have not had a chance to rate and review the podcast. And probably some of that is because initially, to give a rating on Apple podcasts, it used to be that you had to write a review, and I know many of us are just not comfortable doing that. But the good news is that now you don't have to write a review, you can easily give this unmillennial life a five star rating on Apple podcasts simply by going to the show in your podcast app scrolling down below the episodes and then you'll see ratings and reviews tap to rate and if you would select that five star rating there I would be so appreciative. As I say at the end of every episode, it really does help Apple podcast know that this unmillennial life is a podcast they should be recommending to other people. And with that, let's get on with the show. If your skin doesn't know whether to break out a wrinkle if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans, or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees a you've come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

I'm your host Regan Jones and welcome to episode 129 of this unmillennial life. Now first of all, I want to give an apology for any of you over the last few episodes, who have experienced a technical glitch that is happening on not my end. But the end of the advertising company that I work with for this unmillennial life. Let me say up front, I know that ads can be annoying, I also appreciate your understanding that it costs money to host and produce a podcast. And as a self employed podcaster. And blogger, advertisements are one of the ways that I make my income. One of the main ways right now however, I never want advertisements to be something that are so annoying or disruptive that they reduce the quality of the show. And I know because I've experienced it myself, that what has happened in some of the recent episodes is that the spot in the episode that I have allocated for a commercial break has actually not been where the advertising company has dropped those in and I have let them know that that is a problem. They have assured me that they are working on it live for the time being I have turned off any automated ads that would roll in the middle of the podcast so as not to disrupt the flow. So if that happened to you, I'm so sorry. Just know that I am aware of the problem. It is something that's happening on there in not mine, but I want to be sensitive to that. And for the time being. I will turn that off until we can get those issues resolved. Okay, that all said let's jump into today's episode. You already know based on the title of this episode that today we're talking about uterine fibroids, and joining me to discuss uterine fibroids is Kristin Marlin Kristen's a board certified nurse midwife, she has over 20 years of experience in women's health. And she really is an expert in menopause and feminine longevity. She's going to tell you a little bit more about her company that she co founded fim jeberti. But mostly what we will be talking about today would be sort of the prevalence of Uterine Fibroids Symptoms that you want to be aware of traditional treatment, and then how in her practice, they actually treat with some non traditional, more integrated wellness methods. So that I'll just simply welcome Kristen, Kristen, and welcome to the show.

Kristin Mallon 3:55
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Regan Jones 3:58
I really appreciate that when I was looking for someone to address this topic of uterine fibroids, that you were one of the people that came across my desk, you have a fascinating story with the company that you launched. And I think that we can really focus today on helping women understand a little bit more about uterine fibroids and then also maybe give them a different viewpoint on how they can be treated. So before we jump into that topic, though, I do want you to give listeners a little bit of background on your company for longevity. Yeah, so

Kristin Mallon 4:32
I'm the co founder and CEO of a company called Femgevity Health with is which is a concierge telemedicine platform for women working with hormone balancing specifically during menopause and perimenopause. And then we also focus in on feminine longevity,

Regan Jones 4:50
feminine longevity that's I would assume the way the name The name came about is that right?

Kristin Mallon 4:56
Yeah. So a lot of longevity. The medicine that's kind of practice now is really male focused and male dominant. A lot of the studies that come out about longevity, and a lot of the molecules that are used in longevity are really focused on how they affect men. And the clinical trials are done on men. And so what we focus on is really like, how does how did those studies apply to women? What can we use? What can we not use, and then also the really important component in a woman's life about how when a woman goes through perimenopause, menopause and menopause and how she does that, and how that sets her up for longevity going forward.

Regan Jones 5:31
And you said, it's a tele telehealth based practice, you have nurses, medical doctors explained to me just a little bit more about who is on your staff, if someone you know, down the line is interested in becoming a part of this, this group or seeking out your services, let's just know a little bit more about the company and who they would be interacting with. Yeah, so

Kristin Mallon 5:53
our protocols are all medical based. It's all medical doctors and nurse practitioners. And so we do some nutritionist nutritional counseling, we do some medical counseling in terms of mental health counseling, but the basis of what we do is really getting labs and diagnostic data and then prescribing accordingly, whether it's nutraceuticals, or supplements, or medications or hormones themselves.

Regan Jones 6:18
Okay. All right. Well, thank you for walking that out for everybody. Now, I want to just kind of go ahead and jump into the topic on hand today, and that's really uterine fibroids. This is something that came up as a topic really based on listener interest. Most people who've been listening to the podcast for a number of years know that things pop up, either, because there's something that's going on in my own unmillennial life or in the lives of those people who are my friends, family, or listeners of the show, and uterine fibroids actually has been suggested a number of different times. So let's first set the stage and talk to people about what uterine fibroids actually are. And if you will give them some sort of idea of what causes them.

Kristin Mallon 6:58
Yeah, so uterine fibroids really are non cancerous tumors. So people don't really like that word tumor because they do associated with cancer, but they are non cancerous growths that are coming from the uterine cavities, either outside or around the uterine cavity themselves.

Regan Jones 7:16
Okay. And then, in terms of causes, can you give us a little bit of an idea of like, what causes uterine fibroids,

Kristin Mallon 7:23
fibroids are really kind of a black hole. And we don't really understand fibroids as much as we'd like. But there's a lot of different theories about what causes uterine fibroids. So from our perspective, and this was a kind of a thought that was really made popular by a doctor called Dr. John Lee, he actually has a website called I think it's Dr. John Lee md.com. But the concept of estrogen dominance, because estrogen is a hormone that feeds the growth of, of fibroids. And so estrogen dominance is something that's pretty commonly seen nowadays, it's not a medical term that's really adopted, there's no ICD 10 code. If you go to like a regular generic OB GYN, they're gonna be like, that doesn't really exist, kind of the way that a lot of kind of traditional conventional doctors don't think that Adrenal Fatigue is really exists. That's where a lot of the thought is about where fibroids come from. Although there are risk factors that are associated with fibroids like having a period early like having your first period before the age of 10. Having less pregnancies being on hormonal birth conception, there are certain endocrine factors like being exposed to D S, which isn't really used anymore isn't so common anymore, but that was something that was more common in women that were born in the 50s or 40s. Obesity is also associated with fibroids diet, especially a diet high in red meats and dairy, alcohol, smoking, and genetics are all risk factors for developing fibroids.

Regan Jones 8:55
Okay, so if a woman is sitting and listening to this and is thinking, gosh, I have some of these risk risk factors. clarify for me, because this is a statistic that I've seen, and I just want to understand it a little bit better. from your standpoint. Do all women who have uterine fibroids do all of them? No. Are they all symptomatic? And the next part of that question is what are some of the symptoms that people would be looking for? Yeah, that's a

Kristin Mallon 9:21
really great question. So I think also, we can't really talk about the incidence and prevalence of uterine fibroids without talking about the significant disparity in the high incidence among black females as well. And we can kind of get into that a little bit later about the theories about why black females have a significantly higher proportion of having uterine fibroids. There's some studies that say, I've seen studies that say one in four women will have fibroids by the time they reach the menopausal years and I've seen studies as high as 80% of women will have uterine fibroids by the time they reach the menopausal years. A lot of times these fibroids especially in the early years of the fibroid growth and development, they are asymptomatic. And so, you know, I am a certified nurse midwife. And so I've done a lot of C sections and been into a lot of uterine cavities and many, many times in those C sections, probably about 30 or 40% of the time. And these are women who are younger and their young reproductive years 20s 30s and 40s. And we'll find a fibroid in the C section. Totally. Nobody had any idea about it and we didn't suspect about and even this woman was having ultrasounds in her pregnancy because fibroids can sometimes be difficult to see on ultrasound, especially when an obstetric cinematographer or so nog refer that's really doing pregnancy based ultrasounds and doesn't specialize in gynecologic based ultrasounds is reading the ultrasounds or looking at the ultrasounds and they're really looking at what's going on with the pregnancy. They're not always thinking about, Okay, what's going on with the fibroids? So, it's a little bit like I said fibroids is kind of a black hole. In general, it's a little bit of an unknown, but I would say more than half of women might exactly have fibroids, and then not even know they have them. And then you did ask about the symptoms of fibroids. So there's three, there's so many symptoms of fibroids, but there's three main symptoms that kind of really signify that fibroids are kind of at a later stage or larger. So number one is is bleeding, heavy bleeding, irregular, bleeding, painful bleeding. And this can sometimes be hard to diagnose, because this can also be associated with things like endometriosis, and so they can sometimes get confused. Does a woman have fibroids or does a woman have endometriosis? Or does she have both both are high estrogenic states they both kind of are result of having high circulating estrogen, or more estrogen in relation to the balance of the other hormones. There's also sometimes women can actually feel them, they can actually feel the fiber, they'll feel groco They'll feel like Oh, this isn't there's a hard ball here like so the palpation of feeling them is very real. And then pain can be the the number one symptom. So it's really those three things. Although there are other symptoms that go along with it urinary symptoms go along with it, pressure symptoms go along with it kind of like a bloating or a bulky feeling. There's so many things that happen with fibroids specifically. But I would say those are the top three symptoms that women really feel along with being totally asymptomatic and not feeling anything.

Regan Jones 12:22
Okay, good. Thank you for clarifying all that. Okay, so what I want to do is I want to briefly talk about and you give listeners just sort of an idea of kind of the current treatments that you see within what I would call the traditional medical community, how it's currently how have fibroids are treated currently. And then I think the area that you specialize in, let's talk about the alternatives, the non surgical or natural treatments that it sounds like that you all are using in your practice. So cover both of those for my listeners.

Kristin Mallon 12:54
Yeah, so I think a great way to kind of understand the there. So there's three tiers of treatment that are kind of traditionally used in conventional medical therapies. And I think to kind of understand them, it's helpful to understand the different types of fibroids. And this was something that you did allude to in the beginning, and I can circle back to that now, but there's different types of fibroids. So kind of from like the least severe to the most severe. There's fibroids that are pedants related, so they're attached by the stock, like a stock to the uterus, or to the uterine cavity, sometimes, like on ultrasound, they can actually look like ovaries, they usually can be palpated through the skin, although not always depending on the size of them. And they're usually pretty asymptomatic. They don't bother the uterine cavity, because as a woman is having her menstrual cycle and the lining is being shed, these are on the outside of the uterus, and a woman doesn't necessarily notice them or feel them. The next kind of more serious as we kind of moved down would be something called a sub serosal fibroid or a sub serosal myoma. And these kind of originate from the smooth muscle tissue layer of the uterus or the myometrium. And they're on the cirrhosis surface of the uterus. And so sometimes they also similarly like don't really have the same effects of causing heavy bleeding, although sometimes they can because they're really more like they're coming from the myometrium. And they're not the same as a submucosal fibroid or submucosal myometrium, which is when the when the fibroid is actually like in the mucosal wall of the uterine cavity. And so this is when you're going to have the fibroid getting in the way of the period and the uterus is going to feel like it's kind of like you know, when something's in your nose and you feel like something's in your nose, well, that's what's going on in your uterus, like your uterus is trying to expel every single month, something that's along the inside lining of the wall. And so that's why there's so many heavy periods and so much pain. I mean, some women actually explain the pain of these periods as childbirth like and they're not far off and they're not wrong. Because the uterus is actually trying to expel something from the uterus when there's a submucosal fibroid. There's also cervical fibroids to, which are fibroids that can sometimes be found like within the the service server itself, which is more of like the neck of the uterus. So I think understanding kind of like, the different types helps to understand the treatments too. So there's three tiers. So there's usually the first tier which includes really kind of traditional medical therapy. So this is when someone will get put on birth control pills, or they'll get put on some sort of progestin containing IUD like a Skyla or a Mirena IUD, and that's really just meant to control the pain and the bleeding that's associated with the fibroids. Every once in a while there's hysteroscopic resection of the submucosal fibroids. So sometimes it's a very, very minor minor surgery that's done it can sometimes even be done in office or you know, in an outpatient setting, where a surgeon goes in and just removes the fibroids that are irritating the wall of the uterus. The second tear is, I think, starting to become much, much more common and we've seen developments now in the this tear of treating fibroids which are with gonadotropin antagonists are gonna trigger an agonist and they kind of work the same way, even though it's weird, like one is an antagonist and one is an agonist, but they reduce the growth of the fibroid itself. And these are medications like that you might have heard of like, or Alyssa and Lupron and my friend Ray, they're taken either in injection or pill form. And this basically is used to shrink the fiber. And they work really well, especially for women who kind of have moderate symptoms, not so much severe symptoms or debilitating bleeding or pain every single month. But for the moderate symptoms, they do sometimes work really well. Some women don't necessarily like the side effects, because the bleeding can be irregular. And for some women, it just doesn't work well, because they don't like oh, I have to take an injection every single week, or every single month, they might not like how it makes them feel. And so they like the control of something like birth control, or they like the control of something whether it's just a pill that they take every single day. And then there is in that tier, that second tier something called uterine artery embolization, which is when a surgeon will kind of go in to the uterine arteries or the blood supply, like whatever the blood supply that's feeding the fibroid itself, and they'll put st kind of like almost like a sand into near and around the stock or near and around the base of the fibroid and then create a clot and then that decreases blood flow to the uterine fibroid itself. And then the third tier would be more like focus surgery where someone is going in and having a full myomectomy. You know, this can sometimes be done vaginally or through the abdomen and actually opening up the abdomen and removing the fibroids that way, or endometrial ablation. Um, that's not usually done in women who want to have children in the future, although sometimes it can be and then, of course, hysterectomy is kind of like the ultimate, you know, you've tried everything and you've exhausted all of your options. And that's the only choice that we have left. So that's kind of the way fibroids work and the different types of treatments that are available.

Regan Jones 18:29
Okay, but you all have I, as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, some different and more natural treatments. Is that right?

Kristin Mallon 18:37
Well, a lot of what we do is kind of like what I talked about in the beginning. And and I think that it also goes along with early diagnosis and early intervention. You know, there's not really a great standard within the OB GYN community of how often or how early you should be using ultrasound GYN ultrasounds to screen for certain things, like fibroids, and even things like ovarian cancer. So in my practice, we've always been incredibly, incredibly proactive. And we we offer ultrasounds pretty much to everyone across the board that's in their 30s and up, and so we're able to kind of pick up on these fibroids much earlier. fibroid doesn't can't always be picked up on on ultrasound, and sometimes MRI needs to be used. But if a fibroids big enough where it's going to be a problem and needs treatment, especially whether it's natural treatment or pharmacological treatment, an ultrasound is usually enough to be able to give us the information that we need to kind of understand where to go from there. And even in asymptomatic women and I think this is like a huge opportunity for women's health to get better is that we should be using GYN ultrasounds more as a screening tool to help us pick up these are these fibroids much much earlier so we're not waiting till a woman is symptomatic and then working with the fibroid when a woman is symptomatic because often a woman has had that fibroid for many many years and she had No idea before she starts to have the symptoms of the heavy bleeding and the pressure and the pain and the urinary symptoms, etc. So yeah, so I'm happy to talk about how we how we treat it. So because I mentioned that we really kind of see it as this hyper estrogenic state or an estrogen dominant state, what we really work on is controlling the estrogen dominance. So it's not so much that the ovaries which you know, produce the majority of the sex steroid hormones, when it comes to progesterone and estrogen for women are producing more estrogen than they should be, what's really happening is other hormones are starting to decline. And then the ratio of estrogen to other hormones like progesterone DHEA, and testosterone is off. And so when we support and correct for those other hormones, and we bring those other hormones back up to their normal levels, we find that we're not creating the high estrogen or the hyper estrogenic states that are very common for women in their late 30s, and 40s, which lead to fibroid growth. So there's a lot of different ways that we do that. So number one is testing. So we do a lot of diagnostic testing to see, where's the woman's hormones, where's the woman's hormones at different points in her cycle, because the the cycle is really divided into two phases. It's divided into the follicular phase, which is a phase that's dominated by estrogen, and then the luteal phase. You know, there's the ovulate ovulation, which happens right in the middle, but then the luteal phase, which is dominated by progesterone. So checking, we like to check hormones three times a month in the follicular phase at ovulation. And then then luteal phase to see where the hormones are falling and what ranges are normal. And this is actually believe it or not, I think it's crazy. But it's a pretty big controversy out there, among other people who do hormone balancing, or who do type GYN types of services like this, because they're like, Oh, you don't need to test like hormones vary too much like you're not going to get information and you don't need to test, that's a very common thing that we hear, yeah, I've heard that. But getting the getting the hormone levels at the different times of the month, you're gonna get a range. So for example, if you test someone in the beginning of the month, and their extra dial level is 400, versus 50, or versus five, you're going to know much, much more because maybe the range of that person at 400, that range isn't going to be five to 400. If they're 400, in the beginning of the month, you know that that that range is probably something more like 200 to 400 or 200 to 600. So even though you're not getting an exact number, you're still getting a sense of the range of where that hormone is falling at that specific time of the month, which is why I think it's so so important. And as I think we develop more types of tools, there's a lot of tools now we have mirror care, we have probe, we have mental Pro, we have a lot of tools now where we can test urine metabolites at home, and we can track the menstrual cycle at home and understand not not as perfectly as serum and not a perfectly as blood testing. We can track what's going on with the menstrual cycle, to understand what hormones are high and low, and then balancing them out with herbs with nutrients with gut microbiome balancing, or with bioidenticals or even pharmacologic, if they're necessary.

Regan Jones 23:16
That last part that you talked about, the testing with urine metabolites was new to me. So I am very familiar with doing serum testing of different hormone levels, and I will reinforce exactly what you say. I mean, I've had multiple doctors, OBGYN, say over the years. Oh, no, there's no point in doing that. Because you're not ut doesn't tell you anything, because hormones fluctuate. But I know that there's always been an alternative viewpoint. And there's, you know, the opportunity to to have that testing done. And I have had that done and looked at some of that information over the years. But as you were initially talking about the validity of checking hormones throughout the course of a woman's cycle, in my mind, I was thinking, Well, yeah, but how many times does somebody want to go in and have their blood drawn for serum levels, but I love what you said about the fact that there are these tests that do this on a urine metabolite level. So these are, these are home based kits that someone would be able to get through your practice. And that's how you all would assess the hormone levels throughout that month.

Kristin Mallon 24:22
Is that right? Yes. So actually, these these hormone tests are available over the counter. And they're becoming I mean, more and more popular by the month, I feel almost every month, I find that a new test is popping up that will test urine metabolites at home. And in addition to that, there's a lot of new testing that's being done now with saliva as well. So I think that this that, you know, it's funny because my colleagues and I always talk about all the time like the things that are kind of like outdated that like those of us that are in practice every day hands on patients all the time like reading lab reading lab. and working with women and understanding their symptoms, know what's really going to come down the pike, I think versus a lot of doctors that sometimes they lose track with patients, and they get into research, which is incredibly, incredibly valuable and serves its purpose. But we were like this lab debate is going to end soon because we get so much information and then we're able to pinpoint exactly rather than guessing rather than overtreating and giving someone something that they don't need, we're able to pinpoint exactly what a woman needs, and then watch how it changes in her urine metabolites or serum. If someone like you said, is willing to come in three times a month, you know, sometimes a woman's like, oh, I live right by the office, no big, I'll pop on over. But yeah, for someone who lives an hour, 45 minutes from a lab, that's not really realistic for someone to do something like that.

Regan Jones 25:50
And especially for people who are a little bit needle phobic, I'm not one of those people don't mind getting blood draws, but I know plenty people who are so truly the the trade off and being able to do something like this on a urine metabolite level is, is really a benefit. And I will just reinforce what you have said, I'm not someone who is working with patients day in and day out. But as an avid observer in the health community, and as a registered dietitian, it is fascinating to me, where we are today with all of the different levels of testing down to a fingerstick a urine metabolite, like you say, a saliva test, the things that we can do, really home based that it really would have taken a major, you know, act of God almost to get some sort of doctor's order to get a test done, you know, say just 10 years ago.

Kristin Mallon 26:43
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm always so thrilled and pleased because I think the more women, I've always thought that you know, as a practitioner, and as a clinician, as a certified nurse midwife, like we're really partners with the women we treat in their care. And I'm an expert in, you know, obstetrics and really non intervention based gynecology, that's, you know, I'm not a GYN surgeon, but they're experts in themselves and them and them as individuals. And so when we work together, we can use my expertise in GYN and obstetrics and their expertise in themselves to come up with the best, most perfect plan for them. And that's really, the more power they have. And the more information they have in their hands, the more we can work together to create a really perfect, beautiful plan for them.

Regan Jones 27:27
Yeah, absolutely. I constantly advocate on this podcast for people to be, you know, their biggest advocate for themselves. And it sometimes takes a complex medical team to do that. But it really sounds like what you all have, that you are doing in this sort of concierge telehealth space, with women at midlife is very fascinating. And like I said at the beginning, I'm so glad that you and I were able to connect because I think that you have certainly on this topic, shed some light in ways that I did not know and hopefully have piqued people's interest to maybe understand a little bit better their risk factors for uterine fibroids, and explore whether or not that's something that they need to be taking into consideration and potentially evaluating in the future for themselves. So Kristen, is there anything else about this topic that I haven't asked you that you think people need to know?

Kristin Mallon 28:17
There are some more natural ways to treat fibroids for sure. And you know that, I'm sure also as a nutritionist, you know a lot that dairy is a big culprit when it comes to fibroids and women who have sensitivities to dairy can often benefit from going on dairy free diets, and a lot of times gluten free diets. Certainly liver detoxification helps women to metabolize estrogen much better. And so also working with gut microbiome balancing and finding if there's high enzymes in the gut microbiome, like beta glucuronidation. And then you know, supplementing with calcium D helps women to metabolize estrogen more efficiently, making sure they're cleaning up dyes, and like tartrazine and, you know, any type of preservatives in their diet so that their liver can process all of their estrogen more efficiently are really great natural ways to kind of help women with fibroids. The other thing that's really big about fibroids too, is vitamin D deficiency. So that's a that's like been proven time and time again in multiple studies that women that have vitamin D deficiencies are at a higher risk for developing fibroids and having worsening fibroids and morsing fibroid symptoms so correcting that can also be a really helpful thing for women to do.

Regan Jones 29:30
I I'm so glad that you mentioned that vitamin D deficiency is one of those things that I'm actually super passionate about because I think that people are walking around with really poor vitamin D levels and don't necessarily know it. So I would love for you to just briefly give people your recommendation in terms of like, go have your vitamin D check. I mean, I want your recommendation not mine, but is it go have your vitamin D checked and then you know based on what the levels are, maybe you need a different you maybe you need to be aiming for a higher level than what's published, you know, just kind of walk out your thoughts on vitamin D treatment for us.

Kristin Mallon 30:04
So vitamin D is kind of tricky because synthetic vitamin D can also be harsh and toxic too. So you got to find the right forms of vitamin D, obviously, Vitamin D from the sun is the best type of vitamin D, but a lot of us wear protective sunscreen. So we're not always getting the vitamin D that we need there. We really like to see vitamin D levels over 50. And I know that there's some people like 80, I think that there's kind of different ranges that different people aim for and try to kind of achieve the there's, sometimes people talk about insufficiency versus optimal. So we're usually shooting for vitamin D, like at least over 35 minimum. And then if a woman's willing to work with us on it, we'd like to get it over 50 And then the sun is best. So one of the things is there was a study out of Australia about the use of sunglasses. And so we try to kind of work with women about not wearing sunglasses to help their body actually produce more vitamin D, if they're open to that, going into the sun without sunscreen, maybe for just five or 1510 minutes and then applying the sunscreen so that they're able to absorb the sun as best as possible. And then when those methods don't work, and we can't raise the vitamin D up enough, especially if women live in, you know places where like not California where there's sun all the time, then we do supplement usually with some sort of liquid based vitamin D or hyper absorbable vitamin D, and then watch the levels very closely because too much vitamin D can also start to cause symptoms too, especially when it's from a synthetic source.

Regan Jones 31:37
Okay, very good. Thank you for I just kind of added that at the end because I was really felt like that was like a public public service announcement that we needed to, to share with people. Well, Kristen, you have just been a wealth of knowledge today if you will do my listeners a favor and let them know how they can find you online and on social media. All

Kristin Mallon 31:54
of our social media handles our FEM devotee, just ask them devotee on Facebook Instagram Tik Tok. We do run a lot of lives on Instagram on Monday nights at 9pm. Eastern so people can come and ask us questions there.

Regan Jones 32:08
We try to make ourselves pretty available. And our website is longevity health.com. And as I do with every episode, I will be sure to place a link in the show notes to both the FIM devotee website and the Instagram account. Kristen, thank you so much for joining me today. It's really a pleasure.

Kristin Mallon 32:24
Thank you so much for having me. It was just so fun to talk to you.

Regan Jones 32:27
That wraps up my interview with Kristin. And you probably noticed that at some point, I mentioned that uterine fibroids had actually been suggested as a topic to do on this unmillennial life, I believe by a couple of different people. And if you've never taken the opportunity to consider episodes that you're interested in, that you would like for me to research a guest that I could interview, now is the time to do that I am planning for the second half of season seven, which will be coming up after the holidays. And you can submit that information to me simply by sending me an email Reagan at thisunmillenniallife.com. I'll be sure and place my email address in the show notes. Or I have a guest form where you can fill that information out topic suggestions. And that is one of the ways that some of the topics over the years have come up is by suggestions by people just like you so that guest form will also be linked in the show notes. I'm gonna take a quick break but stick around for the odds and ends ending where we're going to be talking about one of my absolute new favorite beauty products that I love. That's coming up next. Today's broadcast is brought to you buy your color guru, your color guru.com is where I went this last year to get my color consultation done. And there's a little bit of comedy in thinking about having your colors done. I say that in air quotes because many of us as Unmillennials remember back in the days of the 80s of doing your color, but let me tell you what your color Guru is doing is so far beyond that. And they're giving you so many tools when you actually have your colors done. And the reason that I say so far beyond that is because back in the day when we would find out what our colors were I think it was like four seasons winter, summer, fall and spring but your color Guru is much more robust than that. For instance, I'm a moonlit summer which is different than a sunlit summer. And one of the things that I love the most about your color guru and the color consultation consultation that I had done is that it comes with a color card. I have both a printed card that I can throw in my purse so that when I am out shopping I can pull that card out of my purse and hold it up to anything that I'm looking at to determine Hey, is this one of my best colors? I also have the JPEG on my phone so if I don't have the card with me, I just simply look at my phone and it has been invaluable. It makes shopping so much easier. So if you are interested in having your colors gone or gifting it to someone else, you can get 10% off off of your color guru consultation by simply using the code Regan which is our E g a n at checkout at your color guru.com There's a link in the show notes. Okay, you've heard in the commercial break that I do with color guru that I really feel like that color guru has been one of the best things that I've done in the last few years from a beauty standpoint simply because I can wear something that's one color not getting compliments put something on it's in my color guru color palette and I seem to get tons of compliments and I love that but the product that I want to tell you about today is one that is easily accessible to virtually all of us. And maybe many of you know about this product. You've seen it at your local you know drugstore slash pharmacy and that is the technologist tanning drops. So people who've been around the podcast for a while know that I've talked about different self tanners, I have a spray tan setup here at home that I use. It's not nearly as expensive as you would think I bought it years ago it's probably increased in price. But I'll place a link in the show notes to that in case you're interested in just kind of the overall full body tanning as we head into the winter. I did an episode on skin cancer with a dermatologist and we talked about self tan and how that really is probably a better alternative than you know getting out and baking in the sun to get that beautiful glow. And for us going into the winter that's not even an option if you wanted it to be so setting all of that aside the only thing about the full body self tanning setup is I don't necessarily feel that it always gives me the best look on my face. The color of it just is sometimes a little too dark and and I just haven't felt like it was you know the best and I have tried different facial tanning moisturizers over the years and I don't know I just haven't found one that I was in love with have had plenty that I thought we're okay. But recently, I on a whim somewhat grabbed a tiny little tube of technologist tanning drops they were near the checkout and a CVS in one of these you know kiosks that has like the trial size travel size beauty products very similar to what you see in Sephora or Ulta. But but like CVS and Walgreens have started to incorporate those. So I grabbed those little tanning drops and I put them in my sunscreen that I was wearing for the day and so that was the first time I used it was on a Saturday well by that Tuesday I went to the gym to a new class that I attend immediately the instructor said oh my gosh did you recently get a facial Your face is glowing and I I kind of thought it was sort of funny because I have not gotten a facial as I said to you and last week's episode when I was talking about the press on nails my budget is really tight right now my beauty budget it it is much tighter than it used to be so that's not really something that I can pursue right now getting facials although I absolutely love them. So I thought that was a little bit comical and I said no it's probably these tanning drops. And it wasn't three minutes later that a woman that I know with the gym that I workout with she came in and said oh gosh did you just get back from the beach you you're just simply glowing. So I thought gosh, you know these must be pretty good. And then over the course of the next two days I had someone that I was on FaceTime with say gosh your face looks great today What did you do and then I was back at the gym two days later. And another woman that I work out with said gosh your face looks great. What what did you do so you know I gotta say four people within the course of about two to three days. mentioning it made me think you know what, this is a really good product and it's affordable. I'm not sure exactly how much I paid at CVS or Walgreens but I do know that on Amazon and I will place a link to this product in the show. Show Notes. This is an Amazon affiliate link as a reminder, that means if you purchase your prices the same but I might receive a very very small commission. They are about $20 on Amazon and you may look at the size of the bottle it's pretty small and think oh my goodness $20 For that tiny little bottle. But you only need about two drops for a little small POM of moisturizer or like I said I am putting it in my my sunscreen. It's highly effective. And it virtually has no odor that is another thing that I like about it. If you've ever used any type of face tanner on you know, obviously your face, then you know that sometimes the smell of those self trainers can be very off putting and having it really really close to your nose like that. It's just something that you tend to smell all day long. So I'm very very pleased with these. Again, the name of the brand are is technologist and you can probably find them at your local drugstore. Down here, we primarily have CVS and Walgreens, but you can get them on Amazon. And there is a link in the show notes. So that makes two weeks back to back with beauty budget buys. As a reminder, in case you've never listened to the episode that I did on cleaner beauty at the drugstore, I'll place a link in the show notes so that you can go back and refresh yourselves on those. That episode is a little bit old, in that I did it two or three years ago, but I don't think that the products have changed tremendously. And there is a handout that goes with ads that you can take with you to the drugstore if you're looking for cleaner Beauty Buys think things like beauty counter, which I love, but it's again, not within my budget right now. So alternatives to beauty counter type products. And with that we will wrap up today's episode have already done at the beginning of this episode in my plea for five star reviews on Apple podcasts. But honestly the best way that you can help this podcast grow is simply by sharing it with a friend, you can let your friends know that this umillennial life is available wherever they listen to their favorite podcasts, including, of course, Apple podcast and Spotify, which is where most people listen to this podcast. If you want to make sure that you never miss an episode of this unmillennial life. Go to thisunmillenniallife.com/subscribe to sign up for episode notifications. As I always say thank you so much for listening, subscribing, downloading and for sharing with a friend. I hope you have a great week.

 Disclosure: Some of the links on this site are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

Many people are unaware of the connection between hearing loss and dementia. This episode covers what you need to know.

  THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES – HEARING LOSS AND DEMENTIA LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• Dr. Amy Sarow at Soundly.com
• Dr. Amy Sarow on LinkedIn

COMMERCIAL OR AFFILIATE LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• imPRESS nails
• YourColorGuru.com – Coupon Code REGAN – for 10% discount

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, hearing loss, dementia

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT – HEARING LOSS AND DEMENTIA

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

0:00
Today’s broadcast is brought to you by your color guru, your color guru.com is where I went this last year to get my color consultation done. And there’s a little bit of comedy in thinking about having your colors done. I say that in air quotes because many of us as unmillennials, remember back in the days of the 80s, doing your color, but let me tell you what your color Guru is doing is so far beyond that. And they’re giving you so many tools when you actually have your colors done. And the reason that I say so far beyond that is because back in the day, when we would find out what our colors were, I think it was like four seasons, winter, summer, fall and spring. But your color Guru is much more robust than that. For instance, I’m a moonlit summer which is different than a sunlit summer. And one of the things that I love the most about your color guru and the color consultation that I had done is that it comes with a color card. I have both a printed card that I can throw in my purse, so that when I am out shopping, I can pull that card out of my purse and hold it up to anything that I’m looking at to determine Hey, is this one my best colors. I also have the JPEG on my phone. So if I don’t have the card with me, I just simply look at my phone and it has been invaluable. It makes shopping so much easier. So if you are interested in having your colors gone, or gifting it to someone else, you can get 10% off of your color guru consultation by simply using the code Regan, which is r e g, a n at checkout at your color guru.com There’s a link in the show notes.

Regan Jones 1:39
If your skin doesn’t know whether to break out or wrinkle if you’re caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees ache, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to this unmillennial life.

Regan Jones 2:04
I’m your host Regan Jones and welcome to today’s show. Thanks for letting me take the last couple of Monday’s off if you wondered where I was. There is a National Nutrition conference that happens every fall for registered dietitians. It had been a few years since I had been able to attend. And this year I was actually speaking at the conference about podcasting ironically. So I took the week before the conference to get ready. And I took the week of the conference off. So I do apologize for not bringing you new episodes. But rest assured that I got new ideas at this conference for things that I would love to come back and do episodes on for you here on the show. Now today’s episode, though, has nothing to do with nutrition. If you’ve been a listener of this unmillennial life for a while you know that while I am a registered dietician, and technically a personal trainer, although I do not personally drain anyone by of course, an avid fitness fan for myself, you know that over the years, I do my very best to cover topics that don’t have anything to do with nutrition. And it seems like and looking back over the episodes that I’ve posted recently, there’s been a good bit of nutrition, a good bit about different supplements. And so I hope that you really enjoy today’s episode as a complete departure from a nutrition topic. Now that’s not to say that this is not a health topic. Certainly the connection between dementia and hearing loss. The majority of what today’s episode is about is of extreme importance as we look to ourselves, and our parents, our friends and family and see aging beginning to happen. We’ve talked about parenting aging parents and what some of that looks like. And hearing loss is actually one of those things that some of my friends and I tend to joke about, you know, when we go out to dinner, and we’re really struggling to hear people at the table, it’s kind of been one of these ongoing jokes about oh, we’re just getting older and we can’t hear as well. But when I was told this summer by a member of my family that she had read about the link between dementia and hearing loss, I thought this is something that I want to know more about. So in today’s episode, I am interviewing Dr. Amy Sarow. Dr. Sarow is a lead audiologist for soundly.com. And she’s also a Forbes Health Advisory Board member. She promotes healthy hearing awareness and her perspectives have been featured on NPR in People magazine, GQ Wall Street Journal and more. The first part of this episode we talk about hearing loss in general and then we will get to unpacking what the believed reasons are that tie hearing loss with dementia. So with that, I’ll say Dr. Sarow. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Amy Sarow 4:48
Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Regan Jones

Well, this is a topic that I gotta tell you is a departure from some of the recent topics that we’ve had on the show that have been pretty nutrition-oriented. So I’m really happy to have You and your expertise as an audiologist for soundly.com. Before we jump into really looking at hearing loss, and you know when to test for that, and the topic that I’m most interested in this connection that I’ve learned about hearing loss and dementia, why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about yourself, and then also soundly.com, since that’s ultimately the way that I discovered you?

Dr. Amy Sarow

Absolutely. So I am an audiologist or a doctor of audiology. I studied in my bachelor’s degree, I actually studied German. So I started my work as a language instructor in Germany. And then when I came back to the US a few years later, and I switched career paths, I was thinking, you know, speech pathology, and I was guided towards audiology, because of the difference you can really make in people’s lives. And helping them communicate, which relates to my teaching experience, as well. So now with sound Lee, I’ve had some work in the clinical realm, but now with sound leave a lot of what I do is education and sharing good information with consumers, helping them to make good decisions about their hearing health care, because it’s a topic that’s come up a lot, especially since the pandemic, and so I just, I love being able to support people and give them the the right information and resources to help them get started in the process. Yeah, because this certainly is an area of healthcare, as you say that I feel like having looked at it over the last decade or so, and seeing people in my life that increasingly are struggling with hearing loss is one that I just don’t think that the average consumer knows that much about, you know, we have this, it seems to me, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me we have this sort of tendency to think that, you know, just only very elderly people are wearing hearing aids, or people that were born maybe with some sort of, you know, hearing their hearing being affected. But I believe the reality is, it’s a much bigger issue for a lot of people at younger ages than than we realize. Would you say that’s the case? Yes, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. So it’s approximately one in 10. Americans, actually, that has some degree of hearing loss and at least one year, and so most of us know, somebody, it could be a parent could be a sibling, a grandparent. And while hearing loss does affect us, more tend to affect us, as we age, it can affect people of any age, you know, children can be born with hearing loss, or people can develop it in their teens and their 20s in midlife. So definitely, it’s a very important topic to talk about.

Regan Jones

So tell me a little bit about your thoughts on, you know, obviously, we’ve talked about kind of the incidence of hearing loss. But you know, what are some tips that people can take away from this conversation about preventing hearing loss?

Dr. Amy Sarow

Yes, this is a topic that I’ve been talking about a lot. And I’m excited that it’s getting some attention. So one of the biggest trends that we’re seeing right now, in young people actually is Gen Z, and millennials especially, is the headphone use. So that using the earbuds and the headphones and turning the volume all the way up on a phone or an electronic device is leading to noise-induced hearing loss, and we’re expecting in the coming decades, that will affect as many as 1 billion people worldwide. So it’s a really, it’s, it’s a problem. So what I like to tell people are just some practical tips about how what they can do in their daily life to prevent that from happening. So the FDA does not regulate the volume, if you turn it all the way up, and it can go well over 100 decibels, which is enough to cause damage within just 15 minutes or even less. So what I like to say is if you have someone in arm’s length from you, you should still be able to hear that person talking to you, if you can’t hear them. That’s a sign it’s too loud. So thinking about the volume is important. Limiting your time if you’re going to be somewhere where the volume is louder, you know, spending, taking breaks, spending less time in that environment that’s going to help. And then using hearing protection is a big one too. And we’re seeing a lot of companies coming up now with hearing protection that’s more comfortable or a little more stylish. For example, the loop earplugs those are really popular, they come in colors where you know, people who wear them almost as a fashion statement and they’re they’re happy to have them nearby. So those are a couple practical tips. And then just something in general. It all starts with awareness, because sometimes we don’t realize how loud our environments are

or so just having that awareness, maybe using a free decibel meter to check your environment, if you’re curious about that. Okay, so moving away from just the tips about how we can reduce noise induced hearing loss. What about people who are curious about maybe the amount of hearing loss that they’re already experiencing? When Should people consider getting a hearing test? Yes. So this is also an important topic, because so as I mentioned, even younger people now have more noise exposure. And so anyone who’s concerned about their hearing, or maybe they’re in, you know, they, they do target shooting or loud recreational sports, concerts, that sort of thing. I would even recommend people just checking their hearing in their 20s and their 30s. But definitely, I would like everyone to have a baseline hearing test by age 50. If they don’t have any concerns, prior to that. So that’s, that’s definitely my recommendation. Because when we catch hearing loss early, it’s so much easier to treat it stay on top of it, you have that information, and then you can make good decisions from there.

Regan Jones

So much of what we talk about here on this podcast for women, especially at midlife is about just early detection of lots of different issues. And so I think you have certainly made the case for, you know why you need to start with that baseline testing by age 50. Talk to me, though a little bit about what people might otter it automatically be looking for in their lives as maybe common signs of hearing loss that beg the need for going and having some testing done.

Dr. Amy Sarow

So some of the most common signs that people will describe is turning the TV up louder. It sounds like people are mumbling, they’re not speaking clearly. Maybe they feel more fatigued. And this is one where we don’t always notice that it’s because of hearing. But maybe we’re just kind of straining. And by the end of the day, we feel really fatigued, really tired, because we’re working really hard to understand what people are saying. Sometimes people notice they’re feeling more isolated. They’re not feeling like they’re part of the conversation, because they’re having trouble telling, you know, Oh, was that code or code or road? I’m not sure what they said. So it makes them feel, you know, left out. So those are all some common signs that we see if you have also maybe a difference and how you hear from one year to the other. You might have trouble localizing sounds telling where what direction things are coming from.

Regan Jones 12:46
Yeah, so those are a lot of the common ones that we see a couple of things that I picked up on when you talked about straining to hear and you talked about isolation. Those are two of the things that I read about when I first got interested in the in the main topic that I wanted to talk about today. The association between hearing loss and dementia, those were two of the things that were mentioned as potential reasons there is a connection. So as we kind of move over from general hearing loss and specifically unpack the connection between hearing loss and dementia. Can you walk that out? Like what what does the data show about whether or not there is an association? I mean, you know, I could be wrong, maybe there isn’t. But is there Association? And if so, what do we believe are the reasons behind that?

Dr. Amy Sarow

Yes, absolutely. There is an association and you definitely picked up on that aspect of it. So we see there was a study from the Lancet in 2017. And then more recently in 2020, about exactly this topic. So we know with cognitive decline, it’s an area of research that’s growing, and we’re learning about the connection between hearing loss and cognitive decline or dementia. There are some modifiable risk factors that we we can do something about now, obviously, some things we can’t like, you can’t change your family history. We can’t do anything about aging, those are things that we can’t change. But things that we can change are, you know, treating hearing loss if we have it, and especially we show that by about age 55 if we can catch it there and intervene, we have about a 32% lower risk, I believe it is of developing dementia. So it’s really important and that’s another reason why I like to recommend the by age 50 baseline because that’s going to catch it before that age. But also when we think about it’s not just the hearing loss, like as we talked about that’s important for a lot of different reasons, but also it changes the other modifiable or potentially my to final risk factors. So hearing loss changes the social dynamics. If you think about how someone with hearing loss is involved in a conversation, like we said, maybe they’re straining to hear, and they thought somebody said they thought somebody told a joke, but actually, they were being serious. You know, how is that person going to feel when they react inappropriately? And then you know, what will? How will that change the way that they interact with individuals or maybe feel more isolated, more prone to depression, and those are also modifiable or potentially modifiable risk factors. So if hearing loss has downstream effects on our health, when a person becomes depressed, then perhaps they’re engaging less with others have less social connection, maybe that’s also giving them less energy to engage in physical activity or to lead a healthy lifestyle. So it’s all related.

Regan Jones

Yeah, I just think it’s fascinating. And the first time that someone ever pointed it out to me that there was a connection. You know, I just, I was actually really very astonished because I thought, Why have I never heard that there’s a connection between hearing loss and dementia. But then when you start seeing why, because of things like you’ve just mentioned, the isolation, the potential awkwardness of social situations, the strain, I mean, one, I believe, one source that I read, and again, you can you’re the expert, you can correct me if I’m wrong, said that there is a belief that the brain is having to struggle so hard to hear and and understand what’s going on that it’s essentially kind of taking energy away from other crucial functions of the brain. Is that based in anything that you believe is credible? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Amy Sarow

Yes, definitely. So when you think about if you’re straining, or if you’ve, if you’ve been at a presentation, let’s say where the microphone is really low, and you’re wanting to hear what the person is saying, but you can’t hear them really well. So you’re really straining, that is a different kind of listening. You’re trying to get the individual words, rather than using using higher up cognitive processes to think about, okay, what they’re saying is related to something that I read or that I’ve heard about, you’re thinking about, you know, what are your thoughts and feelings about it. So you’re engaging in a deeper level. And when you don’t have those cognitive resources free to engage the brain in other ways, it does limit what what you’re able to do and where your focus is definitely. And we’ve seen that also with fMRI studies. So they tested individuals with hearing loss who had untreated hearing loss, and had them monitored to see what parts of the brain were engaging. And they then they then treated them with hearing aids and had them wear them for a year. And they did see actually, there was a big difference in the parts of the brain that were engaging when they were listening to speech. And so we believe that those connections help us to keep cognitively sharp to keep you know, as we say, when if you don’t use it, you lose it like with muscles, when you engage the brain like that it can help to preserve cognition and maintain what we have.

Regan Jones

That is just I’m sorry, but it’s so fascinating to me, because this is an area a lot of times I do, you know, interviews that are related to my field of study, which is nutrition. And sometimes things pop up and I think, oh, gosh, I’ve never heard that before. But this is information that’s so new to me, and so fascinating. And so timely. Now, you mentioned that sort of age 50 For baseline, and by age 55, potentially intervening and reducing that, that risk of dementia. Let’s talk about intervention. Let’s talk about something that you just mentioned, hearing aids, I think that’s probably the next most logical question, because we’ve talked about, you know, sort of what the problem is, but we need to talk about the solution. And I’m sure I don’t have to tell you, there has historically been a stigma around hearing aids and I don’t think if hearing aids were quite as easy to get as maybe they are now and I know that soundly has some resources in helping people pick out you know, kind of what they’re looking for. So let’s talk about intervening hearing aids and what soundly.com offers.

Dr. Amy Sarow

You know, over the counter hearing aids recently came onto the market and October of last year, October 2022. And that was when we saw a lot of interest in people trying to figure out okay, I feel like I have a problem, I want to address it. But how do I get started? What do I do? Because it is a little bit confusing to navigate. You know, there are people that are saying, okay, I can buy this over the counter. But is that my best option? Or should I see somebody? What about Costco? You know, there’s so many different routes you can go to get treatment, to find hearing aids. So we like to help people by giving them resources. So on soundly.com, for example, we have a free hearing test. It’s like a screening, you can do that at home comfortably with headphones in a quiet area, that just gives you an idea, you know, do I have something that needs to be further examined? And then you can go have a comprehensive hearing test with an audiologist. But the best way to get started is to get that first hearing test, because that will tell you, you know, what is my hearing? Like, do I have some hearing loss? What does that look like? Also the person who tests your hearing, ideally, an audiologist can tell you something about if you do have hearing loss, what your best options are, or what might be specific. In your case, for example, some people have a lot of difficulty putting something in their ear, if they’ve noticed, gosh, when I wear headphones, they just don’t stay in. And maybe they have, you know, a narrow ear canal or unusual ear canal geometry, maybe they need a special fit peace. Now, if you have mild to moderate hearing loss, you feel somewhat tech savvy, you’re comfortable with doing things on your own, over the counter options are something that you can try. And some people get started that way. And I like to tell people, if you do over the counter, that’s great. I’m excited to see people you know, take that first step, it’s also important to know your return options, because sometimes people try it and they realize, well, maybe this maybe I should do something different. Maybe I need to see someone so I like them to have all that information. But on soundly.com, we also talk about you know, different types of hearing aids, who’s there’s different brands, and we provide all that information there for people.

Regan Jones

It’s a wonderful resource. And I have spent a little bit of time on there looking. And I think the fact that you offer a unit that’s very basic, do it yourself at home initial free hearing test is something that can get people started kind of evaluating, you’ve talked about some of the symptoms that you might already be looking at. And then just being able to give people insight into what is now really a much larger and broader world of hearing aids than ever, ever before. Dr. Sorrow on this topic, is there anything else that I haven’t asked you about that you think listeners need to know?

Dr. Amy Sarow 22:58
I guess something else that I would mention is sometimes when people think hearing aids, they think, Oh, this is going to be those large beige devices that really stick out. And we at soundly.com We’re also working on stigma, and reducing that there are a lot of images that you’ll see in newspapers and magazines where they they are outdated devices. So I’d like people to know that there are really modern devices that are sleek, you almost don’t notice them when you’re wearing them. And so there are ways to to treat your hearing loss, do it comfortably, and also sometimes even stylish.

Regan Jones

I think it’s wonderful that you all have a mission to start reducing stigma as I was listening to you talk, you know, I really thought about, there’s no stigma these days around people wearing glasses that I know of. I mean, I think it’s just sort of, you know, universally accepted that many people need glasses. And when you think about the other big sense that we all are blessed to have if we have our hearing, there’s so much stigma around hearing aids, but it’s very similar, really, when you think about it to the support that we need when we wear glasses. So I think it’s wonderful that you guys are providing that information, and also providing those resources and trying to potentially, you know, turn that around in terms of d stigmatizing the use of of hearing aids. Well, Dr. Sorrow, you have just been a wealth of knowledge today, and I appreciate it before you go, will you just remind people about the website and then if there’s any way that they can connect with you online that you’d like to let them know, please do that as well.

Dr. Amy Sarow

Absolutely. Well, it was a pleasure to be on the show today with you and you can find [email protected] I’ve written a lot of articles there on various topics relating to hearing health care. I’m also a member of the Forbes health advisory board so you may see me do In some of those articles there, and you can also find me on LinkedIn. And my last name is spelled S A R O W. Thanks so much for having me.

Regan Jones

That wraps up my interview with Dr. Sorrow. I of course will place a link in the show notes to not only Dr. Sorrows profile, but also soundly.com, where you can take the free hearing test initial screening that Dr. Sardo talked about, and she also mentioned the loop earplugs, I’m gonna place the link in the show notes for those as well. I know for many of us when we travel or if we have someone that in our home who snores at night that we’re trying to drown out a little bit of that noise earplugs can be a game changer. And the fact that she mentioned how comfortable these were, and this is her area of expertise, I thought it is worth sharing a link with you. Okay, I’m going to take a quick commercial break and then I will come back for the odds and ends ending of today’s show

Regan Jones 26:00
Welcome back. So today’s episode is from top to bottom, not nutrition related. As a matter of fact, in the odds and ends ending of today’s show, I want to tell you about a beauty product air quotes beauty product that was shared with me a couple of years ago, and I didn’t try them out. And recently in attending a nutrition conference where I wanted my nails, fingernails to look the best that they could, but frankly didn’t have the time. And honestly really right now don’t have the budget to be going and getting manicures, I did my own home manicure with press on nails now as an unrelenting will when I say press on nails, you probably if you’re not familiar with the new generation of personal nails, you may be having like horror flashback backs to the press on nails of the 80s. But man that is a part of over the counter, do it yourself beauty that has really, really improved over the years. At some point in the last few years. I know I mentioned in an odds and ends ending color street nails, which at the time I was able to get from a friend I would purchase from her she’s not selling them anymore. And I have never really seen those types of films, they’re basically adhesive films that you fit on your nails. I’m not saying those over the counter at you know, the pharmacy slash drugstore, they may exist you may know of some and if you know of some and you like them, and they’re easy to come by and afford affordable sharing with me, I’d love to know more about them and even consider sharing them here on the show. But the nails that I’m actually referring to are by a brand called impress. And these truly are press on nails, but they come in beautiful colors, they’re super easy to apply, all you have to do is peel the backing off and stick them on your nails. They’re pretty secure for a good length of time. And they’re easily customizable and trimmable. I’m a pretty basic person. So I just went with you know, just like a basic cream, but they have all sorts of different colors. And they even make these types of press on nails for your feet. And as I said when I started this as an NS ending segment, these were recommended to me a couple of years ago and somebody sent me a picture and showed me how good they looked and I kind of passed it off. But again in wanting to have a better looking set of nails. For a recent trip I decided to give them a try. They’re so inexpensive on Amazon, they run anywhere from six to $7 and there are 30 different nails in each one. The only thing that I have found that is a little bit difficult is once they begin to start lifting off of the back of your nails towards your cuticles, they really can get stuck in your hair when you like run your fingers through your hair. So you know they’re not maybe the option to keep on forever long term. But if you are like me and find yourself maybe at some point in a bind, you don’t have time to go get a manicure or you don’t want to use that part of your beauty budget to go get a manicure then you may want to give the impress nails a try. And as I do with lots of the products that I recommend, here on the show, I’m going to place a link in the show notes to my Amazon affiliate link. And I have no affiliation with this company. I am as an Amazon affiliate, anytime I reference something or link to it on Amazon, I might receive a small commission if you purchase but your price will always stay the same but want to be sure that we are clear on all of that. And with that I will just thank you for tuning in to today’s episode. If you’ve been around for a while and you’re a fan of this unmillennial life can I ask you to consider leaving a rating and a review for the show that is one of the best ways for podcasts to know that you are a fan of this unmillennial life and equally as importantly, it gives them a nod to share it with other people that it might be a good fit for but Really, the best way that people find out about this unmillennial life is word of mouth. So if I could ask you to share this episode with someone that you think might enjoy it, I would be so appreciative. As always, thank you for listening, subscribing, downloading and of course, sharing with a friend. I hope you have a great week.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

Today's episode is aimed at reducing "meat guilt" by not only exploring the meat industry's new "Protein PACT" but also discussing some of the lesser talked about aspects of eating meat.

THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• www.theproteinpact.org
• www.Linkedin.com/theproteinpact
• www.facebook.com/theproteinpact
• www.instagram.com/theproteinpact

• What Is A Factory Farm? Your Questions About Beef–Answered! by Real Mom Nutrition
• Diana Rodgers, RD @SustainableDish

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, protein pact, sustainability, beef, animal agriculture

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
Hey there podcast listeners. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to do a little bit of housekeeping briefly, to let you know that if you were a subscriber via email for podcast notifications, there is a good chance that you have accidentally been moved over to a mailing list that is exclusively for my new baking website. And I will tell you up front, I am sorry about that in trying to segment lists, and yet the people that wanted to be receiving notifications about the baking website, this baking life.com, and people who want to receive notifications about the podcast is a millennial life.com. There's a little bit of overlap there. And so what I want to ask you to do is that if you want to be sure that you are getting notifications, email notifications, anytime I release a new episode, please click the link in the show notes. It'll direct you to this a millennial live.com/subscribe. Or you can just put that in your browser, this unmillennial life.com/subscribe. I have tried to do my best to clean that list up and make sure that you are where you want to be. But there's nothing like you making sure that you're getting those notifications. So if you've not been getting email notifications from me that episodes have been releasing, please go ahead and sign up. Now. Let's get on with today's episode.

If your skin doesn't know whether to breakout or wrinkle if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees a you've come to the right place. Welcome to this on Millennial Life.

I'm your host Regan Jones and welcome to today's show. Now I want to start this episode off by giving a brief disclosure that I originally met today's guest, Eric Mittenthal, when he and I were attending a food and nutrition conference together a number of years ago, earlier this year, I also attended that same food and nutrition conference. And Eric and the company that he works for were sponsors of that conference. A few episodes back, I made a mention about attending a sponsor conference, and I got an email from a listener wanting me to walk that out a little bit. What does that mean? Does that mean that you are being paid to do this episode, so I want to be sure that we're all on the same page. First of all, if I ever do a sponsored episode sponsored meaning I have been paid to produce this episode, I have been paid to interview a guest I have been paid to produce an episode I will tell you that it will be labeled as a sponsored episode I have done those in the past, you can go back through the archives, and see those some of them are very, very insightful and good episodes. Just because they're sponsored does not mean that they don't have good information to share. But just know that I'll always let you know that it's a sponsored episode, where maybe it gets to be a little bit grayer for you as the listener is when I don't make it clear what attending a sponsored conference for me entails. So let me do that since this particular episode was a result of attending a sponsored conference for me. And for this particular sponsored conference, part of the attendance was paid for by me in terms of my travel and some of the other things that were expenses associated with attending a large portion of it is paid for by the conference itself. And the conference has a number of different companies who sponsor the conference, my attendance does not have any kind of requirement. In terms of doing an episode on any of the topics that's really left up to me, I rely heavily on some of the travel that I get to experience as a podcaster. As a registered dietitian, as a blogger, I rely a lot on those events, to inspire me to share different topics with you to provide new research, but just know that I always am coming back to think through as many sides of a topic as I can. And really think through how to bring that information to you in a way that is meaningful and helpful, and certainly in a way that you don't feel was simply an advertisement. Okay, so that all being said, let me tell you about today's guests. Eric Mittenthal is the Chief Strategy Officer at the North American Meat Institute. He was previously the organization's Vice President of Public Affairs. I'm having him on today because he is now leading the institute's Protein PACT strategy, which you will hear him talk about is really focused on implementing a framework for continuous improvement throughout the meat industry. I'm going to go ahead and jump into my interview with Eric but on this particular pot topic, which I know honestly can be a little divisive, depending on where you fall into concerns about animal agriculture and sustainability and nutrition, etc. I'm going to ask you to stick around after the interview and allow me to bring a couple of additional pieces of information that are not from the Protein PACT. They're not from Eric, they're not even from the sponsored conference that I attended. Allow me to bring those to you for your attention just to get a broad picture of this overall topic. And while I labeled this the Protein PACT episode, because I thought it was really important to be again, clear and transparent about who I was interviewing, I wanted to originally name it the meat guilt episode, because that is where I feel that I see the biggest struggle for people these days is the guilt that they feel from eating meat for a number of different reasons, health reasons, sustainability reasons, ethical reasons, animal welfare reasons. And so what I want to do is, after Eric and I have talked about what the Protein PACT is, I'm going to come back share a couple of different resources and pieces of information that just might help round out this discussion for you. Okay, with all that out of the way. Here we go. Eric, welcome to the show.

Eric 6:01
Thanks so much for having me.

Regan Jones 6:02
Well, it's a pleasure to have you on you know, we've actually known each other for a number of years, I've had the opportunity to visit together at a number of different nutrition comp conferences. But once I started learning more about your role with the Protein PACT, I really decided that this is something that I wanted to bring back to listeners, as I was sharing with you, when we first started preparing for this, I feel like that my audience and consumers in general kind of have some of what I would call is meat guilt. And I'm hopeful that as you unpack what the Protein PACT is, or who or what is behind the Protein PACT, that we can give them a little bit more insight into how, you know, meat fits in truly within the context of an overall healthy and sustainable diet. So first, unpack that, for us, what are who is the protein PACT?

Eric 6:53
The Protein PACT is a joint effort amongst a wide variety of groups in animal agriculture to help reduce that meat guilt. You know, I think people are looking for permission to continue to enjoy the meat products that they love and have loved for generations. And so we want to be able to show as an industry, the proof of progress that aligns with what consumers are looking for, and what people want to see from the industry. And so it comes down to demonstrating transparently our practices when it comes to how we're impacting healthy animals and Healthy People, healthy communities, which is a huge focus as well and a healthy planet. And so we want to be able to show data driven ways that we are making progress and work towards some really meaningful goals between now and 2030. And when you say we, who is the we behind the Protein PACT, it's everybody in animal agriculture largely. So you know, I work for an organization called the North American Meat Institute that works with me companies that you're purchasing your meat from that grocery stores and restaurants. But we work really closely with farmers and ranchers in beef and pork and poultry, work with dairy producers, as well as the farmers who are growing the feed for the animals too. So it is a holistic effort across all the animal protein supply chain, including up to the grocery stores and restaurants that people enjoy to.

Regan Jones 8:24
I know that one of the things that we've talked about in the past is that some of what, or a lot, or most of what the Protein PACT is doing and is focused on really centers around this term that we've been hearing for a while sustainability. So I'm going to put it over to you as as sort of today's representative for the Protein PACT. What does sustainability mean in your eyes? And really, how should people like my listeners, very busy trying to make smart decisions? We've already talked about maybe having some meat guilt that comes from a number of different angles and things that they've heard online or things that they've seen on TV? How should they understand sustainability to make better choices for themselves?

Eric 9:06
Yes, sustainability means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I think if we were to survey the audience, we probably get a whole wide variety of perspectives on what it actually means. You know, I think in a formal sense, sustainability is can be social sustainability and how we're impacting communities economic sustainability, how we're supporting people's livelihoods, and environmental sustainability. I look at at it even in a more simple way than that. It is continuous improvement. It is how do we do better? And for us that looks at a variety of different areas ranging from animal welfare, to food safety, nutrition, labor and human rights and how we're impacting the planet as well. And all of those things are really important together. I think in a lot of cases people think only of what we're doing environmentally. But it is a complete picture and all of them impact each other. And we have to make sure that sustainability is really focused on how we are doing better in a way that benefits people in terms of eating meat as a sustainable choice.

Regan Jones 10:17
You know, I really do think that based on a lot of what we hear, and we see out there, you know, yeah, all you have to do is just pull up Instagram and thumb through a few reels, and you probably see some sort of sensational information discouraging people from eating meat. Let's not beat around the bush like, is eating meat a sustainable choice?

Eric 10:36
Yeah, it absolutely is. And meat is a really key element in a sustainable diet and supporting sustainable livelihoods. You know, first off, when we raise animals for food, those animals are using land that can't be used for other crops, improves soil, how health in stores carbon in the soil, and produces a wide variety of byproducts. You know, I think it's really important people recognize that, you know, we enjoy the meat from animals, but animals are also providing, you know, fashion and clothing through leather, they provide medical products, cosmetics, there are so many things that come from animals that we benefit from. And and it's really important that we utilize all those things from the animals when we when we raise them, then there's also the nutrient density, you know, it's not easily replaced with other foods, you certainly can have a diet without meat that is able to get all the nutrients you need. But also meat makes it a lot easier. And so being able to get all of those nutrients from a small serving of lean beef or chicken or turkey, it provides nearly half of an adult's daily protein needs. And you'd have to eat a lot more of other foods to be able to do the same thing. And then there's also just the developmental aspect of enjoying meat. There's been a lot of research about its benefits for brain health, childhood development. In fact, people as they age, you need more protein and getting nutrients like iron and vitamin A. It's interesting that research has shown those are neutral, micronutrient deficiencies around the world, but also here in the US. And many people don't realize that there are nutrient deficiencies in the US. And meat provides the nutrients that we need in our diets that aren't always we're not always receiving. And so having that complete package of being able to do that is really important. And that's what meets supports,.

Regan Jones 12:45
You know, you made reference there about cattle being basically grazing on land that we can't do a lot with. And I just want to let listeners know I did. I did my own research before I started interviewing Eric, and one of the statistics that I found and you can let me know if, if this is supported by what you know is that 85% of cattle today are actually grazing on lands that we can't grow crops on. So this notion that like we have to do away with all animal agriculture, because we have all of this land that we should be doing crop management on, it's just actually not an accurate assessment. Is that correct?

Eric 13:26
That is correct. It's using land that we can't use. But planning it plant and animal agriculture also depend on each other. There has been research showing that for every kilogram of plant food that we eat that we are growing eat, there are four kilograms of inedible biomass that is also produced. So that inedible biomass for us goes to animals. And if the animals aren't part of that equation, we're sending a lot of plants to a landfill or other places, is extremely wasteful, and also harmful for the planet. And so having animals as part of the equation where you're being able to take that inedible biomass, and feeding it to the animals, is really it's part of the sustainability equation of using everything at our disposal to make sure we're not being wasteful.

Regan Jones 14:19
Yeah, it's that that cyclical part of agriculture that when we, it seems to me as not an agriculture expert by any stretch. But it seems to me when we focus on ripping out one portion of it, we're really doing a disservice to the overall sustainable picture that you talk about.

Eric 14:38
Yeah, we use the term unintended consequences, and it's easy to think about, okay, just take something away and what that means, but what's the ripple effect of making a drastic change in some way, and usually it's quite substantial and not always positive. And so we have to think about all the potential unintended consequences that would occur and I, You know, we talked about unintended consequences, it relates to our diets and our health. And so again, that's, that's where animals play an important part in the overall equation of people's health, planetary health. You know, it all ties together really, really closely.

Regan Jones 15:15
You know, one of the things you also mentioned was nutrient density. And also in statistics, just one thing to kind of put out there, see, if you if your research and your work supports this, I read that it takes about two and a half pounds of grain to essentially produce one pound of beef. So when you're talking about a nutrient density standpoint, and you're just talking about, I would call that from, you know, like just a caloric density, the nutrients that you get out of that one pound of beef and the calories that you have to spend to consume it, I mean, you're really talking about an efficient source of fuel.

Eric 15:52
Yeah, it's an efficient source. And again, going back to that the those, those grains and feed that the animals eating is not able to be eaten by people otherwise, you know, it allows us to make the most use out of out of those products. And contributing really strong nutrition as part of that is an added bonus.

Regan Jones 16:13
Well, I love that whole explanation. And you mentioned the word continuous improvement. And you've talked about a little bit some of the things, but I'd love for you to unpack that a little bit more, talk about the goals that you all have with the Protein PACT and how you're specifically working to achieve those.

Eric 16:29
Yeah, so we have five core focus areas within the Protein PACT, it's about environment, supporting our workforce and healthy people through through our workforce, people's nutrition and food security, food safety and animal welfare. And so we've set very specific goals across all of those areas to verify, measure and verify our progress. Between now and 2030. As an industry, we really had no background in history of collecting data towards those outcomes, and determining where we are and where we're going. And so we've been able to successfully implement what I call a culture change within our industry of transparently sharing data, and to really demonstrate our progress. And we began that process last year where we were able to have a participation from more than 90% of the industry by volume in providing data and put out a report that is available for people to see about where we are as a baseline. And this year, we have been able to follow that on with even more participation and just really strong enthusiasm from the industry to demonstrate what they're doing in a more transparent public fashion. And so we're going to be continuing to build that over the rest of this decade. And we want all of our members to be participating, and really reporting on all of our various measures. And so we have some very specific goals that we're working towards as part of that, within animal welfare by 2025, we want to have our members pass animal handling and transportation audits by third parties. So you know, you have independent auditors come in to determine if companies are handling animals appropriately. And so the majority of companies are doing that doing that really well. And so we want to be able to show that and have the third party verification there. We're working with partners like USDA and Feeding America to help measure and fill the protein gap that exists for hungry families. And what that means is, you know, the charitable food system is always looking for food and animal protein is a key part of that. But there's a gap between what is needed to feed hungry people and what's available in the system. And so we want to help fill that gap. You know, people want animal protein, we've talked about the nutrition that provides. And so if we can step forward and fill that gap, and it's largely focused on infrastructure, and helping to support food banks to handle, you know, handle the products and distribute them to, to food pantries around the country. On the environmental side, we want our members to set greenhouse gas reduction targets through setting what's called science based targets. And then we want to reduce our worker injury rates by 50%. From our 2019 baseline that's on top of a 75% reduction that we achieved from over the over the last 20 years. So we've been doing a lot of great work in that area. But we know we can do even better. And so it gets back to that continuous improvement idea. How can we show that in a measurable way? And that's what we've been trying to do with the data from our members.

Regan Jones 19:40
One of the things that I had read in preparation for this interview that really struck me as we think about what I would call meat guilt, you know, it hits everybody, but it certainly hits those people for whom their food budget is very, very tight. There's meat guilt from the standpoint of like, you shouldn't be eating it and there's meat guilt from the standpoint of if you are going to eat, you should only be eating, you know, only grass fed only, you know, pasture raised all of the labels that we think about and that the real criticism is that the way that that affects people of a more modest food budget is that it often puts so much guilt on them that they just will not choose those nutrient dense foods. Any comment on on that fact?

Eric 20:28
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's a really great point. And, you know, we have a responsibility to produce meat in a way that, again, aligns with what consumers are people of all abilities to, to meet their values. And so, you know, there are a variety of options available in the store. And, you know, whether people are purchasing at the high end or more more cost effective products, that all of them are meeting standards that people expect, you know, raising the animals and caring for them appropriately, you know, doing our part to support healthy people and healthy planet and, and supporting our workers and the communities that they're a part of. And so, at any price point, all of those things are critical. And so that's what we want to be able to show that no matter what price point you're purchasing at, all those basic things are happening that we need to make sure we're doing.

Regan Jones 21:23
I'll say that one of the reasons that I wanted to do this interview, in addition to just reducing overall meat guilt, because I know it's something that exists, is that once I learned about the Protein PACT, the fact that it is such a multi faceted approach, and it's not just one singular portion of what you all do in the air quotes, meat industry, that was one of the things that's most appealing about, I mean, it kind of goes back to what we're talking about the very beginning, there's the notion of sustainability, people hear the word sustainability. And they often think they're just talking about some sort of environmental impact. But what I think that you've done a really good job today of is talking about talking about how your industry is approaching all these different parts of your system. So that leads me really to one of my final questions is, you know, you've talked about for you, for you all for this portion of the food sector, I would say what you all are doing, but can you talk about how this work, like fits in with what others in the food system are doing?

Eric 22:20
Yeah, there's a massive amount of work occurring in the entire food system on all of these areas. It is it is something that doesn't get a lot of attention, that that the companies and the farmers and ranchers that are producing food, put so much energy into, you know, improving our practices, doing so in a measurable way. You know, what we've been doing is built on the foundation of efforts like the US roundtable for sustainable beef, which was developed almost a decade ago, and was one of the first in the beef supply chain to develop measures and and all the areas that we've been talking about. And so we're utilizing that and, and there's really great work going on there. In the pork sector, you have a program called we care that has the same ethical principles as what we're what we've incorporated into the Protein PACT. And they are working directly with their farmers to ensure you know, best practice standards on animal care and environmental impact in producing the most nutritious products as possible. There's a there's an effort called the US roundtable for sustainable poultry and egg that we're members of, again, very similar, and that it's occurring in the feed sector as well, where there's efforts like field to market, which has a data platform that allows producers to input their data and get data back about what what best practices are and how to improve what they're doing on their their land. And so there's, there's so much, there's so much going on, and there's so much momentum and also more that we can learn and do as well. And so that's what I do on a day to day basis is really connect into those efforts, you know, determine what are those back best practices? How can we implement them? How can we support the industry to implement best practices and get the data to show that we're doing it and so it's a lot of work, but it is really occurring throughout the supply chain. And it's good work that's occurring. And, you know, I've been in the I've been in the food business for a while as a dietitian who's been around for a good while and worked with different commodity groups over the years. And it just is really encouraging to see so many positive and proactive roundtables and groups that are really focused on, you know, making this whole system, the best that it can be not only for the farmers, the ranchers, but the consumers, the animals and as you as you saved the planet as well.

Regan Jones 24:49
So, Eric, is there anything else on this topic or the Protein PACT that I haven't asked you about that you think listeners need to know?

Eric 24:57
Yeah, we have lots of information available on our website at theproteinpact.org, we're active on social channels, Instagram, and X, I guess it's called now formerly Twitter, Facebook, and as well as LinkedIn. And so you know, for people who want more information and to be up to date on what we're doing, would encourage them to, to check us out in all those places. And, you know, this is this is a long game, you know, it is really easy for us to want to say that, you know, we're going to achieve things in the short term and push for it. But the reality is that it takes time to implement changes. And it's a change management strategy that we we want to implement over, you know, the rest of this decade. And so this isn't something that you're just going to be hearing about now. And it's going to go away. You know, we anticipate it'll be around for many years, and something that the industry is committed to doing over many years. So, you know, we will be at this for an extended period.

Regan Jones 26:02
So for our listeners that did not catch the website, or any of the social media profiles, I will of course, be sure to place a link in the show notes, and show notes are available in whatever podcast app you are listening to this podcast on. They are also always available at this unmillennial life.com. And as a reminder, the website that Eric mentioned is the proteinpact.org. Eric, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Eric 26:26
Thanks so much for having me.

Regan Jones 26:28
So obviously, that wraps up my interview with Eric, I said earlier in this program that one of the things that I started to title this episode was the meat guilt episode. And the reason that I thought about titling it that way is because I do find in talking to people that there are various buckets of guilt that people have associated with eating meat, whether it's the loss of life for the animal, whether it's concerns about environmental impact, whether it's concerns about health impact, and then there's also just a guilt associated with am I eating the wrong type of meat, it should I be eating a different type of meat. So this is such a broad topic. It's frankly, a controversial one, I'm not looking to stir up controversy. And I am certainly not looking to convince someone who is committed to a vegan or vegetarian diet that they need to start eating meat. But I would say for people who enjoy eating meat, and we'd like to continue eating meat, hopefully what this will do will give a little bit of broader conversation and more insight into why maybe the guilt that has been heaped on people isn't necessarily as warranted as you would think. So I think the best place to start in terms of meat guilt would be the guilt that is associated with the loss of life of an animal. And I think most people would agree that is something sacred, to be honored and thankful for anytime an animal loses its life for food production. But here's the part of that conversation that was shared with me a few years ago that I never really thought about. And that is that there is actually no diet, vegan, vegetarian or otherwise, that is a bloodless diet. And by that I mean that any type of agriculture ultimately results in some loss of life for the animals that live in and around that farming area. If you aren't familiar with Diana Rodgers, she's a registered dietician, who has the account sustainable dish, and she appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast a year or two so ago, I'm not sure how long it's been. But that was how I actually discovered her. And her account has a post where it talks about the fact that there really is no such thing as a bloodless diet. And so if you'll allow me, I'm just going to quote, something that she says in her post, again, not to push this notion on you to get you committed to eating meat if you're already a vegetarian or a vegan, but really just to give you something to think about when you think in terms of the loss of life that is just overall associated with agriculture, and that is not to pay agriculture in a bad light. Because, you know, I don't think that there are any of us who, for the most part, want to have to produce all of our own food. And even if we did, I think that these things that I'm about to say in this quote from sustainable dish, are going to still come into play. So let me just read to you what she says and this is a portion of one of her Instagram posts. She says it's important to understand that a meatless diet is not a bloodless diet. Many animals lose their lives in the process of farming vegetables, birds, and butterflies are poisoned by chemicals. Rabbits and mice are run over by tractors and vast fields of monocrop vegetables displace native populations of animals that once lived on the land. The farming of vegetables is not humane to rabbits. I didn't know necessarily understand just the part where she pulls out rabbits per se. But I think that you see the bigger picture. And that there are all types of animals that are living in and around the soil. And those animals do lose their life when those soils are tilled for agriculture. So again, the notion that completely eating a meatless diet, something that does not entail, the, you know, the loss of life for a cow, for instance, doesn't necessarily mean that and I don't mean to simplify too much here that a mouse did not lose his life. And so, you know, she kind of goes on in there, the commentary on her post is quite confrontational. She goes on to say, what loss of life is acceptable? Is it acceptable for a mouse to lose life, but it's not acceptable for a cow, when I've also seen and I don't have a reference for this, but I think it's a good thing to think through when you think through the loss of life, even when you think about the loss of life for a cow, and how much food and different usable products like Eric mentioned, that one loss of life yields and produces, compared to, you know, smaller animals that multiple lives are lost. So, you know, again, it's something to think through something to really kind of check it against your moral set your worldview, your values, but that is framework that I think people who have never considered that whatever they are eating, unfortunately, or however you want to look at it, it is not necessarily a completely bloodless diet. And that's as much as I'll say on that, because, again, I know it's a very personal decision. And I totally respect that. But I think that that's important information to take into consideration. Okay, next up on the meat guilt conversation is a little an area that I'm a little bit more comfortable talking about probably the most comfortable talking about, because it involves something that I mentioned with Eric and that is really like the caloric spend the calorie spend, that someone would have to eat in non meat foods to get the same amount of protein in meat foods. I have talked on this program a good bit about protein over the years and the importance as we age so that we can prevent things like sarcopenia. So that we can, you know, in combination with lifting weights preserve the muscle that we have that helps with healthy aging, but we haven't really talked about what that looks like in terms of, say 20 to 25 grams of protein per meal, which is often what we're aiming for, like, what would that look like calorie wise, if you're eating meat versus eating something like lentils, which are a wonderful food, lentils are a pulse, an easy source of plant based protein. But take this into consideration when you're thinking about what we're talking about. And lentils actually are not even really high on this list. In terms of the caloric spend, you would have to eat one and a half cups of lentils, which is a pretty hefty serving to get 25 grams of protein, which would be the same as eating only four ounces of beef to get 25 grams of protein. So those kind of seem comparable, but the caloric difference is four ounces of beef is 180 calories, whereas one and a half cups of lentils is 345 calories. Now let's move you know up the list up the chart and I can tell you that there is a chart on sustainable dishes, Instagram, where she details this, I'm gonna give her credit for that. But let's go up the list and let's talk about everybody's favorite. I shouldn't say everybody's favorite, many people's favorite food that often gets classified as a good protein source and I love it and I include it in my diet. My kids eat it. I think it is a wonderful food. I've talked about it here before I use it a lot in recipes over on this baking life. And that's Peanut butter. Peanut butter is a yummy, wonderful food and it does have protein in it. But to get 25 grams of protein, you would have to eat seven tablespoons of peanut butter. Okay, again, 25 grams of protein is only four ounces of beef. And you may said here's why I like peanut butter enough. I could easily eat seven tablespoons. And you know what, I don't disagree. I could tell you love peanut butter, but from a caloric span. That's 665 calories. So a tremendous, tremendous amount of difference in terms of how many calories you would have to eat of peanut butter to actually get 25 grams of protein. If you want to get at the top of Diana's list she lifts keen while you know quinoa had I think probably its heyday has maybe come and gone. But a lot of people point to it as a grain based it's technically not a grain. It's a pseudo grain but a grain based source of protein. To get 25 grams of it, you'd have to eat three cups and that 600 and 66 calories. So that is important to keep in mind. There certainly are ways to build a diet that is diverse in a lot of these different healthy foods. I'm as you know, adding in sources of protein, but to rely on them exclusively to get the amount of protein that most healthy aging experts are recommending. It comes at a pretty high calorie level. Again, not saying it can't be done, but it is something important for you to take into consideration. Next, we're going to move away from some of the information that Diana Rodgers has shared on sustainable dish. And I'm actually going to move over to one of my good good friends, colleagues and just dietician that I love looking to for nutrition advice, especially when it comes to feeding kids. You've heard her on the show here that Sally from real mom nutrition, and she has a post that I'm going to link to I'll link to actually Diana's Instagram account, and I'll link to Sally's blog. Sally has a post on real mom nutrition titled, What is a factory farm? Your questions about beef answered? Okay, so factory farming is definitely a hot button item. It is also I find it to be very divisive. There are people who certainly are concerned about the way that they perceive that beef is produced. And there are people who I see, frankly, who are very dismissive, as if there are no real concerns, and I tend to be someone who finds that the sweet spots probably somewhere in the middle. Okay, so one of the things that I wanted to point out about the information that Sally has, and this is really something that you can verify in many different places, is that the notion that conventional cattle in this country that aren't labeled as grass fed the notion that they never set foot into a pasture and they never graze on green grass is absolutely false. And even farmers and ranchers who do produce exclusively grass fed as a label exclusively grass fed beef, they will tell you that same thing, no matter how the beef is produced all beef graze on grass for the first several months of their life. It is only grass finished beef finished being the last few months of their life. It's only the grass finished beef that spend their whole lives eating grass, and they never go to a feed yard or a feedlot. I'm not going to get into feed yards and feed lights. That is again one of those topics that I know that there are people who have concerns about and if you want to read more about what Sally has to say, I highly encourage you to go and read her post. She's even has a whole section that talks about factory farming. And is there such a thing as feed free range beef, what is the difference between grass fed and regular beef. But I wanted to point that out because that was a Baja moment. For me, I didn't realize that that virtually all of the cattle that you have access to through the meat counter, so to speak at your grocery store, no matter if it's labeled grass fed or not labeled anything that cattle did spend the majority of its life grazing. The difference, again, is in that last few months when they're either finished on grass, or finished on grain in feedlots, so may be a topic for another day to talk about that. But we're gonna move on to one last aspect of meat guilt, and then we will work on wrapping up the show. And the last one arguably, is just a personal commentary. I mean, I've seen this echoed online. And I tread into this very carefully, so as not to offend you. If you are someone who is extremely passionate about what you feel is a food system in this country that's not headed in the right direction. And I will be the first to tell you that if you and I were to sit down and, and have a glass of wine or have a cup of coffee and talk about some of the problems within the food industry in the food system, I could agree with you probably in a lot of different places. I do not think that it is a perfect system. By any stretch of the imagination. However, we are exceptionally lucky to live in a country where we have the access to high quality and abundant food even if right now it is exceptionally expensive due to inflation. But again, that is a topic for another day. But in terms of meat guilt, I think the only thing that concerns me in time, is when I see conversation about demonizing conventional meat, it really does concern me that there is arguably a lack of consideration for people and I said this in the episode so I'm recapping I know in some of you think I probably recap too much and I do I'm sure I do. But there is a touch of lack of understanding that there are just many people in this country and I think right now more so than ever, who absolutely don't even have the ability to consider whether or not they're buying conventional versus grass fed, they're lucky to just be able to afford meat. And based on, you know, kind of what I've said about the nutrient density for a small amount of food, a small amount of calories, there's a lot packed in to those animal based foods. And so I would agree that there's always room for improvement. I think there's definitely room for improvement across our food industry. And I think Eric mentioned that today that that's what they're looking for is greater transparency among their members, and continuous improvement and coming back and reporting on those improvements. So I think that we all can agree that we can push the conversation forward towards continuous improvement, but not do that in a way that demonizes the foods that are available to people right now in the here. And now that we don't do it in a way that demonizes them so much that people either one give up and say, well, heck, if it's all bad for me, I'm just gonna buy the junk food, it's cheaper anyway, you know, so we don't demonize that or make people feel as if they can only afford conventionally raised food. And that that is something that they are doing a disservice to themselves and to their family, I certainly can say, as, as a mom, you know, sometimes I have to make decisions, and now more so than ever, about what I can put in my cart and what I can't, because inflation and just change in my work has made it so that my food budget is as tight as it's ever been. And there can be moments of guilt, when you think, Oh, I wish I was able to buy this and or I wish I was able to buy that. And I think it's can come off as a bit elitist. If we have a conversation that does not acknowledge that oftentimes people are doing the very best that they can with the resources that they have. So I hope that's not too preachy. I don't mean for it to be it's something that's kind of been on my heart and mind. And it's frankly, something that has been evolving for me over the last few years. If you had asked me to do a talk or do an episode on a topic like this, I don't know seven years ago, I probably would have had a different take on things but you know, life has a way of clarifying in the importance of certain things and also giving you a bit of empathy for other people and seeing things in a way that maybe you hadn't before. So anyway, this has been a big episode today. And as I have said in the past, if anything that I had said today is something that you take issue with or you find fault with or you'd like to have a bigger conversation about you can always reach out to me Regan at this a millennial life.com You can reach me on social media, I am on Instagram these days with two different accounts. I have my baking Instagram account where I'm sharing all of the baked goods that I'm doing on this baking life. And then I also have an Instagram account just for this a millennial life podcast which is at this millennial life, and you can message me there you can also leave me a voicemail. I know I've said that over the few years and we used to get a lot more voicemail than we do now. But you can always if you don't want to type out an email and you want to send me some feedback you can go to this a millennial life.com and leave me a voicemail. As I wrap up. Let me just ask you to consider if you liked this a millennial life giving it a five star review on whatever podcast app you are listening to this podcast on. And of course, sharing it with someone who might enjoy and appreciate today's episode. And with that, I'll say thanks so much for tuning in listening, subscribing, downloading and of course sharing with friends. Have a great week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

One of the many decisions women often have to make when diagnosed with breast cancer is whether or not they want to test for breast cancer genetics. This episode discusses aspects affecting that decision, from cost to insurance implications, future screenings, other cancer risks, and more.

 

THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• https://findageneticcounselor.nsgc.org
• https://www.facingourrisk.org/

• The Breast Cancer Diagnosis Episode
• The Scalp Cooling (Cold Capping) Episode [Part 1]
• The Scalp Cooling (Cold Capping) Episode [Part 2]
• The Rapunzel Project® Episode

COMMERCIAL LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE ON BREAST CANCER GENETICS

• Your Color Guru - use code REGAN for 10% discount

EPISODE KEYWORDS RELATED TO BREAST CANCER GENETICS

podcast, umillennial, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50

cancer, breast cancer, genetic testing, BRCA 1, BRCA 2, genetic counselor, Breast Cancer Awareness month

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling and grammatical errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
Hey there podcast listeners. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to do a little bit of housekeeping briefly, to let you know that if you were a subscriber via email for podcast notifications, there is a good chance that you have accidentally been moved over to a mailing list that is exclusively for my new baking website. And I will tell you upfront, I am sorry about that in trying to segment lists, and yet the people who wanted to be receiving notifications about the baking website, thisbakinglife.com, and people who want to receive notifications about the podcast, ThisUnmillenniallife.com, there's a little bit of overlap there. And so what I want to ask you to do is that if you want to be sure that you are getting notifications, email notifications, anytime I release a new episode, please click the link in the show notes. It'll direct you to this unmillenniallife.com/subscribe. Or you can just put that in your browser, thisunmillenniallife.com/subscribe. I have tried to do my best to clean that list up and make sure that you are where you want to be. But there's nothing like you making sure that you're getting those notifications. So if you've not been getting email notifications from me that episodes have been releasing, please go ahead and sign up. Now let's get on with today's episode.

Regan Jones 1:16
If your skin doesn't know whether to breakout or wrinkle, if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans, or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40-something knees ache, you've come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

Regan Jones 1:41
I'm your host, Regan Jones, and welcome to today's show. So I'm releasing this episode in the latter part of September, but we are quickly going to be in the month of October very soon. And as most of you know, October is breast cancer awareness month. But for me Breast Cancer Awareness is something that we can talk about any time of the year. And today's episode is going to not only feature my full length interview with a breast cancer geneticist as we talk about breast cancer genetics, but I'm gonna come out back at the end for the odds and ins ending and talk to you briefly about a few things that I experienced or testing that I had done a procedure that I had done when I was diagnosed with breast cancer that are so different than what my mother who we talked about briefly in this episode, because of the genetic component of this, my mother had in either of her breast cancer experiences in the mid 90s. And in the early 2000s. So the reason I point that out is because I have somewhat joked in time in talking to people that it's not your mother's breast cancer anymore, there are things that are still quite standard or haven't changed a lot in the last few years, namely some of the chemo drugs that people take for breast cancer treatment. But there are a lot of new things and new tests that are available, not only as we're going to talk about today in terms of your overall genetics, but there are things like tumor genomics and different types of lymph node biopsies. And that's the stuff that we'll talk about at the end. So I hope that you will listen to this entire episode today and take from it some very helpful and powerful information that I hope you never need to know for yourself. The likelihood is, as I have stated on this podcast before, the fact that one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer means that there's a good likelihood that you will know someone at some point who is diagnosed with breast cancer and my hope would be much like I found much of this information helpful as I was going through my breast cancer journey, that you will be able to share this with them and they will as well. Okay. So briefly, let me tell you about today's guest. Today's guest is Charly Harris. She's a certified genetic counselor, and she has a little over four years of clinical cancer genetics experience. She works at the Medical University of South Carolina, and sees patients with personal and family histories of cancer. She's also an instructor of cancer genomics within the college of health professionals. I was able to connect with Charly because of the genetic counselors that we have available here in my area at the breast health center that I still go to today. Those have breast cancer genetics or they're really cancer genetic counselors. I shouldn't just say that it's breast cancer because it's not cancer genetic counselors. They come to our hospital via the program. They're at the Medical University of South Carolina. So I'm so appreciative of Charly taking the time to share this information. With all of us today, Charly, welcome to the show.

Charly Harris 4:49
Hi, Regan. It's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Regan Jones 4:52
I really really appreciate the opportunity to interview you. This honestly has been another episode that I've been working on for for quite a while listeners have gotten used to me saying that there have been a lot of episodes that I've been thinking about and kind of researching and trying to find the right guest. And I'm so appreciative that you are able to talk with us today about breast cancer genetics, as listeners have heard in the lead in to this episode, as a refresher, and a reminder, you know, this is a very personal topic to me, because I was one of those people who, unfortunately took some dated information about my family, and kind of transferred that up to modern day and assumed that I did not have any breast cancer genetic risks. And had I known that I did carry this gene deletion that I have, I might have been, I don't know, maybe more inclined to do a little bit more aggressive testing, although I will acknowledge always got my mammogram. So that was, that was not something that I let go by the wayside. But I'm hopeful that what we can do today is really talking about some common myths and talk about who should consider genetic testing, what kind of information we get. So let's go ahead and jump right in. Talk to us about some of the common myths that you as a certified genetic counselor, here when it comes to breast genetics, breast cancer, genetics and genetic testing.

Charly Harris 6:15
Absolutely, we hear so many common myths that have been around for many, many years and continue to just be perpetuated by other institutions or providers. Unfortunately, the number one myth we will hear is that genetic testing is so so expensive, we have so many patients, patients who are just afraid to even schedule with us because they're worried about that cost of testing. For many years, that was 1000s of dollars, we're now at a much lower cost. Most patients paying $100 or less for that testing, most of the time appointments being relatively low cost as well. So we really want people to not be afraid of such high costs, and never even stepping foot to learn about our services and genetic testing. Another huge myth that we hear is when it comes to male relatives, unfortunately, we do have a lot of patients who still really think that if your dad's family has breast cancer that in no way is that going to come down to you. We do hear patients regularly say, Oh, my dad's doctor told him that because it's from him, he can't pass it on to me. And we do see patients who have different mutations and their dad's side of the family, and they could have been tested for many years and just didn't because of that myth that was going on. And then we see patients who do have male relatives like sons and brothers and they think in no way do I need genetic testing, I already have cancer, I don't want to share any information with female relatives, I have none. But really a lot of the genes that we can test are not only affecting women, we do see many restroom male relatives as well. So this is going to impact pretty much everyone in that family history.

Regan Jones 7:47
Yeah, that last one is a really, they're all good clarifications, and I want to comment on all of them. But that last one's really good clarification, because I know for me the gene deletion that I have puts me personally at increased risk for obviously breast cancer, but also it's associated with increased risk of prostate cancer and increased risk of colon cancer, both of which are, you know, male-oriented, just as one prostate cancer being male-oriented, and colon cancer being something that, you know, essentially knows Miss gender. I also, I would just say, I really appreciate you clarifying about the expense. Because I didn't know that myself, I knew that once I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I think I was offered within a certain period of time with my diagnosis, the testing for free, I don't think that I ended up paying anything, but I remember, at the time, my genetic counselor saying even if you decide to wait, and it really is a hefty decision for people, you know, to go ahead and decide to do genetic testing, and we'll talk about all that. But even if I had waited, I remember thinking, oh, gosh, it's really not that expensive to have it done. So I really appreciate that you clarified both of those. So, you know, looking back over the years, I do recall that I had a doctor at one point, who said to me, you know, have you considered having genetic testing done To which I responded, oh, you know, my mom has been tested and she doesn't have bracket one or bracket two. That doctor obviously identified and I wish we had talked about it a little bit more that I was a good candidate for genetic testing. Who would you say are people that should consider genetic testing for breast cancer risk

Charly Harris 9:29
for us, we will typically recommend the people who have cancer themselves being our primary candidate for genetic testing are going to be our most informative people. So the common hereditary cancers are seeing breast ovarian, pancreas, prostate, colon, but we are very aware that these people are not always available, maybe not willing and sometimes very much in the middle of some heavy treatment. So we're really recommending family members who have people who are very young in their family with cancers people who had like two with three people with the same cancers on the same side of the family, some rare cancers in their family, people who might have had relatives in the past who did genetic testing 20 years ago, and are not available to retest, and we can really look at those families again, revisit that same idea.

Regan Jones 10:18
Okay, that last one is a really good clarification, because I think what I gathered from that, and and correct me if I misunderstood this, when I had a doctor approached me about it a number of years ago, and I said, I don't know, I'm not sure that I want to go through genetic testing, it could have been that I could have gone back to my mother at that point and said, Can you be tested again, because we now know there are more genes that have been identified that are associated with breast cancer that we didn't know back when she was first tested for braca. One and braca. Two is that is that kind of what you're saying? Cuz she was, she was the person who initially was diagnosed, it was my mother, her, her mother, her sister, and her great grandmother, our her grandmother had had breast cancer. So it seems like even if I didn't want to be tested, if she she had been willing to test again, she would have been a candidate,

Charly Harris 11:12
exactly, she would have been our really most informative person, if we didn't find her answer of breast cancer and her we wouldn't need to test everybody else. If we find it in her then we are able to test other relatives and and get a better idea of who we would say is what we call a true negative. If we have a mutation and mom and family members, and our relatives are testing negative for that, that gives us the most information about risk reducing is much closer to general population risk. Whereas when we have people who can't test all their relatives with cancer, we're never going to get an answer for those people. And we can still reduce the risk a little bit. But it's not as informative as testing the people who can give us the most answers.

Regan Jones 11:50
One thing that I did want to ask and you didn't mention this in your myths. But it is something that I know came to mind when I was getting ready to be tested. And it's kind of actually an uncomfortable answer. It was very uncomfortable when it came up. But it really is about whether or not getting genetic testing. And what it says about you can somehow affect insurance and or life insurance for the future. So is that something that you can expand on and talk a little bit about? And let me say up front? I knew in that moment, this was the uncomfortable part that my genetic counselor said, essentially, well, you have cancer. So your life insurance effect, the effect on your ability to get life insurance has already happened because you have this diagnosis. But I know that health insurance is something that's of concern to people. Can you talk about that?

Charly Harris 12:43
Absolutely. We have a law that came out in 2008. It's called the genetic information non discrimination act, or what we will call Gina, it came out and it actually protects health insurance and employment. So health insurance and employment can't request our patients genetics records that can't use them in any way to take away health insurance, decline it change premiums, people can't be fired, not hired because of these genetic test results. Obviously, health insurance might come across these results if they need to help cover some of the management, but they can't use them against you, with the law, unfortunately, and to this day, still cannot protect Long Term Care, disability and life insurance, anything in place. It's safe, it's protected. It's when we have people who want to go and get genetic testing because that family history, they themselves have not had cancer, they might really want to consider Am I happy with that life insurance, if not definitely something to do before we move forward that testing because we do unfortunately, see people who are young, they have no history, and now we're telling them they have a much higher cancer risk. And while our goal is to help reduce it and prevent it, life insurance is going to see that as a pre existing condition. And we do see people denied

Regan Jones 13:53
Yeah, that's so unfortunate. I mean, you know, I understand it, I guess, in some ways from a business standpoint, but you know, having a genetic marker is not an absolute prescription for you are going to get cancer. I mean, it certainly increases your risk. And I would say that what I've learned about it is one of the most important reasons that I'm glad that I did it is not that I don't know that I could get breast cancer, I mean, that ship has sailed or I know that but because there are these other cancers, I can be more mindful to monitor for them it you know, it it essentially sent me in for getting a colonoscopy probably quicker than I would have, you know, knowing. And that's really what my medical team kind of stressed was the big takeaway is that once you have this information, it doesn't necessarily change anything but it puts you on alert to just be more mindful of monitoring and getting tested and, and just being on top of those things. So gosh, that that is very frustrating. But it also kind of goes back to what you said in the very beginning somebody who already has the diagnosis in your family if they are the person who can do I get the testing done. You know, they're the person that has honestly kind of been already affected by a diagnosis. But something to consider. And I would just say personally, I would give the advice. And I'm curious, I'm assuming you would feel the same way that if you are going to do genetic testing, you meet with a genetic counselor like yourself ahead of time, before you get the genetic testing done, so that you can talk through kind of all the ramifications,

Charly Harris 15:27
right. And I absolutely agree, obviously, a little biased. But we do have patients who do some random research studies, or they'll have a family friend order a test, and they get to us. And we do have to break the news that you might not ever get life insurance now. And that's something that it's not widely known. And we do see it almost weekly, where patients are really surprised by that. So when we have patients who come back as having some kind of mutation, we really push to talk to their relatives to do look at their insurance before they ever even make an appointment. We don't want anything in their records that could prevent them from getting anything. Um, so we do provide handouts, we talk about it a lot. But like I said, just not everyone knows about it. So it's really hard to make sure that everyone's getting the same protections that they should get.

Regan Jones 16:10
Yeah, that's one of the additional reason that I wanted to do this podcast is to just get people armed with that information so that they, you know, decide to go about things in a stepwise process that, you know, basically gives them the best information, gives them the best consultation and protects them for the future. And on that same note, what is your advice then, for women who would like to meet with a genetic counselor would like to potentially consider this? How do they I mean, I know that I found, I found our genetic counselors because of the breast health center that I had here at my hospital. But how do people go about doing that? You know, in their, in their locations?

Charly Harris 16:48
Great question. There's actually a really wonderful resource. It's a website called Find a genetic counselor.com. We have a National Society of Genetic Counselors, or in SGC, who has created this source for all of us to put in our information and say, whether we're willing to have patients contact us, it really helps you even narrow it down to like your city, you can narrow it to whether you want to be seen in person or virtual, you can go through and look at all the names that pop up and contact those clinics and find somebody who can help you get those things scheduled. So it's really, it's really a one stop shop, to where even if you want to help relatives, that's where I send all my patients to you can put in any study and find people, unfortunately, not everywhere, has genetic counselors. But with the COVID situation that we had, we are now seeing almost everybody offering these virtual options. And while we do have laws that prevent certain counselors from going outside of their state, I'm seeing I'm seeing coverage in almost every state every location that people can find at least somebody virtually if they need to.

Regan Jones 17:48
And so the website that Charlie just mentioned was find a genetic counselor, I will of course, place a link, as I always do with every episode in the show notes, so that you'll easily be able to find that. Now. I think that just the last, I guess question before we move on, would be just for you to kind of walk through with people what information that they can get from genetic testing. And really, when they get that information, you know, what should they do with it?

Charly Harris 18:16
So we can get a few different things from genetic testing. For somebody who has a history of cancer, obviously, our first goal is, is there an answer here for why did you develop this cancer? For some people, it can help their treatment, especially when we're seeing people who are diagnosed with breast cancer, and they're not sure what kind of direction they want to go in surgically, some of these results might lead them towards a larger surgery. And we might change those plans based off this test results. For some people, it could change types of chemo that might work better for you. But our other big goal that we see a lot of people wanting to do is how does this help relatives? What does this mean for our children or sisters or brothers? With this, we do get back information that tells us are there other cancer risks that maybe we're just not aware of? Even though mom might have breast cancer? Are there other things like we were talking about with that colon cancer that prostate? Is there anything we can do for relatives to help determine what are our best management plans? Do we start screening sooner? Or do we screen more often, we do see people who are starting some of these breast screenings as early as in their 20s, which is not something the average person can go and do. And we're seeing people get extra management extra care that the typical person can't just walk in and ask for these things. So we're not trying to scare people into anything. We're not going to sit here and say you've got all these cancer risks. Our big goal is to really empower our patients with this information to help make the best health decisions they can. What can we do to help with anything, and a lot of the times we're always available and happy to help find these resources. We're not going to just let you be on your own to face these cancer risks. We really want to help you find these providers get these things done help you keep up that management. So that way we are reducing Cancer as much as possible monitoring it more often than the average person.

Regan Jones 20:03
Yeah. And you know, it's that monitoring component that really does ultimately, for most people lead to early diagnosis. people here who've listen to this podcast, they know my story. And unfortunately, I was not diagnosed as early as you one would hope because essentially, my, my cancer was missed on mammogram. But that's not necessarily the norm, you know. So what we hope is that people who know that they have a genetic risk for any type of cancer are just going to be a little bit more aggressive in being monitored, and making sure that, you know, when that appointment comes up, they don't just say to themselves, Oh, I'm busy, you know, they put that to the side, or I need to reschedule that or not even schedule it, that it'll give them an opportunity to be a little bit more aggressive with, with their monitoring. A couple of other points that I wanted to expand. And while we've talked about maybe some of the unfortunate parts of what can happen, like you mentioned with life insurance, and some of those types of things with genetic testing, and whatever it shows, I want to flip it back to maybe a more positive note insight, because you alluded to this in your in your last answer. And that is that for someone like me, there are extra monitoring steps that I will be taking basically for the rest of my life the insurance pays for because I am in this risk category based on this gene deletion. Whereas you know, I think that's, that's a positive, you know, if I if if I didn't know this, I don't know that the same monitoring in the same carrier would be happening. So that's just, that's one thing. And I, you know, I know, insurance is all over the place, and what people get covered for and don't get covered for even amongst different, you know, just the same insurance company and different plans can be crazy, complicated. But in my case, it does put me in a risk category that helps me get some additional testing. That's one just comment that I wanted to make. The other thing, I don't know if you can kind of walk this out a little bit. But I remember when I sat down with my genetic counselor, one of the things that was most impactful to me and and sitting in the moment of you've just been recently diagnosed, there's so much information coming your way, and so many overwhelming decisions to make, and it can be almost crippling, and I remember initially being very hesitant to have genetic testing done. But my genetic counselor showed me in some of the material, it was like a grid, and it showed all of these different gene mutations, deletions, and all of these different cancers. And it was like, it was it was almost like a chart where you could say, Okay, for this gene deletion, it increases the risk for this cancer, this cancer, this cancer, but not this cancer. Can you just kind of talk about that a little bit, because that that made such an impact on me to see that it's a big matrix, it's not just one cancer, for the most part with any of these genes,

Charly Harris 22:57
definitely, we have anywhere between about 80 to 100 genes that are commercially tested right now, the lab I tend to use is about 84 genes, what we call our multi cancer panel. And it's very, very few genes with another only going to have one cancer risk. It's rare that I am contacting a patient and saying we're only fine, this one cancer risk for you. So for a lot of people, it is a lot of information, but it gives us a lot of things to focus on. And we're always learning new things. We constantly tell people, while we're telling you today, there could be these three cancer risks, we want you to revisit this idea every couple years, make sure we're not discovering new information, new risks that we can focus on. But we do like you said, we do have charts that they're really great visuals that have a list of cancers going across the top and all the genes going down the side. And so many of them are overlapping. And that's why we really have kind of strayed away from let's just test these like five breast cancer genes, we're really doing a lot larger testing, we don't want to miss anything, because we're we've learned so much in the past even just five years, that there are so many cancers that could be related to genes that we just didn't know about. And we really want to just tell us as much as we can, that the patients are willing to and comfortable with. So that way we can target anything that we can bind.

Regan Jones 24:19
Yeah, that's a really good explanation. And the reason that I highlight it is because again, as I talk to people, oftentimes I will hear their story. And it's a lot easier to, you know, kind of look at things differently on this side of my diagnosis and kind of see where I used to make some assumptions, but I will hear people talk about their family history of cancer. And there it does seem sometimes to be this tendency to, I think kind of like what you were talking about in the very beginning, you know, male cancers, air quotes, male cancers versus female cancers, there does tend to seem to be this acknowledgment that oh, well, if this was a predominant cancer in my family only, then that's the only one that I'm at risk for. And I think that's kind of where I've come to realize, unfortunately, for those of us who have some sort of either gene deletion or mutation or whatever the risk is in multiple categories. And the good news is that for some of them, it's not in other categories. And that was very reassuring to me, because there were some particular cancers that I was concerned about the risk for, and for my particular gene deletion, deletion, they don't show up at this point, you know, as being high risk for that. So, Charlie, is there anything else about breast cancer genetics, or genetic testing in general that you think that my audience needs to know,

Charly Harris 25:39
I think something I realized I haven't really hit on a lot is the importance of even getting a negative test result. And what does that mean for people, when we have those that are especially unaffected if their mom and their sister, and everybody has breast cancer, and we can't test those people, it's not that we can't test them, we're still going to test our patient. And while it's limited, and what information we can get, we can never determine if mom had a genetic mutation, at least we can get rid of some of those really high risks, we have genes that are as high as 60 to 80%, breast cancer risk. And if we can pull all that out, we're still going to put our patients above the 12% general population, we still might recommend some high risk screening, but we're going to rule out a lot, we're going to give people a peace of mind, we're going to be able to say, hey, with this really large panel, while we have breast cancer in the family, we're still going to put you at a closer general population risk for other types of cancers. It's still valuable information that we can give, even if it's a little limited. And I think for many years, we failed in that category of telling people, you don't have cancer, we don't need to test you, or a lot of people thinking, Oh, I have negative genetics. So I have no cancer risks. And those aren't really what they mean. But we can still give you so much valuable information with that result.

Regan Jones 26:51
Well, Charlie, you have just been packed full of knowledge today. And I really appreciate it. I know that we gave everybody the mention of the Find a genetic counselor website. But do you have any other websites that you would like to direct people to for more information

Charly Harris 27:08
I do, I have also included a link for facing our risk of cancer empowered, or what they call force, it is a group that I have worked with a lot, a ton of my patients find lots of value in it. It is geared towards women who have done genetic testing and have found a genetic mutation that was created by a woman who she herself has a genetic mutation was not finding the things online that she could really get value from this website is kind of everything you could ever think to Google but still being in a very safe place. And there's so much about clinical trials and insurance coverage and finding message boards and support groups. And I would encourage even people who haven't done genetic testing, if they want to go and view their articles about hereditary cancer, it's just such a safe place for patients to go to and get valuable, correct information without having to be scared by things on Google.

Regan Jones 27:58
Oh, that's, that's a really good resource. And I actually put an asterisk beside that website in my notes, I'm gonna, of course, include a link to it in the show notes, but I want to go check it out as well, because I wasn't familiar with that. And I can tell you, as you all to well know that if you get out there and you start Googling your gene mutation, you will very quickly jump off and decide, You know what, I don't want to see some of those stories. So a safe space is a good thing when it comes to looking at that information. Well, Charlie, I really appreciate you joining me today. Thanks so much.

Charly Harris 28:30
Thank you.

Regan Jones 28:32
Okay, that wraps up my interview with Charlie, I'm going to drop in a quick commercial break. But please do hang around for the odds and ends ending of today's show. To preview for you what we're going to be talking about, I'm going to talk to you a little bit about genomic testing, which is different than genetic testing, I'm going to talk to you about braca one and braca two, just so that we can lay the foundation of of two terms that I've mentioned in this podcast multiple times. And then lastly, I'm gonna talk to you about a sentinel node biopsy and how that differs from what has been done for many, many years with breast cancer surgery.

Regan Jones 29:06
Today's broadcast is brought to you by your color guru, your color guru.com is where I went this last year to get my color consultation done. And there's a little bit of comedy in thinking about having your colors done. I say that in air quotes because many of us as unmillennials, remember back in the days of the 80s of doing your color, but let me tell you what your color Guru is doing is so far beyond that. And they're giving you so many tools when you actually have your colors done. And the reason that I say so far beyond that is because back in the day, when we would find out what our colors were I think it was like four seasons winter, summer, fall and spring but your color Guru is much more robust than that. For instance, I'm a moonlit summer which is different than a sunlit summer. And one of the things that I love the most about your color guru and the color consultation consultation One that I had done is that it comes with a color card, I have both a printed card that I can throw in my purse, so that when I am out shopping, I can pull that card out of my purse and hold it up to anything that I'm looking at to determine, hey, is this one of my best colors. I also have the JPEG on my phone. So if I don't have the card with me, I just simply look at my phone and it has been invaluable. It makes shopping so much easier. So if you are interested in having your colors gone, or gifting it to someone else, you can get 10% off of your color guru consultation by simply using the code Regan, which is our E g a n at checkout at your color guru.com. There's a link in the show notes.

Regan Jones 30:44
Okay, as I said before I dropped in that quick commercial break. My goal really today in this episode is to make it a fairly comprehensive episode that talks about some of the things that are what I consider newer in terms of breast cancer, either treatment, or diagnostics, surgeries, procedures, things that, you know, when my mom had breast cancer years ago, not that many years ago, but years ago that weren't available or talked about now, you've heard me mention, at least I believe once in this episode, and I'm fairly certain in my comprehensive episode that I first did when I was diagnosed, that my mother did have genetic testing done after her second occurrence of breast cancer. But at the time, the only genes that had been identified as an increased risk of breast cancer, were BRCA 1 and BRCA2. If you've never heard those terms, let me briefly explain BRCA 1 and BRCA2. Two, because they are the most commonly recognized breast cancer associated genes BRCA 1 and BRCA2. They really are called BRCA 1 and BRCA2 because they are labeled as breast cancer. So B our breast cancer ca genes one and two are the most well known genes linked to breast cancer risk, everyone actually has BRCA 1 and BRCA2 genes, but some people have an inherited mutation in one or both of these genes that increases their risk of breast cancer in the general population in the US about one in 400 People have a BRCA 1 and BRCA2 gene mutation. However, the proportion of people who have a BRCA 1 and BRCA2 gene mutation does vary by ethnic groups. And I want to make this point that among Ashkenazi, Jewish women and men, about one and 40 have a BRCA 1 and BRCA2 gene mutation. So very different incidents there in that particular group of people in terms of the proportion of people who have bracket one or bracket to gene mutations. And the reason that BRCA 1 and BRCA2 are really important to talk about is not only that it's a significantly increased risk of breast cancer beyond the general population, but there also is an ovarian cancer risk. So it is associated with BRCA 1 and BRCA2. So again, really the oldest breast cancer genes that we know of. And in terms of overall risk for breast cancer with people who have a BRCA 1 and BRCA2 gene mutation, their overall risk is more than 60% higher for women who have BRCA 1 and more than 60% higher for for women who have BRCA 2 the general population risk is 13%. So I know I threw a lot of numbers out there at you, I don't think that these are things to necessarily commit to memory. But it's just to illustrate how prominent BRCA 1 and BRCA 2 are in the conversation about genetic risk for breast cancer. And so I have found as someone who does not have BRCA 1 and BRCA 2, but I do have a different gene deletion, I found that people just seem to know a lot about BRCA 1 and BRCA 2, but they don't about these other genes. And that was why I wanted to have Charlie on today to discuss the fact that there are what did she say? I think she said 84 genes that she looks at, you know, in terms of different risks. Okay, so that's genetics. All right.

The next thing that I want to bring to your attention in the event that it's ever helpful to you or to someone you know, is that there also now is something called genomic testing. Specifically I know of two cancer genomics. And when I say cancer genomics, I mean, these are this is genomic testing that is done on the actual tumor itself. I know of two different ones, Oncotype and MammaPrint and my guess is that you likely have not heard of either one of these fairly new tests. But what these tests do is essentially help determine or predict how likely cancer is to respond to certain types of treatment and or have a recurrence. And these are big things, especially when it comes to MammaPrint. It's more for early-stage cancers. These are big things to know When you're trying as I was to make a determination about whether or not you wanted to take chemo and let's be honest, nobody wants to take chemo. But when they're able to give you some statistical indication of what your decreased risk is, with your particular type of genomic tested cancer, your tumor that's been tested, the genome has been tested for it, when they're able to give you some sort of idea of statistically what kind of increase reduction of recurrence risk you will achieve or likely to experience by taking chemo, it really helps to make a very, very tough decision. So I am not going to go into all the science behind oncotype or MammaPrint. Frankly, I am not an even learned enough to speak on it super intelligently. But I can tell you, from my experience, I really didn't want to take chemo and there was some conversation about whether or not you know, the risks outweighed the benefits, excuse me outright the with risks, that's certainly a conversation when it comes to taking chemotherapy. But knowing some of the things specifically about my tumor, and kind of pooling that with other people who had had exactly the type of cancer that I'd had, and knowing how that could add to a reduction in risk for me, made it a much easier, I guess, decision. And I would say, again, as a very comprehensive episode, where we're talking about a lot of different things about cancer. I've mentioned it briefly in this episode, and probably said it in passing in the past. You know, one thing to know about people who are newly diagnosed with breast cancer, and I'm sure many, many other diseases is that it is absolutely overwhelming the number of tough decisions that you have to make, I think people tend to often think that, you know, you have a physician that's making all the decisions for you. And I'm sure that that happens. But by and large physicians are giving you information and letting you make the decision based on what's right for you. And when it comes to things like cancer treatment, oftentimes, what you find yourself looking at is like, I don't like any of the decisions, like I don't like any of the choices. And that is why having some of these new technologies that can take a little of the emotion out and the fear out of the decision and put it back in the hands of statistically, this is what we know. It really does, I think help with some of that decision-making process.

Now, the last thing that I wanted to briefly mention to you and something that I did not have to struggle with in making a decision was having a sentinel node biopsy, let's talk about what a sentinel lymph node biopsy is. If you have ever known someone who had breast cancer surgery, a number of years back, my mom falls into this category, you may recall that they often when doing either a lumpectomy or mastectomy, would take out many many lymph nodes that you know, would run down the side of their arm and just be in this whole area. And it would make it so that sometimes some of those women experienced swelling, lymphedema, make it so that you know they never could have blood drawn from that area, no sticks on that arm, because they're essentially just taking out all the lymph nodes and doing that in order to see if any of those lymph nodes had been invaded by the cancer cells. Well, in recent years, the breast surgical oncology community has begun to transition not entirely, but many surgeons and my surgeon was one of them has transitioned to what's called a sentinel lymph node biopsy. So the sin a sentinel lymph node is as it's been explained to me what they call the first drainers out of the out of the breast and taking a step back, you know, your lymph system is all over your body, you have lymph nodes all over your body that are, you know, aiding in immunity and you have of course, a cluster right around your bet breast and what they can do with a sentinel node biopsy is they can remove only the first drainers the first lymph nodes that the limp fluid from the breast will drain into, they can remove just those that can be anywhere from I think, one to three, somewhere in that number. I had two removed that were identified as sentinel lymph nodes, and they can look at just those as an indicator of whether or not the cancer has spread to those lymph nodes. And I won't go any farther in terms of like what happens next, if all of the lymph nodes that they take out are involved. I think there potentially can be additional surgeries. In my case, that was not the case. And there were no additional nodes beyond the sentinel lymph node biopsy that had to be done. One of the reasons that I share this is because in talking to people who work in breast surgical oncology, you know, especially for younger women, and I'm knocking on the door of 50. But when I was diagnosed I was 46 years old. So certainly considered a younger woman in terms of diagnosis, very active. As you all know, I was lifting weights, right up until the day that I was diagnosed and got back into lifting weights while I was taking radiation, and it was really very, very important to me to be able to, as much as possible maintain, you know, my activity level. And because of some of the complications that people experience when they have all of those lymph nodes taken out of their arm, that really gave me some concern and hesitation. So like I said, that was not a difficult decision for me probably couldn't have done it any other way. And that's what my surgeon does. He specializes in sentinel lymph node biopsies as a part of his breast surgical oncology care. And I just have to say he is just absolutely one of the best doctors and surgeons and physicians that I have ever come across. So easy, easy decision, there have been very, very happy with it. And again, just share that with you so that you know some of the evolution and the improvements that have been made in breast cancer care. If this is your first time listening to This Unmillennial Life and you don't know my story, you also might be interested to know my experience cold capping, which is a process of using a cold cap scalp cooling system to help reduce hair loss during chemotherapy. And as a comprehensive wrap up for this whole episode. What I'll do in this particular episodes, show notes, I'm going to place not only links to the websites that Charly mentioned, but also I will place links to the episodes that I've done in the past where I talk about my breast cancer diagnosis, there's some really, really important information in there, just in terms of breast cancer being missed in women who have dense breasts, the importance of asking for an ultrasound, if you ever get called back for a diagnostic mammogram, and they're identifying an area of concern, really being an advocate for yourself. And then I'll place links to three different episodes that I did about my coal capping experience, because that arguably is one of the ones that people know the least about, but is the most intriguing and interesting to many, many women who will have to take chemotherapy, but we'd like as much as possible, not to lose their hair, if possible. So with that, I will wrap this episode up and I'm going to ask you to please share this episode as we do enter into October as Breast Cancer Awareness Month. One of the things that you can do is share this so that other women kind of see the bigger picture of what's happening in the breast cancer community. Being armed with information is one of the best tools that you can have in your corner when you are diagnosed with breast cancer and having some positive stories about some of the new technologies is very, very reassuring. So I want to ask you, just to consider how you could share this a text to a friend sharing it on Instagram, sharing it on Facebook, if you're not in the Facebook group, that group is at facebook.com/groups/ThisUnmillennialLife I will be sharing of course on my Facebook page and on my Instagram page. Instagram is ThisUnmillennialLife for this particular podcast. I will be sharing information about this episode. And if you can hit the share button and pass that along in time for breast cancer awareness month. I would personally appreciate it and I also just appreciate anytime that you share This Unmillennial Life with a friend sharing with a friend is by far one of the best ways that This Unmillennial Life grows. And with that, I'll say thanks so much for tuning in today. Listening, subscribing and downloading. Hope you have a great week

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

For years dietitians have used formulas to estimate (imperfectly) a person's metabolic needs. But a new company using well-established technology is taking the guesswork out of metabolic testing using doubly labeled water. Today's episode talks about the precision of the science and the implications for unmillennial women in midlife who want to gain a better understanding of their bodies and overall calorie needs using the best at-home metabolism test.

THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT THE BEST AT-HOME METABOLISM TEST

• Calorify - use code JENNA for $505 discount

RELATED LINKS

• JennaBraddock.com "Eating for Purpose" Program
  • Previous episodes with Jenna:
    • The Creatine for Women Episode
    • The Muscle Cramping in Teen Athletes Episode
    • The Enneagram Episode (Part 2)

COMMERCIAL LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

• Wild Grain - get $10 off the first box + FREE Croissants in every box!

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, umillennial, unmillenniallife, Gen X, podcasts for women, women over 40, women over 50, metabolic testing, at-home metabolic testing, doubly labeled water, Calorify, best at-home metabolism test

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
Hey there podcast listeners. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Wild Grain. If you haven't heard me talk about Wild Grain before, it is a phenomenal company offering artisanal breads and pastas. While you certainly know by now, given the fact that I've launched a new website, this baking life.com I am most happy when I'm in the kitchen, baking things for my family and friends. But I don't always have time to do that from scratch, even as a baking blogger. And that's where wild grain comes in. Wild grain is a subscription box with bake from Frozen sourdough breads, artisanal pastries, and fresh pasta. So they sent me a box. And I've got to tell you everything that we've tried out of it so far has been amazing. The breads are super yummy. And it's not just bread, but as I said, they have pastas, and they have pastries, I've made their for science, I've made their sourdough bread, everything has been top notch and high quality. So if you want to try some really good delivered to your door ready to bake items, you're gonna want to give wild grain a shot. And the good news for you as a listener of this unmillennial life podcast is that the first 50 people to sign up through the link that's in my show notes get $10 off their first box plus free croissants in every box. And I've already tried these with my family. They are delicious. Okay, so again, just look in the show notes for Wild Grain subscription. And now let's get on with the show.

Hey there podcast listeners. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to do a little bit of housekeeping briefly, to let you know that if you were a subscriber via email for podcast notifications, there is a good chance that you have accidentally been moved over to a mailing list that is exclusively for my new baking website. And I will tell you upfront, I am sorry about that in trying to segment lists and get the people that wanted to be receiving notifications about the baking website, this baking life.com. And people who want to receive notifications about the podcast is a millennial life.com. There's a little bit of overlap there. And so what I want to ask you to do is that if you want to be sure that you are getting notifications, email notifications, anytime I release a new episode, please click the link in the show notes. It'll direct you to this a millennial live.com/subscribe. Or you can just put that in your browser, this unmillennial lifecom/subscribe. I have tried to do my best to clean that list up and make sure that you are where you want to be. But there's nothing like you making sure that you're getting those notifications. So if you've not been getting email notifications from me that episodes have been releasing, please go ahead and sign up. Now let's get on with today's episode.

If your skin doesn't know whether to breakout or wrinkle, if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans, or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees a you've come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

Regan Jones 3:10
I'm your host, Regan Jones and welcome to today's show. So at some point, when you're listening to today's interview, you're gonna hear me say something to the effect of this is probably one of the most enlightening interviews that I've done in the seven seasons of doing this podcast. And I tell you that is the honest truth. I did not know anything about doubly labeled water for metabolic testing. When I went into this interview I had briefly been told about it from one of today's guest, Jenna Braddock. I'll tell you more about Jenna in just a second. But I just really didn't know anything about the science and had no idea what a tremendously powerful and accurate measurement of metabolism it is. You'll hear us talk about that, as dietitians. Jenna and I both were educated on a total different system of not actually measuring metabolism, but estimating metabolism. And so what you're going to hear today is the science behind how we can actually now truly test someone's metabolism and other things through this technology that glorify is bringing to consumers. It's been around the technology. I've learned this through the interviewer for many, many years, but it's now something that's accessible to us. So you're going to hear all about the technology, the implications for us as unmillennial men and women who may want to participate in this metabolic testing. So what the implications are and then of course, we'll make sure that you understand how you can do this for yourself if you're interested. Okay, so this is a pretty lengthy interview. I am not going to do and odds and ends ending of today's show. I'll tell you that upfront, but I am going to take a few minutes before we jump into the interview to to introduce both of my guests. Alright, so the first guest is Jenna Braddock. You've heard Jenna on the show before we have discussed teen athletes in the past. We You have to we have touched on the Enneagram. And most recently she was on the show, talking about creatine for women and I will of course place a link in the show notes to all the episodes that Gemma has done with me I know that you're going to enjoy her she's just a really good interviewer. She just covers things really well and in an easy to understand why and I'm so thankful for to her for bringing to my attention, this opportunity in this testing. If you aren't familiar with Jenna, briefly, let me give you a little bit of her bio. She's a performance dietitian. She's located in St. Augustine, Florida. And she specializes in sports nutrition, and helping everyone that she works with perform at their best. She says that her mission is to make healthy easy. And you can also find her all across social media and on the internet under that kind of brand name make healthy easy, and she really likes to equip people to fuel for energy, trust their body and live with purpose. Okay, so that's Jenna. You're also going to hear Jenna probably in a future episode as she and I talk about something totally different and talk about our experience with a faith-driven entrepreneurs group. That's really how Jenna and I have kind of cultivated and deepened our friendship and I just appreciate her so much. Okay. And then the other guest on today's show is Hari Mix. Hari is the CEO of the company that we're going to be talking about that's doing this technology. The company is Calorify. Hari holds a BS and PhD from Stanford. He was a faculty member at Santa Clara University prior to starting Calorify. During his time at Stanford Hari was one of the fastest distance runners in the world. And this is so interesting following his running career Hari's drive to climb the world's highest mountains without supplemental oxygen, ultimately, is what led to a passion for metabolism and the idea for Calorify. He's a fascinating individual. And also, just like Jenna, an excellent, excellent interview, he was a wonderful guest. And I just appreciate them both taking the time to share this information with me. And you. And with that, I'll say, Jenna, and Hari welcome to the show.

Jenna Braddock 7:10
Thanks, right. Here.

Regan Jones 7:12
Yeah, well, I was just telling you guys that this will be, even though I'm in my seventh season for the unmillennial life, this is a first and having two guests on at one time. So we're gonna play this by ear and see how it goes. I know it's gonna be wonderful. And I'm thrilled to have you both on one because I think you both bring unique knowledge to the table Hari, you as the founder of the company, Jenna, you as a dietitian, who, you know, has had the opportunity to do the testing and are using it in your own practice. So I appreciate both of you. Joining me today, I think the way that we need to open this up really hard is a question for you about metabolism. So that's kind of how I have pinned this episode about metabolic testing. And you know, we're gonna talk about what doubly labeled water is. But let's first just start with a basic definition of metabolism. And then maybe you can address some of the common myths, women especially have about metabolism in middle age.

Hari Mix 8:09
Okay, excellent. Yeah, that those are great questions. And I think they're really valid questions, because people oftentimes hear the word metabolism or even use the word metabolism and don't necessarily have have the best understanding of what it is. So we each have 37 trillion cells in our body. And this is, you know, the the set of all of the chemical reactions that sustain life in your body, that's metabolism. So everything that your body is doing to stay alive. When we talk about metabolism at the company, we're oftentimes talking about energy metabolism. So each one of those cells requires energy. And so metabolism is basically you're burning that fuel, you're burning that energy to sustain life. And so that's what we mean when we talk about it. So we're talking in you know, in this case, a lot of this conversation is going to be talking about those, those units of energy calories, right? So how many calories per day? Are you burning, things like that? That's what we mean, when we talk about metabolism. Sometimes other people are talking about a specific aspect of metabolism. So you might see a, you know, a magazine in the checkout aisle. And this kind of speaks to some of the myths you you brought up maybe. So a lot of those are people talking about maybe you know, your glucose metabolism or maybe some other aspect of it. And I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. And there are a lot of ways to get kind of lost in the weeds. And so I think hopefully this conversation is a way to kind of step back and look at the big picture. In terms of common myths. I think that we all kind of still tell stories about ourselves and about our bodies. We all like to kind of create narratives. And the problem with just creating the narrative is that nobody's actually been kind of measuring anything. When when we actually do measure metabolism and this has been done at really large scale in the scientific literature actually is Scientific Adviser Hermann Ponsor at Duke has done a lot of this work, we really see that there are mainly two controls on metabolism. One is basically how big you are. So how much lean body mass not fat mass, but how much lean body mass everything else in your body that you have. So the bigger you are, the more calories you burn, not not too big of a surprise there. And then the other thing that shouldn't be too surprising is, you know, the second factor, which is your activity level. So the more active you are, the more calories you burn. I think that there's a lot of of mythology there about getting into middle age, maybe having kids is when you noticed that your your weight changed, your body composition changed. And a lot of people attribute that to metabolism. When we look at the literature, we see that people tend to have pretty stable metabolisms through adulthood. So they basically, you know, it increases at birth, and then you know, oftentimes peaks in late adolescence, pretty stable throughout your life. And then it really starts to drop off and kind of later middle age, so kind of postmenopausal for women kind of age 60, or thereafter, is where things tend to start to decline for people.

Regan Jones 11:12
Okay, that I'm gonna say, I'm gonna raise my hand and say yes, myths, I, these are facts that I did not know. So I'm gonna be the one that's going to be learning a ton today as well. Were there other myths that you wanted to go over? Because I have a question for Jenna, just about, you know what this what this means for us in terms of measuring it,

Hari Mix 11:31
I would say the other major kind of category in terms of people saying, well, my metabolism slowed down after fill in the blank would be that there are things that you can take, like certain supplements or whatever, that will boost your metabolism. And there are some things out there that are snake oil, there are some things out there that are illegal wouldn't recommend either of them. Basically, the best way to boost your metabolism is to either put on lean body mass, which is to say build muscle, for example. And then also to increase your activity level. So no, no, no silver bullets and their shortcuts really sadly.

Regan Jones 12:10
Okay, so that's a pretty good myth to dispel for people right there. I will ask one clarifying question. You also would put thyroid medicine in that same category. And that's one of those that I wonder about, because I hear people say, you know, oh, well, once they started taking thyroid medicine to to improve, you know, a hypothyroid condition, they seem to have an easier time keeping their weight where they wanted it to be myth that what do you think about that?

Hari Mix 12:35
I would say fact now, just to be completely clear, I'm not a medical doctor. But yes, I mean, if you have a medical condition that's affecting your metabolism, like hypothyroidism, and then you get that treated, yeah, your metabolism is going to rebound. The other thing is we have and this may be can come up later in the conversation, we have worked with a variety of people that have had medical conditions affect their metabolism. And so just to tease that topic, things like anxiety, and stress can affect your metabolism, things like autoimmune diseases can affect your metabolism. And actually, even my wife is on cancer treatment right now on chemotherapy, and that clearly affected her metabolism as well. So yeah, there are other things related to kind of medical conditions, but I would say for somebody who's healthy, kind of No, you know, no magic out there.

Regan Jones 13:30
Yeah, there's nothing they're ordering off of Amazon. It's just gonna base their base their metabolism. Okay. So wonderful definition. And we've talked about some of the common myths. Jenna, a question for you, especially since I understand you are either currently using this in your practice or plan to, you know, from a dietitian perspective, and especially a dietitian, I know that you are working with some on millennial women. Why do we want to measure metabolism?

Jenna Braddock 13:58
Yeah, that's a great question. So what I'm seeing very commonly in women in their 40s, and 50s, particularly, is that's when they really struggle to feel like they can trust their body, and feel confident about how to fuel themselves as a result of these physiological changes that are occurring. And so that can lead to a lot of traps, it can lead to under fueling, it can lead to over exercising, it can lead to a lot of stress and anxiety about what they're doing as well. So I recommend color five, metabolic testing. When a client is feeling really frustrated or really disconnected from being able to trust their body. Maybe they've been working on their mindset. They're trying to learn to listen to their body, they're trying to fuel their body for energy. They looked at their behaviors and lifestyle. And in a lot of cases with my clients. They really like what's happening. They feel like they've grown they've they have a healthier diet. They're feeling good, but their body composition just doesn't seem to be responding. And so this is have really easy tests to complete. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. And what I appreciate about this type of metabolic testing is that it's an accurate measurement. It's not an estimate, a lot of the other options that are out there for metabolic testing may take a baseline number, but then they estimate a lot of the other data that they're giving you. And this one's actually a measurement of what's happening. And I think that can shed a lot of important light on a person's body, so that they know what's really happening inside of them already referred to the narratives we sometimes create. You know, I work a lot with behavior, change and mindset with my clients. And so when we have like true data on what's going on in your body, we can then look at some of those narratives and begin to ask, well, is that serving you? Well, is this the right way that you want to be thinking at this time of your life based on what we know about your body, and it can really empower them then to really decide, am I overworking my body, my overtraining do I need to add more rest to I deserve more rest here, or maybe they're not feeling enough, or maybe they're feeling their body more than what they require? Maybe they need to break up with their smartwatch or their tracker as a result. So it can really give us such good insight into the body of what's actually happening happening. So that we can then tailor behavior change, lifestyle modifications, eating changes, to really support that unique person to perform better in their life.

Regan Jones 16:28
Yeah, you know, when you shared with me kind of a little bit of this, what you've just shared when we talked about it personally, and I started thinking through what you said about accuracy versus estimate. I mean, you and I both know that as registered dieticians, part of our historic education was trying to determine the absolute best formula to look at someone. And even if we knew something as detailed as their body composition based on a DEXA scan, you're still just making an estimation. And it's one of those things where you think like, gosh, for so many decades, that's that's the tool that dieticians have had to use. And while I'm sure we've all been using the best tool available, it strikes me that this is obviously a huge evolution in being able to really understand what's going on with somebody. So let's talk about the evolution of the science because, you know, there's this, this term that goes along with glorifying what you do. And that's doubly labeled water technology. I mean, that's essentially what you're using for this metabolic testing Hari question for you. I have no idea what that is how that works. So walk us through what that is.

Hari Mix 17:43
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, simply put doubly labeled water is the only way, not just on the market, but the only way ever actually discovered in science to measure real world, you know, calories being burned, you know, in total. So how many calories per day are you burning, which is kind of that number that you are mentioning with these formulas that everyone's trying to get after. And so first let's talk about the competition. Competition are these formulas and they take your age, height, weight, and sex, I'm sure you're both aware of these, and you're gonna get some estimate of your basal metabolic rate, how many calories you're burning at baseline. And then you're gonna have to estimate how much activity that person is doing. You might ask them some basic questions about how active they are at work or in their daily life. And you basically multiply these two guesses together and get this even bigger guests. And when we compare that to the only actual measurement that's doubly labeled water measurement, those are only about 50%. Accurate. Wow. And then you look at the whole smartwatch thing smartwatches and wearables you know everything from Fitbit to whoop or Garmin, Apple Watch all that stuff. Everybody thinks just because it's on a watch. And it's real time data. And it's a cool interface that it must be super accurate. And the answer is no, they're doing the exact same thing that you've been doing with those calorie equations. It's just that maybe they'll add a little bit of, you know, accelerometry, they can tell how many steps you're moving or whatever they might tell tell your heart rate, they only add about 5% more accuracy. So only about 55% accuracy. If you have something like an Apple Watch on those, that means that those can be off by 1000s of calories per day, depending on who you are. So you may be average, it might be accurate, or it might not. And in contrast, doubly labeled water is the way to measure calories in the real world. So let's go for the name first doubly labeled water. It's literally water, h2o, but we've labeled the hydrogens and oxygens on that water. So we've kind of like tagged them or fingerprinted them. And so what we're going to be able to do is track hydrogen and oxygen through your body and then out through your urine. So the way it works for our company, you were the only one on the market doing this. There's only about 14 labs in the world that can do this at all. We have the largest fastest, cheapest and most reliable of them, you're gonna get a kit in the mail, and you know where to order a kit, get a kit in the mail, you're gonna get this bottle of this water, it's literally just a sip of water. And you're going to collect three urine samples over the course of a week. And what the technique is actually doing it when you just mail your samples back little box about the size of a pack of cards, put it in your mailbox and get your results within 24 to 48 hours. And what it's doing is it's tracking hydrogen and oxygen flowing through your body. And what it's solving for is the amount of co2 that you breathe out over the course of that week. So if you've ever done a resting metabolic rate test or a view to max test, you'll wear a mask. And it'll measure how much you're breathing in and out how much oxygen and carbon dioxide, what we're doing is we're getting that exact same signature, but we're getting it in your urine. So a good analogy would be, we're like a sensor hooked up to the tailpipe of your car, there's exhaust coming out of the car, that's like kind of same thing as like your urine. And we are basically by measuring the amount of exhaust coming out that tailpipe, we can tell how much gas you're burning. And so that's what we're doing. We're measuring your personal gas mileage, the rate at which you burned fuel, with this special fingerprinted water basically. And it's it's a it's just unbelievable, because it is relatively painless, it's not invasive, I mean, you have to get this kit, take a week to do it. But it's it's just a simple at home process. And then the accuracy is just unparalleled. So for most of your audience, you know, I'm guessing that they're not the size of like NFL players, for example, most of them can probably expect to have accuracy within 100 calories, which is just unbelievable for you know, the, you know, the actual everything you do in the real world and how much uncertainty there is with everything that you do to be you everything that you you do you know, in your normal lifestyle for the course of a week. It's just unbelievable to be that accurate.

Regan Jones 22:06
That is unbelievable. And very exciting. Now I'm going to ask two more questions before I move on to some additional questions. One, or the first one being about the safety. I mean, you know, people hear things like we're tagging the hydrogen, we're tagging the oxygen, walk me through from a safety standpoint, why that's not something that people should be concerned about at all?

Hari Mix 22:28
Yeah, absolutely. It's a really good question. So this is already in your body. So you already have this type of oxygen and hydrogen in your body. It's just rarer than the normal common water. And so all we're doing is we're just changing that mixture, so we can see it. So it has no effect on your body. Other than that, it's h2o. So it's like you took one sip of this water. And this has been done on humans for 41 years now. And it's been done on all groups of people with an impeccable safety record. So it's been done on infants, elderly people with different disease states, it's been done on pregnant and breastfeeding women. And we've actually, you know, learned a lot of things about that, through this method. It's actually really cool what we've learned about motherhood. So it's been done on every group of people without incident, it really is as safe as drinking normal water, which is just, you know, wonderful as well for us as a company.

Regan Jones 23:29
Okay, and you actually answered my second question, which was just the sort of historical perspective of how new is this technology? And you said, this has been done for 40 plus years. So if I could, let me ask why then all of a sudden, now, are we at a point where it's something that consumers can access?

Hari Mix 23:51
Yeah, really good question. And, you know, allows me to brag about what we've accomplished at the company. The test is actually even older than that. So the math for this was invented in 1949. That's when the theory was invented by this guy, Nathan Lipson at University of Minnesota. And then it was first done on mice in 1955, because it was too expensive to do on humans. And the reason why is that this special water is really expensive. It's a very rare form of water, which makes it very pricey. And so then it took a few decades for basically the price to come down to the point where they could actually start doing human studies in 1982. That was first I'm at University of Wisconsin, and then it's basically ballooned into the being this great research tool. The thing is, it's very laborious and tedious and kind of a one off measurement and you so you can imagine a lab with one graduate student, you know, tinkering one vial at a time and you know, like, very, very laborious and tedious and kind of boutique, and we solve that glorify a suite of problems to basically make this cheaper and faster and more scalable. There was some newer technology in terms of making the measurements that was available starting in the late 90s. Frankly, I'm surprised that nobody did this just a little bit before us. But I think it does speak to the the size of the challenge of basically making this test routine enough and scalable enough that you can commercialize it, and put it into this at home test package, basically. So we solve the suite of challenges to bring the test price down. And to make the results fast enough that for the first time ever, with glorify, you can actually act on your results. So all these academic labs, they've produced wonderful quality data. And it's great, you can read in the scientific literature, these incredible insights. However, there's never been a moment until now that you can actually take a take a doubly labeled water test, you know, so now you can do that from glorify, and you can get your results within one to two days to where, oh, my gosh, now I actually can know my metabolism and then make a change or make a decision based on that information. This is the first time that's ever been possible. So we really are proud of that achievement. But it's been you know, it's been a long time coming. The good news is the the test is bedrock science, we didn't have to reinvent anything there. The test works. And everybody in the scientific community has known that it works for many decades now. And everybody in the scientific community has known that it's safe for many decades now. So we didn't really reinvent any science, we just really, really improved the process.

Regan Jones 26:37
Okay, that is a really good explanation. And very reassuring, really, to hear. Because when you when you first even me as a dietitian, who, you know, certainly does not specialize in any type of metabolic testing. Even you hear this and you think, huh, question mark, you know, how can this be as good as it sounds, but I really appreciate you walking through kind of the history and the safety, and then the science backing all of it up. Okay. So let's move on to really thinking about, you know, if you get this information about your body, what you're going to do with it, like how does it help you and I kind of have two people in mind, I have middle aged women, and then I have athletes, because you kind of mentioned athletes, Hari and so just to kind of continue that thought, why don't you walk through it from a standpoint of what you see this information could do to help someone who is an athlete how it would help them? And then Jenna, I'll throw it over to you. And you can talk about it from a middle age, you know, unmillennial women standpoint? Yeah,

Hari Mix 27:35
absolutely. I think a lot of the goals of athletes are the same as as just everyday people. It's just that they, they really, really need that accuracy. And they really, really need that performance. The performance matters. If you're on Team USA Wrestling, who we've worked with one pound matters, you know, and so they care about that precision, but they have the same goals as a lot of other people. So I think the you know, the main one that jumps out to begin with would be improving your body composition. And when we say body composition, we mean basically how much lean mass you have. So things like muscle versus fat. And so they're going to have the same goals that most of America has, which is they either want to build muscle without gaining too much excess fat, or they want to lose fat without losing too much muscle. So like say, you know, whenever somebody says I want to lose weight, what they mean is I want to lose fat, nobody wants to lose muscle and keep fat. And so they want to do that in the most efficient way possible. What we can do is we can pinpoint how many calories you're both eating and burning, so your complete calories in calories out budget. And then we can help you pick a calorie target in terms of how many calories you should be eating, to meet one of those goals. So, for example, let's take weight loss. You want to be able to lose weight, lose fat efficiently. But you don't want to lose too much lean mass along the way. So you need to be in a calorie deficit, you need to be eating less than you're burning in order to do that. But if you go too steep, get too aggressive. And we see this all the time. We see it in top athletes and we see it in everyday people. You know, when you're getting started losing weight, you oftentimes get super aggressive and you start changing a million variables at once and then guess what it works until it doesn't something's something breaks, and maybe you plateau or maybe you yo yo in and out of that goal, that kind of a thing. And athletes are susceptible to that just like anybody else. So for example, we had a top NBA player was losing weight. We figured out that they were training too much modified that was able to get them into a calorie surplus and they put on a ton of muscle and they've come back a completely different athletes. So there's there's that the second thing that we can do for athletes that probably isn't as big of a deal for everyday people is that we can quantify how much physical activity are doing. And there's no other way of doing that. And so what are this most holistic view of basically your training load. And it's important for top athletes, because they're oftentimes flirting with the maximum amount that you can train sustainably. And so we can actually help pinpoint and make sure that they're training, but not overtraining. And that if they are overtraining, we can help navigate them out of the red zone. And so we've done that with a lot of top athletes as well, for example, a lot of top distance runners we've worked with on this. So yeah, I'll leave it there. But those are the main two, I would say would be improving body composition. So either losing fat or building muscle, or, you know, monitoring their training.

Regan Jones 30:48
And heart when we talk about athletes, air, quote, athletes, we're talking about grown adult athletes, not teen athletes, is that accurate? Because you said something at the very beginning, you know, about like, when your metabolism sort of sort of settles into what it's going to be in adulthood. So we're not talking about doing this with teen athletes, is that correct? We haven't been

Hari Mix 31:09
working with teens, although we are set up to do so I would say this that like, you know, we would we would want to look at you know, where, you know, if it is a teen athlete, you know, what their needs are in terms of still needing to grow. And that's where we really want to work with people like Jenna, who really understand that. One of the things about us as a company is that we kind of view ourselves as a tool. We really like working with people and their doctor or and their dietician or, and their strength and conditioning coach or performance nutritionist or whoever it is. And so we are we are set up to work on younger people. But when I talk about athletes in my answer just now I'm talking about professional adult athletes. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Regan Jones 31:55
Okay, so Jenna, then I want to throw it over to you. And you kind of answer that same question. But as it relates to the and Millennial or middle aged woman, like what would she do with this particular information?

Jenna Braddock 32:10
Yeah, one of the things that is really important to understand about caloric testing is that it's multiple tests in one. So you're getting a slew of data, which typically, you'd have to go and get all these different tests, so you're getting your resting metabolic rate. So that's the baseline energy needs. And that, to me is really enlightening for women, when we talk about the myths around metabolism, and how like the 1200 calorie range is thrown out is what you should be eating to lose weight that is appropriate for very few people on the whole. So that's helpful information. So we get that you get the accurate number of how many calories you're eating each day. So you get the real picture of what's happening, you get your accurate assessment of how many you're expending total in a day, which That in itself, I think, is very enlightening. It was for myself, it has been for a couple of women that I've used this tool with, because they're not giving themselves enough credence on the amount of energy that they're expending in a day. And then we can have a conversation, well, maybe this is one of the reasons you feel stressed or tired or fatigued or overwhelmed, like you're doing a lot here. So we get those three. But in addition to that, we get a very accurate body composition measurement. And we haven't touched on that super closely yet, but you're getting the amount of lean body mass and fat mass in your body, which is typically its own separate, you know, tests on its own. And then two other things, you're getting your hydration level, so you're getting an accurate picture of how hydrated you are. And the last one is that training load, which Hari referred to with the professional athletes, but that once again, can be a very enlightening piece of information, especially if women are active for them to know like, Am I pushing it too much? Do I have more capacity to give here? Or am I sitting in a nice sweet spot. So all of this information for me and my practice, the goal is not to then be like, Alright, here's your calorie prescription, go forth and track like, actually, that is not what we're doing at all. It's more for them to be better connected and informed on their body and what they need in a general sense. And then we can fine tune and tweak. So if a woman's really happy with how they're eating, but they're not able to change that body composition, then we can say, well, you have a lot of capacity here to build muscle or on a regular basis, you're eating more energy than what your body requires. We know that now we're not guessing I'm not shaming you about that. Like this is actually what's happening here. Or on the flip side as well, which I see in the fitness world is women who are like, well, I need to do more exercise and eat less. That's you know, that's the prescription. I've literally had women tell me like, I can't exercise more and I'm eating as little as possible and there couldn't be a more perfect storm for like ruining your life basically.

Regan Jones 34:56
Yeah, no doubt.

Jenna Braddock 34:57
So this gives you like, legit information on your body which when you then work with a dietitian, we can like partner on this and say, Okay, here's what we know about your amazing body. And here's how we can take better care of it with this precise information. And just like Harvey said, even though athletes are, you know, their main job is training for us as women, like we still want to perform. And I know we've talked about this before on the podcast together, like performance matters for us in our lives, whether that's in the roles of our lives, or the jobs we carry, or even how we're managing our home and all the different decisions in our day. And this piece of information can really help us to perform better in whatever matters to you and for whoever's important to you.

Regan Jones 35:38
Yeah, yeah, that's really a good way to kind of summarize, like, why you would want to do this and what the benefits would be. I mean, who, who, who wants to be banging their head up against the wall thinking that they're doing air quotes, all the right things, but really, they just got the wrong formula to kind of get there. A couple of other questions. And Jen, I'm gonna throw this one out at you. We didn't talk about ahead of time that I was going to ask this, but I'm just curious. You sent me your results. And and I will tell tell listeners, I am planning to do this for myself. And then follow up in a future episode to kind of walk through maybe even hopping back home with Jenna and kind of talking about what it what it means for me, but Jenna was kind enough to share her results with me. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Jenna, I looked at it. I was like, wow, that's a lot of calories. Like, were you? Were you at all surprised when you saw the results? What it said,

Jenna Braddock 36:31
Yes, I was. So I burned more calories than I thought I did. And I eat more calories than I thought I did. And I don't mean that in a negative way. But you and I actually eat in a pretty close to an energy balance for that. Yes, you do. Again, like, oh, I can trust my body. Like we're getting the job done here. So yeah, it is incredibly enlightening. And I mean, Hari can can speak to seeing a lot of data. And we've had lots of conversations like okay, what do you see across the board? And this isn't that uncommon? For me to in the research actually shows that people burn way more calories than they think they do. And currently, more than most of these trackers are telling them that they did. Yeah. So it's very enlightening. In that sense. I think you can really learn a lot and again, it some women like need permission or being to feel permission to like relax and rest and recover. Yeah, this is one of those tools that could like legitimately say, like, no, like you can have a real rest day. You can, you can take a nap, you can not go to the gym, and you're going to be just fine. In fact, you're probably going to be better and stronger for it as a result.

Regan Jones 37:39
Yeah, very good point. Very good point. Okay. So is there anybody that you think Jenna, from a dietician perspective, that you would caution? I mean, I know we're not concerned about the safety of the actual testing. But are there any, you know, population groups or people that you would have concern with them doing this type of testing?

Jenna Braddock 37:59
Yes, I mean, I think every, everything is a case by case basis in my practice. And this is not a test I'm recommending for everyone I work with. And it's typically something that comes a little bit further down the line after we've worked together for some time. But if you have a history of disordered eating, or restrictive eating, or calorie counting has been something that has been a really negative piece of your story. And this may not be the right tool for you or the right tool for you at this time. And that's something that I'd say you'd want to talk to your healthcare practitioner and partners with to decide if that's a good option for you. And I think you also have to be careful if you have more of a type A personality. And I don't mean that in any kind of negative way. But just if having more data makes you want to do more data driven things like you know, you can only handle so much. So you want to take it with a grain of salt in that sense. So those are kind of the main red flags, I'd say that you may not be the best candidate for that. And that's where I'm using it within my practice, because I think having that practitioner relationship while you're getting these results, and interpreting them, I think makes them more powerful. And I do want to say, Hari, and you can speak more to this, but everyone who gets their test done through calorifier also gets a console with Hari or his team to run through your results. So for someone doing that, they'll get the results from the company, run through them, and then come back and work with me as well with that data as well. So there's kind of two safeguards there for helping people understand their information appropriately.

Regan Jones 39:33
Perfect. Yeah, I think that's a really good clarification.

Hari Mix 39:36
Yeah, you put out so much there to respond to, but I'm really glad that you brought up the eating disorder one because that's something that we have thought a lot about, and we do screen for many things. So I don't know if you've ever used my fitness pal calorie counting app online, but they won't report your projected weight change if you're not logging enough calories and we do similar types of things. Interestingly, with eating disorders, we are talking to top researchers and clinicians in the field. And you know, thinking about ways that we can actually make an impact on eating disorders, it's just that we would probably want to work via the professional or via the, you know, the clinician, the researcher, whoever it is, as opposed to giving, you know, people directly, you know, the information that they might might misuse. Also, gosh, Jenna, you put out so many things that are pretty interesting here. So, yeah, you're burning a lot more calories than you'd think. And this goes back to one of the myths, the 2000 calorie diet is a myth. That number came from nowhere. So when we look in the literature, and how many calories people are burning, it's not 2000, we have measured people burning plenty less than 2000. Before, it's just that it's not the average, it's nowhere near the average. And I think in terms of the the types of things that we can make an impact on. Because we're measuring your complete calories in calories out budget, we can take the emphasis off of the calorie counting alone, and put it onto energy balance overall, you know, how many calories I'm eating versus burning. And then Jenna mentioned the at home body fat, you know, test component of this, this is the most accurate at home body fat test. And and Regan, you mentioned DEXA, we're very close in accuracy to DEXA. We're closer to underwater weighing or the bod pod, so you get that in an at home test. And so because you've got this combination of your metabolism and your body composition, we can also hopefully, for people that kind of help reframe things, instead of focusing so much on the scale, which is this kind of crude tool that we all have at home, we can focus more on body composition. And I think that's a really, you know, much better way to look at it, look in terms of your your calorie, balance your energy balance, calories in calories out the complete equation, and then look at your body composition, as opposed to just your weight on the scale. Finally, you know, Jenna, you're, the reason you're burning so many calories is because you have a very high physical activity level, that's something you should be proud of. So that's the other thing that we can do here at the company is really take a step back, look at what you do over the course of a week. I know real time data is super sexy, but it's not always the most useful. And say, here's what's going on with my diet. And here's what's going on with my exercise. And so we can quantitatively say, oh, yeah, you're exercising more than when you tested with us three months ago, well done, you know. So I think we have this like very, very zoomed out view of what's going on in your body. We're much more like a budgeting app, like how big is my paycheck? And how am I spending it than we are compared to like a real time heart rate or real time glucose? Or how many steps I just took type of measurement?

Regan Jones 42:46
Gosh, I tell you, I mean, I hear all this. And I'm like, I don't know how anybody could not want to do this. I mean, it's just amazing. Just again, how we even started this whole episode off talking about the accuracy versus the estimate estimations. So the I guess the really the wrap up question is if you know people hear this, and they think yes, this is something that I want to do Hari, throwing it over to you, you know, how can people access this test?

Hari Mix 43:11
Absolutely. So we are live calorifier.com, see, alrify.com, you can order now, it will ship out the same day. If you use code Genette, je n N A, you can get $505 off, you can get the test for 495. We know that's expensive. It's a fact of where we are right now with doubly labeled water technology. The water itself is extremely expensive. But as Jenna was mentioning, you get a lot of tests in one. And there are you know a few aspects of this that are not available any other way. And so this is really cutting edge science. If you want to take that Lunch and Learn that more about yourself. And maybe you're just super curious about yourself. Maybe you have a body weight or body composition goal that you've been kind of stumped on maybe something you were trying was working and it no longer is or you just feel lost. We know that if you take this test, it will at least take the mystery out of it. It's not a it's not a hack. It's not a shortcut. Use, it's not magic, you still have to do all the hard work yourself. It's just that we can pretty much guarantee that you're not going to make a major mistake, right? We pretty much know we're a GPS for your body weight, your body composition, your metabolism, here's where you currently are. And then here's the most efficient route for you to head to get to your goal. And that's what we do for people is we basically demystify What's this really, really fundamental aspect of themselves. So we would love to have you test, like Jenna said, we meet with people as well. So this is you know, not just test results that you don't understand. This is the kind of whole white glove service that comes along with it. And I think that it really can make an impact especially If you've been trying something and struggling for a while,

Regan Jones 45:03
that's a wonderful discount, though I know you threw the pricing out and then said it, you know, you felt like just making the caveat, you know, the price. But that's a wonderful discount. And just listeners know that I always include in all the show notes. For every episode shownotes are available in whatever podcast app you're listening to this podcast on. And they're always available this unmillennial life.com. I'll be sure to place a link to the glorified.com website. And the reminder that the code for the $505 off is Jenna. Okay, before I let you both go, is there anything else about the testing or where people can find you anything else that you think people need to be aware of?

Hari Mix 45:43
No, I'm curious if you have any, any last minute questions on that front, but I think that I think this this conversation has been wonderful. I think it's a great place to start. We have a lot more kind of scientific information and resources and blog posts and all this kind of stuff on our website. If you'd like to try to figure that out and get deeper into the weeds. We are happy to take you there. But But overall, I think this has been a really great overview of of metabolism and measuring, measuring it and what it can do for you.

Regan Jones 46:14
I mean, my eyes are opened, I have done a lot of podcast interviews and I gotta tell you, this has been one of the more enlightening exciting ones. So I really just appreciate Jenna you and Hari both joining me today.

Hari Mix 46:26
Thanks so much.

Jenna Braddock 46:27
Thank you.

Regan Jones 46:28
Okay, that wraps up my interview with both Jenna and Hari, I did want to expand a bit on the opportunity that you have to follow up with Jenna and work with her one on one even if doing the metabolic testing is not on your radar right at the moment. Jenna can be found at Jenna Braddock.com. And I'm going to place a link in the show notes to a really cool plan that she or group rather that she has ongoing at the moment. I think it's getting ready to kick off very soon. It's called eating for purpose. And it's an eight week group nutrition program for women 40 Plus and over. So there will be a link in the show notes to Jenna braddock.com. Jenna works with clients one on one obviously, she mentioned that she uses Calorify as a tool and her practice with people that it's a good fit for, but she also has this group program that you may be interested in.

Regan Jones 47:23
So with that, as I said, I'm not going to do a link the odds and ends ending for today's show. I toyed with the notion of walking you through my new website, this baking life.com I know I've mentioned it here and there. But I really wanted to kind of unpack how this all happened. And especially because there's been some conversation that I've shared with you on previous episodes about my desire to do low carb baking. And if you follow me closely, you know, well, I haven't been doing as much low carb baking, I've been doing more traditional baking and I'm gonna unpack all that for you in the kind of why that website is out there, why I'm doing it, why I'm passionate about it, what you can expect to find if you start following it, but I really feel like that's something that deserves a little bit more space than I'm able to give today. And because this was a more in depth episode, I'm just being mindful of the time that you allocate each week for this unmillennial life. With that I'll say thank you so much for tuning in today. Thank you for listening, subscribing, downloading and most especially sharing with the brand. Hope you have a great week.

Other Related Episodes

• The DexaFit Episode
• The Optimal Aging and NAD+ Episode
• The Glutathione Episode
• The Continuous Glucose Monitoring Episode
• The Ozempic Episode

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

In this episode, you'll learn about one woman's surprise diagnosis of Pulmonary Embolism and why a common medication was likely the cause.

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podcast, umillennial, Gen X, pulmonary embolism, Gen X podcasts, women after 40, women after 50, podcasts for women

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling and grammar errors)

Regan Jones 0:00
Today's episode is brought to you by dry farm wines. Dry farm wines sources wine to the highest standards of quality and purity while most wines sold today, are commercially produced and full of sugar, they can also include up to 70 plus FDA approved additives. Dry farm wines However, sources real wine naturally grown from small family farms that use heritage winemaking practices because they care about what they consume. They lab test everyone and only source wines that meet a strict set of criteria. Every bottle is organically and biodynamically grown lower in alcohol. No sugar, lower and sulfites dry farmed with no irrigation for minute with 100% native non GMO yeast free of additives and friendly to both keto and paleo diets. Dry farm wines is offering listeners of this unmillennial life an opportunity to receive an additional penny bottle so an extra bottle for a penny when they get their first shipment at dry farm wines.com/unmillennial that's dry farm wines.com/unmillennial.

Regan Jones 1:14
Hey there podcast listeners. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to do a little bit of housekeeping briefly, to let you know that if you were a subscriber via email for podcast notifications, there is a good chance that you have accidentally been moved over to a mailing list that is exclusively for my new baking website. And I will tell you up front I am sorry about that in trying to segment lists. And yet the people that wanted to be receiving notifications about the baking website, this baking life.com. And people who want to receive notifications about the podcast, that's unmillennial life.com. There's a little bit of overlap there. And so what I want to ask you to do is that if you want to be sure that you are getting notifications, email notifications, anytime I release a new episode, please click the link in the show notes. It'll direct you to this unmillenniallife.com/subscribe, where you can just put that in your browser, thisunmillennial life.com/subscribe. I have tried to do my best to clean that list up and make sure that you are where you want to be. But there's nothing like you making sure that you're getting those notifications. So if you've not been getting email notifications for me that episodes have been releasing, please go ahead and sign up. Now. Let's get on with today's episode.

Regan Jones 2:31
If your skin doesn't know whether to break out or wrinkle if you're caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans, or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees ache, you've come to the right place. Welcome to this unmillennial Life.

Regan Jones 2:56
I'm your host Regan Jones and welcome to today's show. So this episode is another one that I believe that I mentioned to you at the end of season six that I was getting ready to release it's not been as long in the making in terms of how long I recorded it as last week's glutathione episode. If you haven't listened to that one, please do go back and listen to it. It's very important for us as an aging population. And I hate to say those words, but it's so true to really understand about glutathione and its role as a master antioxidant. But that one had been a couple of years actually recorded. Shelley's episode has been a few years in the making, and you're going to hear us talk about that just in terms of when she first experienced this pulmonary embolism. But this episode has actually not been recorded that long. Alright, so let me tell you a little bit about today's guest Shelley. Rael. Shelly is a fellow Registered Dietitian. That's actually how I know her. She is a private practice dietitian. And she's also a podcaster, author, speaker and consultant. The name of her practice and all of her brands really is real world nutrition. And she explains that as her mission and role being able to help how people can eat in real world settings. She has, as I said a podcast she has a Facebook group a membership program, and you will hear us talk about toward the end of the episode, as always do how you can find her at Shelly rial.com. Alright, so let's jump into my episode with Shelly. I think that you're going to find this story. Very enlightening as to what the risks can be for some of the very, very common medications that many women find themselves taking. So with that, I'll say Shelly, welcome to the show.

Shelley Rael 4:48
Hi, Regan. Thanks for having me.

Regan Jones 4:49
Oh, so good to finally get you on now. People have heard me talk about episodes that have been a long time in the making. This one has been a really a years in the making. We were scheduled to record this interview, actually just right around the same time that I was diagnosed with breast cancer in March, what was that? 2021. So that's, that's been. So as I was telling you, before we started recording the interview, when I went back to start looking at all the different things that I have been considering doing episodes on, I was reminded of you and your story about having a pulmonary embolism, something I know so little about. So, for this interview, I really just want to kind of open the floor up to you and have you tell your impactful story for people because I think that this is something that women really need to know about. So kind of tell me how this all started?

Shelley Rael 5:40
Yeah, well, this was in November of 2020, some at a time where a lot of us may not remember now, but it was a different time in that we weren't. A lot of people weren't seeking out medical care as they usually were. But I'll back up a little bit. I have a family history on my dad's side of blood clots. And I've always been aware of it. And when I fly on planes, I wear compression socks, like they've got fabulous compression socks these days, everyone so and I would take low dose aspirin before I flew because I was always aware that there was a family trait for blood clots. And I'll always thought about your legs or calves, the blood DVT as we call it, the deep vein thrombosis that tends to start in the legs. And that was something I'd always pay attention to. Now, let's talk about November 2020. This was a little over a week before Thanksgiving, on a Tuesday, I had finished eating dinner. And I just remember I had a lot of cruciferous vegetables. So I just assumed that I was uncomfortable because I had gas from these veggies, because it was right in the center of my stomach, or my abdomen right below my sternum. So I just didn't think much about it figure, you know, a day or so later, I'll be better and didn't sleep well that Tuesday night. And just again, figured it was gi related. And Wednesday was doing things, you know, kind of putting my thoughts on the back burner of this being anything serious, although I did make a call to the nurse line. And the first question that is asked is are you experiencing chest pain? And I said, Yeah, cuz it was going to the chest and they said, go to the emergency room right now. And I'm like, No, that kind of chest pain, healthy, not that kind of chest pain. And they wouldn't talk to me further. They said I needed to do this. And being a stubborn person who doesn't like to go to the emergency room because I feel it's something that isn't serious. I didn't go to the emergency room. Now, this is Wednesday afternoon, Wednesday night, I wasn't feeling that great. And even when I can't even remember, I just remember I wasn't feeling good. And I ended up sleeping downstairs and I didn't really sleep. When I say downstairs, it was on the couch, sitting up and didn't really sleep. I had a lot of things going on that Thursday morning, I have delivery expected to deliver as expected, I had a couple of meetings, so I couldn't possibly cancel those to go to the emergency room. So as I walked the dogs both days, I walked the dogs that Thursday morning, and by about noon that day, I could barely breathe. I couldn't take a deep breath. I could very, couldn't really do shallow breaths. And this is where I get admonished. But let me clarify. I did drive myself to the emergency room. It is about three miles from my home.

Shelley Rael 8:46
And a very straight shot. So I do justify, it probably would have been a lot more time to call 911 and have somebody come get me and take me home. You know, I didn't want the drama in the neighborhood either because I'm one of those neighborhoods. Yeah. So this this is a standalone facility near my home. It's an urgent care and emergency room. It's not a hospital that is affiliated with one of the hospitals. And I'll tell you what, when you do say chest pain is no joke that I've always joked about saying, hey, just claim you have chest pain you cut to the front of the line. I was seeing within minutes of walking in the door. And within minutes I was had my blood pressure checked I had leads on my chest. And they did say it wasn't a heart attack. Now, they still of course had to do more things. I got an x ray I had the blood draw and still not quite sure what was going on until a nurse came in and gave me a shot in my stomach which turns out it was Lovenox which is a shot that helps reducing the risk of blood clots. And then I got a CT scan. So I got these very quickly. I think within an hour and as I said November 2020, I was there by myself. My husband was at work. And he had even said, Do you want me to come home from work like, but you can't come in if he was not allowed to come in. So even if he had gotten off of work, what would have been able to do? Nothing. So. So I'd say maybe an hour, it might not have been that long. But when you're in an emergency room, it feels like forever. The doctor comes in and asked me some questions. As if I took any medications. And here's the key for our listeners here is yes, I was taking birth control pills at the time. She said to me, it was a woman, some people have assumed otherwise. She said, What is it 50 year old woman doing taking birth control pills? Well, I'm 51. And I have a six year old grandchild. What do you think? I, the reason, a lot of women take birth control, and I was still capable at that time of becoming pregnant in theory. So that was my last day taking birth control pills. And it's like, she told me I had blood clots in my lungs. And I just burst into tears, because I had an uncle who died at the age of 53, back in 2013, have blood clots in the lungs died. And I was about the same age as him. And it's like you that overwhelming feeling of oh, I don't even know how to describe it. And, as I've said, You say this, and it's not until you experienced you acknowledge that one, like, one acknowledgement of how close you came to being not here anymore. But also I texted a couple people and said, I'm going to be I quickly learned I was going to be admitted to the hospital. And within, I'd say less than 10 minutes, it was probably much quicker. I had people covering work I was going to be doing the next day. Nobody balked at me canceling anything. I had a new clients appointment that afternoon, that person didn't second guess anything. And it was, I mean, the calendar clears when it has to. Yeah, and I mean, that morning, that very morning, I didn't cancel a couple things, because, you know, it was important stuff. Which turns out it wasn't that important. After all, once again, my my husband was calling, wanting, you know, do you want me to come home and like, what, you still can't do anything. And then of course, he took the next day off, because to take care of the dogs and, and and whatever people do when they can't, you know, their hands are tied, they can't do anything. I found out my extended family knew within the hour, thank goodness for text messaging, I was admitted to the hospital. Now that took a little bit of time, I was worried that there would be no beds. Because that was the time where there were no beds, half the hospital I did get admitted to water were COVID patients, and very tight. And so this was about noon is when I drove myself to the urgent care. And by the time I was transferred to our local hospital facility for admission, it was about midnight, two in the morning.

Shelley Rael 13:31
And I'll tell you what, Regan the whole time I was in a lot of pain, chest pain, because those blood clots contribute to a lot of pain. Never ever had anything in my legs that I'm aware of. And I would tell you, there was no signs or symptoms. Other than that

Regan Jones 13:51
I want to ask you, if you if you don't mind me stopping you there. Sure. When you were talking about being admitted, and some of the tests that they ran, and you know, it taking your blood pressure and all these different things. And then the doctor comes in and she says you have these blood clots in your lungs is that they were able to see that through X ray through a CT scan. How are they how do they find those blood clots, specifically

Shelley Rael 14:13
The blood draw, the blood draw that they took the test that they looked at is called a D dimer. And I became a little bit more familiar with it. Through this process. It's not something that dieticians tend to look at when we're in a clinical setting. And it's not a routine check either. Mine was above 13 And I should have done sorry, but 1300 From my recollection, I may be wrong on this. It's like supposed to be less than 300.

Regan Jones 14:43
Okay, so they're kind of looking in they're able to see already whatever's going on in your blood with this marker shows I guess either an existence or a propensity for these for blood clots.

Shelley Rael 14:55
Right. The X ray I don't think showed anything but the CT scan did. And the reason I remember it was a CT scan because it's I've had many CT scans in my life for various reasons. And those just take a few minutes for an MRI takes a lot longer. Yeah, very quick, very quick. And it was, I think it was able to confirm the presence of the blood clots. And when she used the plural, I've never got clarification of how many it was. It was multiple. And here's here's another challenging aspect to this right. Again, I had a routine annual checkup, literally the week before, no issues, I, there was nothing, I get my annual checkups because that's what I do. And there was no flags at that time, I had gotten my lab paperwork to have my blood drawn. And because I had gone on Wednesday morning, the day before I was admitted that my blood drawn and I just didn't, because I wasn't feeling that good, because we had to sit out in the parking lot and wait for them to call us and that sort of thing. So I didn't do it beforehand, a week after this happened. So I was in the hospital for two days. And I'll get back back to that in a second. I had my routine blood draw. Nothing was out of nothing showed. So this is really where I just want to tell people, in part that one, chest pain is no joke, obviously. But I was blowing it off as I just needed to have a balance. And I just need to let the gas pass through that sort of thing. And when Tez pain came up, I was only thinking heart related. It wasn't thinking of anything else.

Shelley Rael 16:48
There.

Regan Jones 16:49
And you know, I just want to kind of add, because I know we exchanged about this a little bit via email a couple of years ago, but I think it's important to add here. I think one of the things that Shelly and I share in common is that we kind of went into, you know, our diagnoses our experience, in my case with breast cancer, her case with pulmonary embolism, as healthy people. And so I do think that that is a risk for people who have and my audience is filled with people like this who have really made health for commitment, and you feel like you know, you've kind of done air quotes all the right things. So it probably does feel like in the moment when you're having this chest pain. You know, this is this is not something serious. Or in my case, when, you know, I felt this lump and I thought, Hey, I've been getting all my mammograms. I'm pretty healthy. Like surely this is just some sort of cyst. And yeah, it just really does go to show, we have to take things seriously no matter you know what kind of what you think you are bringing into the situation. Ideally, you're bringing in a healthy body like you did Shelly and you you come out of treatment for it. And you know, you're you're good on the other end. But I like your message to help people understand you this something chest pain can be something other than a heart attack.

Shelley Rael 18:10
Yes, completely. And as I said that very morning, I had walked my dog, it was a little bit slower just because I wasn't feeling good. I was still remaining active as active as we could be when we were told to not do things back in 2020 or, you know, we couldn't access the gym and that sort of thing. But I was still active. Still did my morning walk with the dogs that Thursday morning with discomfort, outside pain and I was exhausted as well having not slept for two days. And in the hospital, they they were going through various things, just checking my heart to confirm that the end was wrong with my heart and nothing was. And I remember even asking when I was transferred from the urgent care emergency department by my house and then transferred to a hospital facility. I had to go through the emergency room there as well. And I asked he said Oh, you'll probably the doctor in the emergency department said you'll have to go on blood thinners and I was like please not Coumadin. Which as anybody who's gone through their dietician training. I remember my internship that was my job at the hospital and doing the Coumadin training. There's plenty of other blood thinners on the market now that don't have the restrictions that some of us may be familiar with. So I was put on blood thinners that day as well. Started with a higher dose initially as is the protocol and had to follow up with a hematologist which the hematologist and oncologist share offices so yeah, like no no, no, I'm not a no I'm not an oncology patient. Don't push me there yet and they have considered it a provoked incident because of the hormonal birth control pills I was on the blood thinner was supposed to be for six months, just the timing of the appointment. So it was closer to seven months. And I'm not on blood thinners anymore. I did stop the birth control that day as as the date the diagnosis occurred. And I'd say I've been fine sense. And it's just something where I do I tend to kind of casually mentioned now in conversation, because I want to educate people inform people about the risks. And I'll tell you the one benefit about this, my husband was so nervous about everything happening, the inside outside of our house was bought out. There was nothing he could do. Yeah, literally had to sit outside to wait for me when I was discharged. Yeah. And I would talk to him and my phone was unbearable. When I was admitted, in the sense of I was grateful that people were calling me and texting me, yet it was exhausting. Time. And after the fact, i i On one hand, I know that it was a significant thing. And again, because I had my uncle who died from it, that it was serious, it is a serious thing. And at the same time, not fully grasping how much I stressed out my family and friends with this with this diagnosis or with this situation, it really scared a lot of people into what you just said, right, again, is that we're healthy if this could happen to Shelly, if this could happen to somebody I know who's active and eat well. What can happen to those who have higher risk or other things because you acknowledge that you have had have had people in your family who experience the same thing.

Regan Jones 22:11
And as I've been very open to say, you know, I had people in my family that had breast cancer and then did the genetics and actually do have a gene deletion related to breast cancer risk. You know, I just I am always reminded that we do especially as dieticians, we do, you know, really hammer home that there is a lot that you can do to overcome your genetics. But at the end of the day, I mean, we also have to acknowledge, like we, we have certain genetics, and sometimes there are things that you can't overcome. And I've kind of adopted the mentality that my genetics didn't necessarily allow, or my lifestyle did not allow for me to completely overcome my cancer risk. But it did allow me to go through chemo and radiation and surgery pretty healthy, I guess, you know, you don't you don't necessarily feel healthy when you're going through chemo, but you know, come through pretty healthy, and then come back out on the other end feeling pretty darn good these days. And so, you know, I would assume similarly for you. Like I was saying earlier, the help that you took into your experience has also helped it's helped you on the on this end of it. I do have another question for you. So when you were in the hospital, I know they gave you the Lovenox injection. What else did they do to treat a pulmonary embolism? That was pretty much it?

Shelley Rael 23:35
Yeah. That's a good question. Because I asked the doctor on like, how long will it take for this to go away. So I was taking the Lovenox is in part a clot buster, but also to prevent new ones, right. So I was given the medication to prevent new ones that my body needed to take time to break down the ones that were existing. And it was still painful. So I was literally still sitting up. I was probably at a 90 degree angle this whole time because it was still painful in my chest and my back to a certain extent. I said, How long will this take for it to go away? And it said, it can take days to weeks for it to go away. So really, the medication is there, just one, the high dose I mentioned for the first week or so it's there to just help break down the existing clot. But I only had the one shot of Lovenox. And then I got the Eliquis was the one I was given at the high dose, like I said for a week, and it's really just a matter of time the body able to just deal with it, so to speak. And I do remember them mentioning that there was some pulmonary necrosis so some tissue death in the lungs. And I even asked them if they weren't sure if it was that or pneumonia that wasn't pneumonia, I suppose that permanent or will that heal as well? And I didn't really get a straight answer on that. So I still don't know. But I don't have I don't have high concerns related to that, because I'm still able to exercise without issue and that sort of thing.

Regan Jones 25:21
And you now, if I understand correctly, you're not on blood thinners now. And you also you said immediately stopped taking birth control?

Shelley Rael 25:29
Correct. So the blood thinners so that was in November of 2020. And by June of 2021, the hematologist did do more blood work that the D dimer, again, and it was completely normal. And he said, I could just stop. And he still made recommendations that I wear the compression socks in long traveling and even suggested first class. I'm like, if I travel by plane. I think he did kind of roll his eyes at that and acknowledging that it probably was, you know, one of those pie in the sky recommendations. Yeah, I do at home, have a desk my computers on where I can stand and said stand and said, I can move it up and down, no problem. So I tend to be more conscious of whether I'm sitting for long periods. And he suggested that I even car rides, stop and walk every hour. So I don't pay a ton. I mean, I do but don't pay attention to that I don't tend to have long car rides. And I was on a plane trip this weekend, where I was sitting for about two hours, not so much that the flight was two hours, it was just some people on the plane made it difficult and sitting for two hours. Just being more aware. And the birth control pills in the sense of I stopped it. It was managing one not only that I was not going to have another child at that point in my life. It was also managing some other gynecological issues, which it wasn't able to do anymore. And so that led to me having a hysterectomy a little bit later, completely unrelated to the pulmonary embolism. But the birth control had been helping manage some bleeding issues I've been having.

Regan Jones 27:27
And so are you still under the care of the hematologist? Or have you been released from his care?

Shelley Rael 27:32
I was released from his care. Yeah, so less than a year. And when they they said when they classify it as provoked as this is, it's highly likely I'll not need them again. And going back to the leg DVT, or the blood clot in the leg, he said it could have possibly started in the leg. And I just never noticed it. I mean, if I have a charley horse cramp in my leg, I start panicking. And this was even before you know, take some aspirin and that sort of thing. I watch for swelling and that sort of thing. So this is again is one of those where I was blindsided by this because I always just thought it would start in the leg and I would notice it or feel that type of thing when it wasn't. So it did end up being an acute diagnosis for me. So it just a temporary diagnosis, though I will of course listed down the road if I need surgery, or that sort of thing and just remembering like I'm we're going to be traveling to Europe this summer and just be much more conscious of that. sitting for long periods.

Regan Jones 28:43
You mentioned compression socks and then you're talking about your trip to Europe and everything I assume you're going to wear them. Do you have like a specific compression sock that you fly with that you really like and that you would recommend or you just you know, search on Amazon and find whatever is out there.

Shelley Rael 28:58
I just search on Amazon find whatever is out there. There are some that are not as tight. So I got a set that are black and white that are some are striped and have different designs. I have one that are pretty tight. That will probably be the ones that I use that are hot pink Argyle, oh, I honestly don't recall the brand. But I'll just tell you the compression socks that we may think of or remember from hospital settings or you know compression tights of basil are not they're still around, but you can find fabulous designs on Amazon.

Regan Jones 29:35
Okay, that's really good to know. Because I mean, I didn't know I mean, I have a good friend who who has been diagnosed as having a propensity to have blood clots. And so you think about things like that and, you know, cross country flight or across the Atlantic or whatever, and that's something that people need to have at their disposal, you know, something that can sit with them. So Shelly, is there anything else about pulmonary embolism or you know the risk and taking birth control or anything on this whole entire topic that I haven't asked you about that you think people need to be aware of?

Shelley Rael 30:05
I don't think so I just want to just reiterate as much as it may be a pain in the butt to go to the emergency room or the urgent care for something that is gas or reflux or something. Don't Don't. Don't question yourself. I did. And I get, I took myself for waiting two days. And of course, I came out okay on the other end, but there's nothing wrong. And they, the nobody in the healthcare team is going to say, oh, yeah, I can't believe you came in just for gas or something along that line. Don't do what I did and wait.

Regan Jones 30:41
Yeah, yeah, very good advice. And I'm glad that the ending of the story is as positive as it is. So Shelley, I want you to let everybody know where they can find you online because you have a podcast so people can join you on your podcast. And of course, as always, once Shelly details that information, I'll be sure to place a link in all of that, places that she's available in the show notes. So let everybody know where they can find you online, Shelley.

Shelley Rael 31:06
Okay, so my website is Shelly rial.com. Don't worry about spelling it right or wrong, because I own all the binding. And it redirects there, where you can find information that I have about my real world nutrition podcast, it is a short form, just me talking about 10 to 20 minutes about real world nutrition. And I'm on social media, Instagram, shell re L and I have a real world nutrition group on Facebook. Again, if you go to the website, it has links to all of that there. And I do blog twice a week as well. I consider it just a resource library for people to learn more about just all kinds of things, all kinds of things nutrition related.

Regan Jones 31:52
Well, thank you, Shelly, for everything that you're doing in the nutrition world who make it easy and accessible for people. And then thank you so much for sharing your personal story with my audience. I really appreciate it.

Shelley Rael 32:02
Absolutely. Glad to help.

Regan Jones 32:05
Okay, that wraps up my interview with Shelly I'm going to drop in a quick commercial break here. But stay tuned for the odds and ends ending today where we'll be talking about a little pre menopausal, Peri menopausal postmenopausal beauty.

Regan Jones 32:18
Today's broadcast is brought to you by your color guru, your color guru.com is where I went this last year to get my color consultation done. And there's a little bit of comedy. In thinking about having your colors done. I say that in air quotes because many of us as unmillennials, remember back in the days of the 80s doing your color, but let me tell you what your color Guru is doing is so far beyond that. And they're giving you so many tools when you actually have your colors done. And the reason that I say so far beyond that is because back in the day, when we would find out what our colors were, I think it was like four seasons winter, summer, fall and spring. But your color Guru is much more robust than that. For instance, I'm a moonlit summer which is different than a sunlit summer. And one of the things that I love the most about your color guru and the color consultation consultation that I had done is that it comes with a color card, I have both a printed card that I can throw in my purse, so that when I am out shopping, I can pull that part out of my purse and hold it up to anything that I'm looking at to determine Hey, is this one my best colors. I also have the JPEG on my phone. So if I don't have the card with me, I just simply look at my phone and it has been invaluable. It makes shopping so much easier. So if you're interested in having your colors gone, or gifting it to someone else, you can get 10% off of your color guru consultation by simply using the code Regan, which is our E g a n at checkout at your color guru.com. There's a link in the show notes.

Regan Jones 33:57
One of the things that I noticed not too long after I started taking one of the medications that I take that's a hormone blocker. Related to obviously my hormone receptive breast cancer, who is I noticed one day as I was looking in the mirror with a lot of good natural sunlight in my car that I had developed a tremendous amount of peach fuzz on my cheeks and and chin. I didn't know that it was there. It was kind of shocking to me. I didn't really at the time know what was happening. And then I just reached out to a friend who's about the same age, no medication similarities, but she works in the dermatology space. And she I think basically was like yeah, you don't know that people begin to get peach fives when they start getting older in hormones start changing and obviously my hormones are a little different because of some of the medication that I take. So I asked her peer to peer friend to friend. You know what I do about this or I just let it go. And she was super kind to help me talk through and walk through the opportunity to do Dermaplaning on myself. Now, if you're a member of the Facebook group facebook.com/groups/this unmillennial life, there's a link always in the show notes and on my website, this unmillenniallife.com. If you're in that group, you may have seen a year or two ago that I posted initially about some disposable microplane, Derma planing tools that I use, I used those for a brief period of time, and they worked pretty well. But I recently discovered an even better self administered Dermaplaning tool by Gillette. It's called the Gillette Venus Dermaplaning tool, and you can get it on Amazon for about $15. It comes with one razor and two cartridges, I was able to use one cartridge for gosh, probably a year I would say and then have recently swapped over, it's possible that I should have swapped over to the new replacement a little bit sooner because I noticed as soon as I swapped over, I just it was it worked so much better. And this is super easy to use to dermaplane your face to get that peach fuzz off. So let's talk about the peach fuzz. I'll be honest with you, even though I've never had it, I do know that some people have it their whole lives. And I now notice it on women my age. And what I notice is that when you have a tremendous amount of peach fuzz, it not only in theory doesn't allow for the absorption of your serums and some of your moisturizers as well. Or at least that's my approach to this perception on on how I feel about it. But I also noticed that when people are using tinted skirt, sunscreen or, or foundation or their powder, it's tends to sit on the peach fuzz and just not have as smooth of a look. So I think in knowing that you kind of wonder like, Well, why are people not getting rid of it. And in doing a little bit of looking out online about the conversation, it appears that a lot of women are afraid to Derma plain and get rid of that peach because because they're afraid that it's going to grow back thicker and darker. And this makes total sense if you think about the fact that I'm assuming most of us as women who shave our legs, if you shave your legs, you know, we started off with peach fuzz on our legs and adolescents and then started shaving it and then obviously the hair changes over time. But everything that I've read on this particular topic seems to indicate and I know this is the case for me and I've been Dermaplaning my face now for a couple of years. It does not grow back thick and dark. There are things that can happen postmenopausal as estrogen goes down, and testosterone if it remains high, I believe there are some things that can happen with facial hair as a result, but that appears to be unrelated to Dermaplaning away this peach fuzz. So if you are like me, and are at some point where something has changed, or maybe you've had it your whole life, and you want to stop having this peach fuzz on your face again, I think I have found and my friend that I that I talked to about this, he was really the one that told me about the tools to do your own Dermaplaning we both agree that all of your facial self care regimen seems to work better when you get rid of all that peach fuzz. If you would like to start doing that, I'm going to place a link in the show notes. It is an Amazon affiliate link just briefly so you understand what that means. Sometimes if I post a link and it is to a product on Amazon, your price will stay the same. And I may get a very, very, very small commission as a result. So you do not have to buy off of that link. You can probably go to your local drugstore and purchase one there. But this is the product that I use the Gillette Venus Dermaplaning tool, it says on the box, that it's a facial razor and I think it works just fabulously. And the reason that I'm recommending this went over the less expensive. What I would say are more disposable ones is I feel like this just stayed sharper longer, and it's a little bit heavier weighted. So when you are Dermaplaning on your face, I just think it it works a little bit better and gets a little bit closer. You know the other thing if you aren't aware of Derma planing, even for people who do not have the peach fuzz that I'm talking about Dermaplaning is a tool to kind of get off slough off that like top layer of dead's sales to just overall give your face a little bit brighter and cleaner have a look. Okay, so that is our Beauty Segment odds and ends ending for this particular episode. And a little reminder, if you haven't gone back in the last couple of years and listened to some of the drugstore cleaner beauty episodes that I have released, those have been super popular and I have handouts for for both of those when which is one is an episode of skincare products and the other is on different cosmetics. So I'll go ahead and place a link in the show notes to both of those episodes if you want to go back and listen to those if you've enjoyed this episode or any episode of this unmillennial life let me ask you to do a couple of things. One, be sure to share this episode with a friend you can share it all across social media be sure that you are following this unillennial life on Instagram if you want to be sure that you always get new notifications on Instagram when there are new episodes. My more personal account Regan Jones rd tends to now only have the baking recipes that I'm doing for my new website this baking life. So two different places to find me either if you want dedicated content related to the podcast, Instagram this unmillennial life if you want to also see what I'm baking for my new website this baking life you can follow me at Regan Jones R D, sharing with a friend one of the best things that you can do to help this unmillennial life grow. And the other thing that you can do is to leave a five star review on whatever podcast app you are listening to this podcast on. I often mentioned Apple podcast because that is where the majority of people who listened this podcast listened to it but also know that Spotify which is a wonderful place to listen to this unmillennial life, I love their podcast player as well. You also can leave ratings there and I would appreciate if you would do that. If you want to get in touch with me send me an email Regan at this unmillennial life.com or leave a voicemail. You can do that by going to this unmillennial life.com. That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening, subscribing, downloading and of course sharing with a friend. Hope you have a great week.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reganjonesrdn.substack.com

Aging bodies are subjected to more and more oxidative damage, and yet our master antioxidant, glutathione, decreases as we age. Today’s guest details what we can do about it.

  THIS UNMILLENNIAL LIFE PODCAST SHOW NOTES: LINKS MENTIONED IN THE GLUTATHIONE EPISODE:

• Dr. Patel’s Book “The Glutathione Revolution”
• To purchase Dr. Patel’s patented glutathione delivery system, visit AuroWellness.com
• To learn more about Dr. Patel’s glutathione-based skin care, visit https://aurowellness.com/skincare/

COMMERCIAL LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Dry Farm Wines – If you sign up today using the link http://dryfarmwines.com/unmillennial, you’ll get an extra bottle in your first box!
• Wild Grain subscription – IF you sign up today HERE you’ll get $10 off the first box + FREE Croissants in every box!

EPISODE KEYWORDS

podcast, apps, umillennial, Gen X, aging parents, Gen X women, Gen X podcasts, glutathione, best glutathione supplements, immune system, benefits of glutathione

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

(transcript generated through AI; may contain spelling errors)

(Opening Commercial)
Today’s episode is brought to you by Dry Farm Wines. Dry farm wines sources wine to the highest standards of quality and purity while most wines sold today, are commercially produced and full of sugar, they can also include up to 70 plus FDA approved additives. Dry farm wines, however, sources real wine naturally grown from small family farms that use heritage winemaking practices because they care about what they consume. They lab-test everyone and only source wines that meet a strict set of criteria. Every bottle is organically and biodynamically grown lower in alcohol. No sugar, lower and sulfites dry farmed with no irrigation for minute with 100% native non GMO yeast free of additives and friendly to both keto and paleo diets. Dry farm wines is offering listeners of this unmillennial life an opportunity to receive an additional pinnae bottle so an extra bottle for a penny when they get their first shipment at dry farm wines.com/unmillennial that’s dry farm wines.com/unmillennial

If your skin doesn’t know whether to breakout or wrinkle if you’re caught between planning the third grade class party and researching retirement plans or if you want to work out but the idea of CrossFit makes your 40 Something knees a you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to This Unmillennial Life.

I’m your host Regan Jones and welcome to today’s show. So this is an episode that has been in the making for many, many months actually recorded it in the spring of 2022. Thinking that I would release it in early 2023. Things got shifted. And my plan as you know was to continue releasing episodes in the spring of 2023. And last week’s episode detailed how all of that got sidelined. So I am thrilled to be able to release this episode to you today because I think as you listen to today’s guest and this topic of glutathione, which may sound somewhat dry to you as a nutrition related topic, I think you’re going to hear though for those of us who are, you know, increasingly an aging population and are increasingly subjected to all kinds of environmental toxins, sun exposure, various assaults on our body, you’re going to hear about why glutathione as a powerful antioxidant is so important. Okay, so I’m not going to go any more into detail about glutathione itself, but I am going to tell you about today’s guest joining me in today’s episode is Dr. Nayan Patel. He is a sought after pharmacist health expert, and really a key thought leader in this industry. He has published a book that you’ll hear us talk about in the episode, the glutathione, revolution, fight disease, slow aging and increase energy. And it is a result of 11 years of clinical research on glutathione. He’s a highly sought after global authority on the critical role that glutathione and other any oxidants play in the body. And I am honored to have him on the show delightful gentlemen, really appreciate his time. And I’m so glad to finally get this episode out to you as the audience. And with that, I’ll say Dr. Patel, welcome to the show.

Happy to be here. Regan.

It’s great to have you for a particular topic that honestly I had not anticipated covering glutathione is a nutrient. I don’t know nutrients, maybe not the best word you can correct me when you went in just a minute. But it’s something that I’ve known about for a while because I have used it from a supplement standpoint. But when your team got in touch with me, and let me know about the work that you’re doing and educating people on the need for glutathione, I was really excited about it. Because this is a you know, it’s a scientific subject that we want to be able to break down and easy to understand terms for people. And I know that you are on a mission to do that and are able to do that. So you know if you will just kind of open it up for us. I’ve already told my audience a little bit about you. So open it up for us, and just kind of let people understand what glutathione is, you know how it functions in the body?

Absolutely. So glutathione its chemical, it’s a protein. It is the most abundant protein produced in human bodies. And the reason we’re talking about this today and not 100 years ago when it was first discovered, is because for the very first time, we have the ability to make a difference. And even though our body produces on a daily basis, the need for glutathione has far exceeded what a body can produce. And this has to do with all the modern day vices that we have that we cannot get rid of it. So, so in a nutshell, it’s a protein. But it is defined by the function it does. So even though it’s a protein molecule, the function often it can it is the master antioxidant, it can be a massive detoxifier. It’s an enzyme. It can. It can it has, it has different names based on the functions it does in our body. So different names because it does multiple different things. And you said a term there that I’ve heard before in relation to glutathione. I’d love for you to just expand on that a little bit. It’s the master antioxidant. Yes. So the one of the functions of glutathione is to reduce oxidative damage. Well, that’s oxidative stress it I mean, the simple term is, you’re exposed to sunlight every day, and the sun exposure increases our free radicals in your under your skin. And you can see that by your skin getting burned or singling discolored. And it’s a it’s a visual thing that you see every day that supercharged electron molecules in our body needs to be neutralized. And think about it that your body has over 3000 chemical reactions happening every day. And the byproducts of the reaction is also producing reactive oxygen species. And those molecules have to be neutralized by body. And we take things for granted because abide does so so efficiently. But just imagine if it doesn’t do that part. And so glutathione takes electron neutralizes the molecule and keeps the body clean and safe at all times. I think what Dr. Patel just said, For listeners that are paying attention, one of the things that he just mentioned, I think is really important to underscore is this notion of these, you know, 3000 plus reactions that are happening in the body. So just by virtue of being alive, we are, you know, having all of these reactions that are taking place, that can be oxidative, and that oxidative process can be damaging, it’s so funny, because I think sometimes we hear about different ways to reduce oxidative stress or to reduce stress in the body, but we can’t forget that just a part of being alive and the metabolism that goes along, just even in digesting your food, you know, it’s just going to it’s going to produce some of that. So that’s, that was one thing that I wanted to draw out so that people didn’t miss. So you know, when we hear all of that, I guess then sometimes in the the dietitian slash food community will often hear people say, you know, food first. And we can get what we need from foods. So unpack for us a little bit about glutathione in relation to your diet and dietary sources, and your body’s ability or inability to produce it because that I think, is the big key area, that people that may have heard about it as an antioxidant. Maybe they don’t know that full story. You absolutely right. And it’s I’m a pharmacist by trade, but I’m one of the farmers of the other side that doesn’t like medication. So if I can get every single thing from from foods and plant based diet, or whatever diet that you choose to have, I’m all for it. So to produce glutathione, you need three amino acids, which is glutamine, glycine, and cysteine. You need to enzymes and a catalyst like Selenium to produce glutathione. So from your diet, you can get all those amino acids from from your diet, for example, you can get cysteine, which is the most needed in our diet, which is which is kind of hard to get all the time. It comes from whey isolate a whey protein can give you cysteine is one of those molecules, combine that with glutamine and glycine and all of a sudden, you can make in your body can produce glutathione now the body has the ability to produce a lot of glutathione for us. But as I said earlier, as we age, ability sort of decreases as we age, but our needs in fact never decreases. And as we age our our needs are actually increasing.

And so there is a disconnect from what a body can produce from our from the regular diet to to what our body actually needs and it shows up in the aging process.

It can literally dampen the aging process to the point where you can still enjoy what you do at the age of 25, even though you’re 55 today. And that’s a goal I have for all my clients if possible. Yeah, that’s a that’s a good goal. And then those of us that are listening at the 45 plus range, who were thinking, I wish I wish I had started this earlier. The message still is though it’s not too late, right? It’s never too late. What would it tell you about the planting a tree? The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, or picks best is today? Yeah, that’s such a good analogy. I actually saw that analogy. I saw that saying this week. So I’ve seen it before. But you’re right. That’s such a good. That’s such a good analogy. Okay. So I think that’s a really compelling case for why supplementation is important. But I’m speaking here completely without enough knowledge to expand on myself, which is why I’m glad that I have you on my understanding is it’s not as easy as just going to, you know, the pharmacy shelf and popping a pill for glutathione. Is that correct? In terms of a delivery system, like we think of other supplements as being something you just pop the pill out of a bottle. But that’s not really the case with glutathione, is it? It’s not and it is really hard to understand, because it’s at a chemical structure, it’s a protein. Protein molecules are not easily digestible by humans, because what what a body does is when you consume proteins, you’ll break it down into various amino acids. That’s what we do, right? Everybody eats protein, the bottom would break it down to a various amino acids. So if we take a protein like glutathione, in a capsule forms, it doesn’t matter how you mask and you can mask into just a regular capsules, or there’s some technologies out there that does make into liposomal forms of glutathione, which is supposed to protect it from degradation. But all the technologies that’s out there, the body will break it down into various amino acids. And then the body has to take those amino acids and try to make glutathione. Again,
it’s so it doesn’t make sense for us to take a product, the buyer is going to break it down, and then he’s going to use the parts to make it again.

So the so the on the other side, on the medical side, I have been training a lot of physician that have been using Bluetooth and for intravenous therapy. And so that was another option that was available for all these years for the intravenous therapy of glutathione. By glutathione is a such a large molecule that once it gets on what’s it produced intracellularly inside your red blood cells, in basically unfolded cells outside the red blood cells, and they can can never go back in there. So that means if we take an IV or intravenous form of glutathione, it never enters your blood cells, it stays in your blood in the plant, the blood is plasma, which is water base and cell, which is the red blood cells. And it stays in the plasma only. And that was a shocker to the medical community for the first time because Wait a second, I’ve injected this strain to the bloodstream, but it’s not available to the body. And is no it’s not available to the body. And so we have a technology that we developed 13 years ago, that that we’ve been studying for the last 13 years. And we just basically figured all those things out as to how to stabilize fluid outside the human body, how to deliver to the human body and improve your red blood cells. Because the glutathione in the red blood cells is the only way to see the results that you’re going to experience by taking glutathione Okay, so tell us about this technology. Okay? So technology is it’s two parts. If the gluten molecule it smells it has a sulfur odor, because teen has a has a has a group on that one that smells like sulfur. So the first key was for us to protect the sulfur group or the Theil group is what they call them. So it doesn’t get oxidized. So that was that was my first patent. And the second patent was we took the protein molecule and sort of twisted it to to bring down the particle size. So it can it can it can go through your skin into your blood. So it’s a two part technology that we have. And so we use that technology to not just to stabilize the glutathione but also to deliver and if you’re working with the
Physician, you can literally measure your blood cells level within the first hour of applying this glutathione topically on your skin. Okay, so that’s really important because my question was going to be when you said, you know, you apply it to your skin and then it gets in your blood, I thought, well, isn’t the issue though, when you were giving it intravenously that the molecule still didn’t, the glutathione molecule still didn’t get into the red blood, what cell but you’re saying that you all have been able to verify that it did actually get into blood cells, red blood cells, that was a pattern that we received
upon topical applications of glutathione. Interesting, because the liposomal product, I’m be honest, that’s the one I’ve taken. So I’m a little disappointed to hear, like, that’s probably not helped me much.

You’re set, you’re that you’re saying as a delivery system is is not providing benefit. There was a study that in 2010, at Texas University, and they took kids and they were with with spectrum disorder, and they will, they will also include the thigh on. And of course, they measured the liposomal form of glutathione, because the kids at that time didn’t want to take shots.

And so they did a study, and they found out was 100% of the patients do not increase a red blood cells levels of glutathione.

Not even one had increased in there. And the conclusion was that the body breaks down into various amino acids. And amino acids will eventually increase the glutathione level in the body. But not the red blood cells were not been improved with the glutathione levels. So that was the conclusion of the study. But that was like in 2010. Okay, so there’s there’s no benefit. If the asking a question, you’re not stating one. But it’s not stating a fact there’s no benefit. When the glutathione is outside of the red blood cell, it has to be within the red blood cell where everything’s happening for there to be benefit. Is that what you’re saying? So the benefits, though the benefits are there both ends. But if not in the red blood cells, it only stays in the body for about 14 to 15 minutes.

So it doesn’t stay for too long. So even the intravenous push the doctors will give you at the doctor’s offices. It is out of his system in 14 to 15 minutes.

And so I would a crusade Why don’t you educate the physicians as well. And the physicians that have no idea that this this was true, and so they had to find out. And that study was done in 1991. And that was those 30 plus years ago, the study was done. And so but the thing is, we had no other technologies to at least give a chance to increase the glutathione levels correctly. And when we first discovered it, we didn’t right away release the product for sale, we studied for almost 11 to 12 years before we decided, hey, now we have enough information that we will be able to can we can able to tell the patients how to use a product and before able to release the product. I wrote a book on it just to make sure that everybody has this information that I have learned over the last 12 years. First, tell us a little bit about that book, the global revolution. That’s the name of the book. And it’s truly a revelation for me and my family. Because it’s it’s given me a chance to touch everybody’s life by improved not just by improved glutathione levels. But the what I see on the other end, the benefits of what happens when you raise glutathione levels. A book is all about stories that I have heard from my patients over the last five years, a lot of science behind it. And everything that’s in the book is fully referenced. So if as a physician who picks up the book, if this if they if they see a staple in the book, they can very well go to the back of the book and look a reference that where this thing is coming from. I do give a 14 day jumpstart programs. So if somebody is young in the early 30s, they can literally boost glutathione levels by just by diet with within for the first 14 days. If under the age of 40 Plus, unfortunately, diet may not cut it by itself and you might need supplementation.

But again, as I say it’s never too late. My my dad who’s who’s 86 years old today was my patient number one for almost eight years. And if you see him today, he is the envy of all his friend groups because because he still walks three to six miles per day he does gardening he does he does whatever he wants to do. He travels the world by himself. alone, and my password 20 years ago, so he’s single. But he’s he travels the world by himself. And he lives by himself to when he travels abroad. And this independence at this age gives me hope that I can take anybody, any person at any age, and help them feel better. That’s a very encouraging story and happy birthday to your father. That’s, that’s wonderful, wonderful to hear. And I know people listening to this podcast, likely have parents approaching that same age. And you know, of course, very, very encouraging to hear the book, is it available Amazon where you know, every bookstore, tell people how they can get the book. Yeah, the book is available, either print copy, they do have a Kindle or electronic copy. They do have an audio book as well. So they have audible as well. They can pick up at the free read bookstores, we have it on my website as well, if it’s not available, subsidized print copy goes out pretty fast. And so I usually bought it bought a big stock of it. So I can also make sure the consumer has that book available at the print copy. So I do have them on my website as well. But you can get it from Amazon for sure. That’s the common place to get all the books. I have two more questions for you. The first one being and I always like to cover this with any any new supplement or dietary recommendation anything is just to cover if there are any risks associated with I guess, both glutathione supplementation on a general leather level, but then also the delivery system that that you developed. So I mean, that’s a great question, because you want to make sure that in medicine, firstly, do no harm when it comes to glutathione. And in fact, all the price is in that in the product that I make the literal product that I make all the products all the ingredients has actually a grand status by FDA, which is generally regarded as safe when it’s consumed orally. Of course, FDA does not look at it when you’re given topically. So we cannot say that hey, just because the chemical itself has a great set of standards by FDA when consumed orally, that is going to be safe when you take it topically. So even though we don’t have any proven studies that that hey, this is completely safe. We know one thing for fact that the ingredients are absolutely safe to use on anybody. That’s the current FDA of course, but being said that we do notice that glutathione is when we are raising the levels in the human body at a at a at a at a generally good pace, we want to see is is the dose going to be effective. So the reason we took us 12 years recent product because as we were studying to find out what those How much do I actually give you can you just take any amount you want. And the answer is you can take any amount you want but then it will be cost prohibitive. So we went on a crusade to find out and say what’s the most cost effective dose I can give you to see the best benefit. And so we have we found out that four sprays of the glitter which which gives about 100 milligrams was was absolutely enough to to raise anybody’s glutathione levels. And at that pace, we are not see any any concerns at all. Now of course a lot of people are toxic within and if they are if they have a lot of toxicity that we may have to ask them to start at a lower dose a little bit just because if one is too toxic, then they can get this approach either reactions type which is the rash on the body. If that happens, I mean it just the body is is trying to detoxify pretty fast you just have to go start immediately but you know if you’re if your body if you think the body is not super clean, but start low and then slowly gradually go up. Okay wonderful, wonderful information and then the really just clarification about the product was going to be my my my next question.

How do people learn more about this product purchase the product unpack that just a little bit. So right now, the private is only available through my website which is oral wellness.com au R o wellness.com. We will take the same exact technology and we have infused into a skincare line as well because imagine I can give you glutathione in your skincare regimen. All of a sudden, your your your face is never covered and it has the most exposure due to pollution and sunlight, everything else. So we have a skincare website as well, which is our a skincare.com, which is the same technology to create those products too. But I’m more than the wellness side because that’s what I see my most of my items. And then we do have

hundreds of physicians, they do carry them in the office as well. Because we do work with, with the with integrative medicine medicine physicians, but if not, the listeners can go to the website. And just order from there directly. Wonderful. And I will of course, as I do with every episode, be sure to place a link in the show notes to both the orawellness.com site and the ARO skincare website that Dr. Patel mentioned. Dr. Patel, is there anything about glutathione? Or the product, the process anything that I haven’t asked you that you think people need to know, the most common questions that I get asked that the answer needs to be revealed? Is glutathione. First of all, is there an overdose, you asked me about overdose, can I overdose on glutathione, as well as do I take it on daily basis, and so on and so forth. So let me just elaborate more about those kinds of things is, first of all, if the glutathione is increased in your red blood cells, it is generally there for about six to 12 hours maximum. Okay, so take it in twice a day is what we recommend, because it’s in another body all the time. Now, there’s one thing that we do know off of is, is, if it’s so hard for your body to make glutathione, the body is going to have a capacity to recycle the glutathione that has already been oxidized. And so keep in mind, when we say that Vitamin C is an antioxidant, all Vitamin C is doing is is helping the oxidized glutathione revive again. And so and so the body has the ability to recycle glutathione. So whatever you take from external sources, keep in mind, the body will work if it gets oxidized glutathione the body will recycle itself again over time. So if you miss a day, a few days here and there not to sweat, because the body already has a reserve that it will recycle recycling itself. And so that is something that most of the physicians may not know either, is there any advantage benefit, I guess, and supplementation of additional vitamin C, along with a glutathione product. So the glittery product that we produce also has a vitamin C in there. Okay, I’m a pharmacist by trade. So whatever your body needs, if I can put it inside the product, I’m gonna give it to you. Yeah, I hate taking more pills and more medicines
I just don’t like it, it gets to be a lot. I can say that the older that we get and the more that we add to our regimen it can it can get to be a lot. Well, Dr. Patel, this has just been very enlightening. A lot of really good information that I did not know, and I’m sure our listeners did not as well, if you will just recap again for them so that they’ve heard it more than once, where they can learn more about, about the product about glutathione. Just any information that you can point them in the direction for them to learn more. Absolutely. So the best, the best place would be my website, or wellness.com au R o wellness.com. On there, I do have I do have a blogger, right. I tried to on a once a week basis. So please subscribe to that. And I’ll try to get as much information out as possible in a timely manner.

You can get the book, the book has a lot of great information. And it’s a good reference to have it too. And

it’s something that I strongly urge to give to your parents give to somebody who likes to read because gift of health, health is the biggest gift we can ever give to anybody. And I’ve said I have so many friends telling me last Christmas that first time I had tears in my eyes because I was spreading good health amongst my family by giving your book away. So that’s something that I I want to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to to give good health to people. No, I love that sentiment that just really makes a lot of sense to me touches my heart and resonates with me. So I love that the gift of good health. It has been a pleasure interviewing to you today. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. Appreciate that.

Okay, that wraps up my interview. I will as I said Be sure to place a link in the show notes to not only Dr. Patel’s book, the glutathione revolution which I have a copy of myself and let me tell you it covers so many topics that I think if you are interested in health and wellness and longevity. I think you will really find this book to be chock full of good information. I’ll place a link in the show notes to the book. But I will also place a link to both the website where you can purchase the gluteal glutathione delivery system. It’s a spray I have it I’ve been using it honestly i i tell you the honest truth here. I have been using it since the very day that I did this episode, I immediately ordered some actually I should say, the first bottle Dr. Patel was kind enough to give to me to let me try it. And I have been a consumer a purchaser of it as a customer since then. And that’s been many, many months ago. So I use it every day, just as he has directed, it does have a bit of a sulfur smell to it. I don’t know if you picked up on that in the episode. But he did acknowledge that the I believe it’s the glutamine
component of literal glutathione has a bit of a sulfur smell to it. So it’s not overwhelming and it’s not anything that’s exceptionally off putting but just know that that is a little bit of what you smell when you use the spray. So I will place a link in the show notes to the spray and then also place a link in the show notes to the skincare glutathione based products that Dr. Patel offers. Okay, I’m gonna take a quick commercial break. But then as always, I will be back for an odds and ends ending of the show.

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Hey there podcast listeners. Today’s episode is brought to you in part by wild grain. If you haven’t heard me talk about wild grain before it is a phenomenal company offering artisanal breads and pastas. While you certainly know by now, given the fact that I’ve launched a new website, this baking live.com I am most happy when I’m in the kitchen, baking things for my family and friends. But I don’t always have time to do that from scratch, even as a baking blogger. And that’s where wild grain comes in. Wild grain is a subscription box with bake from Frozen sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pasta. So they sent me a box. And I’ve got to tell you everything that we’ve tried out of it so far has been amazing. The breads are super yummy. And it’s not just bread, but as I said, they have pastas, and they have pastries, I’ve made their facades, I’ve made their sourdough bread, everything has been top notch and high quality. So if you want to try some really good delivered to your door ready to bake items, you’re gonna want to give wild grain a shot. And the good news for you as a listener of this unmillennial life podcast is that the first 50 people to sign up through the link that’s in my show notes get $10 off their first box plus free croissants in every box. And I’ve already tried these with my family. They are delicious. Okay, so again, just look in the show notes for wild grain subscription. And now let’s get on with the show.

Since we’re on the subject of books that are chock full of good information, and given some of the things that I have shared with you over the last year or so about my journey with that being diagnosed with breast cancer, my increasingly openness to talk to you about my Christian faith, I want to tell you about a book that I recently finished that I am highly, highly recommending to you specifically, if you are ever diagnosed with cancer, or any type of major illness that you may go through. If you know someone who is it is a wonderful read that very honestly, I don’t know when I was in active treatment that I was prepared to read because very honestly, especially with chemo, you learn about chemo, chemo brain and it’s very real, like the ability to just sit and focus and really kind of absorb some more difficult complex topics. I just did not find myself in a position to do that. But having that behind me in some ways, I mean, cancer never leaves you as a as a as a topic. Really. I don’t think it leaves you if you’re the family member of a cancer survivor. I am a daughter of a cancer survivor. And I know for my whole adult life, it’s been something that’s on my mind. And then now as a cancer survivor myself, it’s certainly something that I think about. So, you know, I say the treatment portion is behind me but it never really leaves you. But the book that I want to tell you about that I recently completed is by Andy McWhinney, who is the Pastor Emeritus at Irving Bible Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And the book is titled notes from the valley, a spiritual travelogue through cancer. It is an amazing read for people of faith. And even people outside the faith. They’re often very heavy weighted questions and concerns that come up about the battle through any type of serious disease. And this book, unlike anything else that I have listened to as a podcast or read this book really touches at the heart of what we know as Christians to be true about some of the struggles, frankly, that we experience on this earth. And I’ll briefly just read to you something that is an excerpt from the entry on Amazon, where I’ll place a link in the show notes, of course to the book, it says in the persona of a travel writer, sending notes back from the desert, Andy recounts his journey through stage four cancer, in which he discovered what King David did in his own Valley, that in suffering, God’s presence isn’t diminished. But magnified, it’s a beautiful read again, I just offer it up to you as we’re talking about different books, things that might be beneficial to read. definitely different than a nutrition focus book like Dr. Patel’s, but one that is a beautiful read nonetheless. Okay, that wraps up today’s episode, a few housekeeping things to mention to you. First and foremost, if I could let me invite you to tell a friend about this podcast. I say it all the time. One of the best ways that this podcast grows is by word of mouth, friends, friend, so if you know someone who would appreciate this podcast, just grab the link and send it to them or send them a text and let them know this unmillennial life is available wherever you get your podcasts. And it’s very easy to find it just search this unmillennial life. If you’re someone who’s been listening to the podcast for a while and you’ve enjoyed it, can I ask you to leave a review and whatever podcast app you’re listening on five star review would be great. I detail this in last week’s season seven opener that for many years, I never mentioned it to you guys. But the first year that this podcast launched, I was explosive growth, because of the fact that Apple podcasts featured it as new and noteworthy. I mean, I felt so fortunate and, and really appreciated the exposure. However, with that much viral exposure comes the opportunity for people to hear this podcast that frankly, it’s not a good fit for. And people who it’s not a good fit for, for some reason, often decide to be the people who rate a podcast and I know just based on the number of ratings that I have, compared to how many downloads this podcast gets. It is such a tiny, tiny fraction of the people who continue to come back week after week, month after month, year after year. But there is a portion of the people who’ve left podcast reviews that frankly, weren’t a great fit and left some pretty nasty reviews about the podcast and specifically about me, my favorite is the woman who are women or men. And I actually don’t know, who said that my accent didn’t work for them. It gave me a bad rating. So if my accent works for you, and you like this podcast, do me a favor. And please leave a five star review. It not only helps the podcast grow, but it helps the podcast apps know that this is a good podcast to recommend to others to listen to. And then on that same note, if you do you have things that you don’t like and you want to reach out to me or things that you do like you can always go to the website, this unmillennial life.com And leave a voicemail, you can email me Regan at this unmillennial live.com or you can reach out to me all across social media and provide me your feedback there. The only thing that I would ask because if my accent doesn’t work for you just know that even if you tell me that there’s not a whole lot I can do about it. As always, thanks so much for listening, subscribing, downloading and of course sharing with a friend of you have a great week.

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