What happens when shame takes root in a story?

And how does contempt become one of the ways we learn to survive it?

Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the complicated relationship between shame and contempt, and why understanding these dynamics matters so deeply for healing and human connection.

Shame can leave us feeling exposed, powerless, defective, or alone. And contempt often emerges as a strategy of protection: through self-criticism, defensiveness, withdrawal, rage, sarcasm, superiority, or humiliation.

You'll hear reflections on:

• why contempt often forms in response to pain and powerlessness

• what trauma responses like fight, flight, freeze, and fawn look like in moments of shame

• how to remain grounded in dignity and belovedness when faced with contempt

This conversation invites us into deeper curiosity, compassion, and discernment — especially in a cultural moment increasingly marked by outrage, dehumanization, and contempt.

If you'd like to explore these themes more deeply, we invite you to join Rachael Clinton Chen for the upcoming live training, The Art of Story Engagement, on June 13. Together, you'll explore more deeply how contempt shapes our stories — and how learning to recognize these dynamics in ourselves and others can open the door to greater wisdom, healing, and care. You can learn more at theallendercenter.org/events

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

*This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.