Dr. Inna Kanevsky, psychologist, professor, and debunker of pseudoscience psychology TikToks, discusses the misinformation videos that got her started on the path of debunking, why mental health labels can be helpful but can also lead us to incorrectly self-diagnose and take on labels that do not belong to us, and why it’s a problem when we make a diagnosis our identity. She comes in HOT about beloved psychology figures such as Bessel Van Der Kolk, Gabor Mate, and Dr. Amen, and how they have cult-like followings despite frequently peddling pseudoscience. Plus, we chat about the problems with polyvagal theory, why stories of resilience can be a helpful alternative to focusing on trauma, and why it is so dang painful to change our minds!

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Today is part two with Warren Kohl, former member and religious leader within the 2x2s (Meagan's secretive childhood group that technically has no name). Today we'll hear how Warren left behind his dreams of medical school to become a "worker" (a minister who stays in people's homes). He'll talk about the pressure to speak with some kind of authority, how he was scolded for genuinely trying to connect with the members, being told to stay out of a domestic violence situation within the group, how his mental health deteriorated, how he finally left, and his message to those still in the religion.

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Today's guest is Warren kohl, a fifth generation member and former “worker” (or minister) in the 2x2’s, the group that Meagan grew up in. Warren shares how devout he was to the group at a very young age, having your entire life controlled, and how utter heartbreak in high school led him to celibacy and a deeper commitment to the group.

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Psychologist, trauma bond expert, and author of Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds, Nadine Macaluso share about her relationship with ex-husband Jordan Belfort (aka The Wolf of Wall Street) and how it led her to become a therapist with a focus on trauma bonds. They also discuss "mind mapping", intermittent reinforcement, the difference between intensity and intimacy, the three phases of trauma bonds and how violence can play into them, why Nadine uses the term "pathological lover" instead of narcissist, how to tell if you're currently in a trauma bond, and green flags that are the sign of a healthy relationship.

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In part two with Zoe and Lilly, survivors of Midwest Academy, one of the abusive troubled teen programs in the same organization that was spotlighted in the docuseries The Program: Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping, we dig deeper into Lily’s experience. She’ll tell us how she was in solitary confinement for two months, and how her reaction was to rebel in any way she could. We’ll get into how they both left, and how no one believed them for years - in some cases, up until just last month - how this was and still is a multi-billion dollar industry, and where they’re both at in their healing journey.

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Survivors of the infamous WWASP schools, Zoe & Lillian, share about their experiences being forced to join Ivy Ridge, Midwest Academy, and Casa by the Sea; All schools featured in the current Netflix docudrama, The Program: Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping. Lola & Meagan dig into how these programs were marketed to parents, the dramatic ways Zoe & Lillian were brought to the facilities as teenagers, the levels inside the program that were impossible to climb, how they could only communicate with their eyes, and how they were kept from their families.

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In part two with former LuLaRoe seller, Roberta Blevins, they discuss everything about LuLaRoe's founder DeAnne Brady and her family, the mother figure role DeAnne provided in Roberta's life, dealing with toxic positivity, and a thorough list of MLM red flags to look out for. Plus, how Roberta finally realized that she was in a cult and how starting her own podcast helped with her recovery.

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In part one with former LuLaRoe seller and Life After MLM podcast host, Roberta Blevins, she'll share how she first got involved in MLMS, what LuLaRoe was like, what the deal was with the wet smelly leggings, and what made realize that she did not want to be a part of MLM life anymore. We'll discuss how MLMs make good people act badly, what "huns" and "megahuns" are, and where the line is between incompetence and knowingly engaging in harmful practices. 

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This week, Lola and Meagan's guests are... Lola and Meagan! They talk about the cult of seeing everything as a cult, discussing how things that might seem a little culty don’t necessarily inherently mean that a group IS a cult. They’ll discuss political polarization, online miscommunication, group dynamics that happen in ALL groups, and the difference between a dickhead and a cult leader--with a few tangents in between.

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Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at [email protected]

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In part two of this listener story with Operation Light Force survivor, Katelyn Hlavaty, Lola and Meagan unpack how the leader's bogus healing protocol, which involved digging into old trauma, eventually led to Satanic Ritual Abuse. Katelyn shares how isolation from her family and a period of spontaneous remission from her bout Crohn's disease deepened her faith in the group, leading her to become a public facing spokesperson telling thousands of people that she was healed while secretly throwing up backstage. They also get into cold reading, the danger of religious leaders preventing their followers from getting needed medical care, and how Katelyn finally got out and started over.

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