The CFTC reclassified perps as futures. Katherine and Jessi parse what the ruling actually permits and what it means for Hyperliquid. Plus: if your AI agent gets scammed, who pays?

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The CFTC approved a perpetual Bitcoin futures contract for KalshiEX, and crypto Twitter immediately got it wrong. Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos untangles what actually changed, why the switch from swap to futures classification matters for retail access, and what the ruling leaves wide open on leverage and decentralized exchanges.

Jessi Brooks and Katherine explore the fact that AI agents can now place orders, not just give advice. They revisit their paper "The Agents at the Gate" and make clear why Robinhood's move to let agents charge your Gold Card raises liability questions that existing consumer protection law was never built to answer.

In the strangest segment, they also dug into a New York lawsuit where an anonymous plaintiff is claiming legal ownership of nearly 40,000 dormant crypto wallets. Jessi explains why the lost-property theory will probably fail — and why even a partial win could force centralized exchanges into an impossible spot.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Timestamps

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Jeff Dorman on why Strategy's four stakeholder classes are all losing, and why Saylor should have sold $2B of Bitcoin at once instead of $2.5M.

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Strategy’s late-May Bitcoin sale has turned a long-running investor concern into a sharper question: how sustainable is the company’s capital structure if its Bitcoin accumulation strategy now comes with large cash obligations?

Jeff Dorman, chief investment officer at Arca, joins Laura Shin to discuss why the sale changed his view of the risks around Strategy. After months of pushing back on fears of forced selling, Dorman says the company’s preferred-share financing has altered the analysis.

He points to roughly $15 billion in preferred shares carrying 10% to 12% dividend rates, which he estimates could mean about $1.7 billion in annual cash obligations for a company without operating revenue.

Dorman also breaks down the stakeholder groups shaping Strategy’s choices, the tradeoffs each path may create, and the Polymarket dispute over whether Strategy sold Bitcoin in May.

Host:

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jeff Dorman - Chief Investment Officer at Arca - https://x.com/jdorman81

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Strategy sold BTC. Can its preferred dividend stack survive without Bitcoin growing at least 11.5% year? Plus, they cover Jamie Dimon calling Brian Armstrong “full of shit.”

---

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If you haven’t yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips, since the show will migrate there in a few weeks. Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and wherever you get your podcasts.

----

Strategy sold Bitcoin for the first time since 2022 — 32 BTC to cover preferred stock dividends. Ram, Austin, and Chris discuss whether that small sale signals a deeper structural tension between equity holders, preferred holders, and Bitcoin itself.

They also covered the news that Anthropic filed for an IPO at a valuation approaching $1 trillion. The hosts lay out the bull and bear cases  and ask whether retail investors can realistically get a 10x out of a company already priced like a finished product.

Unpacking a spicier moment, they also discussed the moment when JPMorgan’s Jamie Dimon called Coinbase’s Brian Armstrong “full of shit” on live TV over the Clarity Act. Ram says crypto's window of peak political power is closing fast, while Austin gives crypto lobbyists a great idea for how to turn the banks’ stablecoin yield crusade against them.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Austin Campbell — Founder, Zero Knowledge Consulting; Adjunct Professor, NYU Stern

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Chris Perkins⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management

Timestamps

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A co-founder of OpenZeppelin said he’s urging friends to exit blue chip DeFi. Isaac Patka and Mike Silagadze explain what he got right, what he got wrong, and what needs to change.

========================================================

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A co-founder of OpenZeppelin set off a firestorm on Crypto Twitter this week by declaring that he now considers all of DeFi unsafe, citing superhuman AI coding agents and the asymmetry between attackers and defenders. 

Isaac Patka, certifications lead at Security Alliance, and Mike Silagadze, CEO of Ether.Fi, join Laura Shin to push back on that framing — and to make the case that the real problem isn’t AI finding sophisticated zero-days, it’s that 90% of hacks are still embarrassing opsec failures. 

They cover the full threat taxonomy: opsec and parameter mistakes, contagion from bridge failures, AI-enabled social engineering, and the decentralization theater that leaves protocols unable to protect their own users. 

Mike makes a pointed argument for why every serious DeFi protocol needs a hard pause button and a blacklist mechanism, while Isaac explains the three-multisig architecture that should be the minimum standard. Plus, both lay out the practical question every user should ask before putting money into any protocol.

Host:

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠Isaac Patka (@isaacpatka) — Certifications Lead at Security Alliance & Co-founder of Shield3

⁠⁠⁠⁠Mike Silagadze (@MikeSilagadze) — CEO of Ether.Fi

Timestamps

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Steve Sosnick on the ratchet effect in equities, the AI bandwidth parallel, Kevin Warsh’s impossible first week, and why crypto is the unsexy trade right now.

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If you haven’t yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips, since the show will migrate there in a few weeks. Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and wherever you get your podcasts.

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Equities are near all-time highs, the Fed’s preferred inflation gauge just hit a multi-year peak, Iran ceasefire talks are producing a familiar ratchet effect in markets, and Bitcoin is quietly underperforming tech stocks on a nine-month volatility low. Steve Sosnick, chief strategist at Interactive Brokers, joins Steve Ehrlich to map what’s actually driving these unique market dynamics. They cover the two vulnerabilities that could change things, the uncomfortable parallel between today’s AI capex and the 1999 bandwidth buildout, what $120 billion in money market inflows says about where retail cash is actually sitting, the challenge Kevin Warsh faces walking into an already-skeptical FOMC, and why crypto is currently losing the competition for momentum-chasing money to AI stocks, upcoming IPOs, and even a memory chip ETF.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steve Ehrlich, Head of Research at SharpLink and Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview - https://x.com/Steven_Ehrlich

Guest:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steve Sosnick — Chief Strategist at Interactive Brokers

Timestamps

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Ethereum's midlife crisis hits the podcast as ex-Bankless and ConsenSys insiders unpack ETH's talent exodus, identity spiral, "Microsoft" future, EF shake-ups, and the Solana contender play-all with spicy takes on airdrops, real dev stats, and blockchain adoption drama.

Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, it's an Ethereum apostasy spectacular: we're joined by David Hoffman and Max Resnick, who hit the confessional booth to explain why they've left the church of Ethereum. 

We kick off with David's viral "ETH is money" post-mortem: why he finally sold, and whether ETH can escape its spot on the yield farm for good. Max jumps in with an OG technologist's view on EF's internal struggles, talent flight, and the move-slow, break-nothing philosophy now gripping Ethereum's core. Is the EF just ossifying—or is it devolving into the "Microsoft of crypto"?

From there, the hosts dissect the "second foundation" meme, why Twitter doomers might not matter for the ETH price, and whether Solana has stolen the next generation of devs. Max throws down on Solana's quantum future while the group takes barstool shots at metrics, narratives, and the never-ending "Ethereum is for boomers" debate.

Whether you're a ride-or-die Etherean or just here for the schadenfreude, let's get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹David Hoffman reveals why he sold all his ETH and stepped down from the "ETH is money"

pulpit

🔹Max Resnick on Ethereum's talent drain, EF's slow tech culture, and missing the Wall Street on-chain boat

🔹Why the Ethereum Foundation's leadership shuffle triggered so much existential dread

🔹The "Ethereum is Microsoft" thesis: ossification, enterprise comfort, and is that a bad thing?

🔹Are airdrops, stablecoin and NFT on-chain metrics just smoke and mirrors?

🔹Developer mindshare —did Solana peak? Has ETH truly lost the next-gen builders?

🔹Will a new "Number Go Up Foundation" for Ethereum change anything?

🔹Solana's post-quantum roadmap: why Max thinks ETH is over-complicating the problem

🔹What happens if Ethereum stops shipping upgrades —can it just coast Lindy-style?

🔹Is the future of crypto "strong" vs. "weak" crypto, and is ETH now firmly a boomer chain?

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

Guest

⭐️ David Hoffman, Co-Founder at Bankless

⭐️ Max Resnick, Lead Economist at Anza

“Why I Sold My ETH” by David Hoffman

https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2059371247163613489

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:12 Why David Sold ETH

05:26 ETH Momentum and Value Capture

07:38 Ethereum Foundation Shakeups

10:18 Max on Tech and Identity Crisis

15:57 Talent Drain and New Blood

19:29 Strong vs Weak Crypto Debate

25:28 Ethereum as Microsoft

30:02 Second Foundation Idea

35:43 Microsoft Era Ethereum

38:20 EF Money Runs Out

42:02 Utility Asset Narrative

46:07 Etherealize Enterprise Push

48:04 Bitcoin Has Saylor

53:32 Ethereum Narrative Whiplash

55:51 Solana As The Yang

58:15 Post Quantum Solana Roadmap

Disclosures

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Illia Polosukhin, founder of NEAR and co-author of 'Attention Is All You Need,' on why confidentiality will let crypto become daily commerce — plus, some Near lore.

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Before co-founding NEAR Protocol, Illia Polosukhin was on the eight-person Google Brain team that wrote the transformer paper — the architecture behind every large language model running today.

He never mentioned it. When Kain Warwick found out two weeks ago, via a crypto AI chatbot, his reaction was: you have to be kidding me.

That backstory sets the tone for a conversation that moves from how transformers actually came together, to why confidentiality is what unlocks on-chain commerce for real businesses, and what NEAR is doing to keep criminals off its network without becoming a surveillance layer.

The hosts also get into the Ethereum Foundation's identity crisis, why Illia thinks decentralization is a tool and not a goal, and what the economy looks like when AI handles execution and blockchain handles coordination.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Security Expert

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Luca Netz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, CEO of Pudgy Penguins

Guest:

Timestamps

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Banks are about to lose two of their biggest advantages: custody and payments. A new White House EO opening Fed master accounts to fintechs could be the catalyst.

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A White House executive order is pushing the Fed to open its master account system to fintechs and crypto firms, and the implications are bigger than most people realize.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le trace what it would mean to plug crypto directly into the core plumbing of the US dollar system, why traditional banks should be furious, and where the guardrails are missing.

They also dig into the NYT’s scathing CFTC piece and whether the snark undermines the serious allegations. Plus the SEC's delayed innovation exemption, Commissioner Hester Peirce's departure, and the White House AI EO that collapsed in eighteen hours. Jessi maps the four White House factions fighting over AI governance, and argues crypto's "don't trust, verify" model is exactly the accountability layer AI needs.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TuongVy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Veda

Timestamps

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Vitalik finally said ETH the asset matters. Zak Cole’s reaction: ‘Should have said that five years ago.’ What broken cryptoeconomics mean for Ethereum’s future.

========================================================

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========================================================

The Ethereum Foundation has lost a wave of senior people in the span of a few months. A new co-executive director nobody has ever met is cutting budgets and releasing documents with a certain aesthetic.

Vitalik published a post saying ETH the asset is the most high-value product of the blockchain. And David Hoffman sold his last ETH.

Zak Cole, president of the Ethereum Community Foundation, and Greg Markou, co-founder of Sprinter and ChainSafe, join Laura Shin to sort through what’s a bear market tantrum, what’s a structural failure, and what would actually need to change for Ethereum to stop ceding ground to its competitors.

The conversation covers the CROPS mandate, the rumored loyalty pledge, broken cryptoeconomics, and what Zak says the EF still refuses to admit.

Host:

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠Zak Cole - Managing Partner, Number Group; President, Ethereum Community Foundation

⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg Markou - Co-founder and CEO, Sprinter; Co-founder, ChainSafe

Timestamps

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Citadel and SIFMA lobbied to slow tokenized equity rules. Arjun Sethi calls it 'corporate plumbing.' Chris Perkins calls it a bond future moment.

---

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Heads up!

If you haven’t yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips, since the show will migrate there in a few weeks. Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and wherever you get your podcasts.

----

Kraken has spent $2.75 billion on acquisitions in the past year, and co-CEO Arjun Sethi says the point is not a bigger exchange. The goal is a 24/7 global operating system for capital markets: spot, derivatives, payments, tokenized equities, and custody under one regulatory stack.

Sethi makes the case for each move, from REAP's tripling revenue in emerging markets to Bitnomial's CFTC trifecta, and says what will actually drive Kraken's next three years is not trading volume.

The conversation then turns to the SEC's paused innovation exemption for tokenized equities, why Citadel and SIFMA showed up to lobby against it, and whether direct listings on crypto rails could eventually replace Wall Street's IPO machine.

The episode closes on a question nobody saw coming: what Pope Leo's first encyclical on AI and finance has to do with the Bitcoin white paper.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Austin Campbell (@austincampbell) — Founder, Zero Knowledge Consulting; Adjunct Professor, NYU Stern

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Chris Perkins⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management

Guest:

Arjun Sethi - Co-CEO of Kraken / Payward and Chairman of Tribe Capital

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