Victoria Beckham has switched industries three times so far during her career: trading in the Spice Girls for a solo career, then launching her own fashion label. Now, she’s in the midst of her third big pivot: a foray into beauty, via a sustainable luxury brand. And she brought in Sarah Creal, a lifelong product developer who’s worked with everyone from Bobbi Brown to Estée Lauder.

In this episode, Victoria and Sarah talk about:

PS: 9 to 5ish listeners can get 10% off Victoria Beckham Beauty products by using code Skimm10 at checkout. Some restrictions apply.

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