with @MinarikLaw @EMinSF @rhhackett

Imagine waking up one day to find your bank account frozen. No warning. No explanation. No recourse.

This is not a thought experiment. It’s a real situation. And it’s happened not just to crypto companies and their founders, but to ordinary people who are just trying to live their lives. That includes our guest today, who learned firsthand what it means to be “debanked.”

In this episode, we talk about the unseen algorithms that monitor people’s accounts, the ramifications of the Bank Secrecy Act, and how crypto and decentralized finance may offer a much-needed check — and safety net — against the opaque systems of traditional finance.

Joining us are:

• Uniswap Labs’s Chief Legal Officer Katherine Minarik, who shares her personal story of being debanked and what it taught her.
• a16z crypto Finance and Operations Partner Em Westerhold, who helps founders navigate these issues, and who has tracked dozens of instances of debanking across our own portfolio.

A big thank you to Katherine for trusting us to share her story, which you can read a first-hand account of in an op-ed she contributed to a16zcrypto.com earlier this year. Find that and more below.

Timestamps:

(0:00) Introduction

(2:03) The Problem of Debanking

(5:58) Debanking: A Personal Story

(7:33) Understanding the Bank Secrecy Act

(11:53) The Information Vacuum

(16:55) The Impact on Crypto Companies

(20:07) Addressing Skeptics

(22:07) Banks: Good vs. Bad

(27:35) The Scariest Moment

(36:17) "Operation Chokepoint 2.0"

(38:08) History of the Bank Secrecy Act

(44:04) Security Theater

(45:31) What Would You Change?

(48:45) The Impact of Financial Consolidation

(49:30) Crypto as Banking Solution

(53:02) Is Debanking Still Happening?

(58:35) Unresolved Mysteries

(1:01:47) One More Debanking Story

(1:08:07) Conspiracy or Coincidence?

(1:09:39) It Shouldn't Be This Hard

(1:11:18) Out From Under the SEC's Cloud

(1:14:23) The Urgent Need for Legislation

(1:17:26) Possible Tech Futures

(1:19:33) Advice for Founders

(1:22:04) Final Thoughts

Resources:

• Anyone can get debanked. DeFi is a critical safety net by Katherine Minarik (a16z crypto, February 2025)
  • This op-ed is part of a bigger package of crypto policy views found here: “U.S. as the crypto capital: What it would take”
• Debanking: What you need to know (a16z crypto, December 2024)
• End the era of mass financial surveillance by Grant Rabenn (a16z crypto, February 2025)

As a reminder, none of the content should be taken as investment, business, legal, or tax advice; please see a16z.com/disclosures for more important information, including a link to a list of our investments.