The Ezra Klein Show

We Know So Little About What Makes Humanity Prosper



Why do some countries produce far more science Nobel laureates than others? Why did Silicon Valley happen in California rather than Japan or Boston? Why did the Industrial Revolution happen when it did and where it did?

These are just some of the questions that have inspired the formation of a new intellectual movement called “progress studies.” The basic idea is this: For hundreds of thousands of years, human history played out without any rapid, marked advance in material living standards. And then, suddenly, in just the past few hundred years, everything changed: Humanity achieved a truly mind-boggling amount of progress in the evolutionary blink of an eye. In the early 21st century, we are all living in the world that progress bequeathed. And yet we understand shockingly little about what drives that progress in the first place.

That’s important because, at least according to some metrics, progress seems to be slowing down. We spend far more on scientific research but that research results in fewer breakthrough discoveries. Key economic indicators such as productivity growth have slowed. Many have argued that the technologies we’ve invented in recent decades, while highly impressive, aren’t as transformative as the technologies from the last century. All of which means that the questions animating progress studies aren’t mere academic exercises; they are central to understanding how we can bring about a better future for all.

Patrick Collison is the co-founder and chief executive of the multibillion-dollar payments company Stripe. But for years now, Collison has also been developing and advocating a worldview that has become the intellectual backbone of this new discipline. In 2019, Collison, alongside the economist Tyler Cowen,  called for “a new science of progress.” And since then, an intellectual ecosystem has sprung up around it, full of its own magazines and thinkers and syllabuses and podcasts. And Collison himself is putting its theories into practice through organizations  (like Fast Grants and Arc Institute) that he’s founded and funded.

This conversation is an attempt to better understand Collison’s worldview, and more broadly the worldview of progress studies. The ideas that animate progress studies are worth taking seriously on their own terms. But they are also important because they are becoming increasingly influential among a wealthy elite with the power and resources to shape all of our futures.

Mentioned:

Science Is Getting Less Bang for Its Buck” by Patrick Collison and Michael Nielsen

A Culture of Growth by Joel Mokyr

"Kludgeocracy in America" by Steve Teles 

Book Recommendations:

Empire and Revolution by Richard Bourke

Scene of Change by Warren Weaver

A Widening Sphere by Philip N. Alexander

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin and Rogé Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Original music by Isaac Jones. Mixing by Sonia Herrero, Isaac Jones and Carole Sabouraud. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

...more

View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

The Ezra Klein ShowBy New York Times Opinion

  • 4.5
  • 4.5
  • 4.5
  • 4.5
  • 4.5

4.5

10,318 ratings


More shows like The Ezra Klein Show

View all
On the Media by WNYC Studios

On the Media

8,943 Listeners

The Book Review by The New York Times

The Book Review

3,768 Listeners

Popcast by The New York Times

Popcast

1,406 Listeners

This American Life by This American Life

This American Life

89,902 Listeners

Fresh Air by NPR

Fresh Air

37,672 Listeners

The Political Scene | The New Yorker by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

3,700 Listeners

The New Yorker Radio Hour by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

The New Yorker Radio Hour

6,342 Listeners

Modern Love by The New York Times

Modern Love

8,719 Listeners

Inside The Times by The New York Times

Inside The Times

113 Listeners

The Gray Area with Sean Illing by Vox

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

10,545 Listeners

The Run-Up by The New York Times

The Run-Up

2,481 Listeners

Pod Save America by Crooked Media

Pod Save America

85,222 Listeners

The Daily by The New York Times

The Daily

110,045 Listeners

Today, Explained by Vox

Today, Explained

9,835 Listeners

Change Agent by The New York Times

Change Agent

1,425 Listeners

Caliphate by The New York Times

Caliphate

12,646 Listeners

Charm City by The New York Times

Charm City

292 Listeners

Matter of Opinion by New York Times Opinion

Matter of Opinion

7,342 Listeners

1619 by The New York Times

1619

31,512 Listeners

The Latest by The New York Times

The Latest

470 Listeners

The Candidates by The New York Times

The Candidates

52 Listeners

Jungle Prince by The New York Times

Jungle Prince

2,214 Listeners

The Choice by New York Times Opinion

The Choice

380 Listeners

Rabbit Hole by The New York Times

Rabbit Hole

6,636 Listeners

Hard Fork by The New York Times

Hard Fork

5,212 Listeners

Day X by The New York Times

Day X

1,483 Listeners

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart by Comedy Central

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

8,063 Listeners

The Interview by The New York Times

The Interview

1,258 Listeners

The Run-Up (2016) by The New York Times

The Run-Up (2016)

7 Listeners

On with Kara Swisher by Vox Media

On with Kara Swisher

2,680 Listeners

The Argument by New York Times Opinion

The Argument

10 Listeners

The Opinions by The New York Times Opinion

The Opinions

152 Listeners