Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.

This week we're talking about something almost every leader is wrestling with right now: why transformation is so hard even when they know they need to change. My guests are Phil Lebrun and Jana Werner, co-authors of The Octopus Organization, a book that challenges the traditional way companies are structured and led.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…leaders navigating transformation and growth who want to build organizations that can meet the level of change.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…most organizations approach change as a transformation project with a clear beginning and end. Jana and Phil challenge that idea, arguing that the current environment requires organizations to continuously adapt, learn, and respond rather than rely on top-down change initiatives. In this conversation, they explain why so many transformation efforts fail, how bureaucracy and rigid structures slow organizations down, and why behavior change matters more than new technology or organizational charts.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• Transformation is often overused when continuous adaptation is what organizations really need.

• Behavior change matters more than organizational charts or new technology.

• Bureaucracy grows when organizations prioritize control over learning.

• Curiosity and psychological safety fuel innovation and adaptability.

• Leaders create lasting change by empowering the people closest to the work.

WHAT I LOVE MOST… Phil and Jana challenge the idea that transformation is something you complete. The organizations that thrive are the ones that treat learning and adaptation as part of everyday work.

Running Time: 29:13

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The Octopus Organization

Phil and Jana's Book:

The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm thrilled to welcome you back to a series I did with my dear friend, Roger Martin. He's the author of the amazing book, Playing to Win. In this episode, we're talking about the four key characteristics of strategic thinking.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…anyone who wants to strengthen their strategic thinking and make better decisions in complex, uncertain environments.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…many people think strategy is about making plans, setting goals, or controlling outcomes. Roger argues that strategic thinking starts by accepting the opposite: the most important variables are often the ones you don't control. Customers, competitors, and markets will ultimately do what they want to do. The strategist's job is to influence those outcomes by thoughtfully configuring everything within their control. In this conversation, Roger breaks down the four key characteristics of strategic thinkers. Together, he and Tiffani explore how these skills can be developed and why strategic thinking is less about innate talent and more about deliberate practice.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Strategic thinkers focus on influencing outcomes they cannot directly control.
• The best decisions come from combining quantitative and qualitative information.
• Strong strategies emerge when multiple variables are considered simultaneously.
• Strategic thinking is a learnable skill that improves through practice and training.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…Roger's reminder that strategic thinking is not something you're born with. Too often, people assume strategy is reserved for a select few with a natural gift for seeing around corners. Instead, Roger reframes strategic thinking as a set of skills that anyone can develop.

Running Time: 31:02

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.

This week, I'm delighted to speak with Denise Persson. She is the Chief Marketing Officer at Snowflake and co-author of Make It Snow: From Zero to Billions. Over the last 25 years, Denise has helped build and scale some of the most recognizable enterprise technology companies, including Snowflake, Apigee, and Genesis, guiding organizations through hyper-growth, IPOs, acquisitions, and major market shifts. What I really love about Denise's perspective is that she understands growth isn't just about demand generation or pipeline, it's about building the operational alignment, customer trust, and internal culture that allow companies to scale sustainably. So today we're going to dive right into these topics.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…marketing leaders and growth-focused executives helping teams stay aligned while navigating rapid change and ambitious growth goals.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…many companies believe growth comes from moving faster, launching more campaigns, or constantly evolving their message. Denise argues the opposite. Drawing from her experience helping scale Snowflake into one of the most successful technology companies in the world, Denise explains why some of the biggest growth opportunities come from creating clarity and not complexity. Denise and Tiffani discuss what happens when organizations grow faster than their processes, why customer advocacy is more powerful than any marketing campaign, and how leaders can balance innovation with consistency.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Category creation succeeds when customers immediately understand the value.

• Consistency creates trust for customers, employees, and partners.

• Hypergrowth often exposes gaps in leadership, hiring, and alignment.

• Strong data foundations are essential for personalization and AI success.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…Denise's perspective that growth isn't always about doing more. It's often about creating more clarity. In a business environment that constantly encourages organizations to move faster, add more, and chase the next opportunity, her reminder that consistency builds trust feels especially important.

Running Time: 35:00

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.

Today's conversation is about reinvention, resilience, and what it really means to lead when the pressure is at its highest. My guest is George Barrios, former co-president of WWE and the architect behind some of the biggest media and sports deals in history and author of the new book, Sometimes Wrong, But Never in Doubt.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…leaders, ambitious professionals, entrepreneurs, and anyone navigating career pivots, high-pressure decisions, or uncertainty while trying to grow with confidence and conviction.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…success isn't built on having all the answers but having the conviction to move forward before certainty arrives. George Barrios is a master at this: from helping transform WWE into a global media powerhouse to navigating a very public firing and reinvention, George explains why resilience, continuous learning, and a willingness to take calculated risks are what truly shape long-term success. Throughout the conversation, George and Tiffani explore the difference between confidence and arrogance, why leaders must stay in constant learning mode, and how reading, writing, and developing a strong point of view can separate great leaders from passive participants.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Conviction comes from preparation and doing the work.

• Confidence and ego can look similar, but they are not the same.

• Reading and writing are essential leadership habits.

• Big opportunities often require moving before certainty exists.

• Failure is often part of the path toward meaningful success.

• Leaders grow faster when they actively develop their own point of view.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…George's perspective that confidence isn't something you're born with but something you build through curiosity, preparation, and action. His insight that "being passive creates self-doubt" feels especially important right now in a world where so many people are waiting for permission, certainty, or someone else to guide them forward.

Running Time: 26:00

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George's Book: Sometimes Wrong but Never in Doubt

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm thrilled to welcome you back to a series I did with my dear friend, Roger Martin. He's the author of the amazing book, Playing to Win. In this episode, we're rethinking Warren Buffett's "moat" metaphor for competitive advantage.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…leaders, entrepreneurs, strategists, and innovators who want to build a sustainable competitive advantage instead of competing in a race to the bottom.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…most companies think about competitive advantage as something static, or what Warren Buffett famously coined the "moat" that protects the business from competitors. But Roger argues that this metaphor falls short in this day and age and introduces a more dynamic way to think about strategy: moving through "rooms" ahead of competitors. Roger explores why the best companies stay curious, how customer observation leads to innovation, why benchmarking can actually hurt differentiation, and how asking different questions is often the foundation of breakthrough growth.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Competitive advantage must evolve constantly, it can't stay static.

• Customer observation often reveals opportunities data alone misses.

• Benchmarking competitors too closely can limit innovation.

• Sustainable growth comes from continuously moving to the "next room."

WHAT I LOVE MOST…Roger's perspective that competitive advantage is about continually evolving faster than your competitors. His "rooms" metaphor is such a powerful way to visualize innovation, customer learning, and staying ahead by asking smarter questions over time.

Running Time: 30:44

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm thrilled to welcome you back to a series I did with my dear friend, Roger Martin. He's the author of the amazing book, Playing to Win. In this episode, we discuss how your current actions impact your strategy.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…leaders, executives, entrepreneurs, and teams trying to improve results without getting stuck chasing the "perfect" strategy.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…whether you claim it or not, you already have a strategy. It's reflected in the choices you're making every day. In this episode, Roger and Tiffani unpack one of the biggest misconceptions in business: the belief that strategy is something you create from scratch during a planning session. Roger explains that every company already has a strategy because every organization is making choices about investments, hiring, marketing, products, customers, and priorities. The real question is whether those choices are producing the results you want.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• Your current results are the outcome of the strategic choices you've already made.
• Strategy fails when leaders expect immediate results from long-term decisions.
• Chasing the "perfect strategy" often delays meaningful progress.
• Betterment comes from continuously improving the biggest problems first.
• Writing down assumptions helps leaders evaluate whether a strategy is truly working over time.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…Roger's emphasis on "betterment" over perfection. Instead of trying to engineer one flawless strategy that solves everything forever, he encourages leaders to continuously improve the choices creating the biggest pain points.

Running Time: 27:38

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.

I'm thrilled to welcome Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, author, decision strategist, and creator of The Area Method. Her new book, The Human Edge, really challenges a core assumption we're all making right now that more technology automatically leads to better outcomes. What I love about her work is that it's not anti-AI, it's pro-human. She gives us a framework to think more clearly, challenge what we're seeing, and ultimately make decisions with more confidence and intention. Because at the end of the day, the question isn't whether we'll use AI, it is whether we will lead it or it will lead us.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…anyone using AI in their work and wondering how to make better decisions without losing their human edge.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…AI can make you faster but it doesn't automatically make you better. Cheryl breaks down why decision-making, not technology, is the true competitive advantage. While AI can accelerate research, generate ideas, and even mirror your voice, it lacks context, judgment, and an understanding of what truly matters to you. Cheryl introduces the concept of "strategic stops" which are intentional moments to reflect, question assumptions, and ensure you're solving the right problem in the first place.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• AI is only as good as the context you give it. Without that critical piece, you risk getting answers that sound right but aren't useful.

• Strategic pauses ("friction") improve decisions by helping you question assumptions and refine your thinking.

• AI can reinforce bias or limit perspective if you don't actively challenge its outputs.

• The most important decisions still require human judgment especially when stakes are high and outcomes are uncertain.

• The future belongs to strong decision-makers, not just companies with the best AI tools.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…Cheryl's perspective that AI isn't replacing thinking but is actually demanding better thinking. The idea that we're all "chief deciders" in our own lives is a powerful reminder: no matter how advanced the technology gets, the responsibility to think critically is still ours.

Running Time: 25:56

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Cheryl's Book: The Human Edge: Smarter Decisions in the Age of AI

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm thrilled to welcome you back to a series I did with my dear friend, Roger Martin. He's the author of the amazing book, Playing to Win. In this episode, we discuss the concept of what would have to be true for something to be a good idea.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…anyone frustrated by endless debates who wants a smarter way to make strategic decisions.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…most teams get stuck arguing about what's true when the better question is what would have to be true. In this conversation, Roger reframes one of the most common breakdowns in strategy: teams debating data, context, and "facts" without ever moving forward. Instead of trying to prove what's true today, he introduces a more powerful approach, working backward from a future outcome and asking what conditions must exist for it to succeed.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• "What would have to be true" shifts teams from arguing about data to aligning on logic.

• Strong strategies often make something true that isn't true yet.

• Breaking goals into assumptions exposes whether a plan is realistic or wishful thinking.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…the idea that strategy isn't about proving you're right, it's about testing whether your thinking holds up. When you shift from "this is true" to "what would have to be true," the conversation changes completely. It removes ego, surfaces assumptions, and forces clarity.

Running Time: 27:35

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm thrilled to welcome you back to a series I did with my dear friend, Roger Martin. He's the author of the amazing book, Playing to Win. In this episode, we discuss how being too busy sabotages your strategy.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…leaders and high-performers who feel constantly busy (or burned out) and want a more strategic way to manage their time and energy.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…being busy isn't a badge of honor. It's often a signal that your personal strategy isn't working. In this episode, Roger reframes busyness as a strategic failure, not a productivity win. If you're constantly overwhelmed, it likely means you haven't clearly defined where to focus your time, how to create the most value, and what to stop doing.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• Constant busyness is often a sign of a weak or unclear personal strategy.

• You have fixed capacity so where you spend your time matters more than how much you work.

• Strategy is as much about what you don't do as what you do.

• Subtracting low-value work is the fastest way to create more impact.

• Investing time upfront (in people, systems, and planning) pays off long-term.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…the emphasis on subtraction over addition.So many people think the path to more impact is doing more but Roger shows that the real leverage comes from removing what doesn't matter and doubling down on what does.

Running Time: 25:36

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Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.

I'm thrilled to welcome Dr. Vivienne Ming to the show. She's a theoretical neuroscientist, AI expert, and what she calls a "professional mad scientist for the public good." She's also fabulous in person and one of my go-tos whenever I have a question about these topics because her work challenges the idea that we should compete with machines and instead pushes us to become more human, not less.

THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…anyone trying to understand how to stay relevant in an AI-driven world and how to use technology to become more human, not less.

TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…we've spent the last decade building AI that can operate without us, but that may be the wrong goal entirely. Vivienne challenges the dominant narrative around artificial intelligence, arguing that the real opportunity isn't automation or efficiency, it's hybrid intelligence. The most powerful outcomes happen when humans and machines work together, not when one replaces the other.

KEY TAKEAWAYS…

• AI alone is powerful, but human + AI ("hybrid intelligence") is the most effective combination for solving complex problems.

• The real differentiator in an AI world is your ability to explore unknown, messy, "ill-posed" problems.

• Using AI to challenge your thinking—not replace it—leads to better outcomes and deeper insights.

WHAT I LOVE MOST…the idea that AI shouldn't make life easier, it should make your thinking better. The people who win in this new world aren't the ones who automate everything… they're the ones who stay deeply engaged, ask better questions, and use AI as a thought partner.

Running Time: 37:22

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Vivienne's Book: Robot-Proof: When Machines Have all the Answers, Build Better People