Where Do Gays Retire Podcast

🎙 Retiring in Akrata, Greece: 60% Cheaper Than Orlando

Host Mark Goldstein talks with Jeffrey Davidson and Walter Zak, a married couple who left Orlando, Florida, after more than thirty years and now live in a hillside village above Akrata on the Gulf of Corinth.

Wally spent more than thirty years in hotel real estate development and finance, finishing with the opening of a one-billion-dollar resort in Orlando. Jeff spent twenty years in resort marketing and creative, and before that, regional management for Blockbuster Video. They met at Disney's Pleasure Island, built a wide circle of friends over three decades in Central Florida, and had never once set foot in Greece until a cruise for their thirtieth anniversary in 2024. Roughly a year later, they bought a house there, largely sight unseen. At the time of this conversation, they had been in Greece about five months.

A note on figures: all costs below reflect Jeff and Wally's experience at the time of recording. Rates, prices, and visa thresholds change, so treat these as a snapshot, not a current quote.

🗺 What and Where Is Akrata

Akrata is a beach town in Achaia, in the northern Peloponnese, on the Gulf of Corinth, roughly midway between Athens and Patras. It is popular with Greeks, who come out from the big cities to their summer houses, but draws very little international tourism. Jeff and Wally live above the town in Ano Platanos, a small stone village with its own church, a couple of restaurants, and olive groves running through it. Their description: the village from My Big Fat Greek Wedding, church bells and all.

The location was a deliberate choice. They wanted to feel remote without being cut off. The town sits on the rail line, and the major highway between Patras, Corinth, and Athens, and an electric suburban rail line is being extended toward a station at the bottom of their mountain. Wally also had high praise for the Greek highway system, cleaner and better maintained than most of what he had driven in the United States, with a stretch along the water that reminded them of the Pacific Coast Highway.

💛 Why They Left Florida

Wally had just finished the largest project of his career and was asking what the next phase of life looked like. Jeff was closer to retirement. As they started mapping a five- and ten-year plan, the golden visa entered the picture, bringing a question about timing: how long would that window stay open? They decided they were at a good age, positioned well, and didn't need to prove anything else.

The 2024 cruise was the turning point. What struck them was less the scenery than the people. After decades in a city built on hospitality performed for visitors, they found the Greek welcome unguarded and honest. They fell hard for Athens, a city Wally called unpolished but carrying four thousand years of energy. Coming from Orlando, where you are essentially living in the land of make-believe, the chance to walk among three-thousand-year-old ruins was its own argument. When Wally floated the idea of retiring there, Jeff said it would happen as soon as he sold his Corvette. It sold within a week.

🏡 Buying a House Sight Unseen

They made an offer on their home before ever seeing it in person. Jeff visited once before closing, but the decision was already made.

What made that possible was structure. They kept their lawyer and real estate agent separate, hired an Athens firm that respected the agent they had chosen, and had the agent conduct multiple video walkthroughs, talking them through problems rather than hiding them. The house turned out to be exactly what he had shown them. Something less rational was at work, too. The home had belonged to a family whose mother was an artist, like Wally's mother, and they say it felt like it was calling them.

💰 Costs and Housing

Their headline figure gives this episode its title. Adding everything up, they estimate they are spending about forty percent of what they spent in Orlando, which is to say roughly sixty percent cheaper. That excludes healthcare and travel, and healthcare turns out to be minimal anyway.

The house cost 400,000 euros, roughly 461,000 US dollars. That bought about an acre with eight olive trees and fruit trees, and a panoramic view across the Gulf of Corinth toward Delphi and the mountains beyond. The property is roughly 2,100 square feet and functions almost like a compound: a two-bedroom, one-bath main house; a one-bedroom, one-bath apartment downstairs with its own entrance; and a separate 600-square-foot guest house, each with a full kitchen and the same view. All of it was built within the last ten years, unusual for Greece.

Their running costs, in their own numbers:

Roughly 1,800 euros a month covers everything, including groceries and dining out. Private health insurance runs 220 dollars a month for both of them, full coverage. Car insurance is 49 dollars a month. Water costs about $40 for the entire year. Electricity ranges from $80 to $100 a month, depending on air conditioning use. Property insurance is 600 euros a year for full coverage including earthquake and wildfire. Propane for cooking is $45 a tank, refilled about every three months. Cell service is 105 dollars for two unlimited lines plus 5G internet.

Two surprises. Petrol came in well over budget at roughly ten dollars a gallon, though their counterweight is that Greece is smaller than Florida, so nobody drives two hundred miles a day. The surprise ran the other way at the grocery store: the Greek government caps the profit margin on a basket of roughly 150 staples, which keeps everyday food prices reasonable.

🚶 Walkability and Transportation

Be honest with yourself about this one. Where they live, you need a car. The main square of Akrata is a seven- to ten-minute drive. They can walk down the mountain into Ano Platanos village for restaurants and the August festival season, and it is a fifteen- to twenty-minute walk to the train station, though Jeff notes the walk back up is another matter. The roads are a mix of pavement, brick, cobblestone, marble, and a final stretch of sealed gravel through an olive grove.

Without a car, the trains do a lot of work. They walk down to catch the diesel train to Kiato, about thirty minutes away, then transfer to the high-speed line into Athens. The whole trip runs about an hour and a half to an hour and forty-five minutes with the transfer, and it drops you directly at the Athens airport station. Rail fares are cheap, and permanent residents can get a resident pass. Parking is cheap too, if you would rather drive: five dollars a day at the airport, four dollars a day in central Athens.

🌈 LGBTQ+ Life

Jeff and Wally were not looking for a loud or highly visible gay scene. They wanted somewhere open, and they found the northern Peloponnese genuinely live and let live.

Greece is the most religious country in Europe by most measures, which sounds like it should cut the other way. Wally's read is that because Greek Orthodoxy is simply the religion, without competing denominations, it lacks the competitive religiosity he associates with intolerance. Church bells ring and holidays are a big deal, but nobody is in your face about it.

In practice, they don't introduce each other as husbands to strangers by default, a habit both trace to decades in corporate life rather than anything Greek. With neighbors, doctors, or anyone they expect to see again, they introduce themselves plainly. Nobody has ever stared. Greek men hug and greet with a double kiss, so two men having coffee is unremarkable.

Same-sex marriage became legal in Greece in February 2024, with civil unions roughly a decade before that. Their marriage was recognized without a blink, including in the federal system. For the bigger scene, Athens is about an hour and ten minutes away and has a substantial gay community. Closer to home, they have connected with a gay couple from South Africa one town over who split their time between Malta and Greece, and with an expat community group in Patras.

🌤 Climate, Earthquakes, and Wildfires

Winters are milder than Floridians expect but cooler than what they're used to, and it doesn't freeze like it can in Florida. Winter is the green season, a genuine novelty for two people accustomed to Florida going brown. The house is heated with split units, a pellet heater, and fireplaces. The Greek construction was a pleasant surprise: solid concrete, plaster walls, and double-insulated windows throughout. They only ran the air conditioning about half the summer.

On earthquakes, they take comfort in a house designed with a structural engineer and set back from the edge of the mountain rather than perched on the precipice like many of their neighbors. Wildfire is the bigger unknown. They mention Greece's new four-satellite wildfire detection system, and it checks out. The Hellenic Fire System launched in May 2026, built by OroraTech with the Greek government and the European Space Agency, and ESA calls it a world first for a national wildfire detection capability. It reaches fire services within minutes and spots hotspots as small as four meters square. Beyond that, their preparation is a go bag, an evacuation plan, and insurance that costs a fraction of what Florida charges, when Florida will sell it at all.

🛡 Crime and Safety

Their answer to whether they feel safe at all times, day or night, was 100%. Neither has felt unsafe, including walking through Athens in the middle of the night. Crime is mostly petty theft, and the standard pickpocket warnings for Athens apply as they would in any capital.

The difference they name most directly is firearms. Gun violence in the United States was a genuine factor in their decision to leave, and not worrying about it is something they notice. As LGBTQ+ people, they report the same answer: no staring, no sense of being marked, no incidents.

🎭 Arts, Culture, and Community

They now live within a couple of hours of more antiquity than they can get through. Delphi sits across the water from their house, and they can see it from home. Olympia, Nafplio, and the Acropolis are all day trips.

Two moments stood out. In the village at Olympia, a woman came out of a shop, learned they were Americans, and invited them in to tell them her son had carried the Olympic torch four times. Then she handed them the torch from the Moscow Olympics and let them hold it for pictures. The other was a performance at Epidaurus, a twenty-thousand-seat ancient amphitheater with famously perfect acoustics. The show started at eight, everyone was seated at eight, and for the entire performance nobody moved, spoke, or raised a phone. They called it otherworldly. One practical note on language: opera and foreign-language productions are typically surtitled in Greek and English, and American films are subtitled rather than dubbed.

🍴 Dining and Daily Rhythm

Dinner runs late. Eight o'clock is early, nine is acceptable, ten is normal. Walk into a restaurant at seven, and there may not be a cook there yet. Lunch is the larger meal, brunch can run until three or four, and then the town goes quiet for siesta before everyone comes back out at nine or ten. Jeff was at dinner one night at eleven and could not quite believe it, and it is not only young people. Grandparents and small children, too.

On the food itself, they are unreserved. Souvlaki, souvlaki gyros, pastitsio, horiatiki. Everything fresh. A lunch out for two, with a main each and a beer, runs about twenty-one to twenty-two dollars total, and closer to sixteen without the beer. No gratuity is expected, and by law restaurants cannot charge more than about fifty cents to a dollar for a large bottle of water. Olive oil comes in five-gallon containers for under twenty dollars.

🛂 Visas and Residency

Jeff and Wally came in on the Greek golden visa, which is tied to a qualifying real estate purchase rather than to income. There is no minimum stay requirement, though they chose to establish permanent and tax residency in Greece because they are pursuing citizenship. You must maintain the investment. You may rent the property out, but short-term rentals are not permitted.

There are three investment tiers. As of 2026, they are 800,000 euros in high-demand zones including Athens, Thessaloniki, and popular islands, 400,000 euros elsewhere in the country, and 250,000 euros for qualifying restoration or conversion projects that bring housing stock back to market. Jeff and Wally fell into the 400,000 tier. Current rules also require a minimum of 120 square meters on the property. Anyone considering this should verify the current framework with a Greek immigration lawyer, since these thresholds have been revised more than once in recent years.

They can apply for citizenship after seven years, provided they pass a citizenship test. The golden visa cannot be used to work or earn money inside Greece, though remote work for a US company is fine. Greece also offers a financially independent person visa, which is the closest equivalent of a retirement visa, and a digital nomad visa. Wally's point in favor of the golden visa is that renewal is essentially guaranteed as long as you maintain the investment, whereas the others renew on shorter cycles.

They hired an Athens law firm that specializes in this work and are unequivocal that it was worth every euro. The firm knew which office to file with, no trivial detail when some are badly backlogged. Their timeline ran from April to a credentialing trip in November, with the visa and residence permit arriving about thirty days later. The hardest part was opening a Greek bank account, which can take a year, but with help it took them under three months. Expect many documents to require an apostille, a word neither of them knew before starting.

🏥 Healthcare

Greece has both a public and a private system, and Jeff and Wally use both.

Buying into the public system costs about $80 per person per year, which works out to roughly $8 a month, and there are no pre-existing condition restrictions. Their private coverage costs $220 a month for both of them, with full coverage.

On quality, their read is that Greek doctors are well trained to European standards in both systems, and essentially all speak English. The private system pulls ahead in specialists and facilities, since this is an old country with older hospitals. Administrative staff more often have limited English. For anything major, they have been advised to go to Athens, and they are comfortable enough with Greek care that they didn't retain US coverage. Jeff had his double knee replacement done in the United States before the move, which he treated as a prerequisite.

🌟 Honest Trade-Offs

The hardest part of the move was not paperwork. It was leaving friends who had become family, people they saw every week.

Bureaucracy was less punishing than expected. The one real fight was paying vehicle sales tax in person, which meant finding the right government office and getting through its security. Greece has digitized a great deal since COVID, but the systems are not intuitive for a non-Greek speaker, and having a Greek friend walk them through a screen has been, in Jeff's words, a godsend. For anything else, they call their lawyer.

Their household goods took forty to fifty days to arrive by shipping container, which delayed the house feeling like theirs.

As for language, they can read the Greek alphabet, know common phrases, and recently got through an entire grocery run without a word of English. Reading a word and understanding it are not the same thing yet, and they are taking online classes through the fall. English is required in Greek schools and has been for decades, so younger people generally speak it. They use ChatGPT for phone calls with a neighbor who speaks very little. The Greeks notice and appreciate the effort, and cashiers and waitresses have started challenging them to order in Greek.

Who is this not right for? If you want things exactly as they were, if you expect the check the moment you finish eating, or expect the grocery store to stock what your American store stocked, this is not for you. They still cannot find yellow cake mix, and there are no salad dressings, because Greeks use olive oil and lemon. Wally also suggests an honest self-assessment: a true extrovert may struggle in rural Greece, while someone content to read for five days and then go into the city will likely thrive.

Their advice comes down to three things. Do the research. Set realistic expectations. Prepare yourself to transition into something completely different. If you are doing it as a couple, be aligned and have the uncomfortable conversations before you go, including what happens if one of you dies a month after arriving. The first month is hard. The first three months are hard. Then it starts to even out.

📚 Resources Mentioned

Akrata: Beach town in Achaia, northern Peloponnese, on the Gulf of Corinth

Ano Platanos: The mountain village above Akrata where Jeff and Wally live

Greek golden visa: Residency through real estate investment; 250,000, 400,000, and 800,000 euro tiers by zone as of 2026

Financially independent person visa: Greece's closest equivalent to a retirement visa

Apostille: International document certification, required throughout Greek residency paperwork

Kiato: Where the local diesel line connects to the high-speed train to Athens

Delphi: Ancient sanctuary visible across the Gulf, about two hours away

Olympia: Original site of the Olympic Games and start of the torch relay

Nafplio: Historic coastal town within day trip range

Epidaurus: Ancient amphitheater known for its acoustics and summer festival

Hellenic Fire System: Greece's four-satellite wildfire detection constellation, launched May 2026

Kafeneio: The traditional Greek coffee house

💬 Connect With Jeff and Wally

Jeff and Wally welcome listener questions by email at [email protected]. Their social accounts are private, and they are happy to share their handles with people who reach out. You can also send questions through Mark, and he will pass them along.

"If you want things to be exactly as they were, it's not for you."

Jeff and Wally, Akrata, Greece

🎧 Listen and Subscribe

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Join the conversation with 16,000+ LGBTQ+ people exploring retirement and relocation: facebook.com/groups/GayRetirementPlaces

The information shared in this episode reflects the personal experience of our guests and is not intended as legal, financial, or medical advice. Please consult qualified professionals before making any decisions about international relocation, visa applications, healthcare, or financial planning.

WHERE DO GAYS RETIRE PODCAST

Show Notes

Lancaster, PA: No Gay Bars,

No Gayborhood, No Problem

Hosted by Mark Goldstein| Guest: Stephen Hardy |Lancaster, Pennsylvania

Runtime: approximately 60 minutes

Stephen Hardy and his husband Addison thought Phoenix was the finish line. They had raised two sons there, downsized into a gut-renovated mid-century condo in Midtown, and built a full civic life. Stephen served on the boards of Ballet Arizona and Arizona Opera and chaired the ballet's 2025 gala. Then the desert started to wear on them. Addison missed having a garden. They both missed seasons, museums, and being a short hop from a big city.

France was ruled out over the language barrier and the bureaucracy. The Pacific Northwest, where they are both from, had gotten too expensive. New England was on the list, until Stephen's research turned up a name he was not expecting. Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

On paper it checked every box. Liberal, walkable, excellent health care, a serious arts and food scene, an hour by train to Philadelphia and three hours to New York, and no Pennsylvania state tax on retirement income. They visited in April 2025 and knew within two hours. They bought a 1920s townhouse in Chestnut Hill and moved in this past April.

Here is the part that surprises people. Lancaster has no gayborhood and no gay bar. Stephen says neither is missed. Pride flags fly year round in shop windows and on front porches. He and Addison hold hands walking home from the theater. The city is only about 60,000 people, but it packs them in densely enough that Stephen describes it as the West Village set down on its own in Pennsylvania. Four months in, they had built a full social circle with almost no effort.

If you have ever worried that leaving a big city gay scene means giving up community, this conversation is for you.

🎧 In This Episode

• Why a couple who loved Phoenix's arts scene still decided to leave
• What it actually feels like to be an out gay couple in a small city surrounded by conservative farm country
• Why Lancaster has no gay bar, and why Stephen argues it does not need one
• What a 1920s townhouse in the nicest neighborhood in town really costs
• How Pennsylvania's retirement income tax break stacks up against its property taxes
• The one piece of DMV paperwork that catches every out of state mover off guard
• How they built a real friend group in under four months

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 Introduction. Who Stephen and Addison are, and why Lancaster

03:18 From New York to Connecticut to Phoenix. Two dads, a fashion career, and a second act as an author

05:15 The Mark connection. Neighbors in Phoenix, and two very different exits

06:41 The April 2025 visit. Why the Philly suburbs did not work and Lancaster did in two hours

08:32 A family migration. Stephen's sister, then Addison's sister, followed them

09:04 It is not Amish country. A real small city with four colleges and a multi ethnic population

11:22 Choosing Chestnut Hill. Tree lined streets, fifteen minutes from Penn Square

13:11 Four seasons again. Snow, humidity, and why neither is a dealbreaker

15:23 Rivers, gentle hills, tree ordinances, and yes, sometimes you smell the fields

17:14 LGBTQ+ life. No gayborhood, no gay bar, and no sense of loss

19:31 The Gayest Happy Hour, the Belvedere, and year round Pride flags

19:47 The Gelks. How the Elks Club became a gay bingo night

20:51 Amish Country Queer, and the LGBTQ+ youth who come into the city to be themselves

21:59 City versus county. Navigating a conservative rural surround

23:28 The kilt question

24:03 Cost of living. What a Chestnut Hill townhouse costs, and what the $200,000s still buy

25:10 Property taxes, school taxes, and why they are glad to pay them

26:12 The famous Stephen and Addison renovation, round two

27:10 No Pennsylvania tax on Social Security, pensions, or retirement withdrawals

28:15 Utilities, groceries, dining out, and the state liquor store markup

30:29 Walkability, the Keystone train line, and getting to Philadelphia, New York, and Europe

33:01 Health care. Penn Medicine, an openly gay primary care doctor, and a dentist shortage

36:16 Crime and safety. Walking home at night, and the one real hazard

40:22 Arts and culture downtown. The Fulton, First Fridays, murals, and street pianos

41:52 Southern Market, Central Market, and a downtown with almost no chains

42:29 How they built a social life in four months

45:51 Where they eat

48:31 Logistics. Cash closing, utilities, and Pennsylvania's DMV plus notary two step

50:35 Inheritance tax and why they are updating their wills

51:55 What Stephen misses about Phoenix

53:03 Would he change anything

53:31 Advice for LGBTQ+ folks afraid of leaving a visible gay community behind

56:30 Stephen's books, contact information, and final words of wisdom

📊 Lancaster by the Numbers

• About 60,000 residents in the city, at roughly 8,100 per square mile, denser than Seattle
• A fifteen-minute walk from Chestnut Hill to Penn Square, twenty minutes to the train station
• One hour and five to fifteen minutes to Philadelphia on the Keystone line, twelve trains a day on weekdays and eight on weekends
• About three hours to New York on the same train
• $300,000 to $400,000 for a typical Chestnut Hill townhouse, and the $200,000s for a nice three-bedroom elsewhere in the city
• About $10,000 a year in property taxes across three overlapping tax districts, but $4,000 to $7,000 just blocks away
• About $275 a month for electric, gas, water, sewer, and garbage combined
• Zero Pennsylvania state tax on Social Security, pensions, and retirement account withdrawals
• 1730, the year Lancaster Central Market began, making it the oldest continuously operating public farmers market in the country
• 1852, the year the Fulton opened, widely considered the oldest continuously operating theater in America

💬 Moments Worth the Listen

On why there is no gayborhood:

Stephen's answer is not that Lancaster is too small for one. It is that the whole city functions as one. You do not feel a need to self-segregate to feel safe and welcomed. Everyone is simply mixed in, including the older gay couple across the street.

On the Elks Club:

Stephen remembers his father's Elks lodge as conservative and white. Lancaster's chapter has a contingent of gay members who call themselves the Gelks, and Tuesday night bingo is how Stephen and Addison met half their friend group.

On the first two hours in town:

Trans flags, Pride flags, and Black Lives Matter signs on the walk. Lilacs and tulips in bloom. Strangers stopping to say you have got to move here. That was it.

On what he would change:

Nothing. Every day we pretty much get up and pinch ourselves.

On the fear of leaving a gay scene behind:

You can be yourself anywhere. Gay bars matter enormously in places where people feel unsafe, Stephen says, but Lancaster is not one of those places, and the LGBTQ+ people who live there are there precisely because they feel safe

🎭 Arts and Culture Mentioned

• Fulton Theatre, an 1852 National Historic Landmark on Prince Street, with a mainstage and a black box, casting out of Philadelphia and New York
• First Fridays gallery walk along the Prince and Queen Street arts corridor
• Franklin and Marshall College, Pennsylvania College of Art and Design, Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology, and Millersville University
• Public pianos placed around town each spring, and the ongoing parking garage mural project
• Philadelphia Orchestra musicians who live in Lancaster and commute in

🍽️ Food and Drink Mentioned

• Lancaster Central Market, the 1730 farmers market at Penn Square
• Southern Market, a converted factory food hall with German, Korean, Caribbean, Mediterranean, and Turkish stalls, largely immigrant owned, with communal seating
• The Belvedere Inn, an 1870s mansion turned restaurant and bar, with jazz nights, a monthly cabaret, and Stephen's favorite lobster bisque and mussels
• Bert and the Elephant for Belgian, South County for barbecue, X Marks the Spot for soul food, plus Josephine's, C'est La Vie, and 401 Prime
• Lemon Street Market, a locally sourced grocery two and a half blocks from their house
• A downtown of independent coffee roasters, with no Starbucks in the city itself

🏳️‍🌈 LGBTQ+ Community Mentioned

• The Gayest Happy Hour, the first Thursday of every month
• Lancaster's Elks lodge and its Tuesday night bingo
• The Unitarian Universalist congregation, plus affirming Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregational, Catholic, Protestant, and Mennonite churches
• Amish Country Queer, the documentary spotlighting LGBTQ+ life in Pennsylvania Dutch country

🏥 Health Care Mentioned

• Penn Medicine Lancaster General Health, a Level I trauma center with a large physician network in the city
• Penn State Health's newer Lancaster hospital

🚆 Getting Around

• Amtrak Keystone line from Lancaster Station, running Harrisburg to Philadelphia to New York
• SEPTA connection from Philadelphia to every terminal at Philadelphia International
• Lancaster Airport, fifteen minutes away, with direct flights to Chicago and Orlando
• Harrisburg International, about forty five minutes away

✍️ About Stephen Hardy

Stephen is a former fashion designer, stay at home dad, and Connecticut real estate agent who became an author. He wrote the Christopher trilogy, Search for Complete, The Price of Happiness, and When the Sun and Moon Touch, about interpersonal relationships, how conversation becomes a catalyst for change, and how people arrive in our lives for a reason we do not always recognize at the time. It is a theme he says has played out repeatedly since moving to Lancaster.

The books are available on Amazon in Kindle, Kindle Unlimited, and paperback.

Stephen is happy to hear from listeners considering a move to Lancaster.

• Author email — [email protected]
• Personal email — [email protected]
• Facebook — stephen.hardy.319
• Also on Instagram

🌐 Connect With Mark and the Community

• Facebook: Where Do Gays Retire — facebook.com/groups/wheredogaysretire
• Facebook: Gay Men 60 and Better — facebook.com/groups/gaymen60andbetter
• Email Mark — [email protected]
• Schedule a call with Mark — savvycal.com/Markscalendar
• Full episode archive — wheredogaysretire.com

☕ Support the Podcast

If you enjoy the Where Do Gays Retire podcast, please subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who is weighing the same questions. You can also support the show by buying Mark a coffee at wheredogaysretire.com. Each $5 coffee helps keep the podcast going.

"Retirement is not just about warm weather.

It is about living openly, safely, and fabulously,

wherever in the world that may be for you."

— Mark Goldstein, Where Do Gays Retire

🎙️ Uruguay for LGBTQ+ Expats: Permanent Residency, Public Healthcare, and Daily Life in Montevideo

Hosted by Mark Goldstein, Where Do Gays Retire

Uruguay has some of the strongest LGBTQ+ legal protections in the world, and almost nobody talks about it. Steven Guthrie noticed. When he started looking for somewhere outside the United States to build a life, Spain and Mexico were the obvious candidates. Both were also filling up fast, with rising housing costs and growing friction between newcomers and locals. He wanted somewhere his money would go far and stay that way.

A trip through Argentina and Chile, plus a detour into astrocartography, landed him in Montevideo in October 2022. He has been there ever since, now holding permanent residency and managing a growing LGBTQ+ immigrant community of roughly 160 people.

In this chat, Steven walks us through what daily life in Montevideo actually costs, how he navigated residency without a lawyer, what the public healthcare system covers, and why individualism will not serve you well in Uruguay.

🌟 What We Cover

• Why Steven ruled out Spain and Mexico, and what drew him to Uruguay instead
• Neighborhood by neighborhood: where to land first as a newcomer, and which areas feel most livable long term
• The climate reality, including a winter that gets colder than the palm trees suggest and a sun strength that surprises people from Florida
• Walkability, the bus network, and life without a car
• Carnival, candombe, murgas, and one of the longest celebrations in the world
• Honest trade-offs: the distance from the US, the absence of direct flights, and what Steven genuinely misses

🌈 LGBTQ+ Life

• Whether the day-to-day experience matches Uruguay's strong legal reputation, and where the gaps still are
• Building community from scratch: the WhatsApp group, monthly brunches, the gay men's chorus, and the resource website Steven's group launched
• Dating culture in Montevideo, and why relationships move faster than most Americans expect
• Gender affirming care and what is and is not available for trans residents

💰 Costs and Housing

• What a realistic monthly budget looks like, and what it buys
• Rent in the city center, utilities, and the imported goods that cost far more than you would expect
• Why Uruguay is one of the pricier countries in Latin America, and where the money still goes further than in the US

🏥 Healthcare

• The three systems explained: mutualistas, the public ASSE system, and how pre-existing conditions factor in
• HIV treatment access, PrEP availability, and the organization that helps new arrivals bridge their medication gap
• What to sort out before you move if you manage a chronic condition
• Language and healthcare: why Spanish matters more than finding an English speaking doctor

🛂 Visas and Residency

• The residency process step by step, and the documents that slow people down
• Steven's advice on relocation specialists, and why he says you do not need a lawyer
• The path to citizenship in five years, with no language test required
• Uruguay's ten-year tax holiday on foreign income

📊 Numbers Steven Shared

At the time of recording, Steven described a comfortable monthly budget of roughly $1,500 to $2,000 for a lifestyle similar to what most Americans expect. He pays around $850 a month for a two-bedroom apartment in the city center, with utilities typically running $50 to $75 depending on the season. He mentioned seeing refurbished apartments in the city center listed around $150,000. Private mutualista healthcare, as he understands it, runs roughly $50 to $70 a month, while the public ASSE system he uses has been free for him, including HIV medications, specialist visits, and lab work. He estimated relocation specialists charge somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 per person. Costs vary by neighborhood, lifestyle, and exchange rate.

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• ASEPO, a Uruguayan organization that connects people with HIV to medical providers, testing, and medication
• Centro LGBTQ Uruguay, the community resource site Steven's group built for LGBTQ+ immigrants: centrolgbtquy.org
• Steven's TikTok, where he shares his experience of Uruguayan culture and cuisine: @stevensinfronteras

🎧 Listen Now

Find this episode and the full catalog at wheredogaysretire.com, covering destinations across Europe, Latin America, Asia, Africa, and more than forty US cities.

💬 Join the Conversation

Thinking about Montevideo and want to talk with people already living it? Steven's group welcomes questions from prospective immigrants at [email protected].

Are you an LGBTQ+ expat living in a destination you love? We would love to hear your story. The Where Do Gays Retire podcast is always looking for guests from affirming destinations around the world. Reach out to Mark at [email protected].

The information shared in this episode reflects the personal experiences of our guest and is for general informational purposes only. Costs, healthcare details, residency requirements, and tax rules described here reflect Steven's own experience at the time of recording and are not universal figures. Immigration policies, healthcare coverage, and tax regulations change frequently. Please consult qualified legal, medical, immigration, and financial professionals, or the appropriate Uruguayan consulate, before making any decisions about living or retiring abroad.

Retiring in Toulouse, France: Gay Life in the Pink City with Cameron Bray

In this episode, host Mark Goldstein sits down with Cameron Bray, an Australian-born, naturalized British citizen who has been living permanently in Toulouse, France for over ten years. Cameron arrived with a simple plan: stay three months, learn some French, and move on. That plan never quite worked out. He fell in love with the city, fell in love with a French partner, and never left. Now approaching 60, Cameron is a gay man who has built a full and thriving life in southwest France, founding his own international human resources consultancy and navigating French business life as a foreign entrepreneur. He hopes that by sharing his experience, he can inspire others to take that same leap.

Note on currency: as of June 21, 2026, 1 Euro equals approximately $1.15 USD. All figures in this episode are from Cameron's personal experience and reflect conditions at the time of recording.

What Is Toulouse

Toulouse is France's fourth largest metropolitan area and its fastest growing city, located in the southwest corner of the country near the Spanish border, roughly three hours northwest of Barcelona. Often called La Ville Rose, or the Pink City, the city earned its name from the distinctive long, thin red bricks used in its buildings throughout the region. In certain light, particularly at sunset, the bricks give the entire city a warm pink glow. The Garonne River runs through it. Views of the Pyrenees mountain range are visible from the city center.

Cameron describes Toulouse as a "Goldilocks city": not too big, not too small. At roughly 1.2 million people in the metro area, it has enough energy, ambience, and cultural life to feel vibrant, without the overwhelming scale of a major global city. It is also France's biggest university town outside of Paris, which gives it a youthful, buzzing street energy that Cameron says he still pinches himself about after a decade.

Why Cameron Chose It

Cameron did not plan to stay. He came on the recommendation of friends who had a small apartment there, with a flight to check out the Alliance Francaise language school. He had been made redundant as an HR director in Brighton, had recently come out of a long relationship, and had the financial cushion and the freedom to try something different. What was meant to be a three-month adventure became a permanent life. He describes the move as one driven by gut instinct rather than analysis, noting that over-thinking it might have sent him straight back to the airport.

LGBTQ+ Life

Toulouse and France more broadly have a deeply laissez-faire attitude toward sexuality. Cameron says he has never experienced discrimination, abuse, or felt unsafe walking the streets of Toulouse or anywhere else in France as a gay man, including in the countryside. France was one of the first countries to decriminalize homosexuality, and same-sex civil partnerships and marriages have been legal for over twenty years, with the same rights as heterosexual partnerships.

There is no defined gayborhood in Toulouse, and Cameron says that is very much a reflection of how accepted LGBTQ+ life is there: there is simply no need for one. Gay bars and venues exist, though Cameron notes, as in many cities around the world, the traditional scene has shifted with the rise of apps. Gay men and women live throughout the city and in the surrounding countryside. Cameron has friends, a gay couple, who live in a small rural village an hour and a half away and were welcomed by the mayor at the village festival with flowers and wine, the same as every other new resident.

Daily Life and Walkability

Toulouse is highly walkable, and Cameron describes his immediate neighborhood as a textbook example of what some urban planners now call the 15-minute city. His bakery is in the building. His butcher, fruit and vegetable shop, wine shop, pharmacy, supermarket, and tram stop are all within a few hundred yards. A fresh market takes place nearby daily.

Over the past decade, Toulouse has actively worked to remove cars from the historic city center, converting parking into bike lanes and creating shared pedestrian, cycling, and scooter spaces. The old city is a labyrinth of cobbled streets that was never really designed for cars in the first place. Cameron and his partner walk rather than drive and say they rarely take taxis anywhere within the city.

Food and Cafe Culture

Food culture in Toulouse is rural-based and deeply regional. The city is known for a few signature dishes: the saucisse de Toulouse, a thick, fatty sausage typically served with pureed potatoes; cassoulet, a hearty white bean stew with dark sausage and breadcrumbs that originated as farmhouse food; and anything involving duck, including confit and, yes, foie gras. Fresh markets are central to daily life, and most meals are cooked from scratch. Processed food is far less prevalent in supermarkets than in the US or Australia.

Cameron describes the French relationship with food as one of appreciation rather than consumption. Meals are structured: breakfast, then nothing, then lunch, then nothing, then dinner. Portion sizes are smaller. People eat slowly, talk about what they are eating, and treat wine and food as part of the conversation rather than just fuel. The result, Cameron observes with some bemusement, is that Toulouse is full of people eating rich food in large quantities and yet very few are obese.

The cafe culture in Toulouse is genuine. Coffee in the morning under plane trees, wine in the evening at a bar. The city is also France's largest university town outside of Paris, which means the streets stay lively, particularly on Thursday nights, which the locals call le petit weekend. Dinner tends to start around 7:30 to 8:00, preceded by a proper apero of charcuterie, cheese, bread, and wine that can last an hour or more on its own.

Language

Cameron arrived expecting Toulouse to be less English-friendly than Paris or Bordeaux. He was wrong. Because Airbus, the aviation company, is headquartered in Toulouse, and because American firms like Pratt and Whitney and Rockwell Collins have a major presence there as well, English is widely spoken throughout the city. The European Space Agency is also based there. Signs at the airport and many local businesses operate bilingually. Cameron says that when he first arrived and tried his schoolboy French, shopkeepers would often just switch straight to English.

That said, Cameron strongly recommends making a genuine effort with the language. The French appreciate the attempt, even if they complete the sentence for you. He adds that younger French people today are notably more fluent in English than the older generation, and that Toulouse in particular has an internationally-minded feel that makes it more accessible for non-French speakers than many French cities.

Costs and Housing

Cameron owns a one-bedroom apartment in Toulouse with views of the Garonne River and the Pyrenees, a terrace, a garage, and a cellar. He paid 190,000 euros (approximately $218,500 USD) for it three years ago. His annual electricity bill runs around 400 euros (approximately $460 USD) for two people, in part because of favorable sun exposure in winter. His internet, phone, and basic television package runs approximately 40 euros a month (approximately $46 USD). His mobile phone plan costs around 15 euros a month (approximately $17 USD).

Public transport within Toulouse is 2 euros per trip for the subway or bus, and free for seniors. Train travel across the region is one euro on the first Sunday of every month, a government initiative to help people with fewer means stay connected. All museums are free that same Sunday. Cameron describes France's socialist economic model as providing a genuine cushion: during the energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine, electricity prices in France rose only 4 percent while UK prices spiked 54 percent, because the French government owns its energy suppliers and capped price increases.

French property culture is notably different from the Anglo world. Property here is bought to live in, not to flip. Prices rise slowly. Cameron says the expectation of making a fast profit on real estate simply does not exist in France the way it does in the US or Australia, and he sees that as a feature rather than a bug.

Healthcare

France operates a universal healthcare system. If you are sick, you will be seen and treated regardless of your ability to pay. Cameron describes five hospital visits for conjunctivitis earlier this year: he walked in, was treated, and walked out each time without a bill. Emergency and life-critical care is covered entirely by the state. Some medications require a small co-pay; others are free.

Most residents supplement the public system with a mutuelle, a top-up private insurance that covers things like a private hospital room, dental, physiotherapy, and osteopathy. Cameron pays 60 euros a month (approximately $69 USD) for his mutuelle. He emphasizes this is not like American private health insurance: the mutuelle covers what the state does not, rather than replacing the state system entirely.

For new arrivals, getting into the French health system takes patience. Cameron waited nine months to receive his health card. Bureaucracy is a real hurdle, and the administration does not make the process intuitive. However, once you are in the system, it is reliable. A colonoscopy consultation for Cameron's partner, who has a family history of colon cancer, was booked about four months out, which Cameron considers reasonable for a non-urgent specialist appointment. He notes that dermatology has particularly long waits, while cancer care is exceptional: Toulouse is home to one of the largest cancer hospitals in France.

English-speaking doctors and dentists are available in Toulouse, and Cameron had a friend receive a prescription via a telehealth consultation, dispensed at the local pharmacy for roughly 20 euros, covered at French rates.

Visas and Residency

Non-EU citizens looking to retire to France will generally need a long-stay visa. The requirements include proof of self-funded income, typically around 1,400 to 1,500 euros per month (approximately $1,610 to $1,725 USD) from Social Security, pensions, IRA withdrawals, savings, or rental income; proof of health insurance to a minimum value of approximately 30,000 euros per year; and confirmation of accommodation. You must also demonstrate that you are not intending to work.

After three months in France, you can apply to enter the PUMA health system. As a foreign retiree, you will pay into it and receive approximately 70 percent of eligible costs reimbursed. Getting through the initial registration process takes time, typically around nine months, and involves considerable paperwork. Cameron describes it as a "French nightmare" you must get through in order to reach the French dream. Persistence matters more than perfection.

After five years, residents can apply for permanent residency, which is valid for ten years and renewable. Cameron recently renewed his, having first obtained it through Brexit protections as a British citizen. He notes that France now requires applicants for permanent residency to demonstrate French language skills at roughly a primary school level (approximately B2 on the CEFR scale), a relatively new requirement that reflects a broader European trend toward language integration standards.

Cameron also mentions that EU passport holders, including those who qualify through ancestry from an EU country, can move to France freely without a visa, much like moving between US states.

Arts, Culture, and Community

Toulouse has a dense cultural calendar. An opera house, multiple theaters, cinemas, a major music auditorium that draws international acts, and an annual organ festival in October that opens the city's historic churches to concerts ranging from classical to Queen. The Fete de la Musique on June 21st fills every street, cafe, and courtyard with live music through the night. The Musee des Augustins, a museum comparable in scope to a smaller Louvre, recently reopened after a four-year renovation. There is also a space museum tied to the European Space Agency and an aviation museum tied to Airbus.

Museums are free on the first Sunday of each month. Cameron says you could go out every night of the week in Toulouse and never repeat yourself.

Honest Trade-Offs

Toulouse is not Paris, and Cameron makes no apology for that. If you are looking for Hausmann-style grandeur, the Eiffel Tower, or Emily in Paris, this is the wrong city. But he argues that the version of France most people imagine from films and television is not what most French people actually live. Toulouse is warmer, looser, more relaxed, and more genuinely welcoming than its international reputation might suggest.

The French bureaucratic system is a significant challenge for new arrivals. Getting into the healthcare system, the driving license system, the tax system, and the residency system all require patience, persistence, and a very large paper trail. Cameron says the phrase "bureaucracy is a French word" is not a cliche but a lived reality, and new arrivals should plan for nine to twelve months of paperwork before things normalize.

Summers are hot, hovering around 40 degrees Celsius (approximately 104 Fahrenheit) during heat waves, and climate change is making those heat waves longer. Most of the older building stock in the city center does not have air conditioning, though the thick brick construction keeps interiors cool in most conditions.

Language is the other significant trade-off. While Toulouse is more English-friendly than expected, integration into French life requires some French. Cameron's advice: come in with respect for the culture, drop the expectation that things will work the way they do at home, and make the effort. The French will meet you more than halfway if you do.

Cameron's parting thought: "Come and try it. Come and visit. Follow your heart. France is the most visited country in the world for a reason. Get out of Paris. Get into the provincial cities, the little towns, the villages. Come with an open heart and mind and an empty stomach, and just go for it."

Resources Mentioned

Airbus, headquartered in Toulouse: airbus.com

European Space Agency, Toulouse: esa.int

Alliance Française language schools: alliancefrancaise.fr

Air Doctor (telehealth platform for travelers): airdoctor.com

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Warmly,

Mark Goldstein

Host, Where Do Gays Retire

Stay Connected: wheredogaysretire.com | [email protected]

The information in this episode reflects the guest's personal experience at the time of recording. Visa requirements, healthcare costs, and currency exchange rates are subject to change. Always consult qualified legal, financial, and immigration professionals before making any relocation decisions.

Is Lyon, France the Most Livable City in Europe for Gay Retirees? With Eric Way

In this episode, host Mark Goldstein sits down with Eric Way, a Tennessee-born engineer who arrived in Lyon, France, in 1989 as a university exchange student and never left. Now approaching his 38th year in the city, Eric lives downtown in a 19th-century apartment with his French architect husband and splits time between Lyon and a farmhouse they own in the French Alps. He brings a rare depth of perspective: nearly four decades as an American expat, a career in corporate diversity and inclusion, and a front-row seat to how Lyon has evolved as a livable, gay-friendly city.

This episode covers what it actually looks like to build a life in Lyon: the walkability, the world-ranked healthcare, the cost of living compared to Paris, the LGBTQ+ scene, the visa path, and the honest trade-offs.

What Is Lyon

Lyon is France's third-largest city, located in southeastern France at the confluence of the Rhône and Saône rivers, a geographic feature that gives the city two riverfront parks and a distinctive linear layout. It sits roughly two hours south of Paris by high-speed train and serves as a hub for reaching the French Alps, the Beaujolais wine region, Burgundy, the Riviera, and even Barcelona. The historic center, known as the Presqu'île (the peninsula), is a UNESCO World Heritage site dating back to the Renaissance and the Middle Ages. Lyon is widely considered the gastronomic capital of France.

Why Eric Chose Lyon

Eric arrived in 1989 on a one-year university exchange program and found something he did not expect: a city whose values matched his own. Coming from a fundamentalist Christian family in Tennessee and still in the process of coming out, he discovered in Lyon a culture of live-and-let-live tolerance that felt, in his words, freer than the United States. He stayed. A few years later, he met his husband. The rest, as he says, is history.

LGBTQ+ Life

Lyon has a visible but modest LGBTQ+ scene concentrated around the City Hall area on the Presqu'île. At the time of recording, there are two gay bars, a gay sauna, a sex club, and a bear bar reportedly opening within months. There is a city-sponsored LGBTQ+ center and an annual Pride march, though Eric notes that Lyon Pride has become more politically divided in recent years, with some organizers now refusing corporate participation. The broader city is deeply accepting. Eric and his husband have lived part-time in a 250-person Alpine village for years and describe being fully adopted by their elderly neighbors without a moment of discomfort. Among their friend group, gay and straight friendships naturally overlap, though, like many couples without children, their closest circle has become predominantly other gay couples over time.

Daily Life and Walkability

Eric's doctor is three blocks away. His pharmacy, organic grocery store, bank, bakery, butcher, and eye care are all within one to two blocks. Outdoor markets run on Wednesdays and Sundays in his neighborhood. The metro system is efficient and growing, with a tram network expanding even faster. A single ticket costs approximately 2.30 euros and covers one hour of travel. Monthly passes run around 100 euros. Seniors receive rail discounts starting at age 60, often allowing first-class travel at second-class prices.

Eric drives his older car into Lyon no more than 52 times per year under a city environmental permit system, which he now finds perfectly adequate since he is no longer working. Lyon's riverfront parks, pedestrian streets, and walkable neighborhoods make car ownership largely optional for daily life.

Costs and Housing

Lyon is typically half the price of Paris for both rent and property. Eric and his husband purchased their 800-square-foot, two-bedroom downtown apartment approximately 30 years ago for about $35,000. It is now worth roughly ten times that. Their monthly electricity bill runs approximately 70 to 80 euros every two months; gas adds about 45 euros on top of that. France applies a 20% VAT on most purchases, which is worth factoring into any cost-of-living comparison.

Healthcare

France's healthcare system consistently ranks first in the world for quality, accessibility, and cost. A standard doctor visit costs 30 euros; specialist visits range from 70 to over 100 euros. Foreign residents access coverage through PUMA, France's universal health coverage, which applies to legal residents regardless of employment status. Most residents also carry a Mutuelle, a supplementary top-up insurance policy that covers what the national system does not. Eric pays approximately 250 euros per month for a Mutuelle covering both himself and his husband.

Visas and Residency

The standard route for American retirees is a long-stay visitor visa, applied for through the French consulate in the United States before departure. Residents typically start with one-year renewals before eventually qualifying for a ten-year card. Eric notes that a recent change to French law has removed the citizenship pathway for non-working residents. Americans retiring to France on a visitor visa are unlikely to be eligible for naturalization under the current rules.

France does not officially recognize a digital nomad visa. Eric cautions anyone planning to work remotely in France to take legal advice before doing so, as working without proper authorization carries real risk.

Taxes

The US-France tax treaty is highly favorable for American retirees. If your income is US-sourced, France will generally not tax it, and you will continue paying US rates. Eric recommends working with both a US tax preparer and a French one, particularly for the first few years.

One specific flag: France does not recognize trusts. If you have a trust established in the United States, you need professional advice before moving to France, as it will be taxed very unfavorably and may fall outside the treaty's protections.

France also has a wealth tax on real estate holdings above approximately 1.2 million euros, and forced heirship laws that entitle children to a portion of your estate regardless of your wishes. Both are worth understanding before making the move.

Crime and Safety

Eric has lived in Lyon's city center for nearly four decades and describes feeling consistently safe. In that entire time, he recalls one incident in which he and his husband were briefly followed downtown and had to walk away quickly. France has a higher rate of property crime relative to the United States, but a significantly lower rate of violent crime and essentially no gun violence outside of hunting contexts. Responsible gun ownership is legally required: pistols for target shooting require a course and registration.

Arts, Culture, and Community

Lyon has the second-largest fine arts museum in France outside the Louvre, a national orchestra, a Jean Nouvel-designed opera house, the Maison de la Danse (an internationally renowned contemporary dance center with a biennial festival), and rotating modern art exhibitions in repurposed industrial spaces. The Festival of Lights each December transforms the city's buildings into a four-day sound-and-light spectacle. June 21 brings the Fête de la Musique, a nationwide outdoor concert event where every square in the city fills with live music from classical to rock to jazz.

What to Know Before You Go

French is essential. Eric is direct about this: people who arrive expecting to get by on a few phrases or believing fluency will come by osmosis are setting themselves up for frustration and social isolation. He recommends investing in one-on-one instruction before you arrive, not after. Jumpspeak is his suggested app for building conversational fluency.

The climate has four seasons: mild winters with rare snow, pleasant springs and autumns, and summers that are warming noticeably due to climate change. Eric manages without air conditioning through insulation techniques, though newer and renovated buildings increasingly have heat pumps that provide cooling as a byproduct.

Lyon rewards people who want to get out and explore. The city sits at the gateway to the Alps, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Provence, the Riviera, Switzerland, and Italy. Eric and his husband once went bungee jumping in the Alps, drove to Italy for pasta for dinner, and were home in Lyon that night. For those who prefer to stay closer to home, the outdoor markets, river walks, and restaurant scene are enough to fill a very good life.

Resources Mentioned

Presqu'ile: Lyon's central peninsula neighborhood between the Rhone and Saone rivers Perrache: The original Lyon train station, three minutes from Eric's apartment Fourviere: The hilltop with Lyon's famous basilica and Roman ruins Beaujolais vineyards: 30 minutes from Lyon; beautiful in autumn Albertville: Near Eric's Alpine farmhouse; site of the 1992 Winter Olympics Festival of Lights (Fete des Lumieres): Annual four-day light installation festival each December Fete de la Musique: June 21, nationwide outdoor music festival Maison de la Danse: Lyon's internationally recognized contemporary dance center PUMA: France's universal health coverage for residents Mutuelle: Supplementary insurance that tops up public healthcare coverage PACS: French civil partnership; same tax treatment as marriage, with one exception: survivor pension rights do not transfer unless married Jumpspeak: Language learning app recommended by Eric for conversational French

Listen to this episode wherever you get your podcasts, on YouTube, or at wheredogaysretire.com

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The information shared in this episode reflects the personal experience of our guest and is not intended as legal, financial, or medical advice. Please consult qualified professionals before making any decisions about international relocation, visa applications, healthcare, or financial planning.

Retiring as a Single Lesbian in Setúbal, Portugal: Finding Community Beyond Lisbon

Guest: Jules de Mello | Host: Mark Goldstein

When Jules de Mello retired after a 27-year career as a federal criminal investigator, she went looking for a sunny, walkable place near the water where she could build a full life on her own terms. Lisbon was the plan, until the rents priced her out. Then she discovered Setúbal, a working port city on the cusp of its own renaissance, and never looked back.

In this conversation, Jules opens up about what it really takes to retire as a single lesbian abroad: finding her people, and often building community from scratch, navigating a country that is warmly accepting but culturally reserved, and weighing the honest trade-offs of starting over solo in a place where you do not yet speak the language. It is a warm, practical, and refreshingly candid look at one of Portugal's most underrated cities.

Meet Jules

Jules spent 27 years as a federal criminal investigator across several U.S. agencies before retiring in 2022. With Azorean roots on her great-grandfather's side, Portugal had always called to her. She first scouted the country in 2018, arrived permanently in Setúbal in April 2023, and soon became a self-described "connector," co-founding the Setúbal Pride meetup to bring locals, women, trans, and non-binary folks together in a community that had mostly orbited Lisbon before.

In this episode

• 00:00 Introduction: from federal investigator to Setúbal
• 04:02 The 2018 trip that planted the seed
• 06:48 Priced out of Lisbon
• 09:31 Renting vs. buying in Portugal
• 13:41 What Setúbal is really like
• 17:46 Climate and the seasons
• 24:00 Building queer community and founding Setúbal Pride
• 29:31 LGBTQ+ acceptance and local culture
• 33:53 Cost of living: rent and housing
• 44:55 Utilities, internet, and getting around
• 48:30 Food, markets, and the daily lunch special
• 55:16 Walkability and transportation
• 1:06:06 Healthcare: public, private, and Medicare
• 1:25:39 Dining, wine, and café culture
• 1:31:14 Visas and residency
• 1:39:18 Honest trade-offs and final advice

What you'll learn

Why Setúbal, and not Lisbon? A medium-sized port city of roughly 140,000 people, Setúbal sits on an estuary with the Arrábida Nature Reserve rising behind it. Jules compares the feel to standing at the water's edge in Seattle, looking back at the hills. Downtown is flat and walkable, the covered market is considered one of the best in Portugal, and you are a short drive or train ride from Lisbon without paying Lisbon prices.

What acceptance actually looks like. Portugal is legally progressive, with marriage equality and legal abortion that both predate the United States, but the culture is reserved and private. As Jules puts it, you can show up exactly as you are and be accepted, without anyone needing to label it or make a fuss. Older generations who lived under the dictatorship tend to be more guarded, while younger people simply do not think twice.

The reality of building community. Finding the LGBTQ+ community as a single woman took real effort. Jules and a friend started the Setúbal Pride meetup in early 2024, hosting tea dances, potlucks, film nights, and gatherings designed to be diverse and welcoming. Her honest take: lesbians and gay men often socialize differently, and the language and cultural barriers add another layer, so she had to become the initiator rather than wait for community to find her.

Walkability with caveats. Downtown is flat, and you can reach the butcher, the market, the pharmacy, and your doctor on foot, supported by a strong local bus system. But the cobblestone calçadas are uneven and tough on anyone with mobility challenges, so comfortable, flat walking shoes are not optional.

Healthcare, honestly explained. Once you live in Portugal, you are covered under the public system, and many residents also carry private insurance. The two systems run in parallel and do not really talk to each other. Trauma and emergencies are routed through the public hospital, while private insurance speeds up elective procedures that would otherwise mean long public waitlists. Almost every physician speaks English, though front-desk staff and nurses often do not, so a translation app becomes part of every appointment.

A practical snapshot

These are the figures Jules shared from her own experience around the time of recording. Treat them as a starting point, not a quote: costs shift with the market, and euro amounts convert to dollars at the current exchange rate.

• Rent (1 to 2 bedrooms): roughly 700 to 1,200 euros per month, rising toward 1,900 for newer units with modern amenities like a garage and air conditioning. Many traditional apartments come without appliances or a dryer (clothes dry on the line).
• Internet, phone, and TV bundle: around 50 euros per month for high-speed fiber.
• Electricity: can climb to about 200 euros in the hottest summer month if you run air conditioning heavily. Electricity and gasoline are both expensive; gas runs roughly 2 euros per liter, which Jules estimates at nearly 10 dollars per gallon.
• The daily lunch special (prato do dia): about 12 to 13 euros for several courses, often including bread, olives, a main, dessert, coffee, and wine.
• Private health insurance: roughly 100 euros per month under age 60, climbing to around 200 in your sixties. Only one private insurer in Portugal will enroll people over 70, though existing policyholders are generally kept on.

Jules came on the D7 visa, sometimes called the retiree or passive-income visa. Her path: initial approval valid for 2 years, followed by a 3-year renewal, with the option to apply for permanent residency after 5 years of legal residence. She applied through the VFS vendor that handles Portuguese consular appointments in the U.S., interviewed in Washington, D.C., and saw approval in about 60 days, though timelines vary widely by consulate and can stretch to many months if documents expire mid-process.

Important accuracy note on citizenship. Jules mentions that the path to Portuguese citizenship was extended from 5 to 10 years. We confirmed this: Portugal's Parliament approved a revised Nationality Law on April 1, 2026, and the President signed it on May 3, 2026, raising the residency requirement for naturalization to ten years for most non-EU nationals and seven years for EU and Portuguese-speaking (CPLP) nationals, with the residency clock now counting from the issuance of your first residence permit. Some details, including the exact effective date upon official publication and how the change applies to people already in the pipeline, were still being settled at the time of recording, and a constitutional challenge had been filed. This is a fast-moving and consequential area, so if citizenship is part of your plan, please confirm the current rules with a qualified Portuguese immigration attorney before making decisions. Permanent residency after five years is a separate process from citizenship.

Jules on the honest trade-off

The hardest thing she gave up was the ease of finding community. Back home, queer life came with built-in hiking groups, dinner clubs, and shows to attend together. In Setúbal, she had to build that herself, and she has, becoming the bridge-builder her Portuguese choir mates now thank for getting everyone out the door. Her advice for anyone considering the move: visit beyond the vacation version, stay in a real neighborhood, do your own grocery run, and feel what daily life is honestly like before you commit. And, in the spirit of a friend who lives by it, say yes to every invitation.

Listen and connect

Listen to the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts, and explore more LGBTQ+ retirement destinations at wheredogaysretire.com.

Have a question about retiring abroad or a destination you'd like us to cover? Reach out through the website and join the conversation in our Facebook community. https://www.facebook.com/groups/GayRetirementPlaces

"This was a wonderful, beautiful place to land. And I like sharing it with other people, because it's that good." — Jules de Mello

🎙️ Where Do Gays Retire Podcast

Transgender in Mexico: Living Authentically Abroad

Guest: Stephanie Byers |Host: Mark Goldstein

What does it actually feel like to walk down the street as a trans woman in a small Mexican lakeside town, and have nobody give you a second glance? That's the reality Stephanie Byers describes in this deeply moving and eye-opening episode. Stephanie, a former Kansas state legislator, GLSEN National Educator of the Year, and the first transgender Native American ever elected to a U.S. state legislature, and her wife Lori now call Ajijic, Mexico, home. And she says it's the freest she has ever felt.

Whether you're trans, LGBTQ+, or simply curious about what life looks like on the shores of Lake Chapala, this episode is for you. Stephanie holds nothing back, from the paperwork to the pharmacies to the cost of a knee replacement to the neighbor who shows up with a walker before you even get home from the hospital.

Stephanie Byers is a 63-year-old trans woman, Native American, educator, activist, and trailblazer. Here are a few highlights from her remarkable life:

• Spent 32 years teaching band and orchestra, including 29 years in Wichita, Kansas, and 28 of those at a single high school.
• Began living authentically in 2014, describing it not as a transition but as simply allowing the world to finally see who she had always been.
• Named the GLSEN National Educator of the Year in 2018. Her students celebrated by replacing toilet paper in 100-year-old oak trees with rainbow streamers.
• Spoke on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court during the landmark Bostock v. Clayton County hearings, the case that redefined "on the basis of sex" to include sexual orientation and gender identity.
• In 2020, became the first transgender Native American ever elected to a U.S. state legislature, serving in the Kansas House of Representatives.
• After her legislative term, she and her wife, Lori, moved to San Antonio, Texas, to care for Lori's aging parents.
• In March 2025, Stephanie and Lori moved to Riberas del Pilar on the shores of Lake Chapala, just outside Ajijic, Mexico.

Stephanie describes the Ajijic expat community as overwhelmingly liberal and affirming, with a thriving LGBTQ+ presence:

• The transgender expat community is actively growing. Stephanie knows multiple trans women, trans men, and non-binary people living in the area.
• The local attitude is best described as live and let live. Walking down the street, Stephanie is simply "a woman" to the people she passes.
• Occasional misgendering happens, but Stephanie attributes it almost entirely to language translation rather than intention. Spanish uses "su" for he, she, and it, so nuance can get lost.
• The expat community is notably protective of its LGBTQ+ members. When uncomfortable moments arise, people show up.
• A Queer Women of Lake Chapala group and a Queer Men of Lake Chapala group both meet weekly.
• Westboro Baptist Church has protested Stephanie three times in her life. None of that energy exists here.
• Stephanie wears her beaded trans pride earrings made in the style of Southeast Native American nations, and no one notices. "They just match my shirt."

One of the most practical topics in this episode, and one of the most reassuring:

• Gender-affirming medications are available over the counter at local pharmacies, no prescription required. Stephanie walked in, asked for estradiol 2mg tablets, and walked out with them.
• Progesterone is available through a mail-order pharmacy with no prescription.
• Costs are lower than paying out of pocket in the U.S., and significantly less than what many U.S. insurance plans now charge, if they cover transgender medications at all.
• Stephanie has not yet needed to see a physician for trans-related care, but trans women she knows locally report no issues accessing care.
• Specialist physicians in Guadalajara focus specifically on transgender healthcare.
• Most doctors speak English. Staff may not, but translation apps fill the gap.
• Lori's total knee replacement at a private hospital in Guadalajara, including the physician, hospital, and everything else, cost $12,000. The same procedure in the U.S. would easily exceed $100,000.

• Stephanie applied for her temporary residency visa at the Mexican consulate in Houston (appointments in San Antonio were unavailable for months). She brought bank statements, pension letters, and proof of income.
• Once approved at the consulate, you complete the process in Mexico at an immigration office through a process called a canje (C-A-N-J-E), often with help from a local facilitator.
• Stephanie and Lori are now in the third year of their three-year temporary residency (residente temporal), having completed their first year.
• After a total of five years, permanent residency (permanente) becomes available.
• For trans women: Stephanie's U.S. passport already reflects her female identity, which made the process smooth. She notes that the situation may be more complex for someone whose documentation was recently changed back.
• U.S.-plated vehicles can be driven in Mexico under a temporary import permit. For permanent residency, the vehicle must be imported and plated in Mexico, so many expats sell their U.S. vehicles before that point.
• Residency financial requirements changed after Stephanie applied. Working with a consulate or immigration attorney is strongly recommended.
• Appointment availability varies widely by consulate. Stephanie applied at multiple consulates simultaneously, including Houston, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.

• Stephanie and Lori live in Riberas del Pilar, an unincorporated lakeside community between San Antonio Tlaquepaque and Chapala Centro, about 150 yards from Lake Chapala.
• The area is within walking distance of a pharmacy, grocery stores (including Poncho's, an American-style market), restaurants, and an optometrist.
• Streets are cobblestone and can be uneven. Sidewalks exist but vary in height. Caution is advised, especially on hills.
• East-west travel is fairly flat. Everything slopes toward the lake.
• Public buses run throughout the area. Bicycles are common.
• Ajijic is a Pueblo Mágico, the Mexican government's designation for towns of significant cultural and historical value.
• The Lake Chapala area stretches from Jocotepec in the west to Chapala Centro in the east, with Ajijic and several smaller communities in between.
• Roughly 30,000 expats from approximately 40 countries live in the area. The majority are American or Canadian.

• Stephanie estimates their overall cost of living is about one-third of what it was in San Antonio, Texas.
• Their three-bedroom, one-story home with a small yard and gated parking for two cars rents for $1,200 per month.
• Annual water bill: approximately 15,000 pesos, or roughly $750 for the year.
• Monthly propane (used for cooking and hot water): approximately $30.
• Electric bill during peak summer with air conditioning: approximately $175 per month.
• American brand groceries cost more. Local and Mexican-made products are significantly cheaper.
• Fresh tortillas are inexpensive and everywhere. Local produce is abundant.
• Exchange rate at time of recording: approximately 17.4 pesos to 1 U.S. dollar.
• Some places are cash only. Tap-to-pay exists, but connectivity can be inconsistent.
• Gas is sold by the liter and is attendant-pumped. Tipping the attendant is customary.
• No Mexican income tax if your income is sourced outside Mexico. U.S. filers continue to file only U.S. taxes.

• The arts community is extraordinary. Stephanie served as assistant music director and played trombone in the pit for a community theater production of Something Rotten.
• There is a symphony orchestra, multiple choral programs (auditioned but inclusive), and several theater groups.
• Lori is an active member of Artists of Lake Chapala, which holds markets, shows, and studio visits.
• The community includes retired photographers from the New York fashion industry, as well as composers, choreographers, and musicians with major-label experience.
• A chain of locally owned French bakeries operates in the area, with a master chef from France.
• There is a Walmart and a Soriana (a Mexican grocery chain similar to Walmart) for everyday shopping.
• The community spirit is remarkable. When Lori came home from knee replacement surgery, a walker had been dropped off, and food was waiting.
• Stephanie describes it as the illusion of a 1950s small town, except it's real and it's inclusive.

• If your U.S. documentation reflects your correct identity, the immigration process should be straightforward.
• The adjective "trans" tends to drop away in daily life. Most local Mexicans simply address Stephanie as a woman.
• Tap water is not safe to drink. Most residents use filtered water delivery (a 20-liter garafon costs about 28 pesos, roughly $1.60).
• Ice at restaurants is generally made from filtered water and has been fine in Stephanie's experience.
• Fountain drinks, fast food, and certain American grocery staples are either unavailable locally or require a trip to Guadalajara.
• Cooking at altitude (approximately 5,000 feet) requires adjustments. Many expats follow Colorado State University's high-altitude recipes.
• Driving requires patience. Many streets are narrow cobblestone and effectively one-way due to parked cars.
• Language barrier is manageable. Most professionals speak English, and translation apps handle the rest.
• Bring patience for bureaucracy. Immigration appointments can be hard to get, and requirements can shift.

Find this episode wherever you listen to podcasts:

• wheredogaysretire.com
• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• iHeartRadio
• Amazon Music
• YouTube

Do you have questions for Stephanie about life as a trans woman in Ajijic or the Lake Chapala area? She has generously offered to respond. Reach out to Mark at [email protected] and he will pass your questions along.

Are you an LGBTQ+ expat living in a destination you love? We'd love to hear your story. The Where Do Gays Retire podcast is always looking for guests from affirming destinations around the world.

"I wish that she would learn to live her life out of love and not fear."

— Stephanie Byers

Living the Slow Life: Retiring in Cuenca, Ecuador with William Hutter

What if the secret to a fulfilling retirement was simply slowing down? William Hutter didn't plan to fall in love with Cuenca, Ecuador. He went to visit his husband's hometown and kept crying every time he had to leave. Eventually, he stopped leaving.

In this episode, William shares what life is really like in one of South America's most livable cities for LGBTQ+ expats. A therapist and educator by training, William brings both personal warmth and honest reflection to everything from the $235-a-year private health insurance to the night watchmen who bicycle through his neighborhood blowing a whistle. This is one of the most grounded, real-world conversations we've had on the show.

What We Cover:

* How William ended up in Cuenca and why it felt like home from the very first visit

* The city's geography, elevation, and why "eternal spring" is more than just a marketing phrase

* Cost of living in 2024, including what's changed as more expats have arrived

* Housing options, from renting in the city center to buying a two-bedroom condo for under $180,000

* The healthcare system, including $235-a-year private insurance that covers dental and vision, no questions asked about pre-existing conditions

* LGBTQ+ life, visibility, and safety, including holding hands in public and a brand new Pride parade

* Visa and residency options for retirees, with a look at the investment visa, marital visa, and path to citizenship

* Walkability, the 35-cent tram, and why Uber doesn't exist in Cuenca

* Food culture, from fresh markets and guinea pig to the best pistachio ice cream you'll ever have

* The honest trade-offs, including inconsistent sidewalks, occasional brownouts, and the need for flexibility

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to William Hutter and his unexpected path to Cuenca

02:13 - Why William cried every time he had to leave

04:02 - What most people get wrong about Cuenca

05:00 - Three words that describe Cuenca: relational, walkable, grounded

06:00 - Who thrives in Cuenca and who struggles

09:33 - Geography, elevation, and surrounding landscape

10:23 - Climate, green spaces, and year-round spring

12:19 - Humidity, weather patterns, and proximity to the coast

15:30 - Cost of living and how expat growth is changing prices

17:15 - Rental and purchase prices, city center vs. outside

19:18 - What a retired couple actually needs to live comfortably

22:05 - Utilities, internet, and no heating or air conditioning

25:16 - Housing market dynamics and neighborhood differences

26:02 - Language, Spanish proficiency, and William's honest advice

31:23 - Walkability, the tram, buses, and getting around without a car

35:33 - Terrain and sidewalk realities for seniors with mobility concerns

37:19 - Taxis, ride-share alternatives, and the cost of getting around

39:10 - LGBTQ+ community, visibility, and safety as a same-sex couple

45:21 - Pride events, gay bars, and expat community meetups

46:35 - Visa options, residency, and the path to Ecuadorian citizenship

48:44 - Taxes, private insurance, and the public healthcare system

51:46 - $235-a-year health coverage and pre-existing conditions

53:53 - Medications, same-day appointments, and what healthcare really costs

56:07 - Crime, gun laws, and neighborhood safety

59:19 - Night watchmen, safe streets, and walking home after dark

61:02 - Arts, culture, museums, and why Cuenca is Ecuador's arts capital

65:46 - Food culture, fresh markets, guinea pig, and dining costs

71:14 - Cafe culture, ice cream, and coffee without free refills

74:09 - Restaurant culture, tipping, and international cuisine

78:29 - How Cuenca compares to Mexico and Portugal

79:28 - One sentence: why retire in Cuenca?

Resources mentioned in this episode:

* Montanita, Ecuador, recommended by Brian Longstreth

* Duolingo for Spanish practice

* San Sebastian neighborhood in Cuenca, recommended for expat-friendly cafes and restaurants

* Ecuador expat communities on Facebook

The information shared in this episode reflects the personal experience of our guest and is not intended as legal, financial, or medical advice. Please consult qualified professionals before making any decisions about international relocation, visa applications, healthcare, or financial planning.

WHERE DO GAYS RETIRE PODCAST

Show Notes

The Frying Pan Is Now the Fire —

Where Do We Go From Here?

Hosted by Mark Goldstein| Solo Episode |April 2026

Sequel to: "Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire" (July 2025)

When Mark recorded "Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire" last July, he was mostly thinking about political instability in other countries. He wasn't quite expecting the frying pan itself to turn up the heat this dramatically right here at home.

In this solo follow-up episode, Mark takes a calm, clear-eyed look at where things actually stand in the United States right now for LGBTQ+ retirees — and more importantly, what your real options are. This is not a political commentary. It is not about panic. It is exactly what this podcast has always been: practical, honest information to help you make informed decisions about where to spend your golden years, openly, safely, and fabulously.

In This Episode

• What NSPM-7 actually says — and what it doesn't say — about our community
• Why listener numbers are growing, and what that tells us about where our community is right now
• The case for staying: U.S. states with the strongest constitutional and legal protections
• The case for going: why more LGBTQ+ retirees are seriously looking abroad
• The honest complications of international living — Medicare, visas, family distance
• Five questions to help you figure out where you stand
• Mark's personal story — Fort Collins, Peter, and the 1982 Málaga plane crash
• Resources to stay informed and take action

U.S. States With Strong LGBTQ+ Legal Protections — Featured in This Episode

Mark highlights states where same-sex marriage rights are protected at the state constitutional level or through strong statutory protections — states where your rights would remain intact even if the federal picture changes.

Constitutional protection states:

• New York — equal protection enshrined in state constitution (2024); marriage equality since 2011
• California — right to marry enshrined as a fundamental right in state constitution (2024)
• Colorado — constitutional ban removed by voters (2024) + inclusive statutory definition enacted (2025)
• New Mexico — state Supreme Court ruled marriage equality required under state constitution (2013); codified by unanimous legislative vote (2019)
• Nevada — marriage equality positively enshrined in state constitution (2020) — no episode yet, but worth watching!

Strong statutory protection states are also mentioned:

• Massachusetts — first state to legalize same-sex marriage (2004); no ban
• Vermont — civil unions pioneer (2000); no ban
• Rhode Island, Washington State, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, Oregon — all with no dormant bans

International Destinations Mentioned in This Episode

• Spain — Torremolinos, Sitges, Malaga, Costa del Sol
• Portugal — Algarve, Cascais
• Mexico — Ajijic, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico City, Queretaro
• France, Netherlands, Costa Rica

For our full archive of international destination episodes, see the Episode Resource Guide linked in the show notes for this episode.

LGBTQ+ Retirement Communities Mentioned

• Living Out — Palm Springs, California | livingout.com
• Fountain Grove Lodge — Santa Rosa, California

Referenced Episode

"Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire — Why the Political Climate Matters for LGBTQ+ Retirees"

Originally aired July 2, 2025. Available in the podcast archive at wheredogaysretire.com.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

U.S. Legal & Advocacy:

• ACLU — aclu.org
• Lambda Legal — lambdalegal.org
• Freedom for All Americans — freedomforallamericans.org
• Movement Advancement Project (state-by-state tracker) — lgbtmap.org

International Research:

• ILGA World — global LGBTQ+ rights by country — ilga.org
• International Living — Global Retirement Index — internationalliving.com
• Social Security abroad — ssa.gov/international

Episode Resource Guide

Download the companion Episode Resource Guide for this episode — a curated list of our top international destination episodes and our top U.S. protective state episodes, organized and ranked by downloads.

Available at wheredogaysretire.com/fryingpan2

Connect With Mark & the Community

• Facebook: Where Do Gays Retire — facebook.com/groups/wheredogaysretire
• Facebook: Gay Men 60 and Better (27,700+ members) — facebook.com/groups/gaymen60andbetter
• Email Mark — [email protected]
• Schedule a call with Mark — savvycal.com/Markscalendar
• Full episode archive — wheredogaysretire.com

Support the Podcast

If you enjoy the Where Do Gays Retire podcast, please subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs it. You can also support the show by buying Mark a coffee at wheredogaysretire.com — each $5 coffee helps keep the podcast going.

"Retirement is not just about warm weather.

It is about living openly, safely, and fabulously,

wherever in the world that may be for you."

— Mark Goldstein, Where Do Gays Retire

Episode Resource Guide: Where to Retire — International & U.S. Destinations

Companion resource to: "The Frying Pan Is Now the Fire — Where Do We Go From Here?"

Whether you are thinking about staying in the United States or exploring a life abroad, this guide brings together the most-listened-to episodes from the Where Do Gays Retire podcast archive. U.S. episodes are curated to include only states where LGBTQ+ legal protections are strong and where same-sex marriage would remain protected even in the absence of a federal ruling. All episodes are available wherever you listen to podcasts, or at wheredogaysretire.com.

These are the international episodes your fellow listeners have returned to most. Spain leads by a wide margin, appearing seven times in the top fifteen.

1. Exploring Retirement in Spain: Valencia vs. Malaga for LGBTQ Expats with Dave Piccolo, Jesus Bartoli and Steve Aronberg
2. Ajijic, Mexico: A Vibrant LGBTQ+ Haven Revisited with Steve Cross and Harold Watts
3. Sitges vs. Torremolinos, Spain With Richard Jasicki and Leo Boni
4. Malta, with Eric Tenin and Michael Salone
5. Retire in Style: Why Nice, France is the Ultimate LGBTQ Destination With Jameson Farn
6. Two Countries, One Community: LGBTQ+ Retirement Insights from Spain and Portugal with Bruce Joffe and Russ Warren
7. Athens, Greece with Steve Gantzos and Ken Cook
8. Nerja, Spain: A Mediterranean Hideaway with Richard Carnaby
9. Amsterdam, The Netherlands with Jeremy Bierbach
10. Oloron Sainte-Marie, France with Mykle Flatley
11. Don't Just Visit — Live! Americans Moving To Spain with Christopher Hughey
12. Madrid, Spain with Renato Padilla
13. From the Heart of Gran Canaria — Raquel Rojas on LGBTQ+ Life and Island Living
14. Embracing Retirement: Waldron McGinnis's Journey to Courtown, Ireland
15. Weather, Wine, and Wonder: Retirement Life in Madeira With Paul Corning and Kevin McKay

Key destinations in the archive: Spain (Valencia, Malaga, Sitges, Torremolinos, Nerja, Madrid, Gran Canaria) • Mexico (Ajijic, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico City, Oaxaca, San Miguel de Allende) • France (Nice, Oloron Sainte-Marie, Paris, Dordogne) • Portugal (Lisbon, Cascais, Algarve, Braga, Tavira, Porto, Ericeira, Madeira) • Greece, Netherlands, Malta, Ireland, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, Costa Rica, Thailand, Ecuador, Uruguay

These episodes cover states where same-sex marriage rights are protected at the constitutional level or through strong statutory protections — states where your rights would remain intact even if the federal picture changes.

⭐ Note: Nevada has the strongest constitutional protection of any state — marriage equality is positively enshrined in its state constitution. A Nevada episode is not yet in the archive!

———

CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION STATES

California — Right to marry enshrined as a fundamental right in the state constitution (2024)

• Inside Living Out: The LGBTQ Community That Feels Like Family — With Loren Ostrow
• Finding Your Gay Retirement Paradise: Fountain Grove Lodge with Chuck Finch & Ed Cambron
• Palm Springs, CA with Robyn Meltzer and Susan Brennan
• Cathedral City, California With Keith Coleman
• Sacramento, California with Greg Wine
• San Diego With Stephen Keiley

New Mexico — State constitution requires marriage equality (Griego v. Oliver, 2013); codified by unanimous legislative vote (2019)

• Albuquerque, New Mexico with Pamm Meyers
• Choosing Your Desert Oasis: Albuquerque, NM vs. Tucson, AZ for LGBTQ+ Retirees with Pamm Meyers and Jeff Schuchart
• Las Cruces, New Mexico with Michael Stracener
• Santa Fe, New Mexico With Perry MacKrill

New York — Equal protection enshrined in state constitution (2024); marriage equality since 2011

• Ithaca, New York with Kurt Becker
• Syracuse, New York With Scott Hier

Colorado — Constitutional ban removed by voters (2024); inclusive statutory definition enacted (2025)

• Fort Collins Snapshot: A Vibrant Life for LGBTQ+ Retirees — City Snapshot Series with Mark Goldstein
• Finding Home in Fort Collins: LGBTQ+ Retirement with Patty and Pat

Hawaii — Constitutional ban removed by voters (2024)

• Hilo, Hawaii with Richard Ostreicher and Bob Sleasman

———

STRONG STATUTORY PROTECTION STATES

No dormant ban — strong protections through legislation or court ruling

Washington State

• Discover Why Vancouver, WA is a Top Retirement Spot for LGBTQ+ Community — With Gary Beagle
• Seattle, Washington with Steven Chapman

Rhode Island

• Tim McCormick's Guide to Living Your Best Life in Providence, Rhode Island

New Jersey

• Asbury Park, New Jersey With Brent Winborn
• Lambertville, NJ and New Hope PA with Mark McNease

Maryland / DC

• Salisbury, Maryland with Mark DeLancey
• National Capital Region — DC, Maryland, Virginia with Jim Hansen

Illinois

• Chicago, Illinois With Marc Goldberg

Massachusetts — First state to legalize same-sex marriage (2004)

• Provincetown, Massachusetts With Elizabeth G. Brooke
• Falmouth, Massachusetts With Tom von Zabern

Vermont — Civil unions pioneer (2000)

• Brattleboro, Vermont With Scott Heller

Oregon

• Portland, Oregon with Paul Iarrobino

1. Living the Dream: Inside Friendship Village's LGBTQ-Friendly Community With Joe Connelly and Terry Pochert
2. Is Marriage Equality in Peril? Evan Wolfson Explains
3. Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire — Why the Political Climate Matters for LGBTQ+ Retirees
4. The Great Walkability Debate — Can You Retire Without a Car?
5. Where to Find Your Retirement Joy: 10 Questions to Ask! with Mark Goldstein & Michael AI

U.S. Legal & Advocacy

• ACLU — aclu.org
• Lambda Legal — lambdalegal.org
• Freedom for All Americans — freedomforallamericans.org
• Movement Advancement Project (state-by-state tracker) — mapresearch.org

International Research

• ILGA World (global LGBTQ+ rights by country) — ilga.org
• International Living (Global Retirement Index) — internationalliving.com
• Social Security abroad — ssa.gov/international

Connect With Mark & the Community

• Facebook: Where Do Gays Retire
• Facebook: Gay Men 60 and Better (27,700+ members)
• Email: [email protected]
• Schedule a call: savvycal.com/Markscalendar
• Full episode archive: wheredogaysretire.com

"Retirement is not just about warm weather. It is about living openly, safely, and fabulously, wherever in the world that may be for you."

— Mark Goldstein, Where Do Gays Retire

🎙️ Where Do Gays Retire Podcast

wheredogaysretire.com

Gay Retirement in Querétaro, Mexico: Real Costs, Healthcare, Visas & LGBTQ+ Life

Featuring Bryan Hutson & Juan Gomar •Hosted by Mark Goldstein

Most people think of Puerto Vallarta or San Miguel de Allende when they imagine retiring in Mexico. Bryan Hutson and Juan Gomar — the gay couple behind boutique candle brand Casa Beige — chose something different: Querétaro, a modern, walkable, affordable city in Mexico's highlands that almost no one in the LGBTQ+ retirement conversation is talking about yet.

In this episode, they share what it's really like to live there — real costs, healthcare experiences, how they got their residency, and what the gay community is actually like on the ground.

🎯 What You'll Learn

• Why Querétaro beats tourist towns on price — and why that matters for expats
• What a doctor visit, specialist, and prescriptions actually cost out of pocket
• How Bryan and Juan got their 4-year residency through a COVID-era regularization program — and why you should still hire a facilitator
• The rental screening process (poliza juridica) that surprises most Americans
• What the LGBTQ+ scene looks like: community centers, gay bars, Pride parades, and social life
• How important Spanish really is — and what happens if you only speak English
• The senior discount card (60+) that gets you free museum entry and medical discounts across Mexico
• Why Querétaro is a great fit for some people — and a poor fit for others

🌺 About the Guests

Bryan Hutson has over 40 years of experience in horticulture, retail leadership, landscape design, and nonprofit arts. Juan Gomar is an accomplished floral and event designer originally from Guatemala, known for bold, expressive work with high-end clients in Dallas. Together, they founded Casa Beige, a boutique soy candle and lifestyle brand inspired by Mexican culture and memory, now based in the hills of Tejada outside Querétaro's city center.

💡 Key Takeaways

• Querétaro is driven by business and manufacturing investment — not tourism. That keeps prices real.
• Grocery run for two with meat and fish: roughly 2,000–3,000 pesos ($125–$190 USD)
• Internet: ~$50–60/month. Trash pickup: free, daily except Sundays.
• Specialist visit in the public system: as low as 100 pesos (~$6). Private specialist with tests and medication: around $60.
• Most common medications — including blood pressure meds — are available over the counter.
• Uber to the city center: about $2–3. Buses: 10 pesos (50 cents).
• The gay community is active and welcoming — even in a city known for being Catholic and conservative.
• Their single strongest advice: hire a local facilitator for residency. Do not try to navigate it alone.

🎧 Listen & Watch

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and all major platforms. Visit wheredogaysretire.com to listen and explore every destination episode

💬 Stay Connected

• Email: [email protected]
• Website: wheredogaysretire.com
• Support the show: buymeacoffee.com/wheregaysretire

If this episode helped you, please share it with someone thinking about retiring abroad. It really does make a difference.

The information shared in this episode reflects the personal experiences of our guests and is for general informational purposes only. Visa rules, healthcare policies, and costs change frequently. Please consult qualified legal, medical, immigration, and financial professionals before making any decisions about retiring or living abroad.