Mark Vernon is a former priest turned psychotherapist who has spent the last 30 years exploring one central question: how do we find meaning in a secular age?

After a crisis of faith pulled him away from the Church’s inner sanctum in his youth, Mark turned to Plato and Jung in pursuit of a deeper understanding of purpose, connection, and the soul. Today, his writing bridges ancient philosophy, religion, and modern psychology, a powerful triad he also applies to his work as a therapist.

In this episode, we discuss: 

✦  The overwhelm of conflicting meanings and remembering the sacred

✦  The spiritual thread connecting Dante, William Blake, and Jesus

✦  How wonder helps us access the divine

✦  Why psychotherapy is a path for ‘spiritual intelligence’

Mark's work invites us into the depths of wonder and spirituality as a necessity for the soul.

Chapters

0:00 Intro: The modern crisis of meaning

5:08 Psychotherapy and the vertical dimension of life

11:25 The cloud of unknowing and mystical experiences

18:19 Kairos time: Moments of spiritual significance

23:01 William Blake on joy and eternity

27:04 Death as a transcendent and transformative experience

33:08 Early Christianity's deeper mysteries and meanings

40:44 Humility as an expansive spiritual virtue

50:56 Owen Barfield and the evolution of consciousness

57:35 Ontological shocks and transformative experiences

1:02:41 Outro: The importance of sacred experiences

Follow Mark:

Website: https://www.markvernon.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/platospodcasts/?hl=en-gb 

X: https://x.com/platospodcasts 

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PlatosPodcasts 

Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination: https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/awake/ 

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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661 

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What if the cracks in our world aren't flaws, but thresholds into the unknown? In this episode of Wonderstruck, we sit with philosopher, poet, and playful trickster Bayo Akomolafe. Bayo's vision invites us to linger in mystery rather than rush to solutions. He takes us into the unfolding terrain of post-activism, where possibility, not certainty, becomes our guide.

In this conversation, we explore:

✦ How physics becomes philosophy… and poetry offers a new way of seeing

✦ How AI unsettles our ideas of consciousness and what it means to be human

✦ His vision of an “autistic politics,” shaped by those who move differently through the world

✦ The role of sanctuary and sacred spaces in times of upheaval

This is less a conversation of answers than of reimagining; an invitation to pause, to listen otherwise, and to encounter the mystery shimmering inside the fractures of our time. In these transformational times, Bayo is a rare and radical voice, urging us to reimagine how we see the world.

This episode of Wonderstruck invites you into that space. 

Chapters

0:00 Introduction

5:31 Autistic perception and expanded awareness

12:30 AI is redefining intelligence

18:58 The Ship of Theseus and posthumanism

25:50 A moment of wonder at the moon

40:00 Second sound and postactivism 

55:38 Liminality and the Cracks

1:06:50 Death, Eshu and Jesus as trickster 

1:14:51 Making sanctuary and examining life's glitches

Follow Bayo:

Website: https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bayoakomolafe/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bayoakomolafeampersand 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bayo.akomolafe/

Emergence Network: https://www.emergencenetwork.org/ 

Follow Wonderstruck:

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wonderstruckpod

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661 

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fungi are everywhere. Under our feet, in our food, in our medicines. Yet they remain one of the most overlooked kingdoms of life. 

In this episode of Wonderstruck, we speak to mycologist Giuliana Furci, a self-taught champion for fungi and founder of the first NGO in the world dedicated to fungal conservation, the Fungi Foundation. She reveals how mushrooms shape ecosystems, inspire culture, and hold ancient knowledge. They are alchemists of decay, transforming death and toxins into the fertile ground of new life. From sacred candlelit ceremonies to songs created with a cloud forest that has rights, Giuliana’s stories may change how you see the world forever.

We explore:

• How fungi sustain life on Earth and make our survival possible
• Documenting indigenous relationships with fungi, from birth control to healing
• The Song of the Cedars with Robert Macfarlane, Cosmo Sheldrake, César Rodríguez-Garavito 
• Sacred mushrooms, Mazatec culture and Maria Sabina
• Why protecting fungi may shape the future of our planet

Giuliana’s story is a testament to what can happen when we follow our calling and, in the words of Giuliana's mother, that something doesn't have to be done in order for us to do it! 

Chapters: 

0:00 Intro: A fateful encounter with fungi

5:56 Mycology 101: Fungi's role in life on Earth

9:37 Studying fungi with experience and intuition

15:07 Don Pfister’s invitation to Harvard

23:13 The Song of the Cedars and forest rights

30:13 Documenting indigenous relationships with fungi

37:38 Surprising fungal uses across cultures

41:27 Fungi communication and sacred ceremonies

47:49 National Geographic award and impact

Follow Giuliana: 

Website: https://giulianafurci.com/

Instagram: @giulifungi

Fungi Foundation https://www.ffungi.org/

LET THINGS ROT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjWh1TXthM

Flora, Fauna, Funga Documentary National Geographic Society: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DsnWcWeyoI

The Song of the Cedar by Cosmo Sheldrake and Robert Macfarlane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH_timp2S3E&list=RDHH_timp2S3E&start_radio=1

Is a River Alive? by Robert Macfarlane: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455147/is-a-river-alive-by-macfarlane-robert/9780241624814

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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A lot of what Jeffrey Kripal writes about and explores doesn’t fit into our current worldview. A professor at Rice University, where he holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought, Jeff specializes in extreme religious experiences, a new comparativism in the study of religion, the paranormal, and the extraordinary dimensions of human existence. He helped create the groundbreaking GEM Program (Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism) and serves on the board of the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California.

From UFOs/UAPs to near-death experiences, psi phenomena, and mystical visitations, Jeff’s work challenges us to rethink reality itself. As he puts it, “The paranormal is trying to get our attention. Reality is not what we think it is.” His 13 books, including Authors of the Impossible, Mutants and Mystics, The Flip, How to Think Impossibly, and the upcoming three-volume set The Super Story, invite readers to explore the limits of current-day thought and the vast potential of the unknown.

In this conversation, we dive into grief, humor, and the transcendent. Jeff suggests that laughter can help us step outside our worldview, grief can open us to the impossible, and humanity’s tendency to dismiss the extraordinary may actually conceal profound truths. With meaningful observations like “Certainty is a big problem” and “Reality is transcending itself,” Jeff invites us to embrace the mysteries that defy explanation and to see the impossible as a gateway to deeper understanding.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Reality is not what we think

5:31 Psychoanalysis and spiritual experiences

13:17 John Mack's UFO research at Harvard

18:06 The impossible and expanding worldviews

24:04 Consciousness: brain vs. perception models

29:31 Grief, humor and paranormal experiences

36:44 UFOs as a "wedge issue" in science

43:17 Historical perspectives on UFO phenomena

50:46 Wonder, awe and the "impossible"

About Wonderstruck:

The Wonderstruck Podcast with Elizabeth Rovere is a deep yet lighthearted exploration of the mystical, metaphysical, transcendent, transformative, esoteric, and ecstatic aspects of human experience. It bridges science, spirituality, and philosophy through engaging conversations with scientists, scholars, experts, and experiencers.

In this season of the Wonderstruck Podcast, we delve into the profound mysteries of existence, exploring the depths of human consciousness, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of life. Through engaging conversations with professors, neuroscientists, comedians, healers, poets, psychotherapists, group therapists, philosophers, activists, and authors,we invite listeners to challenge conventional thinking and embrace a multidimensional understanding of reality.

Wonderstruck Links:

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What if pain wasn’t just a problem to fix, but a portal to something deeper?

Diane Goldner didn’t set out to become a healer. As an investigative journalist writing for The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, she approached energy healing with the sharp eye of a skeptic, ready to expose what didn’t hold up. But instead, she found something that flipped her world upside down. Today, she’s an internationally recognized healer and medical intuitive, helping people unlock their body’s hidden wisdom in ways the medical field could learn from.

In this episode, Diane shares the story of her awakening into the world of subtle energy — and how she now helps others access the hidden intelligence of the body. We talk about the surprising signals our pain carries, what it means to receive shaktipat, and why the boundary between science and mysticism may not be a boundary at all.

This is a conversation about seeing differently — about tuning in to what lies just beneath the surface, and discovering that healing might be less about fixing, and more about remembering who we really are.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Reality is more mutable than we realize

5:06 Diane's journey from skeptic to energy healer

10:27 What is energy healing and subtle energy?

15:45 Examples of energy healing in action

26:26 How Diane perceives energy during healings

32:35 The relationship between science and spirituality

38:41 Princeton's research on mind-matter interaction

46:44 Why energy healing sometimes doesn't work

54:39 The role of love in the healing process

1:04:23 Chakras and their role in energy healing

1:14:17 Diane's experiences with spiritual figures

1:16:25 How changing consciousness changes reality

1:20:59 Closing thoughts on imagination and perception

About Wonderstruck:

The Wonderstruck Podcast with Elizabeth Rovere is a deep yet lighthearted exploration of the mystical, metaphysical, transcendent, transformative, esoteric, and ecstatic aspects of human experience. It bridges science, spirituality, and philosophy through engaging conversations with scientists, scholars, experts, and experiencers.

In this season of the Wonderstruck Podcast, we delve into the profound mysteries of existence, exploring the depths of human consciousness, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of life. Through engaging conversations with professors, neuroscientists, comedians, healers, poets, psychotherapists, group therapists, philosophers, activists, and authors,we invite listeners to challenge conventional thinking and embrace a multidimensional understanding of reality.

Wonderstruck Links:

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Diane's Books:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Diane-Goldner/author/B001K8F9G6

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

John Cleese and Dr. Iain McGilchrist are good friends who share a deep appreciation for the power of humor and a fascination with neuroscience and consciousness. McGilchrist recalls falling asleep laughing at an episode of Fawlty Towers—only to wake up the next morning still laughing.

Cleese has spent a lifetime using humor not just to entertain but to challenge rigid thinking, expose absurdities, and reveal truths hiding in plain sight. McGilchrist, a psychiatrist, philosopher, and neuroscientist, has transformed our understanding of the mind, particularly how modern culture leans too heavily on the left hemisphere’s need for certainty—often at the expense of creativity, nuance, and vision.

In this special episode of Wonderstruck, co-hosts Elizabeth Rovere and Mary Attwood bring us a spirited “quadrologue” exploring humor, creativity, and consciousness. Cleese reflects on how comedy topples hierarchies, sharpens perception, and fosters resilience, while McGilchrist explains why humor itself depends on the brain’s ability to shift perspectives—something the right hemisphere thrives on.

Together, they unpack how laughter, play, and spontaneity expand our ways of thinking, helping us loosen up in a world that often takes itself far too seriously.

As Cleese puts it: "If humor isn’t woven into the fabric of the cosmos, I need to know why not."

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Humor and consciousness

5:07 Humor as a democratizing force

10:23 Criticism and self-laughter in comedy

15:26 Humor's role in consciousness and creativity

20:42 Theory of mind and humor

26:56 Free will and determinism debate

32:45 Unlearning and the importance of humor

38:55 Creativity, relaxation, and uncertainty

44:40 Introversion and never being bored

48:38 Art, consciousness, and cosmic values

About Wonderstruck:

The Wonderstruck Podcast with Elizabeth Rovere is a deep yet lighthearted exploration of the mystical, metaphysical, transcendent, transformative, esoteric, and ecstatic aspects of human experience. It bridges science, spirituality, and philosophy through engaging conversations with scientists, scholars, experts, and experiencers.

In this season of the Wonderstruck Podcast, we delve into the profound mysteries of existence, exploring the depths of human consciousness, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of life. Through engaging conversations with professors, neuroscientists, comedians, healers, poets, psychotherapists, group therapists, philosophers, activists, and authors,we invite listeners to challenge conventional thinking and embrace a multidimensional understanding of reality.

Wonderstruck Links:

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A lot of what Dr. Alex Gomez-Marin explores challenges the boundaries of traditional science. A physicist and neuroscientist, Alex leads the Behavior of Organisms Laboratory at the Instituto de Neurociencias in Alicante, Spain, and serves as the director of the Pari Center in Italy. His groundbreaking work spans neuroscience, physics, and the study of consciousness, with a focus on what he calls “the edges of consciousness.”

In this episode, Elizabeth joins Alex for a mind-expanding conversation about the limits of science as it’s traditionally understood. As Alex highlights, “What is funded is what gets studied,” meaning that the edges of consciousness are often dismissed as fringe and ignored by mainstream science. But materialism is not the only game in town—"science is far more than materialism and reductionism."

From his transformative Near-Death Experience (NDE) to his pioneering research on phenomena beyond the five senses, Alex bridges science, spirituality, and the humanities. He explains the receiver model of consciousness, which suggests that the brain functions more like an antenna than a generator, and explores phenomena such as remote viewing and telepathy, pushing the boundaries of what mainstream science considers possible.

Together, they discuss Alex's neuroscience research on blind individuals who “see” with their hearts called E.O.V., telepathy as the blending of thought and knowing, and the concept of reality as an evolving perception. Alex’s unique perspective invites us to question everything and embrace the unknown, reminding us that the cracks in the matrix may reveal that reality is far richer than we ever imagined.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Near-death experience and neuroscience

5:07 The Pari Center and exploring consciousness

10:04 Sharing a profound near-death experience

16:59 Science beyond materialism and reductionism

28:24 Different philosophical approaches to consciousness

34:44 The need for listening in scientific discourse

40:50 Studying extraocular vision scientifically

47:40 Using science to validate extraordinary experiences

51:52 Outro: Exploring the edges of consciousness

About Wonderstruck:

The Wonderstruck Podcast with Elizabeth Rovere is a deep yet lighthearted exploration of the mystical, metaphysical, transcendent, transformative, esoteric, and ecstatic aspects of human experience. It bridges science, spirituality, and philosophy through engaging conversations with scientists, scholars, experts, and experiencers.

In this season of the Wonderstruck Podcast, we delve into the profound mysteries of existence, exploring the depths of human consciousness, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of life. Through engaging conversations with professors, neuroscientists, comedians, healers, poets, psychotherapists, group therapists, philosophers, activists, and authors,we invite listeners to challenge conventional thinking and embrace a multidimensional understanding of reality.

Wonderstruck Links:

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Vandana Shiva is not just an activist, she is a visionary, a force of nature, and a firebrand for a world in crisis.

She doesn’t merely challenge the mechanistic view of life; she dismantles it with the precision of a physicist and the passion of a poet. In its place, she offers something far more powerful: a universe alive with intelligence, diversity, and self-organization. This is a cosmos where everything pulses with meaning.

A scientist and warrior for the Earth, Vandana bridges worlds that many see as separate such as quantum physics and ancient wisdom, or science and spirit. Her message is meaningful: matter is not inert; it is consciousness in motion. From the sacred cycle of soil, food, and humanity to the concepts of autopoiesis, and symbiosis she reveals the elegant, often invisible web that connects us all.

She warns against the dangerous illusion that nature is a machine to be manipulated. In reality, the Earth is a living system, responsive and intelligent, and when we exploit it as if it were lifeless, we create imbalance, and what she calls the metabolic disorder of Gaia. Climate change, in her view, is not just an environmental crisis, rather, it is a profound disruption of life’s symphony, a call to return to harmony before it is too late.

But Vandana is not here to preach despair; she is here to ignite transformation. She speaks of joy as an act of resistance, humility as the gateway to true wisdom, and creativity as the very essence of life. The same Shakti, the regenerative power that makes trees grow, rivers flow, and galaxies spin, exists within us, and is inexhaustible and eternal.

In this conversation, Vandana invites us to awaken not just to the urgency of the moment but to the deeper truth of our existence. We are not separate from nature; we are nature. And when we embrace this reality, we don’t just sustain the world, we help it flourish. With unwavering courage, wisdom, and love, she calls us to step into a regenerative future, where we become stewards, co-creators, and protectors of the great, living Earth that carries us all.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro: Quantum physics and healing the planet

5:49 Living in consciousness vs. mechanistic thinking

11:00 Principles of quantum thinking in everyday life

16:19 Earth University: Nature as the teacher

22:25 Seed freedom and biodiversity preservation

28:01 Finding joy in interconnection and service

33:12 Humility and elevated consciousness

36:43 Quantum physics and divinity

40:51 Story of women's strength from nature

About Wonderstruck:

The Wonderstruck Podcast with Elizabeth Rovere is a deep yet lighthearted exploration of the mystical, metaphysical, transcendent, transformative, esoteric, and ecstatic aspects of human experience. It bridges science, spirituality, and philosophy through engaging conversations with scientists, scholars, experts, and experiencers.

In this season of the Wonderstruck Podcast, we delve into the profound mysteries of existence, exploring the depths of human consciousness, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of life. Through engaging conversations with professors, neuroscientists, comedians, healers, poets, psychotherapists, group therapists, philosophers, activists, and authors,we invite listeners to challenge conventional thinking and embrace a multidimensional understanding of reality.

Wonderstruck Links:

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wonderstruck/id1671879661

https://open.spotify.com/show/6fS5boWGwYTShddG7SKlVw

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For Wonderstruck's Season 2 finale, host Elizabeth Rovere introduces a special conversation between Zentatsu Richard Baker Roshi, one of Zen's leading voices, and his Dharma Successor and Dharma Sangha colleague Tatsudo Nicole Baden Roshi. The mentor-protégé duo display their compassion and respect for one another while introducing vital ideas about navigating existence, seeking connection, and recalibrating perception.

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://www.facebook.com/wonderstruckpod

https://www.dharma-sangha.de

https://www.dharmasangha.org

https://www.instagram.com/zendharmasangha/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/crestonemountainzen/

https://www.facebook.com/zendharmasangha

https://www.facebook.com/dharmasanghacrestone

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Healer, author and world-renowned qigong master Robert Peng traces his singular journey and shares stories about the teacher that changed his life. Recovering from a childhood illness during the Chinese Cultural Revolution, Peng started apprenticing with a legendary monk named Xiao Yao. Having witnessed and learned from his master’s extraordinary, and seemingly supernatural powers, Peng himself developed his own remarkable capabilities, feats of strength and healing which many would consider impossible. He did it, he says, by cultivating his qi. In a revealing conversation recorded last summer at Wonderstruck’s Symposium on Wisdom and Pedagogy in Guainville, France, host Elizabeth Rovere sat down with Peng to explore what qi really is, what it has to do with the energy centers of Chinese Medicine, and how we can cultivate our own. 

https://wonderstruck.org

https://www.instagram.com/wonderstruckpod/

https://www.youtube.com/@wonderstruckpod

https://www.facebook.com/wonderstruckpod

https://www.robertpeng.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.