XChateau Wine Podcast

Nearly two decades after filming Somm, Jason Wise, Chief Creative Officer of Somm TV and Director of the Somm movies, has a deep view of wine in the media.  Jason shares his perspective on what types of media moves the needle, how to get involved as a brand, the ever changing landscape of media itself. 

Detailed Show Notes: 

Update from the last 4 years: filming tons of food & wine content around the world, a couple theatrical releases

Somm TV: video streaming services, partners w/ wineries and wine regions, Jason founded it to not have to ask permission to film stories

• A lot of people find Somm TV from YouTube

Wine industry evolution (2010-2026): a lot more grapes and too much wine; beginner wine content no longer needed; market needs to sort a few things out; tariffs had huge impact on American wineries (some wineries were 20% Canada)

Wine helps create more connection and conversation

Media filming rights have changed a lot, used to have a pay a place to film, now they are happy to be a part of it

Sideways worked because it was unexpected and was done on its own terms

Streaming wars haven’t helped media gain influence, only a few shows that have had an impact (e.g. - Game of Thrones, White Lotus); there’s so much content, it’s hard to break through, now niche is king

• Niche segments sometimes just talk to their niche, don’t bring in new audiences
• Documentaries tell stores people didn’t know existed
• Netflix used to license shows, now they want to own everything, leads to less originality, just make what’s worked before
• YouTube feeds media, creators build a following, then produce more standard media

Wine industry’s role in the media

• Nobody wants to watch commercials
• Hard to push media to do what you want it to do
• Wine should be the drink to push in PR (e.g. - Chateau Angelus in James Bond films has had an impact)
• Wine cameos in movies can build awareness

Winery engagement with media

• Influencers are like “maintenance,” believes their influence is waning
• Get the product in TV shows / movies
• Need the “magic” in the bottle, be known for something (e.g. - Taylor Swift and Sancerre, fans figured it out)

Celebrity helps bring a platform if the product had good product-market fit (e.g. - Aveline and Cameron Diaz)

Media effectiveness goes in cycle, what works changes over time and circles back; need to try 10 things for 1 to work

Believes regional marketing is critical

Podcasts are part of people’s everyday routine and movies stick with you, TV is like the “bulk wine” of media

Wineries should put budget towards media, spread the money around

Many wineries have exited sponsorships and are losing consumer awareness

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As the wine world stumbles through difficult times (in early 2026), Karen MacNeil, author of The Wine Bible and co-founder of Come Over October, believes part of the disconnect stems from time.  The fastness of the modern, social media fueled world and the slowness of wine.  Her solution is to focus the narrative of wine with well-being and wine’s long-standing role as a beverage that brings people together.  

Detailed Show Notes: 

Karen’s background: author of The Wine Bible, writer, speaker, teacher

Worried that a change in culture, to a faster one with social media (took off in 2012 when Facebook hit 1B active users and >50% of the population had smart phones), has left wine, a slower product, behind

• White wine’s appeal may be partly that it implies fastness
• Wine is slower to create (can take 3-5 years) and to consume (high acid, tannins for reds)

Larger selection of beverages may also be competing for wine’s share, including functional beverages that are marketed as “mindful”

Wrote an article, “Is wine really in the alcohol business?” on how wine is more than alcohol, but threaded in the culture of food, history, religion, and art

Believes wine should promote the notion of wellbeing vs health, which includes better relationships from sharing wine with people

Started Come Over October w/ Gino Colangelo and Kimberly Charles, PR professionals

• 2025: reached 2.9B media impressions, had 1,400 retail store promotions, raised $250k
• Sister campaign is Share and Pair Sundays - to go beyond October, involve food, and help engage more restaurants
• All campaigns need a time, a reason, and a behavior
• Seneca Lake Wine Trail doing Share and Pair Sundays
• Texas Wine Country doing “Come Over October Y’all”
• Most impactful event was an interview with Pink and sports figures, showing wine connects people across industries

The wine industry will need to invest to get more people involved, the “Got Milk” campaign spent $23M in the first year

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The on-premise side of wine analytics has traditionally been a black hole, not covered by other data services.  Somm.ai changed that when they launched in 2021, now covering ~100k on-premise accounts in the US alone.  The richness of data allows Somm.ai to help their clients benchmark, prospect for new accounts, and so much more.  Jeremy Hart, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Somm.ai, explains how it is more manpower vs a platform to accelerate on-premise sales.  

Detailed Show Notes: 

Jeremy’s background: restaurants, wholesale, importing

TX became a major wine market during ‘08 Global Financial Crisis; it took the allocations from NY and CA

Somm.ai founding: end of 2019 was originally an app for people to find restaurants with wines they wanted to drink; during the pandemic (2020) pivoted to turning restaurant wine lists into retail shops (sold ~$700k of wine); did some smart menus; 2021 launched current iteration of on-premise sales analytics

• Categorizes restaurants, bars, & hotels in US (100k accounts), Canada, Europe (6 countries, Germany largest w/ 3k accounts), Singapore; data updated every 2 weeks
• Jackson Family is longest client - w/ NBA partnership, Somm.ai developed target lists around NBA stadiums to sell into
• ~70 clients of all sizes (many large suppliers, e.g. - Terlato, Vintus, Concha y Toro, wholesalers, importers)

General use cases include: 

• Benchmarking vs peers (accounts, placements)
• Prospecting and lead generation (can see accounts that other distributors cover)
• Identify brand extensions
• Help with pricing
• Identifying sales pitches for national accounts

ROI

• Some clients have moved up a lot in benchmarking ranks
• Save money on travel, focused on the right markets
• Can save manpower

Pricing ~$30-70k/year avg, includes unlimited training and unlimited seats, US and Canada (other geographies are an upcharge)

Product roadmap - expanding to more geographies, which can be temporary exclusivity for early partners

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It was long assumed that a love of wine runs in the family.  Not so, according to new research conducted by ARENI Global on how young consumers get into fine wine.  Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI, gets into the findings of their new study titled “The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine.”  From the shrinking middle class to the motivations of wine collectors to what drives women to embrace fine wine, the research and this conversation are chalk full of insights into how wine can attract the next generation of wine lovers.  

Detailed Show Notes: 

Fine wine trends (March 2026)

• A trend towards more collaboration and consolidation
• Entering the age of precision distribution, after precision winemaking and viticulture
• Shrinking middle class is shrinking the middle sector of wine
• Some retailers in the UK doing well by changing delivery policy (e.g. - free next day delivery at 1 bottle, new events relevant for new consumers)

New ARENI Study: The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine

• Studied several major markets: Paris, London, NYC, Singapore, Shanghai, & Hong Kong
• Research process: expert led roundtables, questionnaires, & interviews / focus groups with consumers and trade
• Did focus groups in Paris & London of wine student groups (e.g. - LSE, Kings College); LSE’s group is 600 members and do 50 events/year with a £400 budget and 50 students attending each one

Study key insights

• Pool of fine wine drinkers is shrinking; demographics driven (less young people, wealth concentrating)
• Routes that create fine wine consumers (e.g. - tech and banking) are replacing internships w/ AI
• Results very similar across markets (a surprise)
• It’s friends, not family that drive wine interest
• Complexity of what’s not understood and the pursuit of knowledge being worthy and fun drives wine interest
• Visibility and ease of access to wine are important
• Restaurants are still important, but the high cost is an issue

Collectors are different from buyers

• Collectors have a reward system (e.g. - dopamine) from the chase
• Everyone has a genetic disposition to collect, but activated in 30-35% of the US population
• Collecting makes people overbuy, which requires a secondary market
• Reducing prices after en primeur can erode the trust in the reason to collect
• The French have a negative association with being a collector
• Young people often spend ~10-15 hrs/week searching and researching wine when they are collectors
• Differences are bigger between genders than nationality; wine collectors defined when 26-35, when women often start a family or build their career and don’t have the time to collect
• Only men reported a benefit from wine knowledge at work
• Events are a good way to test if people can be engaged with the brand
• Collectors learn about producers not regions (Asia different because certifications are important); want to know which producers, why they are important, and where they can be purchased

To trade up in wine, their community needs to trade up with them

Need to sell a community to drink with, not just the wines

Women historically have less propensity to become collectors

• Often have less access to money and drink 3-4x less than men
• Similar at the beginning (44% of <25 year olds engaged in wine, goes down to 7% around 40); it’s not an interest problem, it’s a conversion problem
• Women overindex in education, events, and the importance of community
• They never ask for a female only space, they don’t mind age or gender, but need to share interests (e.g. - similar spending power and interests)
• Successful events have thoughtful placement to create connections b/w people, including to be seen by interesting people; requires knowing all the people who come

Next for ARENI: restaurants business models and consumer expectations for fine wine and an update on US distribution

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Even though it has been making wine for nearly 5 millenia, Israel is a wine region still finding its way in modern times.  Josh Greenstein, Director of the Israeli Wine Producers Association (“IWPA”), is on a mission to promote “Brand Israel,” which is all about new discoveries.  From winemaker stories to creating new grape varieties to mimic the descriptions in The Bible, Israel is making its mark on the global wine scene.  

Detailed Show Notes: 

Josh’s background: 5th generation in the wine business, including NY liquor stores and distribution

Israeli Wine Producers Association overview

• ~40 wineries (of 450 total) are members
• Mission is to promote “Brand Israel”
• Founded by the Herzog family, of importer Royal Wine Corp
• Funded by the wineries and Royal Wine Corp

Israeli wine overview

• Making wine for ~5,000 years
• Wines were exported to the Romans
• Growing Israeli food scene has helped
• Grape varieties: Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, many others including ancient grapes and new grapes, e.g. - Argaman, a genetically engineered crossing of Carignan and Souzao, designed to have a “crimson” color as referenced in The Bible
• Climate: lots of micro-climates, Mediterranean climate, lots of farming
• Soil types: varied, including volcanic, terra rosa, limestone
• Tends to be tech forward in farming and winemaking practices

Wine consumption in Israel

• Growing, consume most of domestically produced wine
• Big use for religious purposes
• Created wine tourism industry to grow wine knowledge in the country
• US is #1 export market by far, majority in the NE (top markets - NY, NJ, Miami (fastest growing), LA, Chicago, TX); followed by Canada, Europe, South America

Total Wine has an Israeli wine section different from Kosher section

“Brand Israel”

• About discovery, stories of the wineries and something different
• Good QPR
• Connects to multiple religions (e.g. - Easter is a large wine consumption event and Easter is about Israel)
• People often respond saying “Israel makes wine?” (e.g. - at South Beach Food & Wine)

All wines in the group are kosher, but kosher is not the focus, just a beneficial attribute

Judaism has lots of holiday and events with wine integrated (e.g. - Shabbat)

Majority of Israeli wine sales in the US are off-premise, trying to push more on-premise

Israeli politics can go both ways, some people don’t buy and others want to support

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Driven by passion, Erni Loosen, Managing Director of Loosen Bros, has spun up countless joint ventures in his career.  All with no business plan or goal of making money, but a greater purpose of driving a Renaissance for Riesling and out of passion for Riesling and Pinot Noir.  Erni goes into the qualities that make for good partnerships and some pitfalls to avoid. 

Detailed Show Notes: 

Erni’s background: Managing Director Loosen Bros, Dr Loosen Estate in Mosel; took over in 1987

Loosen Bros overview & history

• ~200 years in the family
• Only Riesling in the Mosel (Dr Loosen)
• 1996 bought Villa Wolf in Pfalz
• 1999 JV w/ Chateau Ste Michelle (Eroica), largest Riesling producer in US
• 2003 founded Loosen Bros USA in Portland OR as an import company for Loosen wines, then imported other people’s wines; desired to have more flexibility (e.g. - deciding on lower margins due to tariffs)
• 2005 Appassionata (OR Pinot Noir)
• 2009 purchased 40 acres in Willamette Valley, planted vineyards, and built winery
• 2015 JV w/ Telmo Rodriguez (a big Riesling fan) in Rioja w/ Lanzaga
• 2017 1st vintage of JV w/ Peter Barry in Clare Valley Australia to see if Oz Rieslings were always limey; tried 3,000L barrels - Wolta Wolta
• 2019 took full ownership of J Christopher in OR
• Burgundy purchased part of Vieux Chateau de Puligny-Montrachet to start Perron de Mypont and started a negoce
• 2023 founded Dr Loosen Int’l China

A great wine starts w/ an idea in your head

For successful JVs, need the right partners with real passion and the same vision

• Need to see the spirit from the beginning
• Has never had a business plan

JVs are not one way, but learnings on both sides (e.g. - Erni learned how to delay ripening in WA)

• Erni’s goal for JV’s was not making money, but trying to create a Renaissance for Riesling, which used to be the most expensive wine in the world ~1900, but got a low quality image w/ Blue Nun and Liebfraumilch

Most partnerships structured as 50/50 and handshake deals (except Eroica is 40% Loosen, 60% Chateau Ste Michelle, which is also the only contract)

• Key challenge of JVs are when two visions don’t fit, had one that went bankrupt

Would love to do an Alsatian Riesling at some point

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If as many Asians drank wine as the average American, we’d have ~100,000 more wine drinkers. And if Asian restaurants had wine lists at the average rate, we’d have ~5,000 more restaurants with wine lists. This is one of the foundations of the Asian Wine Association of America (“AWAA”), whose mission includes bringing wine to Asian cultures, of which food is central. Part of bridging this divide is exploring Asian food and wine pairing. One of AWAA’s board members, Sunny Liao, Co-founder and CEO, and Philippe Venghiattis, Cellar Master of Vinus Club, delve into their extensive experience pairing wine with Asian foods. 

Detailed Show Notes: 

Sunny’s background: exposed to wine from 6, wine educator with Lady Penguin in China, Wine MBA, wine consultant for restaurants, board member of AWAA

Philippe’s background: exposed to wine from 3, worked in wine auctions, then went to UC Davis and is a vineyard manager and winemaker as well as operations for Vinus Club

Vinus Club is a wine club focused on introducing wine to Asian consumers, including a wine dinner series

Asian food: texture is a big focus, meals often have a diverse assortment of food at once, often need more than 1 wine to pair

Wine w/ at least 5-6 years of age are more accessible to a wider array of flavors and spice vs the pure fruit of young wines, more complexity helps for pairing

Spicy foods work well w/ wines w/ a denser mid-palate that buffer the alcohol

Philippe’s first challenge with Asian food and wine was at UC Davis with spicy hot pot

Eastern palates tend to be more sensitive to acid and more into texture (e.g. - the texture of Petite Sirah attractive to Eastern palates)

Pairing suggestions

• Aged Alsatian whites (15-20 years old) work well, they have texture, complexity, and mid-palate to buffer the spice
• Smargad Riesling w/ a few years of age pairs well w/ Singaporean food
• Braised duck and Barolo
• Flor de Muga Blanco’s aging process adds texture
• Orange and volcanic wines work for younger wines
• Champagne w/ a large amount of reserve wine
• Jura wines a natural fit for a lot of categories
• Nicolas Joly’s Coulee de Serrant w/ ~15 years of age often pairs well, but also shows a lot of variation

Hardest pairings: 

• Korean food; often has a hint of sweetness, hard to balance w/ wine
• Indian cuisine

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With ~1M registered users, CellarTracker (“CT”) is one of the core consumer apps for wine lovers.  When Eric LeVine, Founder & CEO of CT, was last on XChateau in late 2021, they had just taken on investment to expand the business.  Eric gives us a rundown of what has happened since, like launching a new mobile app and adding AI features, as well as what is coming down the pipe.  

Detailed Show Notes: 

CT now at 1M registered users, with monthly active users +40-50% since 2021

• Team has grown from ~10 employees during Covid to ~25

Launched new mobile app 1.5 years ago (2023)

• ~10k reviews in Apple App Store / Google Play with a 4.9* rating
• More modern, visual
• For subscribers: enhanced drinking windows, tasting notes, AI features (chatbot for wines you like, pairings, etc…)
• 3x users registering on monthly basis vs 2021
• Continue to support old app to be more customer centric and work out bugs in the new app

Improved data analytics; overhauled drinking windows, valuation of wines, “what’s poppin” identifying when people are opening wines

Winery analytics: trialed with a couple wineries

• No obvious product market fit
• Wineries interested in what other wineries were in cellars with theirs
• One CA winery had 40% of their mailing list on CT

Historically did no marketing

• Doing more social media, email engagement
• Some paid search, App Store optimization is the biggest driver

Get feedback on what improve with Frill, users can vote on improvements needed and pair it with product usage and usage flows

New features on the horizon

• Starting in-app notifications
• Developing research tool to identify what wines to buy and how much to pay (aggregates price data from reports and ~50% of users report price paid)
• Making AI embedded natively in the application

Add via receipt feature automatically adds (using AI) wines to cellar if you email [email protected]

• Product pricing
• Was early adopter of “freemium” model
• People were confused by historic “voluntary payment,” only 1/1000 users could say what features are paid
• Added more value to paying users (e.g. - drinking windows, AI features; including some things that used to be free), doubled user pay rate
• Suggesting what to pay is more hidden now
• Can get an annual subscription on website, monthly on Apple App Store w/ 2 week free trial (Apple takes a cut and must cancel through Apple)

Consumer trends

• People looking for values (e.g. - they ask “what’s a cheaper version of x?”) and diversity of wines
• Not seeing a lot of changes in user patterns (e.g. - consumption)

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After 40 years, Roederer Estate, the Californian arm of Champagne Louis Roederer has really started to hit its stride.  Arnaud Weyrich, SVP and Winemaker of Roederer Estate and Xavier Barlier, CMO of MMD USA, discuss its history, trajectory, and how Roederer Estate continues to create more reasons to believe in the brand and the wines.  This belief is grounded in a vision to make wines that look and taste like Champagne, but with Californian roots. 

Detailed Show Notes: 

Arnaud’s background: interned at Roederer Estate (“RE”) in 1993, returned to winemaking team in 2000

Xavier’s background: Moet Hennessy, Renault, Disney, then Roederer Marketing & Communications

Roederer Estate in context

• Louis Roederer founded in 1776, began exporting to US in 1860-70’s
• 1980s - acquired Anderson Valley vineyards and built Roederer Estate winery
• Maison Marques & Domaines (“MMD”) founded 1987 for launch of 1st vintage of RE and distribution of Louis Roederer
• RE founded because during 1980s, not enough Champagne made to supply growing US market and land was cheaper than France; could also do the estate model, which was difficult in Champagne
• Anderson Valley had the right weather, track record of other quality, local wines (Chardonnay, Riesling, Gewurztraminer), and inexpensive land (was known for apple orchards)

RE production

• 1st harvest 1985 (80s challenged by legal problems for wine w/ sulfite content)
• Late 80s-early 90s - 40-45k cases 
• Mid-90’s-2000 - ~80k cases (bolstered by French paradox, internet boom, young chefs, and “sommelier” becoming an English word)
• 2025 - ~100k cases
• Limited by estate model, remote part of CA (tries to attract talent by providing subsidized housing for 90% of staff, invested $3M over last 10 years)

CA sparkling history

• Pioneers supported each other (e.g. - Schramsberg, Domaine Carneros, Iron Horse)
• Downturn in market (1987 stock market crash, 1989 phylloxera hit vineyards)
• Market reaction positive, particularly after Schramberg wine served by President Nixon in China at the 1972 “Toast to Peace”

RE launch pricing

• Champagne was priced <$10/bottle in 1980’s, created glass ceiling for CA sparkling
• RE priced $2-5 below Champagne
• RE always wanted to look and taste like Champagne (used same varieties, techniques, including reserve wine)

Accolades helped establish a “reason to believe” for consumers

• RE awarded Wine Spectator Top 100 12x since 1998 (#5 in 2019, #20 in 2024)
• Roederer philosophy to do “as little marketing as possible”
• 2 types of marketing: 1) consumer focused, doing focus groups and market studies; 2) invisible marketing (e.g. - Steve Jobs), start w/ vision and dream (i.e. - be storytellers)
• RE is more product driven, not market driven; winemaking makes the wine, marketing tells the story

Keeping the brand fresh after 40 years

• Continue adding reasons to believe for RE
• As more is learnt about estate, launching new wines - Rose, L’ermitage (vintage, 1989), L’ermitage Rose (1999), Single Vineyards (2020)
• Single vineyards stem from 600 acres / 100 lots of wine every year; like grower wines in Champagne; wine geeks and sommeliers love it; intimate launch (mostly DTC, some on-premise to create buzz and interest)
• Create a community (e.g. - Arnaud often in market for tastings), turn consumers into clients and then into fans that tell the brand story to others

Price of NV Brut has increased from ~$23 to $30 from 2016-2025

• Be honest, transparent w/ wholesalers (e.g. - labor cost, cost of farming, materials), and give time for changes to work through 3-tier system
• Need accolades and marketing to support the idea that the wine is worth the price (“price fluctuates, value endures”)

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Guest hosts and a host as the guest in this episode.  Byron Hoffman and Tyson Caly, co-CEOs of Offset, a leading e-commerce platform for allocated offerings, interview host Peter Yeung about his new course, Allocated Wine Offerings: Best Practices. They get into the content of the course and also a wide range of topics related to allocated offerings. 

Detailed Show Notes: 

Co-hosts: Byron Hoffman, Tyson Caly, Co-CEOs of Offset, a wine e-commerce platform and brand studio

Peter’s background: helped managed wineries (Realm Cellars, Kosta Browne, CIRQ Estate) which used Offset’s e-commerce platform, including managing the allocation systems and then consulting for other wineries; McKinsey; co-author of Luxury Wine Marketing, which has high-level strategy around allocations

Allocated Wine Offering course

• More operational strategy for allocations
• Goes through the entire offering process
• Includes some benchmarks of key metrics

Are allocations still relevant? Yes, for 1) scarcity or desired perceived scarcity and 2) large number of SKUs (hard to do a wine club)

Allocated Offering definition: allocation (limit to purchase) + offering (distinct time frame to buy)

One of the oldest allocated offerings - Vega Sicilia

Other industries that use allocations: watches, cars, sneakers

Uniqueness of wine allocations: price per bottle relatively low, number of bottles relatively high compared to other luxury goods, regulation of alcohol → has made wine allocation systems more advanced

Timing of offerings clustered at key times (“spring” and “fall”), alternatives tend not to work as well

Best practice examples: timing of offerings, wish setting strategy

Supply-demand balance makes a difference in what strategies to use

Allocation methods: 

• Offering types: first come, first serve; guaranteed allocation; order request; wine clubs; hybrids
• Allocation types: group based or individual
• Napa winery started first come, first serve and group based; winery got several 100 point scores, e-commerce system crashed, created buzz and scarcity, and customer service issues amongst old customers; system evolved to guaranteed allocation with individual allocations; led to 40% more customers buying

Most important factor in allocations: creating value in allocations (waitlist, secondary market premium, loss of value if they don’t buy)

Hybrid models: e.g. - Shafer sold high production wines in online store/club, Hillside Select was allocated; adding multiple models increases operational complexity

AI automation for allocations: could do targeted marketing, might be able to create allocations, likely won’t create allocation rules

Setting allocations is quick for first come first serve / group based allocations, more complex individual / guaranteed allocations take longer, but can be accelerated with templates and formulas

Predicting and identifying potential good customers challenging because wine interest is not easy to determine and not correlated with wealth

RFM (recency, frequency, monetary) a way to prioritize customers 

Leveraging unique experiences to wine buying and building community can drive performance

Managing waitlists (e.g. - Sine Qua Non sent a postcard / letter / email every offering to let people know they couldn’t buy wine; intro offerings can engage people right away; drip campaigns also work)

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