April 26, 2025

#164 - Stephen Marche - On Writing, Failure, and the Enduring Struggle of the Creative Life

59 minutes

"The struggle is the cost of admission. It is the price of doing business." - Stephen MarcheStephen Marche: On Writing, Failure, and the Enduring Struggle of the Creative Life 📚

In this week's conversation, Joe Ciccarone sits down with Stephen Marche, acclaimed Canadian writer and cultural commentator whose work appears in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and The New York Times.

Stephen shares insights from his book "On Writing and Failure," discussing the inevitable struggles of the creative process, the realities of rejection, and why perseverance might be the only thing that truly matters.

Episode Highlights:

02:15 - Introduction to Stephen Marche and his diverse writing career 🖋️

04:30 - The power of short-form books and the Voltaire quote about pocket pamphlets 📖

07:10 - "The first job of a writer is to write. The second is to persevere." 💪

09:45 - Herman Melville's tragic story: how Moby Dick sold fewer than 400 copies 📚

12:30 - James Joyce couldn't even get hired to teach English as a second language 😮

15:20 - "Trying to find fulfillment in writing is like trying to learn how to fly by jumping off a cliff" 🧠

17:40 - Anne Frank's diary was rejected 15 times by publishers 📝

19:25 - The gap between intention, action, and consequence in creative work ⏳

22:10 - Why success is temporary and often disconnected from quality of work 🏆

24:30 - Margaret Atwood's story about still feeling insecure despite enormous success 🌟

26:15 - Depression as an occupational hazard in writing careers 😔

28:45 - "The quality of your writing has very little effect on the success of your career, but it's the only thing that matters" 💯

31:20 - Stephen's experience writing for Esquire and the intensive editorial process 🔍

35:10 - Why there's no such thing as required reading 📚

37:40 - Cormac McCarthy didn't sell more than 5,000 copies until he was 60 📖

41:35 - Stephen's writing routine: sleep as a creative superpower 💤

46:20 - The myth of alcohol fueling creativity 🍺

48:50 - Stephen's one lesson for aspiring writers 🎯

50:15 - Current projects and spending a day with Shakespeare 🎭

About Stephen Marche:

Stephen Marche is a Canadian writer, cultural commentator, and novelist. His work regularly appears in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and The New York Times. With a PhD in Shakespeare studies, Marche brings both scholarly depth and journalistic clarity to his writing. His book "On Writing and Failure" offers a realistic look at the creative process, highlighting the struggles of famous writers throughout history while providing insight on perseverance in the face of rejection.

Key Takeaways:

Success and quality are often disconnected in the writing world - Moby Dick, now considered a masterpiece, sold fewer than 400 copies in Melville's lifetime
Depression should be treated as an occupational hazard for writers
The struggle doesn't end with success - even legendary writers like Margaret Atwood still experience insecurity
Sleep and proper self-care are crucial for creative productivity
The myth of alcohol fueling creativity is contradicted by the actual work of famous "drunk" writers
Understanding that struggle is the permanent condition of writing, not a phase that precedes success
The only thing that is permanent is change.

Connect with Stephen Marche:

Twitter: @StephenMarche
Website: StephenMarche.com