Is law an instrument of the state? Or is it broader than that? 

Fernanda Pirie is a professor of law and anthropology at the University of Oxford. Through her books like, The Anthropology of Law and The Rule of Laws: A 4,000-Year Quest to Order the World, she makes the distinction that law is a particular type of custom that doesn’t necessarily need a governmental system to exist. 

In this episode, Fernanda and Greg discuss the earliest iterations of legal systems in history, Fernanda’s view on what makes something a real law, and is the modern Western way of doing things really the best way. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

Do we underappreciate and undervalue other non-state institutions and their role in resolving disputes?

48:37: I think we underestimate how difficult it is to develop those institutions from scratch. We can't just take a model that's worked somewhere else and assume it's going to work in a different context. You know, it's all about understanding the local dynamics, which are different. Who are the powerholders? Who do people listen to? Who has respect? What are the tensions in the community? What are the prejudices? And all of that comes into the effectiveness of any local systems.

Do we have a vague concept of the law?

04:00: Our concept of law is very vague; the way we use it in everyday language, it covers all sorts of things. It covers the process of you going to the law to resolve our disputes. We talk about law in general ways: "Oh, the laws of these people." Meaning the customs we think about as law in the books. It's one of those words. It's slippery.

A particular area where people approach disputes and the law is important

53:18: When dealing with transnational aspects, the factor that a lot of international lawyers worry about is their enforcement. Are things democratic? They apply the ideals and ideologies of the modern nation-state to the legal processes that develop transnationally because they have to because they're transnational problems. And I think it's important not to assume that everything has to work. Like how state law works, it's important to allow that there can be effective ways of approaching disputes and making laws that might work in different ways.

Show Links:Recommended Resources:

• Clifford Geertz
• Alexis de Tocqueville
• Court of piepowders 
• The Stanneries
• The History of English Law
• Code of Hammurabi
• James Whitman
• Persian Letters

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at University of Oxford
• Professional Profile on Maitland Chambers
• Fernanda Pirie on Twitter

Her Work:

• Article on TIme Magazine
• The Rule of Laws: A 4,000-Year Quest to Order the World
• The Anthropology of Law 
• Legalism: Community and Justice
• Peace and Conflict in Ladakh
• Law before Government: Ideology and Aspiration

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