It’s 2023, and women still only make 83 cents for every dollar a man makes in the U.S. While that gender wage gap has shrunk over time, why does it still persist? And what would it take to close it?

Claudia Goldin is the Henry Lee Professor of Economics at Harvard University. She’s written numerous books on women in the workforce and the history of labor. Her most recent book is called Career and Family: Women’s Century-Long Journey Toward Equity. 

Claudia and Greg discuss the history of the gender wage gap, how women’s place in the workforce has shifted over time, and what steps employers can take toward true pay and gender equity. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

What is a greedy job?

24:43: The greedy jobs are the ones that pay the most for additional hours, maybe not even additional hours, but your weekends, your vacations, that demand that you be on the road, that you be up in the air. And so those are the ones that women, disproportionately and for reasons that have to do with social norms, can't take. And so, therefore, in different-sex couples, there is a decision that we're not going to have couple equity. I'm going to take the flexible job, and you're going to take the greedy job. And so, by removing the fact that we no longer have couple equity, we throw gender equity under the bus.

Are people constrained by norms?

56:12: Norms arise because they have a function and are often kept in place and enforced by generations of people, whom we often call our parents and grandparents. And it would be very, very good if these norms changed as fast as society is changing.

The difference between norms and beliefs

32:26: It's required for a norm that there be a set of arbiters outside that care about the norms and go like this when you're not following the norms. And when those people go away, then you can do whatever you want. Norms require that there be an enforcer. An arbiter, okay? Beliefs are different. Beliefs are things like religion. No one isn't necessarily enforcing that. It's something that you believe in and preferences. If we have a mental accounting of this, preferences as well do not require that there be orbiters, but norms require that there be orbiters.

Reframing the way we think about leaky pipeline

50:17: A better way of thinking about the pipeline is that it's not leaking. It's that it's been made so convoluted. It has twists and turns that it's impeding. It's not as if women are leaking out. They're just being impeded from going forward.

• Simon Kuznets 
• Pew Research: "Most dads say they spend too little time with their children; about a quarter live apart from them"
• The Rug Rat Race by Garey Ramey and Valerie Ramey 

• Faculty Profile at Harvard University
• Professional Profile on National Bureau of Economic Research
• Claudia Goldin on Twitter

• Career and Family: Women’s Century-Long Journey Toward Equity
• Women Working Longer: Increased Employment at Older Ages 
• The Race between Education and Technology
• The Defining Moment: The Great Depression and the American Economy in the Twentieth Century
• Understanding the Gender Gap: An Economic History of American Women