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A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.
This Afterlife: Selected Poems
This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from:
The publisher: Carcanet
Amazon: UK | US
My love, I’m grateful tonight
Our listing bed isn’t a raft
Precariously adrift
As we dodge the coast guard light,
And clasp hold of a girl and a boy.
I’m glad we didn’t wake
Our kids in the thin hours, to take
Not a thing, not a favorite toy,
And we didn’t hand over our cash
To one of the smuggling rackets,
That we didn’t buy cheap lifejackets
No better than bright orange trash
And less buoyant. I’m glad that the dark
Above us is not deeply twinned
Beneath us, and moiled with wind,
And we don’t scan the sky for a mark,
Any mark, that demarcates a shore
As the dinghy starts taking on water.
I’m glad that our six-year old daughter,
Who can’t swim, is a foot off the floor
In the bottom bunk, and our son
With his broken arm’s high and dry,
That the ceiling is not seeping sky,
With our journey but hardly begun.
Empathy isn’t generous,
It’s selfish. It’s not being nice
To say I would pay any price
Not to be those who’d die to be us.
Mark: Alicia, where did this poem come from?
Alicia: I think I must have written it in 2016, given partly the ages of the children here. They’re older now. I live in Greece. So, this was during the first very intense wave of migration that was partly from the Syrian War, but also, there were people coming over from various places, Afghanistan, Iraq, and arriving mostly on the island of Lesbos. But in 2016, a lot of these arrivals were also coming into Athens, and I was involved in some volunteer work and so on.
But I became very intensely aware of people with children, the ages of my children, coming over in very precarious situations on very precarious boats and dinghies and so on. And there were a lot of drownings. And this, I think, partly comes out of sort of dropping my children off at the school bus and going back to the house and opening up a Facebook volunteers page and realising that two shipwrecks with maybe a total of 37 people had drowned off of Lesbos, a lot of them children, and just realising there’s a school bus of children who have just drowned, and kind of wanting to write about this, but also being concerned that I not exploit someone else’s experience. How do I write about this from my own point of view? And also kind of questioning that point of view. So, I would also add that ‘empathy’ in Greek is not quite as positive a word as it is in English.
Mark: Oh, what connotations does it have?
Alicia: Well, the English word, I think, is a relatively recent coinage, I want to say Victorian. And before that, you would use sympathy to feel with someone. But empátheia, in Greek, has a sense of maybe feeling against someone, this idea of maybe even hostility. So, I was kind of interested in the word empathy itself, which I think has a bit of privilege in it. I think sympathy, the idea of feeling with someone is different from kind of trying to get into their consciousness. I think that can be problematic.
Mark: And I’m curious as well about this. You could maybe call it, I don’t know, the poet’s conscience. How do you write about something that is other people suffering, that is big, that is a public issue maybe, and yet do it in an authentic way? Because there’s lots of ways we can respond to that as citizens, in the usual discourse, in prose, in conversation, and so on. But how do you come at this as a poet?
Alicia: Well, I think in this case, I frame it very consciously as, you know, we are not these people. And the thing about negatives, I think Anne Carson has written about this, the great thing about negatives in poetry is that it incorporates the positive as well. So, you can say ‘we are not those people’ and then invoke those people. So, there’s a way you can have your cake and eat it, too, with that framing device of the negatives.
I mean, I’ve written some other poems about this also, and they were in the form of epigrams because I think the epigram, which has been used for thousands of years for drownings in the Aegean, if you look at the Greek Anthology, this anthology of ancient Greek poems, it has that kind of maybe slight ironic distance. I think there has to be some kind of distance to it. So, in this case, there’s the framing device of the family who are not having to flee, but, also invoking the terrors, I think, of what that would be of fleeing. So, perhaps this poem is trying to have its cake and eat it, too.
Mark: I mean, it’s something that we’re all confronted with on a daily basis. On the one hand, we have our own lives, however privileged or unprivileged that may be, and then there’s this parallel reality that is coming at us through our phones, through the various types of media night and day. And it’s almost like there’s a split-screen effect for life. And I think maybe that’s what you capture with the negative aspect here.
Alicia: Perhaps. I think it also came out of having dreams and so forth. And this feeling, which is not an uncommon trope, I guess in poetry, of the bed being like a boat itself and thinking about people who are not in beds, but actually in boats. So, there was a bit of maybe metaphorical overlap there.
Mark: And the association with children as well. I mean, you have that wonderful poem about ‘all the fairy stories are about going to bed’ and sleep, and that’s an association in your work.
Alicia: Well, and I think as parents, your basic anxiety is keeping your children safe. And so, in that sense, it is easy to empathise on a certain level with people who are trying to do that for their children. But I remember just very… there’s a lot of just factual truth in the poem. You know, my daughter couldn’t swim, and my son had this broken arm. And I just thought, ‘My God, if I were at sea with them, how terrifying that would be.’ And there was this sense, too, because I do live in Greece, that when my children would go to the beach and be playing in the Aegean, that this water is touching other children in a different way.
Mark: So, there’s that doubleness all the way through. And how did you get started with the poem? I mean, is the finished text that we’ve got here fairly close to how it ended up, or was there a process of evolution?
Alicia: This poem, I think, came out very close to how it is now. I’m sure there was some tinkering with adjectives and word choices and maybe an occasional rhyme. But it came out quite quickly, and I basically left it alone. There are other poems, that I work at very hard and for a very long time and really struggle with. This one kind of came out more or less as it was. I think it sort of started in this kind of song meter, these kind of short lines with these envelope stanzas so that the quatrains are not rhyming ABAB, but ABBA, which is, I guess, another kind of mirroring in the poem, but also these short lines, which are very songlike. And I deliberately left some wonky rhymes in there. I like ‘raft’ and ‘adrift’, partly for their wonkiness.
I don’t know if I have some other ones. Maybe not. You know, I liked that I had ‘rackets’ and ‘jackets’, which I think is a kind of fun rhyme. And the last line, I think, is a bit metrically wonky. I sometimes read it different ways. And I left that on, too, that felt true to the poem to have this kind of slight stumbling last line where it’s not entirely clear how the stresses might fall and it doesn’t matter. And it’s got that maybe off rhyme or slightly wrenched rhyme with ‘generous’ and ‘die to be us’. So, to a certain extent, it was quickly done. And then I felt that the rough edges were part of the poem. And so, part of the process was leaving it alone.
Mark: Right, right, not tidying it up too much. So, I had that reaction to the last line. I love the fact that, you know, ‘Not to be those who’d die to be us’ – you’ve got to do a lot of sorting out of the negatives and the positives and the syntax. And when you describe it as a slightly wrenching, I mean, it’s almost like the mental contortions we have to go through to live in a world where we’re holding all these realities simultaneously in our mind.
Alicia: Yeah, I mean, it’s a good argument for the last slide. I hadn’t thought about it that deeply, but I am aware that it’s not smooth and it’s not perfect. And there are times when I write poems, and I really try to get that perfect, smooth surface. And this, I really wanted to leave the rough edges on. So, I’m glad that it seems to work.
Mark: And even so, I mean, your version of rough edges is a lot sharper and crisper than a lot of poets. I mean, you’ve got this wonderful facility with form, with rhyme. You know, we always know everything is very well considered. I mean, did you have any hesitation about using regular form with rhymes for a subject like this? I mean, the cliche about this kind of form is it’s too neat and tidy for the world.
Alicia: I think some of what the sort of song meter going here, and by that, I just mean something shorter than a pentameter line, does have a kind of childlike and lullaby-like association with it. So, for me, it’s good for poems about children. And if you think about it, a lot of nursery rhymes and lullabies have a kind of sinister depth to them. I think that’s not uncommon. So, I quite like that combination of the simpler kind of sing songiness that goes here with a trimeter with three beats in a line. And the subject matter, to me, I think that that can be effective.
Mark: As you’re saying that, I’m noticing things like, ‘a girl and a boy’. I mean, that could be Hansel and Gretel. It’s a kind of classic fairy tale trope. And I guess the journey, it can be romanticised certainly in poetry, in songs, and so on, and nursery rhymes. But it’s anything but romantic here. And you’ve got so many kind of really telling little details like the lifejackets, no better than bright orange trash, and less buoyant.
Alicia: I think with the lifejackets, I should also add that my husband is a journalist and was at that time going over to Lesbos, and you would see these mountains of lifejackets because, people would take them off and deposit them on the beach. And the thing was that a lot of these lifejackets were not regulation lifejackets. And if you end up in the water in them, you will drown. So, some of that is factual details that come from having a journalist husband.
Mark: And your own experience of actually volunteering and helping out, did you feel it’s a different poem because of that than if you’d, say, read about it?
Alicia: I’m not sure. Trying to think. This must have been in about February or March of 2016. Yes, I was doing some volunteer work, maybe not as much as I ended up doing, that at that time involved going to the Port of Piraeus and helping solidarity groups pass out whatever it was we were passing out that day, you know, oranges or, baby carriers. That was a big thing. And things changed in late March of 2016 because before that, people who had arrived in Greece could simply walk up through Germany and the borders were open. But late, I want to say March 20th or so of 2016, those borders closed, and then you had a kind of backing up of people stuck in Greece.
But I think one of the things that did strike me almost immediately, again I had young children at the time, was seeing children who looked very much like my children, they are half Greek, also could pass for Syrians, wearing the same clothes that the kids were into the same things. You know, they missed their Lego and their pet, they left at home, and are, wearing the Spider-Man shirt, or so forth. So, there was this kind of overwhelming sense of our positions could easily be reversed.
Mark: And also, I mean, I live in the UK, and so people arrive here on boats in pretty well identical circumstances to this. I know you were writing it in Greece because I know the context, but it could have been written by a British poet, and you wouldn’t have to change very many details, I don’t think, if any.
Alicia: Yes, unfortunately, it is still a very topical poem. One would wish that it were more dated.
Mark: I think that was the feeling I had was that my admiration for the poem and the fact that you’d nailed the subject was tempered by… But also, I wish you didn’t have to write a poem like this. And also, just the idea that empathy is something that you need… maybe in the modern sense is in pretty short supply.
Alicia: Yes, I think there has been a sea change in some of that. I remember when we had early arrivals in Greece, a lot of people were very welcoming to these new arrivals. Greeks on the island of Lesbos, I think about 60% of the native population there are descended from Asia Minor refugees from 1922. And so, we’re within just a couple of generations of being refugees themselves. And there was this sense of kind of recognising what this is like and what migration is like.
And I think a lot of attitudes kind of can come from the top, from the government kind of setting the tone for how people deal with arrivals. And people can, I think, rise to the occasion, or there can be an emphasis on distrust and scarcity of resources. So, it has been interesting to watch kind of the changes in public sympathies, empathies, and otherwise.
Mark: And the ending, I mean, it’s really hits you in the face. ‘Empathy isn’t generous, it’s selfish.’ Did that come to you? Was that in your mind all along? Was it as much of a surprise to you as it was for me as a reader?
Alicia: I think it must have been something of a surprise. I might have been thinking in the back of my mind, balancing the Greek meaning with the English meaning, and maybe not sure how to end the poem. And then I think I just thought, ‘Let’s just say the thing, let’s just say it, and see what happens.’ Generally, I don’t know an ending to a poem until about maybe two-thirds or three-fourths through. At about that point, I might see an exit strategy, but I wouldn’t have started with this idea or stanza.
And I think I’ve really tried in the poem to kind of carry through this thought experiment with the details of the thought experiment. But, I couldn’t end within the thought experiment. I had to go back to the frame, which is, ‘This is all I’m imagining from a point of safety.’
Mark: Right. So, the thought experiment ends with, imagining the children, ‘Our son with his broken arm’s high and dry, / That the ceiling is not seeping sky, / With our journey but hardly begun.’ That’s the end of the I’m-grateful-that-this-isn’t-happening-to-us. And then it’s a bold move, I guess, syntactically and in terms of the point of view, as well as what you’re saying. But my goodness me, is that an ending!
Alicia: Well, I think partly, there’s a sort of limit to the empathy. You know, ultimately, you can imagine changing places, but you would not change places. And, just thinking about how much people had paid literally and metaphorically and how, we would all of us pay that price to get to safety if we had that choice.
Mark: Yeah. I mean, to end up with that contemplation of price, in a way, is just as brutal as the statement, empathy isn’t generous. Alicia, thank you for coming and reading such a heartbreaking poem and for being generous in your appraisal of ‘Empathy,’ the poem, and empathy, the concept.
Alicia: Thank you for this interesting conversation. I enjoyed it.
My love, I’m grateful tonight
Our listing bed isn’t a raft
Precariously adrift
As we dodge the coast guard light,
And clasp hold of a girl and a boy.
I’m glad we didn’t wake
Our kids in the thin hours, to take
Not a thing, not a favorite toy,
And we didn’t hand over our cash
To one of the smuggling rackets,
That we didn’t buy cheap lifejackets
No better than bright orange trash
And less buoyant. I’m glad that the dark
Above us is not deeply twinned
Beneath us, and moiled with wind,
And we don’t scan the sky for a mark,
Any mark, that demarcates a shore
As the dinghy starts taking on water.
I’m glad that our six-year old daughter,
Who can’t swim, is a foot off the floor
In the bottom bunk, and our son
With his broken arm’s high and dry,
That the ceiling is not seeping sky,
With our journey but hardly begun.
Empathy isn’t generous,
It’s selfish. It’s not being nice
To say I would pay any price
Not to be those who’d die to be us.
‘Empathy’ is from This Afterlife: Selected Poems by A. E. Stallings, published by Carcanet.
This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from:
The publisher: Carcanet
Amazon: UK | US
A.E. Stallings is an American poet who studied Classics at the University of Georgia and Oxford. She has published four collections of poetry, Archaic Smile, Hapax, and Olives, and most recently, Like, a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. She has published three verse translations, Lucretius’s The Nature of Things (in rhyming fourteeners!), Hesiod’s Works and Days, and an illustrated The Battle Between the Frogs and the Mice. A selected poems, This Afterlife, was published in 2022. She is currently serving a term as the Oxford Professor of Poetry.
A. E. Stallings’ Website
Photo: Kostas Mantziaris
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Empathy by A. E. Stallings appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Mark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.
Emilia Lanyer
Mark McGuinness
(Lines 745-768)
By Emilia Lanyer
Now Pontius Pilate is to judge the Cause
Of faultlesse Jesus, who before him stands;
Who neither hath offended Prince, nor Lawes,
Although he now be brought in woefull bands:
O noble Governour, make thou yet a pause,
Doe not in innocent blood imbrue thy hands;
But heare the words of thy most worthy wife,
Who sends to thee, to beg her Saviours life.
Let barb’rous crueltie farre depart from thee,
And in true Justice take afflictions part;
Open thine eies, that thou the truth mai’st see,
Doe not the thing that goes against thy heart;
Condemne not him that must thy Saviour be;
But view his holy Life, his good desert:
Let not us Women glory in Mens fall,
Who had power given to over-rule us all.
Till now your indiscretion sets us free,
And makes our former fault much lesse appeare;
Our Mother Eve, who tasted of the Tree,
Giving to Adam what she held most deare,
Was simply good, and had no powre to see,
The after-comming harme did not appeare:
The subtile Serpent that our Sex betraide,
Before our fall so sure a plot had laide.
That undiscerning Ignorance perceav’d
No guile, or craft that was by him intended;
For, had she knowne of what we were bereav’d,
To his request she had not condiscended.
But she (poore soule) by cunning was deceav’d,
No hurt therein her harmlesse Heart intended:
For she alleadg’d Gods word, which he denies
That they should die, but even as Gods, be wise.
But surely Adam cannot be excus’d,
Her fault, though great, yet hee was most too blame;
What Weaknesse offred, Strength might have refusde,
Being Lord of all the greater was his shame:
Although the Serpents craft had her abusde,
Gods holy word ought all his actions frame:
For he was Lord and King of all the earth,
Before poore Eve had either life or breath.
Who being fram’d by Gods eternall hand,
The perfect’st man that ever breath’d on earth,
And from Gods mouth receiv’d that strait command,
The breach whereof he knew was present death:
Yea having powre to rule both Sea and Land,
Yet with one Apple wonne to loose that breath,
Which God hath breathed in his beauteous face,
Bringing us all in danger and disgrace.
And then to lay the fault on Patience backe,
That we (poore women) must endure it all;
We know right well he did discretion lacke,
Beeing not perswaded thereunto at all;
If Eve did erre, it was for knowledge sake,
The fruit beeing faire perswaded him to fall:
No subtill Serpents falshood did betray him,
If he would eate it, who had powre to stay him?
Not Eve, whose fault was onely too much love,
Which made her give this present to her Deare,
That which shee tasted, he likewise might prove,
Whereby his knowledge might become more cleare;
He never sought her weakenesse to reprove,
With those sharpe words wich he of God did heare:
Yet Men will boast of Knowledge, which he tooke
From Eves faire hand, as from a learned Booke.
If any Evill did in her remaine,
Beeing made of him, he was the ground of all;
If one of many Worlds could lay a staine
Upon our Sexe, and worke so great a fall
To wretched Man, by Satans subtill traine;
What will so fowle a fault amongst you all?
Her weakenesse did the Serpents words obay,
But you in malice Gods deare Sonne betray.
Whom, if unjustly you condemne to die,
Her sinne was small, to what you doe commit;
All mortall sinnes that doe for vengeance crie,
Are not to be compared unto it:
If many worlds would altogether trie,
By all their sinnes the wrath of God to get;
This sinne of yours, surmounts them all as farre
As doth the Sunne, another little starre.
Then let us have our Libertie againe,
And challendge to your selves no Sov’raigntie;
You came not in the world without our paine,
Make that a barre against your crueltie;
Your fault beeing greater, why should you disdaine
Our beeing your equals, free from tyranny?
If one weake woman simply did offend,
This sinne of yours hath no excuse, nor end.
In 1999 Carol Ann Duffy published The World’s Wife – a book of poems in the voices of the wives, lovers and significant others of some of the ‘great men’ of history, literature and mythology. It included poems spoken by Mrs Midas, Mrs Aesop, Mrs Darwin, Queen Herod, Frau Freud and Pilate’s Wife, as well as Salome, Medusa, Delilah, Queen Kong and Elvis’s Twin Sister. It’s a dazzling collection, full of clever and witty and timely take-downs of patriarchal pretensions, and I thoroughly recommend it.
And what I have just read you is a poem that is not a million miles away, in its basic approach, from Duffy’s subversive feminist project, except that this one was published 400 years ago. It is another monologue in the voice of the wife of Pontius Pilate. She makes only a fleeting appearance in the Bible, in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27 Verse 19, at the point where Pilate, the Roman Governor of Judea, is sitting in judgment on Jesus:
When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
We don’t learn anything else about Pilate’s wife, but this kind of thing is irresistible to poets, and Carol Ann Duffy and Emilia Lanyer have both seized on this little kernel of story and expanded it into poems that pass a kind of judgment on the men who judged and executed Jesus.
If you follow contemporary British poetry, you’ve almost certainly heard of Carol Ann Duffy, but even if you’re a fan of Renaissance poetry, it’s possible that Emilia Lanyer is a new name to you. Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum was the first book of original poetry published by a woman in England, but it failed to make a splash, and wasn’t reprinted for almost four centuries, and she was left out of anthologies of the period until quite recently.
So who was Emilia Lanyer?
She was born in London in 1569 to an English mother, Margret Johnson, and a Venetian immigrant father, Baptiste Bassano, who was a musician at the court of Elizabeth I. Growing up in a family of musicians, she may well have become an accomplished player herself, but what is more surprising is the fact that she received an excellent education, which was very unusual for a girl at the time, especially from the servant class to which musicians belonged. In her terrific book Eve Bites Back, Anna Beer says we don’t know for sure where Lanyer got her education, it may well have been at the household of the Countess of Kent, but in that case we don’t know why the Countess would have bothered to do this for such a lowly person.
What we do know for sure is that the adult Emilia Lanyer, an intelligent and educated woman and accomplished musician, became the mistress of one of the most powerful men in England – Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon, cousin of Queen Elizabeth and her Lord Chamberlain. He also happened to be patron of The Lord Chamberlain’s Men, the company of players who included William Shakespeare. She evidently enjoyed the high life at court, until she became pregnant with Carey’s child and was swiftly paid off and married to Alfonso Lanyer, another court musician.
In recent years some scholars have identified Emilia Lanyer with the ‘Dark Lady’ of Shakespeare’s Sonnets, and her book was first reprinted in 1978 under the title of The Poems of Shakespeare’s Dark Lady. But we don’t care about that, do we? It’s just boring gossip, isn’t it? And it reduces her to a minor character in Shakespeare’s story, rather than a very accomplished and interesting poet in her own right.
Her contemporaries saw her as a mistress, a wife, and a mother, but she evidently saw herself as a poet. In another passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, addressed to the Countess of Cumberland, she claimed that this vocation was hers from birth:
And knowe, when first into this world I came,
This charge was giv’n me by th’Eternall powres,
Th’everlasting Trophie of thy Fame
To build and decke it with the sweetest flowres
That virtue yeelds;
Is this just hyperbole to flatter her patron? Maybe. But I also think it bespeaks a real sense of vocation and commitment, and the sense of confidence and responsibility that comes from being given a ‘charge’, a duty, by ‘th’Eternall powres’ – especially in an age where many of the readers of poetry would have scoffed at the idea of a woman poet.
So Lanyer makes some bold claims for herself as a poet, but she can really back them up, as we can see from the passage I’ve read for you today. It’s from the longest poem in Lanyer’s book, what we would today call the ‘title poem’ of the collection: ‘Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum’, which is Latin for ‘Hail God, King of the Jews’. It’s a devotional poem that begins with the Passion of Christ, and segues into a disquisition on Adam and Eve and the role of men and women in original sin.
So just to refresh our memories, in Christian theology the death and resurrection of Christ was necessary in order to redeem humanity from sin and grant them salvation in heaven. Where did sin come from? The Garden of Eden, where the serpent tempted Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and she then gave the fruit to Adam, who ate it too. And of course this was the one tree whose fruit God had explicitly told Adam he wasn’t allowed to eat.
And because of this, generations of Christian theologians blamed the origin of sin on Eve, and claimed that her weakness and sinfulness had been inherited by women. Which is one reason Lanyer found herself living in a society where it was taken for granted and written into law that women should be ruled by men, who were much stronger and wiser than them.
So that’s the backdrop to this poem, in which we hear the voice of Pilate’s wife pleading with Pilate not to condemn Jesus to death. And in the poem, Lanyer very wisely says nothing that contradicts scripture, which would have got her into trouble. But she does give us a very unusual slant on the material. Because Pilate’s wife points out that everything being done to Jesus is being done by men, not women:
Let not us Women glory in Mens fall,
Who had power given to over-rule us all.
She describes the killing of Jesus as ‘man’s fall’, as opposed to the ‘fall from grace’ associated with Eve, and makes the radical claim that this sets women free from the consequences of their ‘former fault’, since it appears ‘much less’ by comparison:
Till now your indiscretion sets us free,
And makes our former fault much lesse appeare;
Then Pilate’s wife begins an extraordinary defence of Eve:
Our Mother Eve, who tasted of the Tree,
Giving to Adam what she held most deare,
Was simply good, and had no powre to see,
The after-comming harme did not appeare:
The subtile Serpent that our Sex betraide,
Before our fall so sure a plot had laide.
Far from being the source of evil, Eve was ‘simply good’, and ‘had no powre to see’ the consequences of her actions; her mistake was down to the ‘subtile Serpent’, who easily outwitted her ‘undiscerning ignorance’.
Not content with defending Eve, Pilate’s wife lays the blame firmly on Adam:
But surely Adam cannot be excus’d,
Her fault, though great, yet hee was most too blame;
What Weaknesse offred, Strength might have refusde,
Being Lord of all the greater was his shame:
This is a brilliantly executed judo move on the argument for patriarchal power. If, as we are told in the Bible, men derive their power and authority over women from Adam, who was Lord of all, including Eve, then surely it follows that men must be responsible for their own sin? If Eve was so much weaker than Adam, then surely Adam’s strength could have refused what she offered? He was the one in charge, so surely he should take the blame?
It’s hard to argue with the logic. And it must have been galling for Jacobean male readers to read such a cogently argument coming from a supposedly inferior woman. So it’s not hard to guess why her book disappeared after a single printing.
And Lanyer, channelling Pilate’s wife, really hammers the point home: Adam had been granted power power over land and sea, so how come he was won over by a single apple? If Eve was at fault, she was persuaded by a clever adversary in the serpent, but Adam had no such excuse – Eve simply offered him the apple and he took it and ate it without offering the least resistance.
Lanyer is careful not to say that Eve was blameless, but says that her sin was less than that of Adam, for several good reasons that we find in the Bible: she was weak and therefore persuaded by the clever serpent; her weakness meant she could not have persuaded Adam with argument, and she didn’t even try to do this; and she had no idea of the consequences of her actions.
And even the evil that was in her must have ultimately come from Adam, since the Bible clearly states that she was made out of Adam’s rib:
If any Evill did in her remaine,
Beeing made of him, he was the ground of all;
It’s probably no coincidence that these lines occur just after Lanyer has reminded us that men owe their knowledge, which they take such pride in, to Eve:
Yet Men will boast of Knowledge, which he tooke
From Eves faire hand, as from a learned Booke.
So in this reading, Adam gave Eve evil, and she gave him knowledge in return. It doesn’t sound like a very fair exchange, does it?
Then Pilate’s wife returns to the judgment of Jesus, and tells her husband that killing Jesus will be even worse than Eve’s crime, because of the motive:
Her weakenesse did the Serpents words obay,
But you in malice Gods deare Sonne betray.
Eve sinned through weakness, but malice is worse than weakness. Pilate’s wife then expands on the theme with a terrific stanza making the contrast unmistakable:
Whom, if unjustly you condemne to die,
Her sinne was small, to what you doe commit;
All mortall sinnes that doe for vengeance crie,
Are not to be compared unto it:
If many worlds would altogether trie,
By all their sinnes the wrath of God to get;
This sinne of yours, surmounts them all as farre
As doth the Sunne, another little starre.
Isn’t that final couplet marvellous? This sin of yours is so much greater than all the other sins put together as the sun is bigger than a tiny star:
This sinne of yours, surmounts them all as farre
As doth the Sunne, another little starre.
But she hasn’t finished yet. The final stanza I’ve read today contains an astonishing appeal for liberty:
Then let us have our Libertie againe,
And challendge to your selves no Sov’raigntie;
You came not in the world without our paine,
Make that a barre against your crueltie;
Your fault beeing greater, why should you disdaine
Our beeing your equals, free from tyranny?
If one weake woman simply did offend,
This sinne of yours hath no excuse, nor end.
Give us our freedom, don’t take all the sovereignty, the power, to yourselves; you only came into the world through our pain, the pain of childbirth, so surely that should prevent you from being cruel to us? Your fault is greater, so why shouldn’t we be your equals? One weak woman ‘simply’, i.e. ignorantly, did offend, but your sin ‘hath no excuse, nor end’.
This is startling stuff, in a deeply patriarchal society. And the poem isn’t just challenging established gender relations. Class and rank and equality are recurrent themes throughout Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, and it’s startling that this passage, with its revolutionary language about ‘liberty’, ‘sovereignty’ and ‘tyranny’, was published in 1611, thirty years before the English Civil War began.
It’s amazing that the book was published at all. Not only because it would have been harder for a woman to persuade a publisher to take her on, but also Jacobean books were liable to censorship, to prevent subversive or seditious ideas finding their way into print.
But somehow Lanyer managed to get her book published. For her, it may well have felt like a failure – there’s no evidence that it made any impression on contemporary readers. It wasn’t reprinted in her lifetime. And in spite of featuring dedications and appeals to numerous prominent women, it did not secure any lucrative patronage for its author.
On the other hand, maybe – and I really hope this was the case – maybe she felt vindicated, in spite of her lack of worldly success as an author. I hope she did feel that she had discharged some of that ‘charge’ she felt had been given to her at birth by ‘th’Eternal powres’.
And… her poetry has survived because she made the effort to publish it, against the odds. And what poetry it is. It challenges the patriarchal religious establishment, not only in its argument but in the fact that she – a commoner and a woman – is making the argument in skilful and sophisticated verse. And her verse is not just clever, it’s witty and entertaining, even 400 years later.
From the point of view of poetic craft, Lanyer’s book is a virtuoso performance, she uses a series of different stanza forms in different poems, with consummate skill. The title poem, which I’ve read from today, is in ottava rima, an eight-line stanza form that originated in Italy, which rhymes ABABABCC – i.e. you’ve got three ‘A’ rhymes, in the first, third and fifth lines, interwoven with three ‘B’ rhymes, in the second, fourth and sixth lines. And the last two lines of the stanza are a rhyming couplet.
You may recall back in Episode 54, about Shelley, I talked about the difficulty of writing terza rima in English, because it’s made up of interlocking triple rhymes, i.e. three lines sharing the same rhyme. A lot of these poetic forms originated in Italian, which has a lot more rhyming words than English does, so it’s harder to do them in English. And ottava rima is another verse form with triple rhymes, it has two triple rhymes in every stanza. I’ve written some ottava rima myself, a translation from the Portuguese poet Camões, and I can assure you it’s really hard work.
One of the most famous examples of ottava rima in English is Lord Byron’s long poem Don Juan, where he makes a virtue of necessity, by using a lot of polysyllabic rhymes for comic effect. Here he is taking a swipe at poor Coleridge:
And Coleridge, too, has lately taken wing,
But like a hawk encumber’d with his hood,
Explaining Metaphysics to the nation —
I wish he would explain his Explanation.
I think we can detect something of this effect here and there in Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, where Lanyer also rhymes on multiple syllables, such as:
For, had she knowne of what we were bereav’d,
To his request she had not condiscended.
So she not only rhymes the two syllables of ‘perceav’d’, ‘bereav’d’ and later on, ‘deceav’d’, but also rhymes ‘intended’ with the last two syllables of the long word ‘condiscended’. (The word ‘condescended’ here means ‘agreed’, so it’s just saying that she agreed to go along with the serpent’s request.) And I do think it’s intentionally funny, rhyming on the final two syllables of that long word. It helps to lightens the tone, which feels more like a witty retort to patriarchy, rather than a laboured rebuttal.
And then a few stanzas later, we find this very Byronesque final couplet, rhymed on the final two syllables:
If Eve did erre, it was for knowledge sake,
The fruit beeing faire perswaded him to fall:
No subtill Serpents falshood did betray him,
If he would eate it, who had powre to stay him?
Again, this lightens the tone and gives me the impression that she’s not just criticising Adam, she’s mocking him – the one thing that many powerful men, even to this day, cannot stand.
So we’ll hear the poem again in a moment, so that we can savour the daring, the cleverness and the wit of Lanyer’s poem once more.
But before we do that I’d just like to give a shout out and thank you to Podcast Review, one of the most useful and respected guides to good podcasts, because for the third year running, A Mouthful of Air has been included in their list of the best poetry podcasts. The list has expanded to 11 shows this year, and one of the new additions is Close Readings from the London Review of Books, so it’s great to be on the list alongside such an esteemed literary publication, as well as shows from The New Yorker and the Poetry Foundation in the US.
So a big thank you to Podcast Review and to Alice Florence Orr for her kind review. It’s so kind in fact that I would blush to quote it, but if you’d like to read it and remind yourself of what a discerning listener you are, for listening to A Mouthful of Air, then I’ll put a link in the show notes, or you can just Google ‘best poetry podcasts’ and you should find it.
OK, time to listen to Pilate’s wife berating her husband once again.
(Lines 745-768)
By Emilia Lanyer
Now Pontius Pilate is to judge the Cause
Of faultlesse Jesus, who before him stands;
Who neither hath offended Prince, nor Lawes,
Although he now be brought in woefull bands:
O noble Governour, make thou yet a pause,
Doe not in innocent blood imbrue thy hands;
But heare the words of thy most worthy wife,
Who sends to thee, to beg her Saviours life.
Let barb’rous crueltie farre depart from thee,
And in true Justice take afflictions part;
Open thine eies, that thou the truth mai’st see,
Doe not the thing that goes against thy heart;
Condemne not him that must thy Saviour be;
But view his holy Life, his good desert:
Let not us Women glory in Mens fall,
Who had power given to over-rule us all.
Till now your indiscretion sets us free,
And makes our former fault much lesse appeare;
Our Mother Eve, who tasted of the Tree,
Giving to Adam what she held most deare,
Was simply good, and had no powre to see,
The after-comming harme did not appeare:
The subtile Serpent that our Sex betraide,
Before our fall so sure a plot had laide.
That undiscerning Ignorance perceav’d
No guile, or craft that was by him intended;
For, had she knowne of what we were bereav’d,
To his request she had not condiscended.
But she (poore soule) by cunning was deceav’d,
No hurt therein her harmlesse Heart intended:
For she alleadg’d Gods word, which he denies
That they should die, but even as Gods, be wise.
But surely Adam cannot be excus’d,
Her fault, though great, yet hee was most too blame;
What Weaknesse offred, Strength might have refusde,
Being Lord of all the greater was his shame:
Although the Serpents craft had her abusde,
Gods holy word ought all his actions frame:
For he was Lord and King of all the earth,
Before poore Eve had either life or breath.
Who being fram’d by Gods eternall hand,
The perfect’st man that ever breath’d on earth,
And from Gods mouth receiv’d that strait command,
The breach whereof he knew was present death:
Yea having powre to rule both Sea and Land,
Yet with one Apple wonne to loose that breath,
Which God hath breathed in his beauteous face,
Bringing us all in danger and disgrace.
And then to lay the fault on Patience backe,
That we (poore women) must endure it all;
We know right well he did discretion lacke,
Beeing not perswaded thereunto at all;
If Eve did erre, it was for knowledge sake,
The fruit beeing faire perswaded him to fall:
No subtill Serpents falshood did betray him,
If he would eate it, who had powre to stay him?
Not Eve, whose fault was onely too much love,
Which made her give this present to her Deare,
That which shee tasted, he likewise might prove,
Whereby his knowledge might become more cleare;
He never sought her weakenesse to reprove,
With those sharpe words wich he of God did heare:
Yet Men will boast of Knowledge, which he tooke
From Eves faire hand, as from a learned Booke.
If any Evill did in her remaine,
Beeing made of him, he was the ground of all;
If one of many Worlds could lay a staine
Upon our Sexe, and worke so great a fall
To wretched Man, by Satans subtill traine;
What will so fowle a fault amongst you all?
Her weakenesse did the Serpents words obay,
But you in malice Gods deare Sonne betray.
Whom, if unjustly you condemne to die,
Her sinne was small, to what you doe commit;
All mortall sinnes that doe for vengeance crie,
Are not to be compared unto it:
If many worlds would altogether trie,
By all their sinnes the wrath of God to get;
This sinne of yours, surmounts them all as farre
As doth the Sunne, another little starre.
Then let us have our Libertie againe,
And challendge to your selves no Sov’raigntie;
You came not in the world without our paine,
Make that a barre against your crueltie;
Your fault beeing greater, why should you disdaine
Our beeing your equals, free from tyranny?
If one weake woman simply did offend,
This sinne of yours hath no excuse, nor end.
Portrait of an unknown woman, possibly Emilia Lanyer, by Nicholas Hilliard
Emelia Lanyer was an English poet who was born Emilia Bassano in 1569 and died in 1645. The daughter of a court musician, Emilia made connections with the inner circle of Queen Elizabeth I’s court. She somehow received an education that enabled her to write the learned and witty poetry in her collection Salve Deus Rex Judæorum, which was the first book of original poetry published by a woman in England, in 1611. It contains a passionate defence of women’s virtue and piety, featuring one of the earliest feminist critiques of traditional biblical gender roles. Her work sank into obscurity until the 20th century, but is gaining increasing recognition for its formal mastery, its groundbreaking stance on women’s rights and its religious and political commentary.
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.
In the Name of Red
In the Name of Red is available from:
The publisher: The Emma Press
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: UK
Be a darling and imagine. The reddest of all reds—
changeable in velvet, the usurper in broadcloth;
smooching the ground, cheek to cheek, in Louboutins.
I’m here, I’m always here, itching to breathe, vital
under your skin, trumpeted by pulse. I need to exist,
as the poison arrow’s target; dirty on the warrior’s face;
a flag rippling like a dragon overhead.
You wish you could know my names, all secret,
sacred, and true, but call me whatever you want,
I don’t care, or summon me as rose, claret, vermilion,
ladies-blush, lust; evoke me from ruddy, madder,
brazilwood, orchil, cochineal, urucum—I need
to exist. For no other colour in two lengths of cloth
makes a gentleman and keeps him that way,
and there’s nothing I can’t improve with a scandal,
though I’m happiest reclining on a girl’s pretty lips,
pitying potential left to rot, lesser reds that shall
but one day bloom into me if they dare. Know me
as a fiesta in everything I star in: I tickle a tree
and it’s autumn, I tap someone and they blush,
I storm into a battlefield and it’s a field of poppies,
all the time living my best life, as I always will,
me, Shakti, dancing like a graceful madwoman
in the flames of a star, roaring myself redder
(yes, it’s possible), and charging back down to Earth
in the pope’s fresh socks, diving into a dazzling
Diwali of fireflies as they, for a flare-and-sigh,
jaunt through my impermanent soul. But I need
to exist. Shed me, if you must, on your wedding night:
sari cloth, petticoat, silk blouse swaying with the bed,
or pin me as a bindi on your third eye like a sun,
so when they look at you they’ll see me first, exalted.
How fortunate I am to be a colour, let alone
Red.
Mark: Zaina, where did this poem come from?
Zaina: This poem was inspired by a book I read. It’s called My Name is Red by a Turkish writer called Orhan Pamuk. it’s such a beautiful novel. It talks about red and art and miniaturism in such kind of flair and floral language, but not done in a saccharine way. It’s so beautiful.
And it is a murder mystery, but the way it’s written is it’s written from different perspectives, different narratives. And you’ll have a tree talking, for example, or the colour red, or blood in this novel, which I found really creative. And I thought, ‘I want to…’ – because it’s so poetic. I wanted to write a poem kind of very similar to that, or just inspired by it, but obviously not copying it.
So I began writing about it, inspired by that. And also, at the same time I was writing, I had these other poems, about Persephone and Hades in this pamphlet and nature and all these things. And I really wanted to unify all these poems and write an introductory poem. And this is what this is in this pamphlet. It’s the first poem.
And to be honest, how it came together is it’s just automatic writing, which is when you just put pen to paper and you just write what is in your head and you don’t think too much. I just wanted it to flow, because that’s how I imagine red would be if it was a person. It would just be so confident. It doesn’t need to overthink anything. It believes in itself so much. It’s self-serving.
Mark: No self-esteem issues with red!
Zaina: No self-esteem issues. Yeah. And I just wanted to include all these references, which I found when I was researching, the history of red. And, there’s kind of references to fashion, to natural dyes. When I was researching it, I was very surprised to find that it’s not just a… it’s a masculine colour. Red is also a masculine colour, not just a feminine colour. I always thought it was a feminine colour. So I kind of talk about, ‘no other colour in two lengths of cloth makes a gentleman’, which is…
Mark: Is that the redcoat, the soldier?
Zaina: Yes, it is. Yeah. So the British Army used to wear red, in the Napoleonic Wars, which is funny to me to wear red on the battlefield. But yeah, it just kind of expresses confidence, doesn’t it? To your enemy.
Mark: Right, right. So it’s had quite a fluid history in terms of the associations.
Zaina: Yes.
Mark: And, I’m really curious about this thing about the novel because I would never have guessed that this came from a novel. And maybe we don’t need to know that because it’s not dependent on it. It’s almost like the spirit has flown out of the novel.
Sometimes you read a poem and it’s really obviously linked into another work of art, whether that’s a novel or a painting or whatever. And you kind of…it feels like it’s in dialogue. I mean, to what extent do you feel like this is in dialogue with the Pamuk novel, or do you feel that it’s kind of flown free and come its own thing?
Zaina: I agree with you. I think it’s flown freely from that. It was just the starting point. It was the inspiration. But when I was writing this, because it was done in the technique of automatic writing, it just kind of became its own creature, its own thing. And that’s good in a way because I didn’t want it to be linked with this novel. I just wanted to write a poem that was in this voice, in this red, that red is speaking to you. That was inspired by the novel, but this voice is its own voice, and it just came out of that automatic writing.
Mark: And it’s interesting that red in the poem says, ‘Call me whatever you want, / I don’t care,’ or, ‘Summon me.’ It’s like this is the spirit of red that you’re channelling through the automatic writing.
Zaina: Yes. So it is witchy in a way, it looks like a spell.
Mark: Yeah, absolutely.
Zaina: And when I think of red, I do associate it with the kind of darker symbolism of red, which is witchcraft and blood, thinking about the Incas and the Aztecs who would probably use it, a pigment of red in ritual, and they wore it in their headdresses, their clothing, they put it on their face. That’s what I mean by ‘dirty on the warrior’s face’ as well.
Mark: What was it like for you as a poet channelling that voice? Is it exciting? Is it scary?
Zaina: It was exciting because, I am not a very, very confident person, I wouldn’t say, and I’m quite reserved. And one of the reasons why I did write this poem is because I wanted to channel that confidence and that pride and be completely uninhibited, you know.
Mark: Yeah.
Zaina: Yeah, sometimes you just want to step outside of yourself, you know. And I think, for example, actors can do that. They just can go mad and become someone else.
Mark: Yeah. That’s quite true.
Zaina: And I think poets can do that in a way as well, you know. It is a dramatic monologue, and there are lots of dramatic monologues in this pamphlet too, because one of the motivations behind writing this was just to step out of myself and just feel liberated from being held back so much. And that’s what red means to me, it’s just freedom.
Mark: Well, you’ve done a tremendous job there, because there’s not a moment of hesitation right from the beginning. ‘Be a darling and imagine.’ I mean, that’s so kind of… it’s seductive and confident and taking us into its confidence, but it’s confidence, I guess, in both senses. But we’re doing what it’s going to tell us because we are going to imagine…
Zaina: Yes, so the first line, yes, ‘Be a darling and imagine,’ that’s sort of talking about this poem but this pamphlet is about readership, it’s about how readers interpret what they read and they make it their own. So as readers, we take in what we read, and we use our experiences to process what we read. And, interpretation is so important. We all see the world differently, we see colours differently, I’m sure. So the imagination in this pamphlet is so, so important. It’s such a core part of this. You know, it’s a major theme here. And that’s why I really wanted to get that word at the forefront. Yeah.
Mark: And for anyone who hasn’t read the pamphlet In the Name of Red, this is the first poem in the pamphlet. So this is really, on the one hand, it’s the voice of red, but it also seems like it’s the voice of the poet. ‘Be a darling and imagine.’ It’s like Shakespeare at the start of Henry V, telling the audience to ‘work, work your thoughts, and in imagination, see a siege’, orsomething like that. And he’s saying, ‘Look, you have to join in if this play is going to work, because we’re just some guys on a stage with some threadbare props.’ But you invite the reader to join in and to imagine and participate in the book right from the beginning.
Zaina: Yes. Well, another inspiration for this pamphlet was Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë. And she talks to the reader a lot in the novel, she addresses the reader, I’m feeling like this, this is happening to me. And as a reader, when you’re addressed, you’re more attentive and you want to do what the writer says. And I really wanted to include that element of talking to the reader directly. Because as a writer, that gives you so much power.
And I think red would want all the power. You know, as a person, you just want to control everything. So yeah, that’s another kind of element to that, speaking to the reader, because there is a relationship between the writer and the readers, kind of a symbiotic relationship. The writer provides the work but the reader brings the spirit and the life to the work, they bring it to life, I think. A piece of writing is nothing without the reader. That’s why, I think.
Mark: Right. And very often, it’s an assumed relationship, isn’t it? But maybe in poetry, particularly, some poets like to play with that relationship and be quite artful like you’re doing here.
And, it’s always been a theme on the podcast to how much does the ‘I’ of the poem, how closely does that align with the ‘I’ of the poet? Now, clearly, on one level, this doesn’t align because as you say, it’s a dramatic monologue. But then the game has got another level, because, behind that, as we’ve seen, maybe there is the poet’s voice as well.
Zaina: Yeah, definitely where there’s a repetition of ‘I need to exist.’ That sort of reflects my urge sort of to prove myself as a writer because this is one of the first things I’ve ever written, this book. I’m not a very experienced poet. And yeah, I need to exist. So it’s kind of from the heart. I want to be part of this poetry world. I want to be here. I need to exist. Yeah, I would say that’s me speaking there from the heart.
Mark: ‘I’m here, I’m always here, itching to breathe, vital / under your skin, trumpeted by pulse.’ Isn’t that wonderful, ‘trumpeted by pulse’? Yeah, it’s a joyous poem of announcement, isn’t it?
Zaina: Yeah, it’s saying, ‘I’m here, and I’m not going to go away. I want to inhabit all these things. I am versatile. I can morph into different things,’ as a poet can, a poet can inhabit so many different characters and write about so many things. And poetry is so free. It’s not like prose where you do have to think about structure but you can just be so free about it. It is a form of art, I would say, poetry more than it’s about writing.
Mark: And obviously, there’s so much verbal richness in this, I mean, all the words for red you’ve got: rose, claret, vermilion, ladies-blush, lust, ruddy, madder, Brazilwood, orchil, cochineal, urucam. I mean, I had to look some of these up. Did you have all of these at your fingertips? Did you have to look some up? Were there others that didn’t make the cut? I mean, how do you deal with such a kind of richness of description?
Zaina: Yeah, I did do my research, to begin with. I wanted a variety of different things, claret being, wine, vermilion is a pigment, but it’s also used in Hinduism. You know, the wives would wear red on their hairline to show that they’re married. And there’s these kind of juxtapositions. You know, there’s that kind of, following the rules, religion, and then there’s lust and being free and not being afraid to be sexual almost. And that’s what colour is, it inhabits all these different ideas. And it’s just free to do that. And that’s what I wanted to show. There’s just so many things you could write about colour. And that’s why it is such a long poem because there’s just so much to include. But yeah, I wanted to include as much as possible and be as varied as possible.
Mark: Well, also, another thing I noticed is obviously there’s an embarrassment of riches when it comes to adjectives to describe a colour, but I love the way you use verbs as well. So you say, ‘I tickle a tree / and it’s autumn’. That’s just delightful. ‘I tap someone and they blush. / I storm into a battlefield and it’s a field of poppies.’ I mean, you get a shiver down the spine when you realise the implications of that.
Zaina: Yeah. Again, it’s just showing how varied this colour is. It’s elegant, it’s delicate, but also it can storm into a battlefield. It’s powerful. It’s almost like I’m writing about a trickster god, like Loki. He could be in the myths, he could be very serious, but most of the time he’s just joking around. So I’ve always been fascinated by these trickster gods because yeah, they do very, very big things. They can destroy the universe if they could, but at the same time, they don’t take themselves seriously. They’re just joking around most of the time.
Mark: So Loki is from Norse mythology, but you’ve also got Shakti from India…
Zaina: Yeah. So I include a lot of Hindu references because when I think of red, of all the cultures, I think Hinduism really adopts red. Shakti is a very important goddess in Hinduism. She is the wife of Shiva, one of the creator gods, but she’s sometimes seen as more powerful than Shiva and she has many different guises. Sometimes she’s a demon slayer. Sometimes she’s the goddess of death, karma, and sometimes she’s a little bit more benevolent and kinder.
But this is introducing this theme of femininity and women not just being, one-dimensional. We have a good side, but also there are times when we do lash out. It’s introducing… You know, I talk about my Mum a lot in this pamphlet, Persephone, mythical character, and myself. You know, there’s this very chaotic poem in this pamphlet about Alice in Wonderland and it’s just so mad, called ‘The Red Queen’ and she’s all mad in the book. So it’s kind of looking at mental health in a way as well.
Mark: And it’s also really nice as an opening poem. This one colours the other poems, it’s like we’ve got spatters of red from this in things like ‘The Red Queen’ and some of the other poems later. I think that’s one of the real pleasures of a collection of poems, is the way the poems start to refract and reflect each other and speak to each other.
Zaina: Yes. This was definitely supposed to be an introduction to all the other themes in the book, kind of getting yourself ready for the chaos that follows. It’s not all chaotic. There are moments of reflection and contemplation and pauses, but this is a very chaotic, mad pamphlet.
Mark: So picking up on the writing process. I’m going to pick up that thread from the automatic writing. How close was your first automatic draft to what we see on the page today?
Zaina: I’d say it’s very close. I had to revisit the list of reds, rose, claret, vermilion. I think I took some things out and added… I think urucum was the last thing I added.
Mark: And what’s that? That’s one of the ones I had to look up. What is urucum?
Zaina: It’s a plant. It gives off pigments of red and it’s used in South America by Indigenous people. Yeah. And they rub it on photographs to protect themselves, to protect their spirit. It’s kind of used as protection.
Mark: So was the form basically there? You’ve got this wonderful almost like a helter-skelter of it’s all one verse paragraph and there’s a lot of enjambment, a lot of lines spilling over the sense from one line to another and so on. Was that pretty well established in the original draft?
Zaina: I had to revisit where everything ends, the line endings, the enjambment, making sure that it had a sort of rhythm to it, it wasn’t just blocky and prosaic. I wanted it to flow like a poem. And the ‘Be a darling and imagine’, that’s where it all started, ‘Be a darling and imagine’, ‘Okay, I’ve got that now. Now this is…’ Everything else flowed from that, you know. So yes, it was automatic writing but I had to start from ‘Be a darling and imagine’. Once I got that, I just wrote it down from there and it was pretty much like this with some tweaking here and there, but yeah.
Mark: Yeah, so fine-tuning, but this is… And it does have that kind of freshness, that energy of the… I really feel that automatic voice coming through, all the way to the end where you have quite a bold ending certainly formally, where you’ve got two lines.
So we’ve got one long verse paragraph and then we get these two lines on their own, including one of the boldest enjambments I think I have ever seen. So you’ve got, ‘How fortunate I am to be a colour, let alone’ – line break – ‘Red.’ And it’s red with a capital R and a full stop afterwards. I mean, how did you get to that? Did that just spill out? Did you think about that?
Zaina: No, so that came afterwards. I didn’t know how to finish this kind of flowing of words, yeah. I didn’t know how to finish this. You know, I could go on forever and then I thought, ‘Okay, I’ve kind of come to an ending here with the sun and the bindi and when they look at you, they’ll see me first.’ I thought, ‘Okay, it doesn’t sound like an ending, it’s kind of coming to an ending but it’s not ending.’ And yeah, I spent ages trying to find how to end this and then maybe it should just kind of go back into itself, this red, what am I? Essentially, ‘I am a colour, I’m fortunate to be a colour’.
And yeah, it just came. One day it just came to me. And this is the beauty about poetry is that you can just put it to one side but it’s still in your mind. Okay, you’re carrying it around with you while you’re shopping and you’re going out or whatever and it’s still in your mind, and one day something just drops, and this line is one that just sort of dropped while I was doing something that was not even related to poetry. And yeah, it was all on one line and then I thought, ‘No, we need red on its own at the end because it loves itself so much, it needs to be on its own, kind of standing on this platform and loving itself.
Mark: It’s brilliant, I love it. And I also love that story about you patiently waiting for the ending because, there’s a lot of stories of poets getting the inspiration for the beginning of a poem, you know, Coleridge and ‘Kubla Khan’ and so on, but we don’t often hear the story of the poet wandering about and ransacking their brains and going for walks until they get the ending, but very often that’s the case, isn’t it?
Zaina: Yes.
Mark: You’ve got most of it but haven’t found the ending yet and it’s kind of irritating and it can’t let you go. But if you’re patient, as you were, and receptive, then sometimes it will drop into your lap.
Zaina: Yes, I find it more difficult to finish a poem. I’d never know when to finish it really and you can kind of keep on writing forever, especially for a poem like this, where the subject is vast. But yeah, some poems I find it very, very difficult to find that impactful ending. And the best thing to do, and that’s my advice, is just to wait, and instead of chasing it, let it come to you. I think a lot of writers do that. You just wait for it to come to you because it does. You just need to have some faith.
Mark: It’s a little bit when you’re trying to remember the thought you just had. The harder you try the more elusive it is, but then if you maybe stop to think of something else it will pop into your mind. It’s a bit like that.
Zaina: Yeah, I think with anything creative, when you put too much effort into it, when you try to restrict it too much with thought, it does the opposite of what you want. You need to let it flow. You need to let go a bit and then kind of everything sort of falls into place. It needs to be effortless. It needs to feel effortless. You shouldn’t try too hard.
Mark: Yeah. Well, thank you, Zaina, you know, just as the poem could have gone on forever. I think, we could talk all morning about all the different aspects of this poem, but I really think this is maybe a good chance for us to have a listen to it again and appreciate that in the light of the conversation we’ve just had. So Zaina, thank you very much for coming on the show and sharing such a delightful poem.
Zaina: Thank you so much for having me.
Be a darling and imagine. The reddest of all reds—
How fortunate I am to be a colour, let alone
‘Reddest Red’ is from In the Name of Red by Z. R. Ghani, published by The Emma Press
In the Name of Red is available from:
The publisher: The Emma Press
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: UK
Z. R. Ghani lives in London. She graduated with a B.A. in Creative Writing from Bath Spa University in 2012. Her poems, which explore themes of identity, femininity, religion, and nature, have been published in literary journals such as Magma, Black Bough Poetry and The Willowherb Review. In 2021 her first collection of poems was shortlisted in the Poetry Wales Pamphlet Competition. In the Name of Red is her first poetry pamphlet.
Twitter: @zr_ghani
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Mark McGuinness reads and discusses ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’ by John Keats.
John Keats
Mark McGuinness
By John Keats
I
Thou still unravish’d bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of silence and slow time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fring’d legend haunts about thy shape
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
II
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear’d,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!
III
Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearied,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love!
For ever warm and still to be enjoy’d,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy’d,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue.
IV
Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
Lead’st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
What little town by river or sea shore,
Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
Is emptied of this folk, this pious morn?
And, little town, thy streets for evermore
Will silent be; and not a soul to tell
Why thou art desolate, can e’er return.
V
O Attic shape! Fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say’st,
‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty, – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.’
Last month Matthew Buckley Smith read us his poem ‘Drinking Ode’, inspired by Ode 2.14 by the Roman poet Horace. And just as we did with Terrance Hayes and the sestina, I thought it would be good to stay with the same poetic form and look at a classic example from the past.
And when it comes to the ode, John Keats is probably the preeminent name in English poetry. Other poets have written one or two famous odes, but Keats’ substantial reputation rests in very large part on a series of six great odes he wrote in the same year, 1819. So this feels like a good time to feature Keats on the podcast.
So what exactly is an ode? Well as Matthew said last month, the word has meant a lot of different things at a lot of different times. It’s a bit of a slippery form. For one thing, it’s not associated with a specific metrical form, the way the sonnet is, or the ballad, the sestina, the villanelle and so on. And for another thing, its character has changed quite a lot in the two and a half thousand years or so since it first appeared.
The word ‘ode’ comes from the ancient Greek word for ‘song’, and the original Greek odes were set to music and performed by a choir in a theatre, who went through a set pattern of movements as they sang: from east to west, then west to east, and then stopping in the middle. And the metre would change with the dance steps, and it must have been pretty dazzling, a bit like a modern gospel choir.
Pindar was the ancient Greek poet credited with writing the greatest of these odes for public performance. The Romans continued the tradition, most notably in the work of Horace, but the Horation ode was typically more private in theme and tone, and I’m pretty sure he didn’t lead a choir booming his works out in the public square.
The ode was a popular form for English poets in the 17th and 18th centuries, doing their best to emulate the classical poets they revered, with some leaning towards Pindar and some towards Horace. And at the turn of the 18th and 19th centuries, the Romantics really took on the ode in a big way, echoing Pindar in their sublime visions, and Horace in their focus on their own personal and subjective states. Wordsworth wrote an ode on ‘Immortality’, Coleridge did one on https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43973/dejection-an-ode, and Shelley did the west wind. And Keats of course did a whole series of odes.
So the ode in English is no longer a song and dance routine, but it does retain something of the grandeur of its roots. The Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics describes it as ‘the most formal, ceremonious and complexly organized form of lyric poetry’, lending itself to public or state occasions. Even when it’s on a personal subject, an ode is very much poetry with a capital P.
Supposing we compare the forms of lyric poetry to the violin family of musical instruments, and say the sonnet is about the shape and size of a violin, and the sestina is a cello, then the ode would be the double bass, producing the deepest and most sonorous notes, and usually only wheeled out when the occasion calls for a full orchestra.
So the ode is a form of lyric poetry, but of the weightiest and loftiest kind. Poets don’t typically write an ode about their trip to the supermarket or their dirty weekend in Paris. They write odes on immortality, beauty, death, or classical gods. Or in Keats’ case, all of them at once.
This lofty seriousness is one reason why odes aren’t particularly popular these days. They’re seen as a bit pretentious. But Keats was writing at the height of the Romantic era, so he wasn’t remotely scared of being pretentious, and thank goodness for that.
And Keats is a great example of a poet coming into his own when he found the form that fitted his talent. He started off wanting to be an epic poet in the tradition of Homer and Virgil and Spenser and Milton, and he wrote reams and reams of epic poetry that had a lot of great things in it, but didn’t really go anywhere.
He also wrote some great sonnets, and these are definitely worth reading, I may do one of them on the show at some point. But it’s the odes where he really stands out, where he stakes out his own unique territory, and does things no one has done in English before or since.
His most famous ode is the one ‘to a Nightingale’, and I was very tempted to do that one today, but it’s a little bit long for the podcast, this one is a bit more manageable and just as interesting in its way.
OK. ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’. It’s ostensibly a description of a Grecian urn, a fancy kind of vase (or ‘vayse’, depending where you’re from). And the speaker is looking at the urn and talking to it as if it were a person:
Thou still unravish’d bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of silence and slow time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
So all of these epithets, the ‘unravished bride’, the ‘foster-child’, and the ‘Sylvan historian’ are the speaker’s pet names for the urn, capturing different aspects of what it means to him: a messenger or a historian, who is able to speak from the depths of silence and slow time, to bridge the gap between the ancient world and the present, and communicate something important from the past.
And he then goes on to introduce the images on the urn in quite an elegant way, by asking a series of questions:
What leaf-fring’d legend haunts about thy shape
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
And we know that Keats did spend time contemplating ancient Greek urns and other artworks, as part of the Elgin Marbles collection, and also by studying illustrations. We even have a drawing by Keats of one Grecian urn, the Sosibios Vase, which he traced from a book.
But no one has identified a single urn that depicts the exact set of scenes described by Keats in the poem. So it looks like his Grecian urn is a composite, an imagined object that exemplifies the themes he wanted to write about.
And given that the speaker of the poem is talking to the urn as if it were another person, and by the end of the poem, the urn starts talking back, we should probably be careful about taking the poem at face value.
So the poem’s structure is fairly straightforward – he starts by addressing the urn and then describes the scenes sculpted on the panels of the urn, with a different stanza for each scene, and then concludes with some final thoughts that are among the most quoted and debated lines in English poetry.
The stanza form is original to Keats, it’s basically a sawn-off Petrarchan sonnet, starting with only four lines, making a single quatrain, instead of the usual eight lines; and then followed by a typical sestet, the final six lines. And we know from Keats’ letters that this experimental form was born of a dissatisfaction with the way the sonnet worked in English, and he tries variations of it in several of his odes.
And for me, the effect is to undermine the usual four-square, solid appearance of the sonnet, and to foreground the fluid, intricate, open qualities of the sestet. Way back in Episode 3 of this podcast, you may recall Mimi Khalvati describing the Petrarchan sonnet. She said the octave, the first eight lines, is like ‘ a tall stand of still trees, somewhat gloomy, possibly and all standing close together’. And the sestet, the final six lines, is ‘like some little babbling brook at the feet of these trees’.
So Keats has basically cut Mimi’s grove of trees down to size, so that we’re focused much more on the sound and movement of the babbling brook, which accounts for the beautifully flowing or dappled or mottled effect that to me is very characteristic of Keats’ odes. Just have a listen to the second stanza:
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear’d,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!
Isn’t that beautiful? There are so many interlocking sound patterns we could spend the whole podcast on this one stanza. We could look at the way the hypnotically regular metre combines with the rhyme scheme, and the use of assonance and alliteration, repeated vowel and consonant sounds; not to mention the use of enjambment, the syntax running over the line endings, and caesuras, breaks in the middle of lines, so that the lines seem to dissolve and form themselves again. A bit like reflections in a moving stream.
If we turn to what the speaker is saying, he’s basically arguing that the imagination, as expressed in the art on the urn, is better than reality:
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear’d,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
So sweet as it is to listen to music, it’s even sweeter to imagine the ‘unheard’ melodies played by the pipes depicted on the urn. Because these are heard not by ‘the sensual ear’, but by the ’spirit’. And then we get this extraordinary passage, where he shifts from talking to the urn to addressing a ‘fair youth’ and a ‘bold lover’ who are depicted on it:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal
So he’s talking about the fact that the scene on the urn is frozen in time, which means the ‘fair youth’ can never stop singing the same song, the leaves can never fall from the trees, and the bold lover who is reaching out to the woman in front of him will never be able to actually kiss her, even though they are almost touching. All of which sounds like a decidedly mixed blessing. But he offers some consolation to the tantalised lover:
yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!
So although he will never be able to touch her, he will love her forever, and her beauty will never fade.
And it’s tempting to agree with this, isn’t it? I mean, Keats is hardly the first poet to confront the problem of the passing of time, and the fading of love and beauty and all the other fleeting joys of life. And he’s offering art as a consolation, a way of preserving love and beauty, not just for a few thousand years, but ‘for ever’.
This reminds me of when I was small, looking at the pictures on my bedroom wall. I remember thinking that I wanted to go into the pictures, into the landscapes of the artists’ imagination. There was something weirdly magnetic about the worlds I could see but not enter. So I know how Keats feels about art as a portal to another dimension. Or as he put it in his ‘Ode to a Nightingale’, ‘magic casements, opening on the foam / Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn’.
And in the third stanza of ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’, he paints a very rosy picture of the picture on the urn:
Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearied,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love!
For ever warm and still to be enjoy’d,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy’d,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue.
So this is all very ‘happy happy joy joy’, as Ren and Stimpy would put it. In this eternal spring the leaves never fall, the music never stops, and the lovers are ‘For ever warm and still to be enjoy’d, / For ever panting, and for ever young;’. Unlike ‘breathing human passion’, that leads to broken hearts and burning foreheads and parching tongues.
But – and you knew there was a but coming, didn’t you? – there’s obviously a problem with this line of argument. Because it’s all very well to say the solution to the suffering created by the passing of time is to freeze time, by enshrining youth and beauty in an artwork. But of course, as soon as we start to think about the implications, it starts to feel a bit weird and unnerving.
Would you really want to be frozen for all eternity, about to kiss your beloved but never actually touching their lips? Isn’t that a version of the punishment of Tantalus, in the ancient Greek underworld?
So what Keats has done is to confront us with an existential paradox: on the one hand, when we think of everything and everyone we love, including ourselves, vanishing with the passage of time, it feels unbearable. But if we imagine taking even the most perfect moment in time, full of music and love and laughter, and freezing that in time to preserve it forever, that too feels unbearable. As a sermon on suffering, the Buddha would have been proud of this one!
And Keats himself seems to have second thoughts about all this in the final stanza, where he turns from talking to the figures carved on the urn, to addressing the urn itself once more:
O Attic shape! Fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
So ‘brede’ is a variation of ‘braid’, meaning the scenes of ‘marble men and maidens’ are wrapped around the urn. And it’s telling that he says the urn is ‘overwrought’ with the carvings. I think, on a literal level Keats is saying these scenes were carved over the surface of the urn; but that word also has more negative connotations, suggesting firstly that the artwork is a bit ornate, a bit overdone, and also maybe suggesting the feeling of being ‘overwrought’, overcome with anguish.
And then he says:
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
A cold pastoral doesn’t sound very idyllic, does it? And it’s at odds with his description of it as a warm springtime. But he’s explicit here that the chill comes from the association with eternity – the urn is teasing us out of thought, waking us from our reverie, to contemplate eternity. And what comfort is there in doing that? Human beings are creatures of time, and we are deeply uncomfortable with the idea of eternity, even when we try to imagine it as an endless paradise. As somebody once said, most of us would rather go to a lecture on heaven than heaven itself.
But in spite of this chill, Keats persists, presenting the urn not just as a symbol but as an oracle:
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say’st,
‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty, – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.’
So this is the point where the urn starts talking back, when the speaker imagines it speaking to future generations, and saying ‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty’.
It’s a pretty bold claim isn’t it? And there has been a lot of argument over the past two centuries about what exactly Keats meant by this, and whether there is any validity to the claim. It’s fair to say most critics agree that the words are beautiful, but not so many are convinced they are true.
These days of course, even the beauty part is suspect. To Keats and his contemporaries, it would have been self-evident that beauty was an important element of art and poetry. And in the late 19th century, this attitude reached its apex in the aesthetic movement, which espoused ‘art for art’s sake’.
But nowadays, beauty is regarded with suspicion in the poetry world. It’s seen as old-fashioned, self-indulgent, a luxury, and a distraction from the harsh realities of life. The pendulum as swung so far that in 2010, while I was on the board of Magma Poetry magazine, I remember Laurie Smith editing issue 48 on the theme of beauty in poetry, because as he wrote, ‘we wondered if it was still possible to write poems about experiences, people, objects or places that the writer finds beautiful’.
And the truth side of the equation is even more controversial. Because Keats’ urn is not just saying that beauty is important or desirable or a consolation for suffering. It’s proposing truth as epistemology, a foundation of knowledge – if something is beautiful, it’s likely to be true, and vice versa. And of course we can imagine all the trained philosophers throwing up their arms in horror at this.
Plus in the political sphere, the obvious danger with this kind of attitude is that it risks airbrushing uncomfortable realities out of the picture. Especially in a poem that was partly inspired by the Elgin Marbles! If the ode were in a museum, it would be a candidate for a plaque explaining the colonial provenance of its subject. It’s practically begging for a satirical poet to write a scathing takedown.
But you don’t have to be particularly woke to object to the proposition that ‘beauty is truth, truth beauty’. No one would accuse Philip Larkin of political correctness, but he took issue with the ‘Ode’, saying that a poem could be either beautiful or true, but not both. And he categorised his own poems as either one or the other.
He wrote a poem called ‘Essential Beauty’, which sounds pretty Romantic, and the title is actually from one of Keats’s letters, but it’s actually about the fake beauty of advertising billboards. One of the most beautiful and famous lines in Larkin’s verse is ‘what will survive of us is love’, at the end of ‘An Arundel Tomb’, another poem about a sculpture of a pair of lovers. Which again, sounds marvellously Romantic, but if you look closely at the syntax, then strictly speaking, Larkin’s poem is saying that this beautiful idea is ‘almost true’, but maybe not quite.
We’ve said several times on this podcast that we should be wary of taking poems at face value, as statements of the poet’s opinions. But in the case of ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’, we do have strong evidence that the urn is speaking on Keats’ behalf: in a letter to his friend Benjamin Bailey, 18 months before the composition of the ‘Ode’, he wrote: ‘I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart’s affections and the truth of the imagination. What imagination seizes as Beauty must be truth.’
But in the poem, even Keats doesn’t quite put his cards on the table. He puts the words ‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty’ in quotation marks and attributes them to the imaginary voice of the urn. So they take on the character of dramatic speech, rather than the author’s unfiltered opinion. So maybe Keats and Larkin aren’t quite as far apart as they seem.
Anyway. If you have a negative reaction to the ending of ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’, I can probably understand why. As we’ve just seen, there are all kinds of reasons for dismissing it or criticising it.
And yet… it is a beautiful line, and a beautiful poem. And call me a Romantic, but I think once we decide that there’s no place for beauty in art, we’ve kind of given up. I can’t help responding to the beauty of the poetry and feeling its beauty is a key to some kind of truth, even if I would struggle to articulate it in rational terms. Fortunately for us, Keats has articulated it in poetic terms, so let’s have another listen and see what we make of it this time…
By John Keats
I
Thou still unravish’d bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of silence and slow time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fring’d legend haunts about thy shape
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy?
II
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear’d,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goal yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!
III
Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearied,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love!
For ever warm and still to be enjoy’d,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy’d,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue.
IV
Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
Lead’st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
What little town by river or sea shore,
Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
Is emptied of this folk, this pious morn?
And, little town, thy streets for evermore
Will silent be; and not a soul to tell
Why thou art desolate, can e’er return.
V
O Attic shape! Fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral!
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say’st,
‘Beauty is truth, truth beauty, – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.’
John Keats was an English Romantic poet who was born in 1795 and died in 1821. He trained as a surgeon, but abandoned medicine to devote himself to poetry. Despite a brief literary career cut short by tuberculosis, Keats produced a remarkable body of work, including epic verse, sonnets, and a series of great odes, including ‘Ode to a Nightingale’, ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’, and ‘To Autumn’. His poetry explores themes of beauty, love, and mortality with profound emotional depth, and his letters are also widely read and quoted for his observations on life and art.
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
You can hear every episode of the podcast via Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favourite app.
You can have a full transcript of every new episode sent to you via email.
The music and soundscapes for the show are created by Javier Weyler. Sound production is by Breaking Waves and visual identity by Irene Hoffman.
A Mouthful of Air is produced by The 21st Century Creative, with support from Arts Council England via a National Lottery Project Grant.
You can listen and subscribe to A Mouthful of Air on all the main podcast platforms
Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Ode on a Grecian Urn by John Keats appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Matthew Buckley Smith reads ‘Drinking Ode’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.
Midlife
Midlife is available from:
The publisher: Measure Press
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: US
for R
Drink with me, old man — there’s no time
And no use trying to be good.
Our flesh was supple, our thoughts sublime,
And now death eats us alive, and should.
The gods aren’t missing any sleep
Over the altar lights we burn
To honor afterlives we keep
Pretending we might someday earn.
The king, the peasant farmer, even
You and I and everyone,
Can pick the suit we’d like to leave in
But not the day the tailor’s done.
So cowards survive the battlefield
And bullies fill the lifeboats first
And rich kids get their records sealed,
But some verdicts can’t be reversed.
Men say a river worms around
The grove where dead souls speak again,
But that black swamp has long since drowned
Both ferryboat and ferryman.
Your land, your house, your tender wife,
The plum trees planted by your hand —
You’ll leave them when you leave this life
For a ditch beneath a cypress stand,
And the man who takes your place will spill
Your choicest vintage wine onto
The white jacquard chaise longue you still
Believe somehow belongs to you.
Mark: Matthew, where did this poem come from?
Matthew: So this poem is a, I know a lot of translators, I always hesitate to say translation. It’s not a translation from Horace. It is an imitation or admiration of a very famous poem by the Roman poet, Horace, who was always writing to his friends saying, trying to offer some kind of consolation. I fell in love with Horace in my mid-20s in the pit of a really, probably one of the worst depressions of my life. And it was a book of poems that my friend, Ryan Wilson, also a poet, gave to me, the Odes of Horace, in this case translated by David Ferry, that I went to in that time. And I read and reread and he had marked pages with all of his favorites. And this was certainly one of them.
And what initially drew me to Horace, I mean, there’s a lot there to love. And my classicist friends tend to prefer other translations, but what I really found congenial about him was his willingness to address really bleak questions always with good cheer and a very level head.
I think some people think of Horace as a kind of a poet of conventional wisdom, and he does have a lot of conventional wisdom. In fact, all of his wisdom is pretty much conventional, but I don’t see these as poems with lessons or morals, so much as poems that are sort of human reminders, or even in their way, like letters to friends. When you reassure a friend, when you write to a friend or you speak to a friend about who’s having trouble, it’s not like you’re coming up with these pearls of wisdom for him. It’s not like you’re the one who coined there are plenty of fish in the sea, but it’s your role in part to be the one who is steady and who is reliable when their own life is tumultuous.
And Horace is, among many other things, as I said, among his many virtues, he has played that role in my life, even though he’s been dead for 2,000 years. So that’s broadly where this poem came from, and it is dedicated to Ryan, and it is addressing him, who has long been both a poetry friend and a drinking friend.
Mark: You’ve got quite a lot of classical references in your book Midlife.’ Are you able to read the original or is this purely via translation?
Matthew: Oh, I’m a total dilettante. I mean, I like having the en face, the facing translation where you can see both the original Roman or Greek in some cases and the English. I can pick up here and there snatches of Latin, but I certainly don’t know it at all. I have a lot of good friends who are very good classicists. And I like to read translations. I like to read translations of the same poems by lots of different people as well, which does help give you a slightly better sense of the original. But no, I am in no way a Latinist or a classicist really at all.
Mark: And his odes are numbered, aren’t they? Could you give us the number so if anybody’s listening…
Matthew: So this is 214, which is sometimes given the subtitle ‘To Posthumous’, which was a guy’s name in addition to being a word for us, posthumous meaning after the death of, after the burial of. And presumably posthumous then was the name of a guy who was born after his father died. I assume that’s what that name would have meant. But who knows?
Mark: So can you give us a quick sketch then of this Horace poem and what it meant to you before we then look at what you did with it?
Matthew: Yeah, I am very unoriginal as a poet in being obsessed with death. When my daughter was in fifth grade…
Mark: One of those things that never goes away.
Matthew: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, when my daughter was, not in fifth grade, five, she had a show and tell at school and she had to tell the teacher. There’s something she had asked for specifically, but she said, ‘Well, it’s blue and it looks like an object. It looks like part of the human body.’ And the teacher said, ‘What does it do?’ She said, ‘Oh, it reminds you that you’re going to die.’ The teacher said, ‘Is it a memento mori? Is that what you brought to class?’ Which it was. So yeah, this poem is a memento mori. I mean, a lot of Horace’s, Horace is probably most famous in the culture at large for the two words ‘carpe diem’, ‘seize the day’, or in the original, ‘pluck the day’. And the advice of many of his poems, this one included, is whether implicitly or explicitly, we’re not going to be around forever. Enjoy what you have right now. And so it is a drinking poem. It is an invitation to drink and the closing image of it, which I have preserved with a little bit of embellishment for Ryan’s sake, because he has a white jacquard chaise longue he’s very proud of. And so I had to envision it getting wine spilled on it.
But the closing image is basically that, whoever inherits your property when you die, will inherit your vast wine cellar with all of this Caecuban wine, this precious wine. And he’s not just going to drink it. He’s going to be throwing a party and spilling it on the floor. Which is to say, why don’t you open a bottle for us right now? Because somebody’s going to eventually.
So I mean, I think that the broad outlines of the poem in which he enumerates, he gives more examples from mythology in his version, but he enumerates that all of our efforts to preserve our lives, all of our efforts to distract ourselves, all of our efforts to predict when we will die are all basically in vain. And lots of other people have attempted them before. And all of us end up in Kassetus, and one of the many deep black rivers down in the underworld. Hell for the Romans and Greeks was not hell for the way we imagine it, Christian, the people in Christianity and after Christianity imagined it. It was a little more universal and a little more gloomy, but not necessarily full of torment. Though they did have a spot for that, for the real bad guys.
Mark: Okay. And so he didn’t try and cheer his friend up. I mean, he’s not trying to take his mind off it. He’s confirming it and saying, ‘Yeah, this too shall pass.’ And that’s exactly why we should savour the moment.
Matthew: And I think that was part of what really appealed to me because I couldn’t… I mean, it was a time in my life when I came to him that I really just couldn’t stop in every second. For me, it’s like, I think about death every hour or so, but then it was, I think about death every minute. And so it was good to read something that did not look away, that didn’t come up with any pretences and that just said, all right, so let’s stare it right in the face and still open a bottle of wine.
Mark: Right.
Matthew: I named it ‘Drinking Ode,’ his original poems don’t have titles properly, they just have numbers. And it ends with wine and I believe it, I can’t remember, I may have put the wine in the beginning as well. I don’t know if that’s in the original, but the other real comfort this poem is of course about is friendship. That’s the chief consolation. The wine is here now, but the wine’s going to be here later if you leave it. We’re here now.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
Matthew: And so, yeah, this is my clumsy, stiff, American, heteronormative way to write a love letter to my friend, Ryan.
Mark: And it’s a lovely thing to do, I think. I mean, just picking up on your point just now about, I mean, I’ve suffered from depression myself. I used to be a psychotherapist, so I spent a lot of time talking to people dealing with depression. And I know from first and second-hand experience, looking in the face and saying, ‘Yeah, we’re not going to sugarcoat it.’ That can actually be very consoling in and of itself, because you’re not invalidating somebody’s feelings or their state of mind.
And once you do that, then other possibilities come to light. Like, I think it’s a lovely point that you make that it’s not just about the wine. Wine is really, way back in our civilisation, is really kind of a lubricant for friendship, a social experience. Because it would be a completely different experience if it was, ‘I’m going to sit here and drink this on my own’.
Matthew: Right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, and there’s a fine line between drinking so you can talk with a friend and having a friend over so you can drink. [Laughter] I mean, it’s a lubricant, it makes us less inhibited. I should also mention, I don’t drink anymore.
But yeah, the real occasion is the friend’s presence and the friend’s life. You know, in some ways, it’s a harsh poem because he’s basically saying there’s no escape. Everything you cherish will pass, or will pass from your hands into somebody else’s hands. And we’re all going to end up in the same place. But it is in a backhanded way. And the Romans were, in some ways, not unlike Americans in that they had a little bit of a constipated, stiff upper lip masculinity to them. But it is a way of saying, of celebrating that his friend is here. But all of the lines that say, ‘You will die,’ are also lines saying, ‘You’re alive.’ And I’m, and he’s, you know, and he’s, like, as much as he teases him, he’s writing to his friend, and this is his second book. I mean, he’d written his first book, made an impression. He knew this was not to throw away. He knew this was a significant thing, and he was dedicating it to his friend.
Mark: So that’s what Horace did, and that’s what Horace has meant to you. Now tell me a bit about how you approach this poem.
Matthew: Yeah. So you mentioned before we started recording that writing in form, that is writing, usually, when people casually say writing in form or writing formal poetry, I guess we mean with metre and rhyme, because there are plenty of other varieties in form, including in this book, in this poem, actually. I do spend a lot of time revising. I spend a lot of time tinkering and fiddling with lines. But even more than that, I spend a lot of time writing out drafts and then throwing almost all of them away. So I love reading old poems. I love sort of thinking big, complicated thoughts about poems and how they fit together and making plans and coming up with sketches. But in the moment of writing, I am very seat of pants.
And so this poem really just began with the first line, which is how most of my poems begin, and which is the line that is not really a rendering of any line in the poem, exactly. ‘Drink with me, old man — there is no time,’ which isn’t even right. Is that a sentence? What is that? It’s like two sentences, two independent clauses. I just put a dash in the middle because I didn’t know. But it felt like a thing that I would say to a friend. It felt true enough as an utterance. It doesn’t really scan, meaning that you can’t really make any good metre out of it when you try to break it down. But it’s eight syllables, and I thought, all right, well, the shorter the line of verse, the less it matters so much where the stresses go. [Laughter] You know? Like you have like, especially with the tetrameter and trimeter, they kind of, they get a little mushy at times.
And so eight syllables is roughly four beats. And so what if I just wrote this poem with four-beat lines and then this first line would fit? So that was really where it started. And as with most poems, I just gave it a try with the assumption that I would throw it away. And this is when I ended up hanging onto and tinkering with a good bit more.
In addition to Horace, one of my other great nerdy poetry loves is the also very uncool English poet, A. E. Housman, who wrote a lot of poems in short four-beat lines in quatrains, which is this poem is printed in a big column, but it’s written in quatrains, meaning little four-line units, it rhymed every other line rhyming. And which is, he wrote many, many, many poems in that form. He wrote about the most perfect little tetrameter quatrains that have been written in English. His poems are as effortless and spotless as pretty much it gets.
And something he did that I only noticed around the time I was working on this poem, which was also a time when I had this particular ode in my head, was he borrowed something from really, really old English poetry. Before we had proper rhyming and before we had even proper metre in Anglo-Saxon poetry, we were just sort of hammering out these thudding four-beat lines without metre in any regular sense. Sorry, it is regular. It’s not regular with the smooth regularity of post-Norman invasion poetry.
Mark: Well you’re not counting all the syllables in Anglo-Saxon verse.
Matthew: Exactly, yeah, you’re only counting the stresses.
Mark: And the syllables can go here, there and…
Matthew: Yeah, in a way, it’s a little closer to sprung rhythm or it’s a little closer to, it’s actually what it’s very close to in some ways is the prosody of, I mean, the metre, the syllable stress counting of rap, which is conventionally a four-beat line. And part of what is fun about rap is that you can fit as many syllables as you can say smoothly. It’s up to you to deliver it in a credible way, but you get four beats. And so however many syllables you can fit into those four beats and make it sound good, that’s what a line is. So it’s a little closer to that. And the thing that the Anglo-Saxons did, they didn’t use rhyme in a regular way. So rhyme links two lines or more together to each other.
They used alliteration to link a line to itself. So every line had two halves, as you know, and they would sort of staple those two halves together by having a stressed sound in either of them or more sometimes begin with the same letter sound. So they would have, there’s a line, oh, I don’t want to quote it because it’s copyrighted. But this is how they would link their lines together. And it’s something Housman does all the time, even though he also writes in these sort of pristine rhyming perfect, accentual-syllabic quatrains. He would often, the front end of a line and the back end of a line would have a stressed syllable that began with the same sound. And so he would sort of, his lines would be themselves stitched together with these little additional alliterative links, as well as having this sort of chiming, beautiful, series of quatrain rhymes.
Mark: And Horace does this too, doesn’t he? He’s got these, as I understand it, very tight, metrical units in his odes. That was fairly typical.
Matthew: The thing, yeah, so I, as a dilettante and a heathen, I like Horace in part for his tone and his management of argument. And by argument in poetry, it’s not at all like argument in a debate club. Logic is very secondary. It’s an emotional argument. My classicist friends, if I had to boil their love of Horace down to one word, it would probably be syntax. You know, Latin has very different grammar rules in English, of course. And what they often love most about Horace is the way that he arranges the order of the words. And he’s famous for these long sentences that you have to get all the way to the end of before you get the verb that makes it all make sense. And they cherish the way that he drops information out in this very deliberate way across the length of that long winding sentence. That is beyond my canon. That is something I don’t know.
Not knowing Latin, I’m a, I come to it in my barbarian way, liking the gist and the, yeah, he wrote very, an ode in the Horatian sense is a poem written in a series of regular stanzas. So he wrote these different units of lines and every unit would have the same metre, the same length number of lines. And it would sort of be the same unit on the page. And he would write the poem stacking a bunch of those in a row and they were all symmetrical. And that sort of formally was what he did as an ode. But ode has meant a lot of different things at a lot of different times.
Mark: And so you’ve clearly, you’re channeling that in your drinking ode. Does he also have this rather dark humour that you’ve got where you’ve got lines like, ‘Now death eats us alive?’ And ‘You and I and everyone, / Can pick the suit we’d like to leave in, / But not the day the tailor’s done’. And obviously the unforgettable chaise longue at the end. Has he got thatmordant humour or is that your kind of…?
Matthew: I think he does, I mean, he does at least as I read him having it. I mean, it is often making fun. I mean, he is a great, he’s like in the long tradition of poets and standup comedians and bards, he is great at simultaneously boasting and mocking himself. And he has poems in which he makes fun of what a bad soldier he was when he was a soldier. He famously, he had a tumultuous life early on. His father was born a slave and then sort of came to freedom. Slavery was very different in ancient Rome than it was in other parts of the world at other times. But he then joined the wrong side of the Roman civil war. He joined the Brutus side, lost. Supposedly ran away from that, was not a good soldier. But in losing, he then had all of his property and his father’s property confiscated.
And then later, because he was friends with Virgil and Virgil was friends with Maecenas, he became a favoured poet under Augustus. And so he sort of had his fortune taken away and then given back to him. And he famously was given a Sabine farm where he lived and loafed and wrote his poems. But he was always aware that things could turn.
He has a poem in which he, it’s a poem about how a tree almost fell on him. And he’s just cursing the tree with fury. He’s so mad at this tree. And he’s so mad at the person who planted this tree that almost fell and killed him. And then he imagines dying. And if he had died, he imagines he would have gone down to the underworld and he would have been listening to Sappho and Alcaeus, these ancient Greek poets he revered. And so the end of the poem is strangely wistful. I think he is very, yeah, very much a, he’s very attuned to life’s ironies and turns.
And this was, I should say also, in being a poem in part about my friend, Ryan, around the time… I was raised very conservatively and very Catholic and really lost my faith later in life than some people do. And around that same time, my friend Ryan converted to Catholicism. I mean, he was born Catholic, but he sort of, he had an adult awakening and he became a very devout Catholic. So we sort of traded places. And I think that has been part of how we’ve related to each other and talked to each other since then.
So he gave me this book and I was sort of giving it back to him in my pagan atheist hopeless way to his freshly believing and faithful and hopeful self. So yeah, that’s all, yeah, that tension and that awareness of change is certainly part of Horace and part of my own outlook. I’ll mention, the tailor line is in part a quiet teasing of Ryan who’s always been very particular about how he dresses and is a big believer in men should wear suits. When I’m around him, I tend to dress up more because I feel self-conscious. I want to look correct, but yeah, I had to give him a little grief over that.
Mark: But that’s, again, it strikes me that’s another nice thing that you’ve channelled from Horace is the spirit of friendship, the give and take, the exchange, the reaching out, the teasing, but at the same time the consoling. I mean, it strikes me as almost quite a British tone you’ve got here that it’s very dark and very humorous, but at the same time, there is consolation in there if you look at it.
Matthew: Oh, yeah, I believe so. I think that’s certainly, I think it may be more native to male friendship, though I think it not exclusively. Part of the friendship is playful abuse.
Mark: Well, it’s certainly very characteristic of male British friendship, I can say. So yeah, I found that very congenial. And there’s an interesting kind of just thinking about this in the context of the book as a whole. You’ve got this kind of, like I say, there’s a lot of classical references or classical games. Like there’s a hilarious one about the version of Achilles who didn’t go to the Trojan War.
Matthew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mark: And we were talking about Auden before we got started. I think the tone and the way you handle it is very Auden-esque. You have a lot of anachronisms as well. You know that famous line in Auden, ‘Caesar’s double-bed is warm.’ I mean, of course he doesn’t have a double-bed, but in the Auden version he did and it kind of makes sense.
Matthew: Yeah, and the clerk is writing on the pink form, ‘I do not like my work,’ in that same, maybe in the same stanza.
Mark: That’s right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you’ve got that kind of feel. And I really mean this as a very high compliment that it makes me think of that Auden-esque, urbane, classical, humorous, ironic, but also formally very accomplished. Was Auden, was he a presiding spirit for you or is this?
Matthew: Oh, I mean, I love Auden. He’s, yeah, I mean, I still think he’s responsible for, what I get grief for this, but I would argue is the most beautiful love poem of the 20th century, which is ‘Lullaby.’ The opening two lines are, ‘Lay your sleeping head, my love, / human on my faithless arm,’ which is just about as perfect as it gets. But yeah, I mean, I love, and I think ‘The Fall of Rome’ and ‘Shield of Achilles’ are two that stand out as being particularly present.
But I think for, you’re right about the anachronisms and the way I read the anachronisms or the kind of the inclusion in a way in both directions of new things, things that didn’t exist back in poems about old times or vice versa, that it is in part a way to make a joke, but it’s also in part, I think, a, it’s almost literary realism in the sense that if you write poetry, then you’re living with these guys. You’re living in the same, you’re sharing, that they know, at least some of them know, Horace certainly, says in one of his poems, ‘I’m building a monument more permanent than bronze.’ And, Dante was not shy about including himself in the among the circle of the immortal poet, there was only like four or five best poets in history. And he was like, oh yeah. When he walked into the room, they were like, ‘Oh, finally you’re here.’
So like, I mean, plenty of poets have called their shots. Shakespeare says, ‘So long as men can breathe, their eyes can see, so long lives this and this gives life to thee.’ So a lot of these guys knew that not only are they responding to poets who lived before them, but they’re speaking to poets who live after them. And even Eliot says that, you borrow from the tradition, but you also reorder the tradition every time you contribute to it.
So, I think of a, there’s a Spanish grad student I knew in, when I was in grad school, who, he walked into a bar, went to, of course we were always studying in bars. And I made some crack about, I said, ‘Oh, all of Ryan’s friends are dead.’ Meaning all of his friends are, you know, wore togas or fluffy collars, and Manuel’s response is, ‘They are not dead.’ Which I think is right. And it’s how I feel with all of these old guys, whether it’s Auden or Horace, who are, lived in radically different times, but they are both dead and they’re both very much alive.
Mark: And isn’t that a lovely thought to carry into, maybe we can hear the poem again and just think about that, because it’s a poem about the inevitability of death. And yet what you’ve just said is in a sense, they’re not dead at all.
Matthew: Yeah, that’s the, that is the, that is the simultaneously generous and egomaniacal promise of poetry. We want to preserve the things we love and we want to live forever. And we go to poetry, sometimes to… I think of Ben Johnson writing about his daughter’s death and, it’s not, it is once that, oh, sorry, not, well, his daughter, he has a beautiful poem about his daughter, but I was thinking of the poem about his son’s death, which is ‘a child of my right hand’, speaking of his son, Benjamin, which is the meaning of the word Benjamin. ‘Here lies Ben Johnson, his best piece of poetry’ that, you know, poetry is, yeah, I think writers, poets are, to some extent, always vampiric, always self-serving, but also, at our best, maybe have a service to offer out of love to the world that we encounter, however briefly and tipsily while we’re here.
Mark: I can’t top that, Matthew. That’s the perfect place to end. Thank you very much. Let’s hear the poem again.
Matthew: Great.
for R
Drink with me, old man — there’s no time
‘Drinking Ode’ is from Midlife by Matthew Buckley Smith, published by Measure Press.
Midlife is available from:
The publisher: Measure Press
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: US
Matthew Buckley Smith is the author of the poetry collections Midlife and Dirge for an Imaginary World. He lives in North Carolina with his wife and daughters, and he hosts the poetry podcast SLEERICKETS.
And if you haven’t heard Matthew’s podcast Sleerickets, I heartily recommend it. It’s a very insightful as well as funny treatment of what he calls ‘poetry and other problems’. He interviewed me on his podcast a couple of years ago, and we had a great conversation about poetic form.
MatthewBuckleySmith.com
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
You can hear every episode of the podcast via Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favourite app.
You can have a full transcript of every new episode sent to you via email.
The music and soundscapes for the show are created by Javier Weyler. Sound production is by Breaking Waves and visual identity by Irene Hoffman.
A Mouthful of Air is produced by The 21st Century Creative, with support from Arts Council England via a National Lottery Project Grant.
You can listen and subscribe to A Mouthful of Air on all the main podcast platforms
Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Drinking Ode by Matthew Buckley Smith appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Mark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage about the Great Fire of London from Annus Mirabilis by John Dryden.
John Dryden
Mark McGuinness
By John Dryden
Such was the rise of this prodigious fire,
Which, in mean buildings first obscurely bred,
From thence did soon to open streets aspire,
And straight to palaces and temples spread.
The diligence of trades and noiseful gain,
And luxury more late, asleep were laid:
All was the night’s; and in her silent reign
No sound the rest of nature did invade.
In this deep quiet, from what source unknown,
Those seeds of fire their fatal birth disclose;
And first few scattering sparks about were blown,
Big with the flames that to our ruin rose.
Then in some close-pent room it crept along,
And, smouldering as it went, in silence fed;
Till the infant monster, with devouring strong,
Walk’d boldly upright with exalted head.
Now like some rich or mighty murderer,
Too great for prison, which he breaks with gold;
Who fresher for new mischiefs does appear,
And dares the world to tax him with the old:
So ’scapes the insulting fire his narrow jail,
And makes small outlets into open air:
There the fierce winds his tender force assail,
And beat him downward to his first repair.
The winds, like crafty courtesans, withheld
His flames from burning, but to blow them more:
And every fresh attempt he is repell’d
With faint denials weaker than before.
And now no longer letted of his prey,
He leaps up at it with enraged desire:
O’erlooks the neighbours with a wide survey,
And nods at every house his threatening fire.
The ghosts of traitors from the bridge descend,
With bold fanatic spectres to rejoice:
About the fire into a dance they bend,
And sing their sabbath notes with feeble voice.
Our guardian angel saw them where they sate
Above the palace of our slumbering king:
He sigh’d, abandoning his charge to fate,
And, drooping, oft look’d back upon the wing.
At length the crackling noise and dreadful blaze
Call’d up some waking lover to the sight;
And long it was ere he the rest could raise,
Whose heavy eyelids yet were full of night.
The next to danger, hot pursued by fate,
Half-clothed, half-naked, hastily retire:
And frighted mothers strike their breasts too late,
For helpless infants left amidst the fire.
Their cries soon waken all the dwellers near;
Now murmuring noises rise in every street:
The more remote run stumbling with their fear,
And in the dark men jostle as they meet.
So weary bees in little cells repose;
But if night-robbers lift the well-stored hive,
An humming through their waxen city grows,
And out upon each other’s wings they drive.
Now streets grow throng’d and busy as by day:
Some run for buckets to the hallow’d quire:
Some cut the pipes, and some the engines play;
And some more bold mount ladders to the fire.
In vain: for from the east a Belgian wind
His hostile breath through the dry rafters sent;
The flames impell’d soon left their foes behind,
And forward with a wanton fury went.
A quay of fire ran all along the shore,
And lighten’d all the river with a blaze:
The waken’d tides began again to roar,
And wondering fish in shining waters gaze.
This is an extract from a long poem by John Dryden called Annus Mirabilis, which covers the period 1665-66 and describes a series of naval battles between the English and Dutch fleets, followed by the Great Fire of London. The poem was published in 1667, just a year after the Great Fire.
Why did Dryden publish so soon after the event? And why was it called Annus Mirabilis, which means ‘a year of miracles’? Surely a year that included the destruction by fire of the capital city was more of an Annus Horribilis? Especially as it was also the year of the Great Plague of London – which for some reason, Dryden fails to mention in his poem.
Samuel Johnson claimed that Dryden called it a year of miracles, ‘because it was a wonder that things were not worse’. Which sounds like a pretty extreme case of seeing the glass as half-full rather than half-empty. But in fairness to Johnson, it’s a pretty accurate description of Dryden’s attitude. Later in the poem, when considering the aftermath of the fire, Dryden presents it as less of a problem than an opportunity:
Methinks already from this chymic flame
I see a city of more precious mould,
Rich as the town which gives the Indies name,
With silver paved and all divine with gold.
So on one level this is a thoroughly pragmatic framing of the situation, as a chance to ‘build back better’, with modern architecture and new commercial opportunities, that will pave the streets with silver and gold. And this was indeed what happened – the fire was a disaster in the short term, but it did clear out a lot of the old ramshackle medieval wooden houses which were then replaced them with modern buildings of brick and stone.
But this stanza uses the language of alchemy as well as the language of commerce – the ‘chymic flame’ was the chemical fire that alchemists believed would purify the contents of the ‘precious mould’, and produce not only gold but also spiritual transformation.
But why did Dryden take this stance, when so many of his contemporaries were grieving the loss of their property to the fire and their family and friends to the plague?
Because at this stage of Dryden’s career he was a confirmed Royalist, a supporter of King Charles II who had been restored to the throne in 1660, after the Civil War and the Interregnum, when England was effectively a republic. So he was determined to exonerate the King from any blame for the disaster, and certainly to counter Puritan suggestions that this was God’s judgment on the King and the established Church.
The scholar Edward Hooker pointed out that in the early 1660s a series of rebellious pamphlets was published, using the title Mirabilis Annus, describing ‘strange apparitions and prodigious events’ and prophesying the judgment of God upon the King and his Church, in order to stoke the fires of discontent among his majesty’s subjects.
Hooker argued that it was no coincidence that Dryden took the title of these pamphlets, Mirabilis Annus, turned it back to front and used it for his poem, Annus Mirabilis. He describes Dryden’s poem as ‘a piece of inspired journalism’, which was speedily published in the same format as the seditious pamphlets, and was therefore a part of the ‘pamphlet wars’ of the time.
So whether or not the poem helped to stave off a revolution, it is probably also no coincidence that in 1668, the year after he published Annus Mirabilis, John Dryden was appointed Poet Laureate to Charles II.
So the poem was political in origin, but I’m not reading it to you today because of that. I’m sharing it as a magnificent and memorable poetic description of a major historical event.
And I wish there was time to read you more of it, but it’s nearly 400 lines long, which is far too long for the podcast. But here is a link to the full version, so you can read the rest of it if you want to.
OK turning to the poem itself, it’s written in quatrains, four-line stanzas, in very regular iambic pentameters, tiTUM tiTUM tiTUM tiTUM tiTUM, and rhymed ABAB; in other words the first line rhymes with the third line and the second line with the fourth line.
At the time it was more fashionable to write in rhyming couplets, which we looked at a couple of months ago, in Andrew Marvell’s ‘To His Coy Mistress’, which was written around the same time. In fact couplets were so popular that Dryden felt obliged to explain his choice of quatrains in the Preface to Annus Mirabilis:
But in this necessity of our rhymes, I have always found the couplet verse most easy, though not so proper for this occasion: for there the work is sooner at an end, every two lines concluding the labour of the poet; but in quatrains he is to carry it further on, and not only so, but to bear along in his head the troublesome sense of four lines together.
In other words, he felt that quatrains gave him more room to expand on each thought. And he was very much working on the assumption that each quatrain should contain a single thought or scene, that was brought to a conclusion by a full stop, at the end of the stanza.
For instance, here’s the first stanza of the passage I’ve just read:
Such was the rise of this prodigious fire,
Which, in mean buildings first obscurely bred,
From thence did soon to open streets aspire,
And straight to palaces and temples spread.
So we can hear how the stanza contains a single thought, in this case also a single sentence, which is clearly and elegantly expressed, and then concludes with the full stop after ‘straight to palaces and temples spread.’
And notice how Dryden describes the progress of the fire in very balanced terms, starting in the ‘mean buildings’ of the poor and lowly, before spreading to the ‘palaces and temples’ of the high and mighty. This tendency to balance and order was very characteristic of Dryden and the other poets of his age.
Then the next stanza presents us with a new thought, and a new scene, which builds on the previous one, like small panels in a larger painting, or even a comic strip:
The diligence of trades and noiseful gain,
And luxury more late, asleep were laid:
All was the night’s; and in her silent reign
No sound the rest of nature did invade.
Once again, we find opposites brought into play and balanced out in the measured syntax; in this case, Dryden contrasts gainful employment, ‘The diligence of trades and noiseful gain’, with ‘luxury’, which in the 17th century meant ‘debauchery’, indulgence in illicit pleasures. Which is a rather convoluted way of saying that everyone was asleep, including those who had been working hard all day and those who had been drinking and carousing into the night.
And I don’t know about you, but when I hear these lines:
All was the night’s; and in her silent reign
No sound the rest of nature did invade.
I can’t help remembering:
’Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse;
There’s that same sense of anticipation, isn’t there? Because we know what’s coming next:
In this deep quiet, from what source unknown,
Those seeds of fire their fatal birth disclose;
And first few scattering sparks about were blown,
Big with the flames that to our ruin rose.
Then in some close-pent room it crept along,
And, smouldering as it went, in silence fed;
Till the infant monster, with devouring strong,
Walk’d boldly upright with exalted head.
So instead of the divine birth of Christmas, we have the ‘fatal birth’ of the ‘infant monster’. And of course the personification is very artificial and contrived, but I think it’s also very effective, we really do see the monster stand up and walk ‘boldly upright with exalted head’.
Then Dryden’s infant monster suddenly grows up into an adult criminal:
Now like some rich or mighty murderer,
Too great for prison, which he breaks with gold;
Who fresher for new mischiefs does appear,
And dares the world to tax him with the old:
So ’scapes the insulting fire his narrow jail,
And makes small outlets into open air:
There the fierce winds his tender force assail,
And beat him downward to his first repair.
It’s an odd phrase isn’t it, ‘rich or mighty murderer’? Why should a murderer be ‘rich or mighty’? But it’s wittily resolved in the next line:
Too great for prison, which he breaks with gold;
The suggestion is that if you’re rich and mighty, you can buy your freedom, ‘break’ out of prison ‘with gold’. And of course the joke here is that it’s the gold flames that are breaking this particular murderer out of prison.
There was also something of a cult of the heroic criminal among Londoners, as described by Peter Ackroyd in his book, London: The Biography. The most famous of the London jailbreakers was the thief and highwayman Jack Sheppard, who became a local celebrity fifty years after the publication of Annus Mirabilis, by escaping from Newgate Prison no less than six times. These lines might have been written for Jack Sheppard:
Who fresher for new mischiefs does appear,
And dares the world to tax him with the old:
Then the poem’s antihero encounters some resistance, in the shape of the winds that impede his progress:
The winds, like crafty courtesans, withheld
His flames from burning, but to blow them more:
And every fresh attempt he is repell’d
With faint denials weaker than before.
The ‘crafty courtesans’ were high-class prostitutes, associated with the ‘luxury’ of Charles II’s court. And this is a witty take on the old idea that the flames of desire can be fanned by refusal, such as the ‘faint denials’ of the courtesans. There’s also quite a rude pun in this stanza – if you didn’t spot it, then you may congratulate yourself on your virtuous character; if you did, then no sniggering at the back please.
OK moving swiftly on, as indeed the fire is doing by this point, we get this delightfully ghastly scene, on London Bridge, which is where the severed heads of traitors were displayed:
The ghosts of traitors from the bridge descend,
With bold fanatic spectres to rejoice:
About the fire into a dance they bend,
And sing their sabbath notes with feeble voice.
I have to say that compared to this, London Bridge is a bit boring these days. I’m guessing that ‘sabbath’ here refers to a witches’ sabbath, rather than the Judeo-Christian version. That seems to be the implication of the following stanza, where ‘our guardian angel’ looks at the scene in horror and flees, ‘abandoning [the city] to its fate’.
OK, so far Dryden has given us a high level view of the fire, ornamented with images of monsters and ghosts and angels, but now he zooms in on the people of London who are waking up to their fate:
At length the crackling noise and dreadful blaze
Call’d up some waking lover to the sight;
And long it was ere he the rest could raise,
Whose heavy eyelids yet were full of night.
The next to danger, hot pursued by fate,
Half-clothed, half-naked, hastily retire:
And frighted mothers strike their breasts too late,
For helpless infants left amidst the fire.
So fortunately for the people in the houses around him, a lover was awake, presumably about lovers’ business, and he shouted to wake ‘the rest’, ‘Whose heavy eyelids yet were full of night.’.
And then we get this charming glimpse of the waking citizens ‘Half-clothed, half-naked’ – logically, of course, this is tautology, saying the same thing twice, because if you are half clothed, then by definition you must be half naked. But poetically, it works so much better, doesn’t it? It somehow conjures up the confusion of a throng of bodies, or bits of bodies, in various states of undress, as they flee the fire.
And is it heartless of Dryden to casually wrap up the stanza with this image of babies left behind like forgotten possessions?
And frighted mothers strike their breasts too late,
For helpless infants left amidst the fire.
Or maybe it’s just a brutally abrupt description of the brutality of the fire?
Then Dryden continues the action, with this wonderfully precise description of the townsfolk awakening, with the commotion spreading from street to street:
Their cries soon waken all the dwellers near;
Now murmuring noises rise in every street:
The more remote run stumbling with their fear,
And in the dark men jostle as they meet.
Notice that there are no visual images in this stanza: Dryden evokes the scene using first sound, the ‘cries’ and ‘murmuring noises’, and then movement and touch, with people running, stumbling and jostling in the dark streets. It’s a subtle and skilful way of evoking the terror and confusion they must have felt, being woken by yelling voices and then running around in the crowded streets in the dark.
Then we get an artful simile, as Dryden compares the Londoners to ‘weary bees’ in a hive, who are roused to action when a ‘night-robber’ tries to steal their honey:
So weary bees in little cells repose;
But if night-robbers lift the well-stored hive,
An humming through their waxen city grows,
And out upon each other’s wings they drive.
This whole sequence gives us a remarkable high-level vista of the poor humans scurrying about their city. The point of view is like that of Gulliver towering over the tiny Lilliputians – in a poem published 60 years before Jonathan Swift’s famous Travels.
But not all of the Londoners are just running about in a panic. Some of them are leaping into action to fight the fire:
Now streets grow throng’d and busy as by day:
Some run for buckets to the hallow’d quire:
Some cut the pipes, and some the engines play;
And some more bold mount ladders to the fire.
And yes, that’s right, this is a description of an early fire engine. Peter Ackroyd quotes a contemporary description of ‘an Engine or Instrument’, which ‘with the help of tenne men to labor’, could pump more ‘than five hundred men with the helpe of Bucketts and laydels’. And I love the way this stanza concludes with the line:
And some more bold mount ladders to the fire.
So that the line ends, and the whole stanza ends, with the image of the silhouetted figure at the top of the ladder leaning out over the abyss of fire.
But alas, the fire-fighters’ efforts are ‘in vain’, according to the next stanza:
In vain: for from the east a Belgian wind
His hostile breath through the dry rafters sent;
The flames impell’d soon left their foes behind,
And forward with a wanton fury went.
It had to be a foreign wind, didn’t it? 17th century England was a very xenophobic and jingoistic place, so in the aftermath of his descriptions of sea-battles against the Dutch, it’s not surprising that Dryden can’t resist calling the east wind ‘a Belgian wind’.
And then we get the final magnificent stanza of today’s passage:
A quay of fire ran all along the shore,
And lighten’d all the river with a blaze:
The waken’d tides began again to roar,
And wondering fish in shining waters gaze.
The imagery here manages to be simultaneously daring, precise, horrifying and beautiful. He’s saying that as the fire spread rapidly along the shore of the River Thames, it became ‘a quay of fire’, ‘And lighten’d all the river with a blaze:’, which is a quite extraordinary metaphor.
And the effect is heightened by the contrast between the attributes we would normally associate with a stone quay – solidity, darkness, cold, steadiness – with the attributes of fire – light, heat, ephemerality, destructiveness. A normal quay is a haven for ships and a platform for commerce; this is a place of terror.
And if this image weren’t amazing enough, Dryden tops it with this startling change of perspective, where he give us a fishes’ eye view of the fire:
The waken’d tides began again to roar,
And wondering fish in shining waters gaze.
You know, Dryden has often been criticised for being too prosaic; Matthew Arnold famously dismissed Dryden and Pope as ‘prose classics’, but to me this is really remarkable poetry. There are lots of fascinating accounts of the Great Fire of London, but it takes a poet to wonder how it must have looked to the fish in the River Thames.
And I could go on, because Dryden does, at some length – he describes the progress of the fire, the King awakening and doing his best to save his subjects; the miraculous moment when God uses rain-clouds as a fire extinguisher; the scorched aftermath; and the vision of a modern city rising like a phoenix from the flames. So I do encourage you to have a read of the rest.
And before we hear Dryden’s account again, I’d like to read you some of Samuel Pepys’ famous description of the Great Fire of London, so we can see how the two writers took a very different approach to the same subject:
Sunday 2 September 1666
(Lord’s day). Some of our mayds sitting up late last night to get things ready against our feast to-day, Jane called us up about three in the morning, to tell us of a great fire they saw in the City. So I rose and slipped on my nightgowne, and went to her window, and thought it to be on the backside of Marke-lane at the farthest; but, being unused to such fires as followed, I thought it far enough off; and so went to bed again and to sleep. About seven rose again to dress myself, and there looked out at the window, and saw the fire not so much as it was and further off. So to my closett to set things to rights after yesterday’s cleaning. By and by Jane comes and tells me that she hears that above 300 houses have been burned down to-night by the fire we saw, and that it is now burning down all Fish-street, by London Bridge. So I made myself ready presently, and walked to the Tower, and there got up upon one of the high places, Sir J. Robinson’s little son going up with me; and there I did see the houses at that end of the bridge all on fire, and an infinite great fire on this and the other side the end of the bridge; which, among other people, did trouble me for poor little Michell and our Sarah on the bridge. So down, with my heart full of trouble, to the Lieutenant of the Tower, who tells me that it begun this morning in the King’s baker’s house in Pudding-lane, and that it hath burned St. Magnus’s Church and most part of Fish-street already. So I down to the water-side, and there got a boat and through bridge, and there saw a lamentable fire. Poor Michell’s house, as far as the Old Swan, already burned that way, and the fire running further, that in a very little time it got as far as the Steeleyard, while I was there. Everybody endeavouring to remove their goods, and flinging into the river or bringing them into lighters that layoff; poor people staying in their houses as long as till the very fire touched them, and then running into boats, or clambering from one pair of stairs by the water-side to another. And among other things, the poor pigeons, I perceive, were loth to leave their houses, but hovered about the windows and balconys till they were, some of them burned, their wings, and fell down.
This is terrific too isn’t it? And it’s completely different to Dryden’s approach. Instead of the big picture, Pepys give us the first-person perspective, of being woken up in the middle of the night and looking out the window, then getting up and going out into the streets and climbing up to a higher place to get a better view. And we get all the little details, of Pepys’ nightgown, and the names of streets, and glimpses of ‘poor people staying in their houses as long as till the very fire touched them, and then running into boats, or clambering from one pair of stairs by the water-side to another’. And those pigeons hovering ‘about the windows and balconys’ until their wings were singed by the fire.
By contrast, Dryden presents himself as an omniscient narrator, giving us a panoramic view of the city and the fire, zooming in on particular details and then zooming out again. Pepys gives us glimpses of real people, but the figures in Dryden’s account are more like a catalogue of types, carefully chosen, as we’ve seen, to balance out low and high status characters and give arepresentative sample of society – workers and merchants, revellers, murderers, courtesans, traitors, lovers, mothers, infants, and fire fighters.
Whereas Pepys gives us the breathless first-hand account, with all its vividness, Dryden is more artful, both politically, as we have scene, and also poetically. It’s an unashamedly artificial style of writing, where we sense that every element has been carefully considered and composed. Pepys is reporting the fire, but Dryden is using it, even wielding it – it’s as if the poem is narrated by a giant holding up a burning torch to reveal the ancient wooden medieval city of London, illuminating it for a few shining moments before it vanishes forever.
By John Dryden
Such was the rise of this prodigious fire,
Which, in mean buildings first obscurely bred,
From thence did soon to open streets aspire,
And straight to palaces and temples spread.
The diligence of trades and noiseful gain,
And luxury more late, asleep were laid:
All was the night’s; and in her silent reign
No sound the rest of nature did invade.
In this deep quiet, from what source unknown,
Those seeds of fire their fatal birth disclose;
And first few scattering sparks about were blown,
Big with the flames that to our ruin rose.
Then in some close-pent room it crept along,
And, smouldering as it went, in silence fed;
Till the infant monster, with devouring strong,
Walk’d boldly upright with exalted head.
Now like some rich or mighty murderer,
Too great for prison, which he breaks with gold;
Who fresher for new mischiefs does appear,
And dares the world to tax him with the old:
So ’scapes the insulting fire his narrow jail,
And makes small outlets into open air:
There the fierce winds his tender force assail,
And beat him downward to his first repair.
The winds, like crafty courtesans, withheld
His flames from burning, but to blow them more:
And every fresh attempt he is repell’d
With faint denials weaker than before.
And now no longer letted of his prey,
He leaps up at it with enraged desire:
O’erlooks the neighbours with a wide survey,
And nods at every house his threatening fire.
The ghosts of traitors from the bridge descend,
With bold fanatic spectres to rejoice:
About the fire into a dance they bend,
And sing their sabbath notes with feeble voice.
Our guardian angel saw them where they sate
Above the palace of our slumbering king:
He sigh’d, abandoning his charge to fate,
And, drooping, oft look’d back upon the wing.
At length the crackling noise and dreadful blaze
Call’d up some waking lover to the sight;
And long it was ere he the rest could raise,
Whose heavy eyelids yet were full of night.
The next to danger, hot pursued by fate,
Half-clothed, half-naked, hastily retire:
And frighted mothers strike their breasts too late,
For helpless infants left amidst the fire.
Their cries soon waken all the dwellers near;
Now murmuring noises rise in every street:
The more remote run stumbling with their fear,
And in the dark men jostle as they meet.
So weary bees in little cells repose;
But if night-robbers lift the well-stored hive,
An humming through their waxen city grows,
And out upon each other’s wings they drive.
Now streets grow throng’d and busy as by day:
Some run for buckets to the hallow’d quire:
Some cut the pipes, and some the engines play;
And some more bold mount ladders to the fire.
In vain: for from the east a Belgian wind
His hostile breath through the dry rafters sent;
The flames impell’d soon left their foes behind,
And forward with a wanton fury went.
A quay of fire ran all along the shore,
And lighten’d all the river with a blaze:
The waken’d tides began again to roar,
And wondering fish in shining waters gaze.
John Dryden was an English poet, playwright, and critic who was born in 1631 and died in 1700. He was one of the most influential figures in Restoration literature. His major works include Absalom and Achitophel, a political satire, and All for Love, a play inspired by Shakespeare’s Antony and Cleopatra. As England’s first Poet Laureate, Dryden played a key role in shaping the transition from the Renaissance to the Enlightenment in English literature, advocating for clarity, precision, and structure in written expression.
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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The post The Great Fire of London, from Annus Mirabilis by John Dryden appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Carrie Etter reads ‘Pregnant Teenager and Her Mama’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.
Grief’s Alphabet
Grief’s Alphabet is available from:
The publisher: Seren Books
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: UK | US
You eat and eat and tremble.
You tremble and eat, and your mother
watches you like a mouse a cat.
She swoops in like a bat.
You hope to be claimed:
she alights beside you.
Your hands turn palms up, apology.
Kangaroo, she plucks and drops you
into the warmth of her pouch.
What’ll I do? you think,
no need for speech.
Her tongue’s on your fur,
or her love’s your skin.
The year’s a crucible,
and here she is,
a doe who leads
her fawn to water and waits.
O, how she waits.
Mark: Carrie, where did this poem come from?
Carrie: Well, I think it was about a year and a half ago now, maybe two years ago. I was working on Grief’s Alphabet, the manuscript, and pulling together these poems I’d been writing since my mother died in 2011. And when I started to think through what the manuscript needed to look like, I had a lot of poems about the grief of her loss. But I realised, as the manuscript came together, that no one would understand what that loss meant to me unless I also portrayed my relationship with her and what she had been, what she meant to me as a mother, as my best friend, really. And so I had to write the opening section of the manuscript, which I call ‘Origin Story’, which is about our experiences together from the day I was adopted at two weeks old and all the way up to the last photograph I took of her and my last physically recorded memory of her before she died a few months later, unexpectedly.
So, of course, when I was thinking through that period of my relationship with her and important things we experienced together, one of the things, of course, that came up was my teenage pregnancy and trying to convey in a poem just how generous and supportive she was through that experience. I can imagine many another parent would’ve reacted very differently. But she was never anything but kind, supportive. She’s the least judgmental person I think I’ve ever known. And I think having had her, as having been adopted by her and my father is certainly one of the best things that ever happened to me and is part of the reason I turned out a poet to some extent because they always supported whatever I did, and that included poetry from a very early age and short story writing as well.
Mark: Yeah. So, that’s another thing that poets, you know, we’re not always guaranteed support for poetry.
Carrie: No, indeed, I’ve found very different reactions from different relatives and family members to my writing. But my mother, she was my first audience. I ran to her with my poems as an 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old. She was the first person I took my poems to. And, indeed, once I started getting published I would send her, say, contributor copies for her. For those of you who aren’t poets, you may not realise that often we don’t get paid for our poems, but if there is a physical magazine, you’re always sent at least one copy, sometimes several copies of the magazine. So, in fact, when I was in Illinois last month, going through some old things, I found a huge tub of old contributor’s copies I had given her over the years and forgotten about.
And, indeed, there is another poem in the manuscript Grief’s Alphabet about writing my first poem and the necessity of the completion of that poem in some ways being running to and sharing it with her as though the poem was not finished until I’d shared it with her. So, there are a number of poems, like ‘Pregnant Teenager and Her Mama’ in Grief’s Alphabet, that record really difficult things like my father’s layoff, his injury and death, and so on that we went through together and that formed our relationship necessarily. There were a lot of hardships. There were also some moments of joy, I should say, as well in the manuscript. And, indeed, writing that first section, Origin Story, was in the end quite joyous because I understood even more keenly what I had in that relationship and how much it gave me.
Mark: And so she was your first reader. And a lot of writers talk about having an ideal reader in their head when they write. Would you say that she’s a part of that ideal reader? I mean, maybe obviously in this collection, but what about other collections?
Carrie: That’s really interesting because as I’ve been working on the book I’m editing, Claire Crowther’s Sense and Nonsense, I’ve realised that this collection is in some ways perhaps both my most personal and my most accessible. And I’m not sure that I would always… And maybe that was partly because I had her in mind as one of my readers that it turned out that way. And then my next collection with a very different focus that I’m imagining is much less personal and then perhaps would have a much different approach to accessibility and the degree of linguistic and formal complexity, because I’m not imagining her as a reader in the same way as I am in this book, as well as kind of imagining my family, who in the main do not read poetry unless they’ve been keeping it from me. I imagine that this is one that my sisters will actually open. They may come after me for saying that, but I think my books just stay on their shelves unopened for the most part. But, hopefully, this might be an exception.
Mark: Yeah. There are lots of ways to support a writer.
Carrie: Yes. And my family members coming to my events and showing interest in my work. And sometimes they’ve had me come… when my nieces and nephews were younger, they had me come and speak at their schools and things like that, and that’s always really lovely. I love taking poetry to young people in different ways.
Mark: You know, any of us who’ve studied poetry, we’re used to being advised to beware. If a poet says ‘I’ in the poem, it doesn’t necessarily mean the poet themselves is speaking. But this is the opposite of that because the poem is saying you. But even before I’d read the rest of the collection, I kind of picked up that the ‘you’ in this poem related to you, the writer.
Carrie: There’s something really wonderfully nimble about second-person point of view where you both invite any reader to step into the place of the addressee while at the same time being able to refer to a specific person. I think that’s part of the power of the second-person poems in Claudia Rankine’s Citizen that ‘you’ invites us to experience what racial microaggressions are like for ourselves even as we know we are not the ‘you’ to whom this in fact happened.
Mark: And as the poem progresses, ‘you’ fades into the background, and we get ‘she’ and ‘her’ for the mother. And so by the end, it’s the mother. And, in fact, she’s transformed into a doe as well. So, there’s that perspective shift as the poem goes on.
Carrie: One of the endorsements for the book that particularly pleased me was one that noted that, even though there’s a lot of me in this book, I myself am not the focus. The focus is very much on trying to show who my mother was, trying to understand and appreciate who she was. And there’s a line, in fact, at the end of another poem, ‘Lifelong I daughter,’ and this book feels like an act of daughtering.
Mark: Oh, what a lovely functional shift.
Carrie: Yeah. I mean, I love all the… You mentioned the doe, and one of the pleasures of writing this poem was the use of simile and metaphor, playing with the figurative language and broadening her capacity in who she was by her adopting all these different animal identities that seemed quite natural to her.
[Cat meows]
And as I was going to say that my cat walks into the room!
Mark: I was just going to mention the cat!
Carrie: Yeah. I hear he is squawking for us. [Laughter]
Mark: So, you’ve got a mouse, a cat, a bat, a kangaroo, a doe, and the fawn.
Carrie: It’s quite a zoo, isn’t it?
Mark: It is quite the zoo. Maybe you’d like to say something about that.
Carrie: I am in awe of figurative language at its best. I think of phrases like Dylan Thomas’, ‘A wall…’
[Cat meows]
Mark: It’s OK, animals are welcome today!
Carrie: Yes, indeed. Adding to our zoo. He uses the phrase, ‘A wall thin as a wren’s bone.’ Isn’t that beautiful?
Mark: Yeah.
Carrie: And I really wanted to play with that with this particular poem and do my best to make the figurative language work as well as I could to suggest the breadth of her mothering, that it takes on all of these different qualities beyond the human or broadens our sense of what the human is, perhaps.
Mark: I love that. And also what occurred to me when I was reading it was… This goes back to what you were saying about her lack of judgment. Because humans are very good at judging teenage mothers, and yet all the natural imagery just quite subtly suggests this is a natural process. There’s no judgment in the animal kingdom.
Carrie: That’s really a lovely insight. And, indeed, yes, it’s a way to implicitly suggest the absence of judgment in her behaviour. Well, that was not, I have to concede, part of my intention, but I love the fact that that’s part of the joy of readership, is the things that people find that work effectively in the poem that you weren’t conscious of in its construction.
Mark: That’s the magic of poetry, isn’t it? If it’s a real poem, then there’s always more in it, I think, than we’re consciously aware of when we write. I guess another thing it picked up to me it signaled was just the instinctive warmth and comfort. You know, ‘she plucks and drops you / into the warmth of her pouch’. What could be nicer than that? And ‘Her tongue’s on your fur’. I mean, it’s delightful, isn’t it?
Carrie: It is. She was very physically affectionate in that way, always ready to long warm, soft hugs. That physical affection, quick to say, ‘I love you,’ as well. She’s set a model for generosity and affection that continues to nourish me even with the loss of her.
Mark: Well, that really comes across in this poem.
Carrie: I’m so glad for that. I really hope to do her justice with the book.
Mark: And focusing just a little more on the form of the poem, I mean, how close is this to the original draft of the poem?
Carrie: That’s a really good question. I did take this to one of my workshop groups, and we raised some questions about…the phrasing around the bat changed. It became a little bit clearer but not a lot changed. I think one thing… So, while I am devoted to revision and always trying to reach kind of the best version of my poems that I can, and I read them aloud over and over again, try to make sure the sound is working to the best of my ability, sometimes I find that if an idea has stayed with me a long time before I draft it, then a poem close to finished comes out more easily. And so it’s those poems about an experience so many years ago now. We don’t need to say how long it’s been since I’ve been a teenager with my birthday later this month, but it’s been some years.
And I’ve often thought back to her handling of the revelation of my pregnancy, and the way she came to me, and the way we talked about it, and her gentleness and quiet, steady support in that exchange, especially as you see pregnant teenagers represented on television, and film, and novels so differently. The contrast brought into relief what I had. And so I think the fact that that memory is so strong, and I’ve revisited it so often, made this poem that little bit easier to get right in an earlier draft of the process. Other poems take 20 drafts. I think this was three or four. But, again, I think that’s very much to do with how long the poem lived with me.
Mark: So, I was about to say this poem had a long gestation, but then I realised what I was saying. [Laughter]
Carrie: Indeed, it did have a long gestation.
Mark: A mysterious creative process. Also as well, I think it’s probably true that your years of practice meant that it was relatively easy for you to draft it so quickly.
Carrie: Some poems come… So, the opening poem in the manuscript ‘Birthday as Adoption Day’ about the day that I was picked up from the hospital at two weeks old, I wrote at least 10 completely different drafts of that poem because I couldn’t get it right. I couldn’t find the right use of form and point of view that felt that I got the right vehicle. And so that took a lot more redrafting. And then once I found the right kind of version then even more tinkering after that. So, it varies widely, poem to poem, how many drafts it takes, how much editing. I do run everything by… The whole manuscript has been read by a number of fellow poets. And I have two wonderful workshop groups, one in London I don’t get to very often and one here in the Southwest that I visit more regularly, that are great for feedback on my work, as well as a fiction workshop group as well. So, I do a lot of workshopping.
Mark: And just looking a bit more closely at the opening, I mean, you’ve got…so ‘Pregnant Teenager and Her Mama.’ I mean, you put the pregnant teenager front and centre there, which is bold and provocative for the reasons we’ve just discussed. But you don’t say, ‘and her Mother,’ you say, ‘and her Mama,’ which sounds much more homely and familiar. So, you’ve got that kind of…it’s almost inviting the judgment but then the warmth coming right away.
Carrie: Yeah, I think that’s really important, that sense that this is someone…that if this pregnant teenager were to speak in this moment, that she would use something very familiar like that because of the intimacy of this exchange. I have a lot of different names for my mother that come throughout the book. In fact, the most common one, the name I called her from when I was very little, was Modie instead of Mommy. And Modie comes up a lot in the book, but if you have the poem by itself, someone would see Modie and not be sure whether I’m referring to a person’s name or my mother. So, it felt that I had to use Mama in this particular case so that immediately you read the title and you know what the relationship is.
Mark: Yeah. That’s that warmth. It’s like the whole poem in microcosm in the title. And then this wonderful opening where you’ve got so much repetition, ‘You eat and eat and tremble. You tremble and eat and your mother.’ That’s the first two lines. We’ve got four ‘and’s, which beginners would be warned off. You’ve got ‘eat’ repeated, ‘tremble’ repeated, and ‘you’ repeated, and yet, well, to me at least, it beautifully conveys that awkwardness and the helplessness of the teenager that this, ‘Well, I’m doing this and I’m doing, and I’m just…’ Sorry, I’m raising my hands here. [Laughter] You can’t see this, as it’s on the podcast.
Carrie: It’s true. I was voracious during that time. In my first trimester, I was so hungry, and I was trying to keep this pregnancy to myself. And I was so scared because I really wasn’t sure what to do. I believe in women’s right to choose, and I felt that way then. I did consider abortion, but I had decided to give my son up for adoption instead. And I’m very grateful… I don’t judge anyone for making a different choice, but I’m very grateful for what I’ve done, not least because I now have a relationship with my son. As you may know from my book, Imagined Sons, which I wrote before I found him, it was as painful as it was to give him up. I know I gave him a better life than I certainly could have provided at that stage in my life. And I certainly also didn’t want to bring that kind of hardship onto my own family either after all we’d been through. I mean, my father was still laid off at that point. And that was really not an option. So, adoption ended up being the right thing for me at that time, but it’s not something I would prescribe for anyone else.
Mark: Sure. Okay. And then we get, ‘She swoops in like a bat. / You hope to be claimed: / she alights beside you.’ Sorry, I’m not reading it as beautifully as you do. ‘And then your hands turn palms up, apology.’ So, it occurred to me that this is all gesture. There’s no speech. And later on, you say this, ‘What’ll I do? you think, / no need for speech.’ And, again, this is the animal thing, isn’t it? They don’t speak. But they express through action and gesture.
Carrie: Yeah. She comes and sits with me. And just from her posture and way of looking at me, I know there’s no judgment coming. I know she’s fully there to put her arms around me and hold me through this. And I can’t imagine what I needed more at that point than that uncritical, unjudgmental love, the greatest thing that a parent can give to a child.
Mark: And then I think this is the only non-animal image in the poem, is when you say ‘the year’s a crucible’, which, I mean…so I’m thinking we had Luke Palmer a couple of episodes ago, and he was talking about alchemy. And this is obviously an alchemical image of transformation. I mean, would you like to say anything about that?
Carrie: Sure. I suppose so in the midst of all of these animal images and the sense of this exchange within love, part of what makes that so powerful has been just how excruciating this experience has been for the speaker, for the you. And so it kind of steps out and provides a sense… You have context from ‘Pregnant Teenager,’ certainly. But ‘The year’s a crucible’ widens that out to being in high school and dealing with this, dealing with the father of this child, all of the hell that this experience has been. And so it’s a way of a intentional, sharp contrast between the positive animal imagery and the difficulty of the experience. And so this moment is a kind of a haven amid the larger endurance of one of the most difficult things I ever experienced.
Mark: Yeah. And then it leads into this really, for me, beautifully judged ending, ‘And here she is, / a doe who leads / her fawn to water and waits. / Oh, how she waits.’ It’s one of those endings that it’s not tying things up in a little bow. It’s not signalling too much to the reader, you know? I mean, and in a sense, I was thinking, ‘Well, it’s quite brave.’ You’re waiting for the reader to get it. Was there a decision to make about that, or did you just think, ‘No, that’s the ending?’
Carrie: No, although I have to say I have read a wonderful essay by Joy Katz called ‘Goodbye, Goodbye, Goodbye.’ It’s basically on the use of repetition in poems and on the sense that we overuse repetition. And this is a poem where I really indulge in repetition, particularly at the beginning and the end of the poem. I love repetition. I tend to think poets don’t do it enough.
Mark: It’s one of the great joys of poetry, isn’t it?
Carrie: Maybe it’s a difference between American and British contemporary poetry, but I tend to see, at least in my teaching, students underusing it.
Mark: In Britain or…
Carrie: Well, because Joy Katz is writing in an American context and quoting American poets overrelying on repetition. I have not done… I’m probably going to get myself in trouble here because I’m sure, as soon as this goes out, people are going to be sending me whole magazines…
Mark: Of course they are! [Laughter]
Carrie: …where every poem uses repetition, and that would be well deserved. But I really felt that the power of repetition at the beginning is to convey the tension, the nervousness of the speaker caught in this cycle she can’t break out of on her own, which is why she hopes to be claimed. There seems to be no way forward. And at the end, it’s the loving patience of a mother who will simply sit and listen. And, again, that sense of something offering up a kind of nourishment that only she can provide and simply waiting for the daughter to do the right thing for herself, whatever that turns out to be.
So, yes, I mean, there were… I think I had a version without the last line, but I was already working in tercets, so that might’ve been why, sorry, three-line stanzas, I should say, why it felt incomplete, but I also wanted to pay attention to the fact that it’s not just about what she did, but it’s the way she did it, that how, the emphasis on not simply listening, but listening with a sense of complete lack of judgment and support and calling attention to the rareness and specialness of that response.
Mark: Right. So, just the patience.
Carrie: That how, that ‘how she waits,’ that waiting with a kind of care. There’s a way when people are in difficulty that simply being there can be nourishing.
Mark: Absolutely. Well, talking of repetition, I think it’s time to hear the poem again. And, Carrie, thank you so much for sharing so generously about such a powerful and personal poem.
Carrie: Thank you for having me. I am happy it’s going to reach a wider audience.
You eat and eat and tremble.
She swoops in like a bat.
Your hands turn palms up, apology.
What’ll I do? you think,
or her love’s your skin.
a doe who leads
‘Pregnant Teenager and Her Mama’ is from Grief’s Alphabet by Carrie Etter, published by Seren Books.
Grief’s Alphabet is available from:
The publisher: Seren Books
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: UK | US
Originally from Normal, Illinois, Carrie Etter has lived in England since 2001 and teaches creative writing at the University of Bristol. Her poems have appeared in Boston Review, The New Republic, The New Statesman, The Penguin Book of the Prose Poem, Poetry Review, The Times Literary Supplement and many other journals and anthologies internationally. Her fifth collection, Grief’s Alphabet, is published by Seren Books. She also writes short stories, essays, and reviews.
CarrieEtter.com
Photo: Fabrizia Costa
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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Mark McGuinness reads and discusses ‘To His Coy Mistress’ by Andrew Marvell.
Andrew Marvell
Mark McGuinness
By Andrew Marvell
Had we but world enough and time,
This coyness, lady, were no crime.
We would sit down, and think which way
To walk, and pass our long love’s day.
Thou by the Indian Ganges’ side
Shouldst rubies find; I by the tide
Of Humber would complain. I would
Love you ten years before the flood,
And you should, if you please, refuse
Till the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires and more slow;
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine eyes, and on thy forehead gaze;
Two hundred to adore each breast,
But thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show your heart.
For, lady, you deserve this state,
Nor would I love at lower rate.
But at my back I always hear
Time’s wingèd chariot hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity.
Thy beauty shall no more be found;
Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound
My echoing song; then worms shall try
That long-preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust;
The grave’s a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.
Now therefore, while the youthful hue
Sits on thy skin like morning dew,
And while thy willing soul transpires
At every pore with instant fires,
Now let us sport us while we may,
And now, like amorous birds of prey,
Rather at once our time devour
Than languish in his slow-chapped power.
Let us roll all our strength and all
Our sweetness up into one ball,
And tear our pleasures with rough strife
Through the iron gates of life:
Thus, though we cannot make our sun
Stand still, yet we will make him run.
This is a seductive poem in every sense. It’s pretty up front about its seductive intentions – it’s in the voice of a 17th century gentleman, addressing a ‘coy mistress’, and entreating her to less careful of her ‘honour’ and to seize the pleasures of the fleeting day.
And the poem also seduced me, when I was leafing through my copy of Marvell’s poems and deciding which one to read for you on the podcast. I remember thinking, ‘I’m not going to do that one, it’s so well known, it’s too famous for its own good’.
It’s one of the most quoted poems in English, phrases like ‘time’s wingèd chariot’ and ‘world enough, and time’ are everyday figures of speech. And it’s been plundered for titles of not only novels and movies, but also episodes of Star Trek and Dr Who, not to mention the countless allusions to the poem by other poets, novelists and screenwriters.
But then I was leafing through the book and I read the first few lines, and I was drawn in, and found myself marvelling – if you’ll excuse the pun! – marvelling all over again at this poem. At its wit, its elegance, its darkness, and also its sense of the urgency and precariousness and preciousness of life. So here we go.
The idea that life is short and we should make the most of it while we can is hardly an original thought, and it’s found in some of the earliest recorded poetry, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Ancient Egyptian ‘Song of the Harper’, both of which date from around 2,000 BC.
By Roman times, ‘carpe diem’, meaning ‘seize’ or ‘pluck the day’, was a well-known phrase from the poet Horace, who wrote lots of verse on this theme. And in the 17th century, when Marvell was writing, it was a common theme, in poems such as Robert Herrick’s, ‘Gather ye rosebuds while ye may’ and Edmund Waller’s ‘Go, lovely rose’.
And boys being boys, many male poets have seized on the carpe diem motif as an attempt to persuade coy maidens to – well, to stop being coy maidens.
And ‘To His Coy Mistress’ is the exemplar of this kind of poem, balancing the conventions of courtly love with philosophical musings on time, death and eternity. Is it a profoundly metaphysical poem that meditates on the ephemeral nature of love and life? Or a shameless attempt to enlist high-falutin concepts in the service of carnal instincts? Well, if I’ve learned one thing from reading Marvell over many years, it’s not to jump to conclusions.
So the poem is written in three verse paragraphs, which correspond to three stages of an argument, which has been described as ‘If… But… Therefore…’, and which we can summarise thus:
IF we had ‘world enough and time’, then I’d love to take my time about wooing you.
BUT at my back I always hear / Times wingèd chariot hurrying near’ – in other words, life is short, so we don’t have time to be patient.
THEREFORE we should ‘tear our pleasures with rough strife / Thorough the iron gates of life’ — and tear each other’s clothes off before its too late.
And let’s give the poet his due, there is more than a grain of truth in this argument. None of us are here forever, so why not make hay while the sun shines?
But of course, just because we might be tempted to make some hay, it doesn’t necessarily follow that we’d want to do it with the nearest person to hand. But the speaker of the poem glides smoothly over this fact, and presents his ‘mistress’ with a binary choice: come to bed with me or regret your virginity for all eternity.
So what the poem presents us with is a syllogism, a technical philosophical term which has come to mean a specious argument, where the conclusion may sound plausible, but doesn’t necessarily follow from the premise. And it’s all very well saying so, but it doesn’t really prepare us for the seductive power of the poem itself.
Let’s take the opening two lines, which posit the ‘if’ on which the argument of the whole poem depends:
Had we but world enough and time,
I can really hear the speaker’s voice here, as if we were overhearing him talking to the lady, strolling along in an elegant frock coat and wig, in the beautifully designed garden of an English country house. Marvell wrote lots of beautiful descriptions of such gardens in his other poems, so that every time I visit a country house, it feels like I’m inside a Marvell poem. So I can’t help picturing this poem being spoken on a leisurely walk among the flowers and quinces and pears and topiary, with an ornamental lake in the distance.
And the speaker’s tone is very relaxed, friendly, and charming – but also slightly mocking and ironic. And the statement sounds perfectly reasonable and plausible, until we take a closer look.
Had we but world enough and time,
So he’s saying, ‘If we had all the time in the world, your coyness, your modesty, your unwillingness to entertain my advances, would not be a crime’. And notice how he’s slipped that word ‘crime’ into the sentence, right at the end. He’s using the rhetorical technique of presupposition – talking about coyness as a crime, as if that were an established fact. Whereas in fact, it’s nothing of the sort – coyness and modesty were conventionally considered virtues, within the moral and gender norms of Marvell’s day.
And of course, the speaker knows this. And I think we can safely assume his mistress knows this too. so I don’t think we’re meant to take this at face value. It is transparently deceptive. But transparent deception is a paradox. So within two lines and one sentence, we’re already dealing with multiple layers of irony. He’s joking, but he’s also serious. And she knows this, and he knows that she knows this, and so on…
And Marvell is not just relying on his flimsy logic. He is bolstering his argument with all the cunning arts of poetry. Listen again:
Had we but world enough and time,
Can you hear that? That regular, lulling, hypnotic metre is iambic tetrameter, ti TUM ti TUM ti TUM ti TUM. He kicks it off with a reversed foot, TUM ti, ‘Had we’, as if he were stepping out at the start of his walk, and offering the lady his arm. And then it becomes as regular as a slow and steady walking rhythm:
Had we but world enough and time,
Notice how the full rhyme of ‘time’ and ‘crime’ create the illusion of clinching the argument, making it sound truer than true. And I think this illusion of conclusiveness is one reason for the growing popularity of the couplet form in the late 17th century and into the 18th century. This was the Age of Reason, when writers wanted to sound rational and convincing. They liked to wrap things up in a little neat bow, and couplets are a great way to do this. So much so, that I think they should almost come with an advisory warning – reader beware! This poem is not necessarily to be trusted.
Anyway. We’re only two lines in, and we’re already in danger of falling under Marvell’s spell.
So having kicked off by wishing he had all the time in the world, the speaker tells his mistress what he would love to do in that case:
We would sit down, and think which way
In this scenario, where time is no object, they will be free to pass their ‘long love’s day’ – what a beautifully languorous phrase – in the most extravagant fashion. In true courtly love style, he could ‘complain’, mope about in love, by the Humber estuary, in the city of Hull, where Marvell grew up and later served as a Member of Parliament. And all this while she could be far away in India.
He would love her from before the Biblical flood, a proverbially long time ago, until ‘the conversion of the Jews’, which 17th century Christians rather arrogantly assumed would happen just before the destruction of the world, on the Day of Judgment. In other words, the two of them could stretch out their courting from ancient times until the end of the world.
Next, we get this startling couplet:
My vegetable love should grow
There are a lot of weird images in Marvell, and ‘vegetable love’ is a prime exhibit, suggesting the slower timescale of the plant world compared to humans. And perhaps other things too.
Then we get another feature of courtly love poetry, which we’ve seen before, in Episode 50 about Christopher Smart’s Cat Jeoffry – the catalogue of the beloved’s attributes:
An hundred years should go to praise
But if the catalogue had been done a thousand times before – and rest assured it had, even by the 17th century – it can rarely have been done with such wit or such elegance, or with such naughty humour as that rhyme of ‘breast’ with ‘the rest’.
And then Marvell ends the first verse paragraph, the ‘IF’ section of the poem, by underlining his faux reluctance to ask her to hurry:
For, lady, you deserve this state,
And on the subject of witty rhymes, isn’t that a marvellously abrupt descent? From ‘state’ to ‘rate’? I guess it’s possible to read ‘rate’ as relating to speed, but the connotations of ‘price’ are hard to ignore; on the one hand he’s saying ‘you are a high class lady’, but it comes dangerously close to ‘high maintenance’, or even ‘high ticket’.
So he’s saying that of course she deserves this ‘state’, this absurdly protracted wooing. But what can he do?
But at my back I always hear
So we are now entering the BUT section of the poem, in the middle paragraph. Where he says he would love to wait, but time waits for no man – nor woman neither, as Hamlet would say. And time arrives in a splendid ‘wingèd chariot’, and I’m sure Marvell would appreciate the irony of that wonderful phrase granting immortality to this line about ephemerality.
And the swiftness of time means that the speaker and his mistress will soon be lost in the ‘Deserts of vast eternity’, a wonderful description of death that manages to be both a euphemism and horrifying.
Now strictly speaking, it’s nonsense to say ‘eternity’ lies ‘before us’, because eternity is outside of time, it has no beginning and no end. But as creatures of time, this is how it appears to us when we contemplate death. So I’m pretty sure Philip Larkin had these lines at the back of his mind when he wrote his devastating poem about death, ‘The Old Fools’.
Anyway. Faced with this memento mori, Marvell’s speaker does not, as we might expect, start to think about the state of his soul, or reach for philosophical consolation. No, he’s far more concerned that the two of them are in danger of missing a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for pleasure:
Thy beauty shall no more be found;
And once again, it’s really hard to describe the tone of this, there’s nothing else quite like it in English poetry. It begins with a genuine sense of mortality, and even mourning, with the poet’s ‘echoing song’ in the ‘marble vault’. But it’s flipped almost immediately into a blatant attempt to lure his mistress into bed. There’s a kind of macabre, mocking humour that at the same time is weirdly compelling.
And perhaps most weirdly of all, none of this stops this being a genuinely moving and thought-provoking poem about the transience of life. T. S. Eliot put it better than I can, when he described tone of this poem as an ‘alliance of levity and seriousness (by which the seriousness is intensified)’.
And there is at least one extremely rude pun in these lines, that I won’t dare to elucidate, even with my Apple Podcast explicit tag switched on. If you’re a Chaucer fan, you’ll know exactly what I mean; but if you are offended by crude language, then look away now.
OK, here are the final lines of the second section, the ‘BUT’ section:
The grave’s a fine and private place,
There’s a delicious horror to this, isn’t there? At a later date, this kind of thing would be called Gothic. And it partly works because of something I learned when I was a hypnotherapist, and that is negative suggestion.
So if I say, ‘Don’t think of a pink elephant’, what do you think of? That’s right! A pink elephant. Maybe you imagine an X crossing it out, but the pink elephant is there as an image in your mind, because there’s no way to picture the opposite of an image.
And so when Marvell writes, ‘But none, I think, do there embrace’, it conjures up the image of two dead bodies or skeletons embracing in the grave. Which is a pretty horrifying image. And I’m sure the speaker knows exactly what he’s doing here. He’s putting the frighteners on her, which makes the image even more dark and disturbing, within the world of the poem. But outside of that world, when we consider this as a piece of poetry, then it’s frankly superb. It’s no wonder these lines are so famous, and so widely quoted.
In the history of poetry, this feels like a mid-point, between the earlier Jacobean metaphysics of John Donne, and the emerging elegance of the heroic couplet, in poets including Marvell’s contemporary John Dryden and later on, Alexander Pope. So heroic couplets are written in iambic pentameter, slightly longer than the iambic tetrameter Marvell is using here. And Dryden and Pope have a comparable wit and eloquence to Marvell, but they don’t have the heart of darkness that we find at the centre of ‘To His Coy Mistress’.
And yet the poem doesn’t end with darkness, but with light. In the third and final section, the ‘THEREFORE’ section, Marvell’s speaker proposes a solution to the riddle of death:
Now therefore, while the youthful hue
We’re still young, he says, so ‘let us sport us while we may’. Which is a fairly conventionally poetic way of putting it. But then we get this slightly troubling comparison to ‘amorous birds of prey’. Now birds are nice and romantic, but why do they need to be birds of prey? It’s a bit disturbing, isn’t it? Especially when followed by the images of ‘devouring’ and the ‘slow-chapped power’ of the jaws of time. So in spite of his evident enthusiasm, it suggests at least an ambivalence about sex, and maybe an undercurrent of violence as well as desire.
And then the poem ends with this extraordinary image:
Let us roll all our strength and all
So Marvell was very far from being the first poet to wish the sun would stand still, so he would have more time with his lover. On this podcast, we’ve already heard John Donne asking the rising sun, ‘must to thy motions lovers’ seasons run?’. And Marvell’s contemporary, Robert Herrick, in his ‘Gather ye rosebuds while ye may’ poem, reminds ‘coy’ lovers that the sun’s ‘race’ will soon be run. But this is a very idiosyncratic treatment of the theme, even by Marvell’s standards.
At first, it’s not even clear that he’s talking about the sun. He invites his mistress to join him in rolling ‘all our strength and all / Our sweetness up into one ball’, which sounds like they’re going to make a giant snowball together. Then he wants to ‘tear our pleasures with rough strife / Thorough the iron gates of life’. So with the ball image still firmly in our minds, this conjures up a picture of the lovers pushing a giant ball through a pair of iron gates, which is frankly bizarre. It sounds like something out of James and the Giant Peach or Takeshi’s Castle.
As we have seen, Marvell’s verse abounds in disconcertingly strange imagery. And in his essay on Marvell, T. S. Eliot says he doesn’t always get away with it. But in this instance, I think he does. It’s ridiculous, but somehow it works, even though I can’t quite work out why. And it reaches a terrific conclusion:
Thus, though we cannot make our sun
There’s an acceleration in that final line, which means the poem takes off, just as it looks like its running out of road. The ‘If’ and ‘But’ have been transmuted into ‘even though’. After spending 45 lines resisting the forward momentum of time and of the sun, the poem suddenly decides to gowith it.
And on one level, it’s a facile ploy, a part of the speaker’s transparent seduction technique. But at one and the same time, as we have seen, this frivolously erotic poem is also a genuine meditation on death. So I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to also read this ending as a joyful assent to life itself.
So, that is Andrew Marvell’s ‘To His Coy Mistress’. And if ever a poem was begging for a response, it’s this one, isn’t it? Because we never hear from the mistress herself, or even glimpse her, so it’s anybody’s guess what she made of it.
And inevitably, other poets have risen to the challenge, and written responses in the voice of the mistress. Annie Finch has a delightfully terse reply in her poem ‘Coy Mistress’, and A. D. Hope’s ‘His Coy Mistress to Mr Marvell’ is a take-down that is even longer than the original.
I’ll include links to both of those poems in the show notes on the website, and if you know of any other poems written in the voice of the Coy Mistress, I’d love to hear them!
But I don’t think it was an oversight that Marvell doesn’t include the Coy Mistress’s perspective in the poem, and it feels a bit too easy to dismiss this as chauvinistic disregard for her point of view. A poet as clever as Marvell would have been well aware that he’d presented readers with one half of a dialogue, and that we would naturally start to fill in the other half with our imagination.
Nowadays, we’re used to reading poems as if the ‘I’ of the poem is the same as the ‘I’ of the poet. And it’s certainly possible that the poem was inspired by a real woman Andrew Marvell knew. Even in that case, it’s pretty clear that the speaker of the poem sees courtship as a game, and his ambiguous tone suggests it’s finely balanced whether he’s playing to win, or simply for the fun of it.
And it’s also possible to read this poem as a dramatic monologue, written more for its effect on the reader, than to express a private passion. In which case, it’s hard to escape the feeling that this most subtle of poets is playing a delightful and disconcerting game with us.
By Andrew Marvell
Had we but world enough and time,
This coyness, lady, were no crime.
We would sit down, and think which way
To walk, and pass our long love’s day.
Thou by the Indian Ganges’ side
Shouldst rubies find; I by the tide
Of Humber would complain. I would
Love you ten years before the flood,
And you should, if you please, refuse
Till the conversion of the Jews.
My vegetable love should grow
Vaster than empires and more slow;
An hundred years should go to praise
Thine eyes, and on thy forehead gaze;
Two hundred to adore each breast,
But thirty thousand to the rest;
An age at least to every part,
And the last age should show your heart.
For, lady, you deserve this state,
Nor would I love at lower rate.
But at my back I always hear
Time’s wingèd chariot hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity.
Thy beauty shall no more be found;
Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound
My echoing song; then worms shall try
That long-preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust;
The grave’s a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.
Now therefore, while the youthful hue
Sits on thy skin like morning dew,
And while thy willing soul transpires
At every pore with instant fires,
Now let us sport us while we may,
And now, like amorous birds of prey,
Rather at once our time devour
Than languish in his slow-chapped power.
Let us roll all our strength and all
Our sweetness up into one ball,
And tear our pleasures with rough strife
Through the iron gates of life:
Thus, though we cannot make our sun
Stand still, yet we will make him run.
Andrew Marvell was an English poet and politician who was born in 1621 and died in 1678. Many of his poems reveal surprising depths in relatively minor subjects, as in the seductive ‘To His Coy Mistress’, or his descriptions of gardens and pastoral scenes. Marvell served as Member of Parliament for Hull during the English Civil War and later the Restoration. The nimbleness required to navigate such changing times is reflected in the ambiguous tone of his ‘Horatian Ode Upon Cromwell’s Return from Ireland’. He served as Latin Secretary to Cromwell’s Council of State, alongside John Milton, and contributed a poem, ‘On Mr Milton’s Paradise Lost’ to the second edition of his friend’s great poem.
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
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The post To His Coy Mistress by Andrew Marvell appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Luke Palmer reads ‘Homunculus by the Shore’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.
Homunculus
Homunculus is available from:
The publisher: Broken Sleep Books
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: US
at the tideline with my father we are the only uprights
sea skidding white fur up the strand sea always arriving
coming to me and arriving at me like an eager dog
bringing all its versions the rotten smell of itself
my father digs with his big toe the sea goes through that
he says waves don’t break they go down
the hill of the sea is inside out waves roll up it
all the way to the top they end at my feet
my father swings me high over the waves
that go down forever down to the sea’s throat
belching out water the sea is a generous element
it will hold you up it will let you in
he plants my feet in the water the water sucks at them
like a hungry tongue I’m brought to the edge
teetering in two places at once against the flat world
wind stings the line of my lips salt in the corners of my feet
Mark: Luke, where did this poem come from?
Luke: So I’d already written quite a few homunculus poems before this one came along. The homunculus is the central character, I suppose, or voice rather of my first collection. And he’s the preformationalist child of an alchemist. 16th-century alchemists, as well as the philosopher’s stone, had this idea of this homunculus, this child born without sin that would also become the key to eternal life.
And so the homunculus, it’s Paracelsus’s homunculus, the infamous alchemist and firebrand figure of kind of pre-Renaissance thought, I suppose. And I wanted to kind of cast Paracelsus as a bit of a single father figure, I suppose, with this preformationalist sinless child.
And so the ‘Homunculus By the Shore’ poem came quite late, I suppose, in this sequence as just another way of looking at this relationship. What are the things that a father and a son would do together? So I kind of imagined them by the sea, in this instance, not a nice kind of seaside day. To me, it’s a kind of dreary, overcast, kind of February half term, let’s go for a walk on the beach, kind of sea rather than a kind of, you know, kiss me quick and lots of, you know, sun tan lotion and that kind of stuff.
So, yeah, the poem fits into a kind of a sequence, I suppose, of homunculus poems exploring this father-son relationship, and the son looking at the father and the father looking back at the son as this key to eternal life and living forever, I suppose.
Mark: Okay. So just so we’re clear, the homunculus has been created by the alchemist, brought into the world…
Luke: Yeah. Paracelsus’ recipe was that you take a human sperm and you grow it, for him, it was within a horse. You put it in a horse’s womb. The preformationalists thought that the human sperm, the male sperm is what contained all of the ingredients, I suppose, for a child. And for them, a woman was just where it grew. That’s just where you put it to bring it on, I suppose, like a seed.
And so for Paracelsus, this homunculus, his mother’s a horse. He’s grown inside a horse earlier on in the collection. And, yeah, so he’s born therefore, you know, without the need for sex or sin or anything like that. So he’s kind of immaculately conceived, this child.
Mark: Gosh. So there’s quite a lot of resonances for this. On the one hand, you’ve got all the theological father-son, immaculate conception stuff, and was artificial intelligence anywhere at the back of your mind as you were writing this?
Luke: I’ve played with AI before, just that I really enjoy the kind of the crazy logic of AI poems, I think. So that idea of something coming out of nothing is definitely, yeah, AI’s in the same ballpark, I think. And, yeah, that kind of creating something almost so unexperienced and naive as to be, I mean, I find the AI poems really funny, the strange connections that AI comes up with, completely when you’re just looking at words, almost completely divorced from semantics is a really interesting field to, to play around with. So there’s definitely that element is plugged in, I suppose, the idea of, yeah, a child who’s supposed to be, yeah, bringer of eternal life, but also is completely divorced from life itself, really.
Mark: Yeah. And yet it’s weirdly relatable, I mean, I think those of us who live near the sea can relate to standing there with a parent looking out at the sea. I’ll never forget taking our kids to the sea for the first time when they were really small and, you know, the look on their face, ‘What the hell is that?’
Luke: Indeed. Yeah. I think I do want it to feel very, very human, I think. And very, again, like I said, it’s not a special day out, it’s a dreary walk by the sea. One of the main inspirations, I think when I kind of came up with the idea was the Caspar David Friedrich picture, The Monk by the Sea. Which to me is a beautiful image of, you know, bleak seascape. And the image has almost no trunkage in it. There’s no verticals in it at all, apart from this tiny little monk who’s standing right on the foreshore against this huge, mostly sky, actually, there’s not a lot of sea in the picture, apart from some angry-looking kind of white waves and the kind of horribly cold looking North Sea.
But that bleakness, that isolation, I think that’s something that runs through the homunculus’s journey in the book and also in Paracelsus’s story as well, from what I’ve read about him, of just this feeling outcast, really. This being a figure that’s so kind of at the cutting edge of what he’s doing, the misunderstandings and his constant need, I guess, or constantly being asked to explain himself seemed to me to kind of push him way outside of society, I suppose.
And I guess this image of a father and a son standing by the ocean is them. They’re at the brink of something, I think they’re at the edge and that sense of, you know, quotidian, everydayness is kind of blended with, for me, at least, a real sense of them being out on their own, like, these are the only two creatures left in the world almost. And that painting was a really useful kind of visual touchstone, I guess, to try and to try and capture that.
Mark: Yeah. I’ll put a link to the painting in the show notes, and I mean, you’ve got that wonderful half-line, ‘We are the only uprights.’ It says so much, it’s so evocative. And so Paracelsus for us, you know, he’s kind of old fashioned, but at the time, what he was doing was kind of cutting edge and controversial, wasn’t it?
Luke: It was, and in particular, one of the things I really liked about going back through his old writings and interpretations of his writings is his idea of equivalence really, and his idea of how the world is structured and how people are structured. I mean, this is kind of before Renaissance, no one was really peeling people and looking at how we work.
So one of the things I really wanted to pick up on was the alchemist idea of inversion, the idea that something on the outside is reflected on its inside. And so here the sea takes that on, the idea that the sea is flipped in some way. And what happens if waves don’t come up through the sea? What happens if they’re on the way down? What happens if the sea is the same above as it is below?
And perhaps those isolated figures standing on the foreshore are looking for that mirror. They’re looking for that mirror image, something that can reflect themselves back and something that will hold them, that line about the sea being something that will hold you up. That kind of water is, you know, the buoyancy in water, but also you’re kind of entering it at the same time as being held by it. You know, there’s two things happening at once there, I suppose. So, yeah, that’s kind of going through the poem as well as the other poems, the homunculus poems in the book.
Mark: So, folks, when you see the text, the bits where the father is speaking are in italics. Are those direct quotes from Paracelsus, or was it you channelling him?
Luke: They’re not, no, they’re me channelling. There are a fair few epigraphs not for this poem, but there are a fair few homunculus poems that do come with epigraphs of Paracelsus’s words, but the italicised bits, they’re me.
Mark: But they do sound very authentic. And I think that’s the point where you, you know, at a first reading, okay, I registered the word homunculus, but you know, ‘at the tide line with my father’, I’m suddenly there with my father, or, you know, just imagining a normal father-child relationship. But it’s when he starts coming out with these theories about the waves going down and the hill of the sea being inside out, I’m starting to think, okay, this is a little bit different to the usual father-son situation.
Luke: Yeah. With my own children, I think there’s definitely, you take on this, I don’t know, this mantle for want of a better word, of, you know, I am the person through whom my children will learn about the world. But I guess what if your version of the world is so at odds with everyone else’s or with the world itself, that you know that, what if your version of the world is so at odds that you are struggling to explain it at every step of the way?
I suppose that you’ve got this child in front of you who is pure, perfectly good, and wonderful as they all are and then you are trying to bring them this complexity, I suppose, this whole range of the, you know, metaphysics of the world and how the world is put together and plugged in. I think, yeah, that’s something I as a father definitely deal with quite a lot. Yeah. So I think, yeah, Paracelsus here, or the alchemist, the father needed to be doing it too.
Mark: Yeah. I think my experience is, you know, the window of oracle-like authority, it doesn’t last that long! [Laughter] It doesn’t, but anyway you know, within the poem, the homunculus is this innocent narrator, so you get the sense that he, she, or it is swallowing this whole, this is what father says, and this is the way the world works.
Luke: Yeah, definitely. I think that later on, perhaps in the book, that there’s a few poems where the homunculus starts to sit a little bit at odds with the father. And there’s a little bit of side-eye, shall we say, later on. But at this point, yeah, definitely the homunculus is going for it kind of hook line and sinker and is being shown this wonderful, miraculous world by their, you know, firebrand half-mad dad.
Mark: And so, you know, I haven’t seen the whole collection yet, so I don’t know if there’s a moment where the homunculus comes to life for the father, but at what point did the homunculus come to life for you as a poet? You know, when you realise because you’ve got this whole sequence of poems about this character or persona.
Luke: So homunculus means… it doesn’t mean much apart from ‘little man’, I suppose. and the idea of a little man has been used in science, you know, for ages. I mean, nowadays, if you Google ‘homunculus’, you get an image of a little man or a little human whose parts are bigger or smaller, depending on their number of nerve endings in them, basically. So, homunculus being used as a model for the nervous system.
But the one that I first really fell in love with was the idea that the homunculus that sits in your head and I think it was one of Descartes’s ideas, the philosopher of kind of mind, I suppose, of the idea of that we have a small version of ourselves in our head that watches what we are doing. And to him, that was all about what consciousness is, I suppose, and he called it the Cartesian Theatre, this place in the head where a small version of yourself sits observing what you are doing and kind of casting judgment and kind of pulling the strings, I suppose.
I don’t know, a little bit like, I don’t know, like a creature in a Dalek, maybe. But that idea kind of got me started, I think with the homunculus and I kind of dialed it back to the earliest version I could find and just stopped at the alchemists because they were bonkers and it just sounded so much, there’s so much theatre there, so much fun to be had there, so much play to be had with the idea of a small person that you are creating out of nothing almost.
Luke: And also that weird desire, again, one of the reasons I think we go to history so much is as a reflection for what we’re doing at the moment, that strange desire to create something of yourself completely independently of anybody else, that idea that we self-repeat and the ideal perfect child is one that is just a repetition of you rather than it being anything kind of communal or a linking or a coming together. And that idea kind of, yeah, I stuck on that idea for a while thinking, yeah, what would that look like if, you know, having children was just infinite repeat rather than variety, it was just a case of copying yourself essentially.
Mark: And maybe that also relates to the artistic impulse to make something.
Luke: Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely. Yeah. the idea of, yeah, living beyond yourself, definitely that sense of, yeah, leaving something behind maybe that, you know, do you do it with children, do you do it with art? Finding a version of yourself that you can, yeah, pass on.
Mark: And, you know, for me, one of the drawbacks of writing, you know, short lyric poems of the kind that predominate these days is you get one, you get the idea, and then you’ve done it, and then you’ve got to wait. You know, it’s like waiting for a bus. You’ve got to wait for another one to come along. So what was it like having the homunculus in your poetic life, so to speak, so that maybe you knew there would be another, you know, he or she would be hanging around and you could play with it again and have another homunculus poem shortly?
Luke: It was lovely really, I really enjoyed it, just that constant, ‘Oh, I wonder what the homunculus would think of this.’ I think one of the things you hear as a poet more often than not is kind of people telling you, ‘Oh, you could get a poem out of that.’ Or, ‘That could be a poem,’ that kind of, you know, the expectation that, you know, you are constantly on, you are always looking like a magpie for that next thing to write about.
But having another angle to come at it from you know, that idea of telling it slant, you know, there are very, very, very good poems that kind of pick up on, you know, something that happened and use that as a jumping off point for a wider universal truth in that lyric tradition. But I think I wanted to try to do or look at things in a slight, I don’t know, maybe I was fed up with me and my way of looking at things and was looking for a way of shocking myself into a different perspective. And so this homunculus kind of came on as a bit of a gift really, as this creature, this thing that would have a very different perspective, or at least, yeah, a different perspective, a different take on what was happening.
Mark: And let’s think about the form of the poem. I mean, firstly, how typical is this form of the rest of the collection?
Luke: The homunculus poems all have this central margin, I suppose, this gap that runs down the middle. So it’s quite typical of the other homunculus poems in terms of how it looks on the page. The poem on the page is in four kind of equal standards, four quatrains, but with this split down the middle. And I think it’s probably more formal in that regard than some of the others. But the run-on lines, like I said, that central kind of marginated sculptural split, I suppose, that runs down the middle there. There’s a fair few poems that do that and I think I really enjoyed playing around with that.
About five, six years ago I started toying with a lack of, or very reduced punctuation in poetry, and this poem kind of ties in with that and, I guess, uses breath and space rather than that, I think that kind of probably came from many, many, many, many, many poets do it. But the one that really hit for me, I suppose, with Andrew McMillan’s first collection, it’s a physical collection that use these breath spaces to kind of let some light and let some air into the poem because I do tend to write quite densely in that the images do tend to pile up. And I really like layering sound on sound as well.
There’s a lot of repetition in the poem, there’s a lot of repeated phrases and sounds as well, particularly vowel sounds. And I think a way of really opening the poem up for me is just giving it that physical space on the page, splitting those lines and kind of, yeah, letting a bit more air and breath into it on the page as well.
Mark: Yeah. And we could really hear, you know, the gap in the middle of the line. We could hear that as you read it. I mean, for me, obviously, with this topic, it made me think of the sea and the waves and the details piling up the way the waves and the pebbles pile up on the shore.
Luke: Yeah. I think within each poem that central, you know, marginated blank space seems to do something else within each time I’ve used it. And here, definitely, that wave that one runs through the poem was a real, I like it when, you know, things that you are choosing, you know, methods that you choose that aid one element of your craft, of your poetry also have a knock-on impact on others as well. And whilst, yeah, that breath, that break was brought in as a sound feature originally, definitely on the page visually, it’s definitely doing that kind of wave-like seascape job this time, I suppose.
Mark: And you’ve got this wonderfully understated, but really quite unsettling ending.
Luke (from poem recording):
he plants my feet in the water the water sucks at them
like a hungry tongue I’m brought to the edge
teetering in two places at once against the flat world
wind stings the line of my lips salt in the corners of my feet
Mark: So we’ve got that, you know, father’s planting us carefully there, but the water, you know, the sea is sucking at it like a tongue. And he’s brought to the edge. You talked about Paracelsus being at the edge, but you know, every child is brought to the edge really at some point. And that flat world is quite a resonant phrase, isn’t it, in the context of the cosmology of the time?
Luke: Yeah. I think I was probably pulled back towards that painting again, towards The Monk by the Sea. And just that idea of if we are on this flat plane, this two-dimensional plane, you know, where will things catch, I suppose, the idea of what would be the instances, you know, those angles in which things might grab, in which things might get caught. And certainly that last line, you know, if we are on this flat landscape because that’s, I think, how I imagine them, the homunculus and his father standing against this very kind of ostensibly two-dimensional boardscape, I guess.
Mark: Right. That’s what it looks like…
Luke: Where do things catch? Where can things get in? And it’s just those small corners, I guess, you know, the line of a lip, the corner of a foot. I think that’s where I was probably going with that last bit, trying to anchor it in that image again. But yeah, then there is that, I think there a lot of the homunculus poems in with a, not quite a threatening tone perhaps, but definitely a sense of, I don’t know, maybe it is what the Romantics we’re talking about with the sublime, this idea of something huge and terrifying and, you know, awesome in the sense that, you know, it mutes you, it leaves you, you know, it leaves you cold, it leaves you, you know, wondering about your tiny little place in a gigantic world.
And so I think that’s definitely in there at the end of this one. And obviously, you know Caspar David Friedrich is something of a Romantic painter. Definitely his more famous pieces perhaps are those that definitely tie into that romantic tradition of the sublime and the hugeness of nature.
Mark: Absolutely. I once saw William Golding interviewed, I think he was on The South Bank show. And they had Golding sat on a rock at the edge of the sea, and Melvin Bragg was asking him questions. And at one point Golding said, ‘You know what? It’s actually really hard to talk because I’m just looking at the sea and everything just feels utterly insignificant, anything that I would say just next to the sea.’ And I love the way you evoke that feeling in this poem, you know, and it’s the classic walk by the shore on a winter’s day, and it’s not comforting, is it? It’s bracing.
Luke: It’s not, no, it’s not, it is bracing. And I think that’s probably why we do it so often, like kind of particularly this time of year when it’s stormy and it’s moody, and it’s big. And I think against that, yeah, maybe any attempts to explain, you know, why not have a sea that is upside down and waves are coming up from a place in the middle of the ocean that’s being belched out?
I mean, it makes no difference, does it, to the enormity of what’s in front of you. Whether it’s, you know, wind fetch across a vast amount of sea, or whether is some, you know, God pushing water up from the very base of the earth, it makes no difference to what’s going on at the surface. And that’s what we’re encountering is surface. And, yeah. And behind that could be anything, which is, you know, equally incredible and terrifying, I suppose.
Mark: Well, thank you, Luke. Let’s hear the poem again and contemplate that surface.
Luke: Sure.
Mark: And feel small again. [Laughter]
at the tideline with my father we are the only uprights
my father digs with his big toe the sea goes through that
my father swings me high over the waves
he plants my feet in the water the water sucks at them
‘Homunculus by the Shore’ is from Homunculus by Luke Palmer, published by Broken Sleep Books.
Homunculus is available from:
The publisher: Broken Sleep Books
Amazon: UK | US
Bookshop.org: US
Homunculus is Luke Palmer’s first full collection, released in early 2024 following two earlier pamphlets. His poems, described as ‘stark and beautiful’ and ‘meticulously woven’, have been widely published and anthologised. His work touches on many themes, most often parenting and children. He won the 2022 Winchester Poetry Prize for ‘Desire | Fathers’ and has taught on poetry and fatherhood for the Poetry School. Luke is also a critically acclaimed author of novels for young people and has been longlisted for the Carnegie Medal. He lives in Wiltshire with his young family.
LukePalmerWriting.com
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
You can hear every episode of the podcast via Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favourite app.
You can have a full transcript of every new episode sent to you via email.
The music and soundscapes for the show are created by Javier Weyler. Sound production is by Breaking Waves and visual identity by Irene Hoffman.
A Mouthful of Air is produced by The 21st Century Creative, with support from Arts Council England via a National Lottery Project Grant.
You can listen and subscribe to A Mouthful of Air on all the main podcast platforms
Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Homunculus by the Shore by Luke Palmer appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
Mark McGuinness reads and discusses ‘Sextain’ by William Drummond of Hawthornden.
William Drummond of Hawthornden
Mark McGuinness
By William Drummond of Hawthornden
The Heaven doth not contain so many stars,
So many leaves not prostrate lie in woods
When autumn’s old and Boreas sounds his wars,
So many waves have not the ocean floods,
As my rent mind hath torments all the night,
And heart spends sighs when Phœbus brings the light.
Why should I have been partner of the light,
Who, crost in birth by bad aspéct of stars,
Have never since had happy day or night?
Why was not I a liver in the woods,
Or citizen of Thetis’s crystal floods,
Than made a man, for love and fortune’s wars?
I look each day when death should end the wars,
Uncivil wars, ’twixt sense and reason’s light;
My pains I count to mountains, meads, and floods,
And of my sorrow partners make the stars;
All desolate I haunt the fearful woods,
When I should give myself to rest at night.
With watchful eyes I ne’er behold the night,
Mother of peace, but ah! to me of wars,
And Cynthia, queen-like, shining through the woods,
When straight those lamps come in my thought, whose light
My judgment dazzled, passing brightest stars,
And then mine eyes en-isle themselves with floods.
Turn to their springs again first shall the floods,
Clear shall the sun the sad and gloomy night,
To dance about the pole cease shall the stars,
The elements renew their ancient wars
Shall first, and be deprived of place and light,
E’er I find rest in city, fields, or woods.
End these my days, indwellers of the woods,
Take this my life, ye deep and raging floods;
Sun, never rise to clear me with thy light,
Horror and darkness, keep a lasting night;
Consume me, care, with thy intestine wars,
And stay your influence o’er me, bright stars!
In vain the stars, indwellers of the woods,
Care, horror, wars, I call, and raging floods,
For all have sworn no night shall dim my sight.
Last month Terrance Hayes read for us one of his ‘DIY sestinas’ – a mind boggling variation on an already fairly mind-boggling poetic form. So I thought it would be good to look at another sestina today, a more straightforward and conventional sestina, so that we can deepen our understanding of the tradition that Terrance is responding to and playing with, when he does his DIY version.
The word ‘sestina’ comes from ‘sesto’ in Italian, meaning ‘sixth’. A sestina is made up of six stanzas, with six lines in each stanza. And at the end of those lines we find the same six words in every stanza, with their order changing according to a set pattern.
So in the sestina we’ve just heard, those end words are, ‘stars’, ‘woods’, ‘wars’, ‘floods’, ‘night’ and ‘light’, which is why we’ve just heard them repeating over and over.
Then, at the end of the poem, we find an envoy, or envoy, with all six words appearing in a shorter stanza of just three lines. I once heard Seamus Heaney give a lecture where he described the envoy as the end words ‘doing a little lap of honour’ at the end of the poem.
As a verse form named after the number six you could say the sestina has a family likeness to terza rima, a form based on the number three, with interlocking triple rhymes, which we looked at in episodes 21 and 54, with poems by Selina Rodrigues and Percy Bysshe Shelley.
But instead of rhymes, the sestina uses these end words, those words that appear at the end of the lines, and the challenge for a poet is to incorporate the end words into a meaningful and coherent poem, and somehow making a virtue of the repetition, so that it doesn’t become boring.
And given all this repetition, it’s not surprising that the sestina has often been used to evoke oppressive, claustrophobic or obsessive states of mind. The 19th century French poet, Ferdinand de Gramont, described it as ‘a reverie in which the same ideas, the same objects, occur to the mind in a succession of different aspects, which nonetheless resemble one another, fluid and changing shape like the clouds in the sky’.
As far as we can tell, the sestina originated in 12th century Occitania, in what is now southern France, among the troubadours, who were basically medieval performance poets, composing and singing their own songs, mostly on the themes of courtly love and chivalry.
The troubadour usually credited with inventing the sestina is Arnaut Daniel, who lived at the end of the 12th century. Although, given that a lot of troubadour forms were based on folk songs, he may well have been elaborating on a previous model.
And it’s certainly possible to see the sestina as a form of country dance for words, with those six words lined up like a row of dancers, who follow a set pattern of movements before lining up again and bowing to each other at the end. And just like a country dance, it’s possible to perform it quickly and skilfully and joyfully, or to go through the motions and tread on each other’s toes in a way that’s painful to watch.
The 19th century English poet Edmund Gosse wrote a sestina about Daniel’s creation of the sestina, which begins:
In fair Provence, the land of lute and rose,
So according to Gosse, Daniel’s motivation in creating such an elaborate form was to win the heart of a lady who ‘was deaf when simpler staves he sang’. Which reminds me of the biological theory that the complexity of the human brain and human culture evolved as a kind of mating ritual that got out of hand, with men and women creating ever more elaborate and dazzling cultural artefacts and dinner party repartee in order to attract each other’s attention.
And there’s definitely something of the peacock’s tail about the sestina, it’s absurdly overblown and impractical, but at the same time undeniably arresting.
So there’s a romantic explanation for the origin of the sestina, but there’s also a professional one. troubadours were a competitive bunch, always vying to outdo each other with their artistry, and there were high profile troubadour contests with big prizes. So it’s not hard to see the complexity of the sestina as a strategy for outdoing your rival, who may well have rocked up to the troubadour slam with a less elaborate verse form.
So it’s no surprise that Arnaut Daniel turned out to be a real poet’s poet, admired and praised by his fellow writers long after his poems and songs had faded from popular memory.
Dante includes Daniel in his Purgatorio, where he describes him as ‘il miglior fabbro’, the best blacksmith, or craftsman. And we’ve just heard Edmund Gosse’s description, ‘Arnaut, great master of the lore of love’. A few years after Gosse, Ezra Pound was translating Daniel’s verse and describing him as the greatest poet of all time. So we can imagine how chuffed Pound must have been when he saw the dedication of T. S. Eliot’s poem The Waste Land:
For Ezra Pound
And this mixture of competitiveness and mutual back-slapping is relevant to the sestina, because one criticism of the form is that it’s a ‘poet’s poem’ in the negative sense, where the formal and technical challenges take precedence over the actual effect of the poem on normal readers and listeners.
So it’s appropriate that there is more than one poet vying for the honour of having written the first sestina in English.
The first one to be printed in English was part of an eclogue in Edmund Spenser’s Shepheard’s Calendar, published in 1579. Although it’s possible that the sestinas in Sir Philip Sidney’s Arcadia were written before Spenser’s, even though they were published later.
However… a lady called Elizabeth Woodville, who happened to be Queen of England as the wife of Edward IV, turns out to have written a kind of sestina way back in the 15th century, which only survives in a single manuscript.
Her poem was a variation on the sestina, with seven lines per stanza instead of six; the extra line came from repeating the first line of every stanza as the last line of the same stanza. And the first six lines of the first stanza provided the first lines of each stanza, which are of course repeated at the end of each stanza.
So if you’re feeling a bit confused by now, that’s normal! It’s probably even intentional – the sestina is clearly designed to dazzle, and right from the very first ones written in English, we see poets playing with the form, bending the rules in order to display their virtuosity.
This was certainly the case with Philip Sidney, whose Arcadia includes a double sestina, one after the other, using the same six end words throughout. And it has been noted that nobody wrote a decent sestina in English for about 250 years after Sidney, perhaps because they were intimidated by his example.
Then in the 19th century a few poets, including Gosse and Swinburne, picked up on the form and started playing with it. And it became seriously popular in the 20th century, where it became a staple exercise in creative writing courses, and sestinas were written by major poets including Ezra Pound, W. H. Auden, Elizabeth Bishop, Weldon Kees, Seamus Heaney and John Ashbery.
For today’s episode I thought it would be nice to choose a poem from the early days of the English sestina. I was tempted to do the Elizabeth Woodville one, it’s a brilliant variation on the form, but I decided that it wouldn’t really help me explain a form based on six-line stanzas to use an example with seven-line stanzas.
Then I thought about Spender and Sidney. Both the Shepheard’s Calendar and the Arcadia contain some excellent sestinas, and they are also great examples of Renaissance pastoral, a genre that depicts humans living in an ideal state of harmony with nature, with lots of meadows and gardens and shepherds and nymphs and so on. But I’ve already featured Sidney fairly recently, in Episode 58. and I’m obviously going to do Spenser’s Faerie Queene at some point, so I decided to find another poet.
And what did I find nestling near Sidney and Spenser in the Renaissance pastoral garden, but this delightful piece by the Scottish poet William Drummond of Hawthornden.
Unfortunately for Drummond, these days he is better known for his hospitality than his poetry. His most famous work is a record he made of his conversations with the poet and playwright Ben Jonson, when Jonson came to visit him for three weeks in 1618.
According to the critic Michael Schmidt, Jonson stayed long enough to drink Drummond’s wine cellar dry, which probably accounts for the juiciness of his gossip and the harshness of some of his opinions of other writers, as recorded for posterity by Drummond.
So Drummond is a great source of literary gossip from the period, but he was also a very learned and skilful poet in his own right, as I think today’s poem, ‘Sextain’, demonstrates.
His use of classical references and the ornate syntax, with lots of inversions and poetic diction, make it clear that he was writing with an educated audience in mind. So we can probably see what Jonson meant when he told Drummond, ‘his verses were too much of the schooles, and were not after the fancie of the time’. In other words, they were a bit old-fashioned, even in the 17th century. But it’s too Drummond’s credit that he faithfully recorded this criticism of his own work. And I do think this is an impressive poem.
So the scenario is pretty straightforward: the speaker of the poem, who sounds like an educated man not a million miles away from Drummond himself, is contemplating the passing of daytime and nighttime over a landscape and feeling desolate and despairing. And that’s about it.
And because he’s looking at the same features of the landscape and the sky, and circling round and round the same thoughts, and the same emotional territory, the sestina is the perfect form for doing this.
But in spite of my efforts to get as close as possible to the original, pure source of the sestina, when we look a little closer at the form, we can see that this isn’t a pure sestina. Because the end words actually rhyme – ‘stars’ with ‘wars’, ‘woods’ with ‘floods’, and ‘night’ with ‘light’. And allowing for historical shifts in pronunciation, and Drummond’s Scottish accent, we can safely assume that ‘stars’ and ‘wars’, ‘woods’ and ‘floods’ would have been full rhymes for him.
So, even this early on in the history of the sestina, we find yet another poet bending the rules, playing variations on the form even before it’s been properly established. Because of course, there are no rules in poetry, only patterns, and poets love to play with patterns and see what effects emerge from them.
While I was considering the end words, I remembered a comment Mimi Khalvati made years ago, when she taught the sestina, which is that very often, there’s one word out of the six that doesn’t seem to fit with the others.
For example, in Elizabeth Bishop’s sestina, which she called ‘Sestina’, the end words are: ‘house’, ‘grandmother’, ‘child’, ‘stove’, ‘almanac’, ‘tears’.
So which word jumps out of that list? – ‘house’, ‘grandmother’, ‘child’, ‘stove’, ‘almanac’, ‘tears’.
It’s almanac, isn’t it? All the others belong to the same imaginative world, a cosy domestic scene with a child and its grandmother warming themselves by the stove. ‘Tears’ does add a strong element of pathos, but it doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb the way ‘almanac’ does.
I mean, if you were given the task of writing a sestina based on those words, that’s the word you’d balk at, isn’t it? It would be fairly easy to conjure up a story using the words ‘house’, ‘grandmother’, ‘child’, ‘stove’, and ‘tears’. But then your eye would light on ‘almanac’ and you’d think, really? Do I have to? But of course Bishop had the skill to carry it off without it sounding strained, and it helps to mark the poem out as unmistakably hers.
OK let’s play the same game with Drummond’s ‘Sextain’. Here are the end words – which one sticks out?
‘Stars’, ‘woods’, ‘wars’, ‘floods’, ‘night’ and ‘light’.
It’s ‘wars’, isn’t it? It’s easy enough to describe a country landscape using ‘Stars’, ‘woods’, ‘floods’, ‘night’ and ‘light’. But where do the wars fit in? They don’t, do they? The pastoral was associated with peace and order in Renaissance literature, and wars disrupt this peace.
And of course that’s what the poem is about. A man surrounded by natural beauty, but who can’t appreciate it because of the wars in his heart and mind.
The Heaven doth not contain so many stars,
So he’s basically saying that nature does not contain so many wonders as the ‘torments’ of my ‘rent mind’, my torn mind, and the ‘sighs’ of my heart.
Now it might be tempting to look at the historical context and see if there were any specific wars going on at the time that Drummond might be referencing in the poem, but I think it’s pretty clear that the wars he’s talking about are figurative, states of mind rather than warring states.
Mostly, the word ‘wars’ suggests some kind of personal anguish, such as ‘love and fortune’s wars’, ‘Uncivil wars, ’twixt sense and reason’s light’, and ‘intestine wars of care’ (i.e. sorrow). There are also references to war in natural world, with Boreas, the god of wind, sounding his wars at the end of autumn, heralding the approach of winter. And later on we have, ‘The elements renew their ancient wars’.
So the conflict isn’t restricted to the speaker’s own ‘love and fortune’; the poem also locates conflict in the natural seasons and elements. The word ‘wars’ insinuates itself into the pastoral landscape like the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
And Drummond uses all the tools at his disposal, including classical references, atmospheric description, and rhetorical exaggeration, to paint his picture of misery:
The Heaven doth not contain so many stars,
So according to Drummond’s logic, all the wonders of nature are not only negated by his misery, the more numerous and wonderful they are, the more they go to prove how much more miserable he is. And if you have ever suffered from melancholy, or tried to cheer up someone who is suffering from it, you’ll recognise this as a very accurate depiction of the kind of thinking it produces.
And this pattern, of evoking pastoral imagery only to negate it and twist it into proof of his unhappiness, continues in the second stanza:
Why should I have been partner of the light,
In other words, why should I have been born, only to be born under an unlucky star, never to have had a single happy day or night? And why wasn’t I born a creature of the woods or the seas, i.e. Some kind of bird or beast or fish, instead of ‘made a man’ who is subject to ‘love and fortune’s wars?’
And he carries on in the same vein throughout the poem, lamenting his fate with a combination of gorgeous natural imagery and convoluted syntax, peppered with references to classical gods – Boreas, Thetis, Phoebus and Cynthia. So it’s very much highbrow moaning.
And it’s not particularly obvious what he’s moaning about. We could cite circumstantial evidence – which is that, generally, this kind of melancholic pose was adopted at the time by disappointed male lovers. And the fourth stanza does seem to support this hypothesis, although if you blink you might miss the evidence:
With watchful eyes I ne’er behold the night,
Cynthia was another name for Artemis, the ancient Greek goddess of the moon. So what he’s saying here is that ‘I can never behold the night, and the moon shining through the woods’ without ‘those lamps’ coming into my mind, ‘whose light / My judgment dazzled’, brighter than the stars. And then my eyes are flooded with tears.
So I’m guessing these ‘lamps’ are the eyes of a mysterious beloved – as we know by now, courtly love poets love to compare their ladies’ eyes to stars. So this seems to be a pretty oblique and romanticised and classicised reference to some kind of encounter with a lady who dazzled the speaker, but didn’t hang around.
And I guess your enjoyment of this poem, or maybe your patience with it, will depend on how much you share the 17th century taste for elegantly expressed melancholy. Personally I find it quite congenial. But hopefully we can at least agree that Drummond has done a superb job within the conventions of the genre.
It doesn’t really go anywhere, the speaker is just as depressed at the end of the poem as he was at the beginning. But that’s kind of the point of the sestina – there’s no escape, you’re stuck with the six end words and doomed to repeat them ad nauseam.
And circling back to Terrance Hayes and his DIY sestinas, we can see that his self-conscious artistry, extending the technical challenge, as he put it, ‘to make the obsessiveness somewhat ridiculous even’, is part and parcel of the sestina tradition, of taking the complex and making it even more complex – as Daniel probably did with a folk song, and as Woodville, Spenser, Sidney and Drummond did in their turn.
So one aspect of Terrance’s innovation is really a new phase of a very old tradition. But the DIY element also gives it an unusual twist, because he’s taking a form that was originally competitive and exclusive – a test of skill and a ‘poet’s poem’ – and made it democratic and inviting, giving us the words and inviting us to join the dance.
Drummond was at the other end of the spectrum, an ivory tower poet who literally lived in a tower, his ancestral home of Hawthornden Castle. But there’s plenty of room for both types of poem, in a form as capacious and flexible as the sestina.
And Ben Jonson may have drunk all of Drummond’s wine, but fortunately his poems survive, so let’s have another listen to ‘Sextain’, and savour its vintage melancholy.
By William Drummond of Hawthornden
The Heaven doth not contain so many stars,
So many leaves not prostrate lie in woods
When autumn’s old and Boreas sounds his wars,
So many waves have not the ocean floods,
As my rent mind hath torments all the night,
And heart spends sighs when Phœbus brings the light.
Why should I have been partner of the light,
Who, crost in birth by bad aspéct of stars,
Have never since had happy day or night?
Why was not I a liver in the woods,
Or citizen of Thetis’s crystal floods,
Than made a man, for love and fortune’s wars?
I look each day when death should end the wars,
Uncivil wars, ’twixt sense and reason’s light;
My pains I count to mountains, meads, and floods,
And of my sorrow partners make the stars;
All desolate I haunt the fearful woods,
When I should give myself to rest at night.
With watchful eyes I ne’er behold the night,
Mother of peace, but ah! to me of wars,
And Cynthia, queen-like, shining through the woods,
When straight those lamps come in my thought, whose light
My judgment dazzled, passing brightest stars,
And then mine eyes en-isle themselves with floods.
Turn to their springs again first shall the floods,
Clear shall the sun the sad and gloomy night,
To dance about the pole cease shall the stars,
The elements renew their ancient wars
Shall first, and be deprived of place and light,
E’er I find rest in city, fields, or woods.
End these my days, indwellers of the woods,
Take this my life, ye deep and raging floods;
Sun, never rise to clear me with thy light,
Horror and darkness, keep a lasting night;
Consume me, care, with thy intestine wars,
And stay your influence o’er me, bright stars!
In vain the stars, indwellers of the woods,
Care, horror, wars, I call, and raging floods,
For all have sworn no night shall dim my sight.
William Drummond of Hawthornden was a Scottish poet and the first laird of Hawthornden, who was born in 1585 and died in 1649. He studied at the University of Edinburgh and later traveled through Europe, gaining exposure to the intellectual currents of his time. The title of the volume of poems he published in 1616 gives a good indication of their style and mood: Poems: Amorous, Funerall, Divine, Pastorall: in Sonnets, Songs, Sextains, Madrigals. His prose writings include history and philosophy. Drummond’s home, Hawthornden Castle, containing his extensive library, became a literary haven, with Ben Jonson his most famous guest.
This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday.
You can hear every episode of the podcast via Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favourite app.
You can have a full transcript of every new episode sent to you via email.
The music and soundscapes for the show are created by Javier Weyler. Sound production is by Breaking Waves and visual identity by Irene Hoffman.
A Mouthful of Air is produced by The 21st Century Creative, with support from Arts Council England via a National Lottery Project Grant.
You can listen and subscribe to A Mouthful of Air on all the main podcast platforms
Episode 74 Empathy by A. E. Stallings A. E. Stallings reads ‘Empathy’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: This Afterlife: Selected PoemsAvailable from: This Afterlife: Selected Poems is available from: The publisher: Carcanet Amazon:...
Episode 73 From Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum, by Emilia LanyerMark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum by Emilia Lanyer.Poet Emilia LanyerReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom Salve Deus Rex Judaeorum (Lines 745-768) By Emilia...
Episode 72 Reddest Red by Z. R. Ghani Z. R. Ghani reads ‘Reddest Red’ and discusses the poem with Mark McGuinness.This poem is from: In the Name of RedAvailable from: In the Name of Red is available from: The publisher: The Emma Press Amazon: UK | US...
The post Sextain by William Drummond of Hawthornden appeared first on A Mouthful of Air.
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