Here are three provocative questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Dr. Ryan Brown:

What are you measuring that doesn’t matter?

 Where might your data be lying to you?

 And what if the “immeasurable” parts of change are exactly what count?

Ryan’s a behavioral scientist who studies how organizations measure what actually works—especially in complex, human systems of change. We talk about why measurement needs to start with humility—the courage to admit you might not know what’s really creating impact—and how clarity about your true objectives changes everything.

He shares his simple but powerful framework: measure across three domains—feelings, thoughts, and behaviors—so you capture both what people do and what they believe. And we dig into the hidden traps of data itself: how metrics get gamed, why context shapes truth, and why “data never speak for themselves.”

If you lead large-scale transformation, this episode helps you move beyond dashboards and surveys to something more essential—learning what’s real, what matters, and what’s worth measuring at all.

Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.

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