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In Don't @ Me (3:17), Tom questions whether or not society's assertion of "majority rule" is something we all really believe in. Then, Tom is joined by author Zaretta Hammond (14:04) to discuss her 2015 release, "Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (1:03:29), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about what aspects of assessment and grading are non-negotiable, and which aspects allow for some philosophical choices.
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (3:17), Tom, through highlighting a truly awful travel experience last week, explores how life tests us and how we have to maintain perspective, regardless of how frustrated we might be. Then, Tom is joined by author and "Neuroscience Meets SEL" podcast host Andrea Samadi (27:14) to discuss how SEL competencies positively impact the brain and the physiological development in children and youth. Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (1:01:47), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about where to begin if you're leading a reform effort in assessment & grading.
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:30), Tom explores the issue of negative self-talk and wonders why, if we wouldn’t say negative things to others, we keep saying negative things to ourselves. Then, Tom is joined by educator and author Rick Jetter (14:13) to discuss why students remember their teachers, sometimes forever. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:03:10), Tom and a special guest co-host talk about what we might underestimate and overestimate in terms of leading change in assessment & grading.
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (3:13), Tom discusses his concern over a new tactic that could become more divisive than helpful when debating societal issues. Then, Tom is joined by future author and educator Robert Cobbs (13:25) to discuss how he ended up in Puerto Rico and why he founded the non-profit Tech My School. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:03:10), Tom answers a listener question that has both a literacy and assessment side to it.
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NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (4:00), Tom discusses the new social media app BeReal which he says has a chance to create a more authentic online experience. Then, Tom is joined by author and speaker Mike Mattos (11:33) to discuss the RTI at Work framework. Finally, in Assessment Corner (58:40), Tom outlines 3 strikes in grading reform that he wants every school to avoid.
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NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:45), Tom highlights another sure-fired "happiness killer." Then, Tom is joined by author Mirko Chardin (12:19) to discuss his latest book, "Equity by Design: Delivering on the Power and Promise of UDL." Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:54), Tom talks briefly about the difference between leveled questions and leveled responses and why each can have a place in our assessment systems, but each needs to be kept in its place
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NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:25), Tom takes aim at any adult associated with AP courses, including parents, by highlighting why adult ego is driving students to overload their academic schedules with AP courses thereby creating an unsustainable and unhealthy school experience. Then, Tom is joined by author and friend Morgane Michael (15:50) to discuss her latest book, "From Burnt Out to fired Up: Reigniting your Passion for Teaching!" Finally, in Assessment Corner (57:16), Tom talks about why scaling or rating learning targets is instructionally unnecessary and can actually serve as a distraction to what matters most.
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NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:34), Tom opens by sharing why "must be nice" is the most condescending phrase anyone can use. Then, Tom is joined by author and colleague Tony Reibel (11:11) to discuss his latest book, "Small Changes, Big Impact: 10 Strategies to Promote Student Efficacy and Lifelong Learning." Finally, in Assessment Corner (45:19), Tom talks about the single most underutilized formative assessment strategy and that is to get students talking about their learning.
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NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:10), Tom opens by wondering whether "follow your passion" is sound advice for our students. Then, Tom is joined by teacher and podcast host Chey Cheney (10:23) to discuss an array of educational topics. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:00:47), Tom talks about a very important concept in leading a transformation of your assessment and grading practices and, at the same time, tells you about a new book that he has coming out.
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In Don't @ Me (2:00), Tom opens with an assertion that on the net, virtue signalling is good. Then, Tom is joined by author, speaker, and leader Jimmy Casas (12:12) to discuss his book "Culturize" and to put the principles into practice. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:24), Tom answers the question of how many questions should teachers use on a summative assessment.
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"Virtue Signalling" May Annoy Us. But Civilization would be Impossible Without It
Geoffrey Miller is a Psychology Professor at the University of New Mexico
From the publisher's feed
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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