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In Don’t @ Me (2:37), Tom shares his thoughts on how anything schools want to count in the court of public opinion must be measurable. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. John Hattie (12:25) for part two of a conversation about the Visible Learning research. Finally, in Assessment Corner (52:38), Tom discusses the good ol’ test, and how it can still fit within a balanced approach to assessment.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
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In Don’t @ Me (2:15), Tom shares his thoughts on the recent social media phenomenon called "Quiet Quitting." Then, Tom is joined by Dr. John Hattie (12:16) for part one of a conversation about the Visible Learning research. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:11), Tom discusses why it might be time to push back against those who push back at the elimination of punitive grading practices.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don’t @ Me (2:53), Tom opens by asking us all to consider whether we can set our egos aside and be open to being led. Then, Tom is joined by educator and author Connie Hamilton (9:33) to discuss her book, “Hacking Questions: 11 Answers that Create a Culture of Inquiry in your Classroom.” Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:38), Tom identifies the six most common ways the relationship between the formative and summative assessment paradigms gets fractured, making grading reform more difficult.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (5:29), Tom declares that in his next life, he wants to return as a critic. Then, Tom is joined by author, speaker, and Teach Better Digital Coordinator Livia Chan (11:16) to discuss the importance of building strong relationships with our students. Finally, in Assessment Corner (55:48), Tom talks about why synthesizing our standards is the only way to authentically cover and assess them.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:41), Tom shares his thoughts on why it is so important to answer people's questions, especially in online forums, and why performative pontifications are the highest form of disrespect. Then, Tom is joined by Joe Sanfelippo (8:35) to discuss effective school and district leadership. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:28), Tom talks about why student investment is the ultimate Jackpot regarding our assessment literacy.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (3:21), Tom outlines what he believes the societal rules surrounding "no spoilers" should be. Then, Tom is joined by Lindsay Titus (11:19) to discuss how educators can maintain some semblance of balance through the inevitable stress that comes with any school year. Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (51:46), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about how to sustain change efforts in assessment & grading.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:32), Tom expresses his frustration with those teachers who seem to want to run away from referring to themselves as "teachers." Then, Tom is joined by Lainie Rowell (11:24) to discuss her latest book, "Evolving with Gratitude: Small Practices in Learning Communities That Make a Big Difference with Kids, Peers, and the World." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (57:11), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about some Leadership Blindspots when it comes to leading the efforts to create a new assessment and grading paradigm in a school.
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:36), Tom expresses his concern that if we can't listen to one another and empathize without agreeing, then the divides in our society will further deepen. Then, Tom is joined by Nathan Wear (14:02) to discuss his book, "Making Grades Matter: Standards-Based Grading in a Secondary PLC at Work." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (52:13), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about whether it's "Gradeless" or "Grade Less."
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:16), Tom reflects after a camping trip about his core group of friends who are more like family. Then, Tom is joined by Gholdy Muhammad (11:51) to discuss her book, "Cultivating Genius, an Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (46:40), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about how to assess 21st-century competencies.
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
In Don't @ Me (2:53), Tom recounts his trip to Montreal with his son to see their first-ever Formula 1 race. Then, Tom is joined by FNESC President Tyrone McNeil (19:46) to discuss the state of indigenous education. Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (1:04:56), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about some effective analogies that help clarify some complex assessment topics.
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
From the publisher's feed
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

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