Dr. Sue Edwards

Dr. Kay Daigle

If you're a leader, get ready for conflict according to Dr. Sue Edwards of Dallas Seminary. It's inevitable, so we need to prepare for it as best we can.

Dr. Edwards and Dr. Kay Daigle tell the story of a conflict they were both involved in years ago. Dr. Edwards strongly suggests that we learn about peacemaking now and practice it in every part of our lives. Get ready for conflict!

Don't miss the second podcast in the series: Women's Tendencies in Conflict, and the third, Empowering Practices in Conflict. Right now all are available on video, but the second and third will drop on our podcast soon.

This episode is available on video as well.

Recommended resources

Oletha Barnett's podcast series, Fight Right: 1. The Nature of Conflict, 2. Biblical Resolution 3. Accepting Other's Differences. All are also available on video.

All BOW videos on dealing with conflict

Book:  Leading Women Who Wound: Strategies for an Effective Ministry by Sue Edwards & Kelley Mathews

Timestamps

00:22 Introduction

02:45 Get ready for conflict

08:07 Research confirms the need to become peacemakers.

09:43 Conflict in Jesus' life

TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries, and I'd like to welcome you to a series on conflict. Our guest today is Dr. Sue Edwards from Dallas Seminary. Sue is the Associate Professor of Educational Ministries and Leadership there. Her complete bio is on our website if you want to read that. This series is really a follow up to a series that we previously posted with Oletha Barnett called “Fight Right,” which will give you the basics of conflict.

Sue and I today are going to talk more specifically about leadership. The title of this series is “Empowering Leaders to Survive and Thrive through Conflict.” So this will be specifically for you, but you will need the basics that Oletha gives about handling it and just some other tips that she has. It's a wonderful series. You'll find it also on our website at BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. This is the first in three.

Right now, we're just going to talk about “Get Ready.”

Just to give you a little background, Sue and I met years ago and really at the time, Sue was weathering a conflict that she may talk about some in this series. I got drawn into the conflict really when I wouldn't take a stand against Sue by the people that were attacking her.

And so I became a second target of these people. It bonded me and Sue because we were dealing with the same people and had experienced some of the same things. It was a very difficult time, I know for her, and it certainly was for me. So I know that Sue not only has studied conflict and studied scripturally what to do with conflict, but she has experienced conflict.

She has weathered it; she has experienced it; and she has learned about it.

So, Sue, I'm excited to hear what you are going to tell us about conflict and we're talking about get ready. So get us ready.

Sue >> I'll start out by just saying be ready because conflict is coming and the more influential you are as a leader, the more conflict you'll experience. And our experience was, oh my goodness, it was a horrendous year for me. I was leading a women's ministry and we were in the same church there.

And a rival Bible teacher (Now, those words should never even be in the same sentence, but that was the reality of what was going on.), she attempted to have me thrown out of the church as a false teacher, and it was over a doctrinal issue that at our seminary our professors agreed to disagree about. It's a gray area and godly people take different stands on it. But this woman she was not willing to do that. In fact, I remember sitting in the Executive Pastor's office, and she was glaring at me over the table and she said, “You are holding women's hands to hell.”

It was that kind of rhetoric that was going on and the Executive Pastor basically said, and of course,

Nika Spaulding

Kay Daigle

Nika Spaulding joins Kay Daigle for this fun and helpful conversation as she discusses using questions like Jesus. Nika did her doctoral research on this topic and it has changed her perspective of how to disciple others.

Whether you disciple your own child, mentor another woman or teach the Bible, this conversation will provide a lot to think about and some practical ideas for implementing questions.

Recommended resources

Jesus is the Question: the 307 Questions Jesus Asked and the 3 He Answered by Martin Copenhaver

What do you Seek? The Questions of Jesus as Challenge and Promise by Michael J. Buckley, SJ

The Questions of Jesus: Challenging Ourselves to Discover Life's Great Answers by John Dear

Re-Imagining Discipleship: A Theological Perspective BOW podcast with Nika Spaulding

You can watch this episode on video.

Timestamps:

00:32 This topic is for everyone!

02:19 How did you get interested in this topic?

03:39 Making disciples

06:28 What kinds of questions are we talking about?

12:00 Questions in Jesus' day

22:17 What did your research look like?

26:42 How can we learn to ask questions like Jesus?

38:50 Other resources

TranscriptKay >> I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to this podcast recording. Our special guest today is Nika Spaulding.

Nika >> Hey, friends.

Kay >> Welcome again, Nika.

Nika >> Thanks Kay.

Kay >> Nika is a frequent guest on our podcast and our videos, and we're just always so happy when you're able to join us. I’m particularly excited about this conversation today because you're going to be talking about asking questions like Jesus. And that just sounds so interesting to me. And as I was thinking about it, I thought there are a lot of people who could probably benefit from this.

I mean, the first people I thought of were like Bible teachers or people who write curriculum or people discipling other people. Or maybe even parents or counselors. I mean that the more I thought about it, the longer the list got. I just kept thinking of almost everybody. And in any kind of capacity there are times that they want to teach other people and maybe they need to use more questions.

Nika >> Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I mean, I started out studying this as a way to help, like, church leaders. And then the more I started studying, the more I thought that this is helpful to me as an aunt and as a parent and as really anyone who wants to love others. Well, I think we have to grow in this skill.

And so, yeah, I think the list is very long. But it might be everyone. It could be everyone.

Kay >> I'm kind of thinking that it is. I just hadn't gotten that far in my mind. I think I would have eventually gotten there because I just kept adding in small group leaders and, you know, just all sorts of people. So I think that's good.

Well, tell me just briefly how you got interested in this topic.

Nika >> Yeah, I think it was almost by happenstance. So I'm finishing my doctoral program and of course, you have to write a thesis at the end of your time there. And in the beginning I thought I would do stuff on you know, rhetoric in the ancient world, how we understand Bible reading in the ancient world, I thought about like all these, like, really niche things that I was like super nerdy right up my alley.

I wrote a bunch of papers on literacy in the ancient world, like, all these things. And then I realized, you know, wow, that's neat. And it's really fascinating. I more and more thought, I want to create something that can help the church. I wanted to create a tool that does exactly what we were just saying, a tool that can help others.

And really the impetus for it was a young woman that I've been discipling for probably 15 years came to me and said, “Hey, how do I disciple others?” And, you know, I kind of looked at it like, “Well, what's, you know, what's the other person going through?

Kelly Dippolito

Kelley Mathews

We hope that this episode will encourage many of you to use the Center for Women in Leadership, particularly its Visual Museum for Women in Christianity. It is of interest to anyone, and can be a great resource for pastors and Bible teachers. There is art to download and accompanying teaching on each piece.

Kelly Dippolito, Executive Director for the Center for Women in Leadership, joins BOW Ministry Team Member Kelley Mathews for this enlightening conversation about using the Visual Museum.

Recommended resources

Center for Women in Leadership

Visual Museum of Women in Christianity

The Alabaster Jar Podcast

Other BOW resources for Bible teachers

This episode is available on video.

Timestamps:

00:20 Introductions

01:55 The Alabaster Jar podcast

02:53 What is the Visual Museum for Women in Christianity?

07:02 Content on the site

09:20 What content is upcoming?

10:26 How is the best way to browse through the museum?

14:04 How can someone use the Visual Museum?

20:15 Wrap-up

TranscriptKelley M. >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. This is Kelley Matthews, and I am here to introduce to you another Kelly. So we're hoping we don't get ourselves all mixed up here. This is Kelly Dippolito and she is the Executive Director of the Center for Women in Leadership. Now, I've known Kelly for a long time. It feels like several years at least.

And we have a shared love for this subject that we have today. So I am super excited to talk about her ministry that she works with and also their specific project called the Visual Museum for Women in Christianity. Welcome, Kelly.

Kelly D. >> Kelley, thank you so much for having me on today. And I'm really looking forward to talking about the Visual Museum and the Center for Women in Leadership with you.

Kelley M. >> Yes. So give us a little bit of the origin story. Let's start with the center because it's sort of like the umbrella organization. Where did it start? Who's involved— that kind of thing? And what do you do each day?

Kelly D. >> Well, I serve as the Executive Director of the Center for Women in Leadership. The center was created by Dr. Lynn Cohick when she was provost at Northern Seminary. She is currently at Houston Christian University, of which you are one of her wonderful students.

Kelley M. >> Yes I am.

Kelly D. >> Right. So we transitioned the center into becoming a 501C3. A little over a year ago. And within that, we have a couple of projects, including producing her podcast, The Alabaster Jar and housing The Visual Museum of Women in Christianity, which is the project we'll be talking about today.

Kelley M. >> Yeah. Let's do real quick. Tell me about The Alabaster Jar. I know that you act as a cohost and sometimes it's just the two of you chatting. So what's the general focus of the podcast overall?

Kelly D. >> Well, we release an episode every Monday. Dr. Cohick is the host, and we cover a variety of topics in biblical studies and in topics that affect women in ministry, both in the church, the academy, and also the marketplace. What is it that's impacting our lives? How can we support and equip women? Those are the topics that we like to cover.

Also, we have some we try to do some series drops on Thursdays is related specifically to the Visual Museum, and in order to provide that content in a different way than just the website.

Kelley M. >> Yeah, Okay. Those are fun. Those come periodically. They're not every week. So. Yeah. And you guys do a good job of saying here they kind of. Yeah, it's going to be fun to look forward to. So.

Kelly D. >> All right.

Kelley M. >> Let's talk about the Visual Museum. And I have known about it since almost the beginning. So give us I know Dr. Cohick is one of the founders. Tell us about the other two and kind of how I got started.

Kelly D. >> Well, Sandra Glahn of Dallas Theological Seminary,

Jodie Niznik

Kay Daigle

Jodie Niznik and Kay Daigle discuss exploring spiritual practices beyond prayer and Bible study to help us walk with God. If you feel your spiritual life has become simply something to check off on a to-do list, exploring a spiritual practice that is new to you may be the key to revitalizing your soul. Jodie encourages us to try something new slowly, exploring spiritual practices one at a time.

You can also watch a video version of this episode.

Recommended resources

Jodie’s “So Much More” podcast

Jodie’s website

BOW Podcast episode with Jodie: Why Take a Personal Retreat?

Laura Murray’s Digital Silent Retreats

Jodie’s New Season Guided Retreat

Ruth Haley Barton’s book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest: From Sabbath to Sabbatical and Back Again

Additional resources suggested by Jodie

Timestamps:

00:32 Introduction

01:50 Defining spiritual practices

05:42 Silence and solitude

18:42 Sabbath

30:17 Fasting

35:34 Community

42:43 Final encouragement

43:43 Further resources

TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast and video. Our special guest today is Jodie Niznik. Welcome Jodie.

Jodie >> Thanks, Kay. So always good to be with you.

Kay >> And we always love it when you come on here. We've had some great conversations and I'll get into some of those at the end so that people know more about them. Today we're going to talk about spiritual disciplines. And Jodie, I need to tell you a little bit more about her before we get into our conversation. Jodie is an author, a Bible teacher.

She desires to help people make space for God in their lives. And she has a Scripture meditation podcast, which is fabulous, and it's called So Much More. And where can I get to that, Jodie?

Jodie >> Yeah, if you go to my website, which is jodieniznik.com, there are links there, but it's also on any podcast platform. So wherever you listen to podcasts, you can Google so much more scripture meditation and you'll find it.

Kay >> All right. Thanks for letting us know yeah. Well, as we start talking about spiritual disciplines, I just wanted to say from the from the get go that growing up in the church, all I knew was I was supposed to pray. I supposed to read my Bible, and I was supposed to give money. So I definitely came a long way.

And I'm sure that there are people out there that don't even know what spiritual disciplines are. So let's sort of start from the beginning. How would you define them? Just tell us about them.

Jodie >> Yeah, I love that you started with the basic spiritual disciplines that we know prayer, Bible study, giving to the church. Those are the practices that we know. But spiritual disciplines are actually much bigger and they all come from what we see Jesus doing. So Jesus, when he invited us to be followers, he said, “Come follow me.” That's what he said to the original disciples.

You all know that. And when we look at what he was actually inviting them to do, he was actually inviting them into a way of living. He was inviting them to do the things that he was doing so that they would become more like him. So spiritual practices are often called spiritual disciplines. Those two words are interchangeable. I like practices a little more than discipline because I think discipline, especially if we're breaking out of even kind of a legalistic background it feels a little harsher to us and not as invitational as a practice.

Practice has a little bit more freedom in the word for me, but a spiritual practice is something we see Jesus doing, but with the intention that we are being formed to be more like him.

Another thing I think is really important about spiritual practices is we're all being formed into something. We are all being formed intentionally and unintentionally, and some of the ways that we are unintentionally formed are the things that we do, the things that we read,

Sharifa Stevens, BOW Ministry Team Member

Kelley Mathews, BOW Ministry Team Member

Protestants in general often don't talk much about Mary, mother and disciple of Jesus. Kelley Mathews, however, provides us with lots to think about from her interesting insights into who she was and her life and witness.

What are the Seven Sorrows in her life? Kelly talks about them and what we can learn from Mary about being a disciple.

Don't miss this lively discussion about Mary, mother and disciple of Jesus.

This episode is also available on video.

Recommended resources

Women in the Story of Scripture podcast episode

Artwork mentioned:1) Michelangelo Buonarroti, The Pietà, 1498-1499, St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican City. 2) Artist Unknown, Theotokos, Our Lady of Sorrows, created 6th-7th century.

Timestamps:

00:21 Introductions

01:35 Why Talk about Mary?

02:40 Mary of the Seven Sorrows

05:31 Simeon's Prophecy

07:43 The Pietà

09:38 Protestants and Mary

10:59 What can we learn from Mary as a disciple?

17:06 The through-line between Mary's Magnificat and Jesus' themes

20:18 Mary's humility

25:26 Mary behind the scenes

29:04 Art depicting Mary

32:58 Mary as an eyewitness

35:00 Resources

TranscriptSharifa >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I am your host, Sharifa Stevens, and today I have the pleasure of talking to Kelley Mathews. Kelley Mathews has ministered to the church through writing and editing for over 25 years, though it does not look like it! Kelley has co-authored eight books, including 40 Questions About Women in Ministry. She is a freelance writer and editor, a former women's ministry director and Bible study teacher.

She has been married to John, a school administrator, for 27 years. They are parents to four active, mostly grown children. Kelley earned her Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary in the year 2000 and is currently pursuing a Doctor of Ministry in New Testament from Houston Theological Seminary. Welcome, Kelley.

Kelley >> Hello. Hello. It's kind of fun being on this end of the screen, right?

Sharifa >> I'm glad.

Kelley >> Right. Yeah. I'm usually one of the interviewers.

Sharifa >> But today I'm interviewing you because we are going to be talking about Mary, the mother of Jesus. Now we're talking about her perhaps in a different light than the audience might usually be used to her. We usually don't hear about Mary unless it's Christmas time. Right?

Kelley >> Right. Right. Seems a little weird to be talking about her now because it's nowhere near Christmas when we're recording. And you should be listening to this after the New Year for sure.

Sharifa >> Exactly. But when we only hear from Mary about Mary at Christmas time, there is so much depth and wisdom that we miss. She is a part of our cloud of witnesses, so to speak.

Kelley >> Yeah.

Sharifa >> Someone to glean wisdom from and to learn from and to take inspiration from. Well, you’re studying about Mary in part for your dissertation.

Kelley >> Yes.

Sharifa >> I want to get into it with you. One of the ways that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is identified in the larger church and traditionally in the Roman Catholic Church is as Mary of the Seven Sorrows. Is that correct?

Kelley >> Yes.

Sharifa >> What is. . .

Kelley >> Mary has a lot of titles.

Sharifa >> A lot of Titles.

Kelley >> That's yeah, that's definitely one thing I think Protestants don't understand or may not even be aware of is the fact that the larger church and we could say the Catholic Church with this started way before there was any division of church when we were all united in the Patristic Era and then through the Medieval Time and all that.

Mary was very much honored and she came by all these different names to emphasize different parts of her character and role within the church. Typically, as someone that would be an intercessor,

Dr. Jennifer McNutt, author of The Mary We Forgot

BOW Team Member, Sharifa Stevens

Who is the Mary that we forgot? Mary Magdalene. Although she was the first apostle or messenger of the Good News, Dr. Jennifer McNutt says that her story is often confused, scandalized, and undervalued by the church. Don't miss Dr. McNutt's lively conversation with Sharifa Stevens about her book, The Mary We Forgot.

In this podcast, Dr. McNutt helps us see Mary's prominence in the Gospels and how she serves as a model of discipleship for both men and women today instead of being the Mary we forgot.

This episode is also available on video.

Resources:

The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today

Jennifer Powell McNutt

McNuttshell Ministries

Timestamps:

00:21 Introducing Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt

01:56 What compelled you write about Mary Magdalene?

06:42 What do we Protestants tend to forget about Mary Magdalene?

09:06 Who is she according to the biblical account?

19:48 A hermeneutic of surprise

23:38 Her story shows God's power.

27:41 Advice for women called to ministry but limited in opportunity

31:57 Who are the people whom we tend to overlook today?

35:05 Why read the book, The Mary We Forgot?

TranscriptSharifa >> Hi, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Ordinary Women. My name is Sharifa Stevens, and I have the distinct honor of welcoming Dr. McNutt to our program today. Let me tell you a little bit about this scholar Jennifer Powell McNutt is the Franklin S. Dyrness Chair of Biblical and Theological Studies and Professor of Theology and History of Christianity at Wheaton College.

She is an award-winning author, a fellow in the Royal Historical Society and an ordained teaching elder in the Presbyterian tradition. Dr. McNutt serves as a Parish Associate at her church and regularly speaks at universities, seminaries and churches across the country. She and her husband co-founded McNuttshell Ministries, which is fun to say, which serves as a bridge between the Academy and the church.

They live with their three children in Winfield, Illinois. Dr. McNutt is also the author of a book that we are talking about today, which is called The Mary We Forgot. Go out and get it. Dr. McNutt, it’s an honor to be with you today. Thank you for coming.

Dr. McNutt >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to meet you and to get connected with your ministry and the good work that you're doing.

Sharifa >> Thank you. Well, why don't we just dive right into it?

So what compelled you to write The Mary We Forgot? And how did that conviction sustain you through the research and writing and in the process through the years—working and children?

Dr. McNutt >> Yes, I think, it's been a long journey with Mary Magdalene. I talk a little bit about that journey in my book—about going to see Jesus Christ Superstar as a teenager and being super confused. And sort of wondering and I think, you know, because of the fact that in my church, we really did include the women of the Bible.

But with Mary Magdalene, it was so very muddled, very confused about who she was and what she means when she is this first witness at the empty tomb and before the risen Christ on that Easter Sunday.

You know, there's so many questions. I think as a woman who was drawn and called to ministry, I have been, you know, wanting to understand the Gospels and women in the Gospels and how they have contributed to Jesus's ministry. And also in the Pauline epistles as well. I think there are other women that I would go to before I would go to Mary Magdalene.

And a lot of that had to do with kind of the back story that, you know, traveled with her everywhere.

Then, you know, later as a scholar, I worked on the history of the Bible and history of the interpretation of the Bible. And I focused on the Reformation. And it was just so interesting to see how the reformers—both the male refor...

Julie Pierce

Kay Daigle

There is an art to giving and receiving feedback. Leaders benefit from feedback by growing as leaders themselves and helping those who work with them. Executive Coach Julie Pierce joins Kay Daigle to discuss how and why to give and receive feedback. Julie's suggestions are very practical and transferable to any situation.

If you have been blindsided by critical feedback (as most of us as leaders have at some point), Julie will help you deal with that and learn to embrace it.

Julie provides great practical suggestions to help you start giving and receiving feedback so that you reach your full potential as a leader.

If you prefer, this episode is available to watch on video.

Recommended resources

Julie's post The Gift of Feedback

juliepierceleadership.com

Timestamps:

00:21 Introduction to Julie & why feedback is hard

08:02 Why feedback is so important

09:18 How we as leaders should give feedback to others

19:48 Feedback in Women's Ministry

26:38 Suggestions for leaders who struggle with feedback

34:32 Responding to critical feedback

40:17 Other resources

TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle. Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast as well as video. My special guest today is Julie Pierce. Welcome, Julie.

Julie >> Thanks for having me, Kay.

Kay >> Oh, we're so happy that you're here today and that we're having this conversation. We're going to be talking about the art of giving and receiving feedback, and that goes along with your role. You're an executive coach. You develop leaders one-on-one through coaching. You consult with teams; you communicate with groups; you do all that kind of leadership communication stuff.

You can read more about Julie on her bio on our website at beyondordinarywomen.org. And Julie, I have your website as JuliePierceLeadership.com. Is that it?

Julie >> Yes, that's me.

Kay >> And Pierce is P I E R C E, right?

Julie >> Yes.

Kay >> Is there more than one way to spell Pierce?

Julie >> There are a lot of different ways, but the best way is pie.

Kay >> That’s good.

Julie >> About right. I mean, that's one of my favorites, so that's good.

Kay >> Well, today we are talking about feedback. And as Julie wrote in her notes to me, “Is feedback the other F word?” And why do you say that? Because we hate feedback? Because it's tough? Why do you feel that way about it?

Julie >> You know, I say it that way, and obviously I'm joking! And yet there's a little bit of truth behind every joke, right? Because we all are so scared of getting any kind of feedback because feedback has become this dirty word. Where we immediately assume it's going to be this deep cutting criticism that is just going to cut to our core instead of this life-giving catalyst for our growth.

And so if we can shift our mindset around it, and if we can get some skills about how to give and receive feedback, it really can be one of the key things that just unlocks our potential and really what God has for us and for those we lead. So it's really critical, and yet we just have that often had such terrible experiences,

Quite honestly, like each one of us probably has a horror story to tell about someone who offered to give us some feedback, and really they just wanted to beat us up a little bit.

And so that's often we have just a little bit of trauma in our background from feedback. And so we just say, “Oh, never mind, I'm not going to touch that with a ten foot pole.” So I think if we can get the skills and if we can shift our mindset about how we think about it, it really can unlock some amazing growth process.

Kay >> Right. Well, you know, speaking of people having that kind of reaction, I remember that years ago I handed out to some Bible study leaders like a self-evaluation and I got feedback from one of my friends who said so-and-so was really complaining about it because she said, “This is just like a job evaluation.

Nika Spaulding

Kay Daigle

Why celebrate Lent? In this episode of the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast, Nika Spaulding joins Kay Daigle to discuss all things Lent. Although we may think that Lent is only for Catholics, Anglicans and other liturgical churches, it isn't. Nor is it all about fasting. Celebrating Lent means focusing on Jesus as we prepare our hearts for Easter.

So how do we celebrate Lent? How does it work and who should participate in it? When did Christians begin celebrating this season? What are its benefits? What is fasting all about? How should we celebrate it? Nika deals with all of these questions.

We encourage you to plan ahead to participate in Lent beginning on Ash Wednesday, which occurs March 5 this year.

If you prefer you can watch this episode on video.

Recommended resources

Readings for Lent

N.T. Wright's Lent for Everyone series. This year is Lent for Everyone: Luke, Year C--A Daily Devotional

N.T. Wright's new devotional, From Wilderness to Glory: Lent and Easter for Everyone.

The Crucifixion by Fleming Rutledge

Bread and Wine: Readings for Lent and Easter.  Each day's devotional is an excerpt from a different author's work.

Music that draws you to Christ

Timestamps:

00:21 Introduction to Lent

05:13 Background of Lent

07:09 Fasting

10:29 Adding in spiritual rhythms during Lent

13:55 Preparing your heart, soul and mind for Easter

16:00 Lent calls us to reflect on the brevity of life

24:06 Other reflections during Lent

25:10 Lent involves community

26:44 Lent is an invitation to repentance & reconciliation

28:32 Suggestions for what to do, read, etc.

TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women. Welcome to this podcast and video episode of the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. We are so glad to have you with us today. Today, our topic is “Why Celebrate Lent?” and our guest speaker is Nika Spaulding. Welcome, Nika.

Nika >> Thanks, Kay. I'm excited to be.

Kay >> I’m always so happy when you join us. You give us such a depth and wealth of information, and it’s so encouraging and positive. A few months ago, and it seems like just yesterday, Nika and I recorded an episode “Why Celebrate Advent? We talked about why we thought that was a great thing for Christians to do. At that time, we decided we would do one on Lent as well.

And so here we are. It's already time. It doesn't seem right!

Nika >> Doesn't seem right. I feel like it was yesterday.

Kay >> I can't believe we're talking about Lent. And you know the day we're recording this, we still have a little bit of time. But still it's coming up and it won't be long before it's here.

Nika >>Yeah.

Kay >>  And I suppose since we talked about the fact that neither one of us had ever celebrated Advent until we were adults. You didn't grow up in the church, and I grew up in a non-liturgical church. And we just kind of thought that Catholics do that. We don’t; we're Protestant.

So I'm assuming that you and I are the same on Lent, that we didn't practice Lent until we were adults as well.

Nika >> Yeah, exact same. I would say the biggest difference was I probably didn't even know Advent existed until I was an adult. But Lent I did know because of the very thing you're talking about because I had buddies who are Catholic. I remember seeing them with ashes on their head and not being able to eat certain foods, and so I knew Lent existed. But to me it was this kind of bizarro thing that once a year my Catholic buddy's did.

That was the extent of what I understood about it.

Kay >> Yeah, and all my Catholic friends— I heard them at school talking about what are you giving up for Lent? What are you giving up for Lent? And I thought, this just seems . . .

Nika >> Yeah. Why would I give up anything?

Kay >> Why are you giving up anything? And they weren't real happy about it, so it didn't make me want to celebrate Lent. You know, I just,

Kelly Arabie

Debbie Swindoll

What does effective discipleship entail? What can we do in our churches to become more successful disciple-makers? How can we as individuals do a better job of discipling others?

Debbie Swindoll joined BOW Ministry Team Member Kelly Arabie to discuss this important topic. Debbie calls us to dive into community if we want to grow as disciples of Jesus. What does that look like? Debbie provides practical and insightful answers to guide us to effective discipleship.

You can watch this episode if you prefer.

Other resources

Don't miss the other discipleship video that Debbie did for BOW, Re-imagining Discipleship: A Spiritual Formation Perspective. It is part of a series that you won't want to miss if you are involved in making decisions about discipleship or if you disciple others. Other podcasts in the Re-imagining Discipleship series: A Theological Perspective, A Church Leader Perspective, A Missions Perspective, and A Kingdom Perspective, and Reclaiming the Fear of the Lord.

Receive a free sample of Debbie's spiritual formation curriculum Life with God

Time Stamps

00:24 Introductions

01:36 Ministry of Grafted Life

02:54 What does effective mean in terms of discipleship?

05:35 Developing the Fruit of the Spirit

09:35 The relational component

15:16 The challenge to experience being seen & known

19:05 What does this kind of relationship with others look like?

22:02 What does such a relationship with God look like?

24:43 It's very personal

29:37 Growing in community

33:03 Helpful resources

TranscriptKelly >> Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women podcast. My name is Kelly Arabie. I'm one of the team members here at Beyond Ordinary Women, and today we are talking with Debbie Swindoll of Grafted Life Ministries. Along with her husband Kurt, Debbie founded Grafted Life and serves as the Executive Director and the director of Church Formation. Debbie graduated with a Masters in Spiritual Formation and Soul Care from the Institute of Spiritual Formation at Talbot Seminary and Biola University.

Debbie also serves as the Spiritual Formation Pastor at her church, Journey Community Church. Debbie, welcome. We are so happy to have you.

Debbie >> Thank you. It's a long thing there. I'm getting older. I'm old now.

Kelly >> No.

Debbie previously spoke with Kay about Reimagining Discipleship. And so I want to encourage our listeners to go ahead (and we'll talk about that more at the end) but listen to that video as well. That will give you an introduction to our topic today. Today we are talking about effective discipleship.

Deb, why don't you start with telling us a little bit about the Ministry of Grafted Life.

Debbie >> Well, we started Grafted Life in 2010 and it was a bunch of colleagues of mine that had degrees in spiritual formation, which is kind of another word for discipleship, or how people grow, how we're formed as Christians.

And we really had heart for the church. We'd gone to this graduate program and we'd experienced a lot of life change and we'd seen people change significantly. And yet we knew that everybody can't go to a graduate program. Everybody can't go to seminary. And so what, what could we bring back to the church that would maybe be more effective, more meaningful, more transformational for people in their lives and in their growth, in their spiritual growth. So we started really praying into that and thinking about it.

We ended up developing some curricula and also starting an association for spiritual directors that could really serve people in the church and come alongside them in their spiritual growth.

Kelly >> So as today we're talking about effective discipleship, what in your definition is effective?

Debbie >> Okay, that's a really good question because I'm not sure when we think about discipleship, we always think about effective.

You know, if you just look up in the dictionary, what is effective,

The focus of this episode is our interpretation and understanding of women in the story of Scripture. We at BOW are thrilled to welcome once again Dr. Sandra Glahn of Dallas Seminary. In this recording Dr. Glahn talks with Kay Daigle about the way we interpret the stories of women in Scripture and how that affects our perspective of them. Additionally she suggests that we learn to understand them from the context and provides many examples of how to be true to the text--and there are so many!

Whether you're a teacher of the Word or you're reading through the Bible and want to understand the women in the story of Scripture, you'll be encouraged as a woman by Dr. Glahn's insights and helps. You can also access this episode on video if you prefer.

You may also want to access some of the many episodes featuring Dr. Glahn and her insights and scholarship.

Time Stamps

00:24 Why this topic?

02:02 The elements of story help us interpret correctly

06:12 How does knowing more about narrative help us interpret?

07:02 Noticing whether a person is named or not

10:15 Faulty approaches to the story

12:56 How do we correct faulty interpretations?

15:04 Who are some women in the Bible we tend to skip?

21:32 Evil-izing women of the Bible & not the men

23:50 Questions that women are asking about the Bible

26:40 How will understanding story help us avoid faulty interpretations?

32:24 Final encouragement for Bible teachers

34:17 Other resources from Dr. Glahn

TranscriptKay >> Welcome to this Beyond Ordinary Women Ministry podcast. We're so happy to have you on video or our podcast. Our guest today is Dr. Sandra Glahn, who has been with us many times. Welcome, Sandi. Thank you for being here.

Dr. Glahn >> Such a pleasure. Always a pleasure. Love what you're doing.

Kay >> Thank you so much. I always contact Sandi once or twice a year and just say, what do you have going on? What can we talk about? Because I know what a blessing it will be to all of you out there. And today we are talking about “Women in the Story of Scripture.” And I'm particularly excited about this one.

Why are you working on this right now? Do you want to give us a little background?

Dr. Glahn >> Yeah. So I'm working on a book right now called A Woman's Place in the Story. And my pitch was basically this: First we had men's history, and we study David and we study the children of Israel, and we study Moses, which is important to study as Scripture is important. But we tended to initially just skip the women and then as a corrective have gone back and done studies on the women of the Bible, which we are not done doing, by the way.

So it's still completely appropriate to have a women's study Bible and studies of women because so often they were left out. Example, you might have heard a sermon series on Genesis that skipped the story of Tamar, that's essential to the plot of Joseph's life and to his brother Judah. So my argument is we need to go beyond cameoing women.

The ideal would be to just tell the story but include the women as they're in the story because they're serving an important function in the story. And so what I want to talk about now is some of the tools we need to see them so that we interpret what's happening appropriately.

Kay >> Well, that's great. I'm really excited about this as a Bible teacher myself. So I know I'm going to learn from you today, and I suspect that everyone out there will as well.

So first, let's talk just a little bit about the elements of story.

Dr. Glahn >> You think about if you read a novel, you’ve got a character, you've got a plot, you've got a setting. One of the things to know when we're reading the Hebrew Bible is that often the land acts as much like a character as a person, and God's using the land and things like this—we’ll get to the daughters of Zelophehad later.

But just as an example: these women who come and they're concerned that their father's name will be forgotten,...