Here are three big insights that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Charles Vogl: 

Leadership maturity means rejecting the “Superman” myth of doing it all alone;

Real change requires creating spaces where the rules are rewritten; and

Belonging — and transformation — scale through small, steady “campfire” gatherings, not grand events.

Charles Vogl, author of The Art of Community, has spent his career helping leaders move from heroic independence to interdependent impact. Drawing from his work with the Peace Corps, the military, and mission-driven organizations, Charles shows how leaders can build communities that hold trust, courage, and connection — without losing focus on performance.

The conversation explores how to create “sacred spaces” where vulnerability is safe, why deep community often looks boring on the surface, and how scaling change means working in small units with intention.

If you’re leading transformation, culture, or organizational change, this episode offers grounded, practical insight into how belonging becomes your most powerful change strategy — and why it’s time to put the Superman cape away.

Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. This is the podcast for transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery.

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