Cider Chat

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected.

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

• Time
• Temperature
• Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
• Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

• Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
• Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough. BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

• Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
• SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
• A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

• Listen to Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA

Contact info for Stormalong

• Website https://www.stormalong.com/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

In this episode on How-to Make cider:

• Benefits to you when you make cider at home
• Where to get your juice, what kind of juice and "what if you have an apple tree in your yard?"
• Basic equipment needed to make a gallon to 5 gallons of cider.
• The process for both a "controlled" cider and a wild ferment.
• How to clean your equipment

Equipment and Juice

By buying your equipment via the links provided, you provide a monetary kick back to Cider Chat at no extra cost to YOU.

• Fresh pressed apple juice - try to find a cider mill that has on hand fresh pressed juice!
• Carboy - A carboy or some sanitized vessel to hold the juice, with enough room for it to ferment and not bubble over.
• Airlock - The airlock helps release carbon dioxide (CO2) and keep out Oxygen!
• • The 1 piece, S-curved airlock design comes with a stopper.
  • Stoppers and Airlocks buy as one unit

Juice Options to Make Cider

• Pick your own apples and press on site
• Buy fresh pressed juice from a cider mill
• Buy a gallon of juice at the grocery story - not top quality, but not a bad start to see if you want to go full in on making cider as a hobby.

Books on Making Cider

The Big Book of Cidermaking

Maxim Brecht didn't grow up thinking he wanted to become a cidermaker. Cider in Russia is barely known. Maxim says, "People think of cider as being very acetic and dry."

Maxim Brecht

His path towards cider began when he saw the surplus of apples in the country. He had heard the word cider and thus started researching online, which led him to taking a cidermaking course in England, by Peter Mitchell. His time in England made him a fan of English ciders.

Today, he is planting orchards and making three kinds of ciders under his name Maxim Brecht, which looks like Максим Брехт, in the Russian alphabet.

Maxim's Traditional Méthode Champenoise, (6.0%) was delicious! A perfect representation of what cider can bring to a table! I wanted to drink the whole bottle, but my better self said, "Share this one of a kind with other cider fans." I saved a 1/3 of the bottle and a reluctantly, but happily passed it on."

Maxim also makes a Still Ice Cider and Sparkling Ice Cider. I did have a bottle of his Still Ice Cider too. Though it wasn't as remarkable as the Traditional, it was still quaffable. Note in this episode we talk a bit about climate change affects on apples world wide and in Russia.

A big tip of the glass to Maxim for organizing the 4 Part Series featuring Russian makers. He can be heard on all 4 episodes acting as translator. We met at Cidrexpo 2020 held in Normandy, France on February 14th.

Contact info for Maxim Brecht

Website: https://ciderbrekht.typeform.com/to/MVR1RA

Instagram: @cider.brekht

Listen to Part 1 - 3 on Russian Makers

• 232: Russia Cider Party Starts Now! | Part 1
• 233: Oh My God Russian Cider! | Part 2
• 234: Russian's Knightberg Cider | Saint Petersburg (Part 3)

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Elena V. Tyukina is the Brewmaster and co-owner along with her husband of Knightberg Brewery in Saint Petersburg, Russia. Located in the historical district of this premier European city of distinction, is not small task. Think small road ways and antiquated systems that need to be revved up to meet the modern demand of brewing and fermenting. Fermenters world wide are not afraid of doing the impossible and Knightberg is a classic example of this fact. For instance, Knightberg was the first brewery in Russia to brew an India Pale Ale (IPA) and now producing cider!

Elena V. Tyukina

Having studied how cider was made in other countries Elena started making cider in 2014 at the brewery.

• local apples Want to make ciders in a Russian style

The 2017 Force of Gravity, a brut cider aged in oak 4.5%, won a Silver Medal at the 2019 Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition. This cider was aged for 9 months, which meant she had to hide the barrels in the back so that her brew team would not try to sell it before it was ready.

Elena likes dry cider with a bit of sparkle (bubbles) and this cider fit the ticket.

Expect more quality ciders from the dynamic team at Knightberg.

Knightberg's Classic Dry Cider label

Contact Knightberg Brewery

Website: http://www.knightberg.ru/

Mentions in this Chat

• Seattle Cider Summit to Go Tasting Kits! - order by August 30, 2020
• 075 Alan Shapiro Cider Summit

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

OMG and the story of two sommeliers!

Meet Olga and Micheal Efremov are Russian Sommeliers with two cider brands, OMG and Incider.

Michael and Olga Efremov

They are based outside of Moscow in a small town, but close enough to work with restaurants in the city. Micheal is the cidermaker and Olga, the educator, leading tasting workshops.

During this chat recorded in February of 2020 at Cidrexpo, Olga discussed the apple variety known as "Antonovka".

She says it is difficult to make a single varietal cider from this apple because of the lack of aromas. Antonovka is used widely in the US as a rootstock for growing other apple varieties because Antonovka is so vigorous.

Labels from OMG and Incider. Note the first label features a painting from Giuseppe Arcimboldo.

Listen to a special episode on Cider Chat featuring the era of the Mannerist painters and the current Omni Era of Cider.

• Audio Snapshots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]
• Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
  • Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
  • Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
  • Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

• Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company Audio Snapshot
• Little Pomona - in last week's episode 232 shared an Audio Snapshot. Here is an update on the varieties of quince they have planted!

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Russia is having a party and cider is invited! The first ever Cider Party was held in Moscow this July and over 200 people attended dancing into the night and drinking cider!

This episode 232 is Part 1 of a 4 part series featuring 4 makers whom I had a chance to sit down and have a chat with while I was attending Cidrexpo in February of 2020.

This episode introduces Alina Lotkeva, whom helped produce the first ever Cider Party. She calls herself a cider enthusiast, but she also has high hopes for producing a cider and picked the brand name "Ugly Cake Cider".

Alina Lotkeva

Follow Alina and her cider adventures on Instagram: I love Cider

Cider Party photos!

• Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]
• Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
  • Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
  • Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
  • Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

• 216: Alex Ionov | Rebel Cider, Moscow
• Patron Robert Tinnell - Movie short for Hawk and Knob Mead and Cider
• Little Pomona - sent in an Audio Snap Shot

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

The Big Book of Cidermaking authors Christopher Shockey and Kristen K. Shockey are this episode's featured guest! The book will be released on September 1, 2020. Go to http://ferment.works/ to pre-order you copy today!

Moved to Applegate, Oregon in 1998 and found apple trees on their property and began fermenting cider. They also began fermenting vegetables. Soon they were writing about the skill of fermenting and writing books!

Fermented Vegetables

Fiery Ferments

Miso, Tempeh, Natto & Other Tasty Ferments: A Step-by-Step Guide to Fermenting Grains and Beans

In 2020, their newest book, The Big Book of Cidermaking was published

.

In this chat we discuss,

• What the Shockey's home smell like with so many ferments.
• How a married couple co-write a book
• Choosing your adventure in cidermaking
• Making Cider
• Equipment needed from the basic set up to advance cidermaking
• Wild Cider
• Cultivated Ciders

Christopher and Kristen Shockey

• Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]
• Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
  • Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
  • Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
  • Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

• Cider Con 2021 February 2-5, 2021 in Chicago
• Cidrexpo 2021 February 6-8, 2021

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Ciderville Updates & Coming Attractions is a mini episode beginning with info on the England Cider Tour scheduled for September 1-6, 2020.

I also discuss Totally Cider Tours that I will be look forwarding to once we get by coronavirus.

Next up is an Audio Snap Shop from Denmark listener, Sune!

• Find out about the October 10, 2020 cider fest for this country.

Coming Attractions features a reading by author Christopher Shockey. He and Kristen Shockey co-wrote the Big Book of Cidermaking which will be released on September 1, 2020.

Subscribe to this podcast today, to listen to the full chat on episode 231, which will be released on July 22nd.

• Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]
• Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?
  • Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
  • Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
  • Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

The Orchard Mystery Series is written by author Sheila Connolly who passed away in April of 2020. This episode 229 is dedicated to her for taking readers on a journey into the orchards of western Massachusetts, where this series takes place.

The first book in the Orchard Series is titled One Bad Apple (2008). There are a total of 12 books with the last one Nipped in the Bud being published in 2018. The main character is Meg Corey, who moves from Boston to western Mass to a town that she makes up, but I think it might be Granby or Belchertown. As she takes on a project of renovating an old house, she keeps finding bodies on her land which also has an old orchard! Locals to this region and even visitors to Franklin County CiderDays will find lots of references to beloved spots in the Pioneer Vally.

A few years back, she bought a cottage in County Cork, Ireland. There are 8 books in the County Cork Mystery Series. Which leads up to one of the two Audio Snap Shots on this episode.

The first snap shot is from Lee Reeve of InCiderJapan who shares updates on the cider in Japan. Plus the new on the Summer edition of this bilingual (English and Japanese) magazine. This issue features James Forbes of Little Pomona's visit to Japan.

Back to Ireland, we hear from Barry Walsh with an update on Killahora Orchards Cider. This award winning cidery was featured on episode 157

Barry not only makes cider with his cousin and family in Cork, but also is a fine singer. He first shared a tune with us on that episode 157 and so I asked if he would do so again for this episode 229. Barry obliged by playing a tune called the Rocky Road To Dublin.

What continues to amaze me is the small world happenstances that keep taking place around orchards and cider. Sheila Connolly's book is based in West Cork and I just happened to find out about her when I found a copy of One Bad Apple. Wanting to share the good news about this read was a given for this episode, but I didn't know at the time that I would also be posting an Audio Snap Shot from a Cork maker. Cider Synchronicity strikes again!

Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]

Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?

• Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
• Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
• Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

The Philadelphia Orchard Project (POP) was founded in 2007 and serves Philadelphia and it surrounding area. This nonprofit organization both plants and supports community orchards in the city of Philadelphia.

2019 Harvest Festival at Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram's Garden

This chat features a chat with Kim Jordan who has been with POP since its founding. In 2019, she became a full time employee of POP. And is most currently the Co-Executive Director.

• Community orchards are set up in vacant lots to help build green spaces.
• POP works with any groups regardless of need
• All the fund raising requires POP to plan, Plant and help organize the maintenance of the orchard.
• In the fall when the harvest is in there are harvest festivals, Like "Juneberry Joy" that take place in October.
• POP Harvest Festivals take place in October

POP also offers curriculum for teachers and farm educators. Go to the POP resource page to see the full list of offerings.

POPHarvest event on the University of Pennsylvania campus from October 2018

Mentions in this Chat

Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to [email protected]

Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?

• Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
• Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
• Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube