Cider Chat

The Color of Cider provides a snap shot of an early practices used to deter black farmers gaining true equality and the difficulties facing African Americans today who may view farming as a step back to the plantation.

We begin this episode with a quote from Booker T. Washington who born into slavery on April 5, 1856. He was able to learn to read and write despite the tendency of slave owners to not allow blacks to gain education. He help co-found the Tuskegee Institute.

On September 18, 1895 Washington gave a speech at the Cotton States and International Exposition in Georgia. He asserted that vocational education, which gave blacks an opportunity for economic security, was more valuable to them than social advantages, higher education, or political office. Washington asked blacks to "Cast down your buckets where you are" and focus instead on becoming agricultural and industrial laborers. In essence he was asking for blacks to not push against racial segregation.

In turn for this act of accepting one's station in the black community, he asked for a guarantee that blacks would receive a basic education and due process in the law.

The largely white audience in attendance loved the speech. The fall back from the black community, who were called at the time "Black Intellectuals" was immediate outrage. W.E.B. DuBois, also a famous black activist called Washington's speech, the"Atlanta Compromise."

Du Bois denounced Washington platform to accept ones position.

What was curious about Washington was that he asked Black Americans to accept their unequal position, while at the same time secretly funded litigation for civil rights cases.

Five years later, in 1900 Washington founded the National Negro Business League, with the mission of promoting the economic development of African Americans. He wrote a ground breaking auto biographical book called Up From Slavery.

One particular quote/story from B. T. Washington makes the case of why it was and so hard for Black to gain upward mobility. This comes from an article in the Country Gentleman magazine described as a journal for The Farm, The Garden and The Fireside.

"In one case I happen to remember a family that had three or four strong persons at work every day that was allowed to rent only about ten acres of land. When I asked the owner of the plantation why he did not let this family have more land he replied that the soil was so productive that if he allowed them to rent more they would soon be making such a profit that they would be able to buy land of their own and he would lose them as renters. This is one way to make the Negro inefficient as a laborer—attempting to discourage him instead of encouraging him."

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to see that Cider today is white because blacks did not have the same opportunity to own land and farm.

Washington died on November 14, 1915.

Today in 2020, we are witnessing an uprising of Black Lives Matter taking place not only in the US, but world wide. Today's Black Live Matters shows I believe that Washington's call for acceptance of one's status didn't work. Blacks have never been treated with a fair due process in the law.

For our modern times, I recommend the following book.

Farming While Black : Soul Fire Farm's Practical Guide to Liberation on the Land

by, Leah Penniman

Published by Chelsea Green Printing

Contact for Soul Fire Farm

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Northern Spy is a short story that weaves the tale of the early grafting of the apple known as the Northern Spy, Quaker values, and the Underground Railroad. Read and written by Ryan Monkman, for the new Cider Chat segment titled "Stories in Ciderville".

For additional reading and inspiration look to the children's book An Apple for Harriet Tubman.

Northern Spy

by Ryan Monkman

About 200 years ago, somewhere in Upstate New York, a boy ran through the woods. He hid in a bush under a tree. Then, when no one found him, he stood up and grabbed an apple above him. He bit the apple then spat it out. It was horribly acidic.

The boy ran back to town and convinced a friend to take a bite of the "wonderful" apple. Soon it was a game: try the apple, spit it out.

But the boy's father liked the acid. The two of them walked back to the forest and picked the tree clean. They put the apples in bins then put those bins in their root cellar. Everyday the father would have an apple with breakfast. Everyday the son would try to sucker a new friend.

After a few weeks in storage, the apples grew sweet. The father didn't like them anymore and the son's game grew boring. So the crates sat, untouched and unloved, next to the potatoes.

The boy's mother found the apples in mid Spring. Somehow they still looked and tasted like apples after months underground. She took them to a church picnic.

There's a tradition in Quaker communities; speak boldly when the Spirit calls you to. A neighbor spoke and the town listened. That summer they propagated the wild apple.

If you plant an apple seed, you'll get an apple tree but the fruit will be different. With each generation the seeds morph and mutate. The apple changes. If you want to preserve the beauty of a varietal, you have to take a cutting of the original tree and plant the cutting. That's what the town did.

They sent a team into the woods to collect small clippings of the wild tree. Each cut was only two inches long. Those cuttings were then slipped into a piece of root from another tree then the two were planted together. The bottom half rooted in the ground, the top half bearing identical fruit to the wild tree.

The grafted trees were divided throughout the town. Each family grew a handful of trees and the church planted an orchard. Eight years past. Then one day in May the town awoke to a bursting of pink flowers.

That Summer they saw their first fruit. That Fall they picked their first apples. The boy, now a man, loaded up a wagon and headed South. Then another wagon followed. And another. That Winter the town was empty.

The wagons would pull into a new town. The driver asked for the Station Master, dropped off a whack of apples, then left without another word. In each town the pattern repeated. When the wagon was empty the driver returned home, refilled, then hit the road again. By February the town was out of apples.

Traffic on the Underground Railroad surged that Spring. One of the first tastes of freedom was a piece of fruit that never seemed to rot.

Cloaked in secrecy, the apple earned a nickname; the Northern Spy.

by Ryan Monkman

Ryan lives in Prince Edward County, Ontario making and selling cider with his family and cider team at FieldBird Cider.

___________

Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment?

• Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes
• Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line
• Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected]

New England was the Plymouth Rock of cider in the US for the colonist and western Massachusetts is the launch pad of the modern day US cider market. It was here in 1984 that West County Cider and The Maloney family rekindled America's love affair with cider. Thirty Six years forward to 2020, provides a perfect time to explore the terroir of cider in western Massachusetts with Field Maloney, Soham Bhatt of Artifact Cider, and Steve Gougeon of Bear Swamp Orchard, Cider and Distillery and Steve Garwood of Ragged Hill Cider. This Tasting and Talk was moderated by Ria Windcaller, of Cider Chat podcast and presented at CiderCon 2020 in Oakland, California.

We begin this talk with Soham Bahatt of Artifact Cider with a newly built Tasting Room and production center in Florence, Massachusetts. We taste the 2017 Roxbury Russett!

Next up is Steve Garwood of Ragged Hill Cider based in West Brookfield, Massachusetts. We taste the Traditional Dry!

Steve G0ugeon of Bear Swamp Orchard, Cider and Distillery shares with us the 12% New England Style Cider

Then Field Maloney of West County Cider shares two ciders, Riene de Pomme and Pura Vida

Watch this presentation sync'ed with the power point in the exhibit at the Cider Chat YouTube channel

Mentions in this chat

• September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour
• Stories in Ciderville: Submit a cider/pomme focused essay (up to 3000 words) to: [email protected] All accepted essays will be read by the author on an episode of Cider Chat.
• Send in a 90 second audio snapshot telling listeners what is happening in your perfect spot of Ciderville Send to [email protected]

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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What is Flor aka Film Yeast and can the cider be saved? It's all in Part 4 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners. Plus, Why are FieldBird Ciders so wine like and "How did Ryan get into cider?"

Ryan Monkman

Listen Part 1, Part 2 , Part 3 of the Quarantine Quad Series.

Ryan's chat begins at 7:35 minutes

Flor Tips

• First indicator of film yeast is seeing what looks like an oil slick on top of the cider.
• Film yeast will chew up oxygen.
• If it goes on for more than a couple of weeks you will lose aromatics.
• Acetobacter will form film yeast that is more bubbly and it will eventually form vinegar.

How FieldBird manages "Flor"

1. Over top the barrel, because film yeast will float.

• Plunge into the barrel and allow the film yeast to overflow out of the barrel
• That barrel will get capped and topped off every week.

2. Bottom rack.

• Go right to the bottom of the barrel and take everything and leave the top couple of inches behind.
  • There is a substantial difference in the flavor depending upon where you are pulling the cider out of the barrel.

Respond quickly - because of acetobacter growth and loss of aromatics.

Luckily, 9 out of 10 times the cider isn't impacted.

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

• website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/
• Instagram
  • FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/
  • Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/

Mentions in this chat

• September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour
• 214: Cider 'Art + Science' w/ Kim & Dan, OR
• Stories in Ciderville: Submit a cider/pomme focused essay (up to 3000 words) to: [email protected] All accepted essays will be read by the author on an episode of Cider Chat.
• Process NMR for cider analysis: https://www.process-nmr.com/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
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Discover two cidermaking techniques that are also used in winemaking, called Maderisation and Bâtonnage. We delve into both of these topics in Part 3 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners.

Maderisation: What is this technique and can it be used with cider?

Bâtonnage: are there any short term benefits from bâtonnage or does one need to "stir up the barrel" for a long period (1 year at the least) to benefit from this technique?

Listen Part 1 and Part 2 of the Quarantine Quad Series.

Maderisation - The barrels are cooked - sometimes for years. Developing flavors called "maderised".

• If done well it can be delicious.
• High alcohol cider is best for maderisation - slower bacterial growth. Cider that is has a low alcohol by volume - likely to get organism spikes.

FieldBird is planning to do a maderized cider from the 2020 harvest

• Northern Spy, fermented half way and fortified with apple brandy and let the barrel sit in a hot place.
• 17 Brix on the Spys (9%) ferment down half way and then add brandy. Getting 8% sugar.
• Sugar helps - creates the caramel flavor and provides an appearance of freshness.
• No MLF in the presence of sugar. Leave in cellar over the winter.
• Then leave the barrel outside all summer.
• 30 Celsius - 86 Farenheit.
  • This will cause the maderisation

The risk of maderisation is cooking a barrel to much

The final product will be around 17-18%

Battonage: Is it worth it if you don't have a full year to do Bâtonnage on a barrel?

• Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
  • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
• Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

There are short term benefits.

1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
   • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
   • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
   • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

In wine, a Sauvignon Blanc, has rich tropical flavors which come from a rich reductive state,

At FieldBird, they save lees in the freezer.

Cracking - the freeze helps the lees cells break down.

• Using frozen lees that have cracked - means it will takes only 4-5 months versus 8-9 months in the barrel to get the benefits from Bâtonnage

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

• website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/
• Instagram
  • FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/
  • Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/

Mentions in this chat

• Stories in Ciderville - send in fiction and nonfiction essays to read out loud on Cider Chat to [email protected]
• September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
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Part 2 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" continues with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners on working with oak barrels.

Listen Part 1 of the Quarantine Quad Series

Ryan addresses:

Stacking Oak Barrels

At FieldBird they call climbing up stacked barrels: Monkey climbing, where they uses e barrels as a ladder.

Managing Head space in a barrel

Using a solid bung for a full seal and not a bung with airlock

How to sanitize a barrel that's been sitting for 6 months untreated.

• First smell barrel - if not funky you likely are ok
• Find out if it will hold water.
  • Can take 2-3 days for water to absorb into the staves.
  • Avoid chlorinated water or find a way to dechlorinate the water (Do reverses osmosis to remover the chlorine)
    • TCA - is formed when oak is mixed with Chlorine
    • Also known as cork taint

The Gold Standard for cleaning an empty barrel is steam.

• A winery may have a gamajet that is used to clean the barrels via steam.
  • Turn on for 15 minutes

Burning sulfur sticks or barrel disks in empty barrels to protect barrel from oxygen which deters spoilage from occurring.

• Light on the sulfur on fire and seal the barrel
  • Hang the sulfur and avoid drop the disk of sulfur into the barrel

Lighting sulfur disks to put into barrels

More caustic ways to clean oak barrels

• In the US - Scotts Labs has oak restorer that can be used to clean barrels.
• A caustic cleaner to mix with water
  • Citric acid and 300 ppm sulfur (Potassium metabisulfite - KMS)
    • KMS is water soluble. - should taste like lemon water hold unpleasant aroma out of wood and knock back the population of spoilage
    • Ryan has had to do this up to 3x to clean out the barrel
    • If using KMS - use 600 ppm - because 1/2 of KMS is sulfur

Avoid used Sodium Metabisulfite because is can cause instability in the cider and the sodium sticks around.

A Cooper can re-cooper a barrel, but this might cost more than a new barrel and should be a last resort

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

• website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/
• Instagram
  • FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/
  • Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/

Mentions in this chat

• Stories in Ciderville - send in fiction and nonfiction essays to read out loud on Cider Chat to [email protected]
• Full Juice Magazine Spring Edition
• September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

"Ask Ryan" features Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners. Ryan expertise with oak barrel ferments and oak barrels in general inspired this 4 part series. The fact that he also makes mighty fine cider and perry is also a factor.

[caption id="attachment_5059" align="aligncenter" width="300"] Ryan in the barrel room[/caption]

Ryan has been featured in the following Cider Chat episodes:

132: Barrels & Bâtonnage

168: Barrel Aging Cider Inspiration

218: FieldBird Cider | Canada Covid Time Update

In this segment Ryan answers the following questions from Cider Chat listener: Michael

1. Is there a general aging graph for size and barrel Barrel Char to achieving a standard level of Tannins and oak flavor? I'm assuming that your answer will probably be no due to so many variables wood, level of char if any, temperatures, rankings etc.

Ryan discusses the difference between French Oak vs American Oak

• French Oak barrels which provide more tannin and less aromatic vs American oak with more aromatic and flavor but less tannin
• The way a barrel is charred
  • The more toasted - the less tannin vs less toasted more tannin

The FieldBird Cider Barrel program manages the wide range of flavor profiles in oak by having a Large Barrel program that provides a mix of barrel types.

What to look for in a barrel

• Size - look at surface area ratios
• How much of the cider is touching the barrel at any point.
  • The more touching the more flavor you will get from the barrel

2 standard sizes of barrels

• Burgundian barrels - 228 liter / 60 gallons
• Bordeaux - skinny and longer hold 225 liters - just under 60 gallons. These barrels provide more cider in contact with wood.

The higher the % of cider touching the barrel - the quicker you are going to extract.

Oak Tannin is called - sacrificial tannin and it happens to bind with proteins, whereas the tannin in Apples are much slower to react.

Recommend temperature for barrel aging?

Ryan breaks it down into 3 stages to consider.

1 Primary Fermentation

2. Secondary or Malolactic Fermentation

3. Tertiary

What to consider for each stage:

• Depends on what stage you are at during the cidermaking process and what you are trying to say with your cider
• Where will the barrel be stored
• A cooler ferment: 14-16 celsius - rich flora, pretty aromatic, but won't have a lot of body
• At 20-23 celsius - 70-75 F - more body less aromatic

Note: Yeast produces alcohol and it also produces heat. It is hard to cool down a barrel.

Ferment at a cooler temperature until fermentation is over.

MLF- convert the acid in the apples into Lactic acid which provides a creamy bitterness - you need about 70 F. If cooler it will take a really long time. This long time leaves your cider at risk for bacteria.

3. Tertiary or aging from 3days to 3 years

Store at 65 Farhenheit is ideal, but takes a long time to extract

FieldBird uses a Submersible Aquarium heater

• Make sure it is a fully immersible heater.
• Have a couple different sizes.

In the next episode 222: Ask Ryan - he will answer:

2. Do you see a large difference in profiles when stacking barrels on racks of the same batch of cider due to temperature changes from say a rack of barrels 3-4 high. And Barrel cleaning

Mentions in this chat

• England Cider Tour September 1-6, 2020

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
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This is a continuation of our conversation with Arnould Narzain of Paris. Listen to Part 1 in episode 218: Sorbs not Sulfites

Arnould Narzain with a drop backdrop of Sorbs

In this episode Arnould shares even more attributes of the Pomme Sorbus Domestica.

• George Washington brought a Sorb tree back from his visit to France and planted it at Mount Vernon
• Women long ago used it for wrinkles.
• Green Sorbs are said to help cure diarrhea

What else can Sorbs do? That will be for the future to show.

Ria's Ramblings: Accept Your Species

After Arnould's chat, I pontificate a bit about my view on the current state of affairs with Covid, quarantine and helping each other through it all. To mark this episode I even created a new t-shirt design Titled "Accept Your Species".

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Spencer in Sonoma Instagram feed: https://www.instagram.com/species.plantarum/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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Bonus Cider Chat Live with the New York Cider Association's Scott Ramsey

Scott Ramsey stepped into his role as Executive Director of the New York Cider Association on March 1, 2020.

New York State was soon to become the hot spot for Covid-19. In short, Scott started his new job while a global pandemic was raging world wide and quickly spreading in the US.

The Northeastern Cider Conference scheduled for later that same month in Albany, NY need to be addressed. Within days, the Association made the executive decision to postpone the 3 day conference.

In this chat we find out a bit more about Scott's background and what the Association is currently working on and what opportunities lie ahead for this active apple state.

Contact the New York Cider Association

Website: https://www.newyorkciderassociation.com/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
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Sorbus Domestica enthusiast Arnould Narazian of Paris France, shares his knowledge and passion for this King of all Pommes. This "Service Tree's wood was used for wooden screws used in wine presses and the fruit to help cure ailing cider and wine.

This chat was recorded at Cidrexpo in February 2020 in Caen France.

The main chat begins at 9:20 minutes

Arnould Nazarian

What are some of the cultural/traditional name for Sorbus Domestica?

• North of France it is called "Cormé"
• South of France it is referred to as "Sorb"
• Service Tree
• Spierling - German

What inspired Arnould's affection for Sorbus Domestica

A dream and a visit to a train station in the north of Paris called Gare d'Achères–Grand-Cormier based to the North west of Paris in the town of Achères

What are the special attributes of Sorbus Domestica?

• Sorb was used for making mechanical devices such as cog wheels for mills. This was very important for milling up corn and grains for food. These mechanisms came about in the Middle Ages of the 11-12th century
• The wood was also used for the main screw used to press both wine and olives for olive oil. And, early printing presses used Sorb wood too!

Germinating Sorbus Domestica seeds

Germinating Sorbus Domestica

For the seeds to geminate they must be eaten by a bird or rabbit first.

But Arnould has since found some other ways to germinate this King of Pommes.

• Source seeds in October/November - they must be immediately be placed into moist sand.
• Then placed in a refrigerator at 2degree Celsius or 35 degrees Fahrenheit.
• Then the seeds are put outdoors in March
• The odds of the seed germinating is 95%.

Sorbs like

• Sandy soil
• Sun light
• Not a lot of water
• And the roots can be 6-8 meters down which translate to 26 feet!

Sorb Fruit

What does the Sorb fruit look like?

The fruit of a Sorbus Domestica look like miniature apples and pears and have a range of colors from red, green, yellow and orange. The shape can be round or pear like.

Are there different varieties of Sorbus Domestica?

Arnould says yes, but those varieties are now lost.

Sorbs though large have a special attribute that enables farmers to plant these trees in crop fields

Arnould calls the leaves "Peanut Leaves" which means they are small and thus cast a very light shadow for the surrounding area

The Day of the Cormé - a celebration of Sorb held in November

Buy trees, marmalade, wood products, held in Normandy.

Contact Arnould

• via Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arnouldnz/?hl=en

Mentions in this Chat

• TeePublic Cider Chat Swag Store - new designs

Sorbus Domestica -t shirt at Cider Chat Teepublic Store

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

• Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!