Cider Chat

Marijuana as of 2020 is now legal in 15 states in the United States. CBD products are popping up in can drinks nearly every where you look these days. Is it legal? Can cider now be fused with cider or at least CBD or perhaps THC? Find out in this special presentation prerecorded at CiderCon2020.

Opening slide to: Current regulatory status of marijuana and CBD beverages

Presentors Attorney Marc Sorini and Attorney Alva Mather of McDermott Will & Emery LLP

Marc Sorini Alva Mather

Topics presented:

• How The Controlled Substance Act (CSA) impacts marijuana use.
• Status of marijuana Under Federal Law
• The politics and law relating to cannibus
• The Cole Memo during the Obama Administration running through the Trump administration
• Appropriation restrictions affecting marijuana law
• Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) vs Cannabidiol (CBD)
• Industrial Hemp
  • Agricultural Act of 2014 (2014 Farm Bill) vs Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018 (2018 Farm Bill)
• Former Commissioner Gottlieb statement in 2018 and its impact on FDA regulations
• How the Food Drug Administration(FDA) and the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) work together regulation cider
  • Is marijuana Generally Recognized as Safe (GRS) by the FDA?

• What is the enforcement concerning CBD products?
• What does the future hold for having THC in cider?
• Why labeling (COLA) counts!

From the presenter's presentation:

TTB has made it clear that it will not approve any formula for a product containing a Schedule I controlled substance

TTB has also made it clear that it has conferred with FDA and will not approve a formula for a product containing ingredients not recognized as GRAS

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Becoming Pomona was recorded at the 25th Franklin County CiderDays in November of 2019.

The goal of this pomona panel discussion was to share personal stories on the inspirational effect of CiderDays on women in the cider industry, specifically the following women:

• CiderDays co-founder Judith Maloney of West County Cider. Judith was crowned Queen Pomona the night prior to this panel discussion

Judith Maloney | West County Cider

• Autumn Stoscheck - Eve's Cidery

Autumn Stoscheck, Even's Cidery

• Ria Windcaller - Cider Chat & Totally Cider Tours

Ria at Bulk Cider

• April Woodard - Panel moderator, Cidermaker, and CiderDays Committee

April Woodard

April moderated this talk, with Judith speaking first, then Autumn, Ria and April.

Referring back to CiderDays.

"People loved their cider no matter what it tasted like."

And on the impact of this event moving forward,

"We created more than something that is drunk - it is in the spirit."

In 2020, due to the coronavirus 19, a Cider Trail was created for western Massachusetts and the Berkshires. The trail extended the offerings that usually took place just on one weekend expanding it over October into the new year.

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Powell served as executive director of the New England Apple Association from 1998 to 2024 ( the NEAA closed it's doors on June 30, 2024) go to Episode 417 to hear more about the legacy and shuttering of this 89-year-old organization. He published the blog newenglandorchards.org, and is the author of America's Apple.

And Apples of New England

Powell was founding editor and publisher of New England Watershed Magazine, named Best New Publication of 2006 by Utne Reader. He lives in Hatfield, Massachusetts

"As American as apple pie…" Apples have been part of American history and folklore since colonial days. Orchards used to cover the hillsides of New England until Prohibition times when most of the trees, which were used more for the production of hard cider than edible fruit, were cut down. But now that cider is coming back into fashion, the orchards with their many varieties of new and heirloom apples are being regrown.

This fascinating lecture will offer advice about rare heirlooms and newly discovered varieties, comments on the rich tradition of apple growing in New England and on the "fathers" of American apples―Massachusetts natives John Chapman ("Johnny Appleseed") and Henry David Thoreau. Apples of New England will present the apple in all its splendor: as biological wonder, super food, work of art, and cultural icon.

Apples of New England was presented as part of the Amherst Historical Society – History Bites, a lunch time series that is currently being conducted via online video presentations.

View the YouTube video of this presentation at Cider Chat's YouTube channel and while there do Subscribe!

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Franklin County CiderDays now has a "Cider Trail" with 16 stops covering western Massachusetts and the Berkshires! This is part 2 of the series on traveling the Cider Trail and we will look at 10 stops along the trail. Episode 243 is part 1 of this series and details a 5 stop loop and day trip.

View from West County Cider - picnic area looking out to Vermont and New Hampshire[/caption]

This episodes brings us west of the Connecticut River and into the rolling hills of west county.

We begin with:

Bear Swamp Orchard - Distillery and Cidery

• 1209 B Hawley Road, Ashfield MA 01330Bottle Shop Saturday and Sunday 1-5 on November 7th & 8th Bear Swamp Orchard WebsiteTelephone (413) 625-2849

The apple brandy/hard cider bottle shop and tasting room is open November 7th & 8th (traditional cider days weekend) 1-5 PM all dates. Besides that we will still offer Saturday afternoon in person pick up for orders through our online store until the end of November.

Bear Swamp is at the top of the hills on the east side of the Berkshires in western Massachusetts, with views that reach out to Vermont and New Hampshire. The farm borders the Trustees of Reservations Bear Swamp Reservation, which offers miles of scenic hiking trails and views of its own.Look for:

• Hard Cider, brandy and liqueurs.
• Vinegar (raw, unpasteurized, untreated)
• Jams and Jellies
• Maple syrup

Headwater Cider

• 112 Forget Road, Hawley, MA 01339
• Open weekends, Oct. 10-November 8; 10-5 Saturdays and Sundays
• Headwater Cider Website
• (413) 695-6099

Grow What You Press. Press What You Grow.Estate Cider from Franklin County. Crisp and Dry. Grown, Pressed, and Bottled here at the orchard. Sample and purchase a range of alcoholic ciders at the source!

$12 / 750ml bottle

Pine Hill Orchards

• 248 Greenfield Road, Colrain, MA 01340
• Store open daily 9am-6 pm, year-round. Food trailer operates Thursday-Sunday 9 am-4 pm, seasonally
• Pine Hill Orchard website
• Pine Hill Orchards on Facebook
• (413) 624-3325

Orchard selling apples, cider and locally made foods.

Special Blend Cider Sale for Cider Days Weekend: Bring your carboys and barrels to fill up with fresh-pressed specialty blends for bulk sale! Four different blends with multiple cider varieties used. 4000+ gallons will be available on November 7th and 8th from 9am to 5pm ONLY!! First come first served!

Bob DeLisle and Charlie Olchowski will be available all Saturday morning at the juice room to answer cider making questions and to give guidance. The Farm Store is open year-round from 9 am to 6 pm daily. The New Food Trailer is open seasonally Thursday through Sunday serving over-the -top burgers, poutine, irresistible fried dough, and more! Make sure to grab a bag of Cider Donuts!

Ryan & Casey Liquors

• 55 Main St., Greenfield, MA 01302
• Hours of operation: Mon-Sat, 8 am-11 pm; Sun 10 am-9 pm
• Ryan & Casey Website
• (413) 775-6585

Bottle shop featuring ciders from Western MA producers, as well as other national and international brands, plus wines, beers, and spirits. There will be samples and discounts on cider and all things apple from mid-October through Franklin County CiderDays weekend (Nov. 7-8).

Shelburne Falls Cork

• 1 Deerfield Avenue, #2, Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
• Wednesday- Saturday 11am - 6pm; Sunday 2pm - 5pm
• Shelburne Falls Cork Website
• Shelburne Falls Cork on Facebook
• (413) 362-0265

Hard cider, artisanal wine, craft beer, local cheese, charcuterie, chocolate, and preserves. It is my desire to sell local hard ciders, craft beer, and wine from family-owned wineries, where I think the best values are found. We also carry local cheese and charcuterie from Massachusetts and Vermont. And of course, we have case discount of 10% for mixed or not mixed cases of hard cider and wine.

West County Cider

• 208 Peckville Rd. Shelburne MA 01370
• Thurs. 2-5, Fri. 3-6, Sat 11-6, Sun 11-6
• West County Cider Website
• (413) 768-9318

Come visit the oldest running cider house in the country. Our tap room and bottle shop at 208 Peckville Road in Shelburne will be open Thursday through Sunday this fall. Come for our legendary ciders while enjoying our hiking trails and picnic grounds with a glorious three state view.

West County Cider was started by the Maloney family in 1984 with a commitment to making small-batch ciders with impeccable apples from local orchards. Thirty-five years later, our family has grown but the tradition continues. We use fine-winemaking techniques and focus on freshness of flavor and total respect for each individual apple variety. Every harvest year represents a new a foray into the possibility of the apple.

Artifact Cider Project

• 34 N. Maple Street, Suite 15, Florence MA 01062
• Fridays, 3 - 9 pm; Saturdays, 1 - 9 pm; Sundays, 1 - 7 pm
• Artifact Cider Project Website
• Artifact Cider Project on Facebook
• (508) 308-7361

We make cider for the new Northeast. We produce craft cider in a variety of styles by respecting tradition, but refusing to let it limit us. Using local apples and innovative cidermaking practices, we create ciders that are as authentic, eclectic, and forward-looking as the region they come from. Artifact was founded in 2014 by Jake Mazar and Soham Bhatt and is based in Florence, Massachusetts.

Carr's Ciderhouse

• 295 River Drive, Hadley, MA 01035
• Farm Store open Thursday-Friday, 3-6 pm; Saturday 12-6 pm; and Sunday 12-3 pm.
• Also open by appointment: call (413) 336-7363
• Carr's Ciderhouse Website

Farm shop featuring Carr's wild-fermented hard ciders, vinegars, cider syrup, fruit shrubs, and more.

We produce ciders from locally grown apples and are the authors of The Ciderhouse Cookbook, available for sale at the farm store, which shares how we make everything and contains 127 recipes for cooking with cider.

On CiderDays weekend we will be holding a tasting at our press barn at Preservation Orchard, located at 12 Mt. Warner Road in Hadley, MA. Tastings open on Saturday, Nov. 7 and Sunday Nov. 8 from 12-5. Please see our website for directions, details about parking, and important updates.

Carr's ciders are $12-$15/750 ml bottle

Clarkdale Fruit Farms

• 303 Upper Road, DeerfieldRetail store open 9am-5pm every day of the week, August-December. Open weekends only in the winter months. Clarkdale Fruit Farms Website(413) 772-6797

Fourth-generation family orchard growing high-quality tree fruit since 1915. We farm 45 acres and grow over 50 varieties of apples, including several heirlooms. Our diverse plantings also include pears, peaches, plums, cherries, nectarines, and grapes. We produce our own sweet cider in season, and offer several special blends for holidays in the Fall. Bulk cider for fermenting is available upon request. Find us on fb and Instagram as well.

Artisan Beverage Cooperative

• 324 Wells St. Greenfield, MASaturdays 12-2pm Artisan Beverage Cooperative Website Artisan Beverage Cooperative on Facebook(413) 335-0576

Artisan Beverage Cooperative—makers of many gluten-free, high-quality beverages. For Cider Days we offer our famous Valley and Whiskey cyzers. Apple-honey wine made with cider from Clarkdale Fruit Farm and honey from Western Mass.

Cyzers are a variation of mead, a traditional fermented honey wine, but instead of water, cider is used. Both our cyzers are made with local raw honey and cider from Clarkdale Fruit Farm.

The Whiskey Cyzer gets its name because it was aged in Bully Boy whiskey barrels before bottling, giving it a slightly smokier and oak-ier flavor profile than the Valley Cyzer.

Both variations have been aging to perfection and supplies are limited. 14% ABV Gluten-free.

Valley Cyzer - $15/ 500ml bottleWhiskey Cyzer - $20/ 500ml bottle

Mentions in this Chat

Additional stops:

• Perkarski's Sausage - on Route 116
• Elmer's - food stop in center of Ashfield

3 Cider Features in the press;

• • It's Time to Get Obsessed With Hard Cider, The Next Frontier in American Drinking - Inside Hook 10/14/20
  • Matt Kaminsky - Climbing Apples Trees with a Man Called Gnarly Pippins - Boston Globe article 10/20/20
  • YouTube presentation with John Bunker from Maine Historical Society

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This is Part 1 of a two part series on the new Cider Trail for Franklin County CiderDays 2020.

The following is a recommended loop to visit 5 venues on the map. You can go in either direction of this loop - look to ciderdays.org to find the map and additional info on the other stops along the Cider Trail

1. Beaver Pond Distillery

A German-made copper still for only 50 gallons, means every batch is hand-crafted and lovingly distilled, catching the heart of each run.

Look for the Apple Brandy - double distillation - 1 year in oak

Contact:

• 88 Woodward Rd. Petersham, MA 01366 By appointment only Beaver Pond Distillery Website Beaver Pond Distillery Facebook Page (978) 724-3443

Also available at

• Stan's Liquor Mart
• New Salem General Store - by the Next stop on the Cider Trail
• Ryan & Casey Liquors

2. Stan's Liquor Mart, with over 75 different hard ciders with their main focus on ciders made in New England! With everything from artisanal table ciders to 4 packs of fruited sweet ciders they try to carry a broad spectrum of the category.

Stan's Liquor Mart is a family-run business with over 30 years of experience. Besides the large selection of hard ciders, they focus on craft beer and fine wines and have an extensive selection of whiskies and other liquors. experience a a safe clean shopping experience and located 5 minutes off of Route 2.

Contact:

• 1586 South Main Street, Athol, MA 01331
• (Covid hours) Monday – Saturday 10-8 Sunday 11-5
• (978) 249-9550

3. New Salem Cider

In addition to apples, cider donuts, sweet and hard ciders and preserves, several vendors will also be on site to sell local products. Space will be limited by state restricted event capacity and we will post this as well as any updates on the website and Facebook pages as the dates approach.

Contact

• 67 South Main St. in New Salem, Massachusetts.
• Parking available in marked areas across from driveway.
• Farm Store open every day, 10am-6pm
• Cider Garden open 12pm – 6pm and staffed on weekends
• (617) 634-9392

The cider garden will stay open up to Thanksgiving, with a fire pit lit on weekends, and growlers will be for sale the first two weeks of December.

Halloween weekend, weather permitting, we will be offering small outdoor workshops on home cider making, vinegar making, pruning and orcharding; check the website and Facebook page for additional information and times.

4. Phoenix Fruit Farm

Orchard with 20 acres of apples, 5 acres of peaches, and a farm store featuring locally grown produce and locally made foods. Phoenix Fruit Farm was founded in 2017 by Elly Vaughan, a graduate of U. Mass with a degree in Plant and Soil Science. We press and sell our own ra of raw, unpasteurized cider and actively building toward making our own hard cider, as part of our diversification plans.

Contact

• 49 Sabin Street (farm), 401 Mill Valley Road (store), Belchertown, MA 01007
• Store open daily, Mon-Sat 8-6, Sun 10-6
• (978) 430-9459

5. Ragged Hill Cider

Ragged Hill Cider Company is an award-winning orchard-based craft cidery, specializing in small batch ciders made using traditional methods with no added sugar. All the apples we use are proudly grown, picked, pressed, fermented and bottled at our 100% solar-powered orchard and cidery in West Brookfield, Massachusetts. Located in a beautiful hilltop orchard just East of the Quabbin Reservoir. The orchard offers pick-your-own blueberries, raspberries, peaches, pears and about 30 varieties of apples. All of our ciders are made in the orchard with fruit grown solely at the orchard.

Cider Offerings:

Traditional Dry ABV 6.4% -Light, crisp, refreshing Traditional Semi-Dry ABV 5% - Light, aromatic, fruity Rasé (Raspberry Rosé) ABV 5% - Semi-dry, raspberry infused Honeycrisp ABV 7.1% - Semi-sweet, medium bodied, notes of honey and ripe stone fruit Ice Cider ABV 12%

Our location is easily accessed from Route 9 or Route 32. Other local attractions include hiking at Rock House Reservation and the Quabbin Reservoir, breads and pastries at Rose32 Bakery, and Farm to Table dining at Salem Cross Inn & Tavern.

Contact

• 94 John Gilbert Rd, West Brookfield, MA 01585
• From Sept. 1-Dec 31, Friday 2p-5p, Saturday 11a-4p, Sunday 11a-4p
• (415) 405-5215

This next stop can be a full stand alone day trip with stops at The Spruces , The Clark Art Institute and MassMoCA.

Berkshire Cider Project

Berkshire Cider Project is a new craft cidery focused on dry sparkling ciders. Located in a beautiful former textile mill with adjacent café and distillery. We're open for tastings, CIDER merch, and bottles to-go.

Berkshire Cider Project opened in July 2020. Our dry ciders start in the orchards and forgotten apple trees across Berkshire country. We focus on traditional techniques to craft sparkling ciders that are refreshingly complex yet accessible! Our bright labels and tie-dye accessories are inspired by warm Berkshire summers and the modern art at MassMoCA, just down the road. By partnering with orchards across the county we hope to share our deep interest in agricultural development and sustainability. Located at the beautiful Greylock WORKS facility– a former textile mill turned event venue, co-working space and food incubator. An adjacent café, The Break Room, is open Thursday-Sunday 8am-3pm. Check our website for special CiderDays events

Contact:

• 508 State Road, North Adams, MA 01247
• Friday and Saturday 12-6pm. Check our website for special CiderDays events.
• (413) 409-6058

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Tips on "SelectIng Your Perfect Cider"

With so many choices on the shelf, purchasing cider can begin to feel daunting! This episode will provide tips to help you make that choice when faced with a wide range of cider styles.

Here are the key tips to consider when - Purchasing Cider

Look for:

• Cider made from 100% apples.
  • Look for single varietal ciders to begin honing in on the wide variation of one cider to another
  • Stay away from the fruit and hopped cider until you have a sound idea of what a dry cider to semi sweet cider presents
• Look for a Dry Scale
  • Look for the horizontal graph below on most of all New York ciders

• Color - the range can be from light straw to deep amber. There are redflesh apples like Redfield, which will lend a red hue like a Rosè.
• Cans or Bottles - what really matters is the cider within.
  • Cans have become increasingly popular with even some high end cider finding their way into cans. Plus they are better for the environment, because they are easier to recycle than glass, weigh less than glass thus decreasing shipping cost and are more compact to pack.
  • bottles are nice objects with long stems, often cork and cage which offer up a "Pop" when opened. For a date night, it is always bottle 100%!

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

How to Bottle Cider at Home is Part 6 and the final episode of the Cidermaker Series "Oh September" for 2020

Learn How to Make Cider at Home in Part 1 of this Cidermaking Series.

Part 5 To Rack or Not To Rack is a must listen too because it brings you through the conditioning of your cider before bottling.

When to bottle

• When the Specific Gravity is at least 1.000 or lower.

What is Specific Gravity (SG)?

• Specific Gravity is always discussed as a measurement of "relative density" between the water in solution and all else. Apple juice is primarily water and the rest I consider luscious apple sugars. Fermentation is the process of yeast converting the sugars into ethanol and carbon dioxide.
• Tap water has a SG of 1.000.
• Apple Juice, on average, before fermentation has begun has a SG of 1.040 to 1.065.
• Apple Juice SG will vary depending upon the growing season that year, was it dry or wet year, are the apples fully ripe, the age of the apple tree, and the apple variety are some of the key factors affecting Specific Gravity.

You might not see the airlock bubbling away, but your cider may still be fermenting. To be safe and avoid bottling cider that is still off gassing CO2 - Check the SG!

How to measure SG?

• Measure Specific Gravity with a Hydrometer. The Hydrometer typically comes with a plastic tube that can be filled at least 3/4 of the way with fresh pressed apple juice. Make sure that the temperature of the juice is no cooler than 60 degrees Fahrenheit or 15 degrees Celsius and no hotter than 70F or 21C.

What happens if I bottle my cider while it is still fermenting?

• The bottle of cider can explode. Bottle bombs are very dangerous and can inflict serious injury to anyone nearby. When in doubt - check the SG.

During Bottling you get to choose whether you want:

• Still
• Bubbly
• Dry
• Semi Sweet
• Sweet

How to make Still and/or Dry Cider?

• Siphon the cider directly into your clean and sanitize bottles and cap!

How to make your cider "Bubbly" in the bottle is called Bottle Conditioning.

Options 1,2,3 In order of ease.

1. For beginner makers starting out, the safest and most tried and true method is to add both yeast and priming sugar at the time of bottling.

SG needs to be at or below 1.000

2. Pet Nat is bottling the cider before it has completely fermented and the yeast are still active, but not over active. Priming Sugar then added at the time of bottling helps reboot the remaining yeast and thus create delightful bubbles. Pet Nat best done after you have made a couple batches of cider and have the gist of bottling.

3. Méthode Champenoise is the classical way of adding bubbles and is a 2-step process.

I recommend listening to my chat with Chuck Shelton of Albemarle Ciderworks in Virginia as he explained this technique quite well.

Forced Carbonation is done when kegging cider to make it bubbly.

Making Semi Sweet or Sweet Cider requires adding a bit of sugar to the cider, which is called "Back Sweetening "

• Back Sweetening is done right before you bottle. You get to chose how sweet you want your cider, by adding sugar and tasting! Tons of fun!!!
• Any sugar will work. It is really a about your personal preferences, be it honey, store bought priming sugar, raw sugar, maple syrup. Experimenting and finding the right fit is part of the joy of Cidermaking.

How racking affects the amount of yeast in cider.

• I usually rack my cider 3 times over the course of 7 months and then a day or two before bottling if I see Fine Lees on the bottom of the carboy. If you are bottling 3 months after primary fermentation has ended, chance are there will still be some yeast cells in the cider. Those cells will get kicked started when you add sugar to the cider right before you bottle. The key is to add the right amount of sugar so that you get s one bubbles, but not so much the cider froths over when you open a month later.

Equipment Needed to Bottle Cider - go to Shop tab and find links to purchase items below.

• 2 cases of cleaned and sanitized 12 ounce bottles
• Hydrometer
• Sanitizing solution
• Racking Siphon, Tubbing and bottle filler
• 26 mm Bottle Caps
• Bottle Capper for 26mm caps

Mentions in this Chat

• Finger Lakes Ciderweek Oct 2-oct 11, 2020
• Cider Summit Portland

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This chat provides a a sip of something for everyone, from makers who want to improve their skills to consumers who enjoy knowing why a cider tastes a particular way.

In this Cider Chat, we look at the next step after primary fermentation of cider and discuss the benefits of racking the cider over and why you may chose to not rack your cider.

If you are a newbie to cidermaking, I recommend that you first listen to Part 1 of the Cidermaking Series How to Make Cider at Home

Part 2-4 of the Cidermaking Series feature conversations with the Cider Team as Stormalong. These 3 chats are technical and help both DIY and commercial makers sort through cleaning techniques.

• Cidermaking Series
  • Part 2 - Maker Tips for Growth and Cleanliness
  • Part 3 - Cidery Sanitation Tips
  • Part 4 - Scrub-A-Dub Valves and Vessels

In this chat, I am going to lend my views and tips on Racking Cider.

What does it mean to Rack Cider?

• Racking Cider is transferring cider from one vessel to another.
• Racking does not fully stop fermentation. I consider it a slowing down of the fermentation.

Why should I rack the cider?

• Racking is done to help clarify the cider.

When should I rack my cider?

• Racking is done after primary fermentation.
• Look for dead yeast cells and apple particles to fall to the bottom of the vessel.
• I usually wait approximately 1 month after primary fermentation to do my initial rack. This time varies and could be up to 2 months.

What happens if I don't rack my cider?

The dead yeast cells which drop to the bottom of the vessel are called the lees. Lees left to sit for any extended period of time can give off flavors to your cider especially if you have to much head space.

Headspace is the gap between the liquid and the stopper. If the headspace is larger than 2 inches the cider can oxidized and develop off flavors. When cider is oxidized it can taste like cardboard and that is not desirable at all.

Leaving the lees in the cider and stirring them in is called Bâtonnage.

Bâtonnage is stirring the yeast into solution.

Benefits of Bâtonnage

From episode 233 with Ryan Monkman - Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series Part 3

• Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
  • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
• Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

There are short term benefits.

1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
   • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
   • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
   • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

Equipment needed to Rack Cider

• Second vessel of equal size - make sure it is food grade and sanitize before racking
• Food grade hose and racking cane
• extra stopper and airlock for 2nd vessel
• potassium metabisulfite

Mentions in this Chat

Listen to - Not all lees are Gross with Curt Sherrer

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

Cleaning considerations for 3 different cider operations - DYI, Farm Winery and Production with Stormalong Cider.

(l-r) Ben Roberts-Sano, Bright McConnell, Shannon Edgar

DIY - Home Cidermaking

It is soak and scrub for the DIYers.

Soak

• carboys
• parts
• nylon bags
• airlocks
• all threaded parts

Rinse with copious amounts of water thoroughly and sanitize. Boil with hot water, if possible.

Drainage and setup are a major consideration

• Due to the common lack of pumps/ floor drains.
• Effluent should not affect your septic, if you brew a batch or 2 per year.

Biggest maker hang ups

• Using low quality materials which can't stand the cleaning
• Not scrubbing enough
• Not disassembling/boiling threaded or other non sanitary parts

Farm winery set up

• Have some sort of floor drain, and some sort of pump capable of driving a spray ball.
• Rinse by pumping into a spray ball
• Drain to floor when rinsing tanks
• Always pump the water from a fully clean and neutralized tank, to the tank being cleaned
• Spray gross soils in the tanks out before starting to clean
• Tanks must be vented during cleaning, and all parts should be removed. Any areas under manways or probes that might obstruct the spray must manually be scrubbed.
• Take off and clean manway gaskets, and ensure sight lines are cleaned
• Clean and sanitize throughly racking arms and carb stones for best results

Biggest hangups for Farm Winery

• Not Enough hot water
• Not having adequate drainage and wastewater handling

Some small cideries with no wastewater handling will skip all of this in lieu of a steam or hot water pressure washer. They spray the tanks to remove soils, then partially close them up and allow the metal to reach 170-180 degrees to sanitize, then purge out any air with nitrogen argon or CO2.

Commercial scale Set Up

• Automation and verification, regular inspection and replacement of parts
• Rubber parts and hoses that become cracked can no longer be adequately cleaned and must be thrown out. Even steel parts can become too scratched to be cleaned properly.
• Chemicals are tested for potency to determine if they are depleted by cleaning, and to insure adequate rinsing
• The inside of the tank may be tested for microbial action by plating or ATP test

Commercial Plants at this scale invest in better

• Jet or rotating spray balls
• Dedicated cleaning tanks / pumps, caustic recovery, re heat, and re use
• More, and hotter water for cleaning

To sanitize commercial cider makers may use plant steam/ PAA with a dosatron or CLO2 to kill remaining microbes

Biggest hang ups for Commercial operators

• Not inspecting enough
• Not rinsing enough
• Trying to be too efficient

Mentions in this Chat

• Listen to initial Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA
• Cidermaking Series
  • Part 1 - How to Make Cider at Home
  • Part 2 - Maker Tips for Growth and Cleanliness
  • Part 3 - Cidery Sanitation Tips

Contact info for Stormalong

• Website https://www.stormalong.com/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube

This is Part 3 featuring chemistry safety tips for cidermakers!

Part 1 - How to Make Cider at home, provides a recipe for making a 1 gallon jug of cider

Part 2 - Makers Tips for Growth and Cleanliness was the first part of a conversation with the Cider Team at Stormalong Cider in Leominster, Massachusetts.

Stormalong Head Cidermaker, Ben Robert-Sano begins with an overview of these 3 components to and then Stormalong Operations Manager Bright McConnell discusses recommended sanitizers to use in cidermaking.

[caption id="attachment_5428" align="aligncenter" width="300"] Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong, MA[/caption]

In Part 3 we continue our conversation focusing on

• Caustic chemicals to use
• Managing chemicals
• Acids

Chemicals

Caustics

For cleaning fermentation soils, I recommend gluconated caustic at 1%, or PBW for those of you with aluminum parts. These are dangerous chemicals so wear a dust mask(pbw ) , long gloves and eye goggles when working with the chemicals

• Cleaning chemicals are most dangerous before dilution, so don't spill.
• Even a few drips of pure caustic will take gallons of water to wash off , and the residue can transfer, say from your shoes to your hands.

Take extra care when handling chemical concentrates and keep a gallon of white vinegar (or hard cider) and a box of baking soda handy for neutralizing, should it get on your skin or clothing.1-1.5 oz per gallon

Acids

Cleaning also kills bacteria which live in biofilms. In order to maximize this kill, Ben recommends:

• treating hard water buildup
• rejuvenate the surface of your stainless steel parts with occasional acid cleaning
• use strong citric, or Methanesulfonic acid for acid cleaning.
• nitric/ phosphoric are also effective, but have more environmental impact if on a septic sysytem
  • 1-1.5 oz per gallon

Sanitizers

For sanitizing the Stormalong Cider team recommends:

• Iodophor.
  • It is easy to see when it is active.
  • It is effective, requires no rinse, and has minimal flavor impact when properly diluted
  • DO NOT USE STAR SAN it is not an EPA registered cleaner. The Five Star brand makes an iodophor if you prefer their products.

Use 1 ounce of Iodophor per 5 gallons, not 1 oz per gallon like the other cleaners

CAUTION:

Idophor can cause blindness if it contacts your eye. Wear glasses when used.

PAA, Sulfites, and CL02 are very effective but are only to be used by commercial scale cideries. spraying or handling these chemicals can cause immediate respiratory or eye damage if used incorrectly. You should always dose these chemicals directly into water, never remove the concentrates from the barrel using a drum pump.

Dousatron - for eye dousing set ups in production facility.

Mentions in this Chat

• Cockrell Cider - Puyallup, Washington
• Listen to Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA

Contact info for Stormalong

• Website https://www.stormalong.com/

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

• Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
• Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
• Twitter @ciderchat
• Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
• Cider Chat FaceBook Page
• Cider Chat YouTube