Cider Chat

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Prevention & Correction of Sulfur-Off Odors in Cider Production was presented by Rebecca deKramer, cider specialist at Scott Laboratories at CiderCon2018.

Become an eCiderNews subscriber to download the Power Point Presentation that goes along with this presentation. Click download

This chat begins at approximately 9 minutes in.

Rebecca presents on the following topics

• Defining Sulfur-Off Odors
• Causes of Sulfur-Off Odors
• Methodologies for preventing Sulfur-Off Odor formation
• Methodologies for correcting Sulfur-Off Odors
• What kind of strains of yeast to use
• Temperature for fermentation
• How much yeast to use?

Chemical Elements impacting cider

• Sulfur - H2S (hydrogen sulfur)
• mercaptans from by the break down of certain amino acids
  • if they oxidize, Dimethyl sulfide (DMS) or methylthiomethane is an organosulfur compound with the formula (CH3)2S can be produced. DMS is aromatic and can not easily be removed by copper - Rebekka speaks on the use of copper to remove specific odors

The first thing to do for off odor - sulfur

• aireate
  • the most simplest technique to control off odors?
    • Rack cider off of the gross lees
• If at the end of fermentation the cider is producing off odors, "simply stirring the gross lees into solution can help."

Most common factor contributing to sulfur off odors?

• the yeast being stressed

Rebekka's recommendation - "Have happy yeast. If you have happy yeast, you will have a good fermentation. If you have unhappy yeast they will make your life hell."

• Orchards that use a sulfur based spray for orchard control. Depending upon the timing of the spray it could leave residual copper on the apple, that can affect the cider.

Additional cider and cider yeast considerations

• The more clarified or concentrated the juice will affect the fermentation as it will have less nutrients for the yeast.
• Canning cider can make cider suspectible to oxygen

as can some screws caps

24:16 - Fermentation

Indigenous Fermentations or using wild yeast. Rebekka recommends management via nutrient control, because you do not know what yeast is in the driver seat. "It is a leap of faith"

Commercial Pitch - there are numerous options, but make sure to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

• If you have no temperature control for fermentation, avoid yeast that require temperature control.
• Do not under inoculate. The chances are high that you will have a stressed yeast if you do not follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
• rehydrate dry yeast before pitching - to nurture a happy yeast environment

Treat as soon as you start smelling an off flavor

Use the Penny Test for finding H2S.

Drop a 1984 or earlier penny into a glass of cider and see if it removes the H2S.

will H2s or a mercaptan

It responds instantly.

If it doesn't respond Rebekka says that the cider is likely in a desulfite form treat with asorbic acid to reduce

Make sure it is a penny that is as old as 19

Contact Scott Laboratories

• Website: http://www.scottlab.com/
• email: [email protected]
• Telephone: 707- 765-6666

Mentions in this Chat

• ciderGoingUp Campaign
• Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company
• John Edwards - Chemical Fingerprints in Cider presented at CiderCon2018 will be posted soon - Stay tuned. John's business: Process and Analytical NMR Services

Ask for the following cideries and businesses- By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103
11. Ross on Wye Cider and Perry, UK
12. Process and Analytical NMR Services - John Edwards provides analytics of cider - stay tuned for his Chemical Fingerprints workshop coming up on Cider Chat

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today!

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

The main chat with Gitche Gumee begins at 12:00 minutes.

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

_________________________________

Cider pairs well with food, especially Ethiopian dishes that have spicy overtones.

In this chat, Phillip Kelm and I were both attending CiderCon2018 in Baltimore thus the opportunity to dine at Ebenezer's Ethiopian Restaurant and chat cider.

This restaurant was chosen because it offered a Bring Your Own Bottle (BYOB) option. I wanted to be able to try Phillip's bottle of Entropy while dining.

Phillip begins with a pour of the "wild ferment" Entrophy.

We delve into his early beginnings in fermentation science... He started fermenting when he was 16 saying, "I couldn't buy beer, but could buy a beer kit." .. something that Phillip learned in Mother Earth News.

He became a mechanical engineer and first worked in the nuclear industry before moving onto brewing.

For most of his career he has been setting up brewing systems around the world via his business Gitche Gumee Brewing Services, a worldwide brewery installation & engineering business.

He also manages the Palau Brewing Company, home of Red Rooster Beers. Currently he is working on a cidery in India and is a partner at the South Korean cidery, The Hand and Apple.

Our dinner was primarily focused around his cidery based in Michigan's Upper Peninsula called Gitche Gumee Ciderworks, where he makes what he called "feral ciders".

Apples used at Gitche Gumee

• Foragers bring the apples to the cidery and Phillip in turns produces cider.
• He pays .20/pound of apples. They are collecting apples by the ton.

Says Phillip, "There is no [apple] pedigree - they are wild chance seedlings."

Cidermaking technique used for the Entropy

• no sulfites
• no water
• no yeast
• no sugar
• Using French oak barrels.
• The cider is left to do its own thing in the right environment.

Additional cider making notes

• Select only the best fruit
• Only the best skin
• No maceration
• Rack over the lees
• By February the cider is out of stainless after it has been racked off the lees at least 2 times already
• Leave the yeast behind to starve.

Managing Wild Fermentation

• Make sure that the fruit is "solid and ripe"
• Apples are matured for at least a few days or a week

Contact Gitche Gumee Ciderworks

Website: http://www.gitchegumeeciderworks.com/

Address:

• 350 N Lincoln Drive
• Hancock, MI 49930

Mentions in this chat

Threadbare Cider and Mead

Totally Cider Tour: Normandy - September 23 - 29, 2018 contact ria@ciderchat. com to reserve your space on this upcoming trip.

Ask for the following ciders - By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg s
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today!

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

______________________________

In 2000 Rob Miller and his family moved to Frederick County, Maryland after having bought the property that is now called Distillery Lane Ciderworks via an auction. With cider on their mind they immediately got to work creating an 11 acre orchard by planting apple trees

In 2010, Distillery Lane Ciderworks began selling "hard cider" commercially.

Some of the varieties found in the orchard.

• Tremlett's Bitter
• Bulmers Norman
• Porters Perfection
• Kingston Black

Visiting Distillery Lane Ciderworks

• This cidery does offer tours.
• Golf flags are set up throughout the orchard where you can stop and read about apple and cidermaking.
• Stop in an shop - there is a cider store where you can try samples of nearly all the ciders made.

Where to find/buy Distillery Lane ciders?

• Baltimore and DC
• Virgnina
• West Virginia
• Pennsylvania

Tour the orchards and stop at any one of the "golf course" flags that have fun apple facts and geology info at each stop

Contact for Distillery Lane Ciderworks

Website: www.distillerylaneciderworks.com

Address:

• 5533 Gapland Road
• Jefferson, MD 21755

Telephone: 214-683-7052

Mentions in this chat

• DayCider in British Columbia - 120 year old pear orchard covering 85 acres.
  • Follow on Instagram @daycider
• Fenceline Cider
  • 141 South Main Street, Unit C, Mancos, Colorado
  • website http://fencelinecider.com/
• Urban Tree Cidery
  • 1465 Howell Mill Rd NW, Ste 100 Atlanta GA 30318
  • website: http://urbantreecidery.com/

Ask for the following ciders - By supporting these cidermakers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103

Join the #ciderGoingUP Campaign today!

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Find this episode with complete show notes & photos and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

_____________

Rick Moreno opened the doors of Newtopia Cyder in San Diego County California in January 2017. He comes into the trade as an entrepreneur and owner of Tornado Seattle, a bar with a craft beer and spirits focus, also serving cider and food.

Say's Rick of his new venture with Newtopia Cyder that is both a cidery with Tastig Room, we are "making our own new American style".

He takes an engaging approach to educating and meeting the San Diego beer palate by having a set standard flight of ciders called "Four Core"

Rick says, "I created a Four Core (flight of ciders) that hits every part of your palate. We use old world wine processes and blend them with new world beer ingredients"

One side of the cidery is flanked with stainless steel tanks for making modern ciders. This variety can be made in 4-6 weeks and usually have a fruit or flavored component. The wall on the other side of the cidery has oak barrels stacked and filled with what Rick calls "Old World Heritage Cider". The Tasting room has ample seating both indoors and outdoors.

The taps were purposely design to be a bit high to facilitate a long pour as one would do when pouring sidra.

Take home a can or crawler of cider of any of the Four Core Ciders.

Join the Member Club and have access to all of the ciders being poured as a take home option.

What to look forward to in the coming year from Newtopia Cyder?

• Distilling an Apple Jack Brandy in March 2019.
• Expansion into a 4000 square foot building area next door with a meat and cheese parlor too.
• There are 10 acres not on site but not too far away that is being used to grow cider apples. This location will be used as a destination site for weddings and events.

Rick calls the growing Newtopia scene "a compound". The feel though industrial is warm and engaging. Exactly what cider fans want in their cider compound.

The logistics low down on Newtopia Cyder

• Newtopia is Open 7 days a week.
  • Monday-Wednesday 3 PM - 9 PM
  • Thursday-Friday 12 PM - 10 PM
  • Saturday 11 AM - 10 PM
  • Sunday 11 AM - 9 PM
• 12-15 minute ride from San Diego Airport.
• Of note: the road that Newtopia is on also has 56 breweries on that same road! Yes there is room for cider!

Contact info for Newtopia Cyder

• eMail: mailto:[email protected]
• Website: https://www.drinknewtopia.com/
• Address: 10045 Carrol Canyon Road. Suite A San Diego, CA 92131
• Telephone: 858-929-4305

Mentions in this chat

1. Rack over cider now. If you made cider in the fall and it has gone through primary fermentation any lees that has dropped to the bottom of the carboy will begin to affect the cider by creating off odors and flavors.

2. Place orders now for fruit trees, root stock, and scion wood for Spring plantings and grafting.

Sources:

Cummins Nursery I am going in on an order w/friend of Ciderville Joby and William. We are ordering a pear rootstock from Cummins Nursery. Stay posted!

Fedco - a great resource. The catalogues are beautiful.

Fedco's Tree catalogue and also their Seed catalogue is like reading a piece of art. The discount deadline for orders has passed. But you can still place orders until March 9th, except for scion wood.

John Bunker who was on both episode 16 - where we talk generally about the trees in the US and episode 28 where he provides great insight on tree identification, is definitely worth a listen

Colin Scott of E & J Scott Orchard sells saplings of Apple varieties such as Northern Spy and Redfield, plus more. He is located in western Massachusetts in the town of Buckland. Listen to his episode 93 on Orchard Care and Apple Storage. You will find his contact info on the show notes.

If you have a good resource of for fruit trees and root stock out there in Ciderville send me [email protected] and I will share that good news.

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia
10. Tanuki Cider Co. Santa Cruz California episode 103

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and Spotify or wherever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Baltimore Speaks Cider recaps this podcaster's travel to CiderCon, while at CiderCon and the trip home from CiderCon.

I left on Sunday (Day 1) traveling as far as Bethlehem PA. The next day Monday (Day 2) I was set to meet with Joe Getz of Kurant Cider at the Free Will Brewing Company in Perkasie PA. Joe and I sipped on cider and visited the barrel room.

From Kurant, I headed straight to Frederick Maryland. That evening I was pulled over by Officer Kind. A fun little story - that I will save for you to listen to in the podcast.

Day 3 - I headed to Distillery Land CiderWorks - to record a podcast and also had a chance to see Chuck Shelton of Albemarle CiderWorks in Virginia.

After lunch I headed into Baltimore for CiderCon and got ready for that night's dinner recording with Phillip Kelm of Gitche Gumee CiderWorks in Michigan. We went to a BYOB restaurant called Ebenezer's Ethiopian Restaurant. Great food and kind people.

Day 3 I had an early morning chat (8:45 am) with Trevor Baker of Noble Cider in Asheville North Carolina. And then a recording with Marcus Robert of Tieton Ciderworks, Washington.

That evening I met up with Kirk Billingsley for a chat on his cidery Big Fish Cider Company in Virginia.

Day 4 - Thursday was the opening day at CiderCon- Danny Brager of Nielsen did an overview of the cider market. You can go to this YouTube link to listen to last year's presentation on this topic. Then it was time to record with Paul Vander Heide of Vander Mill a cidery in Michigan.

Lunch I was again recording, this time with Dan Brown of Cyder Market LLC. Both Danny and Dan's presentations will be posted on Cider Chat's YouTube channel.

After lunch I recorded and videotaped John Edwards presentation on Chemical Fingerprints of Cider. Very fascinating.

I next ran to Rebbeka deKramer of Scott Lab's presentation on Off Odors in Cider. Again this will be posted on the Cider Chat's YouTube channel.

Next I had a chat with Matt DeLong of Ridge Cider in Michigan. And then had dinner with Carlo Hein of Ramborn Cider Company in Luxembourg.

Day 4 (Friday) I met and recorded with Alex Peckham of Peckham's Cider in New Zealand. That afternoon I recording with James and Susanna Forbes of Little Pomona Cidery & Orchard in the UK.

Friday evening I went to Pour the Core- Baltimore to record mini chats with cider fans - all of which are posted in this episode

Saturday it was time to head home, but as I was traveling with the Talking Pommes we had to make a stop along the way at Perryville Maryland. Perry Pear was both emotional and ecstatic. You can hear the Talking Pommes recap at the end of this podcast.

I had mini chats with the following cideries and their makers while at CiderCon

Heartwood Farm and Cidery in Canada

Tod Creek Craft Cider in British Columbia

Bryant Cider, Virginia

Liquid Alchemy Beverages, Deleware

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Lee Reeve arrived in Japan in 2003 as an artist from the United Kingdom Today in Yokohama, he is still crafting his magician skills, but his love of cider has led him into Japan's growing cider market.

We chat on the current pulse of cider in the country and what Lee is doing to help inspire cider makers and consumers alike. And:

• What kind of apples are used in Japan to make cider and is this changing.
• French vs English cider
• Cider events in Japan

Lee sees that cider being package in primarily large bottles 750ML as a deterrent to the general public at large not reaching for cider when it is only packaged in large bottles

And, the world "cider" in Japan usually refers to a carbonated alcopop versions of cider. Yet, there are many French cidres (the Japanese do use this kind of spelling widely for cider) available, but as mentioned, Lee being from Scotland means he obviously has a hankering for ciders styles that harken back to his homeland.

All this cider love lead Lee to meeting Clive Poole the owner of the Full Monty British Pub and Cider House with 7 draft lines of cider and over 80 bottle option too! Lee and Clive created a working relationship where Lee would write about the cider at the Full Monty and in turn get cider. Along with Kai, Clive's wife, these three entrepreneurs founded the World Cider Experience and now have the magazine InCiderJapan.

What is InCiderJapan?

• - a media, promotion, consulting company
• - also an importing and retailing cider related good and merchandise.
• - InCiderJapan is a quarterly magazine with the first edition being this winter's edition of InCiderJapan.

The goal of InCiderJapan magazine is three fold

• to be educational and informative for the public
• to provide a platform to Japanese makers
• to provide the world with a insider's view of the Japanese cider market

Contact for Lee Reeve

eMail: mailto:[email protected]

Website: inCiderJapan

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/inciderjapan

Instagram: @inciderjapan

Full Monty British Pub and Cider House

http://fullmontyyokohama.com/

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Jake Mann's family legacy goes back to the early days of the Apple growing in the California. His parent's ranch Five Mile Orchard is a locally known historical location, where his great, great grandfather Sam L. Mann settled and built the apple storage facility and orchard in the early 1920's.

The family ranch is located five miles north of the city of Watsonville, thus the name, "Five Mile Orchard". 17 varieties of apples are grown with the majority being Newtown Pippin. The Gravenstein apple is the first variety on the market in late July, followed by Gala, Golden, Red Delicious, Winter Banana, Bellefleur, Mutsu, Empire, Granny Smith and the Newtown Pippin.

In this chat we tour the Apple Storage facility at Sam L Mann Co and ride out into the orchard.

Sam L Mann Co provides apples to the following cideries.

• Rider Ranch Cider Co. Listen to Eric and Katie Ride on episode 110
• Santa Cruz Cider Co. Listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
• Tanuki Cider Co. Listen to Robby Honda on episode 103
• https://www.lassencider.com/
• Tilted Shed Cider Co.
• And apples to Martinellis, makers of a well known US Brand of Sparkling Ciders.

Contact info for Jake Mann

• 2930 Freedom Boulevard
• Watsonville, California 95078
• +001- 800-643-2462

Instagram: @thefivemileorchard

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albemarle CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Yes, Maryland's Got Pommes and there is going to be some big time cider fun at CiderCon2018 in Baltimore! January 31- February 2, 2018.

But first a reminder on: The $900 Price Drop for the Totally Cider Tour to the UK in April 25 - May 2, 2018. Join Ria and other awesome cider friends on this tour of a life time. Go to https://form.jotform.com/73186243884970 and register now!

Pear Pear chats "Perryville, Maryland" established 1620 and the origin of the surname Perry. PerryPear believes that it comes from the Middle English word 'perrie' which means pear tree.

And did you know that there is a town called Hereford, Maryland to the north west of Baltimore?

Lord Baltimore aka Cecil Calvert is referenced in Raphael Semmes book "Crimes and Punishment of Maryland" he told colonist coming to bring: kernels of apples and pears….

Who is attending CiderCon?

The following cider folk are just a few of the awesome people attending

• Tom Oliver
• Gabe Cook, Ciderologist
• Susanna Forbes and James Forbes of Little Pomona Cider, UK
• Alex Peckham, Peckham Cider New Zealand
• Josh Townsend and Jody Scott, New Zealand
• Hamish
• Episode 20: Curt Sherrer, Millstone Cellars, MD
• Distillery Lane Cideworks, MD
• Brian Rutzen, Jackson Cannon, Fritz, Chef
• Quantitative Chemical Fingerprints: John Edwards
• Nutrients Additions or Subtractions and What Happens with Both - Willam Grote, Holly Schmidt, Doug Schmidt and Nathan Williams

Getting to CiderCon from the Airport

LYFT: put in the promo code LyftCiderChat for your first ride on this ride share and receive $5 off your ride.

Here are some estimates of the cost for this trip from the airport to the hotel

• Lyft: $20-29
• Lyft Plus: $30-40
• Lyft Premier: $37-49
• Lyft Lux: $57-70
• Lyft Lux Suv: $71-85

Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport

(BWI) to the Baltimore Marriott Waterfront

BWI to Marriott Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport

12- before 1

6 min walk to the BWI Airport LT Rail

28 min ride - 11 stops.

Get off at Pratt St Light Rail station

walk 1 minute to Howard STreet

And take a Bus on the OrangeLine to Harbor East.

this is an 8 minutes route with 6 stops until you reach the section of Baltimore called Little Italy. Get off and walk throughout Little Italy for 4 minutes to the hotel.

Approximately a 50 min ride

$1.60 both ways

Food options close by Hotel?

• Whole Foods is a 5-7 minute walk 1001 Fleet St. Baltimore
• StarBucks 3 minute walk

What is that monument in the round about by the hotel?

National Katyn Memorial

Cider Week Baltimore

Heavy Seas Ale House tap Takeover - 9 minute walk from Hotel

1300 Bank Street

Baltimore, MD 21231

410-522-0850

Tap Takeover at Max's - 11 minute walk from Hotel

Address 737 S. Broadway, Baltimore

Wondering what the scene is like at Max's? There is a webcam; http://www.maxs.com/webcams.phpPhone: (410) 675-6297

February 11, 2018 - New York International Beer Competition (NYIBC) is accepting cider entries NOW! NYIBC is using the United States Association of Cider Makers new cider categories for this competition. The judges at this competition are in the trade of buying and selling cider and thus judge the cider on the merits of taste and price point.

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Budgeting money effectively is critical whether you are managing a household or a commercial business such as a cidery. In this episode of Cider Chat I speak with Eleanor Leger of Eden Specialty Cider based Vermont now in it's 10th year of business.

Two years ago, she started a blog call Cidernomics.com.

In this chat we get a sneak peek into her 2018 CiderCon on this very topic on the economics of cider and get some real time tips.

The 5 concepts to consider in Cidernomics.

1. Economies of scale
2. The break even point ...and how that changes as you grow
3. Asset utilization
4. Working capital requirements
5. Sales channel economics

What is one the key questions to consider when thinking about a cidery startup?

- Are you going to make cider like beer is produced with a quick turn around or more as a winemaker would producing for a vintage longer term.

Contact for Eden Specialty Ciders

Website: https://www.edenciders.com/

email: mailto:[email protected]

Telephone: +1.802.334.1808

Address: 150 MAIN STREET, NEWPORT VERMONT 05855

Mentions in this Chat

• What is Biodynamic?

As Eleanor puts it "Growing a strong fighting tree. Making our own compost and compost teas that we spray on the trees."

Find out more on biodynamic farming vhttps://www.biodynamics.com/what-is-biodynamicsia this link.

• Scott Farm Orchard

• Autumn Stoscheck Eve's Cidery listen to 2 chats (Episode 90 & 91)with her and Ezra Sherman.

• Steve Wood Farnum Hill Listen to 2 chats (Episodes 32 & 33) Steve, Louisa Spencer and the team at this New Hampshire cidery.

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

A $900 Price Drop for the Totally Cider Tour to the UK in April 25 - May 2, 2018. Join Ria and other awesome cider friends on this tour of a life time. Go to https://form.jotform.com/73186243884970 and register now!

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Eric and Katie Rider are making cider on the hillside of the Santa Cruz mountains. They are dry farming their apple trees and also using apples from Five Mile Orchard in Corralitos. (Jake Mann whose family own's the orchard will be on an upcoming Cider Chat.) Eric and Katie's home and cidery is smack in the middle of an old Stagecoach route between San Jose and Santa Cruz, California.

Imagine for a moment stagecoach riders snacking on plums from San Jose and tossing out the plum's pits along the way. As a result this mountainside cidery and homestead has plum trees growing all around the property. Katie makes a Plum Port from the surround trees, that she likes pouring into a glass of cider as a cider cocktail called Plum Jerkum.

Their ciderhouse is 120 square feet (10' x 12') with variable cider tanks ( a stainless tank with a floating top that rises and lowers as the cider flows). This small shed is fully tricked out with air conditioning and all the needs for making a range of ciders at Rider Ranch.

The current cider offerings at Rider Ranch are ciders made from apple trees that were planted pre-Prohibition, which provides a specific niche to their branding of using only trees that are 90 years or older. However, it looks like they will have a cider made with 75 year old trees coming up in 2018. Either way their ciders are rock solid, tasty delights!

Ciders at Rider Ranch

• Pre-Prohibition Pippin
• Dry Farmed Pippin
• 75 year old Pippin

Contact for Rider Ranch Ciderworks

Website: http://www.riderranchciderworks.com/

eMail: mailto:[email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

Jake Mann - Five Mile Orchard LLC, Corralitos California - Jake will be on an upcoming episode of Cider Chat

February 11, 2018 - New York International Beer Competition (NYIBC) is accepting cider entries NOW! NYIBC is using the United States Association of Cider Makers new cider categories for this competition. The judges at this competition are in the trade of buying and selling cider and thus judge the cider on the merits of taste and price point.

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat