Cider Chat

Vincent Godefroy is one smart cidermaker located in Normandy France. He saw the opportunity to entice tourist visiting the nearby famous white cliffs of Ètretat to his cidery. Vincent and Marie-Clarie Godefroy have a full service cider destination offering lodging for two adults in a wooden barrel see photos at ciderchat.com

The Godefroy's welcome over 5000 visitors each year to an area that is dominated by flax and rye farms. They produce over 50,000 bottles of cider each year, selling half of those bottles at their gift shop and the other half within a 30 kilometer radius of their cidery.

What to pair with Vincent's ciders?

The blue label is an extra dry and is best served with seafood

The semi dry goes well with the local cheese Neufchâtel

Contact info for Ecomusee de la Pomme et du Cidre

Owners and Makers: Vincent et Marie-Claire Godefroy

website: http://www.ecomuseeducidre.fr/

email: [email protected]

telephone:

address: 1315 route de Goderville 76110 BRETTEVILLE DU GRAND

Mentions in the Chat

• Ned Lawton of Ethic Ciders updates us on the California fires happening this October in the Sonoma and Napa regions of the state.
  • Ethic Ciders has been sending supporters to North Bay Just & Resilient Fund. ( link provided here) https://squareup.com/store/caff-dot-org
• Battonage: Stirring in the lees is a technique used to keep the lees in solution helping to gobble up oxygen and providing a broader mouthfeel.
• New York City Cider Week Oct 20 -29
• CiderDays, Franklin County Massachusetts November 3rd, 4th & 5th
  • Go to the Cider Meetup at the Root Cellar on Friday night November 3rd 6-8pm. Bring a bottle of cider to share, $5 corking fee applies.

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Haven't downloaded this chat yet? Here is is again.

The Louis Dupont Family Estate is a 70 acre (30 hectares) orchard that was bought by selling the family's stock of calvados.

In this chat I speak with Jérome Dupont the great grandson of Jules Dupont who bought Domaine Dupont with the family's calvados in 1887. Jérome and his father Etienne Dupont and his sister Anne-Pamy Dupont now run the estate.

Domaine Dupont is on the Route du Cidre in the region of Normandy called Pays d'Auge.

We chat on the growing cider culture in the US and France and working with wild yeast.

The head cidermaker's at Domaine Dupont is Arnaud Ramsayer.

Jérome works with his father distilling the cidre to make calvados.

Pommeau is a blend of fresh pressed apple juice and calvados.

Contact info for Domaine Dupont

address: 14430 Victot-Pontfol, France

website:https://www.calvados-dupont.com/en/dupont-estate.htm

telephone: +33 (0)231.632.424

email: [email protected]

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

In this chat I take you along on my travels a.k.a reconnaissance for a future travel tourist trips to Normandy. This main chat begins at 12:30 minutes

Before I headed to France I first made a stop in the Netherlands, specifically Amsterdam and the well love park called Vondelpark.

Cider Travel Tip: Nearby Amsterdam Centraal Train station is a great bike rental shop called Star Bikes.

While on the bike I found my first Medlar tree laden with fruit.

The next day I flew to Paris, rented a car, and drove out to Normandy in search of the perfect cider loop to bring a group of cider tourists.

I headed to Honfleur and met with Agathe Letelliet of episode 49.

I then head north to see both Etretrat and Vincent who is the farmer and maker at Ecomusee de la Pomme et du Cidre

The next day it was onto meet Jerome Dupont of the Domaine Dupont

The area surrounding Domaine Dupont is dotted with cideries everywhere. You can spend hours roaming around in search of the perfect glass or find yourself wanting for a rest at a cafe to enjoy the French country air. I however was on the quest for cider or as it is written in French cidre (sedar).

I made one more stop to meet with Stéphane et Lucile Grandval – Manoir de Grandouet before heading onto to the Domfront region of Normandy where pears are celebrated like no where else in the world.

Thursday was spent meeting with Phillipe who along with his wife open their farm to a festival of art called The Appel au Bois Normand - this is not an apple fest, but it sure is one heck of a festival.

Having stayed with my new friend Michel Dargent who owns the Airbnb that I stayed in while touring the Domfront region of Normandy, I learned of a local cidermaker whose Poire knock my socks off! I will speak about Roland as I roll out these episodes from France.

My last night in Normandy was spent having dinner with Eric Bordelet. We discussed the world affairs of cider as we drank a bottle of 2008 and 2014 Argellete, along with a bottle of red wine. To contrast the wine with the cider helped me understand and appreciate what Eric offers as a maker. His ciders are about terroir and that means the earth. When he walks in his orchards he looks to the ground and picks up the local stone - You can taste the earth in his cider. Yes they are dry, but they also yield the taste of stone or minerality that you feel on your teeth and in your mouth....imagine being in a rock quarry and having the stone dust coat your mouth. Bordelet ciders are dry and wet at the same time and of course delicious.

Next year in 2018, I will be offering to two trip to 20 people to come with me to the UK and then on to Normandy. Many of the people mentioned in this chat will be part of the Normandy tour, including Eric who will provide a seminar on how to taste cider.

Patrons of Cider Chat will be the first ones to be offered to come on the trip. If you would like to become a patron and help support this chat go to this link.

Next I will put out a mailing on the eCiderNews - you can subscribe via this link.

Suffice to say, it was a memorable experience in Normandy and the Netherlands - and I can't wait to return. Perhaps with you?

Mentions in this chat

• What's up with CiderDays this year?
• The origins of the term "Hard Cider" at 6:43 minutes
  • Winemakers Recipe Book, Raymond

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

This episode of Cider Chat was recorded by Alex Kroh, cidermaker, roving podcast reporter and super, duper nice guy in Ciderville!

This chat begins with Alex and Melissa and Garett venturing outside to the orchard and the asparagus polyculture planting just south of the cider house. They then walk east down the hill to the new dwarf orchard and talk about the differences between the two planting styles.

In the second half of this chat, Alex and Garrett are in the production space below the tasting room and get into the weeds talking cidermaking technique.

• traditional method (champagne method)
• encapsulated yeast vs. loose yeast
• tank carbonation
• making sweet reserve
• fermentation tanks
• yeast combinations
• and the ciders on offer in the tasting room.

Alex writes,

"When I visited the Finger Lakes Cider House in July of 2017, I was completely taken with the vibe of Good Life Farm, which is the on-going vision of Garrett Miller and Melissa Madden. More than just an orchard and more than just a cider house, Good Life Farm is a diverse ecological farm that was designed to do the most good for the land and the community that surrounds it.

Central to their management philosophy are permaculture design principles, a system for managing the human impact on the planet by working with nature instead of against it. The difference between a "conventional" farm and one that incorporates permaculture design principles was immediately apparent to this midwesterner who is used to driving by the country miles of soy and corn. By contrast, Good Life Farm feels like stepping back in time before the Green Revolution transformed the agricultural landscapes of the United States into a patchwork quilt of monocrops with "high tech" petrochemical farming. Instead, Good Life Farm has picturesque orchards interplanted with asparagus, high-tunnel greenhouses downhill from the beautiful ciderhouse, apple trees grown along the contours of the hill, with vegetable rows, ponds and cow pastures interspersed. The methods used at Good Life Farm are decidedly low-tech. They use draft horses to accomplish many of the tasks that a tractor would normally do today. Other animals, such as turkeys, geese and beef cows, help with various tasks like insect control and soil fertilization."

So what does this mean for their cider?

• Garrett and Melissa believe that by managing the land in this way they can grow apples that are more flavorful than apples grown under other management systems and will translate into better cider.

Another component of their farm that contributes to their cidermaking paradigm is their tasting room. The Finger Lakes Cider House showcases their house ciders, Kite and String (previously Good Life Cider), and three other nearby cidermakers including Black Diamond Cider, Eve's Cidery, and Redbyrd Orchard Cider. Melissa comments that because these other three cidermakers are tending toward the drier end of the sweetness palate, Garrett and brother/cidermaker Jimmy have created a number of semi-sweet, medium sweet and sweet ciders in addition to their dry ciders to appeal to drop-in traffic from patrons on the Finger Lakes wine trail. This range of cider style varieties gives them the opportunity to experiment with ciders that span the sweetness palate as well as develop some interesting cider styles that you likely won't find anywhere else, such as a young cider, a royal cider, and a Rosé cider consisting of fermented apple juice and unfermented Riesling and Marachal Foch red wine.

Below you'll find the map that Melissa and I are standing in front of at the beginning of the chat while we discuss permaculture management zones.

Contact Fingers Lakes Cider House

website: http://www.fingerlakesciderhouse.com/

telephone: 607-351-3313

email: [email protected]

Good Life Farm website: http://www.thegoodlifefarm.org/

Mentions in this chat:

Permaculture:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
• https://permacultureprinciples.com/

Other cideries at the Finger Lakes Cider House:

• Black Diamond Cider: https://www.blackdiamondcider.com/
• Eve's Cidery: https://www.evescidery.com/
• Redbyrd Orchard Cider: https://redbyrdorchardcider.com/

Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Making a 1-gallon batch of cider is easy! And a 3-gallon or 5-gallon batch of cider is just as easy to make too! Learn how to make cider at home and begin upping your cider knowledge today. In this episode I cover all the basics on how to make cider at home.

Renoir's "Apples in a Dish" | featured art in this episode's "Pommes In Art" segment Your List for base line equipment needs for making cider

Hint: Do get these items before getting your fresh pressed apple juice to ferment.

Go to https://ciderchat.com/cider-making-equipment/ to download a FREE pdf cider making equipment check list

Get your Cider Jug

Equipment needed:

• 1 gallon jug that came with your cider
• Rubber stopper with a hole big enough to fit an airlock
• airlock – S-shaped

or go deluxe and put the cider in a glass jar

Making a 3-gallon or 5-gallon batch of cider

• What to consider before you get your juice
  • How much money do you want to spend and how much cider do you want to make?

Consider:

• 3 gallon = approximately 22 pounds filled
  • calculated as 7 pounds per liquid gallon + 1 pound for glass carboy
• 5 gallon = approximately 37 pounds filled

I like 3 gallon carboys because they are easier to lift

Equipment needed for either a 3-gallon or 5-gallon batch of cider

A. Two Carboys – always choose glass over plastic

B. Rubber stopper

• with hole in center, that fits in your glass carboy

C. One Airlock

• use either an S-shaped or 3 piece fermentor
• The airlock release CO2 as the cider is fermenting and prevents Oxygen from entering.

D. Yeast

You can spend hours googling which yeast to use – For your first batch of cider keep it simple

Tried and true yeasts. Each come in a packet and are dry yeast with approximately 5 grams.

• Lavlin 71B, nice all-round yeast that helps to mellow the sharpness of high acid apple blends.
• M2 Lavlin – this yeast makes apples sing in delight as it enhances their character. Might even get a richer mouthfeel. Extra bonus – a finish that suggests residual sugar, even though it is fermented dry!
• Cider House Blend
• English Cider Yeast

E. Clear food grade tubing (1/2inch diameter or 5/16) to rack cider once fermentation is done & Food grade funnel

F. Campden Tablets (Sodium metabisulfite) – Used to arrest the yeast that in currently active in the juice, so that your cultured yeast can go to town once it is pitched.

• 1 tablet per gallon. Add to fresh juice and let sit overnight

G. Fresh pressed unpasteurized apple juice

• Cider Blends are best!
• Why not use pasteurized juice?
  • It usually contains sorbet, sorbic acid, benzoate or benzoic acid which not only affects the taste, but can affect fermentation.

Extra Yeast Tips

• Refrigerate both liquid yeast and dry yeast packets. Each contain millions of yeast cells and you don't want them to dry out or over heat

Making a yeast starter solution – a.k.a. double your yeast money by doubling the yeast

By making a yeast starter you

• Increases yeast population before pitching
• Revs up the fermentation
• Make sure you are "pitching" yeast that is viable and healthy

1. Use a clean sanitized glass bottle, such as 750 ml wine bottle and have an extra rubber stopper and airlock.

2. Pour in:

• 1 cup of fresh pressed juice heated for 5 minutes
• Let it cool to the point that if you stuck your finger into the solution it would not burn your finger.

or

• 1/2 cup of fresh pressed juice that has been sulfited overnight, so you know the yeast are no longer viable in that juice.

3. Put the stopper on, with airlock and let the yeast go to town.

Figure 2-days and now you have enough yeast for 10 gallons instead of 5.

Can you keep doubling the yeast starter?

– Yes, you can!

Do the same process as before to triple the amount

Mentions in this Cider Chat

Nathan Pierce's Micro Brewr podcast

Sanitizing solution Star San for cleaning carboy, funnel and tubing

NFG homebrewing supplies has dry yeast for sale for .99¢ – this store has closed in Leominster Massachusetts but the website is still visible as of 2025

Ramborn Cider Company located in Luxembourg is helping to revive the cidermaking tradition as the country's first commercial cidery. Ramborn offers a range cider styles from Farmhouse, Somerset Blend (Luxembourg and English cider apples) and a New World hopped cider. Ramborn has an eau de vie which is a apple brandy produced by means of fermentation and double distillation.

Adie Kaye via skype

" data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Adie-300x200-e1504640758754.jpg?fit=300%2C202&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Adie-300x200-e1504640758754.jpg?fit=300%2C202&ssl=1" /> Adie Kaye via skype In this Cider Chat with Ramborn's Adie Kaye

Adie Kaye discusses his upcoming trip to the Seattle Cider Summit on September 8 & 9, 2017. Make sure to say "Hi" to Adie if you see him at the Summit and tell him that you heard him speak on Cider Chat!

Ramborn is available in Luxembourg and in the state of Wisconsin in the US.

Cider Vocabulary

Luxembourg word for cider is "viez" – comes from Latin word for second wine "viez vinum"

Contact Info for Ramborn Cider Company

• Website: https://ramborn.com/en/
• Address: 23 Duerfstrooss, 6660 Bur, Luxembourg

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 075: Alan Shapiro | Cider Summit USA
• Wouter Bilj – CiderCider – the Netherlands first cider store. Listen to Wouter's on the Netherlands cider scene
• ciderGoingUP Campaign for commercial cidermakers and folks in the cider trade
• Washington Cider week September 7-17, 2017

Cider Writers:

• Gabe Cook – @ciderologist
• Andy May @cidersleuth on twitter, but this account as of 2025 doesn't connect

Pommes In Art presents in this epsidoe:

Still Life with Apples and Pears, by Paul Cézanne read the first blog

Paul Cézanne Still Life with Apples and Pears

" data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DT1491-e1503166660340.jpg?fit=300%2C230&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DT1491-e1503166660340.jpg?fit=300%2C230&ssl=1" data-src= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DT1491-e1503166660340.jpg?resize=300%2C230&ssl=1" /> Paul Cézanne Still Life with Apples and Pears

Colin Scott grew up learning how to care for apples on his parents, Edward and Janice, orchard. The orchard was purchased in 1954. Today Colin is running the orchard and sells his apples at the Chelsea Market in eastern MA. E & J Scott Orchard also has apricots, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, plums, quince, raspberries, & strawberries. They have farm stands in Buckland and Goshen during the season. Their main store is in Ashfield, MA and is open Sat & Sun 10-6 July through May. Organic duck eggs from their heritage breed Ancona ducks are also available upon request.

We begin this chat with Colin inside one of the storage rooms.

What affects the Apple's ripping?

• temperature
• ethylene gas - apples off gas
• Apples are placed in a CA room (Controlled Atmosphere) where both temperature, oxygen and the off gases are controlled.

If apples don't have oxygen they don't ripen. Colin and I discuss the "delicate" process of storing apples or what he called "putting them to sleep".

Apple storage tip: Take your apples out of the refrigerator every once in a while and let them off gas. That will help them last a bit longer.

Next in this chat we talk about

• the beginnings of the orchard and what they grew and where they are going with the growing cider market
• Root Stock for grafting a tree - dwarf or standard
• Shifting his market to cider apples
• What do you look for in a root stock

"The idea behind grafting is to take the variety that you want and put it on the root stock you want. The vigor of the variety contributes to the size of the tree."

The numbering system of the root stock defines the size of the tree or a percentage of the size of the tree

• M rootstock 9, 11, 18, 26 what does that stand for? If you put a Macintosh on standard tree rootstock and a Macintosh on a 26, you would get 30 -40-% of the standard one. A M118 or M111 are going to be 6--70% the size, which means they will be almost as big as a standard tree.

Today Colin is using Geneva root stock, because he is finding it resistant to Fire Blight. A nasty disease that can kill the tree.

Geneva root stock numbering system is random too. Colin is using Geneva 41 & 935. They will be 30-40% of the standard tree. He uses a bench graft on his root stock.

The secret to grafting per Colin

• Lining up the cambium layers
• Getting it airtight

We also chat pruning an apple tree, especially a tree that you are attempting to revive after years of neglect.

Contact E & J Scott Orchard

email: mailto:[email protected]

web: http://www.farmfresh.org/food/farm.php?farm=3762

Mentions in this chat

Smart Freshing

Oesco, Inc - professional grade supplies for orchards and cidermakers.

• link to the bladder press sold by Oesco http://www.oescoinc.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=bladder+press

076: Lou and Sue Chadwick | Grafting with Second Chance Farm, MA

086: Cider Press | Make Cider

Ask for the following 8 #CiderGoingUP Campaign cider supporters - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Ciderville.

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes with show notes and photos at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

Swilled Dog Hard Cider is a family owned cidery located in the Shenandoah Valley of West Virginia.

Swilled Dog launched in January 2017, and and began selling its wares in March.

This is the 2nd cider company to launch in the past five years in West Virginia, the first being Hawk Nob Appalachian Hard Cider & Mead.

Currently there is not Tasting Room at the cidery, but that shouldn't deter you from visiting the area, which borders Virginia and a plethora of ciders. Swill Dog is approximately 3 hours from Baltimore Maryland and 2 hours from the District of Columbia.

Why try Swill Dog?

• This new startup sent four of their ciders to the Great Lakes International Cider & Perry competition and each cider received a medal.

Current list of their Ciders

Bunny Slope - hopped cider "Our Bunny Slope 6.0%

Carmel Apple - semi-sweet cider 6.0%

Walk the Dog - semi dry cider 6.0%

Seasonal Ciders

Island Vibe - pineapple apple cider 6.0%

WV Scrumpy - made with locally foraged apples 6.9%

Apple Bottom 6.5%

Granny Gold 6.0%

Coming Soon: Pumpkin Patch

Says Brad Glover of Swill Dog Hard Cider, "We want to make cider that is approachable to everybody, the more palates you can hit with your cider, the better off we will all be as people get interested in your cider. And they will ask what else do you have."

Contact: Swilled Dog Hard Cider

website: www.swilleddog.com

telephone: 304-358-0604

Twitter: @SwilledDog

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swilleddog/

Mentions in this chat

Michelle Sikes is the artist behind the label for Swilled Dog

Ask for the following 8 #CiderGoingUP Campaign cider supporters - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Ciderville.

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg
9. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia

Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio and where ever you love to listen to podcasts.

Follow on twitter @ciderchat

If you missed part I of this chat (episode 90) with Eve's Cidery, you'll want to go back and listen as we tour the orchard with Autumn Stoscheck and Ezra Sherman and talk about where their ciders begin.

In part II of this chat, we move down to the ciderhouse to talk about:

• The champagne method used for cider making
• What it takes to run a small cidery
• Autumn's tips for home cidermakers.

Autumn Stoscheck and Ezra Sherman, founders of Eve's Cidery, in their orchard in Van Etten, New York. Their orchard-first philosophy has helped establish Eve's as one of North America's leading producers of fine still cider.

What is Disgorement and How it works with Cider

Removing the closure of a bottle, the pressure that has built up in the bottle pushes out the yeast that has settled at the top, but it also pushes out some cider.

Disgorgement is often regarded as an art. The art is in timing of the turning upright of the bottle with the removal of the closure so that, as Ezra explains, the pressure can do its job removing the yeast, but gravity can act to keep the cider in the bottle. Obviously, the goal is to waste as little cider as possible and it takes practice to master this.

Thankfully, there is a video to show exactly how this is done to accompany Ezra's explanation.

https://youtu.be/kaSz8GH_jTs?si=LwCNHSXmvcIxrfAP

Autumn's analysis of the cider industry and the value of a bottle of cider produced using their methods.

Cider makers aren't doing it for the money, that's for sure. That point is often lost on the consumer who might balk at a $15-$20 bottle of cider. The equivalent methods used in winemaking in the production of high quality wines of place would fetch many times the price just by virtue of the fact that wine culture and the market is older and more developed.

Bottles of Albee Hill, Eve's Cidery's acclaimed still cider. Named after a local road and orchard site, the cider showcases the structure, balance, and complexity possible when exceptional apples take center stage.

Cider Making Tips

The cidermaking tips shared towards the end of this episode are really valuable and go beyond basic issues of making cider. It highlights the dynamic nature of cider microbiology and the techniques that can be used to maximize your cidermaking success. Some of them are:

• Monitor your primary for off flavors and aromas
• Aerate the must if you smell sulfur compounds
• Once primary is finished, immediately chill the cider to limit microbial activity
• Maturing cider on the lees (if they're clean), stirring the lees acts as an antioxidant
• Drink it! Don't wait around for it to develop off flavors unless you think you have achieved microbiological stability in the bottle. Some things that help this happen is having very low levels of nutrients in the must, high acidity, low to no residual sugar, and higher alcohol content.

Bâtonnage defined is simply stirring the lees periodically. This technique can be used in cidermaking and is done after the initial vigorous fermentation is complete.

The lees is brown slurry that settles to the bottom of carboy, stainless steel tanks or barrels. It is comprised of dead yeast cells and heavy particles that were initially floating in the solution.

There are two different types of lees

Gross Lees - the first drop of heavy precipitants that float to the bottom.

Fine Lees - the slurry that can form on the bottom of your carboy after the first racking.

If you leave the lees on the bottom of your cidermaking vessels there is a risk of the lees consuming all the oxygen and causing hydrogen sulfide to form as the cider goes through the process of reduction. (Yes, lees consumes oxygen). The result can leave an off smell such as rotten eggs.

Contact Eve's Cidery

• Website: https://www.evescidery.com/

telephone: 607-229-0230

Special Thanks to guest host Alex Kroh

Guest Podcaster and cidermaker, Alex Kroh, bring us into the orchard at Eve's Cidery. This episode 90 is Part 1 of a two-part show with the makers at this New York State cidery! Find Part 2 when it goes live next week on episode 91.

Pulling up to Eve's Cidery in the small town of Van Etten, NY, you would be forgiven for thinking your GPS is broken. There's no indication you're in the right place unless you happen to peer in through the barn door to spot some inconspicuous ferment ers back beyond the wooden apple bins. I don't know what I was expecting. Perhaps because of the reputation Eve's Cidery has for producing some of the finest ciders in the country, I thought their operation would be more… built up, perhaps. After spending a generous four hours touring through the orchard and ciderhouse, I realized that the humble infrastructure that supports Eve's is secondary, or even inconsequential compared to the place, the apples and the people.

I see, now, that this is a reflection of the values and aspirations of Autumn Stoschek, co-founder of Eve's cidery, and Ezra Sherman, a lawyer in his previous life, who would both rather spend all of their time growing apples and making cider than tending to the various other aspects of running a business. The ciderhouse is just enough to support that. For instance, there's no tasting room at Eve's. When we got the chance to taste through some of their amazing ciders, we sat on wooden crates on the concrete barn floor. Later I would learn from Autumn that the entire operation grew organically from year to year through the hard work and grit that must accompany any agricultural and small-business endeavor. "There was no million dollar investment." In fact, the "seed money" to start Eve's came from her saved tip money from waitressing.

There were other forces at work, too. A formative experience working at an idyllic organic Vermont farm at the age of 15, and later a job with James Cummins, co-founder of Eve's and son of famous rootstock breeder Dr. Jim Cummins, and finally an article about Steve Wood's cider apples (Farnum Hill Ciders and Poverty Lane Orchards, Episodes 32 and 33) in Fruit Growers News all convened in the life of 21 year old Autumn and compelled her to drive to Poverty Lane Orchards in New Hampshire to see it all for herself.

It was a risky move, dropping in on Steve Woods a busy orchardist and cidermaker, but one gets the feeling that he was more impressed than anything. He subsequently tasted Autumn through his catalog of ciders and sent her home with scionwood from his own trees. She grafted that budwood onto trees at James' Littletree orchard and the next year planted more grafted trees on her father's land before she had land of her own. Then began the life-long journey of learning to grow apples specifically for making cider.

Growing great fruit is the key to making great cider, and this is clearly the focus at Eve's Albee Hill orchard, which we toured during our chat. There's a way to do it that maximizes the juice qualities that contribute to flavor and complexity, and it tends to fly in the face of "conventional" modern apple growing. Instead, it turns out that these methods have a lot more in common with organic growing methods. Cider fruit doesn't have the cosmetic standards that dessert fruit does and there's an opportunity for cider apple growers to align their practices with a more ecologically responsible way growing.

So how do you create the conditions that maximize the apple's potential for making great cider? Briefly:

• Create or utilize mineralized soils and maximize mineral accessibility to the tree's root system through the use of deep-rooted companion crops, healthy soil microbes and mycorrhizal fungi (and don't spray chemicals in the orchard that will kill these)
• Encourage a healthy, functioning tree immune system that will produce secondary plant compounds, the phytochemicals that contribute to flavor, aroma, mouthfeel, etc… The trees need some pest and disease pressure, enough to keep the immune system active, not so much that the tree is stressed (again, fewer chemicals to spray)
• Don't over-irrigate - less water in the apple means a higher concentration of sugar, tannin and other phytochemicals

Growing cider apples this way lends itself well to an experience of terroir in the glass, too. Of course, the cidermaking techniques employed are just as important. If you have too much residual sugar or cover up subtle flavors with additives or faults, you won't likely get a hint of what terroir is contributing. In Part II (episode 91) of our chat, we discuss cidermaking techniques that transform great apples into great cider at Eve's Cidery.

Eve's Cidery special August 2017 deal for Cider Chat listeners - free shipping on orders of Eve's Cider!

Mentioned in Part I:

Steve Wood, Farnum Hill Ciders and Poverty Lane Orchards - http://www.povertylaneorchards.com/

Finger Lakes Fruit Geeks:

Garrett Miller and Melissa Madden of Finger Lakes Cider House/Kite and String Cider/Good Life Farm - www.fingerlakesciderhouse.com

Eric Shatt Redbyrd Orchard Cider - https://redbyrdorchardcider.com/

Mike Biltonen, Know Your Roots Consulting - http://knowyouroots.com/

Contact Eve's Cidery

website: https://www.evescidery.com/

telephone: 607-229-0230

address:

308 Beckhorn Hollow Rd

Van Etten, NY 14889

Ask for the following 8 #CiderGoingUP Campaign supporters - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Ciderville.

1. Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14
2. Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35
3. Oliver's Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29
4. Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60
5. The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California
6. Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56
7. Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75.
8. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg.

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