Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

This week on the CBJ Podcast, Scott Rennak sits down with Mike Palmer and Mitch Eadens, co-owners of The Knot gym and Cascade Specialty flooring, to talk all about the grind and unexpected twists that can accompany entrepreneurship in the climbing industry.

Before they were gym owners, Mike Palmer was a self-described “climbing hobo” living out of his truck and running early internet-marketing side hustles, and Mitch Eadens was running Palomino Pool Hall and The Backyard, two Gainesville, Florida institutions he built from a pool hall's leftover tables at age 21. Fifteen years after climbing together in college, the two reconnected to take on the shuttered, structurally condemned Gainesville Rock Gym—a building with a mysterious foundation failure (rumored to be a sinkhole; actually decades of decaying organic fill from an old town dump).

What followed was a five-and-a-half-year odyssey: chemical grouting and demolition, a loan that fell apart over an unrelated IRS document, a pandemic-timed construction start and, finally, an opening day. In their conversation, Mike and Mitch walk through what that process had actually cost—in time, money and lessons learned—and how it shaped The Knot's approach to community, staff pay and the member experience. They also cover how that same hard-fought experience led them into a new venture, acquiring Cascade Specialty, where they now consult climbing gym owners around the country through the kinds of problems they once faced.

Thank you Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Walltopia, Approach and Essential for your support!

And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The Impact Driver Podcast has featured routesetters who are also gym directors, competition chiefs, nonprofit founders and industry veterans. This episode features its own host. After more than three years of putting guests in the hot seat, Holly Chen finally sat down in it herself, getting interviewed by Head Routesetter of the Spot Max Donovan.

Chen works a dual career of both routesetter and writer/journalist. She sets at the Spot Climbing Gyms in Colorado, where she was among the founding setters of Death Moth, a competition set by and for women, nonbinary and gender nonconforming climbers. As a journalist, she reports on the intersection between adventure sports, health, culture and technology. Her bylines have appeared in Alpinist Magazine, Climbing, the Himalayan Journal, Desire Lines Collective and Climbing Business Journal. Chen’s writing has also been shortlisted by the International Sports Press Association.

In this episode, Chen talks about pattern recognition, compositional decision making, the ceiling of the routesetting industry, and what it actually takes to stick around in a profession that gives you plenty of reasons to leave.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rungne, Cascade Speciality, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Most climbing gyms have youth climbers, whether they’re a part of recreational clubs, elite climbing teams, or hanging around with their parents. Most setters will set for youth climbers one way or another. What happens when a coach turned routesetter decides to merge the two professions? What can one reveal about the other?

On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Cate Beebe—a Bend, Oregon-based routesetter and coach—about what happens when setting and coaching are practiced as a shared profession.

Cate came to climbing from a gym in Burlington, Vermont, before moving west in 2022 to set at Bend Rock Gym and coach for Bend Endurance Academy. She holds a USAC Level 3 certification and has set across QEs, regionals and divisionals, with a focus almost entirely on youth competition setting. She coaches athletes ranging from elementary schoolers to the Oregon State University collegiate climbing team, and she has built her philosophy around a simple conviction: that sport should be a place where kids feel powerful, heard and accepted.

In this episode, Cate and Holly get into what it looks like to wear two hats at once, why children are not small forerunners, and what setters might be missing by not spending more time on the ground.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

All photos below are courtesy of Cate Beebe.

Theresa Morris has practically spent her life on the rock, ever since she started as a kid climbing the Flatirons above Boulder with her uncle before climbing gyms existed. That early love of climbing followed her into a 30-year teaching career at Cherry Creek School District, where she built outdoor education programs, and that work eventually led her to found what would become the American Scholastic Climbing League.

In this episode, Theresa walks through the ASCL's journey from a three-kid experiment at a single gym to a nonprofit spanning multiple states. She unpacks the operational realities behind running a scholastic league—insurance, membership fees, regional structures, and what it actually takes to start a new region from the ground up. Theresa and Scott dig into how the league serves as both an on-ramp for recreational climbers and a feeder system for more competitive athletes, and why she believes climbing offers something increasingly rare for kids: an in-person, phone-free community built around personal growth rather than just winning.

Thank you Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association and Kilter Grips for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Routesetters spend years developing an instinct for what works and what doesn’t. Today’s guest of The Impact Driver Podcast has developed a framework to explain why it works.

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Salt Lake City-based routesetter and Momentum Climbing Director of Setting Kenny Benson about what it actually means to set with intention. Kenny explains routesetting through five distinct lenses and how they can transform the way a setter approaches their craft.

Kenny has been setting for nearly fourteen years, starting in Houston before working his way through North Carolina and the Bay Area before ultimately landing at Momentum, where he has spent the last nine years. He holds a USAC Level 4 certification and has become one of the more prominent voices in paraclimbing setting, having set at multiple Para Nationals and Para World Cups.

Outside the gym, he is a devoted music listener, a former skateboarder, and an occasional painter.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In the climbing industry, we talk a lot about diversifying setting teams. Less often do we talk about what it actually takes to lead one with humility and empathy. On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holy Chen chats with Altana Elings-Haynie (she/they)—Assistant Routesetting Director at Movement Philadelphia—about team dynamics, leadership, and what it really means to build a setting program that supports the people in it.

Altana has been climbing most of her life, starting outside in the Gunks before finding her way into gyms as a teenager. She has been setting commercially for six years across Chicago and Philadelphia. Altana currently holds a USAC Level 2 certification, has set for over 10 championship events, and has international setting experience in Norway.

She is looking forward to chiefing the upcoming Midwest Mayhem competition.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

All photos below are by Avery Shandelman (@aves.eyes).

Alice Kao is the CEO, co-founder and driving force behind Sender One, a Southern California climbing gym chain, which she has led over 13 years from a single location in Santa Ana to six gyms—with more on the way. Her path to the climbing industry was anything but conventional: A first-generation immigrant who interned at Lehman Brothers, worked in international toy sales, and discovered climbing while navigating heartbreak in London, Alice launched Sender One from savings, SBA loans, and checks from family and friends—eventually bringing on a marquee investor in pro climber Chris Sharma. She has since become a respected voice in the broader climbing business community, championing women's leadership through her involvement at CWA, and serving on the USA Climbing board of directors before a principled exit.

In this conversation with Scott Rennak, Alice opens up about what it really took to build Sender One—the years of not paying herself, the leap from side hustle to full-time commitment, and the management mistakes she had to unlearn. She also discusses an innovative funding model—a partnership with an impact investment firm to purchase her LAX flagship location—as well as her complicated but ultimately collegial departure from the USA Climbing board. With the 2028 Olympics arriving in LA and her gym sitting eight minutes from the competition venue, she's having more fun running the business than ever before.

Thank you Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, and Rock Gym Pro for your support!

What does it really mean to push an industry forward without losing sight of the people climbing on your walls? On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen invited Rylan Marshall-Meistrich (he/him) into the studio to hear his answer.

Rylan has been climbing since 2004 and setting since 2005, starting out at ROCK’n & JAM’n (now The Spot Thornton), one of Colorado's earliest climbing gyms. He then worked at Planet Granite in San Francisco and a stint in Tahoe before returning to Colorado in 2017 as head setter at Movement Boulder. Now, Rylan is Movement’s Colorado Director of Setting.

With nearly two decades of setting experience, Rylan has set at nearly every discipline of USA Climbing nationals and holds a USAC Level 5 certification. Outside the gym, he runs a small recording studio in his basement and has been playing music since middle school—a side of him that shows up more in his setting philosophy than you might expect.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association, and Kilter. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak interviews Jason Haas, co-founder of G1 Climbing + Fitness. Jason shares his extensive journey in climbing, from his early days on Michigan sandstone and dirtbagging out of a Saturn to climbing on nearly every continent. He reflects on his work as a prolific first ascensionist with over 700 routes, authoring 12 guidebooks, contributing to the early development of the Boulder Climbing Community nonprofit, and replacing aging bolts across Colorado in partnership with organizations like the American Safe Climbing Association.

Jason discusses balancing a 15-year teaching career alongside his climbing pursuits, as well, and how that experience shaped his perspective as a gym owner. He dives into the challenges of launching G1, including navigating multiple failed locations, zoning hurdles, and ultimately opening just one week before the COVID-19 shutdown. The conversation also explores Jason’s role in developing the Climb Pass to foster collaboration across the Colorado Front Range, his views on auto belays, gym-to-outdoors stewardship, and his grit-first philosophy on building both a business and a life in climbing.

Thank you Cascade Specialty, Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Essential and Approach for your support!

Today’s episode of the Impact Driver Podcast welcomes Zoey Grinstead (she/they), Los Angeles-based routesetter and Queer Crush founder, to the recording studio.

In a sport that prides itself on counter-cultural roots and community values, the gap between that identity and lived reality for many climbers is still very much worth talking about. The question of who belongs in routesetting—and who feels like they don’t—has arguably never been more urgent. Zoey brings a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on identity, community, and creative expression in routesetting to this week’s conversation, as she and Holly Chen discuss all these topics as well as tips for fostering inclusion.

Zoey is a routesetter at Touchstone Climbing in Los Angeles, where she has been part of the team for nearly 15 years, starting as a belay staff member before finding her way to the setting closet. With over a decade of setting experience, Zoe has worked in commercial and competition settings alike, including notable events like Death Moth in 2026 and multiple Women Up competitions. She holds a USAC Level 2 certification and is a former president of Queer Crush, a nonprofit dedicated to holding space for the queer community within climbing. Beyond the gym, Zoe is currently a student.

If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.

The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Trango and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.