Welcome back to the Climbing Business Journal podcast. Today, host John Burgman chats with Josh Haynes. Josh first made waves in the industry as an elite-level climber, crushing top-shelf grades like V14s, 514b's, 514c's. But he also worked as a routesetter, which he talks about in this episode, and he had various staff roles at several different gyms. Most recently, he was hired as the new manager of Uplift Climbing in Shoreline, Washington. John and Josh talk about what Josh has gathered from those myriad experiences and how he plans to apply his insights to the managerial role at Uplift. A lot of Josh's wisdom about climbing gym management can be applied to communication at any staff level and also in any tier of the industry, not just managerial and not just at climbing gyms. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Josh Haynes!

Thank you OnSite for your support!

Today host Holly Chen chats with Ally Cruz. Ally is a Trango Grassroots Athlete and a USAC Level 3 Routesetter with a decade of climbing experience. Her routesetting career began at her university's climbing wall and quickly graduated to a commercial setting job at Edgeworks Climbing and Fitness in Seattle, Washington. From there, she bounced to Utah, back to Edgeworks, and eventually settled in her current position as Assistant Headsetter at the Seattle Bouldering Project Poplar gym. She has set and chiefed for many USAC-sanctioned comps and most recently set for the Vail Citizens event and helped with the Vail NACS as well. Ally has also set for notable affinity comps, such as Crux Fest and Impact. Outside of climbing, Ally is a well-rounded outdoorswoman; she loves mountain biking and surfing.

In today’s episode, Holly and Ally take a nuanced look at tokenization. They discuss the signs that someone is being tokenized, the unseen harms of tokenization, and how it can pigeonhole setters into roles that limit their progression and professional development. Ally is a real trooper as she and Holly dive into a vulnerable topic about how tokenization can lead minorities to perceiving other minorities as competition, rather than support. But they do turn the topic around to the bright side and discuss tangible tips that setters, headsetters and chief routesetters can employ to make sure tokenization does not happen on their teams. And if you’re wondering what tokenization has to do with Vans shoes, be sure to listen to the full episode below.

Thank you Trango and EP Climbing for your support!

Today's guest is the founder and CEO of OnSite, Francis Larose. OnSite is based in Montreal, Quebec, and made history this past summer when it became likely the first North America-based wall manufacturer to complete a commercial climbing gym project in Europe. OnSite making the leap from the North American market to the European market is the reverse of what typically happens; much more common has been European builders pursuing gym projects in North America. That accomplishment for OnSite is a focal point of today’s episode, but Francis and host John Burgman cover a lot of other ground too, including Francis’s prior work in the video game industry, OnSite’s urban boulders, and advice for other North American brands looking to go global.

Thank you OnSite for your support!

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen meets with Annabelle Spingler. Annabelle has been climbing and working in climbing gyms since she was 17. She started as a birthday party belayer and coach but has always been intrigued by routesetting. So, when the headsetter accidentally stripped too much of the gym for a competition, she asked if she could set a few boulders to fill in the space, and that's how her routesetting journey began. Annabelle also loves setting for competitions, having set for two NACS competitions, Jackalope and other events, and she is currently a USAC L3 routesetter.

In their chat today, Annabelle and Holly dissect an age-old concept: aesthetics versus function. To start, Annabelle defines aesthetics a little differently. They then talk about how function in a competition might be hard to nail down just by looking at results on paper; they bounce some ideas around on how to introduce advanced comp movement to a newer audience (Annabelle calls it spoon feeding); and they discuss what aesthetics means in a gym with tens of thousands of dollars to spend on macros and fiberglass versus a gym without those funds. Holly and Annabelle also chat about whether movement is finite or whether routesetters can “discover new movement.” And Annabelle lists some ways to help routesetters focus on aesthetics by giving them “zones.”

On today's episode of the CBJ Podcast, host John Burgman and guest Andrew Potter chat about gym startups, software startups, market analysis and much more in between. Andrew is the founder of the RoKC climbing gyms as well as the founder of the software company Approach. In starting both a gym and a gym management technology company, he's had a fascinating journey as an entrepreneur in the climbing industry. He’s also gained experience and insights on how to get a business idea off the ground, how to stay tenacious in turning an idea into a reality, and how to keep up with changing business trends. There’s business wisdom packed throughout this episode—all anchored by Andrew's belief in seeing a need in a market (or in an entire industry) and figuring out a way to create something that meets that need.

Thank you OnSite for your support!

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen interviews Andy Nelson. Andy has been climbing since 1998, and he became the first paid routesetter at Vertical Endeavors in Minnesota around the mid 2000s. In the routesetting arena, he’s done it all, from commercial setting and running a setting crew to comps all the way up to the divisional level. He worked for Nicros Volumes for a while and then, in his words, “went rogue” and “started shaping for everybody and their brother.” Andy has also seen every part of the hold manufacturing process, from being on the ground in a factory while pouring holds to design and branding work. Now, Andy owns and operates Method Grips.

Andy and Holly start by diving into his memories of the good old days—or maybe the dark ages, some might say; a time when routesetters were paid by route and members did not have the luxury of choosing between gyms. They also talked about how Andy has witnessed the industry change over the years, some of the shifts that have allowed setters to do their job more safely and sustainably, and the potential of more oversight from government agencies in the future. Holly and Andy debated about whether routesetting is an art, and they got into some of the nitty-gritty details of holds, shaping materials, and the “evolutionary arms race” between routesetters and hold shapers.

Thank you TRUBLUE and Strati Climbing for your support!

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host John Burgman meets with Climbing Roots owner Lindsay Runne. Climbing Roots' grand opening date is still a little up in the air, but the gym is getting ready to open its doors. During their conversation, John and Lindsay discuss some of the logistics of opening a new gym, what the whole process has been like for Lindsay, and what has gone into getting a gym ready to open. They also dive into Lindsay's decision to offer 24-hour access at Climbing Roots, an amenity that a number of other gyms have considered offering or are offering. Lindsay's insights can help other gym owners and managers get some clarity on the idea, or maybe just expand the conversation about 24-hour gym access.

Thank you OnSite for your support!

Today The Impact Driver host Holly Chen meets with Claire Gordon, a former competitive youth athlete turned coach and gym owner. Claire has a bachelor's degree in psychology with an emphasis on development psychology, and her coaching spans from coast to coast; from First Ascent in Chicago to Planet Granite Portland (now Movement), ABC Kids Climbing in Boulder, and finally starting her own independent team, PinkPoint Training in 2023. At PinkPoint, Claire does everything from coaching to administration to sponsorships, and, of course, routesetting. If asked what her proudest climbing accomplishments are, Claire will say it's her kids. Her athletes have gone to youth nationals, youth worlds, and are shaped into lifelong lovers of the sport. In the summer of 2024, Claire achieved a lifelong dream of opening her own climbing gym and began The Campus Climbing in North Boulder, due to open in early 2025.

In this conversation, Claire and Holly talk about routesetting for a targeted, specific audience: elite youth athletes. They also talk about the unique structure of independent youth teams, what comp climbing really is, and how unpredictable it can be for climbers and coaches during comp day. They get into the weeds about coaching movement techniques and handling emotional pressure. And with Claire's extensive experience coaching with commercial gyms, they cover how to translate her tailored routesetting and coaching skills to commercial gyms. Last but not least, they talk about the old school routesetting mindset of forcing movement and how that can be a disservice to not just youth athletes, but the community at large.

We hope you enjoy this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast!

Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman speaks with Hailey Caissie. Hailey is the Programs Manager at The Crag in Tennessee, and she is also the author of 101 Climbing Games and Activities. So, for anyone who struggles to think of games to play in youth programs or even adult programs, this book may be an interesting resource. It’s a tool that could be helpful to coaches, parents, youth athletes, managers, and simply anyone who climbs. John and Hailey discuss the writing process a bit and how the book came to be, and Hailey shares several games covered in her book, from Blind Climb to Tug of War.

Thank you OnSite for your support!

On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Blake Green. Blake is the head setter at High Point Climbing and Fitness in Birmingham, Alabama. A veteran of the craft with over a decade of routesetting experience under his belt, Blake is a USAC Level 4 routesetter and has set for everything from qualifier to national-level USAC youth competitions. In his spare time, he loves to read and develop routes in his home of the American Southeast.

Blake studied philosophy for both his undergraduate and master's degrees, so he brings a novel perspective to routesetting, his passion for which is conspicuous. Blake and Holly look at routesetting and climbing culture through the lens of social theory, behavioral economics, and how one defines success as a routesetter. They discuss several books in today's episode, with Blake outlining the main concepts covered. The pair also talked about different kinds of learning environments, the “10,000-Hour Rule,” and the adaptation of social theory to diverse routesetting crews. Blake talks about the mistakes he made over the years and how they shaped his perception going forward. And they get into the weeds on specific moves, competitions, and the limits of the USAC system. We hope you enjoy this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast!

Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support!