Copywriters Podcast

We’re back from last week with Joshua Lee Henry, who shared the first five of his 10 Commandments of Compelling Offers. As you may remember, they were great.

To refresh your memory, Joshua is a high-powered copywriter and copy chief. His first appearance on Copywriters Podcast was a few months ago, when he gave us a great interview on putting together compelling leads.

And, like I said earlier, today, he’s back with part two of The 10 Commandments of Compelling Offers. It’s not surprising that Joshua would be sharing his own copywriting version of the 10 Commandments, since 12 years ago, Joshua was a pastor for a megachurch with more than 5,000 members. It was at that time he began is copywriting career, writing fundraising letters for victims of the 2010 earthquake in Haiti.

Fast forward to 2018, when Joshua started freelancing and wrote for big names including Jay Abraham, Brian Tracy and the Zig Ziglar corporation.

Like a lot of high-performing copywriters, Joshua moved under the umbrella of Agora, where he has written promotions that have made millions. These days, he is copy chief for Money & Markets, an imprint of Agora’s Banyan Hill company.

Now before we get to part 2 of the 10 Commandments, allow me to share with you this Prime Directive:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

1. 6. Take Away

a. Makes prospects qualify themselves. Which is a stronger sale and better customer.

b. Reenforces prospects buying decision.

c. Reduces refunds and cancels.

d. Play hard to get. Don’t be desperate/needy.

e. People want what they can’t have.

f. Example from entrepreneur coaching program: “If it’s going to be tough to scrounge together $5k…OR you can’t imagine investing that much in anything, no matter how much more precious time and additional income it gives you…Then chances are this program is not for you. Likewise, if you have any doubts that we can deliver the goods…No hard feelings, just don’t apply.”

g. Example: “10X Fortunes is exclusive and aggressive by design. This service is ONLY for people interested in making an extreme fortune, fast. And have the guts to go after a new 1,000% winner, every month this year.”

2. 7. Risk Reversal

a. Shows skin in the game.

b. Carries the burden of proof.

c. Different than a satisfaction guarantee.

d. Try before you buy offers.

e. Bill my later offers.

f. Example from options service: “Test Drive Wednesday Windfalls Options Service for the next 30 days for only $1. Then, at the end of the month, if you’re happy with the gains you’ve made and want to continue...Do nothing and we’ll automatically upgrade you to official membership at the normal annual price.”

g. Example from investing service: “When we make our first 1,000% winner, I’ll PAY for your second year’s membership”

h. Example from online marketer: “If it doesn’t work, I’ll pay you $200.”

3. 8. Guarantee/Warranty

a. Satisfaction, quality or performance based.

b. Questions asked and no questions asked.

c. 100% Money-back? There are other options (i.e., different service/product, offering a second year, discount on another item, gift card, etc.) But money-back is perceived as the safest offer.

d. Longer guarantee is better.

e. Make it conditional, upon a customer behavior.

f. People know they’re going to cancel when they order. Most everyone else will forget to cancel unless there’s a big problem.

g. Example: Real estate marketing biz that required agents to submit their marketing materials printed on their stationary before eligible for the refund.

h. Example: Have to have completed a certain amount of modules in an online course.

i. Example: Must attend all online course sessions over a period of time to be eligible for a refund.

j. Example from investing service: “If we don’t make at least 12 triple-digit winners this year, I’ll pay for your second’ years’ membership”

k. Example from Patriot Health Alliance: “Give Patriot Power Greens a fair and honest try for at least 30 days. If, after trying a full canister, you don’t feel like you have more energy, clearer thinking, better digestion, a healthier heart and less pain when you move around then I want you to simply send back any unused canisters along with a simple 1-page note giving me your honest feedback of the product. Just a simple handwritten note will do. Just write your honest feedback on a sheet of paper and put it in the box along with your order when you return it. We’re putting all of the risk on our shoulders and backing your order with a never-before-seen 200% money back guarantee.”

l.

4. 9. Deadline

a. People need to be pushed to act sometimes.

b. Make it a real deadline with real consequences.

c. Give them a waiting list if they missed out.

d. Build up the FOMO for next time.

e. After a few days reopen and send them an email about an available opening.

f. Example from real estate investing biz: “But FAIR WARNING — after these 100 spots are filled this special edition of the Investor’s Toolkit will be removed from the market.”

5. 10. CTA

a. Tell people exactly what you want them to do.

b. Make the buy button or CTA absolutely clear.

c. Repeat the CTA several times.

d. Have only 1 CTA per marketing piece.

e. Make it a two-step ad. I.e. download this report, then a CTA for booking a consultation or “strategy session”

f. If needed, switch up the CTA at later stages in the funnel.

g. Example: Ability to call in to tele-sales at the lifetime upsell.

h. Example: Giving a phone number to call

Joshua is one of the instructors in the World of Financial Copywriting program. You can get more info about it here:

https://bit.ly/3CaB9S8

And if you want to reach Joshua personally, his email is:

joshualeehenry @ activatemyadvertising . com

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Our returning champion is Joshua Lee Henry, the high-powered copywriter and copy chief. You might remember him from a few months ago when he gave a tremendous interview on putting together compelling leads.

Today, he’s back with The 10 Commandments of Compelling Offers. Not surprising, since 12 years ago, Joshua was a pastor for a megachurch with more than 5,000 members. It was at that time he began is copywriting career, writing fundraising letters for victims of the 2010 earthquake in Haiti.

Fast forward to 2018, when Joshua started freelancing and wrote for big names including Jay Abraham, Brian Tracy and the Zig Ziglar corporation.

Like a lot of high-performing copywriters, Joshua moved under the umbrella of Agora, where he has written promotions that have made millions. These days, he is copy chief for Money & Markets, an imprint of Agora’s Banyan Hill company.

The last time he was here, after he gave us great information about leads, I asked Joshua if he had more that he’d like to share. He has a very busy schedule, but he managed to squeeze in some time for us, to talk about compelling offers.

He started by giving us some important pinpointing information about how detailed and elaborate your offer can be. But he emphasized that the more of these commandments you combine, the stronger your offer is.

The first commandment covers what you get, but it’s way beyond a laundry list of the components that make up the package of what you’re selling. Joshua shared some techniques to strengthen the “WYG” (what you get).

Second, third and fourth commandments go into great (and valuable!) detail about explaining the price. Putting $(number) in your copy just ain’t gonna cut it, as you undoubtedly know if you’ve been writing long-form direct response copy for specialized offers. Joshua gave some powerful tips about presenting price justification, payment terms and special discounts.

He also gave strong examples of price-related copy from successful offers across the web.

And the fifth command is a detailed breakdown of bonuses and premiums—what they are and how they work. Some new ideas as well as some important established truths it always helps to be reminded of.

Joshua went into so much detail that we only had time for five of the 10 commandments on today’s show. He promised to come back next week to give us the remaining five.

Joshua is one of the instructors in the World of Financial Copywriting program. You can get more info about it here:

https://bit.ly/3CaB9S8

And if you want to reach Joshua personally, his email is:

joshualeehenry(at)activatemyadvertising(dot)com

Download.

If you’ve ever wondered what a metaphor is and how to use metaphors in your copy, today you will get your questions answered. Because we have a guest who I consider to be the reigning expert on the question, Anne Miller.

She’s author of “The Tall Lady With The Iceberg.” For my money, it is the best book ever written on how to use metaphors to sell, to explain, and to win people over. Anne understands and teaches this information better than anyone else I’ve ever seen.

She’s also a coach, speaker and seminar leader. Her huge client list ranges from Columbia University and The Wall Street Journal to Revlon, Citibank and Yahoo. As well as clients in Australia, South America, Europe and Asia. Dozens and dozens of household names and major niche organizations.

For us in the copywriting world, Anne’s expertise in creating and using metaphors is what excites me the most. Many copywriters and business owners use metaphors, but not too many people do it all that well. And that’s about to change today.

Anne covers a lot of ground on today’s show. Here’s what I ask her:

1. What is a metaphor, anyway?

2. Why are metaphors so important?

3. You have a very handy four-step metaphor workout. Could you share it with us?

4. What are the main ways we can use metaphors in communication?

5. Could we talk about a few different kinds of metaphors, with examples

6. How about which mistakes you should avoid when using metaphors?

You can get in touch with Anne on her website:

https://www.annemiller.com

Here’s the link to her book, The Tall Lady With The Iceberg:

https://www.amazon.com/Tall-Lady-Iceberg-Metaphor-Metaphorically/dp/0976279444

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Today we’re back with Peter Visser, who has developed an impressive business with partners. It’s an online education business that teaches people how to trade in the stock and Forex markets.

What I found so interesting, and I think you will find it interesting too, is his marketing approach.

While it seems typical at first glance, as you start to look into it a little further, it’s not typical at all.

In last week’s show, we talked about how he sells to a webinar with ads he says are “‘zero-claim,’ so they always pass compliance.”

The ads go to a webinar that has no sales pitch, as Peter describes it. The webinars have generated six figures a month for the last year.

From there, he has a copy strategy using one-to-one emails, and a particular way of writing copy that doesn’t risk the wrath of the regulators.

Today we’ll talk about the second part of his funnel -- the pitch his company uses to qualify leads, and his overall approach for writing highly persuasive copy without making any claims.

Peter tells us about a one-on-one email pitch. “It allows us to qualify hundreds of inquiries per day for our $5,000 program.”

It’s a three-step process that “primes the prospect for a high-ticket sale before they reach the closer.” As a result, he says, this keeps his close rate above 40%.

Also, we take an in-depth look at copy without claims! Whether you end up using this approach yourself or not, it’s certainly something you would like to find out more about.

Peter and his partners also offer a program for traders to start their own online education businesses, not reselling his courses but based on their own experience and expertise. To find out more, go to:

https://cashwithcourses.com/yes

To contact Peter, use this email address:

peter at cashwithcourses dot com

Download.

Today our guest is Peter Visser, who has developed an impressive business with partners. It’s an online education business that teaches people how to trade in the stock and Forex markets.

What I found so interesting, and I think you will find it interesting too, is his marketing approach.

While it seems typical at first glance, as you start to look into it a little further, it’s not typical at all.

He sells to a webinar with ads he says are “‘zero-claim,’ so they always pass compliance.”

The ads go to a webinar that has no sales pitch, as Peter describes it. The webinars have generated six figures a month for the last year.

From there, he has a copy strategy using one-to-one emails, and a particular way of writing copy that doesn’t risk the wrath of the regulators.

Today we’ll talk about the lead generation process, and the pitch-free webinars themselves.

Peter has generously agreed to come back next week to tell us in detail about how he gets customers, once they’ve watched the webinar.

Here is what he talked about today:

- The ad strategy that got his company 50,000 registrants and 7,500 attendees from Google ads over 12 months. As I mentioned, Peter says, “These are ‘zero-claim’ ads, so they always pass compliance.”

Peter got a return on ad spend of 3 to 4 times—even when show-up rate was very low (which is a typical problem with webinars).

- The “Pitchless Event”: How his company put on 20 webinars in 12 months that generated six figures apiece, without a sales pitch during the webinar.

An important point for follow-up sales that were initiated after the webinars: Peter got more than 100 five-star reviews on Trustpilot.

I’ve never heard of anyone doing an online education business quite this way, so I was very eager to have Peter come on and break this down for us.

Peter and his partners also offer a program for traders to start their own online education businesses, not reselling his courses but based on their own experience and expertise. To find out more, go to:

https://cashwithcourses.com/yes

To contact Peter, use this email address:

peter at cashwithcourses dot com

Download.

We’re back with top copywriter Mike Pavlish for part two of his in-depth information on video sales letters that sell like crazy.

And Mike should know. He’s written dozens of VSLs that have brought in 10 million dollars or more. In fact, over the last 30 years, Mike’s copy has brought in three-quarters of a billion dollars in sales. And his work is still bringing in the big bucks today.

I want to share with you something from last week, because it’s well worth repeating.

High-powered entrepreneur Alvin Huang says this:

“We’ve tested Mike Pavlish’s copywriting agains 5 other A-list copywriters, including many of the top names in the world for sales letters and VSLs. Mike’s copy has won every single time. For us, Mike Pavlish has been the Steph Curry of copywriters.”

But Mike may be an even better teacher than Steph. I know I learned a lot from him last week and have even used some of it for a VSL between then and today.

To review, last week Mike gave us some great tips on doing research for a winning VSL, told us about the four types of VSLs and how to use each one, and described the complete package of what you need to make your lead capture and hold your prospect’s attention.

Today, he gets into the nitty-gritty about what makes an effective opening story.

Mike is the only person I’ve ever heard talk about TWO kinds of mechanisms, and why you should include both in your VSL script. In addition to keeping your prospects on the edge of their seat, this two-mechanism approach will lock-in their decision to buy from you, and lock-out everyone and everything else. If, that is, you use it the way Mike describes it!

Mike also reveals some secrets about your product and offer… AND… he shares some unique (and highly valuable ideas) about creating urgency and adding to your Average Order Value.

Which is finished up by a separate but also tremendously worthwhile set of tips on upsells.

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Our returning champion is superstar copywriter Mike Pavlish, and even though this is Copywriters Podcast, I’m not exaggerating when I say “superstar.” Mike’s been at it for over 30 years, and his copy has sold three-quarters of a billion dollars in products and services.

Because Mike is going to give us some closely-held secrets about VSLs that sell like crazy, you ought to hear what one of his clients says about Mike. I happen to know this client, because he flew over from Singapore nearly 10 years ago to attend a seminar I had organized.

His name is Alvin Huang and listen to what he has to say:

“We’ve tested Mike Pavlish’s copywriting agains 5 other A-list copywriters, including many of the top names in the world for sales letters and VSLs. Mike’s copy has won every single time. For us, Mike Pavlish has been the Steph Curry of copywriters.”

You know, there’s only one way to get a testimonial like that, and that way is to earn it with results. So we’ve talked Mike into sharing some ideas with us about how to get those results with a VSL.

Mike has written more than 150 VSLs (long-form, which he’ll explain in a minute) and dozens of them have brought in $10 million or more in sales.

On today’s show, Mike told us about the kind of research you should do to get your “raw materials” for a winning VSL, and what it is that makes VSLs perform so well in an online environment where there are so many other things competing for your prospect’s attention.

He also described the four types of VSLs (long-form, 30-60 minutes, is one of the four) and explained how to use each one, depending on your desired result.

And Mike introduced a new idea I’ve never heard before: How to use proof early in your script to tease benefits you will reveal later.

He also revealed what is the one type of story that you should use in a VSL, and… he went into great depth on what you should include in your lead, and what are the other key elements of a winning VSL. All in all, a detail-rich, highly valuable interview for Copywriters Podcast.

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For a lot of us, the hardest part of writing copy is getting started. Today we’re going to dive into some very handy tips from Old Master John Caples.

He is, of course, famous for his ad which has the headline, “They Laughed When I Sat Down at the Piano… but When I Began To Play… ”

Caples was what we would call today a data-driven marketer. He made his choices based on test results as much as anything else. He was highly successful and author of some of the best books every written on direct response marketing.

In “Tested Advertising Methods,” he has an entire chapter devoted to seven proven ways to start your copy. Imagine how much easier it will be to write if you have some sure-fire ways to get started. That’s what today’s show is about.

Now, to come up with these seven techniques, John Caples didn’t brainstorm a bunch of ways to start copy. He didn’t even draw on his massive, successful experience as a copywriter and a copy chief for six of them.

No, for this chapter, he did something better. He found the best source of leads where the words HAD to work. And that was the Reader’s Digest.

Now you may not be familiar with Reader’s Digest, but if you are as old as I am, you probably are. If for no other reason that you remember copies of the magazine lying around the waiting room of the dentist’s office.

Reader’s Digest was the largest-circulation magazine in the United States until 2009. Millions and millions of people would read these articles each month. And so the editors had to make sure that every word counted. They couldn’t take risks or allow flights of fancy.

Every article needed to make sense to every reader. From the first word, and all the way through. When you’ve got millions of readers, you’ve got to be a simple, straightforward and yet as compelling as humanly possible.

It was against that backdrop that Caples began his research. He thought: If editors use something to start articles in the Reader’s Digest over and over again, it’s not by accident. They have to KNOW that it works.

So he started cataloguing and counting the different ways the articles started. He figured, if it will work in editorial, it will also work in advertising. I think he was absolutely right, and it was a brilliant way to show copywriters proven ways to start their copy.

He came up with six ways that were repeated over and over, and added a seventh one. All of this is from Chapter 9 of “Tested Advertising Methods.” I’m going to summarize what he found and then we’ll bring it into the 21st Century.

And, along the way, give you a little toolkit to get your copy started faster and with more confidence.

Link to get “Tested Advertising Methods”:

https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Methods-Prentice-Business-Classics/dp/0130957011

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How would you like to DOUBLE your conversions after prospect opt-in for a lead magnet?

I mean… who wouldn’t like that, right?

Now one thing that keeps us, as direct marketers, from reaching new heights, is our ingrown conservatism. Which is normally a good thing. When something works, we stick to it. Other people in marketing and advertising often seem to compete to see how much money they can waste by being “creative” and trying out whatever comes to mind in the moment.

Meanwhile, direct marketers see their job as making money for their clients. So we tend to stay focused on what has proven to work in the past.

And most of the time, it’s a good idea.

But sometimes, sticking too narrowly to the tried-and-true can box us in. We have to balance our data-driven decisions with breakthrough innovations that could still conceivably work within the bounds of direct marketing.

Enter Jason Strachan. He’s our returning champion today. Jason is a bold copywriter and marketer who’s willing to jump out of the box to try something new and see if it works better.

Of course he’s not the only one in our business who takes these kind of risks. But he is one of the few I’ve ever talked to who has taken a controversial, yet proven new idea, adapted it, and gotten outstanding results.

So Jason didn’t try something entirely out of the blue. He did use a proven concept. The difference is, the concept Jason was about to try had been used in a different context, and some very experienced people doubted it would work the way Jason wanted to use it.

But Jason stuck with it, and it worked — big time! For his promotions so far, his adaptation of the idea led to a 40% conversion rate on an upsell, and, more important for todays show, more than DOUBLING the conversion after an opt-in from a lead magnet.

On today’s show, Jason walked us through the typical optin sequence, and explained the thinking behind it. The old way has worked very well for a lot of marketers, and it’s worth taking a few minutes to understand where we’re starting.

Then, Jason explained how he learned about this new approach, and the outsize results he got on a couple of campaigns — even though experienced direct marketers were very skeptical about the idea ahead of time when Jason ran it by them.

This is a little-known strategy well worth learning about and considering using for your own promotions.

How to get in touch with Jason and get his book:

advertisingalchemy at gmail dot com

www.10magicwords.com/book

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Most everyone accepts that stories are THE best way to grab and hold someone’s attention. But does that mean ANY story you use in your copy will help you with your sales?

A lot of people seem to have never asked or considered that question. Today we dig into it.

You see, Joseph Campbell’s 1949 book “The Hero with a Thousand Faces” eventually launched a revolution in storytelling. Especially among professional storytellers. Campbell’s idea of The Hero’s Journey has become accepted truth as THE way to tell a story for many people.

Is that really true in copy?

We take a careful look at this question today. And we come up with some answers so you don’t make the mistake I’ve seen so many copywriters make with their stories.

I want to say up-front that I am not against Hero’s Journey stories. I have spent a large part of my life studying them and an even larger part of my life reading, watching and enjoying them.

My main point today is that you should use them as they were intended to be used, and where they work. I like hand-held power drills, but I don’t think you should use them to open a can of chili.

It’s interesting, for example, that a typical movie is a two-hour hero’s journey. It starts with an ordinary person on an ordinary day, who gets thrown into a long and complicated challenge that changes the person’s life. Tests, discoveries, friends and foes abound. As you watch the story, or read the story, at more than one point you say, “How is he going to get out of this one?” or “Is it even possible she can make it through this problem?”

And while, for example, the studios MAKE two-hour stories in the form of a hero’s journey, they don’t SELL them that way. Studios sell movies with little movies of 30 seconds to two minutes called “trailers.” A trailer has high points from the movie, called “moments,” and one overriding question or theme to get you intrigued enough to buy a ticket or pay for a view on your TV and devote two hours of your life to watching the movie.

That’s a hint right there on one major difference between dramatic stories and sales stories.

Now, this is not to say that there are no similarities between the two types of stories.

One thing they have in common is that they cause emotional responses in the viewer or reader. Sometimes huge ones. All good stories have an emotional impact of some kind.

Another thing they have in common is that they are about people, not things or ideas. Usually, one main person. Of course there are other people in a story, too. But usually it’s about one person. Sometimes a tight-nit group of people, or a pair of people -- like a buddy movie.

But, that said, there are a lot more differences than similarities. We to talk about five of the key differences today.

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