Copywriters Podcast

Imagine a day in the future when you can’t use lead magnets or other opt-in marketing methods to get new customers. Imagine that you can’t use outbound telemarketing anymore either. Now imagine that this has nothing to do with government regulation or anything like that… but one of the warmest, friendliest companies on the planet … or so you thought… has made your job impossible.

Well, that day is coming – and it might be as soon as September 17th. That company is Apple. And Meron Baraket, the Sherlock Holmes of marketing, has done some detective work to discover all this… and he’s got PROOF!

We start with how Meron discovered this… including a little-known patent that spells really bad news for online marketers.

Things could start to get bad Sept. 1 of this year… and will only get worse from there.

The key phrase is “disposable email addresses.” Apple’s patent and plans for its next version of the operating system for iPhones really changes the game. Meron explains why.

There’s also a real threat against businesses that use telemarketing coming soon.

Meron gives details on this episode about that, too.

He’s also going to do a one-time free online mastermind to get into solutions, with some guest experts. To sign up, go to:

TheDayAfterEmail dot com

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We start with some very powerful copy from the great Bill Bonner, which is written in a way most copy is not written. For the purposes of today’s show, we’ll call this “writing copy in scenes.”

Writing this way makes the copy come across as very immediate and real… and sets up the reader in a very good way for what comes next.

In today’s show, we talk about:

- What writing in scenes means, and why it’s so much more powerful than simply writing with either facts, benefits, or the type of stories most copy contains

- The big difference between writing in “narrative” style, and writing in scenes

- A couple of examples from outside copywriting that make “scenes” crystal-clear

- How writing in scenes works, and why it works

- A simple way to get started writing your copy in scenes

- Some additional tips from another renowned writing teacher

- The four parts of your copy where writing in scenes will make the biggest difference in influence, and conversions!


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How do you make Facebook actually work? That’s becoming an increasingly urgent question for copywriters and marketers across all niches.

We have one answer for you today, with our special guest, Sam Carlson.

He’s an online traffic and conversion guy, with a specialization in local business marketing. His agency is called 25th West. Sam and his team use digital marketing strategies to grow private medical practices.

Facebook likes what they did so much that they featured 25th West on their Facebook Business™ page as a case study. We’re going to talk about that today, and a whole lot more.

Sam is also Co-Host of The Next Level Facebook Ads Podcast, and I highly recommend it.

We asked Sam these questions:

1. Writing ads and creating campaigns on Facebook, seems to me, like being forced to write while wearing handcuffs, and with a special pen that runs out of ink when you try to write certain words.

That is, there are restrictions, that for most ad writers — especially direct-response copywriters — run counter to the way we are used to writing ads.

Yet you have found a way to make it work. So much so that you won an award for your campaign from Facebook! We’ll get to the campaign in a minute. But first, please talk to us about the right mindset for winning on Facebook — I don’t mean awards necessarily, I just mean having a winning campaign and getting profitable business. And could you also talk about techniques you use and techniques you avoid using?

2. OK, let’s go over the numbers on your campaign.

3. So, how did go about getting these results?

4. What did you learn from this campaign, and how can Copywriters Podcast viewers and listeners put some of your learnings to work for themselves… especially on Facebook?

5. I know you have a podcast yourself… you and Phil interviewed me on it! Could you tell our listeners about that, and anything else you have to offer in the way of products, coaching, training, or other info stuff?

Sam's Case Study


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From Kenny Werner’s book: Effortless Mastery

It’s for jazz musicians, but one thing he wrote applies very much to brainstorming ideas for copy and marketing campaigns:

In a chapter called “Fear-Based Composing,” he writes,

“The most anxious moment for a composer is starting at a blank piece of paper.”

Before I go on, I’d say, that’s true for copywriters too, isn’t it?

He continues,

“It is much easier to edit material than it is to create from nothing. Putting notes on paper without attachment is a great start.”

I’ll comment here that “without attachment” means, without caring if it’s good or not. Let me continue now,

“Once you have created ‘some stuff,’ you can begin to edit. Through the process of variation, you can create more music or improve upon what you’ve got. However, any sense of attachment to the work prevents you from seeing the possibilities.

“For example, whatever notes you write can be developed by varying the order, the octave, the transposition, and so on. If you do this without any emotional attachment, without the need to create anything worthwhile (the same old trap), you are likely to come up with more attractive sets of notes. Putting some of them together, you can create longer ideas from the embryo of your original random choices.”

OK. Now, I’m going to add a couple of things for copywriting and marketing. My experience and belief is that this works best when you already have a goal in mind: What you want your marketing to do. And when you know who your customer is, and you know a good bit about what you’re selling.

But that said, you can do a lot of really powerful stuff following the idea that I just read to you. I imagine if you’ve never tried anything like this, you might find the whole notion scary, or think that it’s complete bullshit.

But it’s not. It’s proven. And you can find a way to make it work for you. We’ll talk about it today.

First, the big argument - structure and formula versus brainstorming and risking

Second, the importance of minimizing risk

Third, Innovating to solve problems, rather than to express yourself

Fourth, how to get there


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This is especially for business owners. About half of my mentoring clients are business owners.

Now when I meet business owners who don’t already have some copywriting skills and experiences, they end up falling into one of three camps:

1. Those who know they want to learn copy

2. Those who are thinking about learning copy but aren’t sure that it’s a good idea, and

3. Those who have felt some pressure to learn copy but really don’t want to.

I don’t think one-size-fits-all when it comes to business owners learning to write copy. So I want to look at both sides of the question today, and even offer some tips that all business owners can use to make more money for their business.

We cover:

The 3 Reasons Certain Kinds of Business Owners Definitely SHOULD learn to write copy, and why this will help you with your business. Even in ways you’ve never thought of before.

The 3 Reasons Other Kinds of Business Owners Probably SHOULD NOT learn to write copy, and how it could screw things up for you if do.

If You’re A Business Owner Who Wants To Learn Copywriting, Some Things You Should Do (Including One Thing Copywriters Probably Wouldn’t Do)

Some Tips For All Business Owners On How To Use Copy To Make More Money In Your Business


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A client of mine made an interesting discovery. When he wrote short emails, he got mediocre click-through. When he wrote longer emails, he got a higher click-through. But when he condensed the longer emails down to the length of the original short emails, he got the highest click-through rate of all.

Why is that?

We discussed this and the answer we came up with is what this podcast is about. In short, intensity. It raises response rates consistently for my client in split tests to a high six-figures list. And I think everyone who deals with copy needs to know about this.

What we cover in today’s podcast:

1. What intensity in copy is; why it’s important; and when it’s especially necessary to have intensity in your copy

2. The discovery, and the easiest way to infuse your copy with intensity

3. Another thing to do to maximize the intensity of your copy

4. Urgency, and not just in your close

5. The ultimate driver for


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OK. Everything you’ve heard about not using humor in copy, be prepared to reconsider all of it. Because of our guest today, Jon Buchan.

A few years ago, Jon freely admits, “I was desperate for sales after my word of mouth work dried up.”

He continues:

“I got hellishly drunk one night and wrote a completely absurd cold email.

“I was still tipsy the next morning and decided it was still a good idea to send it to pretty senior Marketing Directors at big brands.

“To my astonishment, it worked. I got the most amazing complimentary responses and requests for calls/meetings.

Here is the favorite response Jon received: "My colleague forwarded me your spam email and we would like to meet you to discuss opportunities."

From his crazy drunk email, Jon has met with senior decision makers at RedBull, Pepsi, Symantec, Hewlett-Packard, HSBC, Barclays and countless other global brands, exciting start-ups and regular ol’ small and medium businesses.

Since then, he’s used the same style to get senior editors at large publications to respond to me and publish his clients' content. He says he’s also used it to help people get as many job interviews as they want - and to meet people he really looks up to.

Today he’s going to share his story on the copywriters podcast. First, and I really don’t think there’s anything funny about this at all:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

So Jon, welcome and thanks for joining us.

1. First, could you tell us a little about your business, and the full story about the drunken email.

2. What has happened as a result? You’ve gotten into the funny-copy-training business, right?

3. The old-school rule is no humor in marketing IF you want to get sales results. You seem to be turning this on your head. Let’s talk about that.

4. Could you give us some tips for what to do and what not to do for our listeners if they want to try your approach?

5. You have a Facebook group and a product. Want to tell our listeners about these things, and how they can take advantage of these opportunities?

Charm Offensive Website
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Our guest today, Ken McCarthy, has been at the forefront of Internet marketing and copywriting from the start. To give you just one in example, way back in 1994, he sponsored a conference about making the Internet a place where you could do business. Before then, it was a business-free zone. His featured speaker was a pioneer of the time, Mark Andreessen, who went on to co-found one of Silicon Valley’s most important Venture Capital firms.

OK. Let’s fast-forward 20 years to 2014. Five years ago. Tony Haile, CEO of Chartbeat, one of the world’s top data analytics firms, wrote this in Time magazine:

In 1994, a former direct mail marketer called Ken McCarthy came up with the clickthrough as the measure of ad performance on the web. From that moment on, the click became the defining action of advertising on the web.

See, it’s one thing to come up with an idea. It’s another thing entirely to be recognized as the guy who came up with it, by a leading industry authority in Time magazine.

As a copywriter or business owner, why is this important to you? Here’s why. Ken’s also a copywriter. A marketer. He’s made a lot of money that way.

And recently he pointed out that there are some key things no one’s been teaching that he’s decided he’s willing to share. With you. On this podcast. Things that, if you put them to use conscientiously, could make you a lot of money.

Ken, thanks for being here. There’s one other thing I want to tell our listeners about themselves before we dive in:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Topics Ken covered on these calls:

• Though Ken never wrote for clients — only for his own business — he claims to have made more money “in a short time than many copywriters make in a long career.”

• Some basics of copy that most people who teach, or talk about copy, gloss over or miss entirely. Ken dug in and shared nitty-gritty stuff that brings in the bucks.

• Ken’s discovery of a hidden treasure trove of John Caples ads (that most people have never seen, to this day)… and what he learned from that.

• And many other gems — the kind of stuff that has earned Ken high respect, both in the “big-box corporate world” of advertising, as well as among the hardest of the hard-core direct marketers

Ken's Website KenMcCarthyDotCom
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Our guest today, Ken McCarthy, has been at the forefront of Internet marketing and copywriting from the start. To give you just one in example, way back in 1994, he sponsored a conference about making the Internet a place where you could do business. Before then, it was a business-free zone. His featured speaker was a pioneer of the time, Mark Andreessen, who went on to co-found one of Silicon Valley’s most important Venture Capital firms.

OK. Let’s fast-forward 20 years to 2014. Five years ago. Tony Haile, CEO of Chartbeat, one of the world’s top data analytics firms, wrote this in Time magazine:

In 1994, a former direct mail marketer called Ken McCarthy came up with the clickthrough as the measure of ad performance on the web. From that moment on, the click became the defining action of advertising on the web.

See, it’s one thing to come up with an idea. It’s another thing entirely to be recognized as the guy who came up with it, by a leading industry authority in Time magazine.

As a copywriter or business owner, why is this important to you? Here’s why. Ken’s also a copywriter. A marketer. He’s made a lot of money that way.

And recently he pointed out that there are some key things no one’s been teaching that he’s decided he’s willing to share. With you. On this podcast. Things that, if you put them to use conscientiously, could make you a lot of money.

Ken, thanks for being here. There’s one other thing I want to tell our listeners about themselves before we dive in:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.

Topics Ken covered on these calls:

• Though Ken never wrote for clients — only for his own business — he claims to have made more money “in a short time than many copywriters make in a long career.”

• Some basics of copy that most people who teach, or talk about copy, gloss over or miss entirely. Ken dug in and shared nitty-gritty stuff that brings in the bucks.

• Ken’s discovery of a hidden treasure trove of John Caples ads (that most people have never seen, to this day)… and what he learned from that.

• And many other gems — the kind of stuff that has earned Ken high respect, both in the “big-box corporate world” of advertising, as well as among the hardest of the hard-core direct marketers.

Ken's Website


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The TV series “Perry Mason” was an important part of my youth. It also turns out the writer who originally created the characters for the show was, for a time, the world’s best-selling author.

With more than 300 million book sales to his name, Earl Stanley Gardner was a real-world expert on how to communicate with large numbers of people in an emotionally compelling way. In today’s show, we extract some secrets from a book that details the years of work, and important discoveries, Gardner made in his never-ending quest to learn how to write the perfect story.

The book is called “Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.” Its authors are Francis L. and Roberta B. Fugate. You can get it on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OQ6XDHQ/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_P9sRCbXJEMSQR

Here’s what we cover in the podcast:

1. Gardner’s carefully refined five-point checklist for the perfect plot

While this checklist is for fiction, there’s a lot in there that will also help copywriters improve their engagement and conversions.

2. Themes and motivations that magnetize readers to your words.

Here’s a list of what we discuss. These are directly from Gardner, via the Fugates’ book:

Themes:

1. Tis sport to see the engineer hoist by his own petard (the villain who overreaches himself)

2. Man in position of power abusing that power and tripped up

3. The old man who is still young

4. Man who champions the underdog

5. Why don’t you speak for yourself, John?

6. The ugly duckling who becomes beautiful

7. Man who renounces reward and is doomed to independent loneliness

8. Downtrodden person suddenly asserting himself

9. The race is not always to the swift

10. Virtue is its own reward

11. There’s many a slip twixt cup and lip

12. Haste makes waste

13. He who hesitates is lost

14. Faint heart never won fair lady

Motivations:

1. Wealth

2. Happy sex companionship

3. Justice

4. Food

5. Happiness of environment

6. Opportunity to get ahead

7. Self-improvement

8. Wisdom . . . knowing more than another man

9. Influence

10. Put the overbearing boss in his place

11. Physical perfection or improvement

12. Domination of environment—mastery of others

13. Triumph of the underdog

One other gem I plucked from this incredible book:

“Don’t give your reader a headache.”

Gardner’s early tries were too thought-provoking for the markets he was writing for, and he got some serious literary smack-downs in rejection letters from his editors (one of whom later went on to work for The New Yorker). Good lesson for copywriters in this.

Shout-out to the great Scottish copywriter Colin Joss for giving me a heads-up about the book we quote from in this show.


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