Create a New Tomorrow

Hi, I am here with Merrick Rosenberg. He is is a keynote speaker and thought leader on personality styles and team development. He co-founded Team Builders Plus in 1991 and Take Flight Learning in 2012. He is the author of The Chameleon and co-author of Taking Flight!

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY MERRICK FOR MORE INFO

https://www.takeflightlearning.com/me...

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learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

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https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

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Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

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CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:07  

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today with me is Merrick Rosenberg. And Merrick is the co founder of team builders plus, which was in 1991. And take flight learning in 2012. He's the author of three books, personality wins the chameleon and taking flight. These are all books about tapping into the power of your personality. So this is where it becomes interesting, because we're going to talk to mark today about personalities, and the ways in which these personalities define the reality that we live in. So he doesn't know that yet. But he does now. So Merrick, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself how you got to forming this system regarding personalities, and how it may differ from some of the other well known personality discovery tools out there. So you're

Merrick Roseberg 1:14  

by back in 91, as you mentioned, I started one of the first team building companies in the country. And it didn't take long to realize that, wow, people just don't get along. And teams are dysfunctional, because of personality, that people just don't understand each other, they don't understand themselves. And, you know, the reality is the most self aware people are the happiest, and they tend to achieve their goals in life, they tend to have happy relationships. And that led me to this exploration of understanding personality styles, and there just are so many tools out there.

Ari Gronich 1:48  

There's all of these different kinds of Tell me how you came out, came about finding this style. Or

Merrick Roseberg 1:57  

if you go back to the early 1900s, and even 1000s of years ago, in the early 1900s, William Marston had put together what he called the disc model, which was di sc. Now, it was fascinating. It was just rang true. But what's what's really cool about that is is it paralleled what had been around for 1000s of years to Greek culture, the ancient Chinese civilization all over the world, people had four style systems, they call them different things. in corporate America, people tend to know them as the disc model di sc. But I just wanted to make it easier. And I was teaching the letters and I found that people weren't remembering them and, and I wanted to write a book about it. I've kept feeling like, I'm going to constantly have to say, the take charge D, and the energetic, enthusiastic I and like, no one's gonna remember that. And then like I said, I wish it was visual and symbolic. And like in a flash of insight in a moment, like this download the idea of linking it to four birds came to me and then I built a whole business around it, because it's just a matter of teaching people about themselves and the birds made it easy.

Ari Gronich 3:04  

Alright, so we're gonna play, we're gonna play a little game. You ready? I'm ready. All right. So I haven't I haven't done this before. I do have a little bit of noise.

So we're gonna play with some of my toys I haven't played with before. And I'm going to name somebody and you're going to name a personality to go with that.

Merrick Roseberg 3:32  

Hopefully, I ready?

Ari Gronich 3:34  

You're reading okay. So we've got Albert Einstein.

Merrick Roseberg 3:38  

So Einstein much more of an owl very logical, very analytical. He's interesting because he had a little bit of a parasite. He was actually kind of a funny funny guy. But But owl primary style for sure. And everybody's not just one you could be a combination of multiple styles.

Ari Gronich 3:52  

Absolutely. Elan musk.

Merrick Roseberg 3:55  

Elon Musk is interesting. He certainly has a lot of Eagle take charge. I want to go where no one has gone before that like James T. Kirk, but he's got a lot of parrot to the I'm gonna send my my car to Mars. I mean, who does that that's a parrot thing to do.

Ari Gronich 4:14  

All right, Bill Gates,

Merrick Roseberg 4:16  

Bill Gates, very much of that owl style, very logical, analytical. I mean, if you think Microsoft is the name micro soft of its detail, when he first started the company, he was creating little mini programs. I mean, so well.

Ari Gronich 4:32  

All right. Gandhi,

Merrick Roseberg 4:34  

Gandhi very much the dove, that caring soft spoken, compassionate style, but he also had some Eagle which is interesting, because he he was very much the that what I call that activist style that picture the dove, we care about people and that Eagle, I'm going to fight for people's rights but not with aggression, but more with that dove patients but we will win which is the eagle so it's kind of a debate. Eagle combination style, very interesting pattern.

Ari Gronich 5:02  

Okay. Martin Luther King,

Merrick Roseberg 5:06  

actually very similar to Gandhi has that Dove Style and the eagle they're very eloquent style because they speak both with compassion and conviction. And so Gandhi, Martin Luther King Obama all shared that style.

Ari Gronich 5:22  

Okay, Muhammad Ali,

Merrick Roseberg 5:24  

Muhammad Ali, you know, you think Muhammad Ali a boxer you think Eagle comes up? But no, he actually had a lot of parrot. He was fun. He was funny, but very compassionate. He had a parrot and a dub style, which is very atypical for what we would stereo stereo typically think of a fighter, people. Everybody has stories of just what a nice caring, compassionate guy he was.

Ari Gronich 5:46  

Interesting. All right. Let's go with Trump. Trump

Merrick Roseberg 5:51  

dove right now definitely not a dove. He is he is the eagle. Kind of all Eagle all the time. Direct, assertive bottom line, take charge confident that is the picture of an eagle it would be Donald Trump.

Ari Gronich 6:07  

Alright, Biden

Merrick Roseberg 6:09  

are getting heightened by politics. Yeah, much more of a parrot and a dove. He always has that big smile, very empathetic and caring. And look, he's made a lot of gaffes throughout his career. He's always done it, that's a parent thing to do. There's a thin filter between thinking and speaking. And parents sometimes say things out loud, and they're like, Oh, no, did I say that out loud. And then he has to walk it back at the parrot thing to do with ease. But he has a lot of depth to very caring, very compassionate.

Unknown Speaker 6:36  

Alright, Bernie, Bernie,

Merrick Roseberg 6:39  

Bernie's got a lot of Eagle. Very just, um, take charge, I'm doing my own thing, I'm gonna be the one independent guy in the whole Senate. I don't even care if you don't agree with me, I'm doing what I want. But he also has a little bit of dove in there. Sometimes he has those moments where he'll you'll see tears forming in his eyes. He's just so passionate about what he cares about.

Ari Gronich 7:01  

Alright, so now that now that we went through this little exercise, right? personality types for that are that are good for people who are leaders. So let's say you want to be a leader, you want to be a follower, you want to be the guy who gets on board. So let's, let's kind of map the personality types that somebody would need if they're starting a movement?

Merrick Roseberg 7:31  

Sure, well, here's, here's the first thing to recognize that there is no, this is the style of a leader, if you want to what I was thinking is you're just activating that potential in you, you're getting yourself to that place where you're the highest version of yourself, accomplishing the absolute most you can accomplish in this life. It doesn't matter what your style is, your style does not determine how successful you will be. But your style absolutely determines how you go about being successful.

Ari Gronich 8:02  

Gotcha. So let's go back to politics a little bit. And it's not going to necessarily apply the way I would think it would apply. But if I was to say, read, write, what personality types might pop up or blue, what personality types might pop up. I believe that it's probably going to be pretty diverse, based on what you just said. So I'm going to ask you that in a little bit different way. What personality types are playing an effect in the noise that's being made currently, because we all hear about the silent majority and the loud minority? So where does that silent majority play in their personality types versus the loud minority? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 8:58  

look, when you there's no doubt that when you have eagles and parrots, they're much more outgoing and boisterous that they don't tend to be in any kind of silent majority. That's true in a staff meeting. You don't if Eagles if you have someone who's an eagle parrot, and they have a concern, do you think they just sit there quietly and don't say anything? No way. But what happens is I think we're seeing the doves and and owls are much more introverted. They're much more reserved. And they're being more energized now to speak. And then just a word, I think we're starting to hear a larger percentage of the population than we usually have heard before, which is often that kind of parrot Eagle, loud boisterous style. We're hearing more from the owls and the dubs than we've ever heard before.

Ari Gronich 9:48  

Yeah, I think I think that's a good note, to leave the audience on. And, as always, I asked, you know, for two to three, maybe four tips, tricks, things that somebody can act upon immediately. I think you just gave one I'm gonna have you repeat it. But yeah, just what are some things that people can do to create their new tomorrow today? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 10:15  

the first piece is going into you got, as I said earlier got to have that level of self awareness recognize your bird style, so you're aren't imposing it on others. I would take a variety of things like amount of information, how much information do you provide the people around you, you provide an owl very different than the amount of information you provide an eagle or a parrot. So start tuning into how much information you're communicating, start tuning into how you're communicating to the people around you. Is it very directly and bluntly like an eagle? Is it softer? Like a dub is more logical? like an owl? Is it energetic, like a parrot? How are you coming across to the people around you? And are you imposing your style on them? So start taking a look at just communication is a great place? How much information you share? How do you share it? And are you treating them how you want to be treated? Or are you treating them how they want to be treated. And if we honor people who are who they are, you create strong relationships, if you honor yourself, and put yourself in a role were in a place where your style strengths can shine, man, you're just going to be able to accomplish anything. But if you are in a in a role, or in a job that you have to constantly do things that are outside of your personality, it's going to be exhausting, you can never be the highest version of yourself when your job exhausts you, every day, find ways to do what is meaningful to you.

Ari Gronich 11:42  

Awesome. And that's a really good reminder for any HR rep CEO, CFO, who's thinking of treating their employees, like their deficit on the balance sheet instead of an asset is you know, if you want them to be an asset for you, treat them the way they need to be treated for their personality. And you'll get more out of them. And so that is, that's awesome. And I really appreciate you being here and all of this information that you've laid down on, on the crowd. So how can somebody get ahold of you, if they want to get ahold of you,

Merrick Roseberg 12:20  

you can go to take flight learning.com. And you can discover just the range of training programs that we have there and you can reach out and on Twitter, it's at merrick. and also on LinkedIn, connect with me and I always try to put a little daily dose of bird wisdom so people can keep learning about the styles.

Ari Gronich 12:42  

Awesome. Awesome. And so I'm imagining that this book take flight is not about being a pilot.

Merrick Roseberg 12:51  

It is not it both taking flight and the chameleon are taking flight is one long fable that allows you to see the birds in action and then the second half of the book is okay. Now how do you apply it in your life? It's kind of like writing a movie. The next book the chameleon was like writing a series in a season of a sitcom has 22 fables like each one's a different episode? Sometimes eagles and parrots sometimes doves analysis, sometimes all four with the all knowing chameleon that teaches you about yourself. And each each one of those fables has a different lesson of how to apply the styles in your life. And so they're fun. You'll see yourself in the stories are these good? Yeah, they're really for adults. But I've had many people say to me that they've sat and they read them with their children. I've had many people say they get the audio book and they just they drive and listen to a fable and then turn it off and then have a whole conversation with the family about how that is playing out within that that family itself so kids will get

Ari Gronich 13:51  

it. Yeah, awesome. So we'll we'll see about being able to get a link or something for an ebook or audio book or whatever we can do for the audience so that they can check you out, check out your book, and, and hopefully, learn a little bit about personalities, help themselves move into a new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world. I am your host, Ari Gronich. This has been a fantastic episode, talking to Merrick about personalities and birds and you know, the birds and the bees with regards to personalities, having this amazing amount of information for both corporations as well as relationships is great. So, thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 14:48  

We would love it if

Ari Gronich 14:48  

you would like review Rate, Comment, Subscribe. Participate in a conversation about this information will will look forward to hearing from you and talking to you. So thank you so much. We'll be with you again next time.

Hi, I am here with Merrick Rosenberg. He is is a keynote speaker and thought leader on personality styles and team development. He co-founded Team Builders Plus in 1991 and Take Flight Learning in 2012. He is the author of The Chameleon and co-author of Taking Flight!

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY MERRICK FOR MORE INFO

https://www.takeflightlearning.com/me...

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:00  

I'm Ari Gronich. And this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today with me is Marrick Rosenberg. And Merrick is the co founder of team builders plus, which was in 1991. And take flight learning in 2012. He's the author of three books, personality wins the chameleon and taking flight. These are all books about tapping into the power of your personality. So this is where it becomes interesting, because we're going to talk to tumeric today about personalities, and the ways in which these personalities define the reality that we live in. So he doesn't know that yet. But he does now. So Merrick, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself how you got to forming this system regarding personalities, and how it may differ from some of the other well known personality discovery tools out there. So

Merrick Roseberg 1:22  

by back in 91, as you mentioned, I started one of the first team building companies in the country. And it didn't take long to realize that, wow, people just don't get along. And teams are dysfunctional, because of personality, that people just don't understand each other, they don't understand themselves. And, you know, the reality is the most self aware people are the happiest, and they tend to achieve their goals in life, they tend to have happy relationships. And that led me to this exploration of understanding personality styles, and they're just for so many tools out there that were using letters and colors was like an alphabet soup. And it was confusing. People just didn't remember it, you'd go back six months later, and they're like, wait, I'm the red, which one's red again, or I'm the this letter that letter, it's like, okay, it's got to be easier. And I taught it like that for a long time. That's how I was taught to teach the styles I worked with, with over 100,000 people teaching personalities, styles, too. And, you know, I go back, and people just weren't remembering it. And that's when the birds flew into my world and just came up with an easier, more visual, tangible way to teach people about themselves. And of course, everybody else in their life, too.

Ari Gronich 2:33  

That's awesome. So, you know, tell me a little bit about the birds and how, how you came about them? Because, you know, again, you like you said, most people I'm a green, I'm a red, I'm a green, red, I'm a yellow blue. Or I'm an inf G or a j FY. And there's all of these different kinds. So tell me how you came out came about finding this style. Or

Merrick Roseberg 3:05  

if you go back to the early 1900s. And even 1000s of years ago, in the early 1900s, William Marston had put together what he called the disc model, which was di sc. Now, it was fascinating. It was just rang true. But what's what's really cool about that is, is it paralleled what had been around for 1000s of years to Greek culture, the ancient Chinese civilization all over the world, people had four style systems, they called them different things. in corporate America, people tend to know them as the disk model di sc. But I just wanted to make it easier. And I was teaching the letters and I found that people weren't remembering them and, and I wanted to write a book about it. And I've kept feeling like, I'm gonna constantly have to say, the take charge D, and the energetic, enthusiastic eye and like, no one's gonna remember that. And then like I said, I wish it was visual and symbolic and like in a flash of insight in a moment, like this download the idea of, of linking it to four birds came to me and then I built a whole business around it, because it's just a matter of teaching people about themselves and the birds made it easy.

Ari Gronich 4:12  

So which bird is which personality? real quick? Yep.

Merrick Roseberg 4:16  

So speed version. I think of an eagle. That's what's called the dominant D style. Eagles are take charge assertive, they are bottom line, results oriented, that power pose you could see almost like that, that superhero. I'm in charge, power pose. Let's make things happen. The eye is what's often referred to as that interactive or influencing style. Parents are social, they're talkative, they're outgoing, everything's all good. Always works out. They're the eternal optimist. They just bring energy and fun. The dove is the supportive, very sensitive s style. dubs are caring and compassionate. symbols of hope and peace and love all throughout the world. They just want everyone to be happy and get along. And owls are that conscientious, but it's the sea style. owls are logical and analytical and thoughtful. We always think of them as wise. But of course, any style can be intelligent. But we attribute that to them because they're so thoughtful and there, they look like they're processing and taking in information. And if they're going to do something, they do it right. So that gives you the four birds that assertive D fun parrot. Caring dove, logical owl.

Ari Gronich 5:35  

Alright, so we're gonna play we're gonna play a little game. You ready?

Merrick Roseberg 5:39  

I'm ready. All right.

Ari Gronich 5:40  

So I haven't I haven't done this before. I do have

Unknown Speaker 5:46  

a little bit of noise.

Ari Gronich 5:53  

So we're gonna play with some of my toys I haven't played with before. And I'm going to name somebody and you're going to name a personality to go with that.

Unknown Speaker 6:03  

Hopefully,

Ari Gronich 6:04  

I'm ready. You're ready. Okay. So we've got Albert Einstein.

Merrick Roseberg 6:09  

So Einstein much more of an owl very logical, very analytical. He's interesting because he had a little bit of a parasite. It was actually kind of a funny, funny guy. But But our primary style for sure. And everybody's not just one you could be a combination of multiple styles.

Ari Gronich 6:23  

Absolutely. Elan musk.

Merrick Roseberg 6:26  

Elon Musk is interesting. He certainly has a lot of Eagle take charge I want to go where no one has gone before that like James T. Kirk, but he's got a lot of parrot to the I'm gonna send my my car to Mars. I mean, who does that that's a parrot thing to do.

Ari Gronich 6:45  

All right, Bill Gates,

Merrick Roseberg 6:47  

Bill Gates, very much of that owl style, very logical, analytical. I mean, if you think Microsoft is the name micro soft of its detail, when you first started the company was creating little mini programs. I mean, so well.

Ari Gronich 7:03  

Alright,

Merrick Roseberg 7:04  

Gandhi, Gandhi very much the dove, that caring soft spoken, compassionate style, but he also had some Eagle which is interesting, because he, he was very much the that what I call that activist style, that picture that dove, we care about people and that Eagle, I'm going to fight for people's rights, but not with aggression, but more with that dove patients but we will win which is the eagle so it's kind of a double Eagle combination style. Very interesting pattern.

Ari Gronich 7:33  

Okay. Martin Luther King,

Merrick Roseberg 7:37  

actually very similar to Gandhi has that Dove Style and the eagle they're very eloquent style because they speak both with compassion and conviction. And so Gandhi, Martin Luther King Obama all shared that style.

Ari Gronich 7:52  

Okay, Muhammad Ali.

Merrick Roseberg 7:54  

Muhammad Ali. You know, you think Muhammad Ali a boxer you think Eagle comes up? But no, he actually had a lot of parrot. He was fun. He was funny, but very compassionate. He had a parrot and a Dove Style, which is very atypical for what we would stereo stereotypically think of a fighter. People. Everybody has stories of just what a nice caring, compassionate guy he was.

Ari Gronich 8:17  

Interesting. All

Merrick Roseberg 8:18  

right. Let's go with Trump. Trump that dove right now definitely not enough. He is. He is the eagle. Kind of all. Eagle all the time. Direct, assertive bottom line, take charge confident that is the picture of an eagle. It would be Donald Trump.

Ari Gronich 8:38  

All right, Biden are getting eaten by politics.

Merrick Roseberg 8:42  

Yeah, much more of a parrot and a dove. He always has that big smile. very empathetic and caring. And look, he's made a lot of gaffes throughout his career. He's always done it. That's a parrot thing to do. There's a thin filter between thinking and speaking. And parents sometimes say things out loud. They're like, Oh, no, can I say that out loud. And then he has to walk it back at the parent thing to do with ease, but he has a lot of love to very caring, very compassionate.

Unknown Speaker 9:07  

Alright, Bernie,

Merrick Roseberg 9:09  

Bernie. Bernie's got a lot of Eagle. Very just, um, take charge. I'm doing my own thing. I'm gonna be the one independent guy in the whole Senate. I don't even care if you don't agree with me. I'm doing what I want. But he also has a little bit of dove in there. Sometimes he has those moments where he'll you'll see tears forming in his eyes. He's just so passionate about what he cares about.

Ari Gronich 9:28  

Yeah, he does have a bit of a, you know, posture of an eagle at this point.

Merrick Roseberg 9:34  

Yeah, he is Eagle but I think he's got a little Duff

Ari Gronich 9:38  

All right, let's see. Buckminster Fuller.

Merrick Roseberg 9:43  

I think a lot of owl kind of very thoughtful, logical, more detailed. Okay.

Ari Gronich 9:52  

Last but not least, let's see here. Madonna

Merrick Roseberg 10:04  

is a great one. You know, I think she she kind of beats to her own drum, which is very much an eagle thing. But I but I think she also has a lot of parrot in there too, that just flamboyant, I'm just gonna put myself out there. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I think it's a combination of eagle and parrot. All right, so do you think what were you think those are accurate as Yes.

Ari Gronich 10:28  

I'm giving you my.

Alright, so now that now that we went through this little exercise, right? personality types, four that are that are good for people who are leaders. So let's say you want to be a leader, you want to be a follower, you want to be the guy who gets on board. So let's, let's kind of map the personality types that somebody would need if they're starting a movement?

Merrick Roseberg 11:05  

Sure, well, here's, here's the first thing to recognize that there is no, this is the style of a leader. If you want to win, I always think of you're just activating that potential in you, you're getting yourself to that place where you're the highest version of yourself, accomplishing the absolute most you can accomplish in this life. It doesn't matter what your style is, your style does not determine how successful you will be. But your style absolutely determines how you go about being successful. So so I'll give you some examples that just kind of staying along this line of what we just did. Richard Branson parrot self made billionaire, Bill Gates out, self made billionaire, Howard Schultz from Starbucks, he is the dove I once heard him say, I want to create a company that my father never got to work at. I mean, it's just that caring, compassionate, dove, self made billionaire Steve Jobs, Eagle, another self made billionaire. Look, this is what you get when you are someone who taps into the power of your personality, and just takes your personality and creates something amazing. And that's what all of them did. So your personality isn't gonna determine how successful you are going to be. But you can bet it determines how you go about it

Ari Gronich 12:22  

is a determine the position that you might take in the company like Bill Gates might take a position based on his personality he made the success may not depend on the personality type, but does the role that you play

Merrick Roseberg 12:41  

for sure. Look, when I meet somebody like Bill Gates, that owl style is overwhelmingly I see them in engineering and finance it. And and that's, that's his world, where somebody like a parrot, like I'll use Richard Branson, he's the marketing guy, his genius is in his marketing. And that's when you go into a marketing department, you go into social media, you go into a PR firm, you find tons of parents. So that's how he drove his success. parrot. sensationalism. It's dramatic, it's big, but it's over the top. And that's how he he put himself out there. So exactly, exactly, you will find certain people will be drawn to certain jobs, because that's what feeds them.

Ari Gronich 13:25  

So if you're hiring, though, if you're if you're looking for looking for team, right? How do you use those roles as your marker for what you're doing? Because I know a lot of people will just hire based on gut versus information. And so

Merrick Roseberg 13:49  

that's right. And the big thing to recognize is that you have to be careful that you just don't hire in your own image. managers do this all the time. You've got an eagle manager there, take charge and assertive. And they think, Hey, I was once in this role that I'm trying to fill. And I know what it takes to be successful. You've got to be assertive and dominant, and you got to stand in your power. And so what do they look for somebody just like that. But maybe there's a dove, who would handle the job very differently, but be equally successful. But you've screened them out because you feel like oh, no, no, I don't want that I know what I need in this job. So the first thing is you have to be careful not to impose your personality on this role, because someone else may do it very well. And we've seen this you could have a salesperson who's a parrot salesperson who's an owl, they're both fantastic, amazing sales, but you can bet they sell differently. And that's okay. And so the other thing that we sometimes need to think about in hiring is, am I filling in a gap in the team? Maybe I don't have any owls on our team, and we make quick decision and quick decisions. No But he says, you know, maybe we should think this through first, maybe we should consider the following have we thought about this, if you had an owl on your team, they would do that. So sometimes you could use hiring as an opportunity to fill in for one of these gaps that they're missing one of the styles, because when you miss one, it's a potential blind spot in your team. So it could be a part of the hiring decision, everything else that you're looking at background experience, all that's important. But I do think style that personality should be a piece of the puzzle. It's one part of it that if you leave it out, sometimes you're missing something significant.

Ari Gronich 15:37  

Gotcha. So let's go back to politics a little bit. And it's not going to necessarily apply the way I would think it would apply. But if I was to say, read, write, what personality types might pop up, or blue, what personality types might pop up, I believe that it's probably going to be pretty diverse, based on what you just said. So I'm going to ask you that in a little bit different way. What personality types are playing an effect in the noise that's being made currently, because we all hear about the silent majority, and the loud minority? So where does that silent majority play in their personality types versus the loud minority? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 16:33  

look, when you there's no doubt that when you have eagles and parrots, they're much more outgoing and boisterous that they don't tend to be in any kind of silent majority. That's true in a staff meeting. If you don't, if Eagles if you have someone who's an eagle parrot, and they have a concern, do you think they just sit there quietly? And don't say anything? No way. But what happens is I think we're seeing the doves and and owls are much more introverted, they're much more reserved. And they're being more energized now to speak, and then just say, we're, I think we're starting to hear a larger percentage of the population than we usually have heard before, which is often that kind of parrot, Eagle, loud, boisterous style. We're hearing more from the owls and the dubs than we've ever heard before.

Unknown Speaker 17:24  

Okay.

Ari Gronich 17:27  

So if we're hearing from the owls, I would assume, right, that the things that we'd be hearing would include with logic and wisdom, and, you know, and thought and foresight, and all those kinds of things. That's what I would think of, if I'm, you know, looking at what, what a

Merrick Roseberg 17:52  

right, but yeah, for sure.

Ari Gronich 17:56  

And yet, I don't really see that kind of introspection and foresight, and so forth, and the things that are being said right now. And not only that, but the doves seem to be getting a little bit of a of an attitude themselves, the people I would normally have thought of, as the compassionate, you know, empathetic kind of, you know, people so they seem seem to be, you know, getting their beaks nice and sharpened for for the pecking so

Merrick Roseberg 18:26  

well, it's because if you think first of all, you think about, think about dubs, I, I've always described them from like a, how they get upset perspective. It's like, they don't say anything, that they don't say anything, then they don't say anything. And then one day, it's just like, boom, and it explodes. And so I think we're seeing a level of frustration, that that we've never seen before just coming out. And, and I think, to your point, I think that what we're seeing what we're also seeing is, there's a lot of Eagle energy out there in that, which doesn't have a lot of detail behind it. But says, you know, this, there's a this is a bad situation and follow me, I will fix it. You know, I alone will fix what's going on. And then I think there's just a lot of faith from the owls that there's, there's, yeah, you know, we're not hearing a lot of detail, but it's there. It's behind the scenes, you know, there is information out there, I don't really need it, which is kind of interesting, because owls usually do need it. They usually want all the details. But I do think you're right. I think that a lot of the owls are just kind of saying I don't need all the detail. But I believe that if things are being said, I'm just going to trust it.

Ari Gronich 19:40  

Yeah, it just seems so unlike the personality type of, of, of an owl. And so I'm wondering if the owl has, has mutated, I'm using a gentle word, instead of procreated has mutated into a different personality type at this at this moment, or if, if we're just seeing the alternative or the, you know, the mirror image side of, of these all of these personalities.

Merrick Roseberg 20:13  

Yeah, I think, you know, I think what's happened is that when when you overuse your strengths, they become your weakness. And so when you dial up the owl too much, they actually don't become so detail oriented. They, they get to a place of frustration, and they say, you know what, I don't even need the detail anymore. I've just had it. And so when you dial it up that far, I think it's a problem. Also, there's been, you know, there's a, it become a fundamental mistrust in the data that's out there, that that idea that you can't trust the news, you can't trust the data. So you know what I'm not even going to trust, I'm going to forget about having to need the detail, I'm just going to trust the person who shares that there's a problem. And they've kind of let go of the need for the data because I can't trust the source of where it's coming from.

Ari Gronich 21:02  

Now we go on to that familiar territory of if we can't trust the media, and the things that are being told to us, where do we go for information? If we rely on information to be our deciding factor in what we actually do?

Merrick Roseberg 21:23  

I think we have to get back to a space where, where the data and the information that's being shared is truly accurate. And this is true from across the board on polit. from politicians, you know, the problem is that we don't really care as a nation if politicians aren't truthful. And that may sound like a very bold statement. But the reality is, look, we elected a president whose name was tricky dick. We connect elected another one whose name was slick, Willie, we didn't even care. And, you know, in our personal relationships, if, if I said to you, okay, here's this person, they're, they're dating somebody, and I measured it, I've been tracking everything that person says, 80% of the time, they are completely truthful, but 20% of the time, they don't tell the truth at all. You would say, I'm not gonna marry someone who lies 20% of the time. But if that were a politician, we'd go. That's pretty good. 80% of the time, they're honest.

Unknown Speaker 22:22  

All right,

Merrick Roseberg 22:23  

I'll take that I could live with 80%. And so I think in our personal relationships, we've we've come not to trust that we would say it this way, integrity, reliability, honesty is really important. But in our politicians, we we may not, we just come, we've come not to trust them. And we're like, yeah, they're honest, sometimes they're not honest other time, so just not even going to worry about it. And so, so that's the challenge is that we've gotten to a space where we don't necessarily trust them. And yet we're like, wow, I'll still vote for them.

Ari Gronich 22:56  

Yeah, it's really fascinating to me, because, to me, they're, they're, you know, there's always going to be the people who are spoofing the leaders, the people who are in charge, but now it's the leader spoofing themselves. And and so it seems like the world has kind of turned backwards on itself. And we're in what's that world called in Superman where everything is the opposite

Unknown Speaker 23:28  

of Bizarro world

Ari Gronich 23:30  

or something? Seems like we've just entered into this Bizarro world and, and I'm curious is whether any of the personalities even make sense anymore? Or if you know, they've all ruffled their feathers? Yeah, you

Merrick Roseberg 23:48  

know, what happens is when we overuse our strengths, it really becomes an issue. It's there's, there's an expression expression, which I love, which is any virtue carried to an extreme can become a crime, you take something positive, and you dial up the energy, you put it in the red zone, and it's a problem. And and, you know, this is, this is what we've seen with a lot of politicians, you take Eagle, and you dial it up too far, and assertiveness becomes aggressive. Confidence becomes arrogance, or even narcissism. And you take the parrot and dial it up too much, and it's just big energy, but there's nothing behind it. There's no plans or strategies and so we we have an issue where a lot of politicians are dialing up their personalities so much, that they're now turning off a lot of people. And and, you know, it's a it's a problem when we can't believe the people that are leading our nation and we just don't believe in them. And we need to just get back to that space. And we get back to that space when they are no longer overusing their personalities. They're using them at a healthy level. And you can look at that person and say, You know what, I don't agree with them. But they're trying their best. You're not going to agree with everything. You know, maybe my party didn't Take the White House. But, you know, I don't trust distrust their integrity. I philosophically disagree. But that's okay, I'm not going to always have a person that I completely aligned with. But I believe they're going to keep us safe and do their best to, you know, to hold America's greatest interests at heart. And we just got to get back to that space.

Ari Gronich 25:21  

Right. So the question becomes, how do we, you know, how do we alter our personality as a nation to be less polarizing, and be more inclusive of other mindsets, meaning, you know, where we began as a melting pot, and it now seems as though you can't have any sort of nuanced thinking without being labeled on one side or another side. And for anybody who's in the middle, who, you know, I believe in these conservative principles, and I believe in these liberal principles, and I have this nuanced sense of reasoning. And nuance has left the building along with critical thinking and common sense. That's no longer common anymore.

Merrick Roseberg 26:14  

Yeah, I think that what we have to get back to, and this is true in our personal relationships, and it's true in politics, and it's true at work, that we have to replace judgment with acceptance, that what we're doing is we're judging people, there's a, you know, this concept that if you can let go of judgment, then it gets replaced with acceptance and valuing. And we do this to ourselves, we judge ourselves, and then we can't step into our own power, we judge other people, and then they can't be, you know, we see them in a light that they can't, we don't even think they're honest with us, because, well, they're not like me, they disagree with me, we have to get back to a space where we accept people for who they are. And and, and not question their intentions and their motives all the time.

Ari Gronich 26:58  

Awesome. Now, it's just a matter of how do we do that? what's the what's what's the tip, or the trick to to doing that?

Merrick Roseberg 27:06  

You know, I always talk about using the birds and using the styles is that when you have an eagle, and they're very direct, except that's them for who they are. That's who they're that's who they are. That's it's not, they're not doing something against you. And that's the big key here is recognizing that, that if an eagle is being abrasive, it's not really about you. You know, if a dove can be smothering that, yes, it's love, but it's like here food, take it, bring it home with you here. I'll put more on your plate. No, no, no, no, you take it. It's like oh, my gosh, drives me crazy, actually has nothing to do with you. It's that it's really all about them. It's love, but it's dialed up too much. If you have an owl, and they're just providing you with too much details, too much information, don't take it as Don't you trust me, don't you believe in we've been able to do that think for myself has nothing to do with you. And this is true for all four sauce is that that don't take things personally understand that the way they're talking actually has nothing to do with you. It's just them being who they are. And letting go of that judgment and recognize that it's really not about you, it's really about them.

Ari Gronich 28:15  

Nice. So you've done this kind of work with top, you know, fortune 100 companies. So give me kind of the inside wrap? Well, let's say you're in this meeting, you know, you and I are 10 people because I'm a Gemini, so I can be that. And so, you know, you have a meeting that you're directing, so to speak. So give me kind of the inside scoop, what would you say to the corporation, the heads of the corporation?

Merrick Roseberg 28:54  

So for me, when I talk with especially senior managers, it's an or any manager could be a supervisor, it's are you creating an environment in which you would thrive? Or are you creating an environment in which your people will thrive? In other words, imagine you have you're an you're an owl leader, and as an owl, is it likely that you create a very structured process driven standard operating procedures, a lot of tracking and documentation and, and measuring data? What do you think if you're an owl?

Ari Gronich 29:26  

Yeah, probably sure.

Merrick Roseberg 29:27  

But now you're managing an entire team of parrots. How do you how do the parents feel? If you're one of those parents? How does that feel?

Ari Gronich 29:35  

You're ruffling my feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 29:38  

Yeah, don't you trust me? Don't you believe in me? So what it's all about is are you creating an environment for your people? Are you really just creating an environment for you? And if I flip that around, to be fair to the owls, I'm a parent manager. And I create a very free flowing, here's your goals. Here's your here's what I'm looking for. Here's what I need it, go for it. I believe in you and a motivating and empowering. How does an owl feel in that culture?

Ari Gronich 30:07  

Not enough ruffled feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 30:09  

Yeah. In fact, like, what are you looking for? What What do you want me to do? How do you want me to do it? What do you how do you want me to hand this in? Can you give me a sense of your process in the details, I'm not even sure what I'm doing? Well, why is the parent doing that the intention is to motivate and empower, just like the our managers intention is to set you up for success. But leaders have to realize that if you want your people to be the highest versions of themselves, and to succeed in a way that they are engaged, and they love what they do, but they also produce a lot, you have to treat them the way they want to be treated. You can't impose yourself on them, you can't create culture for you, you have to create culture for them. And so becoming that highest version of ourselves is, is very powerful as a leader, because then it ripples out into impacting a lot of people so that each of my people can become the highest version of themselves. And let's face it, everybody, if I create an environment in which my people will thrive, there's a lot less drama that I have to deal with on a daily basis, because they feel comfortable. And so, you know, it's creating culture, but creating culture for them, not you.

Ari Gronich 31:24  

Interesting. So as the leader, who's like, let's say, I'm a, I'm an owl, and I need to have those metrics met. My team is a bunch of parrots and doves, not very organized, right? But I still obviously need that stuff in order for me to do my job. So how does the to match? How do you get somebody who's a parent to do our work? And if not, then how does that work? get done. So it's not you just being the one doing all the work all the time? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 32:04  

the first thing I would say is, you always want to match people up to the role. If you want people to feel comfortable, when you're working in your style, it feeds you, when you're working out of your style. It's exhausting. So first thing is I would say, can you create and structure these roles so that each person gets to display the behaviors they enjoy, and they feel most comfortable. And once you've done that, everybody's going to be a lot happier. Now, look, obviously, there's going to be aspects of everybody's job, which you go, Oh, I just hate doing that. The parrot who has to track and record everything they do for sales, you know, they're reporting their sales data and documenting and submitting it is the part they hate the most. And that's why they often have an account manager, who's an owl who does all of that for them. So they can get on the phone and go out at meetings and go to networking events. But I would often ask our managers, when they say me, I need all this information. I always look at them. I go, do you? Did? Do you need all information? Like, let's take a look at what you really use out of everything you're asking for? What data do you actually use that has meaning and value that value for you that you can act on? And a lot of times, they've just been tracking data, because that's just what they've always done. So I would say to that, how can you maybe meet halfway so that you're the parent doesn't have to do so much tracking so much documentation and find a middle ground? I had this with my my CFO in my own organization. as a as a CEO, I should know what's happening in the company, I need to understand my numbers, I need to understand the data. But I'm a parent, Eagle Eye, just too much of that. It's just exhausting for me. And when we started, we created these these monthly financial meetings to tap in and check in. Okay, what happened that month? She brought like two hours worth of data. And I'm like, okay, like, we need to pare this down. Because Yeah, I don't have two hours worth of attention span. So and now we literally got down to about a half hour's worth of data that is the most important critical fundamental data I need to know. And she feels that I need to know. Now, there's definitely data there where I go, do I need that? Yeah, not sure. But she thinks I need to have it. Okay, we'll keep it we met somewhere in the middle. And you might think, wait, you went from two hours to a half hour? Didn't that swing a lot? Yeah. But there was a tremendous amount of data like client by client data, which I didn't need, right. And so so that's what I'm talking about is you find a way to meet in the middle, that you can be yourself but you also do what needs to get done.

Ari Gronich 34:35  

How does that work with in the family dynamic?

Merrick Roseberg 34:41  

So same thing, right? I mean, you have you've got a lot of times parents who impose their personality on their, on their children. As an example. Remember watching this father, these kids, the kids where I live, my house is like in a court so there's like some put up a basketball net, so the kids can play basketball without really being the path of traffic. And, and I remember one day one of the kids, he's such a strong dove. I mean, he plays the flute, he's just he's like, I just want to just play my flute, I just I don't I love that I don't, I don't really like getting out there playing basketball, everybody, you know, I'd rather sit on the side and just talk to one other person, or get on a bike with one person, we ride around the neighborhood and just talk. And as fathers, the strong Eagle, and his father's, like, get in there fight for the ball. And you know, the problem with that is, the message that the Father is saying is you need to be more like an eagle if you want to be successful in this world. In other words, you need to be more like me. But the underlying message is who you are. It's not okay. And so parents are often set send bad messages to their children, because they impose their personality on their kids. spouses do the same thing. We husbands and wives and partners do the exact same thing. They're, they're talking to each other. And your owl spouse is saying, this is how you put dishes in the dishwasher, it could be something so small, but it becomes a source of frustration, because the parents just sticking stuff in there. And I was like, stop doing that it's wrong. And the parents like, it's a dishwasher, I put the dishes in the I was like, No, there's a way you put the dishes and you are you are violating the system. And so they oftentimes just like they're butting heads, because they're each imposing their personality on each other. And whether it's as a spouse, or as our children, we have to recognize you have to honor the people's personalities around you. Or else you're sending a bad message that you know who they are isn't okay. And that's, that's not really good for somebody's self esteem, whether that's a spouse or whether it's a child.

Ari Gronich 36:52  

This is true. So let's, let's put the personalities with

Unknown Speaker 37:02  

with

Ari Gronich 37:04  

sorry, I'd lost my train of thought here for a second. We're going to put the response, okay, so the, the personalities are going to put them and attribute them to a set of conditions, right. So you need to clean the dishes, like you said, we're going to have the personality of each and how they do the dishes, right so that somebody can get an idea a dove is going to do the dishes this way a parrot is going to do the dishes that way. I just want to like I want to bring out I want to make this alive for the audience. I want them. Let's

Merrick Roseberg 37:52  

take something like cooking something very simple, like cooking dinner, you have an owl who has a has a menu, they have a recipe, they follow the recipe, exactly how it's taught to me, they're literally taking out their quarter teaspoon measuring spoon and their half teaspoon measurements, and they're flattening it off. And when they make something to make the exact same thing the exact same way. It is perfect dubs, they tend to rotate because they're very stable, and they don't like change. They tend to rotate around a few standard dishes. They make them all the time. It's Tuesday. It's pasta night. It's Thursday, it's you know, this is what we're eating. And, and they probably aren't trying a lot of new foods. It's just look, I know the family likes this. And so I make it for them. Parents can never make the same recipe the same way twice. Because, hey, I threw a little of this and I buy by the way I had some of this in my house. I threw that in I didn't really measure it. I'm not sure I do like it awesome. You should make this again. Wish I could I only remember what I put in there were the quantities I'd have to figure it out. They're they're daring. They like to try new foods like what's the worst thing that could happen? eagles are like eating their dinner out of the microwave over the over the sink because plates while I'm not burning another plate, it's fast. It's quick, whatever, just make it for me, let's go. You know, it's like, they want it fast. They want it quick. So each style is just a very different way of of take any topic and we give handling themselves and how they react and how they they model behaviors during that particular activity. Whether it's driving or whether it's cooking. It's all personality plays out in everything. You know, it's

Ari Gronich 39:42  

it's interesting to me because as I listened to you, I would have thought maybe I'm more of an owl because I'm fairly analytical. I like research. I like to hear the numbers right. And then when you mentioned how an Now I would cook, I will never, you probably never will see me caught with a recipe book in my hands ever, let alone measuring specific things more like that, you know, parrot for the cooking and Eagle for the for the eating?

Merrick Roseberg 40:21  

Well, we all have a little of everything in us. But there's probably one or two, which are like home base for you that nobody's just one that most people have at least two that are really strong.

Ari Gronich 40:32  

I feel like I am a fairly balanced of all four. Just based on on the conversation that we've that we've had, right, I have that analytical side, but then, you know, I have this little bit of I'm a results oriented, let's get stuff done kind of personality. But I'm not organized enough to actually do that. So I got the parent side and the creative energy. And then you know, of course, I love people and I'm empathetic. So.

Merrick Roseberg 41:03  

So that's the key Look, my last book was called the chameleon for that reason. That's what it's all about. It's about being the chameleon. It's about being the person who could be flexible and adaptable, no matter what is happening. I mean, take somebody like Oprah, and other self made billionaire, her Eagle, running her Empire and the amount of company she owns. I mean, you know, you don't generate billions of dollars in revenue from being a talk show host. There's something about what she does, but how she manages them is very out. I've met two people who worked with her, they said the exact same thing. There's no detail too small for Oprah, that she has to know everything about everything. So well. You can see her charisma on stage that you get a car you get a car, just so much energy, big smile, and her empathy. She cries with her guests, she hurt, donate so much money and time to different charitable causes. And, and philanthropy. It's it's Eagle parrot dove out. That's what I refer to as the chameleon. Somebody can do all for and adapt anyone

Ari Gronich 42:06  

nice, well, then I'm going to need to become a billionaire really quickly. So we'll have to work on that next. So let me let me go to this, you know, compassionate communication is all about the needs of the individual people finding their needs. So what personalities go with what needs

Merrick Roseberg 42:26  

so so when I think of compassionate communication, what I think is, I'm going to communicate to you in a way that you want to be communicated to so we might think it's just lives in the world of the dove, because doves need you to soften their language, they want you to be very sensitive and, and not abrasive or abrupt in any way. Even just the tone of voice, they just want to know that you're here and you're there for them. Whereas What do Eagles need, I always say, Be brief, be brilliant, be gone. For an eagle doesn't need a long preamble doesn't need a lot of emotional and energetic communication. Just tell them what they need to know. And they're happy. For the owl. They feel comfortable when they have the data, they have an inner need to understand why and to get the information. And if you look, for example, impose change on an hour without giving them information, time to acclimate to it, the logic behind what you're doing. They're going to feel uncomfortable. parrots, they need energy, they need positivity. The more positive you are, the more excited they get, the more energized you are, the more enthusiastic they are. They need to feel your energy. So you can see how different they are, from details to energy to sincerity to bottom line. We can't just treat everybody the same. We have to think about who we're talking to.

Unknown Speaker 43:53  

Cool.

Ari Gronich 43:55  

So then what is the biggest challenge that you've seen with people and their personalities these days?

Merrick Roseberg 44:06  

I think it's that we impose our personality on others that we think we think if I need something, they need it. If something's important to me, it's important to them. You have an eagle and a dove couple. And the eagle is very direct and straightforward. You know, I had this moment I was sitting in an airport A while back and I was watching this couple and and he turned to this was the moment I tuned into their interaction because they were getting louder. And he turns around, he says, I don't understand how effect is an effect. And she looked at him and she's like, Well, it's because of the way you said the fact that matters. He's like, it doesn't matter how you say effect. It's still a fact. And she was like Oh, yes, it does. And you can see this didn't make sense to him that he was expecting just to be factual and data driven, probably Owl and Eagle. She's a more sensitive dove. And he's now offended. Her. And now what's happening is they're now arguing about how they're arguing, instead of arguing about what they're arguing about, and I think this is the great problem is that we communicate in our own style. we impose it on people. We think people need what we need want, what we want, like what we like. And we don't realize that, look, if you want to be a compassionate communicator, and we want to treat people well, we have to think about their needs, not our own. And I think that's the fundamental issue is not imposing our style on others.

Unknown Speaker 45:33  

Hmm.

Ari Gronich 45:35  

If only that were possible,

Merrick Roseberg 45:38  

it is possible, but it takes it takes focus and intention. Only.

Ari Gronich 45:45  

We could see some way of that happening more often than not, Hmm, what might be some techniques that people can play with in order to create an environment that allows that to happen more often.

Merrick Roseberg 46:04  

The first step is self awareness, you have to understand your own style. And I said this earlier, the most self aware people tend to be the happiest people, they tend to have the healthiest relationships, because they understand themselves, and they understand how they're treating other people. And so the first step is, you have to understand your own style, or else you're just destined to impose it on the people around you. So you've got to understand, am I an eagle, parrot dove, or an L? And am I using my style? Well, or am I overusing it. And now, it's the weakness or the shadow side of my personality. So first is understand yourself. The next step, now I have to understand who am I talking to? Am I talking to an eagle, a parent or a dove or an owl? And if I understand their style, can I be flexible and adaptable, and, and not impose my style on them, but rather, treat them the way they need to be treated? And so it's if I were just gonna give you a couple steps, it's, you got to know yourself, you've got to be able to read people quickly. And you have to be able to flex. I mean, imagine the world we live in if we did that. I could read your style fast, and I treat you how you want to be treated. How would relationships be that right?

Ari Gronich 47:16  

Yeah, you know, it goes against the golden rule, treat people the way you want to be treated? No, no, treat them the way that they would want to be treated.

Merrick Roseberg 47:24  

it you know, it's funny, I talk about that a lot. And I always say like, I'm not invalidating the golden rule. The Golden Rule holds true for virtues. In other words, I should treat you how you want to be treated in terms of kindness, fairness, respect, compassion, integrity, honesty, reliability, all of these great virtues. Yes, I should treat you how I want to be treated. But in terms of style, how I do that, how I communicate to you, that's when I need to treat you how you want to be treated, not how I want to be treated. So they're both true. I mean, underlying both of those is, in fact, respect.

Ari Gronich 47:59  

Yeah, I just want to invalidate the golden rule a little bit more. By saying that we do not want people to treat us the way we treat ourselves, being we treat ourselves more rapidly than anybody could possibly ever treat us, in my opinion, the self talk that we have. So we do not want to be treated the way that we treat ourselves, let alone the way we want to be treated. Because we don't treat ourselves very nicely.

Merrick Roseberg 48:30  

Yeah, I agree. We have a very loud internal critic. In fact, some styles have a louder internal critic, dubs and owls tend to have a louder internal critic than parrots and Eagles do. Yeah, I love this quote. It was when I when I was 20 years old, I really cared about what people thought about me. Then I was 40 years old. And I no longer cared about what people thought about me. But when I was 60 years old, I realized nobody was thinking about me at all. It's like, yeah, worried all that time for nothing. No one cares. We have a very loud internal critic. I think that is very true.

Ari Gronich 49:10  

Yes, we've got to do something about about that guy. You know, and it's funny because I would assume that most parents are you know, most comedians are parents. Right? I would assume

Merrick Roseberg 49:25  

not not necessarily we think that hey, now you can name a lot of parrot comedians but take like a Jerry Seinfeld he was an owl or he's an owl he's very logical and meticulous he dissects the world George Carlin was an owl actually, a lot of comedians are surprisingly owls, because they take things apart, they notice things and then they expand on him. So it is interesting. We we think their parents, but a lot are actually I was it's definitely true. I mean, Robin Williams say, you know,

Ari Gronich 49:51  

right. And they and they don't have very much of that inner critic

Merrick Roseberg 49:56  

right. They they have a a More outward critic. In other words, the eagles and parrots when things go wrong, they don't necessarily equate what happened to them as a person. In other words, when something goes wrong for an owl or a dove, they say, well, it's like, I should have thought of this. I can't believe I didn't plan this, I can't believe I didn't think this through and they blame themselves. When a parent or an eagle, something goes wrong for them, they go, things happen. We had learning, what are you gonna do, I'll fix it next time. So they don't beat themselves up as much as the owls. And the dogs tend to do.

Ari Gronich 50:42  

Okay, so then I want to know this right now. Right now, right now, I want to know how to take the best parts of each personality, embed them in my spirit and soul, and personality, and dismiss all of those other behaviors from the other personalities. So how does one, start learning how to accentuate the positive, while the sensual hitting

Merrick Roseberg 51:12  

the negative? Well, remember, the negative isn't, so there's no inherently negative style, the negative is in the overuse, it's in the eagle becomes aggressive parrot becomes so optimistic, it's unrealistic, dove becomes passive and gets stepped on our will become so self critical, and of themselves and others that it's not a matter of, of taking on or getting rid of one of the styles, it's a matter of making sure you're using your style, at a healthy level. So if you're using so if there's two things that go on one, you use your style at a healthy level, that's powerful, because you're going to be the highest version of yourself. But you also be need to be able to tap into the other three. So you need to, because there will be moments, you need to be able to stand in your power and be assertive as an eagle when you need to be, you need to dial up energy and enthusiasm as a parent, when you need it. You need to dial up compassion and sincerity of the dub, you need to be able to focus on the details and make detailed data driven decisions when you need to. And And so, if you can't do one of those four, it's a blind spot, it's going to get you in trouble. But what I would say is, you don't have to make them a part of your personality, let's say I'm a strong dove, I don't need to become an eagle, I just need to make sure that when there's times I need to stand in my power and speak my voice and say my truth that I can do it, it's probably going to be uncomfortable, it's probably gonna take energy, because anytime you work out of your natural mode, it takes energy. But the key is to be able to be able to tap into all four of them, not to change yourself into all four of them.

Ari Gronich 52:57  

And I was hoping I could just stick a you know, thing on the back of my skull and matrix that matrix it all in my head.

Merrick Roseberg 53:05  

Just download it in. Exactly,

Ari Gronich 53:08  

you know, disappointed me Merrick here. I mean, I'm trying to trying to get this stuff inside my soul. Really, what I want for the audience is for them to get it into their soul. And so, you know, let's talk about how we use these personality types for the most optimal, you know, level. I mean, obviously, I'm known as the performance therapist, and I'm all about Performance and Results. Don't know what personality type that particular thing makes me but I'd say that's probably a combination, because I like to have fun while I'm, you know, producing results, and I'm compassionate about it. But you know, I'm a results guy. So let's talk about results. How do we optimize ourselves within these personality types? What techniques what ways would you like? Are there books to read and study? Are there things to do? What What would you suggest? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 54:19  

the first thing is, are you in a role in which you can be the highest version of yourself? In other words, have you ever seen a parent who's been in a job where they have to attract data and they if they are sitting at a desk for eight hours a day with very little human interaction? By the time they go home, they are absolutely exhausted. Or an owl who has to be out networking and schmoozing and having these you know, getting up on stage, I mean, they can they do it short, anybody can display any behavior, but it's exhausting. The first thing I would say is, are you in a role that allows you to be you? Because if you're not You're going to go home every single day exhausted. And I think that's, you know how many times that's the key how many people have had a job, where they were in a job, and they felt like they were just drowning. And then they move to a new job. And they were like, ah, I can breathe again, because they're being themself. So the first thing is, if you are in a role where you get to be you, you're not going to have to try to flex so much, you're not going to have to take on other behaviors, because you just get to be you, as a parrot. I get to go on stage, I get to talk to people at conferences, when we have conferences, you know, I get to be out there, I get to be in front of people, and I get to network and talk to people. I'm like living my highest version of myself. Now. When I first started doing this, I was booking flights and hotels and coordinating logistics, and oh, my god, there's so much detail that you don't see, it's like a concert, you don't realize everything that had to happen to make that two hour show take place. But what do I do? It was exhausting. So I hire somebody who's going to be the hour, who's going to allow me to do what I like. And they get to do what they like. Like, I'm not dumping all this logistical stuff on the on this person that I don't like I'm giving them the bad stuff. They like doing it. And so the first thing you have to do is, is make sure you're in a role that feeds you. As opposed to depletes you. I mean, have you ever had that in your career where you were like, you had a job, and you just went home every day and you're like, exhausted, and then you finally get to do what you love? And you feel like you can breathe now?

Ari Gronich 56:38  

Yeah, so I've been lucky enough that I've pretty much been my own boss since I was 18. However, I've been unlucky in the fact that I've been my own boss, since I was 18. And therefore, the things that I have no interest in doing, I've done. And yeah, I'll tell you, the things that that make me the most depleted are doing the things that I am absolutely not good at. Not in my brain, not in my focus, not in my, my wheelhouse. You know, I tell people, like you put a body in front of me, I could pretty much turn it into anything that it wants to be whether it's compassion, you know, competition, whatever I could, I could make the body heal and perform at peak levels that the body never thought it could do. But put me onto digital marketing, and I can't make anything perform for any reason whatsoever.

Merrick Roseberg 57:49  

And so what that means is you shouldn't be doing, right. Oh, right, find someone who's passionate about it, and is going to do it at a higher level. And I often ask my staff this question, in fact, we're coming up on the end of the year, I always do this with my staff, the at the end of every year, I meet with my team, and I say to each one of them. If there's one thing that I could take off your plate, that would make you happier, what is it Now keep in mind, it could be something they've been doing for 10 years, and they're very good at it. But they're just done. It's just not them anymore. It's not where they want to be putting their energy. And over the years, I've shuffled lots of roles and responsibilities, we've hired new people to create new roles. Because I want people to be fed by what they do. I mean, imagine the productivity. Imagine the joy you get from work, when you get to do what you like, and don't have to do the things you don't like, well, as a leader, I want to get those things off their plate. It's not serving them. It's not serving me and the company either. And so it's it's understanding what feeds you and what deeply to and then you start being the highest version of yourself, get all the rest of that stuff off your plate. Because when you get all that little stuff that drives you crazy off your plate, you have now way more time and energy to do more of what you do like and then work feels like pleasure. It doesn't feel like work at all.

Ari Gronich 59:12  

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I love getting on stage. I love speaking. I like seeing the looks on the faces of the audience when they get a haws and lightbulbs pop over their heads. I love that. And then I want to run into my hotel room and I want to relax for a little while. I don't want to take a break. And I want to rejuvenate and then I want to go back out. Right? It's that introverted extrovert side of me. I think that being a Gemini I'm just screwy with all personalities all at once jumbled inside my my head What do you think?

Merrick Roseberg 59:55  

We all have them all. You know my parrot and my Eagle are pretty strong, but there are Absolutely moments where I'm in alamode. And there are moments where I'm in dove mode, you know, we all have them. The key is to tap into the right one at the right time. Using the right style at the right moment, and knowing how to use the four styles. Well, and when the buttons Yeah, when that be great.

Ari Gronich 1:00:18  

Push the button owl button. I need Eagle right now Eagle Eagle has landed. Yep, push the book.

Merrick Roseberg 1:00:26  

You know, I we have people walk into my office. And we have we have these little guys here we have these desktop birds right where you walk in. And if I'm, if there are times where like, I, I just got back, I was on the road for four days. And I'm going to be on the road for the next three. And I've got eight hours to get a lot done. And I put the eagle out and I'm like, Alright, I'm in Eagle mode, meaning come into my office. I am not in parrot dove mode, come in schmooze talk, see what's happening. You've got to come in, tell me what you need to tell me. And and head on out because I've got a lot to do in a short window. And so we use the birds as kind of a communication tool to say, hey, I want to talk to you. I want to answer your questions. But be direct, be succinct, because I got a lot to do right now. And so they become a to a tool that people can use picture in relationships, where I'm a parrot, my wife is an owl. And she asked me a question and I say, oh, all you do is this. And she looks at me and she goes, owl. And I'm like, okay, so let me walk you through it. First, you need to do this, this and this. Now as you go through it a few things you want to think about? It becomes a communication tool to be able to use the birds in a way that gives you a language that is non judgmental. There's that was that interaction wasn't You're such a parrot. And how would you Why would you talk to me like that? It's like, and then I'll remember my needs. Here's what I need. I need you to be more of an owl right now. I'm sure anybody can display that any behavior. So it becomes a language that we have to use?

Ari Gronich 1:02:01  

Should there be practice groups for this?

Merrick Roseberg 1:02:04  

I you know, I think we have practice groups. They're all around us. I think we we have co workers where they're all different styles, our family members are all different styles. There, we are experiencing it every single day. Every person you interact with is a person to practice it with.

Ari Gronich 1:02:21  

So we should call this season, the holiday practice group season. Because we got Thanksgiving, and Halloween and Christmas and Hanukkah and all these different holidays right now that people are getting an opportunity to practice their personalities with their family, the biggest triggers to those personalities. So any suggestions during this time of year for families? What you know, what are some things that they can actually do to shift their family dynamics maybe and have a, you know, more peaceful holiday season with each other?

Merrick Roseberg 1:03:05  

Yeah, I think one is thought process. One is behavior. You know, from a thought process perspective, it's recognizing that they are just being who they are, that remove the judgment. So on a thanks, Thanksgiving, when my wife is, is coordinating things, and I want to be helpful. And she says to me, I just need you to set the table. And then I go and I set the dining room table. And then I walk by the dining room table a little while later. And I realize I have a magic dining room table. That resets itself, because clearly, I did not set it properly. Now, I could get very offended by that. But actually I say she's an owl. She has a specific way. It's fine. Yeah, I bought over the years, I have learned by the way. Now I say, why don't you set one of the place settings, and I'll replicate it. See, I've had learning. But But early on, I would have got I was getting frustrated like well, why are you asking me if you're just going to redo it anyway. And it became conflict. Now it's just tease the owl, she has a specific way. I'm not offended by that. So so if you understand who someone is, the judgment goes away the conflict and drama goes away. The second is let people do what they're good at. You know, here, why don't you organize where everybody is going to sit? This is your the dove, you really care about making sure people are next. Do you have an opinion about this? And you're very concerned that everybody's happy. So why don't you take that? Or you are the parent? Hey, maybe we're gonna do some fun activities. Maybe we're having a zoom Thanksgiving or zoom holiday party. It's happening around the country. Hey, why don't you come up with some activities? Got it. You give us zoom, you know, team building activity to an hour. They're like, Well, what do you do? What do you want me to do? And the parents like, I'll make something up. So it's one it's understanding the people around you I'm not judging them for who they are. But to tap into their strengths, let them do what they're good at. And everybody gets a moment to shine. So it's like, imagine that world where we don't judge each other, we let people accentuate their strengths. In a family, the drama goes away in a business environment, that's a productive team.

Ari Gronich 1:05:19  

Nice. Wow, this is a, I could go on and on. I could have, I could have these conversations with you. For a while I have a friend who at one point created something similar, more of a sales tool with personality types. And he assigned them all animal types. One of them is my one of my types, I have to I'm actually on the cusp of two of these one is the architect owl. So again, you can already hear from what architect owl is what the kind of personality which is very similar, actually, to the personality type that you prescribe to owl. So therefore, you can kind of see how how these things can match up a bit. The other one was a cuddly bear or something like that. Ugly Teddy Bear, as very dark, like, the only difference between the two was, one is head. And one is heart. So bear was heart, architect owl was head. And it's just a matter of, again, for sales. Where does this person make their decisions? And they're harder in their head? Sure. But, you know, it was interesting that I always had I took the test a number of times always had the same, just like when I take the test for NLP, I always get the exact same answer. I am 100%, an AK, which is auditory kinesthetic, which basically means we need to do stuff in order to learn stuff. And we have a committee inside of a committee inside of a committee inside of our heads. So anything that you might say to us needs to go through the filter of committee, after committee after committee in order for us to process it and get it to where we actually know what you're saying. Kind of interesting.

Merrick Roseberg 1:07:29  

Sure. And it sounds very dove and owl like you get the dove who lives in the world of heart, the owl who lives in the world of head, that's they blend together very well, it's they tend to be someone who really cares about others, but they like to do things a specific way. Yes, I

Ari Gronich 1:07:44  

like my dishwasher, filled in a very specific way.

Merrick Roseberg 1:07:51  

Because it's wrong any other way.

Ari Gronich 1:07:54  

Absolutely inefficient any other way. There is an efficient way and a non efficient way. I don't like to say wrong or right. I like to say my way or your way, but but you kind of get the idea. It's, it's To me, it's like it's either efficient, or it's not efficient. It's not both, it's efficient, or not efficient. If it takes you

Merrick Roseberg 1:08:17  

sounds very altuve, like

Ari Gronich 1:08:20  

10 hours, that's not efficient. If it takes half an hour, that's sufficient. These are all facts, right? So I get myself in trouble with with my prescribed knowing of how something should be. And so I want I want people to kind of get this conversation that they might be having in their own head. But I know it's right. I know, it's the way it should be. I know it's the best way and the most optimal and, and wait a minute and some and it's my way. So therefore, you should do it my way, right? Because it's sufficient. But so let's let's unpack that, as I know, we've done it a little bit in, you know, prior in the conversation, but let's unpack it a little bit for people because I think that inside people's heads they have these conversations a lot.

Merrick Roseberg 1:09:16  

Yeah. But George Carlin I love this quote, he said, Everyone driving slower than me is an idiot. And everyone driving faster than me is a maniac. It's that that feeling that there's not just it's not just a way, it's not even my way. It is the way and I talk a lot about that when I work with groups and I and then people and I say look, we have an inner belief that that the way we do things is the way it is. But what we have to shift to is it is the way it is for you. And that for other people that may not be their reality that may not be Their path or the way they do things are what works for them. And, and, and that's the challenge that we have to get to is that maybe there are you know that there are many paths to the top of the mountain and we each must find our own way, you know, that kind of Japanese kind of Maxim right? You know, maybe, maybe you all get to the top of the mountain, but you get there differently. Howard, Howard Schultz from Starbucks. They, I mean, that is the essence of dove leadership. It's, it's, he's he spent they spend more money on employee benefits, not salary, but benefits than they do on coffee beans. And why is that for a fast food restaurant, like you go through a drive food, drive thru, you pick up your coffee, and you're out, the only unless you park yourself there to write a book, but I mean, most you're in and out,

Ari Gronich 1:10:49  

they charge five bucks for a cup of 10 cents.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:54  

It could be that.

Merrick Roseberg 1:10:57  

But But what you get is a company that cares about culture, they care about their people, they invest so much money in their people, because that's dove leadership. And for him, it works. And it has created an incredible Empire. I mean, before Starbucks, really, coffee came in a little styrofoam cup, and it cost a buck. No one would have ever thought you could sell coffee for $5. I mean, go back to the 80s. I mean, not that far, when you got a cup of coffee, you came in a styrofoam cup, and it had little plastic lid and you bent the top back. And that was your coffee, and it was $1. That's not through today's world. And, and but he created in in a very dove way. And I think that we have to recognize that, that, you know, Steve Jobs was more of an eagle. He said, I don't care about customer research. People don't know what they want until I give them what they want. And then they'll be happy that they got it. And that's an eagle who just says an owl could never lead like that. And I would say that is fundamentally the wrong way of leading an organization. You go out you do research to what people want, you create it, you sell it. You can't run a company like this. Yeah, well, Steve Jobs reinvented through Apple, a lot of industries. I mean, it's incredible what the iPhone and everything Steve Jobs did throughout his to change the music industry. I mean, through Pixar changed movies, and it's just incredible everything he did. And what we have to recognize is, maybe there are other ways to look at the world, and they're okay. And that's the that's the piece we have to get to.

Ari Gronich 1:12:24  

Yeah, you know, the the, the thing that I learned most doing these podcasts interviews, is listening skills. And I no longer have to listen for what I'm going to respond with next, which is why I fumble and mumble my words every now and then. But I get to listen for the understanding of what the person is trying to tell me so that when I respond, I respond, having just gained an extra layer of knowledge that I get to repeat and learn again, right. So I learned it from you talking the first time, learn it from listening to understand it, and then I learned it from repeating it back to you. And I've learned that this is probably one of the greatest gifts out of doing these podcast interviews. And, and I thought I was a good listener before. I mean, I've studied it, I've you know, been in organizations where we had to practice listening. But, you know, it goes to that different level. So the other thing that I've heard, as I've listened to people in these podcast interviews, is probably the greatest. What would be the greatest shift and change for the people in our country, which is to begin to listen again. With the listening for understanding versus the listening for reacting and responding.

Merrick Roseberg 1:14:14  

And judging.

Ari Gronich 1:14:16  

Yeah, and especially judging. Just remember all you Christians out there, Jesus said no judgement. But then again, so did you know every other part of religion in general, so I just like to talk in, you know, nun voices every now and then.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:40  

Children.

Merrick Roseberg 1:14:42  

Oh, but what I love about what you said, though, is just that, yeah, no two people come together for the benefit of just one that that we you, as a host of a show get to learn from the people you're interacting with. And that's what we should be doing on a daily basis. Like if I want to learn how to treat dogs I just need to pay attention to how they treat me because we tend to treat others how we want to be treated. If you want to know what an eagle needs from you, just look how an eagle treats you with how the Eagles treat the people around you. If you really listen to how they are speaking to you, that's the window into how you should be speaking to them. Because we do this all the time we treat people the way we want to be treated. If we can develop that muscle on listening is like a muscle. It's like the more you practice it, the stronger it gets. When you can listen and tune into how people are treating you. They are revealing what they need from you. And that's it's very powerful, because it's right there. They're just telling you what they need from you.

Ari Gronich 1:15:44  

Yeah, you know, I've studied the love languages. Have you studied the love languages? Absolutely. Yeah. And they,

Merrick Roseberg 1:15:50  

there's they all parallel, I've always said I could take each love language and infuse the birds into each one.

Ari Gronich 1:15:55  

Alright, so let's, let's go love language. I'll go with my first two and then the rest. So we're going to go with quality touch.

Merrick Roseberg 1:16:05  

Right now, think about think about quality touch Eagle versus dove. Do you think there's the same level of sensitivity or softness, and an eagle touch versus a Duff's touch?

Ari Gronich 1:16:20  

Very different,

Merrick Roseberg 1:16:21  

very different. But if you're an eagle, and you touch a dove, it's probably it may not have the softness the that personal connection in the same way that that it does, like I picture like the eagle who's walking along and they're like, hey, and like boom, hi fi you know, or like, reach over grab somebody's hand. Where's the dove reaches over to their partner and they are the Pat. Yeah. Or that. Hey, hey, the double Pat. Exactly where is the dove reaches over and they kind of rub your back for a second. Like, hey, it's so nice to see you. Alright, there's a even in the handshake. It's not like the killer grip of Eagle. It's the double. So nice to see the double palm grab. But you can just see something just as an example. You have to think about that. Who am I interacting with?

Ari Gronich 1:17:09  

Exactly. Okay, quality, time.

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:11  

Quality, time. quality time for a parrot is different than quiet. I'll pick different ones is different than a quality time for a dove. parrot quality time is Let's go. Let's go out. We'll have an adventure. We'll do something fun. It'll be crazy. It'll be awesome. We'll have a good time together. quality time for the dove might be Hey, we just make a nice dinner. And we get to talk for a while.

Ari Gronich 1:17:33  

huddle. You forget to cuddle we can

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:34  

we watch a movie on the couch and cuddle we got right. But notice quality time very different. Big Adventure. cuddling on the couch.

Ari Gronich 1:17:42  

Yeah, so an owl might be you know, having a conversation like this for instance.

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:48  

Yeah. Or Yeah, taking something apart. like wow, let's let's do something together. My wife has an owl. She she has done so many puzzles throughout the pandemic. She and I we do them together. And I I said that, but I have to put music on. And I'm always talking and she's like, can't we just do the puzzle and I'm like, we can do the puzzle. But can't we talk to infuse some parrot Alright, I'll be the owl I'll do the puzzle. But you got to put music on in the background, I have to have conversation. I narrate the puzzle.

Ari Gronich 1:18:20  

Alright, um, acts of

Merrick Roseberg 1:18:24  

service, acts of service. Now, it's interesting, because it takes eagles and dubs for example, Eagle acts of service might be just, hey, I've got a friend of mine, they need help. I'm gonna go do it. You know, you can count on me. I'll be there to help you in any way. But an act of service for a dove should have be very personal and not looking for the Thank you. They're just you're doing it because I care. And I care about you. And I want to be here for you. And so even the tone, the way you're offering help, is very different. Like, I just want to be here for you. versus what do you need? I'll do it. He can hear the difference between an eagle and adopt for example.

Ari Gronich 1:19:06  

Yes.

Merrick Roseberg 1:19:09  

Let's see. Like words of affirmation, right. So words of affirmation. So imagine owl versus parrot. And you just want to recognize something they did. So for a parrot you say? That was awesome. I mean, you were amazing. I can't even tell you how much I appreciate it. You knocked it out of the park. You were there. You made it happen. I love it. Awesome. Do you think that's good? words of affirmation for an owl? No. No, I want to thank you when you did this for me. That really meant a lot to me. When you did also when you did this, this and this. You know that took a lot of time and energy and I appreciate it. Now as you went through that a few things right or for the dove. It's just I appreciate you because What you did that just meant so much to me? It's just about sincere appreciation. Hey, I wanted to thank you. I mean, you got that Eagle mode. When you did this You helped me get this done. Appreciate it. Right like, like it's they're fundamentally different Eagles about the results dubs about sincerity Al's about the specifics parrots about the energy, those words of affirmation and how you talk to them vary depending upon the person.

Ari Gronich 1:20:28  

Last but not least, is gifts.

Merrick Roseberg 1:20:31  

Yes, when you show gifts of appreciation, very, very different. You know, I have this my my brother in law, and my sister, my sisters is the Duff, I mean, very strong. My brother in law's got like that owl, an eagle. And I always think back to this moment, where, after their very first Valentine's Day together, he gets her. He gets her, he goes to the store, and he just gets her regular card. And he writes in her name, and then signs it. And she's like, what the hell like you'd like that's what you did for Valentine's Day. Because it's not personal. So. So he then goes out the next year. And he he gets a card, and he gets a box of chocolate. And he goes, and he hands it to and he's like, so he's like, here you go. And she's like, no, it's not Here you go. It's, I thought you'd really enjoy this. Like, like he couldn't get it right. And so one year, this is like five years later, he says, he turns around, he goes, he goes, he goes, I got it this year. He's like, I wrote a personal card that I hand wrote, I bought her flowers, her favorite kind of flowers, I went to this place that makes homemade chocolate. And I picked out her favorite chocolates. And I wrote about how much she means to me, and how important she is in my life. And I handed her the card. And I handed her the chocolates. And I handed her the flowers. And she was like, started to have tears in her eyes. And I looked at her and he goes, I just don't get your sister because I looked at her. And I said, so did I do it? Did I do it? Right? Was this right this year? And I'm like, Oh, you were so close. You were right there. I mean, literally right there. You just erased the whole thing. Like, you know, it's just like the gift for the dove needs to just be so genuinely sincere and come from the heart. It's not Did I do it right? Was that it? You can hear the difference the owls trying? I was trying to do it. But just as an example, you can see what means something to one person may be very different to another. And we imagine infusing the birds into those love languages. And this is the power of what we're talking about is that when you really treat people the way they want to be treated, they feel that connection from you. And it's it's, it's very emotionally connecting. But if you are imposing your style on them, it may not have any value even though you bought a gift, it didn't really mean much. You got the card, but you just signed your name and didn't mean much to the DOP. Right? If you wrote something, it would mean something.

Ari Gronich 1:23:06  

Yeah, I think I think that's a good note, to leave the audience on. And, as always, I asked, you know, for two to three, maybe four tips, tricks, things that somebody can act upon immediately. I think you just gave one I'm gonna have you repeat it. But yeah, just what are some things that people can do to create their new tomorrow today? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 1:23:34  

the first piece is going into you got, as I said earlier, got to have that level of self awareness. recognize your bird style, so you're aren't imposing it on others. I would take a variety of things like amount of information, how much information do you provide the people around you, you provide an owl very different than the amount of information you provide an eagle or a parrot. So start tuning into how much information you're communicating, start tuning into how you're communicating to the people around you. Is it very directly and bluntly like an eagle? Is it softer? Like a dub? Is it more logical? like an owl? Is it energetic, like a parrot? How are you coming across to the people around you? And are you imposing your style on them? So start taking a look at just communication is a great place? How much information you share? How do you share it? And are you treating them? How you want to be treated? Or are you treating them how they want to be treated? And if we honor people who are who they are. You create strong relationships. If you honor yourself and put yourself in a role were in a place where your style strengths can shine, man, you're just going to be able to accomplish anything. But if you are in a in a role or in a job that you have to constantly do things that are outside of your personality. It's going to be exhausting. You can never be the highest version of yourself when your job exhausts you every day. Find ways to do what is meaningful. To you,

Ari Gronich 1:25:00  

awesome. And that's a really good reminder for any HR rep CEO, CFO, who's thinking of treating their employees, like their deficit on the balance sheet instead of an asset is, you know, if you want them to be an asset for you treat them the way they need to be treated for their personality. And you'll get more out of them. And so that is, that's awesome. And I really appreciate you being here. And all of this information that you've laid down on, on the crowd. So how can somebody get ahold of you, if they want to get a hold of you,

Merrick Roseberg 1:25:39  

you can go to take flightlearning.com. And you can discover just the range of training programs that we have there, and you can reach out and on Twitter, it's at Merrick . And also on LinkedIn, connect with me. And I always try to put a little daily dose of bird wisdom so people can keep learning about the styles.

Ari Gronich 1:26:01  

Awesome, awesome. And so I'm imagining that this book take flight is not about being a pilot.

Merrick Roseberg 1:26:10  

It is not it both taking flight and the chameleon are taking flight is one long fable that allows you to see the birds in action and then the second half of the book is okay, now how do you apply it in your life? It's kind of like writing a movie. The next book the chameleon was like writing a series in a season of a sitcom has 22 fables like each one's a different episode? Sometimes eagles and parrots sometimes doves analysis, sometimes all four, with the all knowing chameleon that teaches you about yourself. And each each one of those fables has a different lesson of how to apply the styles in your life. And so they're fun. You'll see yourself in the stories are these good? Yeah, they're really for adults. But I've had many people say to me that they've sat and they read them with their children. I've had many people say they get the audio book and they just they drive and listen to a fable and then turn it off and then have a whole conversation with the family about how that is playing out. Within that that family itself. So kids will

Ari Gronich 1:27:10  

get it. Yeah, awesome. So we'll we'll see about being able to get a link or something for an E book or an audio book or whatever we can do for the audience so that they can check you out, check out your book, and, and hopefully, learn a little bit about personalities, help themselves move into a new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world. I am your host, Ari Gronich. This has been a fantastic episode, talking to Merrick about personalities and birds, and you know, the birds and the bees. With regards to personalities, having this amazing amount of information for both corporations as well as relationships is great. So, thank you so much. We would love it if you would like review, rate, comment, subscribe, participate in a conversation about this information. We'll we'll look forward to hearing from you and talking to you. So thank you so much. We'll be with you again next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Merrick Rosenberg. He is is a keynote speaker and thought leader on personality styles and team development. He co-founded Team Builders Plus in 1991 and Take Flight Learning in 2012. He is the author of The Chameleon and co-author of Taking Flight!

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY MERRICK FOR MORE INFO

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We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Merrick Roseberg 0:00  

When I meet somebody like Bill Gates, that owl style, it's overwhelmingly I see them in engineering and finance it. And and that's, that's his world where somebody like a parrot, like I'll use Richard Branson, he's the marketing guy, his genius is in his marketing. And that's when you go into a marketing department. You go into social media, you go into a PR firm, you find tons of parents. So that's how he drove his success. parrot. sensationalism. It's dramatic, it's big, but it's over the top

Hi, I am here with Steve Prentice, He is a professional speaker, published author, writer, journalist, project manager, university lecturer, and consultant, who helps people, businesses, and technology understand each other. he wears a few hats, but ultimately it's all about communicating and implementing the ideas, plans, and skills that are vital for surviving and thriving in a quickly changing world.

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY STEVE FOR MORE INFO

https://www.steveprentice.com/

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:07  

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich. Remember to like subscribe rate review, comment below anything that you have to say good, bad, indifferent, we want to have the conversations. That's the whole important point. Let's have these conversations that create a new tomorrow today and move our country forward so we can activate our vision for a better world. Today I have with me Steve Prentice. Steve is, you know, he works in the space where people and technology collide. He's got degrees in organizational psychology and journalism. And he focuses on the way humans work with our in spite of technological advances to help companies become more pragmatic in their usage. Steve, why don't you tell us a little bit about your your history and what got you and interested in what you're doing and, and how you became you.

Steve Prentice 1:13  

I just love technology. And I love what it can do. My father was an engineer. And even though I'm not, I still have that desire to see how things work, take them apart and bring them back together again. So when I was trying to find work as a student in university, I got a temp job. And this was in the days when dos space computers were the thing before windows before the internet. And what I noticed was that people were having trouble with things such as the F keys on the keyboard, it sounds very arbitrary right now. But what those F keys mean. And if you go back, if you're as old as I am, you can remember when dealing with things like WordPerfect, these these programs before Microsoft became the ruler of everything. So I've created kind of a style and an ability to speak, to write, to teach and also to consult organizations, including for some very large, you know, huge, well known high tech firms on how to explain their technologies know how to take concepts like artificial intelligence or facial recognition away from being simply a technological cool thing. A factoring in the fear people may have about these technologies, identity privacy, or even just job loss and saying, How can we make these things mixed together? And that's, that's really what I've been doing now for almost 30 years. And it just keeps on happening. And I just love it. Well,

Ari Gronich 2:34  

yeah, I happen to be old enough to remember WordPerfect wordstar. You know, writing code in basic, and then Doss and Harvard graphics? What was that

Steve Prentice 2:50  

Harvard graphics? That PowerPoint?

Ari Gronich 2:53  

Yes, you know, trying to create a game like Pong right? Back in, in the days of the old green and orange monitors, things. That's actually while I was going to school, one of the things that I did is I used to repair old 286 sX computers, the ones that are massively huge and heavy. And for some reason, I had a ability to figure out having not known much at the time, which jumper was out of place, and which one needed to be put back into place. But these days, I'll tell you the truth, my my technological prowess has been depleted into almost nothingness. And technology is moving at such a an exponential rate, that it makes it difficult from my old foggy brain to to learn a new trick. So, you know, why don't you kind of give us a little bit about this current side of technology, and maybe some ways either that people can understand it, and actually do it. Because for me, like I understand the concepts of what they say to do. But the technology and the integrations and the minutiae are so unique, that I find that I think that a lot of people are having trouble reaching their goals simply because of the technology that they don't know how to use rather than not having products or services that are valuable and worthy of people finding out about them.

Steve Prentice 4:41  

Absolutely. I mean, here's here's number one. We've we've been going through extremely tough year. We're not out of the woods yet with regards to everything going on. And one of the major offshoots aside from the tragedy of this year is job losses and just just people who have had real trouble just keeping afloat because of the changes in commerce. Now One thing that I do say, and I was saying this even before the COVID thing happened was, there's never been a better time to be at work right now. But there's also never been a better time to be out of work. And that sounds like a cynical statement, but it's not intended to be. What I'm saying here is that there's never been a better time to find new work. And the mindset, you were talking about the old foggy brain a moment ago, and the mindset from, let's say, a couple of decades ago, with regards to what a job was, and what a career was, was largely focused on maybe staying with the same job for your entire career, staying employable within a company. But we're now moving into an era where people of all ages are much more aware of their career mobility, we have the technologies, you know, the job sites, the websites, and the simple networking capacity for people to do so much more with themselves in terms of what they would like to do rather than what they think they should do. And so what I'm saying is, when you could tie in a tech technology and people and old mindsets and new mindsets together, what you're seeing is, there's a remarkably great opportunity to take just a little bit, a little slice of what LinkedIn can offer and turn that into a key that opens the door for your future that you're much more in control of. And I think that's a very satisfying place to be. So that's one example. I'll pause for a second, but I have a second one coming up to.

Ari Gronich 6:20  

Oh, I appreciate that. That's, it's good advice for for people to remember that these platforms are really about relationship building versus, you know, cold selling.

Steve Prentice 6:33  

Absolutely. cold call selling was was a thing. Of course, we know that and some people still do it. I used to teach courses in sales to a big bank. And I was shocked. This is only about 20 years ago. And I was shocked that they were still using 1950s concepts called smile and dial you know, you perform and you just have a list of numbers you call them. And you expect a 98% rejection rate you doing? Well, if you get two calls out of 100 that don't hang up on you. Now, is that really a way to do business? Wouldn't you rather have someone who says, Hey, I'm looking for a good accountant? Can you recommend one? And when a trusted friend of mine says yes, I know this person. Now I've got the word of mouth and the trust factor are at a much higher level. And there are technologies that allow retailers to do that, for example, if you are a small business owner, a store owner, or if you own a larger store with lots of sales associates, what can you do to pull in the data that your customers may have entered into their profile on your website, talking about the things that they like what they love, so that when you do speak to them,

Ari Gronich 7:37  

that's cool. And we've got this situation going on right now in the world where the technology that we've been trusting to use and connect and network is beginning a systematic process of censorship and echo chamber algorithmic, you know, delivery systems that basically keep us inside of a bubble that is based on our preconceived notions. And, you know, we've we're basically in this very odd, strange place where most people don't even know where they've been taken to in the last 510 years. And on the level of both technology and organizational psychology, that psychology part of how does one, you know, kind of step out of the matrix, so to speak, and yet still utilize the matrix for the benefit that it's that is there without falling into the traps of it?

Steve Prentice 8:47  

A two word answer critical thinking, people need to regain their capacity to think critically and think for themselves. What has happened over the last couple of decades is we have moved from a thinking society to exactly as you said, which is an echo chamber in which people seek out the news and the truth that matches their current biases. That could be a freedom of expression type concept, really, I want to seek out the news source that matches my political ideology. Okay, that's fair enough. But as a sort of a side story to illustrate this point. I come from England originally, and a lot of people who visit England are surprised, or at least they were in again in previous years. How well educated the taxi drivers seem to be, you know, you could have a conversation with a cab driver in London, and that person will tell you anything and everything about whatever you want to know. In fact, comedian George Burns once said, you know, it's amazing that taxi drivers and barbers aren't running the world because they seem to know so much about everything. But what it came down to was an education system not just only in the UK, but just just in the times where it was okay to learn stuff more than just simply what was there for your job. You know, you might say Why does a taxi driver need to know about the The Civil War, you know, the US revolution, anything like that Revolutionary War, knowledge is a powerful thing. The enjoyment of knowledge, the learning, the capacity to think and see both sides is the kind of stuff that has been lost as we have channeled our way into exactly that individual channels of enjoyment.

Ari Gronich 10:19  

Yeah. So in my book, a new tomorrow, I talk a lot about critical thinking common sense and recognizing the butterfly effector cause and effect in general, and how the consequences to our actions don't just stop with the direct consequences, but there's a consequence to the consequences to the consequence to the consequences, etc. and, in some ways, we need to get back to a place where common sense critical thinking is common again, because right now, it's, it's not common. But at the same time, I also talk about the things like the poisons that are in our air and our water, and the neurotoxic abilities of those that chemistry to affect whether we can cognitively think and critically think, as well as we used to be or if that's being suppressed via some of those chemicals. And, like one of those chemicals is fluoride in our water does absolutely zero, good. But it was originally used by the war machine in in Germany, to control the minds of the soldiers so that they were easily programmable. And all of a sudden, like mid 1940s, all of a sudden, we're putting it now in our water here in the United States, and claiming that it's going to help with our teeth, when we know that scientifically speaking, you have to have a different form of fluoride, and it has to be a direct application of this different form in order for to do any benefit for our teeth. But that's not the only thing that's a neurotoxin, that's kind of causing this situation of lack of critical thinking, lack of common sense. What have you found is a psychologist, you know, basically, difference between 20 years ago, and today, in the ability to have common sense and critical thinking in in the population? Have you have you found that it's had a significant drop, or a minor drop? Or, you know, what have you found,

Steve Prentice 12:44  

I don't see that it's had a drop, or an increase, I think we have just simply expanded logarithmically the volume of everything, if you go back 20 3040 100 years, you're still gonna have organizations that have a vested interest in suppressing the truth. You know, they're Photoshop, you know, is a new technology, but faking photographs has been around since photographs existed, the concepts like fluoride, or sodium in the water, suppressing the inflammation for situations like Love Canal, and other places where, you know, lots of industrial dumping went on. Organizations have always continued to suppress the capacity to find the truth and not saying suppress the truth, but suppress people's capacity to find the truth. You know, in the era, where we had three or four major television channels, we had trusted news readers like Walter Cronkite, it was, that was the target was was how to manage that particular narrow flow of information. But now in this age, of course, you know, as we've seen, with the rise of some large social media platforms, anybody can post anything and and basically generate a circle of followers very, very easily. So the the problem has magnified exponentially, as you know, and in league with the opportunities for us to use the technologies for our own devices. So yeah, it really hasn't changed, you know, in terms of additional subtraction, just simply expansion. But I always say that the everybody's got the the, the knowledge of the world at their fingertips, literally, I mean, your phone can find you anything you want to find. just choosing one source of knowledge is going to once again keyhole you into one particular line of thinking. So we have that opportunity to think critically using our devices to say okay, if someone tells me about a particular city or town or a situation going on how many areas how many different directions Can I actually find that information from and and, you know, come to my own educated conclusion. So no, I haven't seen it change. I just seen it. Expand in scope if you learn me and same level just louder, and but we now have much more opportunity to fix that problem as individuals. And it's quite a pleasurable experience just going online and seeing what I can learn from different sources before coming to a conclusion.

Ari Gronich 15:00  

How can people get a hold of you, Steve if they're interested in their company or them as individuals, bridging those gaps between technology and, and the people?

Steve Prentice 15:13  

Well, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to say that you can reach me at Steve prentice.com. And it's just it's Steve Prentice.com. And that's explains everything. In fact, you know, what, just as a tail end to what you're seeing there, I don't even give my business card now, when I give out business cards, is that that's all that's on there. And no phone number, no fax number, no address. Nothing just simply just says Steve prentice.com. And people look at me kind of strangely and say Is this it? This is your business card? I said, Yeah. Everything you need to know about me is there. That's all you need. Awesome.

Ari Gronich 15:49  

Thank you so much, Steve. And you know, this has been an interesting and eye opening conversation, I hope that you guys got a lot out of it. Because you know, these are the these are the tough conversations that go along with morality and technology and systems and how we work with them. So that we can create a better world not just more of the world that we have right now. So we want to create a new tomorrow today, we want to activate your vision for a better world. And remember to rate LIKE, SUBSCRIBE review comment below so we can continue on this conversation. And until then, I'D you really interesting dreams thinking about technology and your body combining. For now we are out. See you next time.

Hi, I am here with Steve Prentice, He is a professional speaker, published author, writer, journalist, project manager, university lecturer, and consultant, who helps people, businesses, and technology understand each other. he wears a few hats, but ultimately it's all about communicating and implementing the ideas, plans, and skills that are vital for surviving and thriving in a quickly changing world.

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY STEVE FOR MORE INFO

https://www.steveprentice.com/

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:00  

I'm Ari Gronich, and this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich. Remember to like subscribe, rate review, comment below. Anything that you have to say good, bad, indifferent, we want to have the conversations. That's the whole important point. Let's have these conversations that created a new tomorrow today and move our country forward so we can activate our vision for a better world. Today, I have with me, Steve Prentice. Steve is, you know, he works in the space where people and technology collide. He's got degrees in organizational psychology and journalism. And he focuses on the way humans work with our in spite of technological advances to help companies become more pragmatic in their usage. Steve, why don't you tell us a little bit about your your history and what got you and interested in what you're doing and, and how you became you.

Steve Prentice 1:22  

I just love technology. And I love what it can do. My father was an engineer. And even though I'm not, I still have that desire to see how things work, take them apart and bring them back together again. So when I was trying to find work as a student in university, I got a temp job. And this was in the days when dos based computers with a thing before windows before the internet. And what I noticed was that people were having trouble with things such as the F keys on the keyboard, it sounds very arbitrary right now. But what those F keys mean. And if you go back, if you're as old as I am, you can remember when dealing with things like WordPerfect, these these programs, before Microsoft became the ruler of everything. In order to print a document, you have to memorize this combination of things, it's actually Shift F seven and one in case anybody's checking. But the fact is, this is totally not a human thing. This is an engineering thing. And people got stuck on this, and people had to get training courses on how to use technology. And I thought, well, you know, this is not really what it should be about, there should be some sort of intuitive way that we can get together with our technology. And to this day, that hasn't fully happened. And it's not blaming engineers at all, but there's just always a disconnect between those who create the technologies and those who have to use them. So I've created kind of a style and an ability to speak, to write, to teach and also to consult organizations, including for some very large, you know, huge, well known high tech firms on how to explain their technologies, you know, how to take concepts like artificial intelligence or facial recognition away from being simply a technological cool thing. A factoring in the fear people may have about these technologies, identity, privacy, or even job loss, and saying, How can we make these things mixed together? And that's, that's really what I've been doing now for almost 30 years. And it just keeps on happening. And I just love it.

Ari Gronich 3:17  

Well, yeah, I happen to be old enough to remember WordPerfect wordstar. You know, writing code in basic, and then DOS and Harvard graphics. What was that

Steve Prentice 3:33  

Harvard graphics? That PowerPoint?

Ari Gronich 3:36  

Yes. You know, trying to create a game like Pong right? Back in, in the days of, of the old green and orange monitors, things. That's actually while I was going to school, one of the things that I did is I used to repair old 286 sX computers, the ones that are massively huge and heavy. And for some reason, I had a ability to figure out having not known much at the time, which jumper was out of place and which one needed to be put back into place. But these days, I'll tell you the truth, my my technological prowess has been depleted into almost nothingness. And technology is moving at such a an exponential rate, that it makes it difficult for my old foggy brain to to learn a new trick. So, you know, why don't you kind of give us a little bit about this current side of technology, and maybe some ways either that people can understand it, and actually do it. Because for me, like I understand the concepts of what they say too. Do but the technology and the integrations and the minutiae are so unique, that I find that I think that a lot of people are having trouble reaching their goals simply because of the technology that they don't know how to use rather than not having products or services that are valuable and worthy of people finding out about them.

Steve Prentice 5:23  

Absolutely. I mean, here's, here's number one, we've we've been going through extremely tough year, we're not out of the woods yet with regards to everything going on. And one of the major offshoots, aside from the tragedy of this year is job losses, and just people who have had real trouble just keeping afloat because of the changes in commerce. Now, one thing that I do say, and I was saying this, even before the COVID thing happened, was, there's never been a better time to be at work right now. But there's also never been a better time to be out of work. And that sounds like a cynical statement, but it's not intended to be. What I'm saying here is that there's never been a better time to find new work. And the mindset, you were talking about the old foggy brain a moment ago, and the mindset from, let's say, a couple of decades ago, with regards to what a job was, and what a career was, was largely focused on maybe staying with the same job for your entire career, staying employable within a company, we're now moving into an era where people of all ages are much more aware of their career mobility, we have the technologies, you know, the job sites, the websites, and the simple networking capacity for people to do so much more with themselves in terms of what they would like to do rather than what they think they should do. So it doesn't mean that it's easy, as you know, just a simple little thing. But it does mean that it's eminently possible for people to maintain their careers, move on to other jobs, take the non transferable skills that they have learned, and market themselves. We've seen job sites getting more intelligent over the years, matching people up with jobs and recruiters and so forth. But we've also got things like LinkedIn, which are largely underused, because people don't quite understand how to use LinkedIn. Everyone's sort of opened up a profile, they're stuck their resume there, and nothing really happened. But this is an example of a tool that can be used extremely proactively in the the art and science and magic of career self fulfillment. What I mean, for example, is you could go on and what I recommend to people to do always two key rules about LinkedIn. And there's no other platform that is similar to them to this for this opportunity for us. Number one is to make sure you have a great profile that describes you, what you do, what you can do what you have done, perhaps with a couple of endorsements from past managers, employers or customers, and to have a picture of yourself, I mean, I recommend some people may not want to do that for personal security reasons. But aside from that, you know, if you can put your picture up, you're immediately now connecting with people on the emotional and instinctive level, which is what my you know, my sort of primary focus of work is, I doesn't matter what you look like, it's just that I want to have a face that I can relate to. And this is where trust starts, when I can, I can see who I'm dealing with. So we're having a, a place on LinkedIn, that is you that is step number one. And step number two, is as you build your group of people, your contacts, and they're not accepting just anybody who asks to join, but the pedigree of your contacts based on people that you would recommend and trust, and you know them and respect them professionally. Once a day, once a day, you go on to LinkedIn, and you just see what LinkedIn tells you about your contacts who's celebrating a work anniversary today, who has just got a new job who has posted an Instagram in an article and just say, hey, congratulations, well done. Thumbs up. Because what you're doing when you do that, is you are warming your the memory of you in their minds and hearts and you are building what is the most significant and important asset to your career, which is your network, it doesn't mean that individual is going to hire you, per se, or you don't sort of say, hey, happy birthday, oh, by the way, please hire me or please buy my product, you just build a network. And this network is responsible for finding new opportunities for giving you references or leads. And also you can do the same for them. So all I'm saying is that back in the day before the LinkedIn existed, I would have been talking about this with regards to business card Rolodex is a collection of business cards that just having 10,000 business cards does not make you well connected, you're much better connected with a little black book of 100 names than a box of 1000 business cards. So in this era, the active and the proactive dynamic and artificially intelligent Lee enhanced concepts behind LinkedIn and I don't work for them by the way, I just simply saying this is what they can do for you is to further your connections in the world and open up those opportunities. So it doesn't matter how old you are. There's never been a better time to be looking for work. And I described this about myself. All the time, for 30 years I have been looking for work. problem is I keep finding it. And I find it because I just always keep in touch with the people who can refer me other business I have never advertised in my life, it can be done. And so what I'm saying is when you tie in to tech technology and people and old mindsets and new mindsets together, what you're seeing is, there's a remarkably great opportunity to take just a little bit, a little slice of what LinkedIn can offer and turn that into a key that opens the door for your future that you're much more in control of. And I think that's a very satisfying place to be. So that's one example. I'll pause for a second, but I have a second one coming up too. Well,

Ari Gronich 10:41  

I appreciate that. That's, it's good advice for people to remember that these platforms are really about relationship building versus, you know, cold selling.

Steve Prentice 10:54  

Absolutely. cold call selling was was a thing. Of course, we know that and some people still do it. I used to teach courses in sales to a big bank. And I was shocked. This is only about 20 years ago. And I was shocked that they were still using 1950s concepts called smile and dial you know you're performing, you just have a list of numbers you call them. And you expect a 98% rejection rate You're doing well, if you get two calls out of 100 that don't hang up on you. Now, is that really a way to do business? Wouldn't you rather have someone who says, Hey, I'm looking for a good accountant? Can you recommend one? And when a trusted friend of mine says yes, I know this person. Now I've got the word of mouth and the trust factor at a much higher level. And there are technologies that allow retailers to do that, for example, if you are a small business owner, a store owner, or if you own a larger store with lots of sales associates, what can you do to pull in the data that your customers may have entered into their profile on your website, talking about the things that they like what they love, so that when you do speak to them, you're speaking to them on a much higher level saying, Oh, yes, last time you were in the shop, you bought this, you know, these are examples. There's there's so many examples we could use that show this kind of connection between people. And it's been a difficult year for people who are now learning to work from home. And that's that's a big challenge not only for adults, but for school aged children as well. And one of the biggest problems that we see from a technological standpoint with people is security in terms of we hear all the stories all the time about companies getting breached, and data being leaked, and malware and ransomware. And hospitals being held hostage by this is terrible stuff. And so much of this comes from us humble humans, you know that most of the the bad stuff it gets into an organization isn't done through a sophisticated drilling technique. It's done by fooling us humans to let them in at the vampires in. So this means that we have to learn how to use passwords and passwords have been for the last 20 years. For a lot of people, it's going to be the names of their kids, the dogs their first school, the most common password to this day is something like password 123 or 123456. And even administrators who look after the computers for us, will so often use admin or admin 123 is their password to save time. It's a hassle trying to think about passwords. So my point is, well, why should it be? You know, first of all, it shouldn't really be up to us to have to do this. But unfortunately we do because we are the weak link in the chain, whether we're working from home or getting that email in the you know, in your inbox at work that says hey, click on this, it's a job application or it's a it's a COVID hygiene update, something like that, then we get fooled into clicking on the bad stuff. Now when it comes to managing passwords, we should never have to write another password. Again, there are password management software programs out there, which will generate passwords for you that are amazingly complicated. They're strings of letters and numbers and punctuation that you could never possibly memorize. Now, reason I'm saying this is because they do work, of course. But for the end user, there's a trust factor that says How can I let go of this thing. I'm comfortable maintaining passwords that I can remember, now you're asking me to give this over to a piece of software to use. And I'm letting go of the control of using these passwords. So this is the Rubicon, if you'd like the river that I have to get people over to say, to understand how password management software works, that you don't have to memorize them any longer. It will take care of this for you. Every time you log on to your favorite web page, it will log you in but nobody else can get in because these are too difficult to figure out. And they say oh, I couldn't possibly let go of this. I need to I need to have control over my passwords. So I say okay, quick little test here. Think about the third person on your contact list in your phone and tell me what their phone number is. And they'll say, I don't know. I just pull it up and it dials for me. And it's an aha so you're not worried about forgetting there. numbers because your phone will take care of it. And it's like, it's a bit like a gotcha moment to show that we have emerged into some areas where we have let go of the control and given it over to our machines, not in any way to lose control, but to share the control. And those are the kinds of fear concepts that I work with. So I'm not plugging in the individual password management brand, other than saying, everybody should use one, you know, choose the one that your trusted colleagues recommends. But you should not be using passwords. And you certainly should not be using, for example, honest answers to challenge questions like What was the name of your first high school, or what was the name of your first pet, because anybody who's a good troller, and cybercriminal, can find those things out from your Facebook profile or any other social thing. So we got to move away from an old school mindset that was good 2030 years ago. But now it's a matter of sharing the technology, sharing the intelligence and letting go a bit of the grunt work if you'd like, but feeling trust that you're still in control. So that's what I try to help people do is to recognize that these technologies do indeed work extremely well for us, they can make your career, your life, your finances are so much more satisfying and successful. But it does require a little bit of, you know, putting a toe in the water and trying these things out and seeing just what they can do for you.

Ari Gronich 16:23  

Got it. So that's cool. And we've got this situation going on right now in the world where the technology that we've been trusting to use and connect and network is beginning a systematic process of censorship and echo chamber algorithmic, you know, delivery systems that basically keep us inside of a bubble that is based on our preconceived notions. And, you know, we've we're basically in this very odd, strange place where most people don't even know where they've been taken to in the last 510 years. And on the level of both technology and organizational psychology, that psychology part of how does one, you know, kind of step out of the matrix, so to speak, and yet still utilize the matrix for the benefit that it's that is there without falling into the traps of it?

Steve Prentice 17:36  

A two word answer critical thinking, people need to regain their capacity to think critically and think for themselves. What has happened over the last couple of decades is we have moved from a thinking society to exactly as you said, which is an echo chamber in which people seek out the news and the truth that matches their current biases. That could be a freedom of expression type concept, really, I want to seek out the news source that matches my political ideology. Okay, that's fair enough. But as a sort of a side story to illustrate this point. I come from England originally, and a lot of people who visit England are surprised, or at least they were in again in previous years, how well educated the taxi drivers seem to be, you know, you can have a conversation with a cab driver in London, and that person will tell you anything and everything about whatever you want to know. In fact, comedian George Burns once said, you know, it's amazing that taxi drivers and barbers aren't running the world because they seem to know so much about everything. But what it came down to was an education system not just only in the UK, but just just in the times where it was okay to learn stuff more than just simply what was there for your job. You know, you might say, Why does a taxi driver need to know about the the civil war you know, the US revolution, anything like that Revolutionary War, knowledge is a powerful thing, the enjoyment of knowledge, the learning, the capacity to think and see both sides is the kind of stuff that has been lost as we have channeled our way into exactly that individual channels of enjoyment. You know, every member of your family may be watching different TV shows on different TVs are on their devices, so there's no opportunity for collective discussion, it's a matter of just simply slurping in the stuff that you want to see. So honestly, if you want to break free of the echo chamber without endangering, but instead of actually perhaps strengthening your political beliefs or ideologies, whatever they happen to be, we have to have a critical thinking the capacity to think and question things, see both sides and then come to a conclusion. This by the way, our is something that the future of work specialists are speaking about all the time, you know, no matter what line of business you want to be in, whether it's in mechanical trade or in in high tech or in US professional service of some sort. The future of work is going to be based around a human skills such as critical thinking, and empathy and it can capacity to listen actively to others, because certain of our skills will be swallowed up by AI technologies. And they're getting better at certain jobs like travel agents, and so forth. Now, you can do it all online, as you know. But what's going to make us as individuals still valuable, is as we surf the career waves looking for what we want to do, the ability to do those very human and subtle concepts, such as once again, thinking critically. This means going back to our previous concept that when you get an email coming into your inbox that might be from me from Steve says, Hey, you know, click on this thing, it's a really great piece of instruction on how to do better COVID hygiene in your office, you pause and say, wait a second, is that really from Steve, should I really click on this? It's stopping and thinking rather than just rushing headlong into everything on a reactionary level. And I want to add one more thing to that, if I may. We are working with technologies that are primary light source based technologies, you know, we're looking at screens and the computers in our phones. And this is not tinfoil hat thinking here, it's quite straightforward is that your optical system, your brain and your eyes are designed to process information that is pretty analog and are based on reflected light, you know, pen and paper, just stuff that you can see. So when you start getting into stuff that it's coming at you from a light source, it is actually routed through the brain differently. And that's one of the reasons why it's so hard to resist wanting to respond to an email message or a text message. It's not the nature of the message, it is actually how it impacts your nervous system to say this is urgent, you must deal with it right now. And so we combine therefore, again, a micro channeling of information, you know, by choosing the the channels that match your current mindset, with the fact that we are still slaves to biological reflexes that haven't caught up with the technologies that we have at our disposal. And so we respond to them in disproportionately urgent ways. And together, these things have created a kind of a perfect storm, stopping people from really being able to think clearly as individuals. And so that would be my long winded answer. For us. That's the approach we need to take, once again, the solution is within us. It's easy, and it's free. But it does require that we focus back again on the capacity to think critically, from one or two or 10 sides of an argument and pull in as much information as possible before moving forwards. And those who seek to do this, again, it becomes one of those intangible but highly valuable skills that can be applied to all kinds of businesses and jobs moving forward.

Ari Gronich 22:37  

Yeah, so in my book, a new tomorrow, I talk a lot about critical thinking common sense and recognizing the butterfly effector cause and effect in general, and how the consequences to our actions don't just stop with the direct consequences, but there's a consequence to the consequences to the consequence to the consequences and etc. And in some ways, we need to get back to a place where common sense critical thinking is common again, because right now, it's it's not common. But at the same time, I also talk about the things like the poisons that are in our air and our water, and the neurotoxic abilities of those that chemistry to affect whether we can cognitively thinking critically think as well as we used to be or if that's being suppressed via some of those chemicals. And like one of those chemicals is fluoride in our water does absolutely zero good. But it was originally used by the war machine in in Germany, to control the minds of the soldiers so that they were easily programmable. And all of a sudden, like mid 1940s, all of a sudden, we're putting it now in our water here in the United States and claiming that it's going to help with our teeth when we know that scientifically speaking, you have to have a different form of fluoride, and it has to be a direct application of this different form in order for to do any benefit for our teeth. But that's not the only thing that's a neurotoxin, that's kind of causing this situation of lack of critical thinking, lack of common sense. What have you found as a psychologist, you know, basically, difference between 20 years ago and today in the ability to have common sense and critical thinking in the population. Have you have you found that it's had a significant drop or a minor drop Are you know, What have you found,

Steve Prentice 25:01  

I don't see that it's had a drop or an increase, I think we have just simply expanded logarithmically the volume of everything. If you go back 20 3040 100 years, you're still gonna have organizations that have a vested interest in suppressing the truth. You know, they're Photoshop, you know, is a new technology, but faking photographs has been around since photographs existed, the concepts like fluoride, or sodium in the water, suppressing the information for situations like Love Canal, and other places where, you know, lots of industrial dumping went on. Organizations have always continued to suppress the capacity to find the truth and not saying suppress the truth, but suppress people's capacity to find the truth. You know, in the era where we had three or four major television channels, and we had trusted news readers like Walter Cronkite, it was, that was the target was was how to manage that particular narrow flow of information. But now, in this age, of course, you know, as we've seen, with the rise of some large social media platforms, anybody can post anything and and basically generate a circle of followers very, very easily. So the the problem has magnified exponentially, as you know, and in league with the opportunities for us to use the technologies for our own devices. So yeah, it really hasn't changed, you know, in terms of additional subtraction, just simply expansion. But I always say that the everybody's got the the the knowledge of the world at their fingertips, literally, I mean, your phone can find you anything you want to find. just choosing one source of knowledge is going to, once again, keyhole you into one particular line of thinking. So we have that opportunity to think critically using our devices to say, Okay, if someone tells me about a particular city or town or situation going on how many areas how many different directions Can I actually find that information from and you know, come to my own educated conclusion. So no, I haven't seen it change, I just seen it, expand in scope, if you learn to me and same level, just louder, and but we now have much more opportunity to fix that problem as individuals. And it's quite a pleasurable experience just going online and seeing what I can learn from different sources before coming to a conclusion.

Ari Gronich 27:17  

Yeah, I just want to add that those different sources probably should be different than, you know, starting differently than just the search engine of Google or just Yahoo, or just being or just any specific search engine, because I know, my my stepdaughter is, is in college. And she does a lot of research and show look something up on Google and get completely different responses than if she looks it up on DuckDuckGo. Or being or one of the other search engines. And so, you know, let's talk a little bit about why it might be, you know, people have prescribed an agenda to Google, and an agenda to certain search engines and certain algorithms that they think is a cute, you know, conspiracy from some, you know, outside source that controlling the inside, right. But can it is it? Is it just that or is it what what makes that algorithm for Google completely different than the search results that you might get on a being or Yahoo or DuckDuckGo? And why is it important to to look on all of those versus just one?

Steve Prentice 28:45  

Well, the the algorithm of Google when it first when Larry Page and Sergey Brin were at the at the helm of it completely was remarkably different from those that hadn't before, which were largely keyword based. Their algorithm was based on all kinds of the number of connections and and sort of back back connections between, you know, links between websites, it was incredibly brilliant at the time. And I can't confess to knowing what they're doing with it right now. I mean, things like Google and Amazon have grown into enormous, enormous world changing beasts and the number of things they have going. It just boggles the mind literally. But But again, I always want to stop and say, Well, you know, who's a who's on the board of directors of any of these organizations. And I'm not pointing to anyone in particular, but who is now guiding the overall philosophy of this group. Because that's obviously with any organization or company how you're going to sway the the slant is is, who your directors are and who the shareholders are responding to. So something like Google Of course, it has become the industry leader of searching something it has the honor of becoming a verb, which is the the big definition here is go and Google something now, however, are there other resources and I tell people once again, I mean, when you look at these sort of the big, big top five social things, I always talk about Twitter. And I get some eye rolling because people think all they've ever seen about Twitter is certain, you know, high profile individuals abusing it for their own purposes. And yes, there's a lot of junk and a lot of offensive material on Twitter. But there's also a lot of really good people that I thought leaders intelligent people in your industry you know, even if you are working in something that you don't think is high tech, let's say you're a carpenter, you build you do floors, hardwood flooring, okay? What can I possibly learn from Twitter about hardwood flooring? Well, there are people out there who are talking about trends and design new techniques and procedures for treating woods and so forth. These are thought leaders, and they're not necessarily going to be putting up a big website, or even their own podcast, they're going to be just simply posting a thought here or there. So one of the best ways of micro learning because lifelong learning is one of these key future steps to think about as well. Lifelong Learning doesn't mean taking courses all the time, it's also about taking five minutes to read the tweets of these thought leaders who have chosen to follow. So ignore the 10 billion other people who are saying stupid stuff and just focus on 10 or 20. People who are thought leaders, researchers, people, you'd want to meet at a at a conference, let's say, and just see what they're saying about your industry or about something peripheral to that industry. That is where knowledge can come from as an ultimate source to running through the Google matrix or any other search engine metrics, find those leaders who don't have a vested interest in being found on Google, they just simply exploring the world their own way. One of my favorites is the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. I mean, I'm not a marine biologist, I just happen to love nature in the water, I just love oceans and ocean life as as just from a lay person's perspective. So I love reading some of the scientists who go down in the diving submarines and just look around and so forth. It's very, very enlightening, but also enjoyable, even though I have no desire to become a marine biologist. So those are people on my special list, and I enjoy learning, just learning peripherally peripherally, from what they have to share. So micro learning opportunities in places that aren't, let's say structured and guided, the way that perhaps the major search engines might be is one opportunity. Once again, just looking for a doing searching by keywords across not only the standard search engines, but there are sort of micro search engines within universities or looking deeper, it'd be on page one, into what else is out there. It's obvious that the internet is the easiest way to do this. It's at your table, it's right there physically at your fingertips, rather than going to a library or taking the course somewhere. But once again, just a matter of spreading out the searching not only a sort of outbound searching by typing in keywords, but more importantly, inbound searching by reading articles.

I like for example, Google news alerts. And even though that's going back to Google, I can set up some news alerts with keywords. And it will bring in stories from the the news wires that are of importance to me, but there because I've that I've set up those search terms rather than going through their actual algorithms. So I guess bottom line is to cast your net wide, but don't simply rely on search engines and their collected wisdom that way, but search out those people, if I read an essay that has been posted by somebody who I'm following on Twitter, now I'm reading their white paper, their documents, and that's moving me into another world of knowledge that Google may not have caught up with yet. So that's what I would say is just just diversify your intellectual portfolio by just looking for people thought leaders, once again, it's the human connection that I think is going to drive people further and give you whether it's just directly applicable knowledge or peripherally peripherally applicable knowledge, or just simply connections to other people. That's that's the true dividend of being connected online, I think.

Ari Gronich 33:57  

Cool. So I'm gonna ask you to contradict yourself a little bit, but not really, which is why Does somebody want magazines and newspapers and the printed word to stay printed versus just be online or audio

Steve Prentice 34:19  

printed word has a far greater impact on your brain than does do the same words on screen much further. The reason I said before, the pace by which your eyes and brain process information is far more in line with analog than with digital. So you can read the same essay or the same article on screen as you could with a paper version as well and you will retain more from that paper version. This is just a nature of how your our brains are constructed. So I would very much be in favor of of sitting down and reading something on paper. As much as I am a technical enthusiast. I just think that's a great way of really pulling information in at the pace that you want. Obviously, there's a sidebar to that. In fact, the most things that are published are published by once again, multinational media companies who have a vested interest in you buying stuff, I mean, when only had to look has to look at all the magazines you could possibly buy in a, you know, brick and mortar bookstore, there's just so many special interest magazines. But there is an actual haptic tangible pleasure for many people in thumbing through a magazine is a different interaction completely from being on screen. And even younger people who have grown up completely surrounded by the information online, can recognize that there's a tangible difference when actually sitting down and reading a magazine or a book. So it's always going to be people's personal choice. It's obviously much more expensive to create and manufacture, hardcopy, and it's also less ecologically sound to do so. But from an information processing perspective, it is it is a few marks above, in terms of its efficacy as a deliverer of information.

Ari Gronich 36:04  

Yeah, so you know, I look at things like what you're saying, economical, you know, benefits to not printing, because of that extra resource. But then I saw a statistic about how much electricity it takes for you to do one single Google search. And the amount of energy it takes for a single Google search was exponential, comparatively to the call of nature of paper, especially if you went back to some of the sustainable sources of paper, like hemp paper, and things like that. So it's an interesting conundrum, I believe that we are trying to do things that are good for nature, we're trying to create more sustainability and sustainable practices. But we end up creating situations where we literally are doing the exact opposite of the intention. And this is a place for critical thinking and common sense to start playing in. And I'll give a really quick example of that, and that is the original Prius, and I'm not sure if they changed this or not, but they were, you know, digging the nickel mines in Canada. And then they would ship those raw nickel, you know, material to China, on oil driven, you know, ship barges, and then they would have to go and do all of the taking of that material and turning it into and processing it into the battery, and then it would ship somewhere else for them to actually start to assemble. And that was another layer of waste and lack of sustainability. And so, by the time a Prius got back to the States, it had gone back and forth, I think a few times or parts of it had and you had already consumed. I think it was four or five times more. And I don't remember the numbers Exactly. But the the amount of lifetime value of the savings of the electric benefit, right. And it's also given rise to this massive industry of electric vehicles, which could one day be more sustainable than they are expendable or more than were expending. So is the benefit and does they outweigh the benefit outweigh the loss is the the consequence to the action? Right? And the consequences to those actions? Are they relative and sustainable? And when it comes to profit, does the profit really matter? If we're talking about human lives and the ability to live on a planet that we've been kind of raping?

Steve Prentice 39:35  

Well, there's there's two big questions there, he said is that one is actually sustainable. And the other one is, does the profit concept really matter? With regards to sustainability, it's a horse race, obviously, I mean, ultimately, if you could sort of say that the all those electric cars will eventually get manufactured more locally, or if they do need to be shipped across the world. They'll be shipped on on boats that are maybe wind powered. There are New, you know, sales like sale based freighters out already. You could you could see that the leveling of that particular curve over time as all the technologies that support the manufacturer, that electric car, and all of the the grid supports the electrical charging, including your own capacity to recharge from your home using the solar powers and solar panels rather.

If we can win that horrible horse race, then yes, I think you can move ahead and generations to come would look back on the 19th and 20th centuries as a dark ages unto itself. But when you look back on the Dark Ages prior to this, or even in the 17 1800s, during the Industrial Revolution, where there were smokestacks belching out coal and wood effluent everywhere, we've come a long way from burning anything in sight to make heat and make power and horses dropping their stuff all over the all over the place. And the diseases that came from that sewage systems, you know, just the infrastructure that we have, has brought us a long way from the dirt. We were scrabbling around with just a mere 300 years ago. So can we do it? Can we get to that utopia where these things are actually making a net gain in terms of ecological sustainability? Yes, but are we going to do it in time? Or? That's the big question because people may scoff at the concept of when when the scientists once again say the average temperature is going up by two degrees Celsius. And everyone says, what, two degrees Celsius big deal, that means nothing. And the scientists themselves have admitted perhaps they were wrong in the way they marketed that because when they say two degrees, they're talking about an average global average. So countries like Australia or, or places like California may be burning themselves to the ground. And that's raising temperatures on one extreme there. And there are extremes of cold happening elsewhere. And so they average it out. That's again, the problem with scientists and technologists as they are way too literal, and they expect the rest of the world to follow that. So that's an average guys, which means that there's a lot of up and down happening. So is it sustainable, maybe if we can beat the the kind of landslide we have created in in in warming the earth jus to not only carbon effluence of our own, but you know, as the as the ice is retreating, of course it's releasing methane in the ground. It is cutting back on the Earth's capacity to reflect light so there's all these ancillary ways in which we're heating the earth is not all industry. But to your second point, you know, is this profitable to do this? I'm always kind of amazed when I watch the the it's not only in the states of course but around the world the the the big oil and the big industry bigwigs who fight tooth and nail against progress because they have too much money to be made still in oil and coal. And I wonder if they were to turn their their manufacturing processes into creating solar and tidal power, they could still make money there there's a profit margin there too, if that was it, and that is the thing that motivates most people, sadly, is that we are a we are a predatory species we are there to to beat our way to the top of the human pile as well as you know, just just to survive that there's no question that we are a predatory species so the profit motive will never die away. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'm saying that will never die away because it is just fundamental to human instinct to survive and thrive and if I have a billion dollars and you have zero Well too bad for you, I've got my world community and I'm safe and that is again I'm not in not condoning that or agreeing with it. But it is a fundamental principle of survival. So the profit margin will not go away but it's very easy to turn around and say well you can make as much money building wind farms as you can drilling into the ground and fracking all the all the limestone you there's ways you can generate renewable energies, why not simply transfer that and that's that's what I have a hard time grasping. I mean, I know when I'm on level why they do it, but it's it's not like everyone says, Okay, let's stop drilling oil. And you guys just just twiddle your thumbs for 100 years? No, there's there's a lot of things they could do to replace that. And these technologies are emerging. Wind turbines Do not kill bald eagles by the millions. But even with new technologies and turbines do not have to spin around like big blades that are wavy ones that look like the ripple fins of a jellyfish or a cuttlefish that wiggle around the oscillates rather than rotate. So can we do this? Boy, that's not what I want to put any money on because we are in a horse race against the the ecology and the the the climate change that is inevitably happening here is undoubtedly happening. But if we can turn it around to speak the language of profits, because hand in hand with profit motive, of course, his political motive people want their voters to continue to vote for them. This is again, every country in the world that has vote Democrat democracy or a parent democracy, so they're not going to want to lay off 100,000 oil wells. occurs, because that gets remembered during an election. So the politicians themselves must also come on board with this, I'm seeing a slow shift towards this. But the matter is, is that shift that is slow, sufficiently fast to get us out of this this pincer movement that's happening between us and the ecology. So it's, it's a big long way of saying, I'm not quite sure.

Ari Gronich 45:24  

I appreciate that. And, and I'm going to ask you another one you might not be so sure about, but is there something other than money, that, psychologically would be more important for a profit because you can profit with money, or you can profit with, you know, a purpose? Meaning that you have a purpose and the purpose reaches its its goal? And so where is the money on the scale of motivation? You know, if you're looking at motivating factors, profit might be here, is there something above financial profit or not, because we already know that people are below financial profit in most people's value books, so or at least in in the way that we've arranged our society.

Steve Prentice 46:26  

To my understanding, the only thing higher than profit as a goal is power. And when you look at people who have more money than they could possibly spend, you know, their grandchildren or possibly spend, the next thing they seek is power, political power. And that is inevitable. I mean, I like reading books on history from the last few centuries, because none of what's happening right now is new. It's happened over and over again. You know, we had a pandemic in 1918, almost 100 years ago. Some of the extreme right wing movements that are happening, happened 100 years ago, they happen 300 years ago, the madness of crowds, which is an actual title of a book, popular delusions and the madness of crowds, is all about how crowds do sort of come together around a concept. And then they whip that up into a frenzy that becomes a movement. And this again, has happened over the centuries over tulip bulbs and over all kinds of either profit making ventures in the New World, or the fear of witchcraft, or the fear of communism, or now the fear of cryptocurrency and blockchain, it's, it's all the same, the same kind of thing, that there's a collective fear that comes from the contagion of emotion that people share. So I don't think the profit is ever going to go away as the as the primary motivator for all of human undertakings. Many who disagree with that point, there's a lot of selfless people out there, there's a lot of those who are working, almost, you know, working themselves to death to save lives right now. Yes, on an individual level, but when you look collectively at any country that has millions of people, and it has a leader, the leaders tend to evolve, or ones that are focused primarily on profits, and on the power that comes from that. And when you look at countries that had had a strong socialist base, some of the Scandinavian countries, for example, and Canada, there's, there's a social safety net, and so on. It's a wonderful thing to have. But it's still not looked upon with great trust by the majority of the world, it just seems to wrong. So I would love to be wrong. On this point, I would love for humanity as a whole to come back to I think what a lot more of our ancestors are First Nations people in all countries that had that symbiosis with nature, and recognized how we all can exist together, I'd love for us to go back to some sort of mindset from that. But this particular Millennium has been focused right from, you know, at 1000, right through to now has been focused just on pure, just just getting as fast and as far as you can, and reaping the profits along the way. So I don't see that ending anytime soon. So any solutions have to be built into that language? And there's little bits of cracks of light here and there that we're seeing, but it is quite the struggle.

Ari Gronich 49:19  

Yeah, you know, it's interesting to me, because I look at I look at the world and and I'm kind of disappointed that people haven't quite figured out that we made this stuff up that this is all a figment of our collective imagination. And they can choose to have the outcomes that we currently have, or we can choose to create different outcomes if we get brave enough to change the constructs of how we've constructed the society. And so just on that psychological level, I you know, I'm I'm curious about that power versus profit or profit, leading to power being the ultimate motivation, because I'm not sure that I've met too many people that truly want power over another person. And so I feel like like there might be a conversation about how somebody can get power over themselves, without having to have power over somebody else. So that they can become that fulfill, you know, have that fulfillment of having that power. And I think that most attempts at power over other people are because they feel like they have no power over themselves.

Steve Prentice 50:55  

It's very possible. Indeed, I think when you look at any cross section of political leaders in any country, you're seeing exactly that people who perhaps weren't able to have power over themselves. And so they do pursue that that other path to have power over others. There's there's a, it's a mindset, they're about justifying your existence by having power over others. And you don't need to have a country of 300 million people, we're all 300,000,001 of the presidents and they want to have that power, you only need a few to climb that particular ladder. But I think going back to one of our earlier points, if you want to have power over yourself, you want to have a sense of self fulfillment and destiny, and just being able to drive your life the way you'd like it. Yes, I think that is eminently in anybody's hands. And once again, the the capacity we have for career management's and for just being aware of what's available out there in the world, that allows you to step out from under a shadow of fear that you may have whoever's holding power over you. Now the question becomes, why are they holding power over you now? And what can you do about it? So what number one is going to be your employer because you fear losing your job? Okay, well, remember that fear, there are two sides to the human existence, which is central to this, this statement here, we have an emotional side and a rational side. And the emotion side always wins. And the most powerful emotion of all, is fear. So fear is going to guide people and drive people to do things. When you look at the the masking controversy, you know, people who want to wear masks or don't want to wear masks in this particular situation. Those who do wear masks have recognized the logic of the the the transmission barrier that a mask provides. Those who do not largely are either fearing an invasion of their privacy or doubting it's the masks capacity, or fearing the reality that the mask symbolizes of the current pandemic that we're in is a big, big thing. We go down in that particular rabbit hole, but it's all about fear. So we have the fear of all kinds of things in the world. And so my question becomes, how can we now step out from under our own shadow of fear? And use logic to say, what can I fix about this? If I'm afraid of my boss, and I'm afraid of getting fired. So I work 18 hours a day, I do everything that is asked of me, because I fear getting fired. I'm going to say, Okay, let's change that fear. I wrote a I'm not plugging my book. But I just wanted to share the title that I wrote a book called work like a wolf. And the reason I wrote the book called work like a wolf is because when you compare wolves to dogs, wolves know how to find the next meal, they know how to go out there and hunt down their next meal. Dogs, my love, I have to have my own. But dogs have been domesticated, they traded their, their freedom for a regular meal and a warm place to sleep. So they wait to get fed. But a wolf has always got to keep his or her hunting instincts sharp to find out where their next opportunity is going to come from. When people can turn that on with themselves. So rather than being afraid of being fired, I want to say, I'm not afraid of being fired. I want to I want to build in myself my capacity of knowing what my skills are, where I can sell them and what I can do to always feel that I am in control, I have the power of myself career wise, by not being afraid of being fired. So that would be one of my answers to you there is power of oneself comes from learning what is causing you fear, and learning, recognizing how that fear dominates us purely physiologically and psychologically. And then saying, Okay, how can I eliminate that fear through facts? How can I find the facts to neutralize the fear? If I fear getting fired? Okay, what can I do to avoid getting fired? Well, I can learn more skills, I can learn more relationship management with the people around me, but I can also ensure my future by knowing what else is out there and how I can find it. And I really strongly believe everyone deserves to do that even if you're in a highly specific line of work that requires a factory if it let's say you're an aircraft engine mechanic. Great, you know, you can't open up your own competitor to Boeing. But you can find out what else is out there for aircraft manufacturers to, to, to sell their skills on. And similar to that, look at personal financial management, how to eliminate debt, how to pay down or eliminate credit card debts and all the things that at least in my generation, we were never taught in school never taught financial literacy. So learn how to take control of your own money. So you're no longer afraid of debt collectors, or banks and credit ratings and stuff like that. There's a lot of stuff much like the whole fluoride thing you were saying before that has been kind of implanted in US culturally, I was never taught about mortgages or credit cards, and I went to school.

In fact, I remember that you had to be 21. And you had to qualify to get your first credit card. This is not so long ago, it was maybe 25 years ago. But now of course, you can get them they sent to you all the time. So the point is, learn about career management, learn about financial management, by taking control of those two things alone, you now step out from under the shadow of fear, and you start that particular an individual path of self power, power over self power over your own life. Nobody can fire you if you are able to sell your job or sell your skills somewhere else. And I'm saying that somewhere else exists, it exists. And then once again, it's at your fingertips to find it. Cool. So

Ari Gronich 56:27  

on that psychological level of fear, versus the psychological level of hope. I find that in my experience with people fear typically beats out hope. So what are some techniques that somebody can who's listening, can actualize can do when the fear of something has outweighed the hope. And they see and it stops them in their tracks.

Steve Prentice 57:13  

Once again, a short answer, write it down. I know that sounds weird to say it. But when you get the things that are circling in your head that are causing you fear, so long as they stay in your head, you will not be able to to slay those dragons, you have to get them physically out so you can see them. And here's what we have different kinds of memory in the body and the mind, we have short term memory long term memory and physical muscle memory, the thing that reminds you, you know, which which drawer which which which cupboard your coffee cup is, and you just simply open it by by default, you drive by physical by muscle memory, largely long term memory is where most of our memories are stored for most of our lives. The short term memory, however, is very limited. The two most people will say about eight items at one time. So if I was to dictate a 10 item list for you to go out and buy some stuff for me, without writing it down somewhere, you'd be lucky. If you remember eight, then if you get a phone call along on the way you'll be lucky if you remember to or even which store you're going to because your short term memory has been used up, it's been flushed, it's like the ram of a computer. So when you're wrestling with fear with problems with worry, the the more they circle around in that short term memory, there is no space for anything else to come in. So I always tell people, this is therapy, right? Whether it's self therapy, where you use a surface like paper, or a dry erase board or a smartboard on a conference call video conference. Or you use the vessel that is a counselor or a psychologist or therapist, someone who takes those thoughts and holds them for you. No matter what vessel or surface you use, you get these things out. Because when you get them out, number one, you can see them, you can see them again, you vet them from the outside and you reprocess them, which allows you to think them through even further. But secondly, you give your short term memory permission to let go of them. It actually won't forget them The moment you stop trying to remember them. That's ironically weird. But that's the one forget it as soon as you stop trying to remember. But it allows you now to work on the next level of solving your own problems. So when you go to a counselor or a psychologist, that person should not tell you what to do. I mean a physician, a doctor might prescribe something for you, a psychiatrist might prescribe a medicine or a technique for you. But psychologists and therapists are supposed to ask you how did this make you feel? You know, what do you think about this and pull out the the answers from you so you can solve your own problems with their guiding hands to help you along the way. So my answer once again is for people who are stuck in this this storm of worry and fear. The best way to get out of that is to write these things physically down somewhere. The act of writing especially handwriting as opposed to typing will give your brain the chance, as I said to look at it vetted, question it again. And create the space for the next thoughts and ideas to come in. And on a larger scale, if you're dealing with a problem that you wish to share with others, or if it's a work related problem, a crisis or an opportunity to innovate on a new product, same thing, get it out on a surface where everyone can see it, because then you're also going to benefit from the collective wisdom and experience of others in the room, the sum becomes greater than the parts when they can all see things. But the longer you keep things bottled up inside your head, the longer the problem will live with you. So that's my short answer is just write it down.

Ari Gronich 1:00:33  

Awesome, thank you. So what other kinds of things do you like to chat about when it comes to the collision of technology and people? What you know, what do you think of the idea that we soon are going to be part human part technology?

Steve Prentice 1:00:56  

Oh, we already are, I think I mean, we are. So imagine leaving your house and forgetting your phone. Oh, my goodness, I gotta go back. Gotta go get it. So we are part human part technology, you can't live without your phone. I remember one, sort of public speaker, psychologist type person doing this, it's something I would never do for a live audience. But he actually went and collected people's phones from the audience and watching the fear in their eyes when they lost this cherished device. So I think that ship has already sailed, we have, we have the greatest advice ever known to humankind. Isaac Asimov once said, The perfect machine is something with no moving parts. And that's what we have here is that a phone, you know, which is only one small part of your smartphone has no moving parts, per se, it could be anything you want it to be in terms of the apps that are available. So we have learned to create great tools, you know, hugely powerful thing much on on line with invention of steam power, and or even just meat, being able to make fire, you know, this, these are really great advances. So I want to see how we can make those, again, serve humanity in better ways. And one of the best ways I have found is in education. There's a concept that I love following called flipped schooling. And looking at all the young people out there, and especially when you keep track of the innovations that are happening with people who are 13 years old, or 19 years old, just just young people who've just come up with these amazing ideas, because they're there, they're not yet under the yoke of their employer and other particular restraints. They have brilliance that the traditional schooling system in most countries has, has always credit keep channeled into like a sausage factory, just move people through and push them out the other end, the flipped schooling, if you haven't heard of that before, have you heard of that before? You know, No, I haven't. Okay, so So what it is essentially is, you know, you and I went to school, you're the teacher would tell you a bunch of stuff boring in the way that the teachers taught back then, and send you home with a big bunch of homework, and you got to work this stuff through by yourself on the kitchen table, trying to figure out what the heck you just learned, flipped schooling, says, Okay, let's take those two things and turn them around. So we send students home with, let's say, videos, videos that are not not just your average YouTube video, but carefully created videos on a topic, let's say maybe it is a math topic that's visual and a bit more better explaining how a math topic works. So you learn that stuff on your own time at home, then you go back to class. And that's when you can capitalize on the teacher's knowledge to work through what you're trying to understand. Because learning is not about just hearing words, it's about massaging them into your brain and your soul in a way that will will stay and become something useful. So if I learn about, let's say, a component of algebra, or trigonometry, or geometry, or whatever, then I can go back to class during the day and ask the teacher What do you mean by this? Or how would it apply to that, I can now leverage the teacher's knowledge and skills to add to this sort of static knowledge I learned in the evening. So flipped schooling, paired with the fact that we are living in the era of the audience of one now that your educational requirements, your attention span, your personality type are going to be different from mine. If you're a Type A and I'm a Type B, we're going to learn differently. If you're a morning person, and I'm a night owl, we're going to learn differently. If I've got to look after three kids in a single parent household, and someone else gets to drive home to, you know, a much more luxurious thing, we're going to learn differently. So schooling should be that schooling should be as tailored and as individualized as your personal account is at your bank when you go online to be served as you as already not as one of a customer base. So I love the idea of flipping around the education prospect not only for school aged kids, but for adults, adult learners too, in a way that fits their individual learning style, their schedule, but more importantly, that you leverage the wisdom of the teacher by using what they can share with you to apply to those facts you have now heard rather than the teacher being a simple messenger of basic facts. So that exists To me enormously, I think that the opportunity for people to learn not only in the wealthy countries of the world, but as Internet access is being delivered to the much poor areas of the world, such as Africa and India and places like that, you're going to see a lot more people suddenly be able to grasp and use the intelligence they were born with, or that they can generate through these technologies. It's a great equalizer. But I think for humanity, it's going to be a lot more interesting and beneficial as these gates open up, because technology makes it possible. But I think it starts once again by retooling the approach to learning to become more human, and just using the technological and human resources of the learning process in the appropriate proportions.

Ari Gronich 1:05:47  

Okay, so I'm going to go back to my previous question. And that's about humans becoming more robotic, and having technology more embedded in their systems like say, you know, things that trigger your brain to perform better things that nanotechnology, I'm talking about the things that will live inside of us, not the things that we can bring along or leave, you know, like a phone. Because, you know, there are some of us who like to divorce our phones every now and then, and we'll, you know, take time off from them, and so on. And we have that ability, but we may not for very long have the ability to shut off the things that are, you know, possibly going to be implanted into us, I know, there's a lot of fear going on out there that we're going to be implanted with devices that will tell people whether we've had vaccines or not, whether we you know, we've been in contact with somebody or not where you know, that GPS, and contact traces at all times, things like that. So that's more of the issues that I'm looking at, as far as that question goes, is, are we going to recognize what we choose to do to ourselves, so to speak? Or, and, and are we going to be able to put in any safeguards that stop, you know, bad actors from becoming bad actors with that kind of technology?

Steve Prentice 1:07:25  

I think it would be possible to divorce yourself from technology, it would be a lot of work. I know, I know, people personally who have paid to have every mention of them on the internet removed. I'm not sure if that's something we have to do every year because things will grow. Is it possible? I don't think it's possible. I think it's also again, a ship that has sailed. I mean, you could say I do not carry a phone, I will not carry a phone. Okay, fine. But just walking down your street, you'll be recorded probably by about six or seven or 10. doorbell cameras, as you go by. There's very little we can do in our world right now that isn't being recorded some house, I think it's a matter of what degree you wish to divorce yourself from the technologies themselves. When you go to make a buy your groceries. Okay, you can do it online, which more people are doing this year, of course,

Ari Gronich 1:08:15  

yeah. So I'm just going to go back to I get that we are embedded in our technology on a outside of us basis, but most people don't have electronic or AI driven hearts, they don't have eyes that are like Google eyes that or contact lenses embedded in their, you know, in their eyeballs, giving them the access to what the story is that they're walking next to because it's connected to the GPS. We don't have those things yet, but they are coming. Those are things that have been in the works and so I'm not necessarily concerned with the things that we can do currently at the moment to stop ourselves from being using the technology I'm talking about the the time period when this ramp up becomes we are part machine part human. Because if we don't do that, that you know the things to make our brains work better. We're not we're going to fall behind in school if we don't do the things that are going to make our eyesight better. We're going to fall behind in the world of human beings. I'm talking about kind of Gatica you know that movie Gatica with Ethan Hawke those kinds of times when the human being has been genetically modified, and technologically modified to become this part man part robot thing. Right? Yeah, that's where that's where the fear lies. The fear doesn't lie so much and using the phone Some people yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about go go further with me on that journey of fear and technology colliding with people. Yeah.

Steve Prentice 1:10:14  

Well, I mean, first of all, I will admit, I'm all for that. I don't have any particular worries about it. Personally, I think about pacemakers, for example, that have been around for a while. I think about for example, that diabetics no longer have to prick their fingers to to check their their blood count, they can now do it by waving their phone at their embedded device in their arm. I think yes, there's a slippery slope upwards in terms of other things in terms of memory enhancements, or movement enhancements that that are maybe even microscopic and level, or things that go down to delivering medications through your arteries and self propelled miniature submarines. This is not I'm not making this up, there are teeny tiny miniature submarines that can can deliver Kleenex or chemical medicines to your your body based on propelling themselves through your arteries. According to an internal navigation system. I think that stuff is incredible. And I think it's just part of a long line of of evolutionary techniques, we have learned from the days that we first learned to lift a bone and use it as a club. So I don't see it stopping anywhere. I think that once again, the the the wider knowledge base of golf companies and individuals who can create these for human good is something that will continue to exist. And you could say they could be used for nefarious purposes, too. But the more this has democratized, the more this is opened up to numerous sources, it's not coming from a single source, even with the whole vaccine, we're discussing at this point in history, right now, there's like four or five different companies providing vaccines for the COVID outbreak. So it's not like it's one channel that's come through the government, that's going to implant people with a vaccine that causes consternation amongst a large segment of the population. So Gosh, I think I'm in favor of it. I think it's just simply part of human evolution, technology is becoming more and more reliable. So it isn't like you've got a battery in there, that's going to stop one day, you've got components that are going to build your capacities. And I think that's a that just speaks to the fundamental urge to evolve, and using tools to evolve as part of our nature. So I hope I'm not avoiding your your answer, but I think it's great. And I look forward to seeing more of it.

Ari Gronich 1:12:29  

I saw I got your opinion, but and your opinion is awesome. And the question is more about the psychology and the fear that is associated with it, the understanding of the fear associated with it, because people listening are, you know, some are going to be really excited about the possibility of being, you know, superhuman, because they're part machine, some people are going to be really fearful of it. And so that was what I was asking you about was the psychology behind this, this kind of place that we're going. And obviously the possibility of bad actors and how that goes, you kind of addressed the possibility as far as saying that there's multiple sources, but what if all those multiple sources, like you said earlier, are all about the power and not about the people? So there you have this, this understanding of the fear that's possible?

Steve Prentice 1:13:32  

Absolutely. And I do fully understand that fear. And this is the concept of change, meaning, managing change in people's lives is an enormous thing. So there is the great potential for fear I completely recognize that but it's a matter of how it emerges upon people. If all of a sudden we said as of Monday of next week, we're going to do things this new way people are going to say no, I don't like that. Would regardless of what it is okay, self driving cars, okay, everyone's gonna have to have a self driving car as of Monday, you're going to get a lot of pushback and rebellion in the streets. But I've always loved to say that a robot is only a robot until it becomes an appliance. And what I mean by that is, when we were growing up in a robots were shiny, clunky silvery things that we're going to do everything for is like the Jetsons promised us. Now you've got a Roomba that can go around your house, not only in just a stupid grid pattern, but it can actually find its way around things intelligent because it's it's AI enhanced. That Roomba, when it first comes out is a super cool robot after you have it for about two weeks. It's an appliance like a dishwasher, just the thing that clears the house. So I find that people grow into this. I mean, Facebook didn't exist once and now it does. If someone said at one time, you know, we're going to develop this this concept that is going to list everybody you've ever known and put them in one place where you can find them. There you go, No, couldn't possibly do that. But if you recall, you will you probably won't remember any Facebook TV ads when it first came out because there weren't any everybody Just gravitated towards Facebook out of the sheer fascination of connecting with other people. When you turn to find something to do on Google streetview, if Google had gone and asked permission, offer every government, municipal, state and federal for permission to go and shoot every street in the country with cameras, we'd still be debating it today. Because asking permission is much more difficult than actually going to do it and asking forgiveness. And so Google just went out and did it and created what we now can't live without, which is the Google streetview or a street map. So just just leveraging the GPS technology that that, you know, it's circling around us in the, in the sky. So, once again, I would say, yeah, the psychology of the fear of change is enormous. And it's powerful. And we're seeing it to this day, with people resisting wearing masks as the most tangible example of exactly that. But at the same time, people wear clothes, you know, people in construction, wear boots, and hats. And that's normal. When the automobile came out, in the, you know, the early decade of the last century, one person had to walk ahead of the car with a red flag tag, showing, you know, the the car was coming, because at a breakneck speed of five miles an hour, it could kill somebody. So it was a new thing that people had to grow use to. These are these concepts, there was a big push back, I remember, when the car was, was made, possibly public, this is back in again. And that's before 1910. certain groups pushed back and said, We can't possibly allow them because they can, bank robbers will be able to drive faster than our Mounted Police can chase them, you know, and this, this is a retrograde mind of our mindset, which is typical of of change the fear of change. But the fear of change happens when things come on to us too quickly. And that's I think my key point here is that, as these technologies just move into our lives, slowly and iteratively, it's called called nudge nudge theory. And in the change management world, we don't notice it, you know, we just speak it just becomes part of our lives. So our microwave, and our dishwasher is now being joined with our robotic vacuum cleaner, and our smart doorbell. And they're only robots until they just become appliances. So honestly, I do think yes, there is a profound fear of change. And as I said, we're seeing it to this day in certain things that are changing our life too quickly. But overall, human beings also are like that horrible allegory of the boiling frog, you know, you put a frog in water and raise the temperature, it doesn't know it's being boiled. I mean, I hate that imagery. But it's what it is, is that people don't see what's happening around them. But it becomes what our life is. And my bottom line statement is that the net net of this is more benefit than harm. In the kinds of technologies we embrace.

Ari Gronich 1:17:42  

And in I'm going to agree and disagree with you. And that because I'm not really ready to become an appliance. And I get that that's what certain things have been become like robots or roombas have become an appliance. But they started off as an appliance to it just was a smarter appliance, it wasn't me becoming the robot. And, and at the same time, I'm really looking forward to the time where I could swallow a whole bunch of nano bites, and they can go in and cure all the disease that is in my system and the causes of inflammation, and then leave me but so I have the mixed feeling about it. I'm allowed to I'm a Gemini. And so we are allowed to have mixed feelings and and contradict ourselves, but you get my ideas my drift is the part where I don't like is the part where people start considering other people, a useful appliance versus a human being because we've become robotic in the way that we've evolved. Our evolution hasn't been a natural evolution, but a forced evolution of, of, of circuitry so to speak. And so you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:19:11  

that's, that's where I

Ari Gronich 1:19:13  

kind of differ in disagree, but I definitely get the excitement of the possibility. You know, it to me, it's really cool to see scientific advancement. And then I watch what they've done with the scientific advancement and I go, okay, you pretty much screwed the pooch on that one. And you turn to your scientific advancement from something that could benefit the world into something that is destroying the world. And so that's where those that dichotomy comes from. of, you know, being able to take these amazing scientific advancements, and make sure that they aren't the control, that they don't become the control versus, you know, and and maybe it's just my You know, my early childhood Terminator mind, that grew up with, with Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, and, and that kind of influence movie, but that that's where I'm where I lean towards i think that that what you said is very telling about becoming an appliance because psychologically speaking for those people who are in power, even now we are useful tools rather than human beings and that becomes where the priority of profit outweighs the priority of people.

Steve Prentice 1:20:45  

I completely agree. And I would say that, for me, again, My issue is not about how much technology becomes part of my physical self, as it is who owns that technology. And I think that did the democratization of the source of those power. And let's say the dilution of the source of those powers is the most valuable component. If there was one company that owned all the technology that did all this stuff, you know, let's say its name was schmegle, or something like that, they own everything. That would be scary. But if there are hundreds of companies around the world 1000s of companies creating technologies that I can choose from, then again, you dilute the the the power structure at the top, thus allowing maybe you'll have a choice in which technology is going to use which medicines and it may wish to use. One of the most, you know, sort of troubling things over the last few years has been, again, the the focus of how media has been channeled into particular opinion types, again, at the behest of certain individual media moguls, for example. I mean, you look at channels like Fox News and things like that, whether you like it or not, like if you love it, or you hate Fox News, the point is still we have a particular approach to delivering facts and news that is very, very centralized. And if you look back at the history of Fox and and all the companies that that are part of that same Empire, there's there's a mindset behind that. And they're not the only one. But if there is more access to more information, like we said, when we were talking about Google versus Twitter research and paper research, and so on, the more access you have to information, the more enlightened we are as individuals, the same thing with our choice of technologies, if there's more access to a different variety of technologies, then that power source gets diluted. And that's where I'd want to play some, my hope is that there isn't just one company that makes all the machinery that's going to turn me into a robot. But instead, I can choose the parts that I want, and evolve with that, again, a bit more to my own choice. But one interesting fact that I would want to add to this discussion, of course, is it when you look at dating services, I mean, you look at all the online dating services and matching services that are out there right now how many people have met and created relationships based on dating services, rather than going out in person to find somebody, the status statistics that I read, say that maybe 1/3 to one half of all children born now are basically a product of artificial intelligence, because the people who created those babies were matched up on dating services, which are AI based. So people are actually being born as now a result of AI and robotics. So that's, that's where you start, and you got to work from there. So I would suggest the democratization and the dilution of the power source at the top is what's going to be our saving grace, as opposed to, in my opinion, as opposed to not wanting to be roboticized, which I actually kind of welcome. But that's just my personal sentiment.

Ari Gronich 1:23:31  

Gotcha. And, and I'm just gonna let it go with with the last part of that, which would be Linux has typically been considered to be a better platform than Microsoft less buggy, more ability to to do more things. And yet, it's still not the respected platform worldwide as Microsoft is. And so that's where I'd say that quality does not necessarily create the quantity of usership. And it doesn't necessarily mean that that's what is going to be be utilized that the typically the best thing is the one that's least used, and more exclusive to, to get a hold of and learn. So that's just you know, again, difference in perspectives which I love having these difference of perspectives because now the audience has these two different places that they could go and, and I definitely like the idea of enhancing my physical prowess is and being able to, to put, you know, some like said some nano bytes in program I want to be a couple inches taller. I want to be, you know, a few pounds lighter. I want to make the muscles a little Bigger. All right, I program that in, and the nano bytes can can change my cellular tissue all they want to do that, but it's where they have influence over my mind that I guess I begin having even a bigger issue. And, and so you know, it's just an interesting place to discuss especially because your, your love is that collusion between technology and and people. So

Steve Prentice 1:25:32  

this one if I made you have a couple 160 seconds more for that Linux Microsoft comparison. Sure, I would agree Linux is a better system. But I'm wondering how many how many lives Linus Torvalds has saved. When I look at Bill Gates, who was you know, the very first really sort of mega billionaire of this industry. Obviously, he made his first millions by licensing Microsoft to IBM, rather than selling the software, right. So he was the profit margin was there from the beginning, create a great product, and not just simply sell it but license it to create what Microsoft became, once he became the richest person in the world, I mentioned, you know, is focusing on the Gates Foundation to save lives in Africa, for whom malaria and numerous others diseases, I'm not here to defend him, I'm just saying what an interesting turn of events, it happens to be that the profit margin that made Microsoft beat out Linux as the operating system of the world has turned around to become the source of saving, you know, millions, hundreds of millions of lives through his his foundation, which he didn't have to do didn't have to spend his money doing that.

Ari Gronich 1:26:38  

No, that's absolutely correct that he did do that. And I'm not going to get into what my stepdaughter might say about the Gates Foundation about Planned Parenthood and about the controversies that surround all of what he's doing and his purpose, because while I met him once on a television set in Los Angeles A long time ago, I didn't have a chance to have a conversation and confront him about the conspiracies that that he falls under. And, and I haven't had a chance to interview him about the things that he's said about things like population control. So I'm not going to get into a moral discussion about Bill Gates in his foundation and what he has either created or lack of created, just like I won't talk about the Clinton Foundation and what they've done or not done and, or, or any of those others at the moment. But the point is, is not is not that, but it's you know, whether the best quality is going to prevail, or the best salesman is going to prevail. prevail. And when it comes to something as serious as what we put into our bodies, and what can potentially be have control over our bodies and minds. I don't want this salesman to win, I don't want the good businessman to win, I want the best quality technology with the least negative side effects on you know, the population as possible. And so that's where I think, you know, I look for that moral control. And that, that place where how do we make sure that the bad players can't hack into the system that's now embedded in my brain, and tell me how to think and tell me what to do and make sure that regardless of if it's a small company, or a large company, or if it's 1000, large companies and small companies combined, that choose to, you know, take over or choose, you know, or somebody at the company, I don't like the company I'm being fired from. And so I'm going to hack into all the brains that that particular company who used to have that good reputation, you know, and so that's, that's where the, again, the fear comes with, with a wish and want for control, and still having that excitement about the possibilities of cool stuff that you know, can enhance our lives in those ways. So anywho

Unknown Speaker 1:29:30  

How

Ari Gronich 1:29:31  

can people get a hold of you, Steve, if they're interested in their company or them as individuals, bridging those gaps between technology and and the people?

Steve Prentice 1:29:44  

Well, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to say that you can reach me at Steve prentice.com and it's just it's Steve Prentice.com and that's explains everything. In fact, you know what, just as a tail end to what you're saying there, right? Don't even give up my business card now, when I give out business cards is that that's all that's on there and no phone number, no fax number, no address. Nothing just simply just says Steve prentice.com. And people look at me kind of strangely and say, Is this it? This is your business card? I said, Yeah, everything you need to know about me is there. That's all you need. Awesome.

Ari Gronich 1:30:20  

Thank you so much, Steve. And, you know, this has been an interesting and eye opening conversation, I hope that you guys got a lot out of it. Because, you know, these are the these are the tough conversations that go along with morality and technology and systems and how we work with them. So that we can create a better world, not just more of the world that we have right now. So we want to create a new tomorrow. Today, we want to activate your vision for a better world. And remember to rate like, subscribe, review, comment below so we can continue on this conversation. And until then, I bid you really interesting dreams, thinking about technology, and your body combining. For now we are out. See you next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Steve Prentice, He is a professional speaker, published author, writer, journalist, project manager, university lecturer, and consultant, who helps people, businesses, and technology understand each other. he wears a few hats, but ultimately it's all about communicating and implementing the ideas, plans, and skills that are vital for surviving and thriving in a quickly changing world.

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Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

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We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

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Steve Prentice 0:00  

I mean, here's here's number one. We've we've been going through extremely tough year. We're not out of the woods yet with regards to everything going on. And one of the major offshoots, aside from the tragedy of this year is job losses and just just people who have had real trouble just keeping afloat because of the changes in commerce. Now, one thing that I do say, and I was saying this even before the COVID thing happened, was there's never been a better time to be at work right now. But there's also never been a better time to be out of work. And that sounds like a cynical statement, but it's not intended to be. What I'm saying here is that there's never been a better time to find new work and the mindset, we're talking about the old fogy brain a moment ago and the mindset from let's say, a couple of decades ago with regards to what a job was and what a career was, was largely focused on maybe staying with the same job for your entire career staying employable within a company.

Hi, I am here with Shawn Harper, He Is An Experience Packed With High Energy And Never A Dull Moment. Shawn Rips Phone Books, Rolls Up Frying Pans And Carries Humans On His Back To Deliver A Winning Keynote Performance Customized To Fit Your Goals And Audience

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY SHAWN TO LEARN MORE

https://www.shawnharper.org/

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:07  

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today I have with me Shawn Harper, former NFL offensive lineman, an offensive is correct. Owned and Operated American services in protection of growing multimillion dollar security services firm, which is headquartered in Ohio. Shawn, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into the NFL, because you know, that's not like any easy task doesn't just take a big guy, but how you did that, and what mindset etc, you know, just kind of roll a little bit on your history.

Shawn Harper 0:50  

So I was probably one of the most unlikely individuals to ever play professional football. Let me back up gratitude. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you for this opportunity to share my unique experience, my mindset, my approach to life into winning. on to your question, yeah, just, it's just the most unlikely as route to play professional football, most athletes expressing nowadays, they're tracked outside of maybe peewee football, you know, that everyone will know who you are, you're tracked from the second, third grade all the way through college. And sometimes you even steer to go to certain colleges. And so those systems are in place. And then, you know, you naturally fall in line once you're drafted, but I completely backdoored the entire system. I barely started in high school football, I wasn't even honorable mention our conference. I didn't have the grades, I left high school, the 1.6 to a cumulative GPA, not on a CT, out of 150 for seniors to graduate, my Academic Ranking was 154. And I had to go up to a junior college, obviously, in Mason City, Iowa. After that year, I, I made the shift. And the shift was, yeah, you're right. I can't be successful. According to the World standards, I don't have the education, I don't have the network, you know, wrong side attracts. I said, but I can win. And once I made that shift to winning versus success, doors begin to open or I begin to look at obstacles as opportunities.

Ari Gronich 2:24  

So, you know, here, here's the the big part of that question is how, how did how did your mind shift so drastically from what it was to what it had to become? What was the the impetus that made that happen? And then do you have like, some actionable steps that maybe somebody listening could go through in order to have this similar kind of experience of mind shift

Unknown Speaker 2:58  

was yet so I kind of I kind of glossed over it earlier. But um, but of course, of course, you know, being you know, really keen and know how to just pull stuff out. I'm going to revisit the whole concept of winning versus success. Where we're not created to be successful. We're created to win. Winning is the fullest expression of who you are mentally, socially, emotionally, physically. And the most important aspect as far as I'm concerned is legacy. Okay. And and and and which is why when you you know, watch sports and things like that, it's like wow, you know, when you know, if a team lost every single game for the next five years, you wouldn't go although years. Although you're a fan. You're not going to go

Ari Gronich 3:51  

cago

Unknown Speaker 3:52  

Yeah, yeah, but guess what? You let you let Chicago win a couple Super Bowls and you will find ancient artifacts, you will find old jerseys come up you will find this is the original banner from 90 you will have guest appearances from the 8485 bears just show up because people are attracted to winning in fact, that's a great example Chicago, you know, you cannot go to Chicago have a conversation with anyone over the age of 45 and some out that Super Bowl shuffle team is going to come up if they will bring they will deduct reason, the entire conversation to that moment, because that's the win video games, man we spend so much money. Why it's because we are attracted to winning the casino billions winning. In fact, everyone who's listening to me right now you're one of your one of two, 3 million sperm cells you were the one to fertilize the egg winning is a part of your your actual DNA You aren't a winner. So when you embrace winning versus success, your eyes begin to open and you begin to look at different aspects of life, like, Wait a second, first and foremost, I'm a winner.

Ari Gronich 5:13  

Here's the things that pull out. I'm the kind of guy I listen for the things that people don't say. And so I read in between the lines, I see the gaps. So you're talking about winning and success being a separate thing, my interpretation of that would go, being a winner doesn't mean beating somebody else means beating the previous version of yourself. And so as success might look differently, to somebody who just beat their previous version of themselves, like they may not have beaten somebody else. But if they beat who they were the day before, they're a success, and they're a winner.

Unknown Speaker 5:54  

Yes. Success says, according to the world, the thing about this success is a rule change. Okay? you're successful, if you have a lot of money. If you have a lot of status, you will even allow likes to be considered data being successful. If you look depart, and you have a lot of material wealth, for the most part, you're a winner, or I'm sorry, you're successful, that feeds right into the elites, pockets right there, the car, the house, all of that they changed the rules, they shifted the game. They don't talk about relationships all that much. They don't even talk about your health all that much. But they talk about materialism, status, and wealth. That is the determiner of success. And that's why people are so big in production, and they're not big on reproduction, which is congruent to who you are, we are created to not only to produce but to reproduce.

Ari Gronich 7:04  

So then there's the question that I'm sure you prepared yourself for a retirement from the sport. That doesn't necessarily happen with most of the athletes, a lot of athletes at least that I've worked with, they've had the experience of having to retire or being forced to retire, either by injury or or some means, and having not prepared for that next phase, financially or otherwise. So how did you prepare for retirement, and what would be some suggestions that you might have to other athletes and people in the industry,

Unknown Speaker 7:51  

very few things can prepare you for retirement, you have to understand, I am a trained. As far as football is concerned, I made you know, I was a trained assassin almost I mean, I've been playing football since the second grade, you know, football is is is like that, Shawn, the football player, it's your identity, you know, second grade or eighth, ninth 10th, you know, the diet, you know, you're used to the coach do this and do that, you know, it's just and then one day, at the professional ranks, one day stops, or you stop it. So now all that inertia is still moving towards sports, and your body responds every, every summer and you know you are or if you walk into a locker room, you smell it just, you know, you're still there, you know, and your mindset your personality is has been shifted. And so one of the things that I've done is that, in my mind, I haven't left the game. I'm on to a different game.

Ari Gronich 8:55  

Absolutely. That. That is. It's amazing. So let's transition a little bit. Since you're no longer on the field. You're now in the offices of American services and protection, right? Which is a security services firm. And how did you switch to security from NFL? Like, what was the

Unknown Speaker 9:23  

Okay,

Ari Gronich 9:24  

what was the thinking there?

Unknown Speaker 9:25  

So, my brother had a security company and he kind of basically turned it over to me. And guess the long and short of it but from a from a psychological standpoint is is the same. You know, you know, I'm a left guard left tackle. And so guess what, I'm protecting people, my clients, my quarterback, don't let your quarterback get sacked. It's the same thing.

Ari Gronich 9:54  

Okay. What is it that that was the biggest ad versity that you've gone through pray previous to even being in an NFL or in college sports.

Unknown Speaker 10:10  

Wow. So I would like to answer that. I would like to answer that from a, from the outside of Shawn.

Ari Gronich 10:24  

perspective, are you going to speak in third person? No.

Unknown Speaker 10:30  

But I'm going to tell you the greatest pain and the greatest impact, and I'm measuring that, because I'm still dealing with that. And that was the absence of my father. Growing up. Does something about a daddy, a father and if any men if you hear me, listen to me, boy, I tell you what, I my body, my soul, my spirit misses my daddy. Now the good news is that he came back to our security company, through our security company, and he was with me for the last 20 years of his life. Every day. We employ Daddy, I saw him every day, loved in the way webinars love a lot of hate, hate, hate towards the end, it was love. But yeah, he had divorced my mom when I was like, two or three years of age, and my mom raised all six of us by herself on the south side of Columbus scrubbing floors, you know, but the void of daddy and I can see it, I can see it now in my son Caleb, because Caleb is now 18 years of age. And, and and I raised that boy, I was there for him. And I can see so much that he has that I never had in it's like, wow, you know, and so my body, my soul, my emotions at time still aches. For Daddy, every boy needs his daddy, every man still needs his daddy.

Ari Gronich 12:03  

I think I think we'll leave the audience off with that. As you know, what else? What else is there but being comfortable with? Yeah, you are. And taking that out? To the world?

Unknown Speaker 12:22  

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 12:24  

This Listen, let's listen. Because you get me on a roll here. I don't say one thing, okay? We are all in the business of selling. Okay, but before you try to sell anything to anyone else, you sell to yourself, sell yourself in the mirror, you sell yourself, you're awesome. You're this thing that you sell yourself, before you sell to anyone else. sell yourself and never sell yourself short.

Ari Gronich 12:55  

Well, you're more than welcome to rant on my show any day. And get on a roll. And I really appreciate you being here and giving to the audience like this, like you have. I know I asked some pretty crazy questions, gets you off off your normal game, hopefully a little bit. I like to, you know, throw the curves. Not just the past that straighten nicely spiraled, but the ones that lemon out, you know. So. So I appreciate you being here. And, and we will, you know, we'll we'll continue on these conversations. And hopefully the audience got a lot out of this. I'm sure that they did. And remember to rate subscribe, comment, like review, etc. Shawn, how can people get ahold of you if they'd like to? To work with you?

Unknown Speaker 13:56  

Yes. So my actual website is ShawnHarper.org, or Seanspeaks.com yet use Sean speaks.com. I'm giving away a free chapter of my book. And it's Sean Harper wins w ins.com. And no, don't worry about that. Go to Shawn harper.co, you'll get the full book. I'll give you a full book, you get the full book at the Winning Edge understanding winning strategies and tactics since we've talked about that and you pull that out, go to Shawn harper.co you get the entire book for free. You ain't gotta go to Amazon. Yours. And last thing I'll say is, this is me, selfishly is Shawn Harper speaker on Instagram.

Ari Gronich 14:47  

That's it. That's awesome. Thank you so much for for that gift. I know that that'll be in and of itself a great value for the audience. So remember to Go there. Shawnharper.com and get a copy of his book and winning learn yourself. Yeah. And so winning mindsets. This has been a great new tomorrow episode. And let's remember to create a new tomorrow today. Activate your vision for a better world. I am your host Ari Gronich thank you so much, Sean for coming on. And we'll be out

Hi, I am here with Shawn Harper, He Is An Experience Packed With High Energy And Never A Dull Moment. Shawn Rips Phone Books, Rolls Up Frying Pans And Carries Humans On His Back To Deliver A Winning Keynote Performance Customized To Fit Your Goals And Audience

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY SHAWN TO LEARN MORE

https://www.shawnharper.org/

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:00  

I'm Ari Gronich, and this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today I have with me Shawn Harper, former NFL offensive lineman and offensive is correct. Owned and Operated American services in protection of growing multimillion dollar security services firm, which is headquartered in Ohio. Sean, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into the NFL, because, you know, that's not like any easy task doesn't just take a big guy, but how you did that? And what mindset etc, you know, just kind of Yeah, roll a little bit on your history.

Shawn Harper 0:59  

So I was probably one of the most unlikely individuals to ever play professional football. Let me back up gratitude. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you for this opportunity to share my unique experience my mindset, my approach to life into winning. on to your question, yeah, just it's just the most unlikely as route to play professional football, most athletes expressing nowadays, they're tracked outside of maybe peewee football, you know that everyone will know who you are your track from the second third grade all the way through college, and sometimes you even steer to go to certain colleges. And so those systems are in place. And then, you know, you naturally fall in line once you're drafted, but I completely backdoor the entire system. I barely started in high school football, I wasn't even an honorable mention conference. I didn't have the grades. I left high school, the 1.6 to a cumulative GPA, not on a CT. Out of 150 for seniors to graduate, my Academic Ranking was 154. And I had to go off to a junior college, obviously, in Mason City, Iowa, like 26,000, blond hair, blue eyes, everyone's last name is Schneider. So I'm in the cornfields of Mason City. And the first year I sit the bench the entire season that one document at play. And I'm sorry, maybe I was on next special teams once or twice. And after that year, I, I made the shift. And the shift was, yeah, you're right. I can't be successful. According to the World standards. I don't have the education. I don't have the network, you know, wrong side of tracks. I said, but I can win. And once I made that shift to winning versus success, doors begin to open or I begin to look at obstacles as opportunities. And I begin to see things different I begin to like MacGyver life and and so I went from not even stepping on the field until next year. Yeah, Junior College Hall of Fame guy and first team all region full scholarship, Indiana University, and black for Heisman candidates, and then the story in where you pick up and saying that I played, you know, professional football for the Rams and the coats. But one thing I've learned is that life is a game you play to win, and that there's always a way to win. And one of the secrets one of the secrets to winning is that you have to know the rules, and you have to be willing to lose.

Ari Gronich 3:36  

That's like, deserves a nice, big deep breath. Right? So you got it, you got to know the rules. Right? What if you're somebody that likes playing outside the rules?

Unknown Speaker 3:58  

So

Shawn Harper 4:00  

when I mean, when I'm talking about rules, I'm really talking about laws. So I love I love bending and breaking rules, okay? Because sometimes rules are constructs to protect another class and another group of people. But laws are the foundations of this world or this universe. And there are laws you cannot break. If you break spiritual law, spiritual laws will break you. So in reference to the game of life, when I'm talking about rules, I'm talking about laws, I'm talking about law law of the 212. And that means that water boils at 211 degrees. And at 212 degrees, water boils, boiling water has changed the world. You step in, you push yourself into the to 12 that's a different law. It's a different mindset. laws like that. And once you understand the laws, then you use them. To your favor.

Ari Gronich 5:01  

Awesome. That was kind of what I was trying to get out of you a little bit. So, you know, what rules did you break? To get to where you are?

Shawn Harper 5:12  

Well, so one of the rules, I remember playing towards the end of my first year, and I'm talking about May, you know, you know, I want to play professional football going into it. And one of the people said to me, you know, if you're good, they'll find you. And if you're not good, then they will not find you. And I looked around, and I'm doing everything that everyone else is doing, and I'm not progressing. So one of the laws that I had to implement is that you find out what everyone else is doing, you do something different, you do the opposite. So everyone was in Columbus, or my hometown, Columbus, Ohio only golf season or their respective hometowns. I decided to go back to junior college four months earlier. And I went back by myself in a dorm room, one other guy, one other person in the entire dorm. I took some summer courses, and I trained twice a day. By myself, I train twice a day in the morning, in the evening, 2000 skips in the morning, 2000 skips in the evening, I was willing to do what everyone else was not willing to do. I became an outlier. And I'm thinking, you know, what, if there's, you know, maybe 1000 junior college offensive lineman coming out, there's only a handful of colleges want to make sure that I'm going to have the edge. The next thing I did when I was there is that I pulled out a sheet of paper, and I wrote 200 junior colleges. I'm sorry, 200 division one and Division Two colleges, I wrote them all, actually online, I wrote one letter and Xeroxed it 200 times, I put the name in, and then I signed it. And then I, I mean, I just mailed it to every single one of them, you know what the phone started ringing. And so these are some of the things that I was willing to do that's a little bit different, unusual, ordinary and extraordinary, to make myself known. Another thing real quick is that, you know, the average semester, our course load is, you know, maybe between 14 and 16 credit hours, I took 22 in one semester had night classes almost seven days a week, and I was able to graduate a semester early, which made myself more marketable expected to division one colleges.

Ari Gronich 7:38  

So, you know, here, here's the big part of that question is, how, how did how did your mind shift so drastically from what it was to what it had to become? What was the the impetus that made that happen? And then do you have like, some actionable steps that maybe somebody listening could go through in order to have this similar kind of experience of mind shift

Shawn Harper 8:12  

was yet so I kind of I kind of glossed over it earlier. But, but caught in our course, you know, being you know, really keen and know how to just pull stuff out. I'm going to revisit the whole concept of winning versus success. We're not created to be successful. We're created to win. Winning is the fullest expression of who you are mentally, socially, emotionally, physically. And the most important aspect as far as I'm concerned is legacy. Okay. And and and and which is why when you you know, watch sports and things like that, it's like wow, you know, when, you know, if a team lost every single game for the next five years, you wouldn't go although you're although you're a fan, you're not going to go

Ari Gronich 9:05  

cago

Shawn Harper 9:06  

Yeah, yeah, but guess what? You let you let Chicago win a couple Super Bowls and you will find ancient artifacts, you will find old jerseys come up you will find this is the original banner from 90 you will have guest appearances from the 8485 bears don't just show up because people are attracted to winning in fact, that's a great example Chicago, you know, you cannot go to Chicago have a conversation with anyone over the age of 45 and some owl, that Super Bowl shuffle team is going to come up. If they will bring they will deduct reason, the entire conversation to that moment, because that's the when video games man we spend so much money. Why it's because we are attracted to winning the casino billions we In fact, everyone who's listening to me right now you're one of know you're one of two, 3 million sperm cells, you were the one to fertilize the egg winning is a part of your, your actual DNA, you are a winner. So when you embrace winning versus success, your eyes begin to open and you begin to look at different aspects of life. like wait a second, first and foremost, I'm a winner like Chicago, you mentioned Chicago Bears. How is it that Brooke, a group of guys in a big rookie can make a video about going to the Superbowl. about going to the Super Bowl, winning the Super Bowl, call it the Super Bowl shuffle have to get Daphne to make that song in training camp. Because the two things, two things that they had, obviously, they had the talent, but two things they had, number one, they had belief. And number two, they created a paradigm. So one of the ways that you can win with winners is that you recognize paradigms, every the most wealth is created when there's a paradigm shift of some sort. And with the bears, they created a defense. Tobin, Ryan created a defense the year earlier, it wasn't perfected, they created the 46. And they kind of messed with it. And they unleashed the 46 Bear. And no team in the NFL has never seen it, and they could not combat it. And that was their edge. So think about that prospering and paradigms is one of the ways in which you can win. My Team 90 the computer was the internet was introduced. Think about all the winners 1990. All the companies that was a paradigm shift. Okay. COVID is a paradigm shift 911 is a paradigm shift, I'll give you a paradigm shift that's created hundreds of millionaires and billionaires right now. And that's cryptocurrency. That's a paradigm shift. crypto is a huge shift. And once in once you put on that winner hat, you'll look at things like crypto different, you look at things like AI different, you look at things like autonomous automobiles, because you want to make sure that you're on the right side of the track of the wind, and on the wrong side of the wind, your body will not allow you to be on the wrong side of the wind.

Ari Gronich 12:31  

So you know, here, here's, here's the things that pull out. I'm the kind of guy I listen for the things that people don't say. And so I read in between the lines, I see the gaps. So you're talking about winning and success being a separate thing, my interpretation of that would go, being a winner doesn't mean beating somebody else means beating the previous version of yourself. And so as success might look differently to somebody who just beat their previous version of themselves, like they may not have beaten somebody else. But if they beat who they were the day before, they're a success, and they're a winner.

Shawn Harper 13:16  

Yes. Success says, according to the world, the thing about this success is a rule change. Okay? you're successful. If you have a lot of money. If you have a lot of status, you will even allow likes to be considered that of being successful. If you look depart, and you have a lot of material wealth, for the most part, you're a winner. Or I'm sorry, you're successful, that feeds right into the elites, pockets, right? They have the car, the house, all of that they changed the rules, they shifted the game. They don't talk about relationships all that much. They don't even talk about your health all that much. But they talk about materialism, status and wealth. That is the determiner of success, and that's why people are so big in production, and they're not big on reproduction, which is congruent to who you are. We are created to not only to produce but to reproduce.

Ari Gronich 14:27  

interesting perspective. So what took you out of the game?

Shawn Harper 14:33  

I'm not out the game.

Ari Gronich 14:36  

Out of the physical playing of the game, oh,

Shawn Harper 14:42  

time. It's it's I said to myself that I was not going to be the that guy chasing the game. I'm not going to be that person trying to squeeze out for five more years. And, you know, it was just one day I just was up, you know, towards the end I actually finished up in NFL Europe and, and matte black for Kurt Warner, you know, and, and when they I woke up and I was like, you know what it's over Game Over, it's time for It's time for it, it's time for another game, it's time for another game or another aspect of the game. And the rest is history. So,

Ari Gronich 15:24  

so then bears the question that I'm sure you prepared yourself for a retirement from the sport. That doesn't necessarily happen with most of the athletes, a lot of athletes, at least that I've worked with, they've had the experience of having to retire or being forced to retire, either by injury or or some means, and having not prepared for that next phase, financially or otherwise. So how did you prepare for retirement, and what would be some suggestions that you might have to other athletes and people in the industry,

Shawn Harper 16:11  

very few things can prepare you for retirement, you have to understand, I am a trained as far as football is concerned, I made you know, I was a trained assassin almost, I mean, I've been playing football since the second grade, you know, football is is is like that, Shawn, the football player, it's your identity, you know, second grade or eighth, ninth 10th, you know, the diet, you know, you're used to the coach do this and do that, you know, it's just and then one day, at the professional ranks, one day stops, or you stop it. So now, all that inertia is still moving towards sports, and your body responds every, every summer, and you know you are or if you walk into a locker room, you smell it, just, you know, you're still there, you know, and your mindset your personality is has been shifted. And so one of the things that I've done is that, in my mind, I haven't left again, I'm on to a different game. And I'm still playing it. And this, this, this is my uniform. This is my backdrop. And every day, I prepare myself accordingly. And so that's how I'm able to do it financially. I was horrible at that, you know, I made a lot of mistakes, a lot of investments, you know, people always come around and professional athletes, like you and I got this new, had a Thai company or this company had no business sense at all. But I was able to take those losses tournament and mentally turn them into tuition. And I was able to win from that, you know, and so, I, I've taken a lot of what I've learned in the corporate world, I mean, as far as the professional world, and I infused it into the corporate world, because unbeknownst to a lot of people, the NFL is probably one of the most successful business models ever.

Ari Gronich 18:14  

Oh, I mean, that's, that's easy to see. Yeah, you've transferred this, but what would you say to the others that are in the sport for for ways in which they can avoid as many of those lessons that are harder learned?

Shawn Harper 18:36  

Learn how. Learn how to take off the helmet. It's it's the professional world is so encompassing, you know, it's just you know, you're here, everyone sees you as the athlete, and it's so intoxicating, because you're not Shawn Harper, your shellharbour the NFL athlete is, there's so much to that, that you have to be intentional to say, Hey, this is who I am. This is who we are. What I mean by we are here we are, this is who, you know, our This is our relationships, you know, this is our marriage, you know, get away from that lala land and let's dig down. Let's really check out Stephen, who we are and how we're growing and how we're progressing together. Okay, let's strip away everything. So there has to be there has to be a couple things that ties you to reality that ties you to the moment what's that movie called where the guy is kept like a quarter in his pocket. You know, and it's like what it was to our MX actually one was alone omo because somewhere in time but there's another one something tranquility some in league with Tom Cruise's, and I think I, I don't

Ari Gronich 20:02  

Yeah, I'm, I, I can remember the line and the way that it looks. But I know thinking on the name of the movie.

Shawn Harper 20:13  

Well, so that is one thing that I wouldn't always, always keep one or two things in your life, man. That's personal. That's you. Like if it's your marriage, it doesn't go on social media. It's just this is this keeps you grounded in the second thing, which is the most important thing. I think. You got to have one or two people in your life that will close the door and tell you the truth. That will always speak truth to you. Because you got your entourage you got the band. You got the groupies. You know they're all feeding you and pumping your head up and gas and even your family gassing you up. You need that one person. This like, you know what? I'm not impressed. Do you know what this is about to happen? Do you remember a guy named Jackie Slater?

Unknown Speaker 21:07  

Yeah, absolutely.

Shawn Harper 21:08  

Okay. I'm gonna take one of Jackie Slater secrets. Okay. I don't think you'll kill me.

Ari Gronich 21:13  

Audience use later. Can you keep a secret audience?

Shawn Harper 21:17  

Yeah, keep a secret audience Jackie Slater played, I think 20 years professional football, offensive tackle number 76. Probably one of the best right tackles to ever play the game. He was a man's man out of Jackson State. So. So Jackie, what he would do is he would go through his sets at practice, as the right tackle, your sets have to be perfect. Straight up the line, you said too far to the right, they're gonna come under you. You set too far from the left, you're gonna give them the corner. So your sets have to be perfect. So Jackie couldn't watch his sets. And so after every set, he made me, a guy named Calvin Harris. We should play through hurricanes. Darrell Ashmore from Northwestern, we will have to stand behind him have his water ready. And he would say with a with a look of innocence that I've never seen. How's my set? How's my line? And every once in a while, Jackie, you're setting too far out? Okay, I'll work on that. Or Jackie, you're setting too far. And okay, I'll work on that. That is how he played 20 years. That's how he was an all Pro. Because he had somebody watching his live. Who do you have in your life to saying, Hey, buddy, you're out of control? tighten up? You need that?

Ari Gronich 22:42  

Absolutely. That. That is. It's amazing. So let's transition a little bit. Since you're no longer on the field, you're now in the offices of American services and protection, right? Which is a security services firm. And how did you switch to security from NFL? Like, what was the?

Unknown Speaker 23:10  

Okay,

Ari Gronich 23:11  

what was the thinking there?

Shawn Harper 23:12  

So, my brother had a security company and he kind of basically turned it over to me. And that's the long and the short of it. But from a from a psychological standpoint is is the same. You know, you know, I'm a left guard left tackle. And so guess what, I'm protecting people, my clients, my quarterback, don't let your quarterback get sacked. Same thing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 23:41  

Okay.

Ari Gronich 23:43  

What is it that that was the biggest adversity that you've gone through previous to even being in an NFL or in college sports?

Shawn Harper 23:57  

Wow. So I would like to answer that. I would like to answer that from a from the outside of Shawn. perspective. Are you going to speak in third person? No. But I'm going to tell you the greatest pain and the greatest impact, and I'm measuring that because I'm still dealing with that. And that was the absence of my father. Growing up. There's something about a daddy, a father and if any men if you hear me, listen to me what Tell you what? I my body, my soul, my spirit misses my daddy. Now the good news is that he came back to our security company, through our security company and he was with me for the last 20 years of his life. Every day. We employ Daddy, I saw him every day loved in the way webinars love a lot of hate, hate hate towards the end, it was love. But yeah, he had divorced my mom when I was like, two or three years of age, and my mom raised all six of us by herself on the south side of Columbus scrubbing floors, you know, but the void of Daddy, and I can see it, I can see it now in my son Caleb, because Caleb is now 18 years of age. And, and, and I raised that boy, I was there for him. And I can see so much that he has that I never had in it's like, wow, you know, and so my body, my soul, my emotions at time still aches. For Daddy, every boy needs his daddy, every man still needs his daddy.

Unknown Speaker 25:51  

Oh, wow.

Ari Gronich 25:55  

That may, you know, bring me to a different part of that discussion. Because when I I'm talking to friends about, you know, equal rights and black rights and things like that one of the biggest issues that I hear about from my friends in that community is the lack of ads. And if you trace back certain people, they might say that, that leads back to when trades stopped, basically being taught in schools prior to college. And, and when, you know, they attribute it to a time period, basically, but what would you say is been the noticeable impact that you can see on yourself and then on any other people in your community.

Unknown Speaker 26:59  

Um,

Shawn Harper 27:02  

identity, your daddy tells you who you are, your dad gives you that steel pole that goes right into the middle of your so it's like, this is who you are a man, the dad calls the king out of the kid, you know, the dad gives so much and it's amazing because our society tends, tends, tends to promote the opposite.

Unknown Speaker 27:28  

Now

Shawn Harper 27:32  

I don't have to talk about from my perspective, the impact or the devastation of not having a father in the home, all you have to do is go look at the stats. And the stats are overwhelming even in the crime stats, even just just they've tracked all these matrixes if you know the kid, whether they're black or white, that doesn't have a father in the home. And so many times more likely to go to jail so many more times, likely a young lady to get pregnant so many more times, likely to be impoverished so many times across all socio economic situations and circumstances against different groups, not races, only one race, human race, but just different groups is just plain as day. But what be what bewilders me is that there's so much this this, there's little resources that are pointed towards that. I heard this one story about this kid who who wanted to play with his father and he took this sheet a disk this this newspaper, and he tore it up in little pieces, because on the back of the newspaper, it was a world. And he said if you can put this family back together, you know, son, I play with you. He figured he hadn't bought half our tiny little pieces, right? And he came up within five minutes. He says, Son, how did you do that? Did your mom help me? He said no. So on the back that there was a world when I put the world back together, the family came back together or vice versa, the family together the world came back together. but you get the point. And so it's like that family nucleus has been broken down. And I believe that it's going to take a group effort not only from blacks, whites, our entire culture, we have a responsibility of help putting that unit back together. Period. We have that I'm not asking for handouts. I'm not asking for you know, but when you look at our criminal justice system with like 90% African American male when you look at the disparity in sentencing versus like, you know, Caucasian person versus a black person for the same crime. We got to take a look at that and take a look at We all know when you do not give social assistance if a male is living in the house, really, if you have a man and a house, you can't get welfare. Like, what is that? Okay, you got to take a step back, like none of them. We got put the family back together and stop tearing it apart. And and we have to take as men take responsibility and to preserve the family, and stop perpetuating and break the inertia that's been established years ago.

Ari Gronich 30:31  

I'm glad that you added the personal responsibility. Yeah, there to that, because

Shawn Harper 30:37  

I'm big on that.

Ari Gronich 30:39  

That is definitely a thing. But taking into account personal responsibility, what do you think that the original circumstances, because to me, if we if we want to solve a problem, we've got to find out the root, which is the initial why the thing that began at all? So what do you think was the initial? You know, part of that breaking apart of the family?

Shawn Harper 31:09  

The initial part of the breaking a part of the family is just that the breaking apart of the family? Where did that happen? Where, where was the family stripped the ideology, or the concept of the family destroys, or wherever in history, that you've had situations or circumstances where they destroyed the family, that is the Genesis or that is the crux of where it began. And so just go back and look and say, okay, ha, there it is, ha, there it is, Ah, there it is.

Ari Gronich 31:52  

So, I like to be more specific. And so in, in trying to be more specific, right, we've created a society that relies on both parents to be working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, just to survive. I mean, I know a lot of families that have two, three jobs between, you know, each person each day, and, you know, men have a, I think, a very interesting instinct to be supportive of a family. And when they lose that ability to be supportive. They tend to kind of run, because, you know, at least in my world, it's like, if you're not able to support your family, and what kind of man are you and go on that route of, and then he just kind of, alright, I can't handle being that. So I'm gonna just leave. Right. But to me that the beginning would have been when we decided that we needed people to work for their value, and make money for their value versus raise their family, which, you know, we don't provide a value for in our culture. And, and so just an interesting way of looking at it. I think.

Shawn Harper 33:27  

So. So what you've said, though, or what I heard is, is that the emphasis in the value has been taken off the family and placed on something else. Exactly. Yes. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 33:47  

Yes.

Shawn Harper 33:50  

I hear that. I understand that. Whether it's a white family, or whether it's a black family, that doesn't matter. Yeah, we have taken the emphasis off or the importance off of it. And we've sacrificed it in the name of profit, for status.

Ari Gronich 34:09  

Exactly, which is what I like to talk the most about is how we incentivize. You know, the things that we incentivize what, what's the cause of the issues of the world, the incentives that we decide to create? So in the case of say, healthcare, we incentivize procedures over results. In the case of agriculture, we incentivize bulk creation of profit over small individual farms, right? So we actually give tax incentives to these big companies that are poisoning the food rather than giving the tax incentives to the organic local farmers. Right? So therefore, our incentive is profit over people.

Shawn Harper 35:04  

I think that the, I think that the incentive is step two, I think that the greed is step one. Step one to me is the desire. So, like in, in, in the book of Genesis, it was Eve is when she saw the fruit to be good. So now that desire for profit, for gain now gives power to the incentives to achieve that. And so we have to go take it a step further and say, Hey, as you just said, your last phrase is that you have to elevate the people over the profit.

Ari Gronich 36:01  

Absolutely. And, you know, there used to be this thing about having integrity, right, we, you know, the quality of production was more important than anything else. Because if we put through something that was of quality, this is how we got the made in the USA, right? label of being such a powerful thing is because we created quality products, and now we've moved to creating lack of quality that's meant to basically what they call that it's premeditated, but it's, that's not the word, pre metod, meditated breaking of products. Planned obsolescence, that's what I'm talking about. So we've created this planned obsolescence for our products, so that they break down so that people have to buy more so that we build more profit. And so I mean, I don't know, I've seen radios from the 1920s that still work, and, you know, crank, record players and stuff like that, but I don't see very many boom boxes on the street anymore that are working. You know. So if we lose our quality, the value of quality of creating things that have quality, then we now create the incentive, as you said, the greed to make things not last. So where does the money go at the end of the day goes to nothing that's making anything creating anything new. Right, like betting on whether the people are gonna buy it or not? Right, that's where the money is made Wall Street. So that being said, because you're a business guy, what are your What are you doing in your business to be more pragmatic and heart centered

Unknown Speaker 38:09  

about it?

Shawn Harper 38:12  

Well, so one of the things that I'm working on my struggle, and I'm learning is, at the end of the day, it's all about people, understanding people, being an excellent communicator, listening to people's issues past the bottom line, as a CEO, you know, the bottom line is extremely important. So instead of focusing on the bottom line, I focus on things that influences the bottom line. And so when you put the so now that you flipped it, I'm looking at people, people influenced my bottom line. So now guess what pouring into my people influences the bottom line. So now my bottom line is people not profit, the profit of take care of itself if you take care of the people.

Ari Gronich 39:04  

That is, one of the hardest things that I've ever had to get across to a company that I've consulted in their corporate culture, is that they need to switch their employees from being on the negative deficit side of a balance sheet to the asset side. If they start treating them like they're on that asset side, all of a sudden, their assets will grow.

Shawn Harper 39:36  

Yes, the ROI is off the chart in so many ways, not just in production, but an ideas, loyalty, referrals. It's just the list goes on and on. And so that's that's to switch now. I'm like, the ROI is you give what you want. And yeah, you pour into people.

Ari Gronich 40:03  

That's awesome. What do you do for the families of the people who work for you.

Shawn Harper 40:08  

So what we're doing now is, is that we are opening up, and we're extremely discreet about it. But if there is a challenge that's going on with one of our officers, that they have the right, or the spouse has the right to call in and say, Hey, this is what we're dealing with, you know, we need a loan, we have some problems. Someone who works with us as an actual counselor, you know, you know, we can give, you know, because sometimes the officer might not do it. But the spouse will. And so we're trying to create that net now. So, yeah,

Ari Gronich 40:53  

awesome. Yeah, one of the things that I like to scream to the corporate heads about is how they take care of their employees, but not just them. They have families that need to be taken care of, and then I go a little bit step out and say, Okay, so how you're taking care of your local communities? What are you doing for the local communities in order to uplift them? And

Unknown Speaker 41:26  

so, yeah,

Ari Gronich 41:27  

do any outreach in your communities as well?

Shawn Harper 41:30  

No, not as much as we should we give anonymously and I do speaking engagements on behalf of American servers. But you know, honestly, man, it's like, it's like, you know, on a scale of one to 10, it's like a three, you know, it should be a whole heck of a lot more. Yeah, definitely, you know, a speech here and there is fine tinker with food pantry, you know, we should have a food pantry. So yeah, I'm definitely lacking or lagging in that. Definitely, I could do so much more.

Ari Gronich 42:03  

Hopefully, I just inspired you to get a

Shawn Harper 42:05  

man you just like, you know, like a good coach, you know, he just called me out on that. So,

Ari Gronich 42:12  

you know, it's one of those things, a lot of companies, it's not that they're bad companies, or they don't, you know, it's, it's that they don't even think about the possibilities. You know, I have a company close to me, they've got 50,000 employees, they do $17 billion a year. And they have zero, in my opinion, corporate wellness program in place. And I look at that, and I go, Okay, so you have a community of 50,000 people directly, that would make it approximately 200,000 people indirectly, and then another, approximately, you know, in their surrounding community, couple 100,000, at least, like that's a big responsibility to be shirking.

Shawn Harper 43:14  

Right, but they have a bigger responsibility to their shareholders. Ah, so, yeah, so and so their shareholders are concerned about one word, profit. And, and as long as at the end of the year, you know, we're making, you know, our billions every single year, everyone is satisfied. And I feel good about myself, because that's the metrics in which I measure that. However, if there was another metrics, or another set to say, No, this is this company culture, which is huge, the value of your 50 mile radius of you, you know, that's when you that school is on you, if that's measured. So now what we have to do is that we have to go in and actually draw out those numbers in the state company wide, we are engaged not only on the big number, but we're engaged by these numbers to this is your win. not this, not just this, but this, this, this and legacy.

Ari Gronich 44:18  

Absolutely, absolutely. And just as a, you know, matter of fact, too, is that, statistically speaking, for every eight hours of a work day, the person's basically about three hours of that is is where they're productive, five hours non productive, three hours productive. So if you do things that help your employees take their mind off of their family, their stresses their other things, and you get productivity up, what happens to that profit statement, what happens to that bottom line? Right, is, you literally, let's say, Take 50,000 employees, and per week, you increase their productivity by one hour each. So instead of three hours, you turn it into four hours of productivity, right? So that's 50,000 employees an extra hour of productivity each day, save five hours of productivity each week, take that five hours of productivity and multiply it by the 50,000. People, you got that many more hours of work done? What's your bottom line going to be? Right?

Shawn Harper 45:40  

And, and, and also, you can, you can encourage and incentivize, incentivize, in directly back to the bottom line. It's like, you know, what, if we volunteer or whatever, we have a donor who's going to donate back to you know, or here's our goods and services, that's going to help and eventually, it'll come back to the bottom line. But they're caught up in that, like, let's say, my amazing wife was like, You know what, let's say I want to make like, $20,000. I'm gonna make $20,000 into next year, Okay, done, pay that off. Now. That doesn't impress my wife, who work probably for that company that you're talking about. It's based in Chicago, 50,000 employees. But if I said, You know what, we're going to make this money and we're going to give a portion of it to the needy down the street at the food pantry. Now she's like, oh, and that nice, timid, beautiful lady turns into a warrior goddess, like, Shira, she couldn't get those numbers. So if you find a way to engage people, and say, What is it after the profit? What is it after the money comes in now? What? incorporate and infuse that in your culture in in the day to day, like you mentioned earlier, then yeah, profit is a part of the process. It's not the end game.

Unknown Speaker 47:22  

So

Ari Gronich 47:24  

take this back to the NFL a little bit. And players versus owners. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we're gonna we're gonna play this out, because it plays out in corporations as well as obviously in sports. But I want to get get your boxing gloves on a little bit. Because we're going to, we're going to, you know, share some reality. Sure. How much do the players get taken care of by the owners? Really? And when are the bullies and the people being bullied? When are the people being bullied going to get louder and stop the bullies?

Shawn Harper 48:14  

So let me answer the second one, in my opinion. When you talk about bullies, are you talking about the owners?

Ari Gronich 48:23  

And in many cases, yeah, owners are are so

Shawn Harper 48:28  

I don't see the owners as bullies.

Ari Gronich 48:32  

It is the owners tourney's. Hmm. Maybe it's the owners attorneys

Shawn Harper 48:37  

even No, no, no, no, no, they are CEOs, their business men and women. And they're looking at the bottom line. They're doing what they are supposed to do. And that's winning every facet. Now, what I will say is, is that there needs to be and there has been in a nice to be a whole heck of a lot more of saying, hey, this sport takes a lot from us players. It takes a lot mentally, it takes a lot physically. Now you got the whole CTE that mean, man, you're going to have to open up that wallet. And you're going to have to create situations and circumstances for us to win when the game is over. When we're done playing where's our winner? We're not winning. You're winning, but we're not winning. So guess what? The fact is, is that while we're playing, we're looking at you know, when the game is over, buddy, so that's our win when it's all said and done. So if we don't get the win, win, it's all said and done. You ain't getting the win now. So guess what, we got to come to the table you got to know set a few billion dollars aside of that profit and make sure that we get the win 15 years from that. Nash just beat Oh a you know, that's just that's just the nature of the game. You don't have a vested interest in that because we're gone. But we got a vested interest in it. So we're going to bring it to your attention right now today.

Ari Gronich 50:11  

Yeah. But I I'd say that they do have a vested interest in it, because people are gonna stop playing for major, you know, associations like this. If they're not being taken care of and start moving more towards creating their own organizations and their own their own things. Right.

Shawn Harper 50:35  

And no, you know, that no, it's I mean, other organizations have tried to start their own leagues, the NFL has destroyed every single one of them. You know, it they just roofless it just roof with, the only reason why this is even a conversation right now is the big elephant in the room. And that's social media. You guys 20 years ago, you know, of people stealing this information was still out there. But now I'm getting on Facebook talking about, you know, I'm still suffering from this. Now the media is picking this up, you know, so like, everyone, this is now the elephant in the room that has farted in everyone to smell like we have to deal with this. So now guess what is circling back to the bottom line. We need to deal with this. And so now they're forced to open up their wallets. And so now I think the bigger question is, is that as an owner,

Unknown Speaker 51:36  

should you

Shawn Harper 51:39  

as an owner, should you already have had your wallet open in the first place?

Ari Gronich 51:46  

Yeah, so again, I have my own opinions, right? If we don't want big government, right, and we don't want corporate responsibility, then what? So we don't want government to, you know, on Social Security to get overrun. And we don't want our corporate owners to have to actually take care of the people that made their business for them. Because without the players, there is no business for them. Right? So without that, having that mindset that the bottom line is all I'm looking at, is really short sighted. Because if you think about it, those players when they're well taken care of, can be assets for their entire lives, not just while they're playing the game. And therefore, doing things that are promoting could be good for an owners bottom line. But if they're not taking care of their players, why would they want to do something for the team and the owner that isn't hasn't been taken care of. So that's why I'm saying like, if they actually were to think about it in a way other than mathematically, only mathematics with no context is what I'm saying. Then all of a sudden, the context becomes bigger than the mathematics and the mindset starts going, Yeah, but how can I make that work in my advantage otherwise, and you all of a sudden, open the doors of possibility because you're doing the right thing versus a closed door of a no.

Shawn Harper 53:34  

So check it out. Unlike life, there's only one matrix that drives numbers in the NFL, that's winning. When you go out Davis, you just win if the stadium is packed, the stadium will be packed, if you win. And so they're fixated on this season, how can we win that takes care of so many other things. However, now it like example, if you when the stadium is packed, the TV ratings are up, and there's more money is coming in. Now. However, the NFL owners are like, Wait a second, there are other variables that we've never considered before, like players after care, because now everyone is seeing this. Now we have multibillion dollar lawsuits, it's affecting the bottom line. Now we have the press and negative press as affecting the bottom line. Now we have all of these males, a mom who don't want the kids to play football, no more is affecting the bottom line. 15 1015 years from now. Now we have colleges and their own investigations as affecting the bottom line. Now we have to look at a mosaic of things other than winning on the field in that in and like perfect example, there could be a NFL player who gets you know, a domestic case and you know, and they're waiting to see what the press is going to do. Okay, get a slap on the wrist. You know, because you're good for the game, and then all of a sudden the press blows up like what you did? What do you got? Oh, no, we got to change that why that's now it's affecting the bottom line. So you're not going to get these people to change their mind till you start affecting the bottom line.

Ari Gronich 55:18  

Yeah, so I agree that that is probably the most motivating factor. What I like to attempt to appeal that appeal to is things like common sense, critical thinking and butterfly effect. What are your actions that are? What are the consequences to those actions? What are the consequences to those actions? And what are the consequences to those? And if those are affecting the people who are making your business for you, then you should probably address them at some level, in your mind before they become a problem. And that's goes back to your question, should they have thought of this ahead of you guys making a stink about it? And the answer is yes. If they were thinking far enough ahead to realize that this was going to be a consequence to them not thinking about it to begin with.

Shawn Harper 56:11  

So check it out. You ever watched that movie called? I mean, I mean, well, there's a show is, I think it's called Undercover Boss, right? Yes. And so it's like, you know, here's the CEO, he or she did come in, and they disguise themselves as an employee. Right? And then they work for maybe two or three weeks. What is the common theme? The common theme is, I never knew they had it this bad. Wow, I got to help out. Because I feel it, I see it. These guys and ladies are so far removed from the after life of the game and tell social media don't hear something here and there, they just move in a million miles. And now, they don't care about that. But now they have to care about that. And you know what? I'm not the moral police. I'm not saying well, this is how you should be thinking in this. And this is no, I'm like a put some jam over here for these players. You just keep doing what you're doing. It ain't my job to change your heart and change your mind that day. My job, my job is to make it fair for everyone for years to come and legacy winning legacy.

Ari Gronich 57:28  

So legacy is not just the games you won, but the people you left behind.

Shawn Harper 57:40  

Yes, right. Yes. And right now, you might not be thinking about my legacy. And so I'm going to force you to think about my legacy.

Ari Gronich 57:49  

And I'm forcing you to think about your own legacy and the impact that you've had on the people that have impacted you. So, you know, this is this is the the greatest debate in the world in general right now. And I like to bring it up in these fun ways. Because, you know, we can we can go on about, like, you know, do I care about the owners of the NFL, only in the sense that I've had too many NFL players have to come see me because they were injured, and they don't get taken care of by the teams or the people that, you know, they injured themselves for. And so on that level, I have a kind of an invested thing I want to see the people who are taking care of these players, you know, step up their game, so to speak, so that the players don't have to deal with the injuries quite the same way as they've had to in the past, and will get continuing care afterwards to make sure that their whole by the end of their career, not just at the beginning of it. Right. I think that personal. I think

Shawn Harper 59:01  

that we're both saying the same thing. I think that where we might differ is, is you want a you might from what I'm hearing, when a conscious decision to say, Hey, this is the right thing to do. And while I'm saying I don't care what you think you can I don't care you were going to put it in play a system in play at the taken care of regardless.

Ari Gronich 59:26  

Right. And I get the doing it in spite of Yeah, right. No, yeah. And are you listening people? What what's wrong with being a good person and having integrity and doing the right thing? Like answer that question in a way that isn't just profit over people, right? Because without people you have no profit. Right, right, you have no business, you don't have any, you don't have anything.

Shawn Harper 1:00:04  

And that was the entire argument with the labor in the NFL. Pa who matters more the people that that was their entire argument, we matter more than your profit.

Ari Gronich 1:00:18  

Right. And I extend that because I have these conversations, like I was saying before, because I extend that same thing to the system of medicine, the governmental systems, the things that we're doing, that have nothing to do with getting a good outcome. Right. So we treat patients and we don't cure them. Right? Why not? What's the reason for it? Do you have a good enough explanation? For not talking about the things that make people healthy? You know, do you have a good enough explanation? Because I haven't heard one yet. So I want to get those out. And I like, I like being able to use the metaphor of the owners, because that's just the truth. What are what are some of the things that you love talking about when you're giving these talks to people, though, because I know, you know, you talk a lot about obviously, the sport and adversity and you're taking business, but what's what's the main themes like, give me three to four main themes of what you talk about in your talks, and then what somebody can actually do with those talks to create a new tomorrow today.

Shawn Harper 1:01:47  

I love I love to talk or the, or the nest that I come from, is mind shift. It's different mindsets. You know, it's it's, a lot of people think the way that they think, because they have a particular worldview. And that worldview has to be challenged in order for you to win. Let me give you an example of a worldview. A worldview is, you know what, you're going to work your butt off, and at the age of 65, you'll retire and you'll have and this and the money will be in a 401k and blah, that's a worldview. That's not accurate, because over 90% of people are dead or dead broke by 10, or 65, depending on the government for their their primary source of income over 90%. Okay, that's not an accurate worldview, the worldview up until recently was the best investment is your home, and we know right now, well, I'm gonna tell you right now, you know, unless you got some real estate that appreciates about 10 to 15% a year, your home is not your number one investment, let's, let's attack the world view. Like, I'm a emerging business owner, I don't say small business, because that's an oxymoron. I'm an emerging business owner. So, you know, I love what they give us. These are, these are the techniques and strategies you can use to grow your business, but I'm taking a step back, and I'm looking at them differently now. Because in within five years, you know, 85% of all businesses will go out of business, why wait a second, you know, if we're all listening to the same thing, you know, I take a you know, a take a shift with our actual with our actual educational system. I'm like, you know what, I got a problem with you guys. You know, I need to challenge the mindset that you've been taught it with your educational system that getting a collegiate education with $200,000 student loans is a great idea, it might not be a good idea. So I teach you this change in shift your mind to win in this game of life, just like the 46 bear was a man de Dahomey coaches were like, This is not fair. What is this? What is this 44th all the guys are down, what's a different mindset? And sometimes you gotta think outside the box and not get comfortable because if you're not careful, your comfort zone will become your casket.

Ari Gronich 1:04:18  

Okay, so that I'm just gonna do the mic drop on that one.

You've heard a few of those, right?

Shawn Harper 1:04:33  

Yeah, just one or two. One or two?

Ari Gronich 1:04:36  

Yeah. So that's, you know, that's a mic drop moment. So now we know, okay, change your mindset. If somebody said that to me, I might go. Okay, I haven't heard that one before. Right. So let's give some tricks. Tips. How Choose, how did you change your mindset? And what are some ways that somebody can begin to change their mindset, especially when our mindsets are pretty engraved in our brains?

Shawn Harper 1:05:15  

Yeah, think differently. So you have to the the, the, the number one mindset that you have to change first and foremost, is your identity. That that's it right there is that, for me, I am a winner. That is the biggest mindset, right? That you, you have to change that because it changes your perspective, it changes your approach to life. Let me give you an example. If I'm on a roller coaster, like a six flags, right, and, and I'm in a roller coaster car, or let's use something a bit more that people can understand if, if I'm on a ferris wheel, and the bears will is up there, and I'm going around the Ferris wheel and it gets stopped at the top. I know it's a ride. So I can be a little nervous. But it's cool, you know, because it's a ride. I'm on a ferris wheel, you know, 300 feet in the air? And I don't know, what's her ride. And I don't know, if I'm gonna make it down. Do you know how scared I'm gonna be? I'm gonna be very scared. So when you approach this game of life, if you don't know who you are in this game, and if you don't know your projected outcome, and this is what I am, and this is what I do. In this game, the game is going to take you for a ride, if I step on the football field, without a jersey on, nobody recognizes me, your identity is everything. So my identity is that I am a winner. And so now I approach life from that. So naturally, when I start doing is I start studying other winners, then I start pulling laws from other winners, like a perfect example, is a guy named Walt Disney, Walt Disney was a winner. And he had Disney Land and he was landlocked. He couldn't build. So guess what he hired a team of people to secretly start buying acreage in Orlando, he brought up close to 30,000 acres of land before they realized what he was doing. That's a lot of capacity winners, always create capacity winners, always build teams, winners. Always start with the end in mind, Stephen Covey winners, always learn how to win and accept loss and learn from the loss. When we lose your study, you go to the field room and you understand your loss winners know their competition winners know themselves. Okay, and so now it's, it's a totally different mindset. But it starts with your identity. Because if you don't know who you are, you're who they say you are. And once somebody can name you, it has all authority and a power over you

Ari Gronich 1:08:03  

don't know who you are, if you don't know who you are, you only know

Shawn Harper 1:08:09  

if you don't know who you are, you are who they say you are,

Ari Gronich 1:08:11  

you're who they say you are. Got it. Wow, it's pretty powerful. It's kind of like abrogating your personality and your who you are to the rest of the world. You know, it's interesting because a lot of people tend to do that and mask themselves off without even realizing that they've put a mask on.

Shawn Harper 1:08:37  

Yeah. That's image. Because we value image, we don't value identity.

Ari Gronich 1:08:48  

So how does one go about taking the mask off?

Shawn Harper 1:08:54  

integrity with yourself being truthful. And understand that it's okay to be everyone is like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. You have strengths that poke out and you have weaknesses that poke in you have to be willing in okay with you in our in our society makes us so discontent to be who we are. That's why you want to spend all that money for a daggone Mercedes and live in a certain housing development where certain you always trying to become but you can never become unless you be so you know what, just be you and be happy with who you are.

Ari Gronich 1:09:35  

Nice. I think I think we'll leave the audience off with that. Because you know, what else? What else is there but being comfortable with? Yeah, you are and taking that out to the world. Yeah.

Shawn Harper 1:09:58  

This listeners listen. Because you get me on a roll here, I was gonna say one thing, okay? We are all in the business of selling. Okay? But before you try to sell anything to anyone else you sell to yourself, sell yourself in the mirror, you sell yourself, you're awesome. You're this thing that you sell yourself, before you sell to anyone else. sell yourself and never sell yourself short.

Ari Gronich 1:10:29  

But you're more than welcome to rant on my show any day. And get on a roll. And I really appreciate you being here and giving to the audience like this, like you have. I know, I asked some pretty crazy questions, gets you off off your normal game, hopefully a little bit. I like to, you know, throw the curves. Not just the past that straight nicely spiraled, but the ones that lemon out, you know. So. So I appreciate you being here. And, and we will, you know, we'll, we'll continue on these conversations. And hopefully the audience got a lot out of this. I'm sure that they did. And remember to rate subscribe, comment, like review, etc. Shawn, how can people get ahold of you if they'd like to? work with you?

Shawn Harper 1:11:30  

Yeah, so my actual website is Shawnharper.org. Or Seanspeaks.com Yeah, use Sean speaks.com. I'm giving away a free chapter of my book. And it's Sean Harper wins, w ins.com. And no, don't worry about that. Go to Shawn harper.co, you'll get the full book, I'll give you a full book, you get the full book and the Winning Edge understanding, winning strategies and tactics. Since we've talked about that, you pull that out, go to Shawn harper.co, you get the entire book for free. You ain't gotta go to Amazon. Yours. And last thing I'll say is, this is me, selfishly is Shawn Harper speaker on Instagram.

Ari Gronich 1:12:21  

That's it. That's awesome. Thank you so much for for that gift. I know that that'll be in and of itself a great value for the audience. So remember to go there, Shawnharper.com and get a copy of his book. And winning earn yourself. Yeah. And so winning mindsets. This has been a great new tomorrow episode. And let's remember to create a new tomorrow today. Activate your vision for a better world. I am your host Ari Gronich. Thank you so much, Shawn, for coming on. And we'd be out. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Shawn Harper, He Is An Experience Packed With High Energy And Never A Dull Moment. Shawn Rips Phone Books, Rolls Up Frying Pans And Carries Humans On His Back To Deliver A Winning Keynote Performance Customized To Fit Your Goals And Audience

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY SHAWN TO LEARN MORE

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JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

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https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Shawn Harper 0:00  

I'm not going to be that person trying to squeeze out for five more years and you know, it was just one day I just woke up you know towards the end I actually finished up in NFL Europe and and matt black for Kurt Warner you know and and when they I woke up and I was like you know what is over game over? It's time for It's time for it is time for another game. It's time for another game or another aspect of the game

Hi, I am here with Calin Correli, He is the Founder & CEO of Simplero.com - a fully integrated platform for coaches to transform lives at scale. Future special advisor to the President of the United States on conscious nation-building. He is an expert on personal and spiritual growth.

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY CALVIN CORRELI TO LEARN MORE

https://calvincorreli.com/

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:07  

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I'm your host Ari Gronich and remember to LIKE SUBSCRIBE rate review comments below, do all of those things so we can start conversations that matter and create a new tomorrow today. Today with me I have Calvin Corelli. Calvin is a sass founder, serial entrepreneur and spiritual teacher, he founded a company called sin pleroma, which is an integrated software platform for coaches, authors, speakers, and other information marketers to run their entire business in one place. So that's pretty cool. But he calls that more Alas, instead of a SAS, which is love as a service versus software as a surface. So, you know, your your mission is amazing. And I'm gonna let you tell a little bit more about who you are why you created this platform, but more than anything, what what it is that you think the world needs to do, and us, you know, in it can do to make the world a little bit better place. So we'll get started with with just kind of your your quick bio, tell us a little bit about how you became who you are.

Calvin Correli 1:29  

Absolutely, yeah, thank you so much. I super appreciate you having me on here. Looking forward to the conversation with you today. I started simpler. So I was born and raised in Denmark and and, you know, was building always sort of an entrepreneur, both my parents were entrepreneurs, I got into computers and programming super early when I was like five or six years old, and got off to a good start on my career, always working pretty much always working for myself, I had one job for a company in Boston, just around the year 2000. But that was it. But then really got into struggling as an underdog were really kind of struggling all around as a human being to be honest, I felt like I had failed as a as a father as a husband, as a son to my parents as an entrepreneur, on all levels. And so it really got me down this path of soul searching of discovering questioning beliefs, learning to feel I was I grew up like I don't you can recognize this from yourself or clients, right? Like just not able to feel a thing. It was like I was living from my neck up. And all of his feeling stuff was like, a mystery. And it was just every once in a while it explode. So I went through that process of therapy and coaching and body therapy and working with a spiritual teacher. And that was what led to a moment where I was like, you know, finally asking myself the question, What am I here to do? What is it I really want to do versus just trying to be successful? Just trying to make money just trying to make ends meet? Right? So yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:13  

So.

Ari Gronich 3:15  

So then, you know, my contrarian point of view in life is, so if business is at the heart of the possibility of solving the world's problems, why do you think we've allowed companies, as conglomerations of people to do things that are the antithesis of solving the world's problems? More on the side of creating issues where there maybe previously weren't any issues? Right? Yeah.

Calvin Correli 3:49  

So I mean, it's a good question, right? Like, I think the short answer is because we're humans, right? Because I mean, it's not isolated to to companies, obviously governments do you know, their fair share problems. I think, anytime humans come together, we we create a mess because we are a mess, which is why for me the goal really is to raise the conscious level I talk about physical, mental, emotional, spiritual maturity, those four right? Physical we got to be healthy body and mind are not separate, right? If your body is a mess, your mind is a mess. Mental learning to question your beliefs, just you know, realizing that you are not your thoughts, you are not your ideas about yourself, right. emotional maturity, learning to not suppress feelings, not vomit them out and identify with your feelings, but just feel them and let them flow through you. And spiritual in the sense of having a sense of a bigger purpose in life, some sort of meaning without it or lost, right. And they all tie together. And and so once that happens And we grow up as people, I think I bet you would agree the most, quote unquote adults in the world right now are really kind of children emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, right? It just happened to be in a in a in an adult body. So there is really is like a big massive maturity that needs to happen in the world. If we want to solve these problems, and once that happens, solving the problems becomes fairly easy. And then business and government can become a vehicle for solving those challenges. But when it's done unconsciously, yeah, it's gonna have the opposite effect.

Ari Gronich 5:36  

Yeah, it's interesting, some of the statistics that I've that I've heard, and and research is that people are approximately the age of their first major trauma.

Calvin Correli 5:49  

And don't make sense yeah,

Ari Gronich 5:51  

or that first major trauma happened, they kind of you kind of get locked in, yep, the maturity level of that age. And then anytime something triggers that the same feeling that happened with that trauma, you revert back to that age of a person and that reaction and those kinds of things. So it's kind of an interesting way of looking at it and perspective. And, you know, in my world, as a, as a therapist, and healer, and so on, the only way to solve that problem is to go after the issues that are in the tissues, so to speak. Or, you know, you have a some somatic trauma, which basically means a trauma to your physical self. And the only way to heal that trauma is to go directly to where that trauma occurred. And so an emotional trauma almost always happens in the body, as well. So when you look at like Chinese medicine, anger lives in liver wery, lives in the kidneys, the sweetness of life, in your pancreas, the lungs are joy, you know, feeling joy, your stomach is contentment. And so these emotions, you can imagine anytime somebody says, right, you know, I'm feeling this this, you know, little queasiness in my gut? Well, that's an emotion that's creating a physical response. Right?

Unknown Speaker 7:33  

Yeah.

Ari Gronich 7:34  

Tell us how you've come along this, this journey of finding out that, you know, you are having some of these kinds of issues. And what did you do? Like, I mean, the actual steps that you took to start the process of healing, and let's go with the beginning of that process, because, you know, I know a lot of people, it's the beginning that they struggle with the most. Yeah,

Calvin Correli 8:03  

so let me just on what you were saying with the issue in the tissue and the ages for so I was fortunate because I'm from Denmark, I discovered there's a there's a therapy form there called body SDS, which is body therapy is a system that's developed in Denmark by this incredible genius has passed now, but they're like third and fourth generation are now actively, you know, working on it, my friend, I've become friend with the founder of the education there. He's 5657 karate champion has educated 600 therapists over there. So it's one of my projects is actually to bring that to the US. Because I have tried a ton of different things. And this is just so powerful, I really getting to those core wounds in the body, because a lot of this stuff is you can't really get through it with words, because it's pre cognition. And so the body is such a powerful tool. So I'm so with you on that.

Ari Gronich 9:03  

Interesting. So let's talk about the menu. So the menu, they found, as if it's more than two pages, it causes people to go into choice overwhelm.

Calvin Correli 9:22  

If we talk about like food menus at a restaurant, what kind of

Ari Gronich 9:25  

restaurant they found, the science this study, the research has found that if there's more than two pages on a restaurant menu, then people go into choice, overwhelm, and they are less satisfied with their choice than if they have a one page or a two page menu, and only have certain things that they can get. They choose what they want. And they're happy with their choice because the limit, so you talks about going onto Google, Google is to me A couple billion page menu. And you know, you got Dr. Google you got, you know, that a lot of people are using for their, their, their medical questions. But the idea behind this is that, do we have too many choices, and not enough truth to where people can't make a decision, they get overwhelmed with information and all of a sudden, they can't make a choice, they can't make a decision, they can't make an action because of this overwhelm. And, and now they're not satisfied because of too much choice.

Calvin Correli 10:38  

Well, yes. And I mean, that's not gonna go away, right? That's never gonna change. So we That's just a fact that we have to adapt. Like, the the being unhappy with your choice is just back to what we were talking about a while ago with, like, you know, believing your thoughts, right, so. So just ignore that voice. It's one of the things that we're not, it seems we're not teaching people is like fundamental thinking skills. But I'm not even gonna say critical thinking skills, just any kind of thinking, honestly, is in short supply. Right? So so just learning to be like, Okay, what is the problem? What is the outcome that I want? Even? I mean, honestly, even that is one of the things that fascinates me about politics, is we're constantly debating this intervention or policy versus that. And nobody's saying, Well, hey, why don't we stop it stop for a second? What does success look like? What do we actually want to achieve here? And like, Can we get agreement on that first? And then Alright, what parameters? Are there for a solution for an for a strategy where like, what values do we have? Can we get agreement that and then we can start brainstorm solutions, right? But if you haven't figured out what you want first, then nothing else makes sense. Right now, though, everything else just becomes a waste of time. And we people don't get these basic things about how to solve problems. I see it too in business, so many people who are focused on tasks, what are the things I need to do? And I'm like, well, but like, it's not working. We're like, this is what this is the goal. This is the outcome, like, what else can we try? Right? Because that didn't work. And so there's some fundamental thinking skills that people are missing. So

Ari Gronich 12:20  

yeah, this is one of the biggest issues that I have system wide in almost every system that we've created in the last 20 plus years. Maybe 30, maybe 40 depends on the system is we're all about procedures versus results. So we do digital marketing right now, because that's my biggest challenge. I'm not a digital marketer, put a body in front of me, I could turn it into Olympic champion, not a problem. Easy peasy. Put a computer in front of me and tell me to digitally market with web hooks and funnels and triggers and minutiae. And I go back. And so as I go to hire people, my biggest frustration is they're trying to charge me for tasks like, well, if I put 15 posts on your Instagram, that's going to be this amount of money. If I post, if I if I add, Instagram and Twitter, that's that amount of money, even though it's the same post and I created it, and I just took twice, but I'm gonna charge more. And then if I do this, it's that amount of money. Like, okay, so what are the results that are going to come? Well, I can't guarantee results. And I go, Okay, and then I look at medicine and I see the same thing. It's, we need to do an MRI or an MRI for for a knee injury, right? So you tear meniscus or muscle ligament, you need to do an MRI. But if you go to a doctor, first thing that you got to do is an X ray. Why? Because you got to do an X ray before you do an MRI. Why? X ray is not going to show me what an MRI is gonna show me. So why do I need to do the X ray first? It's another procedure. It's another task. It's another thing that makes absolutely no difference in outcome. Zero, zilch. Nada

Calvin Correli 14:21  

for you. But for them. It makes pocket book right

Ari Gronich 14:25  

make pocket book. But what that does is it creates a scenario in which we create incentivized fraud only, right? we incentivize fraud by doing those kinds of things. We do it in companies, we do it in business, we do it and all kinds of the aspects of our life these days, because we're doing task as you said, versus results. And so let's talk about that a little bit because I just had my now my nice little rant but what do you think the cost is of Task versus result oriented thinking

Calvin Correli 15:03  

oh boy, I mean it's it's massive right it's everywhere and it's it's the it's the lack of transparency in in choosing right because if you could choose between doctors that did it one way versus the other like duh right but there's no transparency there oftentimes there's there's like de facto monopolies so and then it's the population just being aware of it and and and choosing based on that we have this tendency to just give her authority away to whomever right i think it was Warner Earhart, founder of s back in the day he had the saying that people walk around with their umbilical cord in hand just looking for someone to plug it in somewhere somewhere to plug it into, which I think is a great way to say it. I think it's really true like people are constantly looking to outsource their authority to someone right or something. So yeah. But it's it's it's everywhere. It's like one of my pet peeves is the the whole cookie thing like EU and GDPR all these privacy laws and like these specialties like cookie banners that pop up everywhere, it's like they're designed for people who visit like one or two websites per week, or maybe per day, right? But when you visit like 50 to 100 websites in a day you end up like clicking that damn thing over and over again. And we condition people just click the the Yeah, whatever, go away, right? Like we we don't read them, we can't. And so that's another like, someone is making a law. That's like making us more private see secure or whatever, on paper, but in practice, it does nothing. It does the exact opposite, at great cost to every company business needs to implement this every user of the internet that needs to click these stupid ass things, right? It's it's just, there's no accountability. We're not holding other people, businesses, politicians, bureaucrats accountable for actual results. And there's that yeah, it's like a lack of culture of thinking that way. The cost is a mess.

Ari Gronich 17:10  

Thank you so much, Calvin for coming on. I know the audience has gotten a lot of benefit from this conversation and the things that you had to say. And so I really am grateful for this conversation for you helping people create their new tomorrow today and activate their vision for a better world. I am your host, Ari Gronich. And this is awesome conversations with Ari. No, it's not. It's it's just creating a new tomorrow. But remember to LIKE subscribe, rate review, comment below so we can start conversations that move the country forward, moving ourselves forward, and create your new tomorrow today. Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.