Derisky Business

By Center for a New American SecurityBusiness

Derisky Business episodes

December 04, 2025 What if 'America First' Appears to Work? With Tom Wright
Tom Wright joins to talk about his recent article, “What if 'America First' Appears to Work?" about the Trump administration’s “might makes right” approach to foreign policy, and whether this strategy is more politically viable than perhaps it should be, at least in the short term. Tom is senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and former senior director of strategic planning at the NSC under the Biden Administration.
Thomas Wright, "What If ‘America First’ Appears to Work?”, The Atlantic

Dan Wang, Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future
48 min
November 20, 2025 BONUS: The Future of IEPPA Tariffs with Francesca Ghiretti
In a bonus episode this week, we're sharing an episode of the great Geoeconomic Competition podcast hosted by Francesca Ghiretti, director of the RAND Europe China Initiative and a research leader at RAND Europe. Geoff was a recent guest on the podcast to discuss Trump's tariffs and the future of US trade policy.
Listen to the Geoeconomic Competition podcast here.

Derisky Business is off next week for Thanksgiving, with episodes returning the following week.

42 min
November 13, 2025 The Real Impact of SCOTUS's Tariff Hearing with Kathleen Claussen
Kathleen Claussen, Professor of Law at Georgetown University, joins Emily and Geoff to discuss the SCOTUS case on Trump's tariffs. They share their insights from the recent SCOTUS hearing, explore possible outcomes of the case, and lay out how the Trump administration will likely respond if some or all of the tariffs are struck down. Plus, Kathleen shares why she's not placing any Polymarket bets on the case's outcome.
Kathleen Claussen and Timothy Meyer, “The Foreign Commerce Power,” California Law Review, forthcoming, Duke Law School Public Law & Legal Theory Series No. 2025-44, August 24, 2025
Oral Arguments before the Supreme Court on the Legality of IEEPA Tariffs
International Economic Law and Policy Blog

50 min
October 30, 2025 What's an Economic Security Agreement and Why Does the U.S. Need Them? With Peter Harrell
Derisky Business is returning for season 2! After a brief hiatus in which obviously nothing (nothing!) notable happened in the world of trade and economic security, Emily and Geoff are back to dive into all your favorite economic security topics. In their first episode back, they are joined by Peter Harrell, the host of the "Security Economics" podcast, to discuss the concept of economic security agreements and why the U.S. should start bringing economic security priorities like export controls into formal trade deals.

Geoffrey Gertz and Emily Kilcrease, “A World Safe for Prosperity-How America Can Foster Economic Security”, Foreign Affairs, February 6, 2025

Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz, “Launch Economic Security Agreements” in CNAS Report: The First 100 Days

Peter Harrell, “How Trump’s trade agreements can reduce US and allied economic ties with China”, Journal of International Economic Law, July 2, 2025

Geoffrey Gertz, Analysis of the new US-Malaysia trade agreement, LinkedIn
1 hr 2 min
August 13, 2025 Selling H20 Chips to China Will Come at a Cost, with Liza Tobin
We interrupt our summer break to provide quick reactions to news this week that the Trump administration will begin allowing Nvidia and AMD to sell certain advanced semiconductors to China - so long as those companies agree to pay a commission fee to the U.S. government. While Emily is on vacation, Geoff is joined by CNAS Adjunct Senior Fellow and Managing Director of Garnaut Global Liza Tobin to dig into how we got to this point, if this arrangement is even legal, and what it means for the future of U.S.-China tech competition.

Matt Pottinger and Liza Tobin, “Trump Just Handed China the Tools to Beat America in AI”, The Free Press, August 11, 2025
Chris Miller, “China has its own concerns about Nvidia H20 chips”, Financial Times, August 11, 2025
Charles Rollet, “China's military tried to buy Nvidia chips for AI servers and a robot dog”, Business Insider, August 1, 2025
45 min
August 06, 2025 Game Over? How the United States Could Have Won the Trade Wars
Emily and Geoff break their summer hiatus to launch a new CNAS report detailing insights from a trade wargame that examined how foreign governments might respond to a dramatic increase in U.S. tariffs. For this live event they are joined by trade experts Wendy Cutler, Meredith Lilly, and Thorsten Benner to discuss the report and catch up on the real-world trade wars. Derisky Business will return to regular programming in the fall.
Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz, Game Over? How the United States Could Have Won the Trade Wars
1 hr 6 min
July 10, 2025 Happy Summer from Derisky Business!
While Derisky Business goes on summer break, revisit your favorite episodes of the podcast and dive into the Summer Reading List, featuring book recommendations from previous podcast guests and work from CNAS experts. Emily and Geoff will be back in the fall to catch up on all the economic security happenings.

Read the list here!

https://www.cnas.org/publications/commentary/happy-summer-from-derisky-business
3 min
June 26, 2025 Richard Nephew on the U.S. military strikes on Iran’s nuclear program
Richard Nephew, expert on sanctions and Iran’s nuclear program, joins Emily and Geoff to discuss the long history of U.S. policy towards Iran, the role of sanctions in constraining Iran’s nuclear program, and why the United States decided to proceed with military strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities. He also explains why the next phase of Iran’s nuclear program might be the most dangerous.

Notes:

Richard Nephew, The Art of Sanctions: A View from the Field

Richard Nephew, “A Last Chance for Iran,” Foreign Affairs

Richard Nephew, “Can Israel Destroy Iran’s Nuclear Program?” Foreign Affairs

Thomas Schelling, Arms and Influence

Suzanne Maloney, Political Economy of Iran Since the Revolution
50 min
June 12, 2025 Tariffs & and the Defense Industrial Base with Becca Wasser, plus what’s new in the U.S.-China trade war
Geoff and Emily debrief on the latest news in the U.S.-China trade talks. Becca Wasser, senior fellow and deputy director of the CNAS defense program, joins to talk about what Trump’s tariffs mean for the defense industrial base.Shownotes:
Becca Wasser and Phil Sheers,
“From Production Lines to Front Lines,” CNAS

Keith Bradsher, “China’s Chokehold on This Obscure Mineral Threatens the West’s Militaries,” The New York Times

Peter Foster, Demetri Sevastopulo, and Joe Leahy, “US and China agree to framework deal to restore trade war truce,” Financial Times

Arthur L. Herman, Freedom’s Forge (Amazon link)

Jenny Leonard and Mackenzie Hawkins, "US Makes Export Controls Negotiable as Part of China Trade Talks", Bloomberg

CNAS Annual Conference
50 min
June 05, 2025 LIVE: Derisky Business at the CNAS 2025 National Security Conference
To celebrate the podcast's one year anniversary, Emily and Geoff break down some big picture questions on how the trade wars are unfolding and the future of the global economic order.
Find all sessions and more at conference.cnas.org
42 min

About Derisky Business

From the publisher's feed

“Derisky Business” is a show that explores economic security issues within the broader national security and foreign policy landscape. Hosts Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz dive into the weeds on issues like export controls, tariffs, and trade, linking these issues to broader debates on how to advance U.S. global economic leadership during times of geopolitical turbulence.