Ditching Hourly

LinkedIn Ghostwriter Pranav Kale joined me on Ditching Hourly to do a reverse interview about what I've learned during my recent experiment of posting daily on LinkedIn.

Pranav’s Links: 

• Website: https://www.pranavkale.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pranavkale120/

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Matt Kerbis, also known as the Subscription Attorney, joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his novel approach to ditching hourly billing in the legal space with a subscription model.

Matt's bio from his website:

”My name is Mathew Kerbis, I’m The Subscription Attorney, and I believe subscriptions can help bridge the access to justice gap and incentivize attorneys to modernize and scale their practice like never before.”

Matt's links:

Website:
https://www.lawsubscribed.com/about

LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerbisverse/

Substack:
https://substack.com/@lawsubscribed

The Law For Kids Podcast:
https://www.lawforkidspodcast.com/

AI-Generated Info:

Summary

In this conversation, Jonathan Stark interviews Matt Kerbis, also known as the Subscription Attorney, about his novel approach to ditching hourly billing in the legal space with a subscription model. Matt explains how he offers affordable and accessible legal services through different subscription tiers based on the client's needs. He discusses the pricing structure, the scope of services provided, and the use of automation tools to streamline his practice. Matt also addresses the challenges and benefits of implementing a subscription model in the legal industry. Mathew Kerbis discusses his unique subscription-based law firm model and the client experience. He explains that while his model is one of a kind, there are other attorneys using the subscription model in different ways. Mathew highlights the importance of educating clients about the subscription model and the client portal. He also discusses the challenges of marketing a new business model and the slow process of building traction. Mathew emphasizes the value of problem avoidance and the benefits of being a generalist in the legal space. He advises those interested in experimenting with subscription models to start narrow and go broad.

Takeaways

• Matt Kerbis offers affordable and accessible legal services through a subscription model.
• The pricing structure includes different tiers based on the client's needs, with options for individuals, freelancers, and business owners.
• Matt uses automation tools and no-code solutions to streamline his practice and deliver services efficiently.
• Churn is a key consideration in the subscription model, and Matt focuses on delighting his clients to reduce churn and increase client satisfaction.
• While a pure subscription model may not work for all legal services, a hybrid approach combining subscriptions and alternative fee-based pricing can be effective. Mathew Kerbis has a unique subscription-based law firm model that is one of a kind.
• Educating clients about the subscription model and the client portal is crucial for their understanding and comfort.
• Marketing a new business model can be challenging, especially in the legal space.
• Building traction and gaining clients takes time and persistence.
• Problem avoidance is a valuable selling point, and being a generalist can be advantageous in the legal industry.
• For those interested in experimenting with subscription models, starting narrow and going broad is a recommended approach.

Sound Bites

• "I'm the subscription attorney because I was sick and tired of billing time as an attorney."—MK
• "My whole goal was accessibility while also still trying to be profitable."—MK
• "People don't like talking to their lawyer. They have better things to do in their life."—MK
• "There are probably hundreds of attorneys using the subscription model in some way."—MK
• "I make it really easy to schedule a ‘no legal advice’, 15-minute introductory call with me."—MK

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Ben Zettler, owner and founder of Zettler Digital, joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss pricing tactics for agencies.

Ben's Links:

• Zettler Digital
• Ben's LinkedIn

AI-Generated Stuff:

SUMMARY

Ben Zettler, owner and founder of Zettler Digital, joins Jonathan Stark to discuss value pricing for agencies. Ben shares his background in sports and how he transitioned into building his agency. They discuss the initial conversations with potential clients, the importance of understanding their needs and goals, and how to convert those conversations into proposals. Ben also talks about the value of offering free work, conducting audits, and providing strategy sessions to build trust with clients. They explore the use of data to quantify the potential impact of their services and the challenges of pricing for smaller businesses. Ben Zettler discusses the ideal clients for his agency and the different options he offers them. He emphasizes the importance of working with decision-makers and the challenges of communicating value in proposals. Ben also talks about the shift in his business from project-oriented work to retained services. He shares his experience with client churn and the need to constantly find new opportunities. Ben provides insights into pricing and the difficulties of structuring fees for ongoing services. He concludes by highlighting the value of LinkedIn for marketing and networking.

TAKEAWAYS

• Understanding the client's needs and goals is crucial in creating a proposal for value pricing.
• Offering free work, such as audits and strategy sessions, can help build trust with potential clients.
• Quantifying the potential impact of services using data can help justify pricing.
• Smaller businesses may be more hesitant to share revenue information, but it is important to understand the potential impact of services.
• The market has shifted towards longer decision timelines and more evaluation of service providers. Working with decision-makers is ideal in most situations, regardless of the size of the business.
• Communicating value in proposals can be challenging, especially when clients compare prices to other services.
• Shifting from project-oriented work to retained services can provide stability and consistent revenue.
• Client churn is inevitable, so it's important to constantly find new opportunities and maintain a marketing engine.
• Pricing ongoing services can be difficult, and it's important to consider the value provided and the client's budget.
• LinkedIn is a valuable platform for marketing and networking in the services industry.

CHAPTERS

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 08:14 Offering Free Work to Build Trust
• 17:17 Converting Conversations into Proposals
• 23:03 Quantifying the Potential Impact of Services
• 27:26 Challenges of Pricing for Smaller Businesses
• 31:07 The Shifting Market for Service Providers
• 35:44 Shifting to Retained Services
• 41:15 Dealing with Client Churn
• 46:19 Pricing Ongoing Services
• 53:11 Leveraging LinkedIn

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Strategic lawyer and IP expert Erin Austin joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about the intersection of plagiarism, copyright infringement, and generative AI. 

Erin's Bio

A graduate of Harvard Law School, Erin Austin is a strategic lawyer and consultant who uses her 25+ years of practicing law, including roles as COO and general counsel at large and small IP-driven companies, including Warner Brothers, Lionsgate (formerly known as Artisan), MGM, Teaching Strategies, and M3 USA Corp, to help female founders of expertise-based firms build and protect saleable assets so that the business is ready to sell when the founder is ready to exit.

Erin's Links

• https://www.thinkbeyondip.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

AI-Generated Stuff

Summary

In this conversation, Jonathan Stark and Erin Austin discuss the legal and ethical issues surrounding AI. They explore the difference between plagiarism and copyright infringement, the ethical obligations of giving credit, and the copyright protection of AI-generated content. They also touch on the parallel between AI and ghostwriters, the copyright situation with reference materials like encyclopedias, and the challenge of tracing ideas back to their original source. The conversation explores the impact of digital technology on copyright and intellectual property. They discuss the ease of copying and plagiarism in the digital age, the potential for copyright infringement with AI-generated content, and the importance of copyright registration. They also touch on the challenges of compensating creators in the age of AI and the potential for job disruption. Overall, they express optimism about the benefits of AI while acknowledging the need for responsible use.

Takeaways

• Plagiarism is the ethical breach of stealing someone else's ideas, while copyright infringement is the legal issue of using someone's protected work without permission.
• AI-generated content is not eligible for copyright protection because it is not created by a human, but there are gradations of AI involvement that can still receive protection.
• There is little ethical breach in not crediting AI for its output, as AI is not the creator of ideas, and the output is often not considered thought leadership.
• When using AI-generated content, it is important to ensure that it does not infringe on someone else's copyright and to add a layer of creativity if you want to be eligible for copyright protection.
• The copyright situation with AI is complex and depends on factors such as the level of AI involvement, the nature of the work, and the agreements in place.
• Tracing ideas back to their original source can be challenging, and the expression of ideas is what is protected by copyright law, not the ideas themselves. The digital nature of content makes it easier to copy and plagiarize, leading to copyright infringement.
• Copyright registration is important to protect intellectual property rights and provide evidence of ownership.
• AI-generated content raises questions about compensating creators and the need for new licensing models.
• Job disruption is a concern with the rise of AI, but a slow transition may allow for adaptation and new opportunities.
• Responsible use of AI is crucial to avoid ethical and legal issues.

Sound Bites

• "We do not have ethical obligations to AI. It is not the creator of any ideas."
• "Are we getting something that would be considered thought leadership? And my experience is that we aren't."
• "AI-generated content is not eligible for copyright protection because US copyright law requires that the original content be created by a human."
• "I assume there's some sort of AI, something that can change it for them."
• "You can kind of be copyrighted out of your own stuff."
• "When there are billions of data points out there, how are you going to compensate all the people who may have rights in the data sets?"

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 05:01 Ethical Obligations of Giving Credit to AI
• 09:46 Copyright Protection of AI-Generated Content
• 20:50 Copyright Situation with Reference Materials
• 27:50 Challenge of Tracing Ideas Back to Their Source
• 30:50 Introduction and Digital Nature of Content
• 36:10 Copyright Infringement and Remixing in Music
• 39:26 Compensating Creators and Copyright Ownership
• 41:12 Ownership of User-Generated Content on Platforms
• 44:41 AI's Collection of Data and Privacy Concerns
• 48:23 Optimism about AI and Responsible Use
• 51:10 Job Disruption and Transition with AI
• 53:45 Conclusion and Where to Find More Information

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Co-founder and Head of Design at Under, Eden Vidal, joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about productizing design sprints, optimizing your business to suit your personality, and convincing contractors to ditch hourly billing.

Eden's Links:

• https://edenvidal.com/
• https://weareunder.design/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/edenvidal/

AI Summary:

Eden Vidal, a designer and developer, shares his success with value-based concepts for his design studio. He specializes in brand sprints, a niche methodology for running branding processes for young technology companies. The brand sprint focuses on creating a brand story and developing a visual language, primarily for the homepage of a website. Eden emphasizes the importance of speed and delivering quick and fancy results for startups. The ideal clients for brand sprints are funded startups that already have some branding but feel a mismatch and a need for a quick and premium solution. Eden discusses his approach to managing his time between brand sprints and his own creative projects. He explains that while his wife focuses on optimizing brand sprints, he wants to pursue more and work on his own entrepreneurial ventures. They also discuss the challenges of transitioning from hourly contracts to fixed-price projects and the importance of clear communication and expectations. Eden shares his experience of hiring contractors and the benefits of focusing on delivering results rather than selling time. They also explore the idea of creating a platform that simplifies the process of defining project requirements and finding the right freelancers.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 06:22 The 10-Day Brand Sprint Process
• 08:38 Ideal Clients for Brand Sprints
• 29:16 Balancing Brand Sprints and Personal Creative Projects
• 37:36 Transitioning from Hourly Contracts to Fixed-Price Projects
• 42:18 The Benefits of Delivering Results Instead of Selling Time
• 53:01 Simplifying the Freelancer Hiring Process with a Platform

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Sam Browne, lifestyle entrepreneur and LinkedIn expert with more than 100k followers joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his insights on growing your audience on LinkedIn.

Sam’s Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-browne/
• Gumroad: https://sambrowne.gumroad.com/

Takeaways

• Know what you want to be known for on LinkedIn and focus on educational content to build authority.
• Map out a series of questions to answer in your content and use case studies and testimonials to showcase the value of your work.
• Engage with comments on your own posts and on other people’s posts to build relationships and expand your network.
• Frequency of posting is flexible, but consistency is key. Replying to comments on LinkedIn posts is important, especially for thoughtful and insightful comments.
• Engaging with other creators’ posts can help expand your reach and build relationships.
• Using carousels and images in posts can increase visibility and engagement.
• Avoid including links in posts to maximize reach, but consider using them in comments to drive traffic and build relationships.
• Engaging with comments can lead to valuable insights and growth opportunities.

Sound Bites

• “Pick the thing that is going to be the most effective for you to monetize.”
• “Case studies are a great way to show the value of working with you.”
• “Post with whatever frequency is comfortable for you, ideally no less than once a week.”
• “I always try and repay people who take the time to comment on my posts.”
• “You don’t need that many people who are showing up and enjoying your posts every time you post to create real momentum on LinkedIn.”
• “A post can take on a new life like six hours later, eight, eight, 10 hours later.”

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 07:29 Setting Up Your Profile for Success
• 24:00 Showcasing the Value of Your Work
• 28:13 Engaging with Comments and Frequency of Posting
• 30:34 Engaging with Other Creators’ Posts for Reach and Relationships
• 36:28 Using Carousels and Images to Increase Visibility
• 45:29 Maximizing Reach by Avoiding Links in Posts
• 48:34 Driving Engagement and Building Relationships through Comments

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Long-time friend-of-the-show Kevin Freidberg joined me on Ditching Hourly to share how he helps freelancers and consultants create effective websites by starting with email conversations.

Kevin's Links:

• https://marketyourselffirst.com/

AI-Generated Info:

Summary

Kevin Friedberg shares his approach to helping freelancers and consultants create effective websites by starting with email conversations. He suggests that instead of focusing on building a website, which can be overwhelming and time-consuming, freelancers should start by writing emails that address the problems their clients are facing. These emails can serve as the foundation for a content solar system and can eventually be repurposed for a website. Kevin also shares his strategy for growing an email list using LinkedIn, where he sends personalized messages to potential subscribers. Overall, his approach emphasizes the importance of one-on-one conversations and providing value to potential clients.

Takeaways

- Instead of starting with a website, freelancers and consultants can begin by writing emails that address the problems their clients are facing.
- These emails can serve as the foundation for a content solar system and can eventually be repurposed for a website.
- LinkedIn can be a valuable platform for growing an email list by sending personalized messages to potential subscribers.
- The key to success is providing value and engaging in one-on-one conversations with potential clients.

Sound Bites

• "A website, it's not a one-on-one conversation. An email is."
• "You'll have this conversation with someone, and they go off... they like brain dump about the problems that they solve for their clients. And it's gold. It's great."
• "I'm obsessed with the very idea of a one-on-one conversation. I just don't understand how else to do it."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Pain Points
• 03:05 Starting with Email Conversations
• 13:10 Using LinkedIn to Grow Your Email List
• 25:31 Transitioning from Emails to Websites
• 28:31 Conclusion and Next Steps

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Residential architect Jason Comer joined me on Ditching Hourly to brainstorm how he might migrate from commodity labor to productized leverage with his expertise in home design. Even if you're not an architect, I think you'll find the discussion useful.

Jason’s Website:

https://www.jasoncomerarchitect.com/

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

WP Engine founder Jason Cohen joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about why AI is different from other big tech advancements. We also discussed why niching down in a single ideal customer profile will bring you 10x more customers than you expect and how a regular writing practice makes the world a better place (and maybe even builds a legacy).

Jason’s Links: 

• A Smart Bear
• AI is Different
• Selling to Carol
• WP Engine
• Twitter

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Corey Quinn joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his excellent new book, “Anyone, Not Everyone.” In it, Corey shares insights on deep specialization, selecting a target vertical market, and using gifts like cookies to transform outbound marketing. 

Corey's Links:

• Anyone, Not Everyone by Corey Quinn
• Deep Specialization podcast by Corey Quinn
• Corey's Website

0:00 - Episode intro
0:17 - About Corey Quinn and his background 
1:30 - Corey's ideal client: agency founders doing $1-5M and looking to specialize
3:07 - Benefits of specializing in a vertical market vs. skillset
5:17 - How to define a vertical market
7:19 - Detecting traction in a potential vertical to specialize in
11:33 - Identifying a vertical market that's the right size (2,000-10,000 businesses)
15:25 - How specializing enables you to speak your target market's language 
17:35 - Creating a "point of view" to differentiate beyond just positioning
22:33 - Shifting from founder-led sales through deep specialization 
25:09 - Using gifting (like cookies) to transform outbound marketing
30:42 - Creating an ongoing gifting campaign, not just a one-time gift
32:21 - Reaching your target market in multiple channels beyond just gifting
37:46 - The multi-million dollar cookie budget that drove Scorpion's growth
41:17 - Adapting this approach for smaller shops through focus and consistency
45:01 - Advice for soloists: specialize, do thought leadership, focus on dream clients
48:54 - Consistently engaging with a target industry year after year to build trust
50:34 - Where to find Corey's book and other free resources

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Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!