Ditching Hourly

Dr. JJ Peterson, head of StoryBrand, joined me on Ditching Hourly to explain why he says, “You can't build a business on hourly billing.” JJ emphasizes the importance of value pricing and project-based billing for delivering results and customer satisfaction. He offers advice on storytelling and differentiation, finding your target audience, and building an email list for lead nurturing.

Talking Points

• Building value-add strategies is crucial to satisfying your customers
• Professional pricing is focused on value for each project, not solely billable hours
• Value pricing involves reverse engineering and scoping based on different budgets
• Productized services can help predict income and make services profitable over time
• Storytelling is a powerful tool for making sense of information and engaging customers
• Mailing lists and podcasts can increase awareness and trust
• Find platforms where your target audience hangs out and offer value before selling

Quotable Quotes

• 07:16 “Showing clients what kind of return they're going to get is a huge way to position yourself as value in the field.”
• 22:00 “Story takes a bunch of information that's out there and puts it all in a form that makes sense to somebody.”
• 29:00 “It's not about you, it's about what your skills and experience do to solve their problem.”
• 35:28 “Clarify your message first. Figure out what your messaging is gonna be before you do spend money on anything, creating anything else.”
• 37:33 “You wanna be on those stages. Then the second part about that is once you figure out where you wanna be, you wanna go into those places, and you wanna add a ton of value, don't wanna actually go in and sell.”
• 39:25 “Building your audience with free stuff and then charge quote unquote for the next level, which is to get your email address.”
• 47:07 “What you bring to businesses and the problems that you solve and the value that you bring is huge. So don't sell yourself short.”

J.J.'s Bio

Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message in order to grow their business. He teaches leaders how to leverage the power of story in marketing and messaging to get results through his Marketing Made Simple Podcast. J.J. holds a Ph.D. in Communication and has spent the last 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory. He has studied C.S. Lewis in Oxford, debated theology with filmmakers at the Sundance Film Festival, directed a documentary, served in marketing and PR for two multinational non-profit organizations, is currently an adjunct professor at the Owen School of Business at Vanderbilt University, and has spoken to thousands of people about creating a clear message. As the Head of StoryBrand, J.J. travels around the world facilitating StoryBrand workshops and keynotes, helping people grow their businesses.

J.J.'s Links

• https://storybrand.com/brandscript
• https://marketingmadesimple.com

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Tech trainer and coach Denis Čahuk joined me on Ditching Hourly to explain how he doubled his income by selling his value instead of selling his CV.

Denis’ links:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/deniscahuk/
• https://craftingtechteams.substack.com/
• https://www.youtube.com/@technologistpodcast

Additional notes from https://www.podcastshownotes.ai/

Key Points

• Productized services are key in creating an offer for clients rather than just presenting a list of skills.
• The process of discovering an offer's outcome and connecting it with the needs of the client is crucial for productized services.
• Embracing the value-based pricing approach helps clients see the benefits of paying for expertise rather than just services.
• Self-publishing on Gum Road can attract tech leads, engineers, freelancers, and individuals in tech looking for a career.
• Focus on the things that bring value and decide what not to do on a project
• Overcoming self-inflicted limitations: Dennis holds tactical sessions to help teams break free from their own limitations and company culture.
• Finding what's valuable and doing nothing else: eliminating waste is more important than improving current processes.

Best Quotes

• 22:20 "That was super easy cuz by that point, I made like nine YouTube videos, which were about 30 hours of conversations."
• 23:28 "It does seem to highlight those aspects of coding that make things easier to change and cheaper to maintain into the actual workflow."
• 24:59 "Okay, this isn't about you, the developer. This is about your team and what your team might be going through."
• 36:02 "It's like, okay, "how can we get fulfillment?" How can we get that kick-ass "hell yeah!" feeling for developers without forcing them to go vegan and do yoga."
• 39:11 "And then rather than telling you, I also show you."
• 43:16 "Just talk to the customer. Find out what's valuable and then do nothing else."
• 49:32 "The overall message is "think bigger" and don't get hung up on wanting to grind on the disengagement of the employees."

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Our resident crypto expert and longtime friend of the show, Luke Willis, joined me on Ditching Hourly to explore the psychology and mechanics of inflation.

Links mentioned in the episode

Luke’s Websites:

• https://lukewillis.com/
• https://thekoinpress.com/

Milton Friedman Speaks: Money and Inflation

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_nGEj8wIP0

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

James Turner, partner at SNAP Copy, joined me on Ditching Hourly to explain the nuances and benefits of selling copywriting services by the credit, not by the hour or the word.

About James

James E. Turner is a marketing strategist and conversion copywriter. He’s a partner at SNAP Copy, offering conversion-optimized copy on demand using a unique, credit-based system. Through his personal consultancy, Turner Creative, he works with founders of indie B2B SMBs to better position their value, understand their audience, and optimize their messaging & marketing. The best way to get in touch with James is to sign up for his short, off-beat daily emails about creativity, productivity, business ownership, and giving yourself a break at One Creative Moment.

One Creative Moment - https://turnercreative.ck.page/one-creative-moment-signup

Turner Creative - https://turnercreative.ca

SNAP Copy - https://snapcopy.co

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnercreative/

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Nick Loper of Side Hustle Nation joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about how he grew his mailing list and podcast audiences to 100k+ each and how he got started making money without offering high-ticket services. 

• Side Hustle Nation 
• The Side Hustle Show
• Custom Playlist 
• http://hustle.show
• https://twitter.com/nloper
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickloper/

(Additional show notes generated by Podium.page)

Episode Keywords:
Podcast Sponsorships, Monetizing Content, Content-First Businesses, Nick Loper, Side Hustle Show, Thought Leadership, Listener Pyramid, Email List, Mailing List, Multiple Income Streams, Online Content Empire, Freelancing, Consulting, Customized Playlist, Podcast Audience, Podcast Ad Sales, Sponsored Links, Evergreen Content, Facebook Groups, Keyword-Rich Content

Episode Summary:
In this episode, I explore podcast sponsorships and monetizing content-first businesses with guest Nick Loper, host of the Side Hustle Show. We discuss the importance of differentiating oneself from competitors and how publishing thought leadership can attract better clients. We delve into the challenges and potential benefits of monetizing a podcast through sponsorships and the significance of a captivating title. I also share my experiences in finding sponsors and growing my podcast audience. We also discuss the concept of climbing the listener pyramid, the importance of creating compelling content to attract and retain an audience, and the value of building an email list. I share my experience on the importance of mailing lists, the frequency of sending out newsletters and incorporating sponsored links as an additional revenue stream. We examine the numerous small income streams that can be generated through content-first businesses and strategies for building multiple income streams. Finally, we explore the benefits of a curated, customized playlist for podcast listeners and how it can help grow freelancing, consulting, and productized service businesses. By answering a few short questions, listeners can receive a selection of relevant episodes tailored to their interests and needs, ensuring they get the most out of their listening experience.

Chapters:

(0:00:00) - Monetizing a Podcast and Mailing List
(0:10:05) - The Listener Pyramid
(0:16:21) - Building an Online Content Empire
(0:22:38) - Strategies for Building Multiple Income Streams
(0:34:40) - Growing Freelancing and Consulting Businesses

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Canyon Trail founder Floyd May joined me on Ditching Hourly to describe his “shares” pricing model for software development.

Floyd’s Links:

• https://canyon-trail.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/floyd-may/

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Longtime software developer Tim Burris joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about his transition from annual salary to hourly billing to fixed pricing and the positive effects the transition had on his day-to-day.

Pretty good AI summary:

In this episode, I had a fascinating conversation with Tim Burriss about his journey from being a software developer to running a product development department and eventually switching to custom software development with a focus on fixed pricing and value pricing.

We discussed his unique approach to finding clients, particularly through Upwork, and how focusing on delivering outcomes rather than tech jargon has resulted in successful projects and satisfied clients.

We also explored the transition from working part-time to going solo as a developer, using platforms like Upwork to find the right clients and maintain a steady income. Tim shared his experience with coaching retainers and mentoring junior developers as alternative sources of income during this transition.

Throughout the conversation, we touched on the importance of trust in client relationships, the advantages of working on a fixed-price basis, and the art of determining the value of a project. We also discussed the importance of managing client expectations and scope while working on fixed-price projects and how focusing on delivering outcomes can minimize the impact of scope creep.

Overall, this episode provides valuable insights and practical advice for anyone looking to move away from hourly billing and embrace a more outcome-focused approach to their work. So if you're ready to ditch hourly and build trust-based working relationships with your clients, this episode is a must-listen!

Chapters:

(0:00:00) - Moving Away From Hourly Billing
(0:13:27) - Going Solo With Freelance Development
(0:18:29) - Outcome-Based Projects
(0:25:18) - Trust-Based Working Relationships
(0:33:39) - Software Development Pricing
(0:40:51) - Managing Risk on Projects

Tim's bio:

Tim has been developing software since the late 90's. After a decade of Department of Defense Research & Development followed by a decade split between non-profit and manufacturing, he set out on his own to provide custom software at a 100% guaranteed fixed price.

While his target audience ranges from those who need an Excel monolith replaced with a custom web solution to pulling information from physical sensors for a total shop floor overview, his specialty is simply helping people without all the tech jargon.

Tim's links:

• https://chalklogic.com/
• https://www.youtube.com/@TimBurris
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-burris

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Steve Folland, creator of the Being Freelance podcast and Doing it for the Kids podcast, joined me on Ditching Hourly to chat about his journey into freelancing, organic business growth, and tips for getting into the business mindset.

Chapters:
(0:00:00) - The Freelance Journey of Steve Folland
(0:05:00) - Organic Growth of a Freelance Business
(0:15:52) - Freelancing for Beginners
(0:20:26) - Getting Into the Business Mindset

Steve's Links:

• https://www.beingfreelance.com/
• https://twitter.com/beingfreelance
• https://www.instagram.com/beingfreelance/
• https://www.youtube.com/stevefolland
• https://www.doingitforthekids.net/

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Angular expert Alain Chautard joined me on Ditching Hourly to share the novel ways he escaped the trap of trading time for money by packaging and pricing his platform expertise.

Alain's Bio

Alain is a Google Developer Expert in Web Technologies, Angular, and Google Maps. His daily mission is to help development teams adopt Angular and build at scale with the framework. He has taught front-end development on all six continents. A world traveler and photographer, Alain is also an international conference speaker, and a published author of several video courses.

Alain's Links

• Website: https://www.angulartraining.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/achautard/
• Daily Newsletter: https://www.angulartraining.com/daily-newsletter/
• Certification program: https://www.angulartraining.com/angular-certification.html

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!

Ex-Googler Kartick Vaddadi joined me on Ditching Hourly to brainstorm which of his offerings might be most compelling and to find ways to increase the number of leads flowing into his business.

Kartick’s Links

• Website: https://kartick.org
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ConsultingCTO

----

Before you go!

The next time someone asks you for your hourly rate, I want you to stop what you're doing and head on over to valuepricingbootcamp.com to sign up for my free value pricing email course.

Hope to see you there!