In this episode, host Dr. Gita Pensa sits down to continue her conversation with elite defense trial attorney, John E. Hall, Jr. His recent book, "Reviving Fairness: Defending Healthcare Heroes", outlines the shifts in the modern world of American medical liability litigation, and offers a timely call to confront the malpractice climate harming clinicians and threatening access to care.

We talk about themes in his book, and touch on many other facets of litigation, including third party litigation funding (private equity investing in and funding plaintiff's attorney cases) and why even busy doctors should show up for jury duty with the greater good in mind. 

John E. Hall, Jr. is a senior partner at Hall Booth Smith and a nationally recognized trial lawyer focused on defending healthcare professionals and medical institutions in high-exposure litigation. He is one of the founders of American Legal Connections, a national network advancing strategy and reform in complex medical defense and other high-stakes cases. John is known for his disciplined trial preparation and proactive approach to preventing aberration verdicts. He's also an author of other non-fiction and fiction books, a songwriter, and a leading voice calling for the reform of predatory malpractice litigation practices in the US. 

_____________________

Check out Dr. Pensa's recent appearance on The Pitt Podcast -- the HBO Max companion podcast to the Emmy-winning hit show, The Pitt!

Gita Pensa was thrilled to be a consultant for the hit drama The Pitt for the 2nd and (upcoming) 3rd seasons, bringing her expertise in malpractice litigation stress to help the show's writers understand what clinicians carry behind the scenes. She speaks about it more in Episode 10 of the HBO Max companion podcast.

Watch here now:

https://youtu.be/phwbzDMCuUc?si=DUymrA6dE9xYYVx_&t=2070

_______________________

Take the LEAP! Be litigation-ready.

Learn from Dr. Pensa's attorney-vetted Litigation Education and Performance for Clinicians course. Up to 16 hours of AMA Category 1 CME/CNE credits available in this self-paced video course that will teach you about the skills and mindset required to face medical litigation with integrity and know how. Learn many of the techniques Dr. Pensa uses with her own 1:1 coaching clients. 

START HERE: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/LEAP/signup

_______________________

Attorneys, Risk, Claims, and Medical Leadership: Learn about "Defense LEAP" and partnering with Dr. Pensa to ensure your medical defendants are supported and prepared from the very beginning. Contact Dr. Pensa through her website to learn more: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/contact

What happens when a physician defendant doesn’t just “get through” litigation — but prepares for it?

In Part 2 of The Educated Defendant, host Dr. Gita Pensa sits down with the veteran trial attorney who defended Dr. Nirav Patel. (If you haven't listened to part 1, start there!)

John E. Hall, Jr. helps us unpack what made this case different. What does an experienced defense lawyer actually want from a physician witness? What separates a reactive, defensive defendant from one who is credible, collaborative, and compelling in front of a jury?

We talk about preparation, presence, strategy, and the often-unspoken dynamic between lawyer and doctor in high-stakes malpractice trials.

John E. Hall, Jr. is a senior partner at Hall Booth Smith and a nationally recognized trial lawyer focused on defending healthcare professionals and medical institutions in high-exposure litigation. He is the author of Reviving Fairness: Defending Healthcare Heroes and one of the  founders of American Legal Connections, a national network advancing strategy and reform in complex medical defense and other high-stakes cases. John is known for his disciplined trial preparation and proactive approach to preventing aberration verdicts.

Next month, John Hall returns to discuss his newest book, Reviving Fairness: Defending Healthcare Heroes. 

_______________________

_____________________

Check out Dr. Pensa's recent appearance on The Pitt Podcast -- the HBO Max companion podcast to the Emmy-winning hit show, The Pitt!

Gita Pensa was thrilled to be a consultant for the hit drama The Pitt for the 2nd and (upcoming) 3rd seasons, bringing her expertise in malpractice litigation stress to help the show's writers understand what clinicians carry behind the scenes. She speaks about it more in Episode 10 of the HBO Max companion podcast.

Watch here now:

https://youtu.be/phwbzDMCuUc?si=DUymrA6dE9xYYVx_&t=2070

_______________________

Take the LEAP! Be litigation-ready.

Learn from Dr. Pensa's attorney-vetted Litigation Education and Performance for Clinicians course. Up to 16 hours of AMA Category 1 CME/CNE credits available in this self-paced video course that will teach you about the skills and mindset required to face medical litigation with integrity and know how. Learn many of the techniques Dr. Pensa uses with her own 1:1 coaching clients. 

START HERE: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/LEAP/signup

_______________________

Attorneys, Risk, Claims, and Medical Leadership: Learn about "Defense LEAP" and partnering with Dr. Pensa to ensure your medical defendants are supported and prepared from the very beginning. Contact Dr. Pensa through her website to learn more: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/contact

THIS EPISODE is a must-listen for anyone facing, or fearing, litigation. (And their attorneys.)

Host Dr. Pensa interviews radiologist Dr. Nirav Patel about his extraordinary journey through litigation...and what he did to become his legal team's secret weapon. 

You can do it, too. 

_____________________

Check out Dr. Pensa's recent appearance on The Pitt Podcast -- the HBO Max companion podcast to the Emmy-winning hit show, The Pitt!

Gita Pensa was thrilled to be a consultant for the hit drama The Pitt for the 2nd and (upcoming) 3rd seasons, bringing her expertise in malpractice litigation stress to help the show's writers understand what clinicians carry behind the scenes. She speaks about it more in Episode 10 of the HBO Max companion podcast.

Watch here now:

https://youtu.be/phwbzDMCuUc?si=DUymrA6dE9xYYVx_&t=2070

_______________________

Take the LEAP! Be litigation-ready.

Learn from Dr. Pensa's attorney-vetted Litigation Education and Performance for Clinicians course. Up to 16 hours of AMA Category 1 CME/CNE credits available in this self-paced video course that will teach you about the skills and mindset required to face medical litigation with integrity and know how. Learn many of the techniques Dr. Pensa uses with her own 1:1 coaching clients. 

START HERE: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/LEAP/signup

_______________________

Attorneys, Risk, Claims, and Medical Leadership: Learn about "Defense LEAP" and partnering with Dr. Pensa to ensure your medical defendants are supported and prepared from the very beginning. Contact Dr. Pensa through her website to learn more: https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/contact

This month we take a high level view of the landscape of 'tort reform' in the US (and what does that even mean?)

Physician-lawyer Dr. Shilpa Mathew, MD JD, walks us through some basics of tort law and advocacy efforts in the US, how you can get involved, and why it matters. (Note: Dr. Mathew's views expressed in this podcast are strictly her own, and not representative of her employer or ACOG.)

Shilpa Mathew, MD, JD, is a Northern California physician double board-certified in Obstetrics & Gynecology and Lifestyle Medicine. She is a former practicing attorney who spent the latter half of her legal career focused on health insurance and regulatory compliance and brings a unique perspective to the intersection of law, medicine, and policy. She has long been active in health advocacy and policy efforts—ranging from things such as pro bono legal work to protect basic health rights of foreign detainees in US prisons to serving as a medical student delegate to the California and American Medical Associations. She has a particular passion for issues related to medical malpractice and focused her residency research project on malpractice knowledge, attitudes and perceptions of OB/GYN residents nationwide. Currently, she serves as the Co-Chair of the Legislative Committee for the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in California, where together with a team, she helps shape policy to advance women’s health.

BONUS: In the introduction, host Dr. Gita Pensa talks about her own litigation advocacy wish list - there are some 'standard' wishes on there, and some you may not have considered before.

Here is Dr. Pensa's informal Holiday Wish List for malpractice litigation reform. 

It's a wish list. But...the only way to move towards any of these steps is through involvement and advocacy. 

Happy Holidays to all, and we'll see you in 2026.

REMEMBER: Use code LEAP100 until December 1st, 2025, to get 100$ off of the LEAP for Clinicians course! Eligible for 16 Category 1 CME/CNE Credits. Learn the essential mindset and skillset you need as a clinician in litigation, all in one place. 

This month: finger pointing among health care professionals after an adverse event, or during litigation.

We've all seen it: the tertiary care center dumping on the community hospital in their notes. The specialist criticizes the primary care doctor or the ER's management. The doctor blames the nurse. The nurse charts defensively, ending with "MD Aware." The attending blames the resident. The resident blames the attending! All in a chart war, preserved for perpetuity. 

Or even more sinister: a surgeon, after an adverse surgical event, tells the family the awful news -- and then tries to implicate someone else: the anesthesiologist, the CRNA, the radiologist who read the study...

You know we could go on. We've all seen it. 

And then, once litigation starts -- now we're co-defendants. How does this 'blame game' play for a jury? 

Is the chart the place for these disagreements? (Spoiler alert: NO.) Can finger pointing in charting actually backfire and get you pulled INTO a case? (Spoiler alert: YES.)

Our guest today is Heather Hansen, trial consultant and communications expert. For over 20 years, she defended providers and hospitals in medical malpractice cases. She created a curriculum for medical residents, teaching them communication and advocacy tools. She has helped leaders from Harvard Business School, Google, LinkedIn, LVMH, the American Medical Association, and Hospital Corporations of America advocate for change, resources, opportunities, and attention. 

Welcome to Season 3 of Doctors and Litigation: The L Word!

We start off with an update on the LEAP Course (Litigation Education and Performance) -- sign up from now through December 1, 2025 with coupon code LEAP100 and get $100 off. Now with up to 16 hours of Category 1 AMA CME Credits!

https://www.doctorsandlitigation.com/LEAP/signup

Our first conversation in Season 3 is with Dr. Anthony Orsini of The Orsini Way.

Communication with patients or families after unexpected medical events is crucial, but most of us have no formal training in how to do it well. Compassionate and skilled conversations can pave the way for understanding and closure for families. However, when handled poorly or defensively, these conversations can create resentment, distrust, and anger, which can also make litigation more likely. 

What do patients and families want from us in these moments? What do we do with our body language? What happens if we cry? Can we show compassion by touch, on the hand or the shoulder? Why is this so difficult? Have we lost our humanity in the name of professionalism?

Dr. Orsini has spent the last 25 years developing proven communication techniques that help doctors build rapport and quickly form trusting relationships with their patients. Come along as we discuss evidence based strategies to handling these conversations better. 

In this episode (the last of Season Two), Dr. Pensa  sits down to speak with a plaintiff's attorney.

However, her guest, Chad Englehardt, is not your average plaintiff's attorney. Chad is a highly lauded attorney, law professor, and advocate of Rick Boothman's Michigan Model (for more on that, listen to Episode 13 of Season Two.) 

We talk extensively about CRP (Communication - Resolution) programs, patient safety, and the dysfunction of our current legal system, which re-traumatizes patients and clinicians alike. If the first rule of medicine is 'First, do no harm,' then he feels the second rule in medicine, and the first in law, should be: "Do no further harm."

We also talk a bit about third party investors and litigation funding (which we have not yet covered in the podcast, but is of great importance...we'll revisit it!)

During the course of our conversation, Mr. Englehardt mentions two books:

You can reach Chad via email at [email protected]. 

We'll be back in a few months with the start of Season Three!

Following up after episode 15, "What to Know When the Government Comes Knocking," Dr. Pensa interviews a physician who went up against the US Department of Justice -- and won.

Dr. Muhamad Aly Rifai is a practicing psychiatrist, boarded in psychiatry and internal medicine, who was indicted on charges of healthcare fraud by the US government in 2022, following seven years of investigation. Dr. Rifai was confident he was innocent, and confident in his billing practices -- and despite intimidation by the government, threats of imprisonment for up to 40 years, and very long odds, he refused to plead guilty to a lesser charge or settle. He won against the US Government after a 6-day trial, and is here to share what he learned in his ordeal.

This Department of Justice press release describes the accusations against Dr. Rifai. (I feel they should update the headline!)

After demonstrating that the case was baseless and should never have been brought to trial in the first place, along with his resounding victory in court, Dr. Rifai filed a motion for sanctions and to recoup his substantial legal fees.  In the wake of that motion, one prosecuting attorney was fired, and two others have 'retired.' The motion, as of May 2025, is still in limbo.

Dr. Rifai shares his story in an effort to educate all of us, and to empower physicians going through similar circumstances. 

The Department of Justice is waging a war on healthcare fraud, and sometimes even well-meaning doctors can get swept up in it. Today's interview with healthcare law attorney Anthony Box will shed some light on this high stakes topic. 

Tony Box has extensive experience not only in defending doctors against government allegations -- but he also previously investigated and prosecuted these cases as a federal prosecutor and FBI agent. He knows both sides of this coin very well. 

Host Dr. Gita Pensa and Attorney Box break down the basics of what every doctor needs to know about governmental investigations and litigation. 

When an insurance company is accused of acting in bad faith, it's alleged that they failed to act fairly and reasonably in handling a claim -- often related to not agreeing to a reasonable settlement when the financial risk to the insured at trial was known to be substantial. In this episode, host Dr. Gita Pensa talks with Florida attorney Dale Swope about his decades of experience with bad faith lawsuits.  

Mr. Swope emphasizes that some liability insurers are more reliable and fair-minded than others, so it’s important to consider an insurer’s reputation. Just as an adverse medical event doesn’t always mean malpractice, an unfavorable legal outcome doesn’t automatically mean the insurer acted in bad faith. However, insurers do have obligations to their policyholders—and if those obligations aren’t met and there’s a negative legal outcome, it can lay the groundwork for a bad faith lawsuit. 

Mr. Swope also makes starkly clear the importance of knowing who you're really working for when you're working for a mega-group. (You'll want to check the name on your W-2 immediately.)

Dale Swope is managing partner of Swope, Rodante P.A. which is the development of the solo firm practice he founded six months out of law school, in 1979. In his more than thirty years of service as a Board-Certified Civil Trial Specialist, and previously a Board-Certified Business Litigation Specialist, Mr. Swope has won many awards, and holds a reputation as one of the preeminent attorneys practicing in Florida in the area of insurance bad faith.