Guy Sengstock is the founder and creator of the Circling method and Circling Institute — a relational practice that has been transforming how individuals, groups, and corporations relate to each other for over two decades. An artist, philosopher, bodyworker, poet, and visionary, Guy holds a Bachelor in Fine Arts from the San Francisco Art Institute and is the co-founder of the Arte Center for Excellence and the Bay Area Men's Circle.

In this episode, we explore how the practice of circling emerged, what makes it genuinely distinct from other relational and therapeutic modalities, and why Guy compares the circling experience to psychedelics in its capacity to shift perception and deepen presence.

We get into what listening really is — and why most of us have never truly experienced it — the barriers that keep us locked in surface-level conversation, how to cut through small talk and into something real, and the three core agreements that make circling work.

We also explore conflict — why we need it, how to transform it rather than avoid it, how to diffuse judgment, and what it means to genuinely embrace the discomfort of otherness. Guy also speaks about Dia-logos and his own journey of transforming childhood trauma through relational practice.

A rich and practically grounded conversation for anyone hungry for deeper human connection and more authentic relationships.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Circling Institute
•  Circle Anywhere
•  What is Circling?

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
 1:51 - Artem shares how circling impacted him
 4:45 - How to cut through small talk
 8:01 - How the practice of circling emerged
 17:20 - What is circling?
 19:44 - Comparing circling to psychedelics
 23:59 - The barriers to deeper more meaningful conversations
 31:55 - Artem speaks on his desire for depth in life and relationships
 38:58 - What listening really is
 45:37 - Is circling for everyone? Contraindications
 49:30 - The three agreements of circling
 52:48 - Conflict — why we need it and how to transform it
 1:02:32 - Understanding and diffusing judgment
 1:16:09 - Embracing the discomfort of otherness
 1:27:58 - What is Dia-logos?
 1:34:34 - Circling Institute's offerings and vision
 1:41:00 - Guy speaks about transforming his childhood trauma
 1:54:22 - Where to connect with Guy

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Steve McIntosh is a political philosopher, lawyer, entrepreneur, and leading voice in the integral space. He is the author of five books including "Evolution's Purpose," "The Presence of the Infinite," and "Developmental Politics" — a groundbreaking framework for how America can grow beyond its current political crisis through cultural evolution and values integration. He is also president and co-founder of the Institute for Cultural Evolution, a think tank focused on the cultural and developmental roots of America's political challenges.

In this conversation, we explore how culture evolves through three major worldviews currently clashing in American politics, why values integration offers a more powerful path through political conflict than left vs right debate, and how the interaction of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis is quietly driving cultural progress even when it doesn't feel like it.

We also get into the four major political positions that go beyond left and right, why Steve is genuinely optimistic about cultural synthesis, how developmental thinking reframes the culture war, and why evolution itself is one of the most profound spiritual teachings available to us in this moment.

A wide-ranging and genuinely hopeful conversation about politics, culture, and consciousness — for anyone tired of the left-right framework and looking for something deeper.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Steve's personal site
•  Institute for Cultural Evolution
•  Developmental Politics — in-depth book summary
•  Tao of Physics — Fritjof Capra
•  Aquarian Conspiracy — Marilyn Ferguson
•  The Cultural Creatives — Paul H. Ray
•  Spiral Dynamics — Don Beck and Christopher Cowan
•  A Secular Age — Charles Taylor
•  Clare Graves
•  Abraham Maslow
•  Ken Wilber
•  Carter Phipps

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Intro
3:18 - How Steve got into developmental thinking and applied it to politics
21:17 - How culture evolves — the three major worldviews clashing in American politics
35:44 - The interaction of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in culture
42:17 - The four major political positions beyond left and right
48:32 - Resolving political conflict through values integration
52:28 - Why Steve is optimistic about cultural synthesis
55:13 - Why Donald Trump was elected
58:05 - Steve applies the values integration process to a live political issue
1:07:55 - Evolution as a spiritual teaching
1:16:05 - The importance of transcendence
1:28:37 - What's next for Steve McIntosh?

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Daniel Görtz is a political philosopher, sociologist, and one of the leading voices in metamodern thought. Holding a PhD in sociology from Lund University in Sweden, Daniel is one half of the Hanzi Freinacht duo — the alias under which he has released "The Listening Society" and "The Nordic Ideology," two groundbreaking books unpacking metamodern philosophy and its implications for politics, spirituality, and human development.

In this conversation, we explore what metamodernism actually is and how it emerged from the pitfalls of postmodernism, why developmental thinking matters for navigating the meaning crisis and the meta-crisis, and what it means to think in complexity rather than in simple linear frameworks.

We also get into the differences between integralism and metamodernism, how to understand developmental imbalances through the Hanzi model, the main problems with creating spiritual communities, and what pathways towards a genuinely metamodern spirituality might look like.

A wide-ranging and intellectually rich conversation for anyone trying to make sense of where we are — and where we might be going.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• The Listening Society — book + in-depth summary
•  Daniel's site — Metamoderna
•  Metamodernity book
•  Kumare Documentary on fake gurus
•  Erich Fromm
•  Michel Foucault
•  David Foster Wallace
•  Jason Ananda Josephson Storm
•  Steven Pinker
•  Vaclav Smil
•  Mooji
•  Eckhart Tolle

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Intro
0:41 - How Daniel got into sociology and developmental thinking
10:04 - Integralism vs metamodernism
14:38 - Who is Hanzi Freinacht? The crossroads of fact and fiction
16:45 - The pitfalls of postmodernism and the emergence of metamodernism
26:00 - But what is metamodernism?
31:58 - The importance of developmental thinking
41:58 - Understanding developmental imbalances — the Hanzi model
1:06:00 - Understanding and developing complexity thinking
1:22:30 - The importance of having your depth honored
1:29:20 - Integrating higher complexity thinking
1:33:30 - The main problems with creating spiritual communities
1:43:33 - Pathways towards a metamodern spirituality
2:09:08 - What's next for Daniel Görtz and Hanzi Freinacht?

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Douglas Tataryn is a clinical psychologist, long-time meditator, and founder of the Bio-Emotive Framework — a powerful approach to understanding and processing emotions that integrates psychology, somatic healing, and contemplative practice. He received his PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Arizona and has spent decades leading emotional clearing workshops, integral theory seminars, and sports psychology programs across North America.

In this conversation, we explore what cultural alexithymia is and why most of us have lost touch with our emotions, the difference between emotions and feelings, how emotional repression lives in the body, and the surprising role that crying plays in emotional healing.

We also get into what comes first — thoughts or feelings, how processing emotions impacts meditation practice, the five stages of crying, whether tight and tense muscles block emotional access, how psychedelics and meditation can support emotional healing, and whether the relational practice of circling can help with processing emotions.

Douglas even leads Artem through a live emotional processing session — one of the most raw and honest moments in the show's history.

A profound and practical conversation for anyone doing the inner work of emotional healing and somatic therapy

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

• Doug's website
•  The Bio-Emotive Framework Course
•  Cultural Alexithymia — Doug's talk transcript
•  Doug's paper on the body's role in emotional repression
•  Doug's e-book on healthy crying
•  Online Circling — Circle Anywhere
•  What is Circling?

🕰️ TIMESTAMPS 🕰️

0:00 - Intro
0:49 - What is the Bio-Emotive Framework and how Douglas developed it
5:40 - What is cultural alexithymia?
11:58 - What are emotions?
15:51 - What is the difference between emotions and feelings?
19:01 - How processing emotions impacts meditation
20:50 - How emotions are related to interpersonal status
22:08 - What comes first — thoughts or feelings?
24:02 - What are feeling beliefs?
27:04 - The process of emotional repression and the body's role in it
37:39 - The role crying plays in emotional healing
43:03 - The five stages of crying
47:50 - Douglas talks about his work with meditation master Culadasa
49:21 - Is it possible to be emotionally healthy and never cry?
54:03 - Do tight and tense muscles interfere with accessing emotions?
57:05 - How yelling and screaming can help release emotions
1:02:58 - Douglas leads Artem through a live emotional processing session
1:22:17 - How psychedelics and meditation can help with emotional healing
1:27:42 - Can the relational practice of circling help with processing emotions?
1:30:39 - Healthy ego development and psychedelic-assisted emotional processing
1:36:22 - Doug speaks about his emotional processing course
1:37:52 - Outro

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Angelo DiLullo is an anesthesiologist, meditation teacher, and author of "Awake: It's Your Turn" — a comprehensive yet accessible guide to facilitating awakening. Angelo experienced awakening at 24 but didn't begin teaching until years later, when he noticed that during ordinary conversations, people would spontaneously experience profound shifts in their perception of reality.

In this conversation, we explore what awakening actually is and how to explain it to the broadest possible audience, the difference between awakening and liberation, whether suffering ends after awakening, and what spiritual materialism is — and whether it's inevitable on the spiritual path.

We also get into how we create our own suffering, the reflective nature of thoughts, whether meditation is necessary for awakening, how self-inquiry differs from meditation, the role of beliefs in the awakening process, whether psychedelics and relational practices like circling can facilitate awakening, and the paradoxical nature of reality.

A grounded, clear, and deeply honest conversation about spiritual awakening — for anyone ready to stop overcomplicating the path.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES 🔗

Awake: It's Your Turn
Angelo's website
Angelo's YouTube channel
Angelo's meditation app — Simply Awake
The Work Documentary
Adyashanti
Online Circling — Circle Anywhere

⏱ TIMESTAMPS ⏱

0:00 - Intro
2:12 - Angelo's spontaneous free-flowing approach to awakening
5:21 - Explaining awakening to the broadest audience
11:45 - What is the difference between awakening and liberation?
20:45 - Does suffering remain after awakening?
28:08 - Artem's experience with 5-MeO-DMT
30:56 - Are there people who are awakened but don't know it?
35:37 - How we create our own suffering
39:52 - What is a thought? The reflective nature of thoughts
52:30 - What is spiritual materialism and is it inevitable?
1:02:48 - Is meditation necessary for awakening?
1:07:37 - How is self-inquiry different from meditation?
1:13:55 - The role of beliefs in the awakening process
1:19:43 - Can the relational practice of circling facilitate awakening?
1:25:19 - Can psychedelics contribute to awakening?
1:30:06 - Angelo unpacks "There is no way that things are"
1:38:11 - Why do so many people doubt the possibility of awakening?
1:45:49 - The paradoxical nature of reality
1:50:43 - What's next for Angelo?
1:52:38 - Outro

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Susanne Cook-Greuter is an internationally recognized expert in adult development and self-actualization, holding a doctorate in human development and psychology from Harvard. Her groundbreaking Ego Development Theory maps the relationship between self-story and meaning-making across the full spectrum of human development — from conventional stages of consciousness through to the most advanced levels of vertical development. She currently serves as strategic advisor and research director of the Vertical Development Academy.

In this conversation we explore why growth is overrated and what that means for how we approach our inner work, the critical shift in human development that most developmental models miss, how the stages of consciousness relate to psychedelic experiences and spiritual awakening, and why the idea of being self-made is a delusion.

We also get into the role identity plays in human development, how our sense of objectivity changes as we develop, the most important polarities all humans have to navigate, and why honoring all stages — not just the highest ones — is essential for genuine transformation.

A profound conversation for anyone navigating the edges of human development and vertical growth.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES🔗

• Ego Development: A Full-Spectrum Theory Of Vertical Growth And Meaning Making
•  An Introduction to Developmental Stage Theories
•  Vertical Development Academy

⏱ TIMESTAMPS ⏱

0:00 - Intro
0:53 - How Susanne got into developmental psychology
4:29 - How the sentence completion test helps map a person's development
6:27 - The limits of language in knowing and describing reality
12:15 - How development plays a role in the variability of psychedelic experiences
13:28 - What was missing from Jane Loevinger's work
16:48 - The role identity plays in human development
20:56 - How the sense of objectivity changes as a person develops
24:25 - What is the center of gravity in ego development theory?
27:15 - The role environment plays in human development
28:53 - Psychedelics, spirituality, and integrated development
42:32 - The most important polarities all humans have to manage

44:20 - How Ego Development Theory differs from other developmental stage theories
44:42 - Why growth is overrated
51:52 - The conquest and exploitation of nature
56:52 - The critical shift in human development
1:03:31 - Why the idea of being self-made is a delusion
1:06:59 - Vertical development and what it actually means
1:11:25 - Susanne's two new books in progress
1:15:51 - The importance of honoring all stages and all beings
1:17:51 - New trends in human development
1:28:05 - Does Susanne's brain automatically map people into stages?
1:30:10 - Thinkers and teachers who influenced Susanne's worldview
1:32:35 - Susanne and Artem connect on their shared passion for language

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Dr. Chris Niebauer is a cognitive neuropsychologist, professor of consciousness at Slippery Rock University, and author of "No Self No Problem" — a book exploring how modern neuropsychology is catching up to what Buddhism has known for centuries about ego dissolution, no self, and the nature of awakening.

In this conversation we explore how the left brain creates the ego and what that means for ego dissolution, what neuroscience actually tells us about no self and free will, the profound differences between left and right brain functioning, and how psychedelics affect the brain — and why they don't always lead to lasting transformation.

We also get into the paradox of progress, how the right brain is responsible for music, meaning and metaphor, simple practices for rebalancing the brain, and what the meaning crisis looks like through a neuropsychological lens.

A fascinating bridge between cutting-edge neuroscience and the world's contemplative traditions — for anyone trying to understand the mind that is doing the understanding.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES🔗

• Chris's personal site
•  Chris on YouTube
•  No Self No Problem
•  No Self No Problem Companion Workbook
•  What is the ego? Seeing through the illusion
•  How left brain dominance is causing the emerging meaning crisis
•  The Master and His Emissary — Iain McGilchrist
•  Alan Watts Teachings
•  Ram Dass Teachings
•  The Effect of Earthing on Human Physiology

⏱ TIMESTAMPS⏱

0:00 - Intro
 0:45 - Why Chris got into neuroscience
 2:20 - Chris talks about his neurotic past
 3:23 - How Alan Watts impacted Chris
 5:15 - Comparing "No Self No Problem" and "The Master and His Emissary"
 6:55 - How neuropsychology is catching up to Buddhism
 11:21 - Does no self mean we have no free will?
 15:10 - What is the ego?
 25:40 - The main differences between right and left brain functioning
 33:26 - How the right brain is responsible for music, meaning, and metaphor
 40:55 - What is the meaning of life?
 48:35 - Another way to understand right and left brain differences
 49:48 - The paradox of progress
 51:39 - The best way to understand what the ego is
 52:29 - Chris's take on psychedelics
 56:58 - How psychedelics affect the brain
 1:06:38 - Why psychedelics don't always lead to lasting transformation
 1:09:35 - Simple practices for rebalancing the brain
 1:18:58 - Preorder the "No Self No Problem" Companion Workbook
 1:22:13 - How Ram Dass impacted Chris
 1:24:07 - Chris's experience with Deepak Chopra
 1:28:07 - What Chris is working on next
 1:31:40 - Where you can connect with Chris

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional

Dr. Daniel Ingram is one of the most prominent figures in the pragmatic dharma movement and author of "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" — a highly influential and controversial book in modern Buddhist meditation. A master meditator and emergency physician, Daniel is unusual among contemplative teachers in being radically transparent about his attainments, openly referring to himself as an Arahant in the Theravada tradition.

In this conversation, we explore what it actually means to awaken, how to map profound psychedelic experiences like 5-MeO-DMT through a contemplative lens, the thin line between psychosis and awakening, why spiritual experiences have no place in mainstream medicine, and what it would take to change that.

We also get into Daniel's MMA approach to spirituality — drawing from multiple traditions rather than staying loyal to any single lineage — how we get lost in language when describing inner experience, the importance of shadow work on the spiritual path, and whether awakening is something everyone should pursue.

A wide-ranging, rigorous, and deeply honest conversation for the committed contemplative practitioner.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES🔗

• Daniel's personal site
•  Daniel on Twitter/X
•  Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha
•  How Daniel's book helped me make sense of my most profound spiritual experiences
•  Support Daniel's work — Emergence Benefactors
•  Emergent Phenomenology Research Consortium
•  Better Understanding Psychosis — Brian Spittles

⏱ TIMESTAMPS⏱

0:00 - Intro
 1:08 - What is an Arahant?
 2:18 - The pros and cons of being open about attainments
 8:28 - Why Joseph Goldstein is against sharing attainments
 11:47 - The heat Daniel took for his open approach
 13:50 - Artem's spiritual journey
 14:40 - Artem's experience with 5-MeO-DMT
 16:14 - How Daniel's book helped map profound psychedelic experiences
 19:18 - Daniel's fMRI brain scanner studies at Harvard
 21:06 - The thin line between psychosis and awakening
 22:00 - Why spiritual experiences don't fit mainstream medicine
 27:28 - Daniel's MMA approach to spirituality
 29:13 - How we get lost in language describing inner experience
 32:02 - The most disagreed-about term in meditation communities
 45:00 - Why psychedelics don't affect everyone the same way
 45:34 - What draws people deeply into spirituality and meditation
 48:45 - Creating a retreat center for measuring spiritual experiences scientifically
 52:16 - Should everyone just wake up?
 54:07 - Daniel guides us through a simple awakening exercise
 1:04:58 - Can awakening be seen as a spectrum?
 1:09:12 - What is insight?
 1:12:48 - The three characteristics across all spiritual traditions
 1:19:16 - The importance of shadow work on the spiritual path

*Subscribe to my YouTube channel to watch the video versions of the Elevating Consciousness Podcast 

*Subscribe to the Insighter Substack to get in-depth articles on the theory and practice of human transformation through a post-conventional