Latter-day Saints have a complicated relationship with the word patriarchy. We reverence it, including variations in some of our highest callings and ordinances, yet many members won’t touch it in a discussion of women’s rights or organizational equality. So how can we have meaningful conversations about it with other Church members? Amy McPhie Allebest says, “There are two ways to try to reach people’s hearts and minds to say, ‘I’m serious, this is a problem.’ One is through facts, and one is through feelings.” In Episode 208, Amy joins Cynthia and Susan to explore both in a discussion aimed at preparing listeners to have hard conversations in effective ways.